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Everything Has Changed. Nothing Has Changed: 50 Years in Financial Advice · Adeptli's Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Adeptly Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: At Adepoli, we work alongside advisors and advice firms, providing hands-on, technical, operational, and strategic support to help them deliver good advice and run stronger businesses.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: In this series, we explore the trends, challenges, and questions impacting financial advisors and advice firms across the UK, with practical insight from people working at the heart of the industry.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Clear thinking, real experience, and honest conversation.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Adeptly Podcast.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Today, Dave and myself are joined by Ian Price to look at how the financial advice industry has changed over the last 50 years and perhaps some of the ways it hasn't.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Ian has spent almost five decades in financial services, holding a number of senior roles across some of the industry's largest firms with a particular focus on retirement planning.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: He's still very much involved in the industry today, running his own company, speaking at events and working with firms on their growth and development.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, Ian, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: Great to be here.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: Great to see both of you as well.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, would you like to begin with just giving us a bit of background about Ian and what you've been up to these last 50 years?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: How long have we got right?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: I was driving over here today, and funny enough, yesterday I popped to London.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, as you know, I live in Swindon and I went to Swindon Station.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: And believe it or not, in 1977, I started work above Swindon Station at Hambro Life.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: I can remember it in September.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: I started work in the Executive Retirement Plan Servicing Division.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_04: Little did I know that 50 years later I'd be still actively involved in the industry in the way that I want to be.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very clear, I have my own little business, but it's very much a small little business where I consult with a few clients.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: I just reflect on how lucky I've been.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: I've worked in an industry that's been changing.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sure we're going to talk about that.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: Still changes, but some of the fundamentals are still the same today as they were 50 years ago.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um I started, and we were just talking about it before we recorded because we weren't allowed to put that language in.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: I started I started with Hambro Life.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: I started Hambro Life because basically they were taking anybody on, irrespective of their qualifications, which in my case was really important because I had five CSV grade ones.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: One was metalwork.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: So I didn't so from was I equipped to work in financial services?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but what I had was an opportunity within financial services to develop my skills and work with some very talented people, both within head office environment, but most importantly, the bit I've always enjoyed is the advisor population.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_04: And over the last 50 years, I've met some of the industry's top advisors, both in the independent world and for want a better world, the tide world, we can get wrapped up in names, which is too boring.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_04: But doing that has been just so much fun.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_04: And by the way, still is with all the change I'm sure we're going to talk about.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: It is still great fun.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you yourself, we were talking earlier, took your first pension at 55.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, talk to us a bit about your own retirement journey.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_04: Uh right.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: This I did a client event not so long ago, and I started the event by saying within five minutes, you're going to hate me.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: That long.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_04: This wasn't Dave talking.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: So within five minutes, because I was one of the exceptionally lucky people.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_04: As you know, I ended up being a pensions marketing director, all those sort of different titles, which end up being totally irrelevant in reality.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: But I started, when I started Hamburg Life, this lovely lady from HR department, I'm not being sexist, she was a lovely lady from H department department, said, Ian, can you sign this piece of paper?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: And like any good 20-year-old, I signed it.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_04: It was, I've always said, it was the best piece of paper apart from my divorce papers that I have ever signed, okay?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: Because it was a 160th contracted-in, non-contributary final salary scheme.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: I stayed at um Hamburg Lives that became Zurich for 26 and a half years.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: And believe it or not, part of the deal I got was when I was 55, I could take my final salary scheme benefits with no penalty.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: So as you know, I'm approaching 70, so I've now got I've had 15 years of final salary scheme benefits.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_04: As we all met at St.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_04: James's Place, St.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: James's Place had a very, very good DC pension scheme.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_04: So I was getting paid 15% into my DC pension scheme.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_04: So in reality, I sit here never ever having paid into a UK pension scheme.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I was a pensions marketing director.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm one of the very lucky baby boomers that are exceptionally lucky.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: But that's why the marketplace is changing so much, because that era has moved and gone.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_04: You don't see, I don't see many companies nowadays with a contribution rate of 15%.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: Most are playing around the auto-enrollment level plus a beer.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: So my retirement was been great.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_04: So from 55, and by the way, like any classic fantastic financial advisor, my tax-free cash went to pay for my mortgage, because that's what it did.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: So I bought the house of my dreams knowing that I was going to get the tax-free cash.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: And Dave's been, it's my dream the house of my dreams.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, having a pension's been great.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: The bit that I was talking to Dave about that I really got wrong was I just focused retirement on money.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_04: Now I'm at that stage, it isn't.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I think this is where good advisors are starting to realise this quantum shift that's happening in the marketplace where people like me or my age group want to do something else.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: We're not just waiting to die.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: If I'm really honest, you know, my dad unfortunately died at 65.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_04: My mum, who's been in every presentation of my life, lived to 100, literally.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_04: So I became very quickly that I realized when I had the opportunity to leave SJP, or as Dave would say, you were made redundant, which is absolutely fantastic.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: I realized straight away I didn't want to work for anybody.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: But I didn't want to not work because my brain wouldn't let me stop.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I actually think it's really good to have something to do and work for when you've retired.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: So I seen this real change in, you know, years ago you took your tax free cash, you bought an annuity, you died.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: Being perfectly blunt.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_04: I have no intentions of retiring from my little consultancy business.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_04: But let's be clear, but I haven't got the corporate responsibilities.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: That's a different ball game.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: But for me, that change has been immense and so enjoyable.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm I had a conversation with somebody I know in London recently.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_04: I would argue I'm more effective now than I've ever been because I haven't got corporate responsibilities.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: I only deal with nice people, and if they want me, they pay for me.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_04: If they don't want me, they don't get me.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's quite blunt, but I quite like that.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_04: So there's been this real shift around.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you talk about that shift in retirement planning from very money focused.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think advisors are adapting to that change?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, absolutely.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: I personally think one of the game changers over the last 10 years has been cash flow modelling.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_04: I cannot understand anybody who's in this industry who isn't using cash flow modelling.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think it doesn't matter who you are or what you are, cash flow modelling has been the quantum change.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: For me, cash flow modelling is the plan.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: So you go and see a client, Dave, when do you want to return?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: All those sort of questions you ask.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: So the cash flow becomes the plan.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: The products support that plan.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_04: So when I started, it was very much rumoured to be product sales, and it was, and we'll come back to that, I'm sure.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: But now you have this real plan.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: And in fairness, I've got a fantastic advisor.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: I might as well mention him because he won't look at this and listen to it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: So Rob Compton, one of the things he did was come and talk to me about cash flow modelling.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: He reassured me that I'd be okay.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: And guess what?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_04: I am okay.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: But I think for me, that's the change.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_04: So I think advisors are really starting to realise that you need to have this plan.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_04: Because the one thing is certain, we can sit here today.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know about you guys, the market just I can't believe what the market's doing this year, positively if I'm honest.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: But at some point there'll be a downturn.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_04: We know that.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: So the plan is the plan.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: So what it means is maybe next year I'm ahead of that plan, the funding year might be below it.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: But you keep that plan in place.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: So that to me has been the real change.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I can't see why any business, doesn't matter what you are, you must get behind cash flow modelling.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's becomes the most important thing I've seen.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think when you retired?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Retired.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think you knew you were wanting to carry on working?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or was there at a period of time where you were assessing options?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think the cash flow helped you see that you could carry on working if you wanted to, but you didn't need to financially, or did you already reach that kind of emotional decision of no, I want to work regardless because I don't want to retire?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think came out?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Bit of both, Dave, to be honest.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I was very clear, I wasn't expecting to uh be made retired retired, whatever, kicked out.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, easier word, kicked out.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: I wasn't expecting it, but straight away I knew that I didn't want to just sit at home.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not ready to sit at home.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: I am the world's that was a very clear yeah, so that I had to do something.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And Nicole didn't want you to either.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely right.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't like it.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm out today, Jesus Christ.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um but the thing was, I think what it became was very much about um I also wanted to help.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it there's a there's a bit of me, uh somebody want uh one of my clients said to me, When are you gonna retire?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_04: Literally, when are you gonna retire?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm I hit seven, when are you gonna retire?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: It's quite simple when you decide to stop paying me.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't want to become a caricature.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm very clear that I see in some industries, you sometimes see it with footballers go on too long.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I see it with some of the legend pop stars.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: They're almost being wheeled out to sing, uh and they're becoming a caricature of themselves.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_04: I will stop when I know.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: But at the minute, I love it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, I I'm with you today, I'm going to do a webinar tonight.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: I was in London yesterday, and tomorrow I'm out for lunch.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: Some weeks I do one day, which is probably one new Dave, actually.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I can confirm.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: But to be Don't say that in front of my boss.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely right.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I think from my perspective, yes, the cash flow really reassured me.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: And what's ironic is because of the way markets are going, I've I haven't received what you'd call a salary for five and a half years or whatever it is, I'm in a better financial position when I was than when I left SJP because of investments.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really interesting dynamic, but I'm passionate if you've got a skill, use it.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: But also, we were just talking earlier on about wait, you know, waitros, you see the delivery people, they're people who've had a career, want something to do to keep them active, Dave.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think the worst thing you can do is not be active.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_04: And somebody gave me a great line which I try and try every day not to agree to.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_04: Don't let the old man in.
