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The Late Debate | 16 December · The Late Debate

0:00
Speaker 1: Wait, Welcome to the Wake Debate.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good evening and welcome to the Late Debate. I am
0:10
Speaker 2: Cali Marcus, joined tonight by Joe Hildebrand and Jamie Rodgers
0:15
Speaker 2: for a special edition of this show dedicated to the
0:19
Speaker 2: bond Eyed terror attack. We begin tonight with the top
0:24
Speaker 2: stories that we're going to be covering. Prime Minister Anthony
0:27
Speaker 2: Albanizi has met the hero who risked his life disarming
0:31
Speaker 2: one of the terrorists, But why hasn't he met or
0:35
Speaker 2: even responded to family members of the victims. Incredible dash
0:40
Speaker 2: cam footage shows the moment an elderly man bravely tried
0:45
Speaker 2: to stop one of the gunmen and pays the price
0:48
Speaker 2: with his life, And the acclaimed British author and commentator
0:53
Speaker 2: Brendan O'Neill will join us to explain why he says
0:57
Speaker 2: those who have demonized Israel have no right to speak
1:01
Speaker 2: out about the Bondie attack. But first, the grieving daughter
1:06
Speaker 2: of an elderly man slaughtered as he bravely tried to
1:10
Speaker 2: take down one of the terrorists has unloaded on the
1:13
Speaker 2: Albaneze government. In a powerful front page story in Tomorrow's
1:18
Speaker 2: Daily Telegraph, Shana Gutnick declared the federal government has quote
1:23
Speaker 2: blood on its hands. Dramatic footage shows her father, Reuben Morrison,
1:29
Speaker 2: spending the final moments of his life courageously throwing bricks
1:34
Speaker 2: at Sajid Akram, the elder gunman in the Father Son
1:38
Speaker 2: terror duo. MSS Gutnick says the government watched hatred grow
1:43
Speaker 2: and chose to do nothing. They minimized it, they excused it.
1:48
Speaker 2: They dismissed Jewish warnings as noise. She also speaks about
1:53
Speaker 2: her father's final act of bravery in an interview on
1:57
Speaker 2: a current affair that ran earlier tonight.
2:00
Speaker 3: It's him.
2:01
Speaker 4: He was a protector, he was a papa bear. He
2:03
Speaker 4: would do anything for anyone.
2:05
Speaker 5: And you know what, You've always known that your dad
2:07
Speaker 5: is a hero.
2:08
Speaker 4: Always he was always I was one of those kids.
2:10
Speaker 4: I was always so proud of my dad for who
2:13
Speaker 4: he was, for what he stood for, for how proud
2:16
Speaker 4: he was, and everything that he did and what he
2:18
Speaker 4: instilled in me. I was always so proud of him.
2:21
Speaker 5: And now the whole world knows.
2:23
Speaker 4: And now the world knows who he is.
2:26
Speaker 3: I think everyone has seen that vision of your dad.
2:31
Speaker 6: And there is a moment after Ahmed al Ahmed tackles
2:34
Speaker 6: the government and disarms him.
2:36
Speaker 3: Where your dad races.
2:38
Speaker 6: Is and there are bullets flying and he's throwing rocks.
2:43
Speaker 1: That's who he was.
2:44
Speaker 4: That is exactly who he was.
2:47
Speaker 5: He put everyone else before himself.
2:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just incredible stuff. And I think his daughter,
2:56
Speaker 2: Miss Gartnick, has echoed the thoughts of a lot of Australians.
3:00
Speaker 2: I mean, this certainly seems to be the overwhelming sentiment
3:03
Speaker 2: among the many, many people that I've spoken to at
3:06
Speaker 2: the Bondi Memorial side over these past two days. Joe,
3:11
Speaker 2: I'll bring you in first. I mean, I think a
3:14
Speaker 2: powerful front page from the Telegraph tomorrow that people will
3:17
Speaker 2: wake up too, and I dare say one that most
3:20
Speaker 2: readers will be going, yes, this is what I think too.
3:23
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. I think that Look,
3:26
Speaker 7: I don't think you can say, necessarily because of Anthie
3:29
Speaker 7: Albanezi or Chris Men's this is what happened. But I
3:32
Speaker 7: think you can certainly say that Jewish people felt that
3:35
Speaker 7: they were crying out. It's almost like one of those
3:38
Speaker 7: nightmares you have where you're screaming and no noise comes out.
3:41
Speaker 7: They're crying out saying this is happening to us. We
3:45
Speaker 7: know what it looks like, we have had it happen
3:48
Speaker 7: to us before we can see it coming, and it
3:51
Speaker 7: seems that it was just not met with the appropriate
3:55
Speaker 7: level of gravitas I think by some sections of federal gunment.
4:00
Speaker 7: I think Anthe Aberinezi clearly sincerely felt and you could
4:03
Speaker 7: see in his response Noday, I disagree.
4:06
Speaker 5: I disagree, as.
4:11
Speaker 7: The point is, I don't want to sort of, you know,
4:12
Speaker 7: I don't want to blame any individual who's not directly
4:15
Speaker 7: responsible for these murders, for these murders.
4:17
Speaker 1: But I think there was clearly.
4:18
Speaker 7: A case where you saw a quivocation with people where
4:22
Speaker 7: they would, you know, only condemn anti Semitism by condemning
4:25
Speaker 7: Islamophobia in the same breath when we know that antisemoni
4:29
Speaker 7: ismism has had a particular character, an incredibly specific character
4:36
Speaker 7: right throughout history for centuries, if not millennia, that has
4:40
Speaker 7: had catastrophic genocidal consequences. And if you cannot see, and
4:46
Speaker 7: if you cannot recognize that germinating in your society, and
4:50
Speaker 7: you do not do absolutely everything to just immediately shut
4:54
Speaker 7: it down, then what you see is what happened on
4:59
Speaker 7: Sunday evening. And and I think anyone who has any
5:02
Speaker 7: knowledge of history needs, you know, would not have been
5:05
Speaker 7: surprised that there has been this line that's kind of
5:08
Speaker 7: drawn to this. I in my first on Sunday night,
5:12
Speaker 7: I went home and I just immediately just started bashing
5:15
Speaker 7: out a column because I had to, just because I couldn't.
5:18
Speaker 7: You know, I wasn't meant to, I wasn't asked to,
5:21
Speaker 7: wasn't scheduled to. I just it was just something I
5:23
Speaker 7: had to get out. And it started with October seven,
5:28
Speaker 7: twenty twenty three, and then within twenty four hours that
5:33
Speaker 7: descent on the Opera house where they started chanting wears
5:36
Speaker 7: the Jews, and I just said, they chanted where's the Jews?
5:41
Speaker 1: Well they found them, They found them.
5:43
Speaker 7: And the idea that you again had at the time
5:47
Speaker 7: apologists for these people say, I know, it wasn't gas
5:51
Speaker 7: the Jews, it wasn't f the Jews, it was just
5:53
Speaker 7: wear's the Jews. I mean that to me, that just
5:56
Speaker 7: blew my mind that the first sort of instant by
6:00
Speaker 7: some on the activists left wasn't to say these people
6:03
Speaker 7: are clearly dangerous monsters who are threatening harm to a
6:07
Speaker 7: section of the community. Their first response was to actually
6:11
Speaker 7: do a big investigation, say oh no, it wasn't that bad.
6:13
Speaker 3: It wasn't that bad, and forget who did that investigation.
6:17
Speaker 7: Again, I don't like to. I don't like to. I
6:19
Speaker 7: don't like to sort of.
6:22
Speaker 2: Because it was Latou who did that investigation for them,
6:25
Speaker 2: that is where it to.
6:26
Speaker 3: It did.
6:26
Speaker 2: And look, Joe, I appreciate your moral clarity, and you
6:30
Speaker 2: are very very strong on anti Semitism and the history
6:34
Speaker 2: of it.
