Latest / The Lauren Castle Show / How This Pharmacist Built a Career in Functional Medicine (And How You Can Too)

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How This Pharmacist Built a Career in Functional Medicine (And How You Can Too) · The Lauren Castle Show

• speaker-0: I would rather be patient facing. I would rather be talking to my patients. I would rather be holding someone's hand when they tell me they've had a scary diagnosis and they're like, ⁓ my gosh, I don't I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't wanna take this medication. I would rather sit there and hold space for that patient and say, All right, let's talk about it and let's un let's unpack this and let's find the care that aligns for you. You're scared of this medication? That's okay. Let's find out what are you scared of? What are some ways that we can make that fear less? And is this the care that's really aligned for you? Talk to the patient. Well, did the doctor give you XYZ other options? You don't have to take this prescription off my counter today. It will be here next week and we've got time to talk about it. speaker-1: Welcome to the Loren Castle Show, a podcast for people on a path to well-being, body, mind, heart, and soul. Join us for conversations at the intersection of pharmacy, functional medicine, and psychedelics. My hope is that each episode will leave you feeling inspired to step into your power, speak your truth, and live your most authentic life. Let's begin. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Lauren Castle Show. I am so excited for today's episode because I have my very first guest interview with a dear friend, Dr. Veronica Riera Gilly. And honestly, when I thought about starting this podcast, it was with the intention to do interviews with all of the functional pharmacists that I have met in my 10 plus years in this space. And so to finally be doing my first interview is just so exciting because yes, I have a story to tell about functional medicine and I have all sorts of lessons that I've learned over the years. But even more exciting, and I think more important to me is all of the amazing people that I've met along this journey and how each person has played a role in shaping FMPHA into what it has become and shaping. my journey and being a part of my story just as much as I hope I've been a part of theirs. And we're all just working together, right? We're all just on this journey, on this path, figuring it out one day at a time. And when we can actually share our stories, we learn from each other and we all grow together faster. So I'm just thrilled to bring my first guest onto the show. So, Dr. Veronica Riera-Gilly, I will have you just dive right in with some introduction. Tell us your background. And, you know, I want to take people on the journey, right? I think each of us has a story to tell about our journey from becoming a pharmacist to discovering functional medicine and how that has shaped where you are today and what you're doing. And we have exciting plans ahead for your role with FMPHA. So let's take us back to the beginning. How did you choose to become a pharmacist? speaker-0: I knew that I wanted to be a pharmacist after we had something tragic happened with a family friend. We had a family friend who was in a car accident. She had a traumatic brain injury and was then put on this long laundry list of medications and she went to her doctor and said, I don't feel like myself. I don't feel good. I don't want to continue like this. And the doctors told her This is your new normal, deal with it. So without any sort of guidance, she discontinued all of her medications at once. And a short time thereafter, she died from suicide. And that was really devastating. I was probably in seventh grade or so when that happened, and it was it was unreal. And I don't think I knew at the time that that happened that I wanted to be a pharmacist, but later on as I was learning about careers, I came across pharmacy and I realized that's the person who knows the most about medications and that's probably the healthcare provider that this family friend needed that could help guide the situation. And That's what brought me into pharmacy was the loss of someone. And it's been very interesting that throughout my whole growth as a pharmacist, there've been a lot of deaths to teach me. And Yeah, I want to be the kind of healthcare provider that our family friend needed. And to be able to say, medications aren't always the way. And maybe there's another way. Maybe it's another medication. So maybe we switch medications. Maybe it's we try something lifestyle. We try an alternative medicine. We try an herb. The thing that didn't happen with our family friend was they weren't heard. That The healthcare they were receiving wasn't working for them. And they wanted something different and they needed a healthcare provider to work with them to find the right care instead of just saying, This is your new normal, deal with it. No one should ever be told that in any situation, because there's always something else that you can do. speaker-1: That's such a powerful story. And honestly, I did not know this about you. You know, we were just chatting right before we started recording and kind of prepping for this. And I was like, whoa, after all this time of knowing you and knowing so much about how death and dying, whenever I met you, was exactly where I was in my journey of my mom passing away and really struggling with grief and just feeling so like my world was falling apart. Right. Like, To have that exposure to something like that at such an early age in your life, you know, I think it does, it changes and shapes your perception of the world and like what our purpose is. And I think that's just so powerful and such a powerful story. You know, we all get into this profession to help people, but the the deeper reasons why like never cease to amaze me. And so thank you for sharing that. I know it can be really difficult and challenging whenever we reflect back on some of these moments in our life that are so painful. And yet we have to turn that into something beautiful and something that can help other people and impact other people. So I appreciate your honesty with that. I'm also curious how you kind of found your footing in the pharmacy world. You know, obviously we're on the show to talk about functional medicine, but there's usually a bridge there from getting into pharmacy and it being maybe what we hoped and dreamed for, or maybe not. So tell us a little bit about your background in pharmacy and then what that transition into functional medicine looked