• 10:52
  unknown: Yeah.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_04: Because you can get, you know, if you're not careful, you can sit there because you get older.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, wish it's happening.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_04: That is no.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, it's about making decisions that are right, still adding value.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: And the day I don't add value, I'll stop.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_04: But the cash flow plan is always in the background.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_04: So just I know what I can do, when I can do it, and how I can do it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure we'll talk about it.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_04: The only thing is legislation's changing some of the issues around it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_04: But fundamentally, I really was very quick.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted to do something, I couldn't sit at home.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: But I've got I've got nothing to do, I don't play golf.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm robbing You haven't got the patience of golf now.
• 11:28
  unknown: No, no, I haven't.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: And but I I do other bits and pieces, but it's um as I've always said, people get to retire, oh, it's gonna be great.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, what do you do in November when's great look like?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: So as you Dave knows Nicole, Nicole's decided to retire as a teacher.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_04: So she's now so next week with the first time she hasn't gone back to school for 25 years.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: I think she's beginning to realise, oh, what am I gonna do?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what does the start of September looks different?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's why she's doing the first day.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: She's going in with my daughter to her school to help her.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So even so yeah, but I guess the difference there is she if you follow the same feelings, the feeling of still being able to add value, now it's a want, not a need.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So she can want to do it, not need to do it.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely right.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: She can still add value, and but she could stop the day after if she doesn't enjoy it, doesn't want to do it, and just says, actually, it's not for me after all.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: And also, um, as you know, I deal with a lot of younger advisors, I do a lot of mentoring.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's brilliant.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: I get as much out of it as they do.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: Watching somebody come in and write their first million pounds of investments is so rewarding.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think sometimes the industry we forget this.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: We all get carried away with such big numbers, but somebody I know is building a business, they might do, let's say, I think one of the people I'm looking at might between two five and six million pounds of new business this year.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: That's phenomenal.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that is really good.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: People have forgotten to recognise that.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_04: I've never forgotten the role that the advisors have is a very, very hard role.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_04: It was easy, everybody would do it.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: And they don't, and you guys, I know you guys help a lot of advisors, but watching a new person come in building their business, there's nothing better.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I I really, really enjoy that.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I think more people should help to do that as well.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: You it's you know, industry means very good to me, don't get me wrong.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: So giving back in some ways, even though I get paid for doing it, but it's so much fun, really is.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we need to find a way of getting more younger people into the industry as well, don't we?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh totally agree.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I think, and also accepting, and I think this is a statement as an old man, yeah, flag it.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, all the people I've ever known who've been successful advising, the one thing they've done is work really, really hard.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I think some people about in today's world they feel very much an entitlement, whereas I'm going, you have to earn that entitlement.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: So you if you, you know, I can remember some of the top people I know around the place, they were on the phones Monday morning, desperately trying to get an appointment.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: Let's not kid ourselves, the industry's a hard industry.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: It is predicated by getting clients.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: And we can all talk about the big, you know, we know some you know some of the top people.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: We knew them 25 years ago where they were scratching around.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't mean that disrespectfully, but they had some worth ethic, they kept going, they started to build their business, they started the referrals were good, they started to believe they had the great relationships, they would get more business.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so I've seen that happen a lot.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they go above and beyond, don't they?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like the amount of calls we get at 9 10 at night just from advisors, just because that's what they're used to.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: If their client contacts them at that time, they're available, they're ready.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that's hard to live 24-7, isn't it?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because as an advisor, you don't even really get weekends.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, do you?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: You don't.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_04: I think you've got to be aware that um probably with clients, stuff comes into their heads at weird times.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes it's on weekends when they're not working, they're sitting there, and sometimes, if I'm really honest, it's a press article going, What does this mean?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, I remember meeting one particular advisor very well.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_04: He did some work for me on the budget day.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we met them at eight o'clock in London.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: I spoke to them at half past nine, they'd just finished at night because it's budget day, and he told me it was a lifestyle business.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it is, but when it's a lifestyle that needs sorting out, you sort it.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_04: So to answer your question, should we have new newer people into the industry?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely right.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_04: I'm great to see some of the younger people coming into the industry is really good.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: And it's probably the biggest issue the industry's got is how do we get newer people in.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's lots of debates.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: How many people we could argue say some some of 30,000, 31,000 people in the industry.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_04: How many of them are over 60 is quite a high percentage.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: So they're looking about what do they do, how do they look after the clients.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's a biggie.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_04: In reality, we all know every um provider is trying to crack, you know, be it with the academy of this or the academy of that, they're all trying to do it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: And in terms of we've spoken around cash flow, something you've seen change for the better.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything you think in your nearly 50 years in the industry hasn't changed and it hasn't changed for the better rather than something which hasn't changed because it's too hard to do?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a really good question.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think if you go back um when I started all those years ago, the industry was a different industry.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um I don't even remember there's an article many years ago by Ned Caslitt called Polly Put the Kettle On.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_04: Very interesting article, and I reread it recently, where basically he's saying all the industry is doing is moving money.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_04: When I started, there was no transfer market.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: It was all about Dave, you need a pension, have a pension.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_04: You haven't got life cover, have life cover.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: So the market when I started was very much in its infancy.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_04: It was about getting people to save for retirement.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you needed to build a fund.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't money to move, you needed people to build money.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: So where I started was very much um product.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: You go and see Dave, hey, it's a bit of a fan packet.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you what, you need to put that in.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm slightly exaggerating to make the point.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_04: But actually, that started the ball rolling.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I think what you mustn't do is people came holier than thou now.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: The industry was different in the 70s.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: Was it right or wrong?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: It was appropriate in the 70s.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_04: No different to the mobile phone industry.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: When I bought my first mobile phone, I it was just it was such a different industry.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_04: But what's changed for the better is definitely people are now far more qualified.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: There's more checking of stuff, which we can come back to, I'm sure, at some point.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: The bit that I worry about is the industry has now moved to such an extent.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: If there's only 31,000 people in the industry, my late father-in-law worked for London and Manchester in the industrial branch going around collecting money.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: People used to take the mick out of them.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: They did a brilliant job.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: And my nervousness was I sit here looking back over 50 years is the advice gap is getting bigger.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Not smaller.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so it's getting bigger.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I watch my eldest daughter is now in the process of moving house.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's a nightmare.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_04: When we got a mortgage, it was a piece of cake.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: Now a mortgage is a pain in the ass, but monthly, I know not elsewhere, arse is okay.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: I've checked, I checked with the woke woke people, and it's all okay.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: But so but do you see what it means?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_04: So my brother, who's an estate agent for 47 years, would say when he started, he used to move after eight weeks.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_04: Now four to five months.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: Because all the legislation is creating more and more hurdles to get to the end result.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_04: So a great example is um, and I could get really on my hobby horse here, um, money laundering is very interesting.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: Because money laundry just goes on and on and on and on.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: So uh Leanne, you know, it it's it's ridiculous.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: And what you've got is so we had it with Nicole's mum and dad when they moved, they were 88 years old.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_04: We had to take them to a solicitor to swear on FADAD they never had a problem m uh getting into the house over the last 56 years because somebody thought there's something wrong in the lease agreement.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: What rubbish?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I think the bit that's got in the way, legislation is good, but I believe now legislation's gone far too far from the FCA's point of view that you're creating barriers to entry that I don't think are right.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: So some of the products should be far more simpler advice processes than it than it currently is.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think the barriers are for the client, for improving someone's finances, for the advisor, a bit of all of it?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like right.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um somebody sits up and says, what we need to do is do this just in case.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: And the chance of it happen is 91%.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_04: So but that then becomes the rule, Dave.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: So in other words, at the end of the day, being perfectly blunt, if you see a client who's let's say 40 and hasn't got a pension, bit of clue, he needs a pension.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: So let's not argue that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_04: We need but then you can see what they have to do to just right.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: Why doesn't he need this?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: Why doesn't he need that?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_04: What about this?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_04: What about that?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I think what's happened, Dave, is they've they've created legislation which is right to protect the consumer.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely right.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not denying that, but actually it's got to the stage now of we had a bit of a laugh beforehand.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: If I give you, if I give a company money, uh they're custodians of, by the way, my money.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: My money, not their money.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: So you've got people who put money into an ICE, they want it back.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: Then you're the thing this partner has to or advice has to do, justify by needs to take the money out the ICE.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's my money.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: So why have I got to create all those rules?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's my money.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I remember I'm not taking the we used to have a bit of a conversation years ago when you had to justify your tax-free cash.