6:34
Speaker 3: That doesn't go unnoticed. But I do think you're clouded
6:37
Speaker 3: by your look how much you like.
6:42
Speaker 2: I get that, But Jamie, we can because I found
6:46
Speaker 2: Anthony Albernizi's initial response first in his statement on Sunday night,
6:51
Speaker 2: where he didn't even mention Jews and the attack on
6:54
Speaker 2: the Jewish community at that point that was shameful. And
6:58
Speaker 2: then later when he got up at the pre conference
7:00
Speaker 2: there was no emotion whatsoever.
7:02
Speaker 3: It seemed completely inauthentic.
7:04
Speaker 2: And that's without even taking into context how he's acted
7:08
Speaker 2: over the past two years.
7:10
Speaker 3: I'm not directly blaming him.
7:12
Speaker 2: The only two people, as far as we know yet
7:14
Speaker 2: we still learning more about these gunmen are the two
7:17
Speaker 2: gunmen themselves. But he did create a climate clearly that
7:22
Speaker 2: contributed to this seething hatred for Jews.
7:28
Speaker 6: Yes, and everything he said is spot on. And I
7:31
Speaker 6: think Sunday was the result of a catastrophic failure of
7:35
Speaker 6: the Alberanesi government. And you just mentioned Joe about October
7:39
Speaker 6: seven and then the displays that we saw on the
7:41
Speaker 6: Opera house steps. Had Anthony Albernzi stood up straight after
7:45
Speaker 6: that and said that was a disgusting scene that we
7:48
Speaker 6: have seen on the opera house steps. That is an
7:50
Speaker 6: icon of our country and their Jewish community are a big.
7:53
Speaker 5: Part of our nation. But he didn't do that.
7:57
Speaker 6: He was silent, and the problem with that then it
7:59
Speaker 6: allows anti Semitism to continue to fester. We then have
8:03
Speaker 6: seen the fire bombing of synagogues when you're out chanting death,
8:06
Speaker 6: death to the IDF and you see the displays on
8:09
Speaker 6: the Harbor Bridge with the signs of Hermas and Isis
8:12
Speaker 6: flags and those sort of scenes lead to something that
8:17
Speaker 6: was what was going to happen on Sunday, and the
8:19
Speaker 6: Jewish community as well as other Australians have been crying
8:22
Speaker 6: out for some action. We don't want words, You need
8:26
Speaker 6: your leader to stand up. And I think on Sunday,
8:29
Speaker 6: when he put out that press statement. I had a
8:31
Speaker 6: lot of people actually write to him and say, there's
8:33
Speaker 6: no mention of the Jewish community.
8:34
Speaker 5: There's no mention at all.
8:36
Speaker 6: Immediately, yes, and that came from a lot of people
8:38
Speaker 6: to say there's no And these weren't Jewish people. These
8:40
Speaker 6: were just Australians that were absolutely disgusted by what they
8:45
Speaker 6: saw and so distressed.
8:46
Speaker 5: And all of them kept.
8:47
Speaker 6: Saying there's no mention about the Jewish community. And sadly
8:51
Speaker 6: that has been the view I believe about Anthony Albernizi
8:55
Speaker 6: during this whole past two years.
8:56
Speaker 5: I think he needs to go to Israel.
8:58
Speaker 6: He hasn't been to Israel in however long Joe, when
9:02
Speaker 6: was the last time he went to.
9:03
Speaker 2: He has refused to go since the attacks, and his
9:07
Speaker 2: ministers have refused to tour the sides.
9:09
Speaker 5: Of October exactly. She was over there and.
9:11
Speaker 2: He went, so how can they not be blood on
9:15
Speaker 2: their hands. Let's move on to something else Anthony Albernizi
9:18
Speaker 2: did today, and that is to visit the man who
9:22
Speaker 2: has become the underspeated hero in this. I mean, we've
9:26
Speaker 2: seen a lot of brave actions like the ones we
9:28
Speaker 2: showed you of this woman's father, Reuven just now throwing bricks.
9:32
Speaker 2: But before that we saw Ahmed al Ahmed, who is
9:37
Speaker 2: a fruiterer from the southern sutherland Shire.
9:41
Speaker 3: He took on this gunman on the scene.
9:45
Speaker 2: This extraordinary footage that emerged on the night here again
9:50
Speaker 2: playing for you. He's not armed, but he still tackled
9:53
Speaker 2: the gunman, took his firearm off him and pointed at
9:57
Speaker 2: him in order to disarm him. It was incredible bravery
10:01
Speaker 2: and a lot has been said over the past couple
10:03
Speaker 2: of days about how he is a Syrian immigrant and
10:07
Speaker 2: he is a Muslim himself. Well, Prime Minister Anthony Alberanzi
10:12
Speaker 2: visited mister Ahmad in hospital and shared this very strong
10:17
Speaker 2: I think.
10:17
Speaker 8: You're wrong, as strong believe you'll get courage is inspiring.
10:26
Speaker 2: But I think while it is commendable to honor this
10:30
Speaker 2: man with a visit from the Prime Minister, and I'd
10:33
Speaker 2: like to see him get a citizenship here, I understand
10:37
Speaker 2: he's he's he is an honorary Aussie. In my eyes,
10:40
Speaker 2: I think he's prove I think Australian is the year
10:43
Speaker 2: and he's not even Australian yet. However, I wanted to
10:47
Speaker 2: just make the contrast between Anthony Alberanzi.
10:51
Speaker 3: I think.
10:51
Speaker 2: I mean, it still strikes me as a photo opportunity
10:54
Speaker 2: for the Prime Minister, frankly, but the contrast between him
10:58
Speaker 2: racing to visit this hero and he still hasn't visited,
11:02
Speaker 2: as far as we know, any of the families of
11:05
Speaker 2: the victims. I spoke to the family of ten year
11:09
Speaker 2: old Matilda now she's the youngest victim in this Bondlight massacre.
11:15
Speaker 3: They attended the scene of.
11:16
Speaker 2: The Bondline vigil today where they talked on camera about
11:21
Speaker 2: what this has meant for them, and I asked them
11:24
Speaker 2: if they had heard from Anthony ALBERIZI.
11:26
Speaker 3: This is what they said. Have you heard from the
11:29
Speaker 3: Prime Minister?
11:30
Speaker 1: Not directly, We've just.
11:31
Speaker 9: Kind of came out, came out.
11:35
Speaker 3: Has his office hasn't made contact with you. Do you
11:38
Speaker 3: have a message for the government. Do you think that
11:40
Speaker 3: they've handled the anti satry?
11:41
Speaker 10: I think it was just I personally sent on Facebook
11:44
Speaker 10: message to what support like I never answer, never get
11:47
Speaker 10: to announcer.
11:48
Speaker 1: We won't get answer, and I hope we do. I
11:50
Speaker 1: want to see what they say. I do.
11:53
Speaker 10: What the government give for families, We don't know it yet,
11:55
Speaker 10: like you know, but support of people around the world.
11:58
Speaker 10: It's enormous and we're ready. She eated because their patents
12:02
Speaker 10: and their mind, kids remain kids.
12:04
Speaker 3: They will need it, Jamie, I'll bring you in first.
12:08
Speaker 1: Now.
12:09
Speaker 2: I think this family was so gracious. They spent such
12:11
Speaker 2: a long time expressing gratitude for the outpouring of support
12:15
Speaker 2: from people after the death of this poor innocent girl.
12:19
Speaker 3: But it's low.
12:21
Speaker 2: I think that there has been no contact attempted from
12:24
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister and his office, at least that this
12:27
Speaker 2: family is aware of.
12:28
Speaker 3: But how could they.
12:28
Speaker 2: I don't expect them to be monitoring all their Facebook messages,
12:32
Speaker 2: but how could the Prime Minister not have reached out.