like. speaker-0: got into practice and was gung-ho on helping everybody, counseling everybody and and helping them not need medications, and then realizing I didn't really have the tools to help them not need medications. We were taught in school that lifestyle and food are primary medicines and medications come secondary to trying all those lifestyle pieces. But then when I went to go counsel people about that, I realized I didn't really know anything about that. So that learning more about that comes later in my journey. And I think I should start here telling you that I went to a yoga class and my entire spine realigned itself in that class. It was amazing. And this was so powerful for me because I'd had a low back injury in college. I had a repelling accident, was dropped ⁓ a good number of feet because I did not have a good ballet. And ⁓ it's someone that I know, so I don't I don't blame them if they're listening to this. No hard feelings there. ⁓ I think that that injury was was actually a gift. It ⁓ the pain that I went through because of that injury gave me a lot more compassion for my patients and I'm able to say that I really know what you're going through when you're dealing with pain. And that's been really helpful. But after that yoga class, I thought, my body feels fantastic and I just kept consuming more and more yoga classes and finally I just went and got a yoga teacher certification because I wanted to know what is this thing that is providing me more relief than any prescription drugs. And I wasn't taking very many prescription drugs for the pain that I was experiencing, in part because I know what they do to your body and I know the side effects and the long term effects. But also I made a choice not to use any opioid medications. Because I didn't want to be under any extra scrutiny in the profession. I I don't know if there's a stigma. I I don't stigmatize anyone, but I was really paranoid that ⁓ if they knew that I had a prescription for hydrocodone, that I would just be under more scrutiny at the pharmacy and I didn't want it. So I chose not to use any opioids, even at the worst of things. And in my yoga teacher training, I realized everything that I was learning were things that I needed to share with my patients. That these were things that could really help them with what was going on. And at the end of a yoga teacher training or to finish up your certificate, you have to get karma hours where you teach free classes in the community. And I didn't know where I was going to teach these. And my husband used to work for a hospital system. And he knew their volunteer coordinator for the senior circle. The senior circle is a volunteer organization that helps keep seniors active. They organize lunch and learns and travel, and it's it's a really great thing for seniors to be involved in and stay active and connected. Community is so important. So I called up their volunteer coordinator and I said, Hey, can I teach these karma classes at the hospital to older adults? And I had 30 people. show up for my first class. And we taught chair yoga. And we had so much fun. After the six weeks had ended, the idea was mainly that we would work out some sort of deal with the hospital and I would be paid for that. But they ended up saying, no, you did this in a volunteer capacity. We're just going to continue having you do that in a volunteer capacity. And and that was okay because I learned later I did take some paid yoga teaching jobs and I did not enjoy those in the same way that I did when I was just teaching because I wanted to. And I went on to teach that class for the senior circle for nine more years. speaker-1: Whoa. speaker-0: Yes. And during that time is when I realized I wanted to specialize in geriatrics because everyone in my class was sixty five or older. My oldest student was ninety six. And I loved hearing the stories that they told me. I would hear things like, Veronica, that deep breathing that you taught us, I didn't need to take volume before I went to the dentist. I had another woman who said, I remembered that when you were telling us about our breath, that our breath doesn't lie. And I was having the shortness of breath and she was an asthmatic, and she knows her triggers. And she said, I was short of breath, but I I thought through things. I shouldn't be short of breath. I haven't been exposed to any of my normal triggers, so she went to her doctor. She was an AFib. speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh. speaker-0: And I thought, what a powerful story for her to tell me. And she said, Thank you, you saved my life. She goes, What if I had just kept using my asthma inhaler, not getting relief? And then she could have thrown a clot. But instead we found it earlier and they were able to to make the appropriate interventions and she's doing well. And I just kept hearing stories like that. And it was really it it just fills your cup to know that you're helping people in such a meaningful way. And it's not involving drugs. I had another patient who had asthma and she said, Anytime I feel panicky and short of breath and I know I've taken my treatment and I just need to give it time to work, she says, I can sit still and I can do that deep breathing and I'm okay. So the yoga teacher training, I never took it with the intent to teach. I took it because I wanted to know what is it about these classes that's offering me so much relief. And then it it turned into this really fun ⁓ nine year volunteer gig. And I I taught that class all the way until my husband got a new job and we relocated cities. I I would probably still be teaching that class if we were still living in that city. Those ladies Still contact me. ⁓ it's so much fun. One of them even joined me with her great-grandson to watch the eclipse. Wow. In 24, for the total eclipse, I rented a cabin in Burleson, Texas. And one of my former yoga students, with her great-grandson, came and stayed with us in the cabin so we could all watch Totality together. And like, how cool is that? speaker-1: That's amazing. Like so beautiful. speaker-0: And yoga is my segue into functional medicine. But if you have another question, I'm gonna let you go. speaker-1: No, that that was gonna be exactly it, right? Is, you know, I I want to take the time to like dig deep into these really meaningful stories. Like you can feel the care and the love that you have for these humans that you've made these lifelong impacts on. And I think so often in healthcare and in pharmacy, right? Again, we get into this profession for that very reason. And somehow over the course of our careers. As pressure starts to mount and you