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_04: I've never seen so many boats bought in Birmingham.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: I'm taking extreme examples.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: So, what you've got is legislation, which is right to protect consumer, is now almost, I think, beginning to bite back.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because you've got so much legislation, I feel really sorry for advisors.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's not what they know that's relevant, it's what they don't know.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_04: Or don't know.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: Or what is the now flavour of the month.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_04: So if you've got protection, you know, I'm a massive fan of protection.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, at the end of the day, is if you start with financial advice, you should protect your assets.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's your income, your health, or whatever.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: You take out protection, what you have to do for protection policy is unbelievable.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_04: All you're trying to do is say, right, if they die, there'll be an amount of money paid to their widow.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's not complicated.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's where I think it's got really, you know, don't get me wrong, it was a bit of the Wild West.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_04: Of course it was.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: But that's what you you have to start somewhere in the industry.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_04: So where we people can go back and say, oh, yeah, you know, um, we used to have capital units, you posting days of capital units.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_04: People should take the mick out of them.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but then if you looked at the reduction yield, the reduction yield wasn't bad.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: I accept that if you stop the payment, there was an issue.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_04: But some of those policies from way back you guys know are very, very good because actually they reinvested the annual management chances.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_04: So you've got to be very careful that everything gets missed in the in the round.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_04: So my argument would be and I'm sure the FCA look at this and they'll come and talk to me.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, has anybody in the FCA actually gone out with an advisor to see what it's really like to sell a protection policy?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's when it's really eye opening.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's when you actually sit with An advisor and see something happening, you you just go, where have we gone as an industry?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: Oh I absolutely and by the way, uh like I said, I'm all about protection of the consumer.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_04: But when you get to the stage whereby you know we were just talking joking, weren't you?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_04: 35 reason why letters, whatever pages the reason why that whoever reads it, nobody.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_04: Well actually teachers do, and I'm married to a teacher because they have to read everything.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_04: But apart from teachers, whoever and I'm not saying that I'm not trying to defend it, I'm just trying to say it's a statement of fact.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that like you said, there's a fine line between when you are trying to use protecting of the consumer, but actually does it create harm for the consumer?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because now they don't actually understand it anymore, they've just got a longer letter.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: They they don't necessarily know what they've got and why it works for them and how they're going to use it, but they've got a lovely long letter that's got lots of text in it that they haven't read, they haven't engaged with because it's a long letter.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: So is that actually better?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or have we ended up with a focus on well, it's fine because we can protect ourselves because it is in that letter?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um perhaps I use an example outside to come back in.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_04: You're probably too young.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you're probably too young.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_04: Oh god.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: That's harsh.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_04: Harsh.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_04: Robert Maxwell.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: We had a lot of problems with Robert Maxwell.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I remember him, yeah, sadly.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: So fortunately, you might have a point.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've watched a film on him.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, thank you.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: When you get in your haircut, yeah.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_04: But it's a bit swimmed, didn't you?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, so if you think what happened with final salary schemes on the back of Robert Maxwell, it was horrendous because what you did was protect, which is absolutely right.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_04: I remember seeing an article saying, okay, I know the schemes have come back, they moved away from a lot of equity because they were worried about the downside, not the upside.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot of I see now risk is around managing it.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think if I look at the industry now, a lot of investments become very vanilla.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: So they trade in a corridor.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_04: We could argue about whichever company will come up with a portfolio that does this.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_04: Years ago, you know, we I started in the old pension managed days.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know what?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_04: I've got a client that had a pension managed fund.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: The return they got over 30 years was breathtaking.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: Because they stayed in it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: So what you've got now is a lot of people managing the downside more than the upside, which I understand, but there comes a point whereby at what point does it become so vanilla that it's boring?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_04: So if you go back the old days, and I don't think they'll ever come back to the you know, you used to have fund managers, you knew all the fund managers, those days have gone.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_04: They all work on algorithms, they all have a process.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we could sit here today and have 20 fund managers come in, what will they tell you?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: Now's the time to invest, and our fund's the best fund.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_04: I've summarised all investments, by the way.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's true though.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_04: But you have you ever seen a fund manager come and say, now's not the time to invest.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_04: And if you look at it, so I've taken if you look at me, I've invested in 2004 when I joined SJP, never done a fund switch.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_04: We've talked about this before because I've never done a fund switch.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_04: Because I've been in long-term investments.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_04: What happens is noise gets in the way.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I think where you're getting now is the businesses um all consumers.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's a bit like we've had conversations before about why do so many people end up sort of middle for diddle.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because they do.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: What's your attitude?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_04: So it's sort of about there, and you can argue, you know, all the questions in the world, but you'll get a client that will go, it's a sort, and we know that there's a bell chance, isn't it?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_04: Most of them are going to be in that bell.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I think for me, having the the key driver for what's going to be successful and has been successful and will be successful is the relationship the advisor has with the client.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_04: That has is hasn't changed.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I know partners from my Hamburg life days who've still got clients from 35 years ago.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: And those clients love that partner or a visor or an IFA.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: I used to know there's a living legend, I was very lucky enough to know him and became a bit of a mate of mine called Alan Steele, Alan Steele asset management, an amazing character who actually passed away far too young through COVID.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_04: He was just breathtaking.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_04: He was a breath of air, so technical, but boy was he funny.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_04: And he always used to phone me on the train to take the mick out of me because he knew I couldn't respond.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_04: But that's what he did.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: I loved it.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: But he also started thinking about he talked about investments like a football team.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know about a team we were talking about earlier on.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: So he'd have, you know, what you need is a goalkeeper.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: That's your cash.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_04: And he built up a lovely story around a football team.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_04: I still remember it to this day.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_04: He would be horrified how all the portfolios have sort of become defenders.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_04: Almost, yes.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: And if you try, you know, because you guys deal with both Tide agents in IFAs, if they go outside the norm, it's a nightmare.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I think if you look back, I was talking about this, you know, when I was at Hamburg Life, we we were in the broker department, we used to go and fight for business.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_04: Now all businesses run on some form of platform.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_04: Doesn't matter if you're you've done a lot of work with IFAs, what have they got?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_04: They've got a platform that's got funds.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: If you go to something like Open Work, well, open work, a platform with funds, St.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: James's Place.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: But let's not kid ourselves where the market is.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: And the best thing the market should do is work as one, not against each other.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's the thing that I found most depressing.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we should all work as one.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_04: Getting a client to do something is really relevant.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: And there's lots of talk about costs and everything, but at the end of the day, you have to be clear that a client needs to take a long-term view on their investments and the relationship they've got with their advisor.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's really important because I've looked at some, I'm doing some work with some IFAs, which is absolutely fantastic, great fun at the minute.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: But they've got a platform and they've decided to use, say, Morningstar or whoever, and that's what they're doing.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: You try and go off that thing.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: Compliance is like Red Bull, you know, you know, everybody's charging in, you can't do that.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_04: You're going, but have you met the client?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: Met the client.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's the so everything's done almost too process driven, I think, at the minute.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_04: And that's just a put very personal opinion, by the way.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we've talked there about some of the problems with the industry, but one thing, you know, growing advice gap, aging advisors, process, propositions, compliance.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: But one thing which can be said about the market is there's probably more new entrants at this moment in time than there has been in the 50 years we've been involved.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: So against that backdrop of all those problems, why do you think is still an industry so many people are looking to get involved in?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think the big thing is you're absolutely right.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_04: And the years we've I've been around, you know, we've seen people come, people go.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_04: Hamburg Life is now open work, true potential, intrinsic, quilters, everybody's in there.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: So what you're seeing at the minute, I think, is people I think we're at a crossroads in the industry.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_04: And it's a really difficult crossroads to be.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_04: Technology is going to drive future businesses.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_04: And by technology, that's about cost savings.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: So what you've got is new entrants deciding to come into the market because the market for advice has never been better.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_04: Can we, you know, I'm not I'm most positive about that.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: The market for advice, I want to re-emphasize it, has never been better.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_04: Years ago, Rob Compton, who looks after me, wouldn't be looking after me because I brought up my tax recash, bought my annuity.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_04: He's now giving me still giving me advice.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: So I think the new entrants are looking at the market, going, right, there is so much money out there in the market, which there is, we know there is.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: If we come out with a proposition that's right for the it has to start from a client perspective.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think it has to be client-centric.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: Is that proposition going to stack up in the market?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: Therefore, what they do is come out with a new proposition.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's what's happening.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_04: So the marketplace is just in another bit of not turmoil is a wrong.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'd say it's a bit of turbulence going on.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_04: If you've been on a plane, you know, you get a bit of turbulence, we're in that turbulent market.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_04: What will this mean longer term?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: Longer term, I think everybody, as I say, will have to sharpen their pencils.