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Why Kids Don't Have To Mark the End of Your Career—They Might Just Be the Start! · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: I'm a working mom with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
• 0:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:44
  Elizabeth Willetts: No way.
• 0:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance.
• 0:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: We cover it all.
• 0:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED Talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cosy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:17
  Elizabeth Willetts: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries, ready to find your perfect job.
• 1:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:52
  Elizabeth Willetts: Now back to the show.
• 1:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like A Mom podcast.
• 1:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: Today I am interviewing Kat Gilbert, and Kat is somebody that I've known for a little while and she is such an inspiration.
• 2:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: She was a stay-at-home mum and then has had a complete career change and her career has taken off and is thriving after having children.
• 2:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I thought she would be a brilliant person to get on the podcast to learn a bit more about her experience of work and how she restarted and rebooted her career and has had that career change a lot I know a lot of our listeners are looking for and you know why she feels it's important to work and be a good role model for her children.
• 2:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: So thank you so much, kat, for joining me today.
• 2:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's a real pleasure to chat with you.
• 2:40
  Kat Gilbert: Thank you for having me.
• 2:41
  Kat Gilbert: I'm really looking forward to our conversation.
• 2:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: Hi Auntie, so talk me through your career pre-kids, what you were doing before children.
• 2:48
  Kat Gilbert: Okay.
• 2:48
  Kat Gilbert: So, education-wise, I ended up studying modern European languages at university and then continuing to do a master's in interpreting and translation.
• 2:58
  Kat Gilbert: However, when I came to start my career, I found myself working as a PA in a busy London office and found myself thriving and enjoying the role and working there, doing the commute from the home counties in the south and going into central London on a daily basis.
• 3:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's tiring, isn't it Even like without kids?
• 3:23
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's a tiring commute.
• 3:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: It was tiring, isn't it?
• 3:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: Even like without kids?
• 3:25
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's a tiring commute.
• 3:25
  Kat Gilbert: It was exhausting it really, really was but it was the time of my life when it it felt right, it felt like it could be achieved and it was manageable.
• 3:34
  Kat Gilbert: Although I have to say I do not, I do not miss the um, the season ticket payment going out of my bank account every year.
• 3:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think they've gone up now as well.
• 3:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, yeah, they have gone up.
• 3:45
  Kat Gilbert: I know I'm quite glad I'm no longer living in the home counties.
• 3:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, exactly so you were doing a PA role, you know, and it sounded like you were enjoying that role.
• 3:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: Was it using your languages?
• 3:56
  Kat Gilbert: It wasn't using my languages, um, for that role.
• 3:58
  Kat Gilbert: No, but yes, I was enjoying it and I felt like there was opportunity to grow.
• 4:06
  Kat Gilbert: I mean, I arrived in the office and it was a multinational company.
• 4:10
  Kat Gilbert: I was, for a time, the only PA.
• 4:12
  Kat Gilbert: I established the PA function for another part of the company and I got involved in loads and loads and loads of different projects and things going on and it was a time of a lot of growth.
• 4:23
  Kat Gilbert: But it was also that time it was contained.
• 4:27
  Kat Gilbert: It wasn't.
• 4:28
  Kat Gilbert: I wasn't fully passionate about being a PA.
• 4:31
  Kat Gilbert: I didn't grow up wanting to be a PA.
• 4:33
  Kat Gilbert: When I was a child it was something I fell into, found out I was quite good at, enjoyed and made a career out of it for a while.
• 4:41
  Kat Gilbert: In my head it was also a means to an end.
• 4:42
  Kat Gilbert: It was a oh, I'll do this and then this will be something that I can stop and I won't.
• 4:48
  Kat Gilbert: I don't feel overly emotionally attached to and I was married young.
• 4:53
  Kat Gilbert: I met my husband when I was still a student, so I had in my head that we were going to have kids, we were going to have a family, and I was.
• 5:00
  Kat Gilbert: I was eager to have them have children younger rather than older.
• 5:04
  Kat Gilbert: Because I met my husband when I was eager to have children younger rather than older, because I'd met my husband when I was young and also it felt like it was time.
