Latest / Gone Cold - Texas True Crime / The Disappearance of Elisa Roberson Part 5: Undeterred

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The Disappearance of Elisa Roberson Part 5: Undeterred · Gone Cold - Texas True Crime

0:01
Before we start this episode, we'd like to share a trailer for the new
0:05
podcast, Box and the Basement. Most of y'all who have listened to Gone
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Cold for a while probably remember Arlene, unsolved murder victim Leon Laureles's niece and
0:17
best friend. Now she and Leah are setting out to tackle the overwhelming amount
0:23
of cold cases in the United States, beginning appropriately with Leon's here's our Lene
0:30
and Leah. There are over two hundred thousand unsolved homicides in the United States
0:36
justice system right now, and many of those cases haven't seen the light of
0:41
day in years, decades. In some instances, the case files and evidence
0:47
are sitting in a box on a dusty shelf in a basement, forgotten by
0:51
law enforcement and the media, while the families and friends left behind wait for
0:56
answers and fight for justice. Sometimes there's nobody left to remember or to speak
1:02
up on behalf of the victim. I'm Marlene and I'm Leah, and that
1:07
is exactly what Box in the Basement sets out to do. To shine a
1:11
light on those forgotten victims and to bring attention to unsolved murders and disappearances.
1:17
We want to help families tell their stories, and we want to assist the
1:21
families and friends of victims find the resources and support they need to continue their
1:26
fight for justice. Join us every Wednesday for new episodes of Box in the
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Basement wherever you find your podcasts. If you'd like to hear Leon's story like
1:36
no one else has told it, subscribe and listen to Box in the Basement.
1:41
The first three episodes are out now wherever you get your podcasts. And
1:46
one more thing in honor of Leon's birthday coming up, Arlene and Leah are
1:52
doing a coat and blanket drive for their area homeless folks. In this episode's
1:57
show notes, just under the link box in the Basement, you'll find another
2:01
link where you can easily help the cause. Thanks y'all. The Gone Cold
2:07
podcasts may contain violent or graphics subject matter. Listener discretion is advised. When
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Ruby Roberson Hall contacted us about covering her sister Elisa Roberson's case, almost nothing
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about it could be found online, save a few anniversary stories here and there,
2:27
a web sleuth thread and Corpus Christi Coller Times and Aransas Pass Progress newspaper
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archives. Even fewer posts about Elisa on social media could be found except a
2:40
few here and there made by missing persons advocates and by Elisa's family friends and
2:46
original investigator former Aransas Pass Police Lieutenant Linda Thompson, although they'd have you believe
2:53
otherwise, those who are currently and loudly claiming to have been the only voices
3:00
for Elisa and to have the answers needed to solve the case have been virtually
3:06
silent until recently. It's unclear if these couple individuals, one the daughter of
3:13
the initial investigation's primary person of interest, and the other an individual who claims
3:19
credentials and connections they actually do not have, are simply looking for attention,
3:24
trying to insert themselves into the case as important players, or attempting to obfuscate
3:30
the truth for reasons that could be theorized as nefarious in more than one way.
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Whatever the case, accusations against the family of Alisa Roberson made by one
3:43
individual in particular fail to be substantiated by evidence in any way other than the
3:50
claimed confession of a convicted and several times over accused pedophile. The daughter of
3:57
the original prime suspect, theorizes, again without any proof, that Elisa's mother,
4:02
Marina accidentally killed her during an argument, and her father helped bury Elisa.
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It isn't her first theory. No matter what those who support her might
4:15
yell from the rooftops around a couple decades ago, she couldn't remember anything about
4:19
that day or the events surrounding it. Then a few years later, this
4:26
person implicated Elisa's ten year old brother Tony in the murder of his sister,
4:30
another theory with no basis in fact or evidence that is still carelessly listed on
4:36
some otherwise above board Missing Persons organization's websites. But her latest theory that Marina
4:45
killed Elisa presumes the missing girl never left her home that day, which goes
4:49
against several credible eyewitness accounts, including one that has surfaced since the last episode
4:57
of this podcast was released. This account was told by Roberson family neighbor whose
5:02
little boys were good friends with Elisa's youngest brother, Alex. They were outside
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that day when Elisa left to meet her friend and walked with her to the
5:15
corner of South Whitney Street and good Night Avenue. They said their boys stated
5:20
a friend's house on the corner. This person continued, they walked back down
5:26
South Whitney Street, and Alisa continued walking up good Night Avenue. It was
5:31
another sighting dismissed by the loudest voice in the room, the voice that only
5:36
screams when others begin asking questions about Elisa's disappearance. The daughter of suspect Bob
5:44
Green, but she and others have alleged that there were more child predators in
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Ransas Pass that crossed paths with thirteen year old Elisa in nineteen eighty nine.