12:35
Speaker 6: I think from what I was looking on social that
12:37
Speaker 6: the Elbow has turned off a lot of notifications on
12:41
Speaker 6: his social media, so potentially contact yes, So I was
12:45
Speaker 6: just saying so potentially on the Facebook siety might not
12:47
Speaker 6: have actually believed a notification on that, but that doesn't
12:51
Speaker 6: excuse it. His team at least haven't tried to reach
12:53
Speaker 6: out to the victims' families, and especially someone that has
12:57
Speaker 6: just lost a ten year old child who's life last
13:00
Speaker 6: photo was there at the petting zoo at Bondai.
13:03
Speaker 5: I think for people that have children.
13:05
Speaker 6: You look at that and just think she looks so
13:07
Speaker 6: happy moments before knowing what was going on. And for
13:11
Speaker 6: Albo to go and see the hero, which you were
13:15
Speaker 6: very true in saying, like he is very much deserved
13:18
Speaker 6: to go and meet the Prime Minister and to keep
13:21
Speaker 6: do his thanks for what he did to the community.
13:23
Speaker 6: But I do think Albo should have put as a
13:26
Speaker 6: priority to go and speak to the victims' families or
13:29
Speaker 6: at least try and make contact, to go and pass
13:32
Speaker 6: on his consolences.
13:33
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think look at I mean, it's obviously a really,
13:36
Speaker 7: really fraught one. I honestly feel physically sick just thinking
13:39
Speaker 7: about Paul Matilda.
13:40
Speaker 1: Any parent does, I think.
13:42
Speaker 7: I think the problem And again I haven't spoken to
13:44
Speaker 7: the PMA anything. I'm just sort of I just know
13:47
Speaker 7: the thinking around big issues like this, like natural disasters
13:51
Speaker 7: where people have died, where people are grieving, for politicians
13:54
Speaker 7: sort of rushes to make contact with the family, they
13:56
Speaker 7: get said, oh they just want the photo op, or
13:59
Speaker 7: they're intruding on.
13:59
Speaker 1: Some month's grief.
14:02
Speaker 7: And again, or you know, his office may have been
14:04
Speaker 7: privately trying to get in touch.
14:05
Speaker 1: They have it. I have no doubt that now.
14:07
Speaker 7: That he's where that they do want to make contact
14:11
Speaker 7: with him. I have no doubt they will make contact.
14:13
Speaker 7: I have no doubt they will get all the support
14:15
Speaker 7: they need. I think just in the chaotic aftermath where
14:17
Speaker 7: you've got so much stuff, you know, a politician, I think,
14:21
Speaker 7: with a bit of sensitivity, you know what, maybe they
14:23
Speaker 7: don't want me. You know, you've got people who are
14:25
Speaker 7: really really grieving and suffering this huge existential loss. Do
14:29
Speaker 7: they really want a stranger to come in and say,
14:32
Speaker 7: you know, leave a message and saying, oh, you know.
14:34
Speaker 5: They want to see him they're smiling with.
14:36
Speaker 7: I think with the case of the case with Hmed,
14:39
Speaker 7: it is that it's not a tragic sit like it's
14:42
Speaker 7: like he's been injured terribly, which is awful obviously, but
14:45
Speaker 7: it is a heroic story. It is not him intruding
14:49
Speaker 7: on someone's grief. And I think that's the difference, and
14:51
Speaker 7: I think I think it is worth noting. And again
14:54
Speaker 7: it shouldn't really matter, but when you have tensions so
14:57
Speaker 7: white hot as they are now, I it was just
15:00
Speaker 7: so relieved that it was actually another Muslim who tackled
15:04
Speaker 7: these terrorists, so we can actually frame this is you know,
15:07
Speaker 7: this is a fight against extremist, against radical Islam, Absolutely,
15:11
Speaker 7: isn't it.
15:12
Speaker 2: Because I do think most Australians Jomie realize we don't
15:16
Speaker 2: need that to have been a Muslim hero to recognize
15:19
Speaker 2: that there are peace loving moderate Muslims and there are extremists.
15:24
Speaker 2: And it is the extremists and the radical Islamists who
15:27
Speaker 2: we always speak out about.
15:29
Speaker 6: Absolutely, and that is the crux of this discussion as
15:32
Speaker 6: we need to be talking about how to eradicate radical Islam.
15:36
Speaker 6: And that's what I was trying to just say that
15:38
Speaker 6: before is correct me if I'm wrong, But I believe
15:41
Speaker 6: that when Pauline Hanson was out at the memorial site,
15:43
Speaker 6: she did go and speak to Matilda's family and Barnaby
15:47
Speaker 6: Joyce let.
15:47
Speaker 2: Me what happened because I was there for that moment
15:50
Speaker 2: and Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce, we'll talk about them
15:53
Speaker 2: a little later. They got rapturous applause as they arrived,
15:56
Speaker 2: the biggest reaction, but the family actually sought out Pauline
16:02
Speaker 2: and Barnaby and wanted to speak to them, and that
16:05
Speaker 2: was the first time we'd heard them. They just arrived
16:07
Speaker 2: at the vigil. The aunt Lynn who we saw a
16:11
Speaker 2: little earlier. She had just arrived in Sydney to be
16:14
Speaker 2: around her family and they wanted to speak to Paulin
16:17
Speaker 2: and Barnaby because that's who they trusted to tell their
16:21
Speaker 2: story and try and ask them for help to change things. Anyway,
16:27
Speaker 2: let's move on and I want to bring in as
16:29
Speaker 2: someone I'm very pleased is available to talk to us
16:32
Speaker 2: on the show, Spiked online author and chief political reporter
16:36
Speaker 2: Brendan O'Neill, who is in London.
16:39
Speaker 3: Brendan, thank you for your time.
16:40
Speaker 2: You always nail it with your moral clarity when it
16:44
Speaker 2: comes to these events. But tell us first, how is
16:48
Speaker 2: the UK reacting to what has happened here in Bonlai.
16:53
Speaker 11: Just huge shock and discussed and people are really outraged.
16:58
Speaker 11: I was at a vigil outside Parliament last night and
17:01
Speaker 11: it was very somber, very sad, very interestingly that the
17:04
Speaker 11: Labor minister, the government minister that came to speak, was
17:07
Speaker 11: booed because people are very angry at the government and
17:10
Speaker 11: I think they're right to be angry, because I think
17:12
Speaker 11: the story of Australia and Britain and other parts of
17:15
Speaker 11: Europe over the past two years is that governments have
17:18
Speaker 11: let antisemitism fester. They have let it grow and take
17:22
Speaker 11: hold in our communities. We've seen it with our own eyes,
17:25
Speaker 11: and Sky News Australia among others, have been warning about
17:28
Speaker 11: this problem for a very long time, and then it
17:31
Speaker 11: came to such grotesque fruition at Bondai Beach. So there's
17:36
Speaker 11: real sorrow and alarm at what happened, but there's a
17:40
Speaker 11: brewing sense of anger too that this was allowed to
17:42
Speaker 11: spin out of control.
17:44
Speaker 2: Well, one of the first things that struck me on
17:47
Speaker 2: Sunday night here when this was unfolding was that it
17:50
Speaker 2: was at another big Jewish high holiday Jong Kippor, when
17:55
Speaker 2: in Manchester another terrorist opened fire on Jewish.
18:00
Speaker 3: Congregants at a synagogue there.
18:03
Speaker 2: I mean, are people struck there by what happened only
18:08
Speaker 2: in your country just a few months ago.
18:12
Speaker 11: You know, we have to be so brutally honest with ourselves,
18:15
Speaker 11: which is that many Jews have been killed over the
18:18
Speaker 11: past year by people shouting free Palestine or waving the
18:22
Speaker 11: Palestine colors. We've got to be so honest about this.
18:25
Speaker 11: You know, an elderly Jewish lady was burnt to death
18:28
Speaker 11: by a man shouting free Palestine in Colorado just a
18:30
Speaker 11: few months ago, the young couple were shot to death
18:33
Speaker 11: outside the Capitol Jewish Museum in Washington, DC, also by
18:37
Speaker 11: a man shouting free Palestine. We had the Yng Kapor killings,
18:40
Speaker 11: as you say, in Manchester in October by a man
18:43
Speaker 11: who said, I'm doing this for the children that you killed.