• 5:10
  Kat Gilbert: I wanted to have time left at the end of my life to explore other opportunities as well, to re-enter the workforce and to also have the energy to survive toddlers, because toddlers are exhausting.
• 5:22
  Kat Gilbert: I think, and I figured if I was younger when I started it would be less exhausting, although I don't think that proved particularly true they're just exhausting, I think, whatever.
• 5:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: But yeah, I mean, yeah, it probably is.
• 5:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: When you have your energy yourself, it probably is easier, isn't it to deal with.
• 5:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, I'm just thinking in my 20s I had my children early 30s, but in mys I could probably gone out and got up, you know, the next day gone to work.
• 5:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: I couldn't do that.
• 5:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: Now I have got two small children, so I must have had more energy in my 20s to do that.
• 5:54
  Kat Gilbert: I think that was certainly the case.
• 5:55
  Kat Gilbert: I mean, I think running around after so I had my third when I was in my 30s and running around after two toddlers and having heard that that was exhausting, it was the part of my life that I would not want to change and I feel incredibly blessed to be able to not have to work when the children were small so that I could be their primary influence.
• 6:18
  Kat Gilbert: I mean, I completely understand that there are parents who need to go back to work, who or who even want to continue their career if their career trajectory is going in the direction they, they really want it to.
• 6:29
  Kat Gilbert: But for me, when my kids arrived, there was this all-encompassing desire to want to support them and help them grow and thrive.
• 6:37
  Kat Gilbert: And we then moved from the home counties to the midlands.
• 6:41
  Kat Gilbert: We moved closer to my husband's family for a bit of time and I stayed at home with them and I have such fond memories of all the wonderful things that we did when they were smaller.
• 6:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think it's really interesting to think to people that have stayed at home and I stayed at home for a bit as well because I think we're often projected that we're victims if we want to stay at home with children and and there is this sort of victimhood that you would work if you could, if the child care was in place.
• 7:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: But actually there's lots and lots of you know women that would choose actually to stay home with their mothers and definitely wouldn't consider themselves a victim.
• 7:18
  Kat Gilbert: I am one of those women.
• 7:19
  Kat Gilbert: The decision when I made it was, it felt against the grain compared to other women from the NCT group that I attended who were all having their maternity leave and planned it all out nice and clearly and then had their return to work date circled on their calendars.
• 7:34
  Kat Gilbert: That really wasn't me, I mean.
• 7:36
  Kat Gilbert: I was sort of like counting down with dread to the return to work because I didn't want to leave my eldest.
• 7:42
  Kat Gilbert: And then when, when I realized I didn't want to leave my eldest, and then when, when I realized I didn't have to and we could, I could stay at home.
• 7:48
  Kat Gilbert: It was sad to say goodbye to people.
• 7:50
  Kat Gilbert: It felt right.
• 7:51
  Kat Gilbert: It felt like it was the decision for us and for our family.
• 7:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: So sense of relief.
• 7:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: Then that you, I do remember feeling that and I did actually go back, and I only went back for a little short period because I was pregnant with my second and actually, being honest, it was a sense of relief because I had.
• 8:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, I really did enjoy my maternity leave and I did enjoy being with her and I loved going to all the baby groups yeah, me too you know, you know, and I actually I really did like my NCT friends and I made some some lovely friends during that time and I just wanted to eke it out.
• 8:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, as long as possible.
• 8:27
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I mean, obviously there is a worry then that people find it difficult to re-enter the workplace and I know some people do depending upon the length of career break and what they wanted to do after their career break.
• 8:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: How long was your?
• 8:39
  Kat Gilbert: career break, so it was about eight years long, so it was quite a significant chunk.
• 8:44
  Kat Gilbert: Yes, it's a good chunk.
• 8:45
  Kat Gilbert: Yeah, I've had longer being a full-time mum than I have as work as a working professional.
• 8:51
  Kat Gilbert: I was exceptionally lucky because when we, when I returned to the workforce when my daughter, my youngest entered into school, we were overseas.
• 8:59
  Kat Gilbert: We were down in the Falkland Islands and I managed to find a part-time, locally contracted role for the FCDO.
• 9:07
  Kat Gilbert: So I was working on communications projects, analysing stuff, writing speeches, things that allowed me to use language, which I like doing with my language background, and also it gave me kind of a gentle re-entry into the workforce.