5:57
The cousin of Bob's next door neighbor was one Bob's daughter told us as was
6:02
an area church pastor. Elisa had at least some contact with a Green family
6:09
neighbor, and plenty with the pastor. Then there was a guy in the
6:13
neighborhood known as Grandpa, who would befriend local Hispanic women who had children.
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I'm told by them things like groceries to get close and molest their kids in
6:26
return for his supposed generosity. The brother of a local cop, too,
6:32
has been accused of child molestation by many folks we've spoken with. This person,
6:39
according to a couple accounts, attempted to lure Lisa into his vehicle as
6:44
she and her sister Ruby left the local movie theater after seeing the movie Batman.
6:49
Since the Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson Top Build film was released nationwide just
6:56
a little more than two weeks before Elisa went missing, the event perhaps is
7:00
significant in terms of the investigation, but this man and the others, it
7:06
should be noted, have no relevant charges or convictions on their records that I
7:12
could find. These are but a few of the leads private investigator Richard Norgard
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has looked into since he came on board Elisa Roberson's case many years ago.
7:48
In the early two thousands, Elisa's brother Tony got into some serious trouble up
7:54
in Alaska. It really isn't necessary to go into any detail about it,
8:00
as his case only pertains to Elisa's case, insomuch as the loss of his
8:05
sister exacerbated a problem Tony was born with. Ruby explained Tony's difficult birth.
8:13
He was born with the umbilical cord wrapped around his neck, so he wasn't
8:18
breathing when he was born, so they had to revive him. And when
8:20
they revived him, he I mean, they didn't know what at the time,
8:24
but you know, as he was grown up, they realized he had
8:26
brain damage and so he struggled with a lot of impulse control and a lot
8:31
of anger and a lot of you know, communication, and then top that
8:37
with the dysfunctional childhood we grew up in. You know, he didn't stand
8:41
a chance. He just struggled, and things just kind of progressively got worse
8:46
for him. As we described him in part one of Alisa's story, Tony
8:50
had a good heart, but like his old man, had a predilection for
8:56
causing trouble here and there. The trouble was usually innocuous and often enterprising.
9:03
My name was one word, Linda Thompson. It wasn't when the one Thompson.
9:07
It was one word with all the kids, Linda Thompson. If they
9:11
got in trouble, Linda Thompson's going to get you. But I made private
9:16
deals with Tony all the time to keep him out of trouble. And when
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Marina would have trouble with him, she would come up to PlayStation with Alsa
9:26
as her interpreter because she just wasn't comfortable with her English, and I would
9:31
go back and I would always go over and talk to Tony and get him
9:35
calm down or settle down, or I bribed him sometimes if you don't get
9:39
in trouble at school for a whole week, you know, I'll give you
9:43
a dollar. And the one time I caught him stealing newspapers from the lobby
9:50
of the bank and walk he's smart, walk over and he was selling him
9:56
to the people at the driving bank. And I, yeah, I got
10:00
a call and broke his stole. And they made him go back to that
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newspaper machine and put on a few papers he had left back in and I
10:09
made him stand there and drop every penny of that a quarter in a dime
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at a time he had two full pockets. Have changed. I'm going into
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Thompsons. Tony was not a bad kid. Tony was curious and very enterprising,
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and I mean he knew how to control herself because I paid him more
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than one dollar. Let me tell you, Tony is among the primary reasons
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both Linda and Mike Thompson of the Aransas Past Police Department got to know Marina
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and her kids as well as they did, and his trouble making as a
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child, though most of the time tame was the seed for others to concoct
10:52
the theory that the ten year old was responsible for the death of Alisa.