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: You should never ever um I'm perhaps blunt, which is nasty.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_04: I believe the relationship sits with the partner, it doesn't sit with a provider.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: I think too many providers believe that they have the relationship with the clients.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_04: They may have summoned relationship, but the key relationship sits with the advisor.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: Keeping the advisors happy, and by that I don't mean throwing money at them, just keeping them up to date with what's going on, understanding where the market's going is important.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: And if you go back, you know, it why did intrinsic start?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because people came out of Hambro Life, Ally Dumbo, or Zurich, to set up intrinsic.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: You go back to our days when we were at St.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_04: James's place, JRA, how'd that happen?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: Mike Wilson decided he wants to create a unique brand in the marketplace.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_04: What does he do?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_04: Create new unique brands in the marketplace, and then basically recruited people from the industry to join.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's sort of going on again at the minute.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_04: What I would want to say to anybody is you have to be really careful making any decision in the marketplace.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, everybody will promise you the world, reality is what does it mean for you, and most importantly, what does it mean for the clients?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, you've got this turbulent market at the minute, and I find it uh interesting, sometimes I find it fun, and sometimes I find it pretty depressing, if I'm really honest.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: Because my industry starts with, or my start is what is the relationship I've got with that client?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: Too many times we're talking about, oh, how do I sell the clients, or what I think that's uh it doesn't feel at least a little bit of best taste in my mouth.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_04: At the end of the day, you're a business, it's a bit like you guys, your business is your business.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_04: How you sell it is how you sell it.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's just at a value.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I think we're at the I do think we're at the crossroads at the minute, and I think that's mainly driven by some serious new entrants in the market that are disruptors.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_04: Disrupts in the marketplace is good, by the way.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's really good because it means that you have to keep your wits about you and you have to really see to be adding value to the relationship you've got with the client and the advisor.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: Because um, the one thing that hasn't happened in 50 years, I haven't seen anybody create a brand that gets clients direct.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: Do you see what there's no product provider in that marketplace?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_04: The interface is still the advisor.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: So in reality, if us three and Julie in the background could come up with a stonkingly good idea of getting a product to market where we had no distribution, we'd coin the market.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_04: I haven't seen anybody do it.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, there's a bit of do it yourself, but there's no one brand that's gone, we are that brand.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_04: Now it may might happen, and I think this is to do with Gen Z and all this stuff I don't really understand, as Dave knows.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_04: Baby booms rock, that's all I need to worry about.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_04: But it may be there where that's the next thing that comes through.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_04: But I haven't seen that happen.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_04: And that's quite interesting given all the years I've been there, all the talk about it hasn't happened.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on I guess the challenge you've got is some of this is about confidence, isn't it, as well.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: So there are many things you can do yourself, and but some people have the confidence to do it themselves.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Some people will be, even though I can do it myself, doesn't mean I want to.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's some of the challenge.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then there is And it's getting more and more complex.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is absolutely changing.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Even you know, we found a way to make cash ourses more complicated.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you've summed up the biggest I there's a lot of rumours that I made my career out of A Day.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_04: And the problem answer is I probably did have one presentation, it was A Day, okay.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_04: As you guys know, pension simplification.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_04: What's the one thing it hasn't been?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Simple, yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: I've never quite landed.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I did make a career out of what you know, somebody told me you had one presentation.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_04: I had one presentation, but it was a very good presentation, okay, and I've got very well paid for it.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: So in reality, the biggest issue you've now got is the thing that's had the biggest impact, I think, on the one of the biggest impacts on the industry is legislation and government and not leave it alone.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_04: Now, I would say one of the things that government did well that I was probably a little bit cynical about has been auto-enrollment.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's been a good good success.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was a bit more people are saving in a pension now than ever before.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_04: So it's got to be a massive tick.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_04: But now, can you imagine with some of the pension legislation?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_04: Somebody talked to me about this the other day.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_04: You've now got pensions that will be potentially you've got IHT to pay.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh you're the experts on this, and this is where my eye skinning.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I believe you have to pay your uh IHT within six months of death, okay?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: You've got ten pensions.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_04: Good luck.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Some of which are invested in property, which you haven't got as liquid.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I think what you're starting to see is, you know, even I will go, well, just pay the tax and have a lump sum.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I think there's some really so I think government have got a lot to answer for that's positive, but at the minute, huge amount of negativity.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And the trouble is they're changing more frequently than ever before as well.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: So everything changes and changes and changes.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_04: And that's whereby unfortunately, if you run an existing book, legislation goes back 20, it can impact you 20 or 30 years clients away.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: If you're a new book, it's different.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: So that's why I think some new entrants come into the market.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Can be a bit more nimble.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_04: Agile a foot.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you're absolutely right.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_04: It makes it look more simple, but it's absolutely it's not any more simple.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_04: But but the you go back to the old hosting days.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um very when we started A-Day, when we started, well I started, didn't I?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: When we did A Day, reality is when we had problem people's problems with lifetime allowance, the vast majority of those people who had problems with lifetime allowance had a D B pension.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_04: Very rarely was it a DC pension because they never put enough money away to do it.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it would have been unusual a fund of that size.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: And even today, I still think that's a little bit, because it's for all we talk about, it is really difficult to say, right, you you know, what as some people say, whatever your age is, divide it by two, that's what you'd be funding your pension.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: I've heard that before.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, that's 35% of something that's not gonna happen.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_04: So what you've got is you've got all this stuff going on, but there's an awful lot of stuff that is bulk standard.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they're well under a million pounds, they can take 25% of the fund.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think the argument is, you know, what's probably come back into the argument more now than ever before is annuities and how does annuities sit because the rates are better?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_04: Do people want, you know, as you get older, I think one of the things the industry has got to face is dealing with older clients.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I know this and you get vulnerable vulnerable clients.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_04: I don't mean vulnerable, I just mean old.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so in other words, I think people's attitude to risk changes as you get older.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_04: How do you manage that?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: But your emotions are different as well.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you touched on this, didn't you?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: At 70, having retired for the last 15 years, your emotions on your finances, your family, what you want to do are different now than they ever were before.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a numbers game, that's an emotions game, isn't it?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_04: Most people know that uh I was very lucky enough to know Mike Wilson, he's a bit of a legend of mine, and I I think the industry owes Mike a huge amount.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: He's done more for the industry, I think, than most people.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: People might not like him or what he did, but actually for me, he was the he was the pinnacle of the industry.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_04: And he said something to me once, um, because he used to call me Pricey, which is lovely.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Pricey said the problem is um we like to give with a warm hand, our parents like to give with a cold hand, and he's absolutely right.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_04: So the generation coming through, I just said, I'm very lucky, I've just been away on holiday, I'm through my daughters out.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: We like to experience them joining enjoying the money, yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's the biggest thing.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_04: You if you look at I call it BOMA, bank of mum and dad, it's the biggest impact in the industry.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_04: But also, I think that's where great advisors come in in a different guise.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's not just money, it's managing the emotional side of it.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_04: So, Rob, you know, I was I was away with Rob and I clicked on, looked at a wealth account, and oh so he basically said the holiday's free, and it's not, but you know, with the wealth account out and go up.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's what's changing in the industry now.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: So older people like me are wanting to enjoy our money with our family, and that's lovely.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, my daughters have seen the bank and mum and dad be it, you know, why did I take my final side of scheme at 55 so I could fund the girls for university?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so they've they've had a lot of bank and mum and dad, so they come out of university with no debt.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_04: What a lovely thing to do.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: And Nicole and I were reflecting on it, massive tick.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: But now, well, in fact, Nicole writes them being there because I don't think she wants to spend three weeks with me.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'm really honest.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know why I'm trying to lie.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_04: She just wants to three weeks with me, you should imagine.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_04: Not good, but watching their reaction is lovely, and I think that's what's changing.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: And you get all these you we almost sometimes we get too technical, and all you've got to do is sit down, funny enough, talk to people.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's the best thing you can ever do.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_04: What do you want?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_04: How do you want it?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_04: You know, yeah, how do you feel about it?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know, as an advisor, you have to do a huge amount of emotions.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Rob is younger than me, which who isn't, so he's got to deal with us.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_04: At some point, either Nicole and I will be dead, so he has to deal with that.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_04: At some point, Nicole, and both of us will be dead, he'll have to deal with that with the children.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: That's a quite an emotional roller coaster.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't think people understand sometimes being an advisor, you deal with so much emotion.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's always people go outside the industry, all your interest is investing money.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, no, that's irrelevant.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: That's a consequence of the relationship.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: But and it's it's almost so that some of the regulation we've talked around and compliance into drives you away from that emotion if you're an advisor and looking at things.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: We we've done a lot of work over the last 12 months with a couple of firms talking around how they're capturing their client data and specifically objectives.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, how many letters do you read where client's objective is I want tax efficiency?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: How how many clients have ever walked into an advisor and gone, you wouldn't have with Rob, I really want tax efficiency.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's about I want to enjoy these experiences, I want to fund my kids for the process.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: The what, the why, the when, not the product.