18:47
Speaker 11: That's what he said as he was attacking those Jewish congregants.
18:50
Speaker 11: And now we've had the Bondai Beach massacre. This has
18:53
Speaker 11: been an awful year for the safety and security of
18:56
Speaker 11: Jews in the Western world, and we've got to be
18:58
Speaker 11: so honest about that. And you know, for me, the
19:00
Speaker 11: most shocking thing about the Young Kippor killings in Manchester
19:03
Speaker 11: in England is that on that very evening in London,
19:06
Speaker 11: so called pro Palestine protesters gathered and chanted long Live
19:11
Speaker 11: the inter Fada and globalized the into farda. My view
19:14
Speaker 11: is that Bondai is what happens when you globalize the
19:17
Speaker 11: into Fada, When you openly call for violence against Jews
19:21
Speaker 11: and for the destruction of the Jewish nation, you can't
19:24
Speaker 11: then turn around and be surprised when we actually see
19:27
Speaker 11: violence against Jews. So I am really disturbed by the
19:30
Speaker 11: interplay between so called respectable anti Zionism and then the
19:34
Speaker 11: kind of violent antisemitism we saw in Bondai. I think
19:36
Speaker 11: these two things are intimately linked.
19:39
Speaker 2: You are so right, and I mean we've heard that
19:41
Speaker 2: chant here on university campuses, across the Harbor Bridge, and
19:46
Speaker 2: of course outside the Cine Opera House, where people were
19:48
Speaker 2: also asking, not gas the Jews, apparently, but where's the Jews?
19:52
Speaker 2: And then on Sunday they found the Jews. You wrote
19:55
Speaker 2: a brilliant piece in the Free Press. I'll just quote
19:59
Speaker 2: a little bit because I want to get expand on
20:02
Speaker 2: your thoughts here. You said, I'm tired of tiptoeing around this.
20:05
Speaker 2: If you had any part into faming the Jewish nation
20:09
Speaker 2: as the most evil nation and those who support it
20:11
Speaker 2: as scum, then I don't want to hear a word
20:14
Speaker 2: from you about Bondli Brennan. Why do you think that
20:19
Speaker 2: those who have demonized Israel and I agree with you
20:23
Speaker 2: here don't have a right to speak up now when
20:26
Speaker 2: it's Jews that are being hunted down.
20:29
Speaker 11: You know, people say it's not anti Semitic to criticize Israel,
20:32
Speaker 11: and of course that's true, but we're not talking about
20:35
Speaker 11: criticism of Israel. What we've had over the past two
20:38
Speaker 11: years is blind hatred for Israel. This furious, bigoted venom
20:43
Speaker 11: against Israel. March is on the streets every weekend, calling
20:46
Speaker 11: for the destruction of this one country. We've had people
20:49
Speaker 11: demonizing the Jewish state as the most evil state, as
20:52
Speaker 11: a bloodthirsty entity, as a state that loves to kill children.
20:56
Speaker 11: You know, we've had the rehabilitation of those medieval tropes
20:59
Speaker 11: about us, that they are bloodthirsty and they kill kids.
21:02
Speaker 11: Those old tropes have been rehabilitated through so called anti Zionism.
21:06
Speaker 11: It's created a culture of animus against both the Jewish
21:09
Speaker 11: nation and the Jewish people. You know, I'm sorry to
21:12
Speaker 11: tell these people, but you cannot go around single mindedly
21:16
Speaker 11: demonizing the Jewish state morning, noon, and night and then
21:19
Speaker 11: be surprised when Jewish people get it in the neck.
21:22
Speaker 11: If they expect us to think it's a coincidence that
21:25
Speaker 11: this rise in violence against Jews has coincided with their
21:28
Speaker 11: animus against the Jewish state, we're not buying that. They
21:31
Speaker 11: have created a real culture of danger and menace for
21:34
Speaker 11: the Jews of the Western world, and I think they
21:36
Speaker 11: need to own that, and the rest of us need
21:38
Speaker 11: to challenge it.
21:39
Speaker 2: Brendan O'Neill, such powerful words. Thanks again for your moral clarity,
21:44
Speaker 2: and I hope the people who need to hear those
21:45
Speaker 2: are listening appreciate your time. Jamie look huck. I couldn't
21:52
Speaker 2: find fault with a single one of the words he
21:55
Speaker 2: was saying. And it struck me that I was at
21:57
Speaker 2: the Bondipe Jewel yesterday this some pro Palestine protesters turned up,
22:02
Speaker 2: including a woman who claimed she was Jewish, wearing a kafa,
22:05
Speaker 2: saying she has a right to mourn too, But she
22:08
Speaker 2: stood there, refusing to leave for ten minutes.
22:10
Speaker 3: Police eventually moved her on.
22:12
Speaker 2: They provided a protection racket, it felt like around her
22:16
Speaker 2: as they escorted her and pushed us away twenty officers
22:20
Speaker 2: to the local police station.
22:21
Speaker 3: She was released.
22:22
Speaker 2: What right does she have to attend an event like
22:27
Speaker 2: this and say that she can mourn?
22:29
Speaker 3: I don't think she has any.
22:31
Speaker 5: I found that whole thing bizarre.
22:33
Speaker 6: I watched that all unfolding, and you were going alongside
22:36
Speaker 6: her and there with her the kafia and standing there
22:40
Speaker 6: at a Jewish.
22:41
Speaker 5: Memorial and then claiming to be Jewish.
22:43
Speaker 6: I didn't understand why she was there but also wearing
22:47
Speaker 6: that display of what I see as an active hatred
22:52
Speaker 6: and almost antagonized in a way.
22:54
Speaker 2: And to be clear, every Jew, bar a few on
22:59
Speaker 2: the fringe, would see that extremely provocative because that is
23:03
Speaker 2: the symbol that for the Palestinian Resistance Hamas as well.
23:10
Speaker 2: That's how it's viewed by a large portion of the
23:13
Speaker 2: Jewish community. So it was undoubtedly provocative, and I think
23:17
Speaker 2: you know it was.
23:19
Speaker 3: That was what it was meant to be.
23:21
Speaker 1: Absolutely it was that.
23:22
Speaker 7: Again, this is where you get to people who are extremists.
23:27
Speaker 7: They are ideologues to the point where nothing is as
23:31
Speaker 7: important as the ideology, even human life. The left have
23:36
Speaker 7: their extremists that are just as bad as the Nazis,
23:40
Speaker 7: just as bad as the right, the people who have
23:43
Speaker 7: perpetuated the worst ever genocide against Jewish people.
23:46
Speaker 1: You can see.
23:47
Speaker 7: Sometimes even just you know, I've likened them to sharks.
23:50
Speaker 7: They're just dead eyed when you see them. When you
23:52
Speaker 7: see them main these statesments and I just do not care.
23:55
Speaker 7: You see that there is no sense of any boundary.
23:59
Speaker 7: So that is why these people will barricade, blockade, MP's officers,
24:04
Speaker 7: smash them up and nothing matters. Everything's justifiable because somewhere
24:08
Speaker 7: on the other side in the world. Somebody else is
24:10
Speaker 7: killing somebody else, and you are so obsessed by it.
24:14
Speaker 7: I mean, it is honestly like the sort of obsession
24:16
Speaker 7: you would see with a psychotic, obsessive criminal.
24:21
Speaker 1: It is someone who.
24:22
Speaker 7: Is so absolutely blinkedly focused on this one thing and
24:26
Speaker 7: nothing else. As Winston Churchill said, a fanatic is someone
24:30
Speaker 7: who can't change their mind and won't change the subject,
24:33
Speaker 7: and that is clearly what this woman is doing. This
24:35
Speaker 7: is the same people and same types of people who
24:39
Speaker 7: demanded the right to protest on the anniversary of October seven,
24:44
Speaker 7: the worst massacre since the Holocaust.