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It's a theory with absolutely no corroborative details or evidence whatsoever besides the fact that
11:05
he was a handful. That theory only gained serious attention anyway after Tony got
11:11
in trouble as an adult. Regardless, the adult run in with the law
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was very serious and landed Tony a stiff sentence and is what ultimately led Ruby
11:22
and Marina to private investigator Richard Norgard. Richard Norgard, a criminal defense investigator
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for the State of Alaska at the time, was assigned to work Tony Robertson's
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case in the two thousands. I was a criminal defense investigator for the State
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of Alaska at that time, and I was actively working in the defense of
11:58
Ruby's brother and as part of my investigation and that my job was to biscuit
12:05
do trial prep, which had to do with interviewing people best anything the attorney
12:09
asked me to do, but mostly entailed interviewing people and collecting information on Tony's
12:16
medical history and specifically down in Texas from when he was growing up. And
12:22
I interviewed both Marina and Ruby and death multiple times over the course of a
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couple of years prior to two thousand and nine that I was working on the
12:33
investigation. He was subsequently convicted and sentenced to a long period of prison and
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was sent to the state prison and Seward, Alaska. And then over time
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I continued to visit him there as they were appeals being done and so forth,
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And so I had probably spent more time talking to Tony than you know,
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that anybody else in the case, probably by far. And so I
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was able to get his insights and so forth. So because of my work
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in that and the family's familiarity with me. In two thousand and nine,
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coincidentally with the what would have been the twentieth anniversary of Elisa's disappearance, there
13:24
was a lot of activity going on at that time, including Ruby going down
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to Texas and there was a ceremony and they planted a, you know,
13:31
a little monument down there by the school and so forth. So surrounding all
13:37
that going on, she asked me to become involved in the case. So
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that's how it came about. By the stage in his life, Richard's career
13:48
had run the gamut. As a teenager, he began working for the News
13:52
Herald in Port Clinton, Ohio. According to that newspaper, as he fulfilled
13:58
his hoarding and photographer duties. He was even working on writing a book he
14:03
hoped would be published someday instead of immediately pursuing a career as a novelist.
14:11
However, Richard joined the United States Army as a young man, where his
14:16
accomplishments certainly stuck out. While in basic training, he won a trophy for
14:22
highest Basic rifle marksmanship. During his time in the Army, Richard was awarded
14:28
the Meritorious Service Medal, the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, and the Army Commendation
14:33
Medal twice. When it was all said and done, Richard Norgard had served
14:39
twenty years in the United States Army, working as a counter intelligence officer.
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After that, he co founded a private investigation agency in Alaska before becoming a
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criminal defense investigator for the state, a career he kept for ten years.
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Writing detective mystery novel fills some of Richard's time after retirement, But from what
15:03
I've seen, his primary passion, which he does pro bono, is finding
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out what happened to blanc Elisa Roberson On Sunday, August sixth, nineteen eighty
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nine. First thing I needed to do with Christmas become familiar with the case,
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and I was already quite a bit familiar with it just from speaking with
15:24
family members, because that incident was such a big part of the whole family
15:31
dynamic, because her disappearance in eighty nine set in motion, you know,
15:37
a whole number of things, you know, involving that family, including their
15:41
relocating. I you know, just familiarized myself with the case. I went