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: The holidays, I want the it's not, and that I think the industry has lost sight of that a bit in the terms of how we try and package everything up.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's strange, isn't it?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because it has created an environment where the level of detail you need to provide has increased.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Personally, I'm not sure the quality of the detail has increased, but the amount that you have to put in there has increased.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said, you end up, you can lose that information in those discussions because you're so focused on and and the str the odd thing about that, and when you're talking about it for you, when you're having those conversations about what's important to you, why do you want to do it, what you're trying to deliver, who you're trying to deliver it for, when you have those conversations, the advisor will typically find themselves not having to really convince a client to do something because the thing they've got matches what the client wants.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not then actually doing anything other than playing snap.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: You've said, Yep, here I've got.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if you cut to basic, I'm just matching what I've got with what you've said you want.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's also slightly more than that in terms of that relationship being good and like that from the beginning, means you're more likely to retain the client.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking earlier about some of the case review stuff where if you boiled it all down, it comes from a breakdown of a relationship.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's fun.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: It it doesn't come because an advisor's done something underhand or purposely incorrect.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's come down because there's been a breakdown of relationship, and that's when people start picking and pointing and wondering about it.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: James, I remember us being involved in a particular client up in London.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_04: I can still remember to stay in Spencer House.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: We knew that we were right, but the communication to the client was wrong, so we did something about it, which is absolutely right.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think you're spot on.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_04: The way in which the business is going now is we have to talk about it's an individual relationship, it's not a mass one.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_04: I can remember I did do a client event, and I can remember I pontificated, I love that word, pontificated, talked to them, question.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_04: Then I sat down and hosted a table.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_04: There was a serious amount of clients' money on that table.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_04: Nice, lovely people.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_04: We spent 20 minutes talking about parking apps because that's what's relevant to them.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: Not what's happening in America with the top seven and just the ability to park the car.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: A faff about my permit, pay my phone, what's it ringo?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Which one is it?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Where am I?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right, what's the code?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Where's the code?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Doris, where's the code?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: On the site, right?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to walk to that now to find the code.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's hard, isn't it?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like my parents don't park where they have to deal with that.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: They will park if it's got a coin machine or they'll be able to do it.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we had an example.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: We went to Bristol with my daughter uh last week.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_04: We went to a comedy club.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's brilliant.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: Went to the same car park, used to be NCP, being taken over.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: You had to scan the QR code.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_04: Thank goodness Jessica was there.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: I would never have been able to do it.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_04: So I think what you've got is you've got people making decisions that all the that no, what you know, most clients, in my experience, are it's the money doing well.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_04: They realise that it's going to go down as well as up.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely right.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_04: But generally, is it doing that?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's what that's going to make me feel good about it.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's spot on.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um massive changes in the world at the minute.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you guys must have come across people with buy-to-lets at the minute.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: They're having real problems because by to let's really aren't working unless it's in a limited company.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's not advice, by the way.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very conscious of that.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_04: There's a generalization.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_04: And that's so the world's changing, but but underneath that all is people, and people want decisions.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know, uh I've always said this when you see a client, you've got to find out what's really going on in their world.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: All of us, if us four sat here today, something's going on in our world that's causing us aggro.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and not aggro, but something so I think from a client perspective some sort of stress, some sort of distraction, something that's affecting.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_04: I've also found out, it's hilarious to watch.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_04: Some clients get to an age and then they become so tight, it's unbelievable because they can't spend the money.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_04: And you're going, what's going on here?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: My dad?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:00
  unknown: Oh, yeah.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_04: So do you see what I mean?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_04: So they've almost got so you I think a great advisor can really help them.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: I used to host some client events when I was at St.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_04: James's place.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_04: I can always remember doing Barbered, the show truck thing.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's a fantastic client.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, the best bit of advice my advisor told me last year, I could stop work.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I did.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_04: He towed his caravan up behind his Range Rover.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_04: The last I saw him was comatosed, sitting on a bank, watching the horses having a great time.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: The advisor said, You can retire.
• 43:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_04: That's advice.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we've got to be very careful what advice is and what advice isn't.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I think some of that is, I think advisors today have to be far more what you guys are talking about.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_04: They have to have the knowledge of the product and have the intellectual intelligence to talk about.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does it mean for you?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: So and to spot the cues, I think the bit that we see a lot of and talk to advisors a lot about it it's spotting what they're not saying.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's spotting what the other person in the room is.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: We're seeing a little trigger, you need to see a bit more.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just that little snippet of
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Don't you think that's an indication of the industry we've got to help?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm agree with you.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Dave's been to my house.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very lucky enough.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: I quite like a bit of art.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_04: So around my house is a bit of art, nothing expensive, but good fun.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_04: I wonder how many advisors walk in and go, actually, what's the interested in?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: And if you talk to me, oh, I'm really interested in Nicole and the girls.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_04: I've got I've done everything.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: I've not done if I want to.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_04: I I'm okay.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: So watching Nicole and the girls, you've got to have those skills.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I accept that you've got the academic skills, yes, the personal skills bit of understanding when to push, when to you know, I was talking to somebody else this week about oh, I find it difficult.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, when you see a client, why don't you just say, right, I agree that we now got everything we need for me to proceed to the next level?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: Just ask a question.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: She can she couldn't thought of that.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: And it's all it is just so so is there anything else I'm missing, or or you're happy to say that LOAs, which are but then the problem is LOAs get sent out with DocuSign.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_04: I've got some stuff to do with corporate company and my company kept me.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_04: I have to wait for the end to come because I can't work out how to do DocuSign properly.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if you think I spend a lot of time with Dave and Julio and this time.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to say that's wrong.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_04: Do you see so in some ways?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_04: So what you've got to be careful is you're quite right that there's that the industry's, you know, if you said to me is the industry as good as it's ever been, I think it's the industry's brilliant.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: I think advice is needed.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think what we're seeing is what the value of advice is, i.e., how much that advice is worth on an initial point of view, yeah, and believe it or not, what the ongoing servicing needs to be.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: But that ongoing servicing is the word ongoing servicing.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: Doesn't matter who you are or what you are, you've got to deliver that.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_04: And you're quite right.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_04: That means the client phones you at seven o'clock on a Friday, you speak speak to them.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_04: Now, some people say that you've got to have divine.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, you but be very clear.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if a client has entrusted you, because if you think about it logically, it's the most weirdest industry ever.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_04: You come and see me and say, Ian, I'll tell you what, why don't you move, let's say,£200,000 of your pension to me?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, that's a great idea.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_04: What do I get?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_04: A policy document.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_04: That's it, isn't it?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's all down on trust.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you really think about it, if you think of the industry as it I got a bit of paper from Company A.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: And now I've got a bit of paper from Company B.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_04: But it's all about that relationship.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because if if you haven't got that relationship, it will not happen.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: And so the client, I remember we've seen, we've decided to pay an amount of money.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_04: There's a chap called Will Altman and myself there.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_04: That client had quite a lot of money with that with St.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_04: James Place at the time.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: The client was delighted.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: We re- we rebuilt that relationship very quickly because really it was a pro it was a process point.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_04: We could we knew we had, and he knew we had all the answers.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: But suddenly the light bulb came on.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_04: It was not worth arguing with him because it wasn't.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_04: So I think you're absolutely right.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: So if I said here, right, how's the industry looking?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_04: Brilliant.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we've got terms going on.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_04: We've still got clients who need and want advice.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: We've got still got clients who are, you know, trying to build funds up at retirement.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: But I think the lots it's lots to navigate for the clients and the advisors.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_04: The only thing I think, looking back, I think sometimes the industry created too many complex products for a solution.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think sometimes we got too clever, and some of the products have ended up to bite the people in the bum, and that should never happen with the consumer.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so there were some very sophisticated products that for the vast majority of people we should have left alone.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_04: And you've seen it with some of these footballers got involved in their film partnerships and all this sort of stuff.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_04: Very clever.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, if you do this and you do this, you borrow.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, the best advice I give to people is keep it simple.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I think some people overcomplicated, quite an easy solution.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's a bit like you guys are talking about inheritance tax planning.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_04: What's one of the best ways to do spend it?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: Start with okay.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: You can you can do trust and you do all that, but the you know, how many people understand it worries me, if I'm really honest.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_04: So keeping it simple doesn't worry me, it's great business.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_04: It is well done, Dave.