24:47
Speaker 1: But no, the Jewish people.
24:49
Speaker 7: Just after one year, wanting to be able to commemorate
24:53
Speaker 7: that loss isn't as important as our right to protest
24:57
Speaker 7: yet again yet another week because we want to get
24:59
Speaker 7: out of our isn't. And it's interesting that. I mean,
25:02
Speaker 7: one of the one of the thoughts behind allowing these
25:06
Speaker 7: protests to go ahead is that it would be something
25:08
Speaker 7: like a release valve, and you know, an escape valve
25:11
Speaker 7: that if people could get all their anger out of
25:13
Speaker 7: their system at these weekly protests, then hopefully we wouldn't
25:16
Speaker 7: see what happened in Bondai on Sunday, and again it
25:19
Speaker 7: just goes to show how flawed that is. And you know,
25:24
Speaker 7: again I don't want to blame sort of politicians or whatever,
25:26
Speaker 7: because you know, we've had these attacks happen under Donald Trump.
25:29
Speaker 1: We've had them happen in the UK. We've had to happen.
25:33
Speaker 3: Has tried to stop it, and his government has.
25:35
Speaker 1: That's right, and.
25:37
Speaker 7: It has overruled that's right, and he has tried really
25:39
Speaker 7: really hard, and you know, and this and this still
25:42
Speaker 7: happened because these people, you know, you know, there's there's
25:45
Speaker 7: a peace deal in guards. I mean, what the hell
25:47
Speaker 7: are these terrorists terrorizing people for. There's a peace deal
25:52
Speaker 7: that was good enough for Hermas, and it's still not
25:54
Speaker 7: good enough for these guys or indeed the protesters who
25:57
Speaker 7: think they still have to come out every week and protests.
26:00
Speaker 7: And so this is the kind of ideological extremism we're
26:03
Speaker 7: seeing that then gives a cover and a justification for
26:06
Speaker 7: active terrorism, because we have to remember, terrorists don't think
26:10
Speaker 7: they're the bad guys. They think they're the good guys,
26:12
Speaker 7: and so they look for evidence to justify their actions,
26:16
Speaker 7: and the more extreme their actions, the more extreme ideological.
26:21
Speaker 1: Evidence they need.
26:21
Speaker 7: And if they have people who are saying, yes, Israel
26:24
Speaker 7: is a genocidal, bloodthirsty death state.
26:27
Speaker 1: So whatever you do to Jews anywhere in the.
26:30
Speaker 7: World is okay because they are always worse, then that
26:35
Speaker 7: is what gives them the capacity to do it. The
26:36
Speaker 7: other thing, of course, is were these people at any
26:40
Speaker 7: of those earlier rallies? Do we know there's stuff online
26:42
Speaker 7: that I don't think has been verified.
26:44
Speaker 3: I've seen the same thing.
26:45
Speaker 7: But even before that was sent to me a Jewish
26:48
Speaker 7: friend of mine who had gotten in touch. That was
26:51
Speaker 7: the first thing he said, He said, I've heard you've
26:54
Speaker 7: written this thing about October seven. Were any of these
26:56
Speaker 7: guys there, and it'd be weird if they weren't in
26:58
Speaker 7: a way, wouldn't were they?
27:01
Speaker 1: So that's right.
27:02
Speaker 7: So again it may be that some of those literally
27:05
Speaker 7: chanting where's the Jews? Were literally the same people in.
27:07
Speaker 3: Amasia was watching one of them.
27:10
Speaker 1: That's right.
27:11
Speaker 2: They need to be in a protest to come to
27:13
Speaker 2: authorities attention. But Jamie, what's happening to talk to us
27:17
Speaker 2: about the government's response, because gun reform has been a
27:21
Speaker 2: big part of how the government wants to move this
27:25
Speaker 2: forward and solve this issue.
27:27
Speaker 6: Yes, this is one thing I must say, when the
27:30
Speaker 6: discussion started to be around gun reform, I thought this
27:34
Speaker 6: is not the main issue that we should be focusing
27:36
Speaker 6: on right now. This is almost pushing aside the issue
27:40
Speaker 6: of anti Semitism and focusing on the issue of gun laws. Now,
27:44
Speaker 6: there was an article today that did highlight that there
27:46
Speaker 6: is an issue within New South Wales with the amount
27:48
Speaker 6: of firearms that are currently owned by individuals. But let's
27:52
Speaker 6: take a listen to Prime Minister Anthony ALBINIZI of the
27:55
Speaker 6: list of considerations of why he's going down the gun
27:58
Speaker 6: review path.
28:00
Speaker 8: The consideration that will take place includes limiting the number
28:04
Speaker 8: of guns an individual can own, the type of guns
28:06
Speaker 8: that are legal, where the gun ownership should require a
28:10
Speaker 8: strained citizenship, and accelerating work on the National Firearm to Register.
28:19
Speaker 6: Now, I think that this also is albom when you
28:23
Speaker 6: watch him in those press conferences. I know, Joe you
28:25
Speaker 6: have said that you felt as though you could see
28:27
Speaker 6: the emotion within him. For me, I really feel as
28:30
Speaker 6: though I just really feel as though this is a
28:33
Speaker 6: Prime minister that we're looking at that's really out of
28:35
Speaker 6: his depth and in a way he doesn't really know
28:37
Speaker 6: what to do. And let's not forget Chris Mins is
28:39
Speaker 6: the one that sort of started the discussion around gun
28:42
Speaker 6: reform and then Albinizi has taken over that to really
28:46
Speaker 6: lead this discussion. But I think this is not where
28:48
Speaker 6: we should be focusing our attention. And in fact, let's
28:51
Speaker 6: listen to the gentleman who was the one that bought
28:54
Speaker 6: in the gun reform after Port Arthur massacre in John Howard.
29:00
Speaker 12: Graded into a debate about changes to government. Was that
29:03
Speaker 12: is a diversion. The issue here is anti Semetrism. No
29:08
Speaker 12: failure over the last two years has been that of
29:11
Speaker 12: the federal government, led by the Prime Minister as Any
29:14
Speaker 12: albit easy to bring sufficient energy to a broad bast
29:19
Speaker 12: attack on the evil of anti Semitism.
29:23
Speaker 6: So obviously there is an issue in terms of how
29:26
Speaker 6: many guns are allowed at the moment, but I just
29:29
Speaker 6: think we need to be focusing on how to get
29:31
Speaker 6: rid of antisemitism and to minimize this radical Islam that
29:35
Speaker 6: we are seeing within our country, and putting in legislation
29:40
Speaker 6: that doesn't change hate, won't change the hate and the
29:43
Speaker 6: behavior that we are seeing. So we need to see
29:45
Speaker 6: some strong leadership from Albow and just really make it
29:48
Speaker 6: very clear that it is the anti Semitism that we
29:50
Speaker 6: want to stamp out.
29:51
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that's right. I think two things can
29:52
Speaker 7: be true at the same time. I think you have
29:54
Speaker 7: a lot of people. I'm not necessarily talking about the government,
29:56
Speaker 7: because I think there are. I think a lot of
29:58
Speaker 7: people were surprised that that the laws that we thought
30:01
Speaker 7: were so secure under John Howard after port Arthur, a
30:05
Speaker 7: surprise that they do seem to have gotten a bit
30:08
Speaker 7: lax and people have been able to get around them.
30:10
Speaker 7: So it is certainly true that I think a lot
30:14
Speaker 7: of people on the left, a lot of people who
30:16
Speaker 7: I think maybe if they have the capacity to feeling
30:20
Speaker 7: a bit of shamed or embarrassed for having downplayed anti
30:24
Speaker 7: Semitism or equivocated or provide a false equivalence with Islamophobia.
30:29
Speaker 3: Expressed their regrets.
30:31
Speaker 7: No they haven't, but what they're trying to do is
30:33
Speaker 7: to change it. So actually, this is not about anti semitism.