15:46
online and read articles, and then when I felt I was up to speed,
15:52
I started interviewing people. You know, it would be given a name,
15:56
for instance, and so I would try to locate that person interviewing,
16:00
and then it just sort of just expanded from there. One person I mentioned
16:03
another name, and so I would interview them. So, because of Elisa's
16:08
mother, Marina's insistence for decades that her abusive boyfriend, Ralph Gonzalez had at
16:15
least some hand in her daughter's disappearance, if he was not entirely responsible,
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Richard found out what he could about him. When I interviewed the family,
16:26
I learned that Marine had been in a relationship with Ralph Gonzalez over a period
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of years, although by the time of the disappearance she had broken with him
16:37
and they were no longer together. She was aware that he'd been involved in
16:41
criminal activity, specifically drug activity in the Arenes Past area, and she was
16:47
in fear of him. There had been some violence two family members by this
16:52
individual during the time that she was with him, and there was a threat
16:56
made that he made against Marina, did threaten her and told her that he
17:02
would do something to her where she would always remember him, She'll never forget
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him. They had a child together, and there was fear that Ralph was
17:11
gonna, you know, he hung around ther and his path, so he'd
17:15
be hanging around and there was fear that he was going to maybe take their
17:21
son and you know, take him away to Mexico and then she wouldn't see
17:26
him againt. So she had that fear. That fear was not necessarily thought
17:30
to be against Elisa or one of the other children, but specifically having to
17:33
do with the son that they had together. That's kind of what I've been
17:38
aware of at the time that I started this, and so obviously he would
17:44
have been or should have been considered a prime suspect, and in fact,
17:48
she Marina was not silent about telling the cops that that's who she thought was
17:53
responsible. There was a search going on. All these things were going on,
18:00
it was hectic, and you know, and so she was making demands
18:03
and you know, the police were probably overwhelmed and so forth, and so
18:08
so that that's sort of the backdrop of, you know, what was going
18:12
on with Ralph. But he definitely bobbed immediately to the surface as being a
18:18
prime list fan. Although there's little doubt Aransas Pass Police Chief Melvin shed and
18:26
Detective Sergeant Richard Rodriguez, who knew Gonzales well, located and visited the man
18:32
in a Mexico prison. Marina also remembered some details that didn't necessarily jibe with
18:38
his being incarcerated in Monterey since May of nineteen eighty nine. After Elisa vanished,
18:45
she received two letters from Gonzales from the Mexico prison, Marina said,
18:51
both of which the stamps were canceled by Postmark in San Antonio, Texas.
18:57
In the letters, Gonzales his concerns about Elisa's disappearance. This was to understate
19:04
it out of character for this abusive monster who only ever expressed hate and violence
19:12
and never sympathy or affection. These letters, by all indications, were insincere,
19:19
suggesting at the very least Gonzales reveled and Marina's pain, and at worst,
19:26
perhaps a taunting hint that he was involved. The prison alibi thing is
19:32
is I've always considered to be a red hearing. Here's what I mean by
19:36
that, Ralph was he was a drug dealer. He was well known around
19:41
there. He was certainly known as the police department. And I'm not going
19:45
to go into that any further in this conversation, but this idea that well,
19:51
he had an alibi because he was in prison. First of all,
19:55
one of the things that the interviews revealed was that, as I mentioned,
20:00
that he had abused the children, so they were definitely afraid of him.
20:07
Alisa Roberson never would have gotten into a vehicle or gone with him anywhere willingly.
20:14
So if he wanted to do something, number one, he wouldn't have
20:19
done it himself for the reason that he would know that she would never go
20:23
with him. And number two, he's the kind of guy who would make
20:27
sure that he was nowhere near it. He'd want to have an alibi,
20:33
and what better alibi than having a record that you were in prison at the
20:37
time. Right in July, about a month before Elisa disappeared, Marina is
20:42
sure she saw Ralph Gonzales at the HTB grocery store in Aransas Pass. Whatever
20:49
the case, whether Gonzales had indeed been in prison in Mexico the entire time
20:56
or had been able to bribe his way in and out, he needn't have
21:00
done the initial dirty work himself. That's where perhaps a red car comes in.