• 9:25
  Kat Gilbert: And also it gave me kind of a gentle re-entry into the workforce.
• 9:26
  Kat Gilbert: It gave me well, they're part-time hours, so it gave me the opportunity to to get my head around having to have a professional identity and be a mum as well, and also the giving a bit of a taste of juggling, working and being a parent, because I'd never done that.
• 9:42
  Kat Gilbert: I mean, yes, I dropped children off for their funded hours at nursery, but I'd never had the oh gosh, I must leave work on time to collect the children.
• 9:50
  Kat Gilbert: I mean the amount of alarms I set on my phone for collecting kids, remembering to do that and then to take them back places.
• 9:57
  Kat Gilbert: Oh gosh, I mean I think I still have the alarms in the calendar in my calendar because I'm completely paranoid that it might happen again at some point.
• 10:05
  Kat Gilbert: Yeah, so it's a completely different ball game when you have to juggle children and a career, because my life, the focus of my life, felt like it wasn't on my career and it was on my family life outside.
• 10:19
  Kat Gilbert: But then when I got this role, I had to split it and then it was juggling that and balancing it and making sure that I was doing it well.
• 10:26
  Kat Gilbert: And by the time we returned to the UK the end of 2021 it was I started looking for a full-time job in the UK and I'd already I'd kind of managed to update my experience a bit.
• 10:38
  Kat Gilbert: I'd had a bit of, I felt a bit more in touch with the workforce again because I'd already been part of it in part-time capacity and overseas.
• 10:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: So how did you go about, like writing your CV, because that's what a lot of people seem to get nervous about.
• 10:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's like their CV, you know, when they're returning after a career break and they're like, oh, I've been out of work for such a long time, who will want me?
• 10:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: How did you sort of go through that in your head and I found it such a challenge.
• 11:07
  Kat Gilbert: Um, I remember looking at the CV that I'd written when I got the job, before I had the kid, and I remember thinking, oh my gosh, this is all so out of date.
• 11:16
  Kat Gilbert: I started updating it with the work, the job I was doing when I was pregnant, before I had the children.
• 11:23
  Kat Gilbert: I started thinking, looking at it critically, thinking don't just give a list of what you did.
• 11:28
  Kat Gilbert: Make sure you're thinking about what did you achieve?
• 11:32
  Kat Gilbert: How did it improve the operations of the office you were working in?
• 11:36
  Kat Gilbert: I tried to kind of bring the focus onto results and impact as opposed to just a list of duties and then highlighting my skills.
• 11:46
  Kat Gilbert: But then, because my career break was so long, I did have projects outside of work.
• 11:51
  Kat Gilbert: So I set up a blog with the with my kids, teaching them how to cook.
• 11:54
  Kat Gilbert: I would post, so I'd adapt recipes, I'd make them with all three of the mini Gilberts and I'd take photos of the little hands doing all the cooking recipes and then I'd post them online with instructions.
• 12:07
  Kat Gilbert: I put that down because it was a piece of work that I was proud of.
• 12:11
  Kat Gilbert: I'd learned how to write a website manage the back end of it.
• 12:14
  Kat Gilbert: I'd learned how to write a website, manage the back end of it.
• 12:16
  Kat Gilbert: I'd learned how to respond to comments.
• 12:17
  Kat Gilbert: I had a very had a very, very brief foray into like social media side of it as well.
• 12:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: I wasn't an expert, but it was something you'd given it a go and you'd learn stuff along the way yeah, so proving that I had the capacity to continue learning even when I was at wasn't working professionally.
• 12:33
  Kat Gilbert: So that went on my CV and then I also made sure to highlight skills that I maybe already had and wouldn't have really thought twice about beforehand.
• 12:41
  Kat Gilbert: Things like the time management and the ability, the resilience and the ability to look at things flexibly.
• 12:48
  Kat Gilbert: Yes, I may have mentioned them before my CV, but now it kind of felt like they were highlighted more because I'd used them in a different context and they kind of feel deeply embedded now.