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_04: But but but do you see what I mean?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_04: So for most people, keeping it simple is the best approach.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, there are sophisticated.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's probably a five percent of the market that's really complex, as my you know, I'd probably take a punt at it.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_04: The vast majority of us, what do we want?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_04: We want a good retirement.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_04: I had protection throughout my working life, I had critical illness, Nicole had protection throughout working life, and she had critical illness.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_04: We were lucky enough to work for providers that protection didn't need it.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_04: So we had the very basics of you know the famous financial services house, you build the foundations, you build the wall, you build the roof.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_04: People can't go wrong with that, Dave.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_04: I really do think that's keeping it simple is right.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_04: You've got some so complicated products out there, and they end up they usually end up biting people in the bum.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_04: And how many times have you guys said if it sounds too good to be true, it is?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_04: And we years later that was being proved.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: You touched on um value a minute ago.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever cared what price you pay?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's a really good question.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_04: I have an advisor.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um people find it amazing that I have an advisor.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_04: Then I go back, I've got four four five CSE grade ones, and I've got FPC one, two, and three and money laundering.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but your metal working must be pretty handy.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I think to me, value is a really indeterminate product to talk about.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_04: Am I happy with what I'm paying Rob?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely delighted with what I pay Rob.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_04: Because I want to do it.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's a bit like so so to me, people go, oh yeah.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a there is a value to the initial advice and the ongoing advice.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I think most of it's now most markets work within corridors, I think.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_04: And you'll always get somebody who said, they're charging too much.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um we could go, as you've just delighted and said, we could go for lunch, which I know hasn't been booked, which I'm really upset about, but don't worry about it.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_04: We could go to lunch from McDonald's.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_04: Or we could go to a top-style restaurant.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: We both get fed.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's about do you value that service that you're getting for the results it's going to give you over the medium to long term?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: So to me, it's always quantifying how that relationship works, and is that a value that's appropriate?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_04: And there's lots of discussions about it.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_04: You go on sometimes you go on LinkedIn, you can almost want to commit suicide with all people arguing about this and arguing about that.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: At the end of the day, the client can agree to yes to that figure or no to that figure.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit like I usually And then they can agree and still then be unhappy with it and feel like it's not quite delivering the value they wanted or expected.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_04: Spot on.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a bit like I um, okay, I'm a fairly relaxed type of person.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's a bit like when you see people moan about television programs.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_04: I've got I've got a button that turns a channel.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, do you know what?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_04: And then there's a big red button, I can just turn it off.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_04: So it's so to me, I think value is perhaps the most interesting thing going forward.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_04: I believe the relationship of the long-term value is what it's all about.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_04: So having so for me as a family, that ongoing relationship is where it's at for me.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_04: So the initial of building the relationship in to help pay for you know, and we have to be quite clear.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we have to be quite uh, I'm gonna use the word ballsy about our industry.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_04: We do give a great job.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_04: Now, people might argue about this point or that point, Joe's about it.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: I I don't like him, but I admire him, is the guy who runs uh Ryanair.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_04: Why he believes in his product?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_04: Doesn't he just so he believes in his product to the end degree?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I listened to it, uh Michael Leary.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_04: I listened to him recently uh because I was spending hours on T on Instagram that got lost in for an hour and a half, and he was talking about um So you can't do a QR code, but you're on Instagram.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen your Because that's just watching stuff.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: It is different, right?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: So he was talking about um free Wi-Fi.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_04: He said, Yeah, I can give free Wi-Fi, except I'd have to put a little dome on top of my planes, that impacts my fuel bill by two percent.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_04: He spends billions of pounds a year on fuel.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_04: So he's quite blunt.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_04: I can't do it because it costs too much money, or I have to pass it on to the consumer.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: He wouldn't give free newspapers because people wouldn't take it off the planes, which means it would cost him more money to clean the planes.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_04: So I was quite clear.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_04: He was very so people might I don't want to fly Ryanair.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: Don't fly Ryanair.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: He's got an argument is so I think we have to be very positive about what we do.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_04: We do a great job for those consumers that we deal with.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_04: That you can argue price on any product, any product you can argue.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_04: What you have to believe is is that a fair price for what I'm getting both now and longer term?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_04: And that's down to the advisor to articulate that.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_04: Doesn't matter if you're independent or tied, articulate that.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_04: You you know, in the marketplace, some people charge an Albi rate, some don't, some take a percentage.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody's there or thereabouts.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_04: If you look at it, most of the I used to love reduction in yield because I could understand it.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know I found reduction yield?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think about this the other day.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_04: Do you remember reduction in yield we used to have, isn't it?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_04: Your reduction yield is about 1.5.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_04: People could get that.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_04: We used to describe it, it's a bit like going to a bank.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_04: What do you mean?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you get a savings rate and you get a rate for borrowing.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_04: That's sort of what you're talking about.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I think in some ways, we we should just be quite it's costing you one and a half percent a year to have the product and the advice.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_04: What does that mean?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_04: Be blunt.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: That means you'll lose one and a half percent growth for everything you gain.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: Are you happy with it, yes or no?
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_04: If you're not, fine, go somewhere else.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't mean that arrogantly, but I think you have to be proud of what you do and back it.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_04: That's why Michael O'Leary, people probably hate him, but he's he's got the answers.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_04: So when I thought about it, 2% on your fuel bill, I think he was talking about a billion pound fuel bill.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_04: That's a lot of money.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_04: I can remember once, I've got so many stories, it'll be here for hours.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_04: It'd be the longest podcast you've ever seen in history.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_04: The guy at um they had a lot of feedback at Wagamers about prawns, the number of prawns in one of their dishes.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_04: So he wanted to increase the number by two, that cost them a quarter million pounds a year.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's the sort of thing you've got to get.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_04: You a business has to make, you know, you're you're because it's easy to think that something small doesn't cost very much, but it's the scale of the small, isn't it?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_04: And can I just go there's probably a really good point to go back to another area, which I'm not gonna talk to.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think as an advisor, you've got to realise sometimes it's the small things that really matter to the clients.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_04: So if you start taking things away that you had, clients really get upset about it.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_04: So they're losing, yes.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_04: That's how they feel.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_04: So we all do, right?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_04: So to me, if you've got a proposition, be 100% behind that proposition all the time, be consistent.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_04: So if client they so it's a consistency.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_04: So uh Dave Shootby House, there's a place in old town called Deacons.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I go to Deacons a lot as a jewelers over the years.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_04: We get Mr.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: Deacon's discount.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: I have no idea what Mr.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_04: Deacon's discount is.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_04: But I get something.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_04: But I get something.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: It might be nothing.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: It might be nothing.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or they just persuade me.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Really good marketing.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: But Mr.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: Price loves our discount.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_04: Or they bring up some.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_04: So I think for me, if you've got a proposition, be it like a great example is an airline.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_04: Airline.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_04: Uh forget business class, premium economy, economy.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_04: You all get there in the same time.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's what you get in that experience.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're lucky enough to fly, we just save some money and we just um went business class to Dubai.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_04: Why do I like going to business class to Dubai?
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_04: They pick me up from a house.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_04: And Nicole said, You don't pay for it.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: Of course we pay for it.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: But they so but they've got this building.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_04: We're paying for it within the tickets.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: You haven't got an explicit cost for that list.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: And do I you know it's in that cost?
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I think if you think of airline, what they're doing is they're trying to upscale.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_04: So you go from economy to premium economy.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_04: You like premium economy, you then go to business class.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_04: You get used to the scale up.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you don't want to turn left on the you it's it's all those things.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I think within you have to have a real strong proposition that really works and delivers because actually you're dealing with a significant amount of money, most of these people.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you you've got clients who've got what a quarter of a billion pounds of funds of the management, half a billion pounds of funds of the management for clients.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_04: That is huge.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of responsibility, absolutely right, a huge amount of responsibilities.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, going back to what we were saying earlier about new new entrance to the market, buoyant market.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: What we're also seeing, which probably hasn't been so much in certainly my time in the industry, is advisors looking more to move around.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can't open up a professional advisor or money marketing article at the moment without such and such firm as leaving this network to go to this um network.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what do you think those advisors should be considering if they're being tapped up or looking at the wider market and thinking?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, that would be upset the recruiters out there.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_04: We're tapping you up.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um Right, I think we need to go back.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm in a lucky position because of where I work.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I've described myself a bit like a football agent at the minute.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm getting some people coming to me and saying, What shall I do?