know, workplace stress starts to build up and there's pressure to do more with less and all of these things, right? Like you said, your cup gets so full from doing this amazing work. And at some point, the cup starts to spill, but not because it's overflowing, right? Because it's just getting emptied. And I think that is where things like yoga and functional medicine. can be so complementary to our skills and abilities as pharmacists. And, you know, a lot of times I think pharmacists, they have this like vision of what functional medicine is supposed to look like. And I think conversations like this just go to show that like functional medicine is multifaceted, right? In it, we're talking about things like movement. And so if that movement specialty for you is something like yoga, we have so many yoga teacher-trained pharmacists in our community, like I did mine. I know some of our state leaders have done theirs. Like it really is a very beautiful segue to translate, you know, a very important lifestyle change with our patients. And to be able to deliver that through, you know, nine years of classes is amazing. So yeah, tell us then how did the functional medicine start to come into the picture, right? Like I'm already I'm I'm trying to get people to pick up on the golden thread in everybody's story because sometimes when we're living it, we don't quite realize that like, ⁓ life is taking us exactly where we need to go. Right. And like every piece of the puzzle, every step along the way is putting you into a path that no one else is gonna be able to copy. No one else is gonna have the same exact story that you have. So we're hearing Early exposure to death and dying, we're hearing yoga teacher training and now more with functional medicine. speaker-0: Yeah, well, yoga is the thing that brought me to functional medicine. I went to a yoga journal conference in Wisconsin, and the keynote speaker was Dr. James Gordon, who founded the Center for Mind Body Medicine. And I heard him speak about his food as medicine conference or food as medicine professional nutrition training. And Mark Hyman was the medical director of education for him. And I went to that conference and that was my first exposure to functional medicine. So I heard James Gordon speak about this event at the yoga conference. And the moment I heard, I thought, I have to go. And I booked it. It was that summer. I took my best friend, who's also a pharmacist, took her with me. We took it together. And it absolutely rocked my world. That was the first time I'd heard the words functional medicine. And everyone was talking about. How do we get patients off drugs and polypharmacy? And it's such a problem. And there were three pharmacists at the conference. Total. Me, Kim, and one other pharmacist. And we would go and talk to people in small groups. And they're like, Well, why are you here? You just want to push pills. And we said, No, we're here because this is the answer to polypharmacy. When we ask, why is your blood pressure high rather than just giving you a pill to bring it down? That's how we solve this polypharmacy problem is we continually ask why. And it's appropriate to have drugs on board at different times, but we always need to ask why, why are we using it? And what are we doing to help get ourselves off of it? And maybe, depending on what it is, maybe we never do get off that drug. But if we're making all of those lifestyle changes and stress reduction changes. movement changes, food changes, we're doing all those things. Maybe we need a lesser dose. And I tell my patients that that's a win if we're doing all of these things and we need a lesser dose. That's less for your body to process, less potential for drug interaction if we're not operating like at the max dose. So it's it's all helpful, even if we don't get off of the drug, it we're still doing great work. And all of these things support our health. And we find that, you know, there's studies for patients who are overweight or even obese. When we look at their mortality and morbidity, if they have healthy habits, even if they're still overweight, but they're engaging in regular movement, they have quit using certain substances and they're addressing the emotional stressors in their life, they have better health outcomes. They have better longevity. They have less mortality related to whatever conditions they have because they're making, they're making changes. So we don't have to do it perfectly. And all of it matters. And I think that's really exciting and something that we can encourage our patients in. That just because the number on the scale doesn't read what society tells us, you know, if it's not as small as society tells us it should be, we're still doing great work for our bodies. And we're investing in ourselves in a really meaningful way. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. So you went from this conference getting to hear Mark Raymond speak, getting to understand like what's this functional medicine all about? What was your sort of next step in the journey then? Cause I think that light bulb moment is always something that we remember and we never really forget. But then, you know, for a lot of pharmacists that might be listening to this for the first time, they're sort of trying to figure out what is my next step? Like, how do I get trained in this or how do I apply this as a pharmacist? Or can I bring this into my work? So tell us about that next step. speaker-0: I just was looking for any education that I could find, whether that was I went to Food as Medicine a second time when they had a focus on women's health, so I made sure to attend that. Doctor ⁓ what is her name? Aviva Ram. She was the keynote speaker at the women's health event, and that was amazing. Trying to think of what other conferences I went to. I went to a plane tree conference. Are you familiar with Plane Tree? speaker-1: Not, tell me more. speaker-0: Plain Tree is an organization that certifies hospitals and health systems for integrative care. And they have a a big conference for I did not realize it when I went, but it's for Plain Tree organizations. People go there to learn different principles in delivering integrative care. And I just went as an individual. I bought a ticket, showed up to learn. And everyone kept asking me, What what hospital system are you with? I'm like, I'm not with anybody. I just wanted to learn. So that was a really fun experience and it was really neat to see what Plain Tree is doing to bring integrative care. And I learned about Plain Tree by reading a book from Dr. James Gordon. He wrote The Manifesto for a New Medicine and he talks