• 12:58
  Kat Gilbert: So I mean managing a CEO's diary yes, it's challenging, it's difficult, it's easier the better you know the executive but managing your children's calendars and managing all three of them and then managing your husband's working diary and then yours as well, and trying to make sure that everyone gets to where they need to be for the correct time, has the right kit and that sometimes feels harder than the day job good.
• 14:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: So you spent some time on your cv and standing like you got in the right mindset talk me through, because you sort of said it's different, isn't it when you've stopped, when you go back into work and you're juggling work and family, did you feel like that you weren't doing anything well enough at that point?
• 14:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: Because that seems to be a lot of you know a theme.
• 14:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: When I speak to people, they feel they're not doing either good enough, or did you?
• 14:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know?
• 14:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: Were you pleased to be back in work?
• 14:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: What were your feelings and emotions?
• 14:40
  Kat Gilbert: Pleased to finally have a professional identity back.
• 14:43
  Kat Gilbert: That's amazing.
• 14:44
  Kat Gilbert: However, there was a big shift in my head.
• 14:48
  Kat Gilbert: My husband's a teacher, so in the past we always had all of the half terms the Christmas, easter and summer holidays together.
• 14:56
  Kat Gilbert: As a family, we do a load of day trips and we spend a lot of time together, and I think when the penny dropped and I realised that I wasn't going to have those holidays off with them as well, it felt painful because I had been the primary caregiver for so long that it took a while for me to fully let go and realise no, this is a partnership.
• 15:19
  Kat Gilbert: I've done my part there and now my husband.
• 15:23
  Kat Gilbert: He takes over on the holidays.
• 15:25
  Kat Gilbert: He's the one who sorts out who's going to which camp when, who's going to have the swimming lessons when and who's going to see which friend and who, how they're going to get there and get back and who's going to be invited around for tea.
• 15:36
  Kat Gilbert: He manages their social calendars in the holidays.
• 15:39
  Kat Gilbert: I just step back.
• 15:40
  Kat Gilbert: I work from home.
• 15:41
  Kat Gilbert: The kids come and say hello, I often have lunch with them, but their diary over the holidays is separate to mine.
• 15:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I work and they don't but I can imagine it's easier in some regards because you know there's a lot of panics, nearly some holidays.
• 15:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: We're recording this in June.
• 15:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: Everyone's starting to think, oh my gosh, you know we've got six, nine, whatever long your children have off, what am I going to do with work?
• 16:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I guess, if your husband or partner is a teacher, that is less stress.
• 16:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: Then it's also the feeling.
• 16:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: Do you feel the foam though as well?
• 16:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: Is it going out and having a nice time?
• 16:14
  Kat Gilbert: and you're a significant amount of complexity.
• 16:17
  Kat Gilbert: I mean the summer holidays, is not it's?
• 16:19
  Kat Gilbert: Not a logistical nightmare for us we just yeah we plan it, he executes it.
• 16:25
  Kat Gilbert: I must admit, because I work flexibly, there are occasions where I'd start a bit earlier and I'd leave a bit early and we'd go and do something nice in the afternoon.
• 16:33
  Kat Gilbert: I mean, we've gone for late walks in National Trust properties, gone to the cinema, because I finished work a bit early, because I started a bit earlier.
• 16:41
  Kat Gilbert: And I think you can't underestimate how much easier life can be when you've got children and you've got a flexible job, because it means to say that if I do need to go into school for a meeting, I can do so and I can rearrange my calendar and go in.
• 16:56
  Kat Gilbert: I don't have to get 20 approvals to leave early to get to a school play or a school event.
• 17:01
  Kat Gilbert: It's a matter of communication and making sure line managers are aware that Kat will be out of out of the office between this time and that time, but instead she'll work between this time and that time.
• 17:13
  Kat Gilbert: So it's amazing to have found a company that lets me do that.
• 17:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: So you came back from the Falklands and then I know, because I know now that you're in HR, was that always a dream of yours to move into HR?
• 17:27
  Kat Gilbert: Well, when I was working before having kids.
• 17:30
  Kat Gilbert: My PA role did comprise a lot of HR duties and a lot of that side of it, and I did always enjoy it.
• 17:36
  Kat Gilbert: But it was one of the things that it didn't really didn't happen before kids and I wasn't in a rush with my career.