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_04: I am not recruiting.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I've been very clear.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_04: That's not in my raison dettra, but I am there to help businesses that I'm working with make decisions that's appropriate for them.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_04: The key thing has to be what's driven you to make start making this decision.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_04: And some of it's about the changing marketplace.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I think all businesses should look outside to be happy with where they are as well.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: Does it make sense?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because the grass isn't always greener.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_04: Let's be quite clear.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_04: So I think for me, if you are at a stage where you want to look outside, what is your driver?
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_04: What is the key driver for you as a businessman or woman to decide you want to move from, say, A to B?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_04: Because, like we said, all you're really doing is moving platforms.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_04: Let's be perfectly honest.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_04: So you're moving platforms.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, to me, I then really go through a due diligence process.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that due diligence starts with the whoever you're with at the minute, and do the due diligence on them to then look at the other providers to see if it works.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_04: You've then got to really, really analyze the new proposition, how it would impact your clients, because that's the starting point.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_04: Is this right for my clients?
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_04: If it's not right for your clients, don't go.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_04: But you have to go through a very, very strong due diligence process, understanding the implications to your portfolio.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_04: Let's say, for instance, you've got a lot of cases that are, for instance, I don't know, bonds.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_04: You're not going to move bonds.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_04: So they're going to stay with the host company you're currently with.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_04: So understand what your client bank's made up of, what the impact is going to be, and really, really analyze the person or the provider you might be going to.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_04: What are they going to do?
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_04: How are they going to do it?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_04: What's the future look like in five years' time, etc.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a real, you're quite right.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_04: When there's a disruption in the marketplace, people FOMO, they're fear of missing out.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_04: But be very, very, very careful.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very clear about this.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_04: Moving from A to B for some people isn't right.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_04: For some, given their business mix and what they want to do longer term, it might be right.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_04: But I think what it will do is, like I said, everybody sharpen their pencils.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's a number of calls people are getting, you're seeing it all the time.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_04: What we mustn't do is lose sight.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_04: The core market is an advisor going out, finding a client, and giving them good, solid advice both now and in the future.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I've never, you know, I remember meeting a client many, many years ago who had one and a half million pounds in his pension fund, which is quite a long time ago.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_04: One particular person was whinging that with hindsight he could have done this.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, But you didn't actually sell me the product 15 years ago.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_04: Hindsight's great, and that's the bit I get grumpy about in the industry.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_04: Because actually, the person that starts you on that journey is great.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_04: I accept that sometimes clients outgrow you.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's also a key business decision.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_04: But there's too much mud throwing about, oh, if only I'd done if only I'd done that, I'd be a multimillionaire because I would have put all my money in that bloody Amazon shares when they started off.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, a number of people said, Oh, did you know if you did it?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I know.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_04: We didn't.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_04: So let's not dwell on that.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I think for me, this knocking is not good.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_04: What it has to be is so is this a right move for our clients and for the business?
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_04: And don't rush.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_04: Really, you know, cut the ones I've been involved in.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_04: It's really a long process.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_04: Think about it.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_04: What's it gonna be like?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_04: Is it gonna be easy?
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's cash flow.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, there's there's 101 things.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_04: But the end of the day is as a business person, you've got to look around the market.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I think all providers should be aware of that.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't matter if you're independently looking at the proposition, tied looking up, you just gotta look at the market.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you know if you are a client, right?
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: You've got your funds, you've got an advisor.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is a slightly unfair question given Rob and your history at SJP.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: But as a client, what would you feel?
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'd go with wherever Rob went.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: So back to your advisor and me is more important than me and my platform.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because if Rob decided for his business that was right for him to leave, you'd follow.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: Very clear.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: Regardless of cost?
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_04: Uh probably because I know because I know what's going on in the market, I know.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_04: So at the end of the day is I need to be cost neutral in votes commerce.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_04: So I wouldn't want to be paying more.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm not too bothered about paying that much less in reality.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_04: But what I want is Rob, because he's the one that's the kingpin of our family.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_04: Because Rob's done the great job.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_04: He's got the family.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I can't emphasize this enough.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_04: Uh there was a lot of talk a few years ago about um uh what is it, intergenerational planning.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a bit of a misnomer in the marketplace, if I'm being honest.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_04: Because most people, most of my mates, are giving their money now.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_04: They're helping now.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_04: So this huge wave that people talk about, I'm not sure.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing is, you know, I've said to my dog, you know, but that's the cold hand warm hand point, isn't it?
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at if you look at intergen as only cold hands, then I think you've got a point.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at it as how do I engage with the family, how do I think about it?
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: Rob adds his value.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because he talks to the girls, he's got them as clients.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: They know your journey, he knows their journey, he is understanding both generations.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very clear that for me, it always has been that relationship.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_04: We were talking about some legends we knew from St.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_04: James's place before we started.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_04: We know they were quite difficult people, but they were brilliant in front of their clients.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_04: And their clients would walk through water for them.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because anywhere you go, it doesn't matter.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and all the client events I've done over the years, and I've done a lot, like you guys have, it starts with, oh, this is my advisor.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't matter if it's you know in the independent world, whatever.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_04: It they always start, oh, if you met Rob, this is my advisor.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's important to understand.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_04: Now I understand that behind that has to you have to sit a provider that is you know viable, you know, it it's it's got all the qualities that you want.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_04: For instance, you know, they they they adhere to all the rules and regulations, they've got capital advocacy and all that sort of stuff.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_04: But the starting point for me always starts there and always will.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_04: I I I I can't say that's what I'm saying.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: Some clients I don't think Ian's unique in that at all.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to a US hedge fund a couple of weeks ago and they were trying to get under the skin of what they call stickiness.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_02: So are the clients sticky to the network or are they sticky to the advisor?
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: And my and my view it is the advisor because that is where if you talk to a lot of people who have a financial advisor who are part of a network, they're not a client of the network.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: I am a client for that advisor.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: Where do they call first the advisor?
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: If they've got a problem, who's gonna sort it for them?
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: The advisor.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'll give you a great example.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh my mini.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_04: I use Dick Lovett.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_04: Dick Lovets are I use, I don't use Mini.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, true.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you you own a mini.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: I own a mini.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: You don't buy from Mini, you buy from Dick Lovett's window.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: And they know me quite well, so you know they're fun of me up in it.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because you keep swapping your minis.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I've got four of them.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_04: But but but but that's why they know you so well.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_04: That's why they love me.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_04: Red carpet.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I think so.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_04: To me, I think you you could have loads of people discussing this and getting different answers.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_04: The core one I go back to is the client events I've ever done, bit in the Tide World, independent world, it's all about that relationship.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_04: Why was Alan Steele so brilliant?
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_04: He built a business in Lithgow, which is between Glasgow and Aberdeen.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_04: He was brilliant with his clients.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_04: He was absolutely he was I know he was flying down to London to pick up clients.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because the Londoners loved him.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_04: Because he he was blunt and to the point, but he was brilliant.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely brilliant.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_04: And his objective was to make them last within the first 30 seconds.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_04: He told me that.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_04: Make the client last within the first 30 seconds, make them at ease.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yeah.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think so, brilliant man, br I learnt so much from him, good and bad, you know.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_04: But it but I think so.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_04: For me, I don't see that ever changing in this because otherwise, us four will sit there and we'll come up with a proposition that we can go direct to market without need for distribution.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_04: Because without the need for distribution, your margins increase dramatically.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_04: Because where does a lot of the cost go?
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_04: The distribution.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_04: We know that.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_04: So but that's it's a bit like you know, car companies are sort of trying to do that, but they still need an a put a building or something there for people to go to.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, I could go online, I'm sure.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_04: You and I could sit there, well, not your computer, your computer, and we could build a mini today and I could get it delivered.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_04: I can't be oh why would I do that?
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_04: I want to come and see Michael.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_04: Michael's my mate.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_04: He talks to me about my holidays, he talks to me about the car that's got a dent in it that we've got to get out of all the little things.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm very clear about that.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think I mean your relationship with your advisor is not unusual because I've met a lot of advisors, lots of clients that feel the same way.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: What would your advice be to an advisor who doesn't have that sort of relationship with their clients?
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do it.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise you won't have a job.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: But how do you think they do it?
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: If they haven't got because you've got a really rich relationship with your advisor, right?
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: You trust him, you tell him everything, you tell him the things that matter the most to the decisions he needs to guide you on.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: But not all clients and advisors have that relationship.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, what do you Think if you're coaching, you're mentoring a new advisor, how do you tell them that is a priority, but how do you tell them to do it?
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_04: Slowly.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_04: Because you've got to be very careful.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_04: Some people find it very easy to do.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm well known for talking lensely very fast, value for money as I always used to say it, um, and all that sort of stuff.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_04: But the real the reality is I think you go through stages there is a bit you you guys have known, we've met some very wealthy clients who go, I'll tell you what, I'll give them my UISA fund and see how we get on.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_04: I can get that.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_04: I can get that.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_04: Why would you suddenly give a million pounds?