about Plain Tree in that book. And so once I read about it in that book, then I had to go check it out. And I told my husband, if we ever move to a location that has a plain tree. certified organization there, the I'm gonna go work for them. And if we had stayed where we were, I was working on site at the hospital where I was teaching yoga. I started out just volunteering there. And then many years later I did end up getting employment with them and was there for about five years before my husband's job took us away from there. But had we stayed there, I probably would have been the champion for can we get this hospital certified as a plant tree organization? speaker-1: Yeah. So the universe obviously had other plans. where else has it taken you? And, you know, tell us more about sort of how you started to incorporate functional medicine after you kind of got more familiar with it. what did that look like in your practice? ⁓ and in other ways that you've been involved. speaker-0: I felt like my integrating functional medicine was more just in counseling and we had a very chatty yoga class and so I spent a couple hours a week with the w it was mostly women. I say ladies. I had one gentleman who came to my class and he came with his wife and he was a really sweet gentleman. ⁓ it started there where we would just have a very chatty yoga class. It w it wasn't the typical quiet yoga class I think that a lot of us think of when we go maybe and take a yoga class, say in a studio. And I learned that the social piece was the most important part. And a lot of these ladies not a lot, but a handful would show up just for shivasana. to the the end rest at the end of class. They would show up just for that. But then I learned that these ladies were going to coffee after class. It was this whole Monday ritual to start their week with the yoga classes. And so in the in the chattiness of these groups, because it was a very it was a very social group, we would just talk about they would ask me their drug questions and I would answer. And that's where I started figuring out where to incor incorporate the different functional medicine principles that I'm learning when they're asking me these questions. And if I didn't know, I'd go home and look up look up the answer. And it led me to find some other pharmacists like Susie Susie Cohen. She wrote Drug Muggers. That was my first exposure to drug-induced nutrient depletion. And I'm trying to think where I first came across Jim Laval. If I came across Tim before my first orthomolecular conference. But he's another great resource on drug induced nutrient depletion. And that was something we didn't talk about a lot in pharmacy school. We mention that ⁓ we know corticosteroids can deplete you of these things. We know PPIs, but it it took on a whole new importance once I learned the functional medicine lens and really started asking why. Like it's it's not it's not okay that we're just like, yeah, we reduce your stomach acid and you're gonna reduce your minerals and just be aware of it. Like, no. it it's really important. And there's so much that we can do to help improve our patients' health when we think about what are these depleting and why and can we get to the root cause to get rid of this medication so we don't have this ongoing depletion. I think that's the thing that I found to be missing was this urgency around let's resolve the need for the drug so that we don't have this ongoing depletion. Yes, we can replete those nutrients. We can give you something for it, but isn't it better to get rid of the cause of the depletion rather than just give you more vitamins? speaker-1: Yeah, I totally agree. I think that often can be sort of a a hinge point with functional medicine and integrative medicine and all of these things, right? Is like the bridge to get from, you know, being just on a medication that's causing nutrient depletions to then having to add temporarily more pills to minimize the effects of what happens when those nutrients get depleted. You know, obviously ideally if we can do it with food, great, but Some of these can be pretty potent. ⁓ so being able to measure and like actually track and look at these things. And then, like you said, continue the lifestyle changes, to continue to work on the root causes and hopefully be able to lower doses because that makes a difference. It really does. so I love that. So you're still teaching yoga, you're kind of integrating corp, you know, the functional medicine into there. how did you start to get more involved with? F and P H A and with ASCP, you know, I know that that was sort of how we got connected. And I'm curious, you know, from your perspective, how that played a role and like what you were doing at the time and and where you were going in this journey. speaker-0: My best friend Kim, who's an FMPHA member, she works for Somebody in Tennessee, that's another one of our members, I love our group. There's so many cool connections. But before before Kim was even living in Tennessee, she found that you were having a big meeting to just start FMPHA. It was that first meeting, and I had to miss it for some reason. But she was the one that came across to you and said, Hey, we need to pay attention to this. And I think she and I had both been looking for a place to plug in and there just there wasn't a place for pharmacists and then she found it and put it on my radar. And so shortly after that I joined the Facebook group and you and I met because you put a shout out in the Facebook group to say, hey, I've been given this opportunity, but I need a co presenter who's at BCGP. And ASCP, that's the American Society of Consultant Pharmacists. And I've been a member with them Sense. I don't know, twenty nineteen maybe? It seems like that's the same year that we did our presentation. Was it twenty nineteen? speaker-1: I think it was, yeah. It was between like twenty eighteen and nineteen. So yeah. speaker-0: So I had just started getting involved with them in 2019 because they had their conference in Dallas. So I was able to drive. I didn't have to get a hotel and was checking it out. And they had really great education, great people. And since I was a BCGP, that was a great place to get my credits. When you have a board certification, you've got to get those specialty recertification credits. And I'd done A recertification package with ASHP. And I didn't I didn't really like the content and the the drops. Didn't work well for for me. I'm sure it's it's a great program. It just wasn't ideal for me. And I liked ASCP's content. I liked their drop schedule better. All just all the things were a better fit. And so