• 17:43
  Kat Gilbert: I was cruising before the children, I was paying the bills, I was having a nice life, I was enjoying myself and I was finding my feet.
• 17:52
  Kat Gilbert: But then, when I came back after having children, I realized that I wanted to do that side of it.
• 17:59
  Kat Gilbert: I realized that I was enjoying it more than the the personal assistant side of it and part of what I like the most about being an assistant is the stakeholder management.
• 18:09
  Kat Gilbert: They're getting to understand people and know getting to know people better and helping them to thrive in their role.
• 18:16
  Kat Gilbert: But with the HR side of it you're sort of supporting the whole company, like that yeah and helping them find the best talent and helping make sure that people are engaged at work, and it's an area that I'm really interested in and so far, I've been doing it now for nearly two years and I'm really enjoying it.
• 18:37
  Elizabeth Willetts: Was this role that you got?
• 18:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: Was this the first role you got when you returned from the?
• 18:41
  Kat Gilbert: Falklands.
• 18:41
  Kat Gilbert: When I returned, I was initially as a PA to the CEO, yeah, and then that was in February I got that job and by I think it was the summer, the August time I'd also taken on some HR responsibilities and my role became hybrid PA to CEO and HR coordinator.
• 19:00
  Kat Gilbert: So, and with that I also embarked upon my CIPD level five in people management.
• 19:06
  Kat Gilbert: So I spent hours outside of work at the computer reading articles and learning about all sorts of wonderful things that would support and help me grow in the HR side of my career.
• 19:16
  Kat Gilbert: We've got a bookshelf which used to be filled with lovely children's books and all these sorts of things, that's now filled with um, with how-to guides and HR books.
• 19:28
  Kat Gilbert: And HR books seem to breed in our house.
• 19:31
  Kat Gilbert: They seem to be in every single room and the kids are picking them up, going, oh, another one of mummy's books, yeah, and they have to find their way back to my office in here, but it's.
• 19:42
  Kat Gilbert: I worked really hard to achieve that CIPD course, while working and with the kids.
• 19:47
  Elizabeth Willetts: How did you manage that?
• 19:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I also just to backtrack I'm going to come on to.
• 19:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think you're a really good example of somebody that has managed to change their career whilst being employed, because a lot of people I speak to want to do a complete career shift and I always say it's so much easier to do it in a company where they know you.
• 20:06
  Elizabeth Willetts: Sometimes the easiest thing to do is get that stepping stone role, like you did, and then, once you're there, you've shown you're a good, diligent employee.
• 20:15
  Elizabeth Willetts: You've put your hand up there.
• 20:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: I'm actually really interested in doing this.
• 20:17
  Elizabeth Willetts: Is there any more I can take on that will help me get there?
• 20:20
  Kat Gilbert: yeah.
• 20:20
  Kat Gilbert: So that was essentially what I did HR advisor at Vesta.
• 20:25
  Kat Gilbert: They left and I said to our head of HR that I was really enjoying covering the work that I'd been asked to do and was there any chance of supporting further, and ended up with me with the hybrid role.
• 20:40
  Kat Gilbert: And not every single place where you work gives you the opportunity to grow or to study.
• 20:47
  Kat Gilbert: And also, I think, with PAs and administrative support staff in particular, there is generally a habit that people pigeonhole them You're a PA or you're this.
• 21:00
  Kat Gilbert: Therefore, you can't leave that tiny little circle that we've given you.
• 21:03
  Kat Gilbert: You can't leave that tiny little circle that we've given you.
• 21:07
  Kat Gilbert: And I am lucky that the CEO of our company is passionate about letting people grow and learn in the areas that they feel called to.
• 21:14
  Kat Gilbert: And I was supported through my course and in my daily meetings with the CEO.
• 21:21
  Kat Gilbert: So when I was giving him PA stuff, I was also giving him information about what I've been reading, about what employment law update or this or that or the other.
• 21:27
  Kat Gilbert: So and he genuinely sounded interested as opposed to being like, oh great, cat's going off on a tangent again.
• 21:33
  Kat Gilbert: It I think feeling supported gives you confidence to continue and gives you the motivation because I spent most evenings.