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'll do an example, stupidly.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know ya.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_04: I'll test.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I think for me, it's about doing the things I I this is this is an old man comment.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_04: I've heard so many people saying you need to be authentic.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_04: They're always the people who aren't.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_04: If you're authentic, you don't need to say, okay.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm quite clear about that.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_04: I've spent hours with these people.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, we must be authentic.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_04: We are.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_04: So the thing is, you have to be yourself.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if we look at all the advisors we know, they're all different.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_04: And you sit there going, How can that person be successful?
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_04: But they are.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_04: So they find their uniqueness in the way that they deal with the client.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_04: We had a particular guy who was brilliant at dealing with pilots, for instance.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_04: He was absolutely superb at that because he got them.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_04: So he got on their wavelength.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's about just starting to think.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_04: I always when I present, when I presented, not present, I always used to put myself in the place of the audience.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_04: What would they want to hear?
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_04: And how many times have you been to presentations where somebody's got right, I'm not going to talk to you about, or and 240 slides later, you're going, Oh my god, I'm asleep.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_04: But so I always try and say, work out with clients.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, some clients are really difficult.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I remember going to the city to meet one client with a partner.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_04: He said, You've got 20 minutes.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, fine.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_04: So you've got to accept, you you've got to become a bit of a chameleon.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_04: You've got to know when to get, you know.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_04: I remember a living legend up in Yorkshire took me out to see a client and I up in Yorkshire, and I worked out pretty quickly the only way I was going to get out of that client is if I saw as much as he did.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_04: Really?
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_04: I remember being taken to an so many stories, being taken to see the top onion presuition from Morrison's down in Thetford.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_04: I arrive suited and booted.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_04: Not like Worlds of Gummage you had last time, Andrew Stokes, who obviously didn't find out what an iron is, but never mind.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I turned up down in Thetford and I go meet these farmers.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_04: They all arrive on quarter of a million pound tractors and t-shirts and they rip the what out of me.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_04: And rightly so.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_04: I can handle myself.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_04: So what you've got to be is appropriate.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_04: Does it make sense?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_04: If I'm doing a presentation, I used to be suited and booted.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's my armory.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I think you have to be appropriate.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the good advisors know when they're very early on in a client relationship if it isn't appropriate.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like they can't be that chameleon.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_02: They can't adapt to them.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a skill as well, which especially at the start, you can just hoover up wherever you can get, actually.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_02: But there's a skill in saying we're not going to work well together.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_04: Do you I think that's when you're successful?
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_04: When you can make that decision, you're absolutely right.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_04: There are people that will you cannot retro.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_04: I remember I've got so many stories.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_04: There's a guy Amber Life, he met a quite famous pop star and realised quite quickly he wasn't going to get on with him, walked away.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know what?
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_04: Right decision.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_04: How many times have you heard a partner say, I should never have taken that client on?
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or the opening is this is a really difficult client.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: Why are they a difficult client?
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_04: Because actually, I think a client relationship is much the client interviewing you to decide, can we work together?
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's what I'd always say.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's a two-way communication.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: Don't just that's like give it time to develop.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: Don't try and force.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I say with that lady I was from entering.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_04: Right, we've covered everything.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_04: Is there anything else I need to cover before we move to the next level?
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_04: Be honest.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_04: And if by the way, if the client doesn't want to deal with you, don't worry.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, don't take it personal.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_04: We all do, by the way.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_04: But you will.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but yeah, but from that point of view, absolutely right.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, with with all these new entrants and consolidators entering the market, do you think it's improving it or just reshaping it for the same thing with some different names?
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think it starts with probably put the cattle on with neck castle it.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_04: Still there.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_04: So all we're doing is moving money.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um just different.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm quite clear about that.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we've got to try drive new business, we've got to make sure people are paying funding pensions, we've got to make sure they're having protection policies.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_04: But the core of it, you know, most businesses were just moving money around.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_04: So to me, to answer your question, if we understand that Ned Caslip, which I do quite I quite like that came out because the group skiing businesses, what's happening is group scheme was being written, everybody's quoting new business figures, weren't telling you they're losing that as quick as they're getting on the board.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_04: That's why in fence businesses start talking about retention levels, which are important to understand what the retention of the funds are.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I think um is it improving it?
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think in a funny sort of way it will because everybody's sharpening their pensions, pencil pencils, so in other words, what they're trying to do is see how it will raise the bar, but it might not change the bar.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and which is great, and I'm very clear about that.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_02: And what do you think it might look in another 10 years' time when you're 60 years in?
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_04: Your probably hair will need cutting steel by then, but Ava will still be saying I'm gonna lose weight.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_04: So one of those isn't it?
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll still be saying you're funny.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_04: My hope is in funny sort of way at the minute, the driving force in 40 years, I've seen the death of the industry 50 years, I've seen the death of industry so many times.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_04: Guess what?
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_04: We're yeah now.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_04: Will the industry still be here?
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_04: Will it have changed?
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely right.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Will more people be likely to do see what AI does?
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely right.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_04: So your competition may not be Joe Bloggs, it might be an AI tool.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_04: But I there will still, I'm passionate about you still need advice.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and people say you would say that.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_04: The answer is I'm I'm bound to.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_04: Back to I want to represent the brand.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_04: And the brand I represent is the financial services world, which is advice, be it independent, tide, whatever you call it, it's advice.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_04: So to me, you've got to get behind that.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_04: You know, do we believe that advice is still going to be here in 10 years' time?
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Everything I'm looking at at the minute, yes.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, we know there's huge change going on with AI.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, but we're still here.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_04: So probably leave you with a optimistic.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_04: In 10 years' time, I'll be 80.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sure I need a Zimmer frame to get in here or whatever if I'm still here.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_04: But you've got to be enthusiastic about the market.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_04: The day you're not enthusiastic, don't do it.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_04: I'm bored with people grey and moaning everywhere you go.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_04: And but actually, being a financial advisor is a hell of a responsibility.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_04: And with that responsibility can come great rewards.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_04: But you and I know a lot of people don't succeed, and we should never, ever take anything for granted.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I get very grumpy, and you must have heard it, the client's only got 50 grand.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_04: What are you talking?
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_04: Only 50 grand.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_01: For everything they've got.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_04: And we mustn't, as an industry, lose sight of that.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_04: I accept there's margins to work on it, but we have to be enthusiastic.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_04: We have to believe that what we're doing is adding value to the client with that relationship.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, is it, when you hear some advisors say that, because some of them don't have 50 grand themselves.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely right.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_04: And and that's you know, so you know, if I said to perhaps this is a good way to leave it.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_04: If I said to any advisor who decides to listen to this war and peace, um we what we I'd say is make sure you practice what you preach as well.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, have the things you say they should have.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_04: Have you got a will?
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_04: So in other words, you you know that sometimes the decorator's house is the worst decorated house.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_04: Because by the time they get home, they can't do it.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_04: When I why did I get robbed?
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_04: Because when I got home, I couldn't be bothered.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I'd happily make sure that my stuff's in place.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know, some of the stuff is, you know, I I I I'm I'm gobsmacked by how many people in today's world still haven't got wills, still haven't got lasting power of attorneys, still haven't got the what you know, uh, expression of wish form completed in the right way.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_04: This is real basic stuff.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I think sometimes don't lose sight of the real basic stuff.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_04: But also, do you know what?
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_04: Enjoy it.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_04: Try and put a smile on the client's face because they're miserable.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_04: The world we live in is a hard world.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_04: I you know, generally think it's a hard world.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like I said, we my sat nav wouldn't work because I couldn't, you know, there's lots of things.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_04: But actually, when you sit in front of talking to somebody, make sure it's pleasurable.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Finance is a topic a lot of people don't typically discuss as well.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what?
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_04: They'd rather talk about their sex life.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_04: As you imagine with Dave, that doesn't take long.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Move quickly on some speed questions.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we we do always wrap up with some quick fire questions here.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, one word or one sentence, quick answers.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Challenge number one.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um when planning for retirement, which matters more?
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Money or purpose?
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Purpose.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_02: In one word, what is the biggest threat facing financial advice over the next decade?
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_04: Legislation.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: In 10 years' time, will there be more advice firms or fewer?
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_04: Fewer.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you were 18 again today, would you still choose the career you've had?
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, most definitely.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you very much for your time with us, Dane.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's been enjoyable.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_02: You've taken the mick out of Dave, so that's always always a good thing.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Always a successful podcast.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but yeah, thank you very much for joining us.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And to all of those of you listening, we will see you again next time.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.