that's where I wanted to go for maintaining my BCGP or board certification in geriatrics. And ASCP requires that if you're not a BCGP pharmacist, if you want to present, you have to have a co presenter who's a BCGP. And I guess that's just to make sure that it really meets the needs of the geriatric population and that it that they feel that it's relevant. So I raised my hand. I said, Hey, I'm a B C G P. What do want to do? And the rest is history. speaker-1: Yeah. Yes. That was definitely amazing. Cause I I felt like I was in over my head at that point. Like they had reached out to me or an Albert shout out had said, like, hey, we want to do this functional medicine webinar with you. And I was like, Okay, cool. And yeah, I'll just never forget when you like jumped in and started helping me make the slides and the way that your brain looked at functional medicine through this like geriatric lens and aging lens and the way that your physiology changes as you age. I was like, ⁓ my gosh, this is so cool. Like I love how you can apply functional medicine to all of these different specialty areas. And again, for anyone listening to this podcast that's not a pharmacist, that might be new information for you that pharmacists can go through board certification to s to actually specialize in different areas. So things like geriatrics or psychiatry or cardiovascular, there's infectious disease, like all these different types of of specialties that pharmacists can have. And so yeah, it was just amazing like the depth that we were able to go into with that one webinar and ultimately led to another opportunity to actually present at the national ASCP meeting, which you totally spearheaded. And then I got to be the one to just tag along and say like, yay, how exciting is this? Right. Like functional medicine is now on the national stage at a pharmacy event. And For me, that was like such a full circle moment because when we first started FMPHA, like we tried to get into some pharmacy meetings and basically were like shut down and just said, No, like we don't feel like there's enough evidence to support this right now, or there's not enough interest. And so when ASCP said yes, it like we see the value in this and we see how functional medicine could be beneficial. You know, it just was really exciting. So share a little bit more about, you know, where that has sort of led after, you know, we did that presentation. you know, we started getting you more involved with F and PHA. You know, I think around that same time we were kind of just getting our boot camp program up and running. We were migrating course platforms, membership platforms, and Yeah, I think you were sort of also in different career transitions too over these years, you know, between different hospital jobs, independent pharmacy jobs, consulting work, you know, all the different things that you've you've been able to do and now sort of adding in F and PHA to the mix. speaker-0: Well, my interest in functional medicine proved to be really helpful in the independent space because I was able to really help support their supplement sales, having a really good understanding of all the different things they had on their shelf. And I would always counsel on drug induced nutrient depletion, every patient, every time, and help them with their MTMs. And once you learn the functional medicine lens, it permeates everything that you do. So I feel like everyone gets a functional medicine, a functional focused medication review from me. We're not doing a full functional medicine workup, but that lens is still there. And we talk about lots of things that come back to the root cause. And I give my patients a lot of lifestyle recommendations inside of an MTM. And that was really valuable. The pharmacy owner. really appreciated that and was excited that supplements and I wasn't selling supplements because I'm trying to increase sales. I'm only recommending things if I really think that the patient needs it and will benefit them. But the patients understood the importance because I would it tell them why. This is why I want you to take this and this is the specified time. This isn't going to be forever. And patients really appreciated that. And so we we had a really big increase in sales while I was ⁓ doing some relief work and doing MTM work. speaker-1: I think that's amazing. I wanna like highlight that just for a second too, because I think sometimes in this conversation, again, like I'm always thinking about who's listening to this podcast, whether you're a pharmacist, a patient, or a practitioner. Sales in healthcare tends to be a dirty word. In an ideal world, healthcare would not be a business. It would be a human right. That is like a core foundational belief that I have and that. is sort of the foundation of what we do in FMPHA. And that is not the world that we live in today. So we all got into this healing profession and at the same time have families to support and needs to meet for ourselves. And so I often take a step back and really ask, you know, if money was no issue, like what would we all be wanting to do? And Then how can we sort of just take away that that feeling of guilt almost that I think sometimes comes with it, you know, to say that like money is just currency, right? That's another synonym for it. Currency is just energy, like a current traveling, right, through electric. It's energy. And so when we talk about sales, we're talking about an energy exchange. You know, if we're talking about a high quality professional grade supplement, that yes, maybe it costs thirty, forty, fifty dollars compared to a lower quality product on the shelf that is actually not going to have the same benefit, like it makes sense, right? We as healthcare professionals are doing a disservice to our patients whenever we are not educated on the difference in supplements. And that is where this myth Or this, you know, sort of, ⁓ supplements just create expensive urine, right? Like if you heard that in pharmacy school 10, 20 years ago, I hope that is not still being like perpetuated in today's world because it's false. If if you're using poor quality supplements, then yes, you're creating expensive urine. If you're using good quality supplements, in a way that is going to support someone's physiology and they're going to absorb that and it's going to energize their cells and it is going to heal their gut and it's going to help their body make neurotransmitters so they can think again. Like this is amazing, right? And so yeah, I just I try to really help people embody that and feel that and believe in what it is that we're doing. Because if you don't believe