30:35
Speaker 7: This is about access to firearms, which is a much
30:38
Speaker 7: more comfortable front for the left to play it.
30:40
Speaker 1: And again I'm not going.
30:41
Speaker 3: To name it an way. Yeah, it's another way of
30:43
Speaker 3: them just missing that's right.
30:45
Speaker 7: So I think I think that is definitely true, and
30:46
Speaker 7: I think that there's basically a lot of ass covering
30:49
Speaker 7: as well. Having said that, though it is ridiculous for
30:52
Speaker 7: someone in a suburban Sydney home to have a firearms
30:57
Speaker 7: license and six guns that could kill people, I mean
31:00
Speaker 7: that is clearly absurd, I know, but.
31:01
Speaker 2: I would say just finally on this, because I do
31:04
Speaker 2: want to move on. Whether he had one gun license
31:07
Speaker 2: to him or six. If we're minimizing the amounts, he
31:10
Speaker 2: could have still all two for one each.
31:12
Speaker 3: He could have still caused that orian exactly.
31:16
Speaker 2: And Barnaby Joyce made a great point about this at
31:19
Speaker 2: the scene of the vigil today as well, and he said,
31:21
Speaker 2: this is just going to harm farmers who have a
31:23
Speaker 2: legitimate need for firearms, and why are they being punished
31:28
Speaker 2: for this? So these people can get guns other ways
31:31
Speaker 2: through underworld sources. So I don't see how it's going
31:34
Speaker 2: to fix the problem.
31:35
Speaker 3: Let's move on.
31:36
Speaker 2: To the ABC and a daughter of another victim in
31:41
Speaker 2: this tragedy has blasted the public broadcaster during a live
31:47
Speaker 2: interview with the hosts over bias.
31:50
Speaker 3: ABC.
31:51
Speaker 6: I've got to say, will you cut out the biased reporting.
31:58
Speaker 5: Mainstream media?
31:59
Speaker 1: We?
32:00
Speaker 5: Yeah, will will you cut it out?
32:02
Speaker 1: Will you actually let us have.
32:04
Speaker 2: A voice Victoria Teplitsky, Her eighty six year old father
32:10
Speaker 2: had been shot as he tried to escape the gunman
32:14
Speaker 2: on Sunday night. I think the ABC hosts were a
32:17
Speaker 2: little taken aback Jamie because they didn't address that.
32:21
Speaker 5: Her God, they didn't say anything.
32:23
Speaker 3: They sort of what could they say, really.
32:26
Speaker 6: You say, I appreciate your feedback, we can pass it
32:29
Speaker 6: on and then move on, but just to make no
32:31
Speaker 6: mention at all.
32:33
Speaker 5: But we're not surprised.
32:35
Speaker 6: I think it's great that she went out there and
32:37
Speaker 6: said something that people have all been speaking about and
32:40
Speaker 6: I was reading, you know, recently when they're on Budzman
32:43
Speaker 6: was receiving complaints about an interview that the ABC did
32:46
Speaker 6: with the israel Deputy Foreign Minister about bias from the
32:50
Speaker 6: interviewer at the time. So I think it was great
32:52
Speaker 6: that she was very matter of fact to the ABC
32:55
Speaker 6: hosts and hopefully people are listening.
32:58
Speaker 10: Yeah.
32:58
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I've got to say.
32:59
Speaker 7: I was doing a photo shoot in Bondi on Campbell
33:03
Speaker 7: Parade not long after the October seven attacks, and I
33:09
Speaker 7: had people coming up and saying, you're not from the ABC,
33:11
Speaker 7: are you?
33:12
Speaker 1: You're not from the ABC. So there is a real.
33:14
Speaker 3: White famous enough for people know who you are.
33:16
Speaker 7: I would have thought, so, I think that's a takeover,
33:19
Speaker 7: Like don't you know who I am?
33:20
Speaker 9: I think that's exactly how you You know often you
33:24
Speaker 9: know when you you know, when you are doing something
33:27
Speaker 9: high profile, people see cameras and mics and everything, but
33:30
Speaker 9: anything can happen.
33:31
Speaker 7: There's sometimes unkindly in my view, called idiot magnets. But
33:34
Speaker 7: you're never sure what people are going to say. And
33:36
Speaker 7: it just didn't I suppose it didn't occur to me
33:39
Speaker 7: that the first thing, you know, I thought, I thought,
33:41
Speaker 7: people say, oh, yeah, you're that ahole from Sky News,
33:44
Speaker 7: are you or you know?
33:44
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. Joe Hillebrand your last ary.
33:47
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, jo love us. I'll say it's
33:50
Speaker 2: not all about us. But it has been so beautiful
33:53
Speaker 2: that so many people have come up to me and
33:56
Speaker 2: my colleagues at this vigil to thank us for our coverage.
33:59
Speaker 2: I mean, they are mourning the death of their friends
34:01
Speaker 2: and family members, but what they are just they find our.
34:05
Speaker 3: Coverage so refreshing.
34:06
Speaker 2: Because we address the issues of anti semitism front on.
34:11
Speaker 2: We are not afraid to challenge the government and our
34:13
Speaker 2: leaders and authorities on their failures on this issue, and
34:17
Speaker 2: people appreciate it and we appreciate you thanking us for
34:20
Speaker 2: it really means a lot. Let's go to some incredible
34:24
Speaker 2: dashcam footage that has emerged of the moment that a
34:29
Speaker 2: couple attempted to stop Sajid Akram. He's the older of
34:33
Speaker 2: the two gunmen on Sunday night. They tried to tackle
34:37
Speaker 2: him as he emerged armed from his car on Bonnai Beach's.
34:42
Speaker 3: Main road, Campbell Parade.
34:44
Speaker 2: This was inadvertently captured on dash camp footage by passerby
34:49
Speaker 2: and they published it to a social media site. It
34:54
Speaker 2: also shows the Islamic state flag draped over the front
34:57
Speaker 2: windscreen of the car.
34:59
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean what they always say, look for
35:01
Speaker 3: the helpers.
35:02
Speaker 2: Sadly, this man paid for this moment of bravery with
35:05
Speaker 2: his life. But incredible and he should be acknowledged to
35:09
Speaker 2: Anthony Albinezi frankly should be visiting his family members to
35:12
Speaker 2: thank him.
35:13
Speaker 3: Yeah.
35:14
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And we always talk about in the dark times,
35:17
Speaker 6: you do also see these acts of heroism which are
35:21
Speaker 6: all starting to come to light now. And this couple
35:23
Speaker 6: has been named the Australian named them about an hour ago,
35:27
Speaker 6: and there are Russian Jewish immigrants. They've been married for
35:30
Speaker 6: almost thirty five years. It was going to be their
35:32
Speaker 6: wedding anniversary in January and their Boris and Sophia German
35:36
Speaker 6: and both of them sadly lost their lives lying next
35:39
Speaker 6: to each other, which is just devastating for their families.
35:43
Speaker 6: But they went out there to try and stop the
35:45
Speaker 6: gunman before the attack started, and is believed that they
35:48
Speaker 6: were the.
35:48
Speaker 5: First two victims.
35:49
Speaker 1: Interestingly, I think all the.
35:52
Speaker 7: People we've seen so far who have had the courage
35:55
Speaker 7: to take on an armed gunment not being armed themselves,
35:57
Speaker 7: have all been older, and so I think it's interesting
36:00
Speaker 7: that there are people who know what the world is like,
36:03
Speaker 7: who know how dangerous, they can recognize this sort of
36:06
Speaker 7: stuff when they see it, and just had incredible guards.
36:09
Speaker 3: Yea incredible you know.
36:11
Speaker 2: I take my hat off to them because they would
36:14
Speaker 2: have been could be overwhelmed not only by another person.
36:18
Speaker 1: But that's right.