• 21:41
  Kat Gilbert: I go and have dinner with the family and the kids and I come and then we do shower routines and bath routines and then I come back to the computer, switch it on and try and get a couple of hours reading.
• 21:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: So that's how you picked it in your study.
• 21:51
  Kat Gilbert: You did it in the evening, and then I spent pretty much most Saturdays as well.
• 21:55
  Kat Gilbert: So I get the calendar at the beginning of the month and I check what we had going on and then I block out as many of the Saturdays as I could that we hadn't already got stuff planned for, and then Sunday afternoons were generally family time.
• 22:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: So Did you?
• 22:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: Because I sometimes worked till weekend.
• 22:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: I didn't work to fit on Saturday myself, and then I always feel a bit guilty that I'm not spending the time with the kids.
• 22:17
  Elizabeth Willetts: But then it's like oh, but they are seeing me work.
• 22:19
  Elizabeth Willetts: How did you reconcile that in your head?
• 22:22
  Kat Gilbert: Oh my gosh.
• 22:22
  Kat Gilbert: The guilt was immense.
• 22:23
  Kat Gilbert: At the outset I was full of I want to do this because I feel the need to achieve.
• 22:28
  Kat Gilbert: I want to prove to myself that I can do this.
• 22:30
  Kat Gilbert: I want to prove to myself I'm not just a mum who is just going to an office for a paycheck.
• 22:35
  Kat Gilbert: I want to grow and thrive.
• 22:38
  Kat Gilbert: But then also there is the importance of your children seeing that hard work extends throughout life.
• 22:44
  Kat Gilbert: It's not just a momentary thing, it's not confined to school or to university.
• 22:49
  Kat Gilbert: If you want to progress, you can do it at any age.
• 22:51
  Kat Gilbert: You don't have to be 22, 23 at the beginning of your career and you don't have to stay in a career for your entire life.
• 22:59
  Kat Gilbert: There is a propensity now that people do change careers and they do move around children, and the more or the more my kids see that and they understand that, it will make them better prepared for the future, because when they enter the world of work it's probably going to look nothing like it does now and I want to give them as many tools so they can be resilient and adapt.
• 23:20
  Kat Gilbert: And if seeing me study outside of my working hours help them do that, I'm all for it.
• 23:28
  Elizabeth Willetts: Absolutely.
• 23:28
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know you're really good because you're really role modeling.
• 23:31
  Kat Gilbert: Yeah, well, I do it with the running too.
• 23:33
  Kat Gilbert: I mean I now take my middle son out running.
• 23:34
  Kat Gilbert: I mean I go two or three times a week and one of those times is at the weekend and he comes with me because he's seen me when he was younger.
• 23:42
  Kat Gilbert: He used to see me come back and be like, oh, what have you been doing?
• 23:44
  Kat Gilbert: What have you been doing?
• 23:45
  Kat Gilbert: And I was like mummy's been running.
• 23:47
  Kat Gilbert: And then he was like, oh, I can join in, I can join in.
• 23:50
  Kat Gilbert: So we started off with a couple of kilometers here or there and now now he does 5k with me pretty much every week, which is that's really nice, that's really good.
• 23:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think you're a really good example of somebody whose career is sort of taken on after children and I think it's really important to tell these stories because there is, you know, a lot of negative press that people, you know that women's careers can end after children and people end up in, you know, mummy trap roles and obviously a lot of people do.
• 24:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: But then there's a lot of actually taking control of your own destiny and I think this is true.
• 24:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: The drive has come because, would you, you said you were cruising before children, would you say, would you say you're cruising now?
• 24:28
  Kat Gilbert: no, I don't think I had any direction before I had kids, because I had in my head we were going to have children.
• 24:35
  Kat Gilbert: They were always on the plan, they were always on the cards and it's like my brain couldn't focus on another idea.
• 24:43
  Kat Gilbert: It was like I want to have a family.
• 24:45
  Kat Gilbert: And then, when I came back to the world of work, I feltvigorated.
• 24:51
  Kat Gilbert: Yes, it's a new stage of my life.
• 24:54
  Kat Gilbert: It's a I'm not thinking, oh my gosh, when am I going to have children?