in it, if you don't truly come from that place of service and understanding that like, you know, again, you could be handing your money over to some big corporation, which I worked for for 12 years. And at the same time, right, there was a big focus on making healthcare more affordable and more accessible. And I'm like, great, they can do that. They have scale. They have volume. But there's also your local independent pharmacy that is providing an invaluable level of care and service. And so the idea of supporting your local pharmacy by purchasing your supplements with them, you are literally putting food on someone's table. Like you are truly helping your local economy. Like sometimes we don't get that deep. We don't really think about the impact that that has, but it is so true. And so I just want to put that out there for everybody to understand that like when we're talking about what we're doing behind the counter and like how much thought goes into the recommendations that we're making for someone, it is all part of like this bigger picture and this holistic plan that we are trying to put together to help someone get better. So I will step off of my soapbox now because I know on the the flip side is that functional medicine gets a bad rap whenever it just becomes about supplement sales and lab testing and all of these things that might be unnecessary. And this is why I will continue to advocate that pharmacists are so important for this. And we get a lot of patients that come to our F and PHA members. Because they've been to other providers that are in the functional space, that have just started lots of supplements, but didn't have the full picture and plan of okay, how does this all interact? And how long are we going to be doing this for? Right. Like that's how we think differently, and why I'm just like find a functional pharmacist. speaker-0: Yeah. As as you were talking, I had two thoughts. One was about you extending the invitation to me to work with the organization. And I'm really, really honored to be doing this. You were the person who taught me that we are all ordinary people choosing to do extraordinary things. And I didn't see myself that way. It was it was like, ⁓ everybody else is the the pharmacist that's giving the CEs and doing the research, doing whatever it is that you can name, it was just like that's somebody else, not me. And I have you to thank for helping me expand that mindset and realize that all of us, if we want to see the profession change, it's going to take all of us. And every single person that's listening to us today can make a difference. they can show up at their state association and or they can apply to give a talk. And I I want everyone to know that they can do it and that their voice is important and they're good enough, they're smart enough and gosh darn it, people like you. So I thank you for for helping me find that confidence to make a bigger difference in the world. Yeah. You know, how exciting is it that we can encourage other pharmacists to speak up in their community? I can't think of anything better than every farm like every member of FMPHA is super passionate about improving the health of the people in their community. And if we could get every pharmacist To look for the ways that they can do that in their community and unhook from the big chain retail jobs. I worked for some big chain retails for 10 years and it nearly broke me. It was just not sustainable. We weren't taking care of patients the way that I wanted to take care of patients. And there's that disconnect to almost to the point where I thought I should have chosen a different profession. But what I realized is that I love what I do, I was working in a system that did not allow me to take care of patients in the way that I was taught. I was taught to take really good care of patients. And we don't we don't have the resources in a a retail setting. And so I will say a lot of people know I don't love dispensing. Dispensing is my least favorite of the pharmacy work, but when I went from chain retail into independent retail, It was a completely different animal. And it was so much better. And it yeah, they they take really good care of people at independent pharmacies. The staffing ratios are better. So if if you're in chain retail and you feel trapped, look for an independent. I had a really, really good experience and felt really valued at the independent pharmacy for the knowledge that I could bring and the excitement that I had around patient care, I think you're gonna have more of those opportunities inside of an independent pharmacy. So I want to encourage people to to look for those opportunities. And FMPHA brought me that independent community pharmacy opportunity. This is everything is such cool, full circle moments. So Melody Hartzler, founder of Farm to Table, she had a group called Oily Pharmacists or S something to that effect. It was about essential oils. And I was in that group. And there was a thread. I made a comment on something. And somebody said, Hey, can I have your compounding recipe for that? And I messaged them back and I just said, I just do this in my kitchen. I'm not actually compounding this for patients. So I don't know that you can take this recipe and like use it in the pharmacy, but I use it at home. And I don't know why. I don't normally Facebook stock. people for lack of a better word, but I just I looked up this pharmacist. Like, where is she? I had just moved to Sherman, Texas, which is where I live now. And so I hadn't been here more than a few months. And the pharmacist inside of that oily pharmacist group that commented was an independent pharmacy owner in Sherman, Texas, less than two miles from where I live. So I just messaged her and I said, Hey, let's go to lunch. I think we're in the same town. And then, you know, we had just been having lunch, having fun, trading stories and she's just a really great human being. And then COVID hit. I was furloughed from the hospital because without surgeries being the bread and butter, you didn't need pharmacists verifying all those drugs. So I was furloughed from the hospital. I was out a month, out of work for four months. And she called before I had gone four months without the hospital work. She had called me, like at the start of COVID and said, Hey, I know you don't love dispensing, but I just had someone completely walk off the job. And I need a pharmacist. Are you willing to go back to the bench? It's like, sign me up. And it was a great experience. And I would not have had that opportunity. Had it not been for this community of functional medicine pharmacists. speaker-1: Yay, I love