36:19
Speaker 7: I think it would be one of those muscle bound
36:21
Speaker 7: he men that you often see on Bundao Beach. But
36:23
Speaker 7: instead it's just ordinary people not motivated by, you know,
36:27
Speaker 7: the thought they could take them. But motivated I think
36:30
Speaker 7: by the thought that they knew they would die, but
36:32
Speaker 7: it had to be done.
36:34
Speaker 2: Incredible stories coming up after the break, we'll look at
36:37
Speaker 2: tomorrow's headlines. In the first look at the front pages,
36:41
Speaker 2: more chilling details about the terrorists.
36:50
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the late debate.
36:52
Speaker 2: Let's take a first look at tomorrow's papers now, starting
36:55
Speaker 2: with the Daily Telegraph, and they have run big with
36:58
Speaker 2: this story about the outraged grieving daughter of a victim
37:03
Speaker 2: of this Bondi massacre. The headliners blood on your hands.
37:07
Speaker 3: And as we.
37:08
Speaker 2: Revealed a little bit earlier on the show, in this interview,
37:12
Speaker 2: this daughter of one of the victims, Reuven Morrison, who
37:18
Speaker 2: had spent his final moments throwing bricks at the shooter,
37:21
Speaker 2: Sajid Akram. She said that the government had blood on
37:26
Speaker 2: its hands and that it had watched hatred grow and
37:29
Speaker 2: chose to do nothing. But also in this paper we
37:33
Speaker 2: have this incredible exclusive that will be out tomorrow and
37:37
Speaker 2: this is all about new details about the shooter, the shooters.
37:43
Speaker 2: Now one of those details you can see on the
37:46
Speaker 2: front page, probably not because this print is so small,
37:49
Speaker 2: but the headline shooters home Truth and it goes into
37:53
Speaker 2: how financial records indicate that the father in this father
37:59
Speaker 2: son duo could have been preparing for the attack for
38:04
Speaker 2: two years.
38:06
Speaker 3: And had moved to ensure his wife did.
38:10
Speaker 2: Not lose their home by transferring the property of their
38:14
Speaker 2: Bonnie Rig home in Southwest Sydney into her name.
38:17
Speaker 3: So this happened two years before the attack, and.
38:19
Speaker 2: Obviously that raises questions over whether that or had to
38:23
Speaker 2: do with this attack that he was planning. On top
38:26
Speaker 2: of that, The Telegraph has been reporting late this evening
38:31
Speaker 2: online in a story that will no doubt be in
38:34
Speaker 2: the paper tomorrow, that they can confirm that the terrorists
38:37
Speaker 2: received military training in the Philippines and had entered the
38:41
Speaker 2: country near an Islamic state hotspot just weeks before this attack. Joe,
38:48
Speaker 2: I mean, pretty incriminating that this seems to have been
38:53
Speaker 2: planned for some time.
38:54
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely terrifying. And again one of the details of
38:58
Speaker 7: the dashcam footage that mentioned in the previous segment was
39:02
Speaker 7: that there was an Islamic state flag draped on one
39:05
Speaker 7: of the terrorist cars, which again goes to show that
39:09
Speaker 7: you know, people, and lord knows they've been trying to
39:12
Speaker 7: do it for a long time, but people who sort
39:14
Speaker 7: of right this eye these are just a couple of crazies,
39:16
Speaker 7: or this is just a lone wolf attack. We know
39:20
Speaker 7: in fact that Islamic State, even though it is pretty
39:23
Speaker 7: much a ghost shell of what it was, is still
39:26
Speaker 7: using that same rhetoric, that same inflammatory sort of mental
39:31
Speaker 7: programming to brainwash people, to get them fired up, to
39:34
Speaker 7: get them angry enough to kill, to lure them. And now,
39:37
Speaker 7: of course it seems according to the telly that you know,
39:40
Speaker 7: these guys have actually taken the bait all the way
39:43
Speaker 7: to Islamic State or ISIS affiliated training camps in the Philippines.
39:48
Speaker 7: You get indoctrinated with the ideology, you get indoctrinated with
39:51
Speaker 7: the training. Have to say though just one you know,
39:56
Speaker 7: only how piss week did.
39:58
Speaker 1: All of them look?
39:59
Speaker 7: Once even older people rose up, and how to go
40:03
Speaker 7: at them like, you know, they think they're big, tough marchment.
40:06
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm going to go to the training that
40:08
Speaker 1: I've got my big.
40:09
Speaker 7: Gun and everything. And yet even when challenged by an
40:12
Speaker 7: older person. I mean the scenes where Arkhmed jumped on
40:18
Speaker 7: the guy and the guy just sort of like he's
40:22
Speaker 7: clearly just so stupid way.
40:24
Speaker 6: Because his son was pointing the gun towards them, yeah,
40:28
Speaker 6: he knew that his son was.
40:30
Speaker 7: Yeah, but just they didn't seem to be. It wasn't
40:33
Speaker 7: exactly a sort of commando role, I thought. I just
40:36
Speaker 7: I just sort of thought these it was almost as
40:39
Speaker 7: though they were in some kind of hypnotics sort of start,
40:42
Speaker 7: and as soon as it was disrupted, they almost sort
40:44
Speaker 7: of didn't.
40:44
Speaker 1: Know what to do.
40:47
Speaker 2: It's interesting too that in the article that's online tonight,
40:52
Speaker 2: the Telegraphs quoted terrorism expert Greg Barton, who's been on
40:55
Speaker 2: Sky News. He said that it's likely the pair met
40:59
Speaker 2: was senior to error figures to discuss their plans in
41:01
Speaker 2: the Philippines. One giveaway is that there were two unexploded
41:06
Speaker 2: devices that had been found in the car found at
41:10
Speaker 2: the scene and another in the car.
41:12
Speaker 3: How did they know how to make these bombs? They
41:15
Speaker 3: must have had some sort of training and instruction from somewhere.
41:20
Speaker 7: As part of it is very much part of a
41:23
Speaker 7: radical Islamist ideology, ideology that is deliberately being spread again.
41:28
Speaker 7: Many of my friends are Muslims, moderate Muslims, wonderful people.
41:32
Speaker 3: I arguing himself that we even have to go, we
41:35
Speaker 3: should have to under but we have.
41:38
Speaker 7: To sort of I suppose say it because you cannot
41:40
Speaker 7: let radical Islam, Islamic fundamentalism off the hook for this,
41:45
Speaker 7: because it's clearly related.
41:46
Speaker 1: It's not just the.
41:48
Speaker 2: Who's the amazing Muslim gp on two GB Radio nine
41:53
Speaker 2: radio earlier and he was saying he was calling for
41:56
Speaker 2: these terrorists not to have Islamic burial, that they don't
42:00
Speaker 2: deserve that right. I'm not sure where that proposal had
42:03
Speaker 2: got to, but I think that's the right call and
42:06
Speaker 2: would really send a message that the mainstream of the
42:10
Speaker 2: community doesn't accept this yea.
42:13
Speaker 1: And that needs to be shown.
42:14
Speaker 7: I think these people are not even human, let alone
42:16
Speaker 7: people of faith. The odds now and it has obviously
42:20
Speaker 7: just taken out the entire front page saying National security
42:26
Speaker 7: luminaries clarion call on anti Semitism fight defining test of
42:31
Speaker 7: PM nation and Jeff Chambers and Amanda Hodge have got
42:35
Speaker 7: a great exclusive where they've spoken to three of the
42:38
Speaker 7: most distinguished anti terrorism and security and intelligence chiefs.
42:42
Speaker 1: I'll read it out for you.
42:44
Speaker 7: Australia's three most distinguished security and intelligence chiefs have warned
42:47
Speaker 7: that the nation is at a turning point and gun
42:50
Speaker 7: reforms alone, and again, as we talked about earlier, will
42:53
Speaker 7: not stamp out anti Semitism or deadly extremist ideologies. As
42:58
Speaker 7: anti Albanizi faces pressure to dem quote fear, hatred.
43:01
Speaker 1: And anger in the community.