• 24:57
  Kat Gilbert: Oh, was my biological clock ticking?
• 24:58
  Kat Gilbert: I didn't have any of those things running through my head.
• 25:01
  Kat Gilbert: Instead, I have.
• 25:02
  Kat Gilbert: How can I be the best version of myself?
• 25:04
  Kat Gilbert: How can I put everything I, all my kind of like experiences, all the things I've learned outside of the office space, all the things I've learned outside of the office space, all the things I've picked up along the way in studying in the office?
• 25:16
  Kat Gilbert: How can I put them to the best use so that I can, so I can grow, so I can help deliver for the company?
• 25:23
  Kat Gilbert: I'm working for and so that I can show my kids that life doesn't stop when you get older.
• 25:29
  Kat Gilbert: There's a lot of pressure on women to have it all, to juggle everything or to be the perfect version of themselves the whole time.
• 25:35
  Kat Gilbert: I may sound completely together, I may sound like I've got it all sorted out, but if my husband is ill, like he was a couple of weeks ago, I was manically rescheduling meetings at the last minute so I could go on school runs.
• 25:47
  Kat Gilbert: This isn't achieved without the support and help of people around me and the support of the company where I'm working to be given the opportunity to transition into HR, and the fact that we do have child care pretty much sorted for the holidays because my husband is a teacher.
• 26:06
  Kat Gilbert: All these things kind of aligned and have made my journey after having children a lot easier, and that has to be recognized it sounds like you've got your.
• 26:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know your life has been a series of chapters is you know?
• 26:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: You viewed it as a marathon rather than a sprint, and actually it's.
• 26:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know when people I think Michelle Obama said you can have it all, just not at the same time, and it's exactly that.
• 26:30
  Elizabeth Willetts: Now you've planned, you know everything, so maybe you don't feel overwhelmed either no, I don't feel overwhelmed.
• 26:35
  Kat Gilbert: I remember being frustrated when I had children looking uh, when I was at home being a stay-at-home mum.
• 26:42
  Kat Gilbert: It was the all the kind of like articles I read about getting back into the workforce and like the dire picture it painted and it stressed me out and I became apprehensive about returning to the workforce.
• 26:56
  Kat Gilbert: But then, when it happened, when the time occurred and I found the right job in the right place in the right circumstances, it was significantly smoother than I could ever have imagined.
• 27:08
  Kat Gilbert: And I think if you can afford to return at a more staggered rate or go part-time before going full-time, it makes it a lot easier to manage and a lot easier to adapt to.
• 27:20
  Kat Gilbert: And then you test your boundaries, you know what you can manage and cope with and then, if you ever decide to return full-time, it's not such a shock to the system and it also means to say that you're not suddenly doing everything all at once and being everything to everybody all at once.
• 27:36
  Kat Gilbert: How old are your children now?
• 27:38
  Kat Gilbert: So Sebastian's just finishing year six.
• 27:40
  Kat Gilbert: He's 11.
• 27:40
  Kat Gilbert: Finch is 10 in year five and Ophelia is she's eight next month and in year three yeah, and it does get.
• 27:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: I mean mine, mine are a bit younger than yours, but it's definitely less intense than those toddler years, especially when they're at school.
• 27:55
  Elizabeth Willetts: Five days get a bit of a bit of a quiet house.
• 27:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: So, yeah, if anyone's listening today, then they're in that toddler, those toddler years, hang in there yes, please do hang in there and cherish it yeah, absolutely, you've been a real inspiration.
• 28:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you so much for chatting with me.
• 28:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: If somebody wants to maybe connect with you and learn more about you and you know your cipd and how you've managed all your learning around family where can they connect with?
• 28:21
  Kat Gilbert: you.
• 28:21
  Kat Gilbert: So I'm on linkedin.
• 28:23
  Kat Gilbert: You'll find me under kat gilbert.
• 28:24
  Kat Gilbert: I think that's possibly the best way brilliant.
• 28:26
  Elizabeth Willetts: Well, we'll put you that link in the show notes.
• 28:28
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you so much, kat me today.
• 28:31
  Elizabeth Willetts: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 28:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 28:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 28:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 28:52
  Elizabeth Willetts: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
• 28:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.