that. I honestly I hear that so much. Like we've had multiple people who have come into the functional medicine pharmacist boot camp with the intention of like, I'm in this job, it is not fulfilling me anymore. I feel like my hands are tied. I think I want to either start my own practice or find another practice setting. And like as soon as you start to put that intention out into the world, like doors will open and like people will show up and it's That is why we built this community and built this Facebook group. If you're not in it and you're a pharmacist, look us up, facebook.com slash groups slash functional medicine pharmacists. Come join us because the connections are just magical. And so we've had numerous people that have had similar things happen. And, you know, sometimes that's not even the forever job. It's like the next step in the journey to something else. So I'm just like thrilled to hear that too. So tell us more about where you are today. because you know, we're recording this on July 2nd of 2026. And you've moved from being our membership director. I sort of like roped you in. I don't even remember how I roped you into doing this. I was just like, I need help. We get along great. You totally like. Understand my vision and where I'm going. And like I think we had just really bonded through, you know, presenting together and everything. And then I was like, you're coming to mind share with me. And now I'm gonna have you be director of partnerships because I have too many meetings on my calendar. And I need someone else to like help be the filter, I guess, of like, you know, how do we vet companies and organizations and all of these, you know. These companies are starting to pay attention to pharmacists. Let's just put it that way. Like they're starting to see our value and the fact that we are an entire industry that is just at the beginning stages of starting to incorporate functional medicine. So the companies that are smart are paying attention to pharmacists as a practitioner type that they need to dedicate resources to because our practice setting is unique. The way that we work with patients is unique. And so we're not just like, you know. Second class citizens anymore. Like people are like, ⁓ yeah, pharmacists, you guys are important. Like you get to talk to your patients even more than doctors do. It's like, yeah. So I brought you in to help with partnerships, but I have had this vision that you would be essentially leading F and PHA back in 2023. Like that has, it's been three years since I initially had this vision that I was like, I just see this. I like. I have lots of big visions. That's that is just I guess my purpose in the world. So like building FMPHA was part of it. And I I realized very quickly that I was not going to be able to do it alone and I was going to need support. So I'm like, shout out to all of our state leaders that came on board in 2024, to our regional leaders that came on in 2025 and helped us lead and coach through. all of the boot camp rounds that we've done so far. And obviously for you being involved, you know, in in working kind of on the front facing side of things. but now we're finally at this point that I have officially been able to give you the title of executive director at the beginning of this year, while I was taking my own little sabbatical ⁓ over the winter. And now here we are, where you're stepping into This new role. speaker-0: It's really exciting and I'm really grateful. And I just left a full time hospital job. So I had been for the last thirteen years I've been part-time or PRN, either working in retail, ⁓ whether it be chain or independent, or I was also part-time at the hospital. And we moved up here, there weren't any hospital positions for me to transfer to. So I ended up moving to a work from home team and I worked every weekend for about two years. That was brutal. ⁓ I don't recommend it. But it was it was what was available and it gave me the opportunity to not have to pay for daycare in a town when we I mean we were still learning, getting to know people and and so it it was a really good fit for what it was. And then we had some really fun disasters with our house, and I was able to take my PRN work from home job and step into full time. temporarily and I just left that as of June 29th. So Monday of this very same week. And it never ceases to amaze me how God takes care of you, God provides for you when doors close, other ones open. And I I took the leap. We really we didn't plan, I don't feel like we planned this as well as I would like to plan in my recovering type A personality. I w I wanted a lot more ducks in a row, but my heart was just saying, like, you have to get out. I part of it is also the explosion of AI. I have at the hospital, I work from home doing order verification, and I honestly feel like the work that I do, because there's such limited direct human contact, that that job is not secure. And I felt like if I'm spending forty hours a week of my time I need to be looking at an alternate revenue stream. I need to be investing that time in something else because I don't want to get a phone call to say, yeah, you've been outsourced to. I don't know, what are we gonna name the AI robots that that do ⁓ data verification? And I think they could do it better than us. Like, and honestly, that's fine. I would rather be patient facing. I would rather be talking. To my patients. I would rather be holding someone's hand when they tell me they've had a scary diagnosis and they're like, ⁓ my gosh, I don't I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't want take this medication. I would rather sit there and hold space for that patient and say, All right, let's talk about it and let's un let's unpack this and let's find the care that aligns for you. You're scared of this medication? That's okay. Let's find out what you are scared of and What are some ways that we can make that fear less? And is this the care that's really aligned for you? Talk to the patient. Well, did the doctor give you XYZ other options? Okay, let's talk about those. You don't have to take this prescription off my counter today. It will be here next week, and we've got time to talk about it. That's the kind of work that I wanted to be be doing. And so I needed to step away from my hospital job. in order to start building those relationships and make sure that I have income for my family, but doing work that I love. And I'm grateful I'm so grateful for the opportunity to just I mean, I had that job like that. When I said, hey, I need to go full time, they said, okay, no problem. And I'm really, really grateful. It was