21:07
For some time, Richard has held much information close to the chest,
21:12
but on December eighth, twenty twenty three, he decided to make a public
21:18
plea to the residence of Aransas Pass via social media, and in doing so
21:23
revealed a lead he's been interested in. Somewhere around or between eighth and ninth
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Streets on Goodnight Avenue. The Bloodhound Clementine lost Elisa sent the day following her
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disappearance, multiple witnesses, Richard says, saw Elisa Roberson get into the passenger
21:45
side of a red Tudor compact car with someone she knew and trusted. It
21:51
is believed the driver may or may not have been aware that they were involved
21:56
in an abduction, Richard said, And maybe we're in instructed to bring her
22:00
to a house nearby or the waterfront. Perhaps the driver of this red car
22:07
Richard's public plea continued to take part in the crime, or did so for
22:11
the promise of drugs in return. It might also have been several hours before
22:18
the driver realized they'd taken part in a crime. As far as whether or
22:23
not this possible scenario has anything to do with Ralph Gonzalez is up for interpretation,
22:30
at least in a public sense. But it might be important to note
22:34
that people told me that he was a shrimper, so he had access to
22:38
boats. You know, I know just from research that one way that they
22:44
traffick drugs was with fishing boats and shrimp boats, you know, in the
22:48
Gulf, from ports in Mexico to here. And I also know that Alisa
22:52
would sneak away with friends and they would go down to the court and hang
22:56
out down there. I know Ralph lived at one time, I'm lived over
23:00
by the port and had friends down there. And so in terms of having
23:06
the means mode of an opportunity, how hard would it have been for him
23:11
if they could get her in the car, And by the way, maybe
23:14
a friend of hers picked her up and took her somewhere, believing that it
23:18
was innocent. You know, maybe one of her friends delivered her somewhere,
23:23
and then when she turned up missing, they thought, oh my god,
23:27
I was involved in this, and now if I come forward, I'm in
23:32
big trouble. They're going to get me. That person would want pends and
23:36
now want to talk. That person could have been asked to take her somewhere
23:41
for a party or whatever, for whatever ostensible reason, and I'm taking her
23:45
down to the port. She could have been snatched up and put on a
23:48
boat. She'd be in Mexico that night. Considering theories such as these,
23:55
human trafficking remains a viable, albeit less likely possibility. It cannot be taken
24:02
off the table. Private investigator Richard Norgard hasn't written off the possibility that Bob
24:08
Green was responsible for whatever happened to Alisa by any means, and in fact
24:15
feels initial investigator's theory indeed has legs, but he's keeping an open mind to
24:21
all possibilities in which evidence, corroborating details, or I witness accounts can be
24:27
found. Recently, due to Richard's investigative work, former Ransis Pass lieutenant and
24:36
initial investigator Linda Thompson's push for resolution, and Ruby's efforts toward widespread and intensified
24:44
publicity. Prior to the thirty fourth anniversary of Elisa's disappearance back in August of
24:49
twenty twenty three, activity on the case has been making waves, though the
24:56
previous two episodes have demonstrated the destructive m impact of those waves, which is
25:02
undoubtedly the loudest. Positive developments, particularly a renewed interest and folks coming forward
25:10
with new information, far outweigh the negative. The quest for justice for Elisa
25:17
is moving forward undeterred. When Alisa disappeared, it affected each at every one
25:34
of the Roberson's in a different way. Her father, Eugene, moved to
25:40
Alaska after notifying the authorities that he'd found an abandoned skiff bumping up against the
25:48
fishing boat he was working on. Alaska State troopers took Eugene into custody.
25:53
He had an outstanding warrant in Texas, they told him for a pearl violation
25:59
stemming from an aggravated assault and aggravated rape conviction. The arrest was upsetting,
26:06
but the rape charge was maddening. Eugene Roberson had never even been suspected of
26:11
a sexual crime, and because of Elisa's disappearance, which almost certainly is the
26:18
result of foul play. The charge was particularly hard for the man to swallow,
26:23
re traumatizing. In fact, Eugene vehemently denied he'd ever been charged with
26:30
such a crime, and instead his release from prison in July nineteen eighty six
26:37
and did any and all probation or parole responsibilities. The whole thing was a
26:42
mistake. After quickly agreeing to be extradited to Texas, authorities there rechecked their
26:48
records and found out he was right. Eugene had not violated parole and the
26:56
aggravated rape had been mistakenly entered into the cysts them. It should have read
27:00
aggravated escape because he'd attempted to break out while serving time, a crime that
27:07
only added to his stay in prison. Eugene told reporters he traveled back to
27:12
Kodiak, Alaska, where he was initially arrested after his release from a jail
27:18
house in Anchorage, to make sure everyone there knew the rape charge had been
27:23
a mistake. The problem, Eugene added, is in Texas. That's a
27:30
feeling not exclusive to Eugene, who passed away in December of nineteen ninety eight,
27:36
haunted by Elisa's disappearance until the end. When Alisa went missing, Marina
27:42
had three other children, and though she'd painfully lost a piece of her heart,
27:48
she had no choice but to continue to move forward and hide the anguish
27:52
as best she could. Oh at Lisa, she was said, Oh,
28:00
she was a beautiful girl. They were they were sweet, loving. She
28:08
have a big hard and she was always trying to protect her little sibling,
28:15
Ruby Tony Alt She was the oldest sister. And she was smart, smart,
28:26
but a trusty, very trusty, you know. At the same time
28:33
she was innocense. She was a big girl, but she was a very
28:37
very good girl. She was not wild or anything like that. You know.