43:03
Speaker 7: Former intelligence and defense heads Nick Warner, Duncan Lewis, and
43:07
Speaker 7: Dennis Richardson, who worked under Labor and the Coalition over decades,
43:11
Speaker 7: have called on federal and state governments to urgently ramp
43:14
Speaker 7: up their focus on directly addressing the scourge of rising
43:18
Speaker 7: anti semitism across the nation. And again, any student of
43:22
Speaker 7: history knows what happens when you let this cat out
43:26
Speaker 7: of the bag, once you start letting people spread this
43:30
Speaker 7: vile kind of hatred that is incredibly specific towards Jewish people,
43:35
Speaker 7: it takes a far uglier turn than in other cases.
43:40
Speaker 7: And that's obviously what these the top security and intelligence
43:43
Speaker 7: brains are saying.
43:44
Speaker 6: And as we were talking about earlier that yes, I'm
43:47
Speaker 6: sure there's a need to tighten up gun reform, but
43:50
Speaker 6: that's not something that you want to be putting as
43:53
Speaker 6: a focus over the top of antisemitism and in particular
43:56
Speaker 6: the rise of the anti Semitism that we have seen
43:58
Speaker 6: in this country over the past few years.
44:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when you're hearing it from our intelligence chiefs.
44:04
Speaker 2: The government really needs to sit up and listen here.
44:07
Speaker 2: But they have only been warning that a threat is imminent.
44:12
Speaker 7: Before they have been the way I suppose this is
44:16
Speaker 7: just the mother of all proof that these fears have
44:20
Speaker 7: been well found.
44:21
Speaker 6: Yeah. Absolutely, Well, let's look at the front page now
44:24
Speaker 6: for the Canberra Times and it is Susan Lee that's
44:28
Speaker 6: making front page news where Lee reveals new task force.
44:33
Speaker 6: So Opposition leader Susan Lee is ramping up pressure on
44:36
Speaker 6: Prime Minister Anthony Alberizi over his handling of anti Semitism,
44:40
Speaker 6: appointing a new coalition task force to push for stronger
44:44
Speaker 6: measures to stamp out hate. Miss Lee has said for
44:47
Speaker 6: too long, anti Semitism has been allowed to grow in
44:50
Speaker 6: plain sight. Miss Alberonizi has defended his record in the
44:54
Speaker 6: wake of the Bondai Beach terrorist attack and sought to
44:56
Speaker 6: neutralize the opposition's attack, saying this is not a time
45:00
Speaker 6: for politics, this is a time for national unity.
45:03
Speaker 5: But of course he's going to say.
45:04
Speaker 6: That because the Coalition have come out and have been
45:07
Speaker 6: very strong. They're going to be meeting with Jillian Siegel
45:10
Speaker 6: tomorrow to work out how to implement the plan that
45:14
Speaker 6: the Albanezi government should have been doing over the past
45:16
Speaker 6: five months, and they haven't, or.
45:18
Speaker 2: The reports still sitting on the table. It just drives
45:21
Speaker 2: me to the point of insanity. It is so you know,
45:26
Speaker 2: they appointed this envoy, Joe this envoid to deal with
45:31
Speaker 2: anti Semitism, and then they didn't listen to what she
45:33
Speaker 2: actually had to tell them.
45:35
Speaker 7: I think there has been as I've said, there's been
45:37
Speaker 7: a failure to grasp.
45:38
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a lack of maturity among.
45:40
Speaker 7: You know, fairly young, but there's a failure to grasp
45:43
Speaker 7: just how deadly and serious anti Semitism.
45:47
Speaker 2: I don't think there's a failure. Let's not treat them
45:49
Speaker 2: as ignorant. I think there's at the core of who
45:52
Speaker 2: Anthony Albernizi is is he is still that pro Palestinian
45:56
Speaker 2: supporting student activist that he is.
46:00
Speaker 7: Hasen since then, but there was a problem certainly in
46:02
Speaker 7: the left and parts of the left of the Labor
46:04
Speaker 7: Party as well, where it simply just is not taken seriously,
46:07
Speaker 7: and dare I say it, even when sometimes it is acknowledged,
46:11
Speaker 7: it's kind of thought of as well. And that's nothing
46:13
Speaker 7: compared to what evil Israel is doing, so let's just
46:15
Speaker 7: ignore it.
46:16
Speaker 3: So hopeless has.
46:17
Speaker 2: Been strong, but they're not likely to come into leadership
46:19
Speaker 2: soon anytime, so it's all a pipe dream for now. Unfortunately,
46:23
Speaker 2: Let's quickly go to the Herald Sun and they've got
46:26
Speaker 2: another powerful front page showing a shot from a still
46:32
Speaker 2: from that dramatic dash cam footage we brought you earlier
46:36
Speaker 2: of these two people, Sofia Sofia and Boris German, who
46:42
Speaker 2: died side by side after they tried to take down
46:47
Speaker 2: one of the gunmen.
46:49
Speaker 3: They are believed to be the first victims here.
46:51
Speaker 2: It also mentions the Melbourne man Reuven Morrison, who was
46:57
Speaker 2: who had thrown the bricks at the terrace and who's
47:00
Speaker 2: daughter has bravely spoke out.
47:01
Speaker 3: We'll go to a break.
47:02
Speaker 2: And when we come back we have some heartwarming stories
47:07
Speaker 2: to bring you after all that heaviness and darkness, so
47:10
Speaker 2: stay tuned, welcome.
47:16
Speaker 3: Back to the Late Debate.
47:17
Speaker 2: Now to end the show, we've got a couple of
47:19
Speaker 2: stories that we hope uplifts you as we finish another
47:24
Speaker 2: very heavy and dark day in Australia.
47:27
Speaker 3: The first is a heartfelt video that has.
47:29
Speaker 2: Been going viral online and it's all the way from
47:32
Speaker 2: Atlanta in the US, and it shows a meeting between
47:36
Speaker 2: a rabbi and a Muslim man.
47:39
Speaker 1: So everything that happened over real life. Oh, Sydney, appreciate it.
47:43
Speaker 1: Appreciate you seeing that you celebrate Muslim the Muslim.
47:47
Speaker 11: Yeah, look the fact that you were seeing that, you
47:52
Speaker 11: know in the Jewish community.
47:53
Speaker 1: I got it all the time, but it's the first
47:55
Speaker 1: time I got it from a Muslim. So so much.
47:58
Speaker 3: We're all in this together, We're in this in the
48:00
Speaker 3: same world we are.
48:01
Speaker 11: Let's just peace and love.
48:05
Speaker 1: Thank you.
48:06
Speaker 11: What's your name, Rabbi levk No pleasure.
48:13
Speaker 3: No Jamie.
48:14
Speaker 2: I woke up and I saw this on my phone.
48:16
Speaker 2: The algorithm had fed it to me. For once, the
48:19
Speaker 2: algorithm did something right, and it was just a beautiful moment.
48:24
Speaker 5: You're so right. I was exactly the same.
48:26
Speaker 6: It came through my algorithm and I looked at it
48:28
Speaker 6: and I thought, oh, I have got faith in humanity.
48:31
Speaker 6: And that video had fourteen million views in just one day.
48:34
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's so important. We cannot let a race war
48:37
Speaker 7: or a religious war start in this country. That would
48:40
Speaker 7: be the only thing more tragic than the tragedy that's
48:43
Speaker 7: already happened, so we've got to hold it together and
48:46
Speaker 7: look out for each other and love each.
48:47
Speaker 2: Other, yes, but still tackle radical is absolutely Joe Jamie,
48:51
Speaker 2: thank you so much and thank you for your company tonight,
48:54
Speaker 2: pushing you lots of strength and we're all in this
48:57
Speaker 2: together to bring us out.
48:58
Speaker 3: Of the show.
48:59
Speaker 2: I just want to show you acquired and attended the
49:01
Speaker 2: Bondie Virgil tonight.
49:04
Speaker 10: Oh