really good for my family. I'm so glad I had that opportunity. And in the same breath, That was not work that was getting me to the kind of work that I want to be doing for the rest of my life. And it was fine. And I I left with no clear plan. And I saw a pharmacy. There was a pharmacy that opened up four months ago. I found I talked to the guy. It hasn't been a year like I thought. He's only been open four months. I saw his sign and I walked into his pharmacy and I said, Are you looking for somebody? And I I have some part time work. ⁓ at an independent closed door pharmacy for the next two months. And I mean, he had an immediate need. And if I'd still been full time at the hospital, I wouldn't have been able to meet that need. And I also stepped down from my hospital position because I want to work with FMPHA. I want to support our members in creating the work that they love. I I can't wait to hear more of the stories from our members and hear their stories and their whys. Because I want to see them succeed and I want to see their patients just have wonderful longevity and health. And it's it's exciting to have the opportunity to help other people know that they can be the change. You did that for me and now let's go do that for everyone who's listening. speaker-1: Yeah. I love it. And this is exactly what I mean, right? It's I think that's the message that, you know, as we close this interview today, is that you're not always gonna have it all figured out. But this is one of our principles in boot camp is trust the process and everything in divine timing. Like there are so many factors that are outside of our control. So don't worry about those. But When you start to really listen to your heart, and a lot of times in pharmacy, we don't do that. We we're very analytical. We want it all to make perfect logical sense on paper. And the math has to be mathing. But the cool thing about the universe math is that it's logarithmic. Like the compound effect that happens whenever we actually step into that place of trust and knowing that everything is working out for. our highest good. And if we can trust that we're here for a reason and we follow that calling and we follow that curiosity. And it doesn't mean quitting your job all at once. Like I think that's a huge takeaway from hearing your story, right? This is decades in the making. This is, you know, making time for your kids and your family and your husband. Like this is being a mom and a pharmacist. And practicing functional medicine, you know, in these everyday sort of ways that are changing people's lives. And it doesn't always have to be some big, flashy, internet famous type of like practice. It can be so personal. I think that's again, that's that's what we're so good at as pharmacists is that personal one-on-one connection with people. You know, like you said, holding their hand, just being there. And so I love that. And that's how I feel you are with all of our F and PHA members and why I was like, I'm bringing you in because this is what you're great at. You're so great at being able to get on a call with someone or a group of people. If you've never been to one of our community calls, Veronica leads these every Wednesday or on the last Wednesday of every month. We have a different book of the month that we talk about to sort of guide the conversation. But you just hold space for people so well to just relax and to like be real and to just connect. And that's what this is all about. So I feel like you are the yin to my yang, because I I get very excited and visionary and want to go, go, go. And you're able to also like see that vision and then help bring it into reality and like really ground it into okay, how do we bring this to people and meet them where they are and help support them on their journey. So I'm just so grateful for you as well and for our friendship and being colleagues and getting out there and just being the change that we want to see. And so in this Last question, I guess I would just ask, you know, what is your vision for the future of functional medicine pharmacists? And what wisdom would you like to share with someone that is sitting here listening to this and, you know, in that same spot that you've been in, of wondering, okay, what's next for me? What would you say to them? speaker-0: Well, my vision for all of us pharmacists is that we would be truly integrated into every care team, not just pockets of care teams, that we could be part of interdisciplinary care teams everywhere. Because every setting patients are taking medications, whether it's physical therapy or the dentist It doesn't matter where in healthcare you are, medications touch your patients, and we need to be involved there. And so I hope that we can embed pharmacists everywhere where medications are touching the patients, which is everywhere. And I hope that we're all doing direct patient care and investing in our communities and helping people get healthier. And what do I want to say to our members? I want to say that you have what it takes. You are so smart and intelligent. You have a big heart and we have a community here to help support you while you grow your confidence in calling yourself a functional medicine pharmacist and using that functional lens every day. speaker-1: Beautiful. I love it. Well, thank you so much, Veronica, for being my very first podcast guest on the Lauren Castle Show. And I hope everyone listening enjoyed this as much as I did and really got to see the Veronica that I know. I hope that you'll join us on our newsletter if you want to go to fmha.org/slash newsletter. We've revamped that page. And so there's now an option for whether you're a pharmacist, a practitioner, or a patient. We have dedicated resources for everyone. And that's that's been part of the mission for FMPHA since the beginning is that we really want to unite all walks of people on this journey to help, as Veronica said, get pharmacists embedded into every practice setting. So we have resources on how to collaborate with pharmacists. And of course, if you're a patient and you're thinking to yourself, ⁓ my gosh, I need one of these functional pharmacists, we can help connect you with someone in your state. So thank you again so much for listening and we'll see you on the next episode. That's it for this episode of the Loring Castle Show. Thank you so much for tuning in. And I hope you'll join us for the next one where you'll hear more stories from me and some of my amazing guests. Be sure to like and subscribe to the podcast no matter where you watch or listen, and check out our website, drorincastle.com and fmpha.org. We'll see you next time.