28:45
She was sweet, you know, fearful. Ralph Gonzalez would take another
28:52
of her children. She moved to the kids far up north. Today,
28:56
Marina just wants Alisa back home, whatever her fate, back with her.
29:03
Twelve year old Ruby was certainly sad, but forced to step into the role
29:08
of the oldest sibling to protect her. This also carried with it an expectation
29:15
of stoicism to a point. An old newspaper photo featuring Ruby and five year
29:22
old Alex sitting with Elisa's father, Eugene, portrays perhaps the emotion the two
29:29
children and ten year old Tony had most in common. Besides sadness anger,
29:34
Alisa had pulled herself and her siblings through some bad times. Our childhood was
29:41
us four of us just kind of taking care of each other in some weird
29:45
way. I mean, my mom was there for us and took care of
29:48
us and loved us. But she loved us and did what she the best
29:52
she could with how bad the circumstances were. If that makes any sense,
29:56
then sometimes when all the best stuff is happening in some weird way, you
30:03
have all this bad stuff happening in the background, but you had each other
30:07
and that's what made it, you know, made us able to we were
30:11
able to cope with that and deal with that, is we had each other.
30:17
And that's what I always remembered. We had each other, and we
30:18
loved each other, and we had some good times with us four siblings.
30:23
And Alisa was the oldest one, just you know, at the helm,
30:29
making sure that we were doing what we were supposed to be doing and behaving
30:32
and all that all that other stuff. Like her mother, not a day
30:38
goes by that. Ruby doesn't think of Alisa, reliving the day, the
30:44
subsequent searches, and the decades that have passed, wondering if she could have
30:48
done anything differently. The bond between the two sisters was strong, and since
30:55
Alisa has been gone, a part of Ruby has been missing as well.
31:00
Tony's behavioral and mental health issues and the abuse he suffered at the hands of
31:04
Ralph Gonzales only worsened as the result of his sister's disappearance, eventually landing him
31:11
in prison in two thousand two and many attempts at suicide. While incarcerated.
31:18
In August of twenty seventeen, Tony unfortunately completed the act. It made August
31:26
unbearable now the anniversary month of two family tragedies, because of the abuse his
31:33
father, Ralph Gonzales, wrought on his mother and siblings, and the possibility
31:37
that Gonzales is responsible for Elisa's disappearance. Alex lives with unbearable guilt to this
31:45
day. He worries that some fault flows within his blood. Nothing could be
31:52
farther from the truth, of course, but unbearable tragedies framed inside of uncertainty
31:57
often leave family mane of victims prone to unreasonable feelings that they are somehow to
32:04
blame or could have done something differently to change the outcome, no matter how
32:09
many years or decades have passed. But the only person who carries blame is
32:15
the monster who took Elisa. As Blanca Elisa Roberson's case progresses, and there
32:23
are a group of folks determined to make sure that's exactly what happens. We'll
32:29
provide updates here on Gone Cold in the meantime. If you have any information
32:36
about the disappearance of Blanca Alisa Roberson, please email Missing Elisa nineteen eighty nine
32:42
at gmail dot com. Thanks to Richard Norgard, Linda Thompson, Ruby Roberson
32:50
Hall, and Marina Kintana Tomchak for their contributions to this episode. If you
32:57
like Gone Cold's mission to raise awareness for unsolved homicides, missing persons cases,
33:04
and other mysteries across Texas, we'd greatly appreciate your five star rating and written
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