Latest / Something Extra / Leading with Empathy and Agility w/ Michael Smith

Transcript

Leading with Empathy and Agility w/ Michael Smith · Something Extra

• 0:02
  Lisa Nichols: Chromosomes.
• 0:03
  Lisa Nichols: Little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions
• 0:08
  Lisa Nichols: that tell us who we are at birth.
• 0:10
  Lisa Nichols: Most people are born with forty six chromosomes, but each year in the United
• 0:14
  Lisa Nichols: States, about six thousand people are born with an extra chromosome, making them a
• 0:18
  Lisa Nichols: person with Down syndrome.
• 0:20
  Lisa Nichols: If you've ever encountered someone with Down syndrome, you know that they are some
• 0:24
  Lisa Nichols: of the kindest, most joyful people you will ever meet.
• 0:27
  Lisa Nichols: They truly have something extra.
• 0:30
  Lisa Nichols: My name is Lisa Nichols, and for thirty years, I have been both the
• 0:34
  Lisa Nichols: CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ally.
• 0:38
  Lisa Nichols: Ally has something extra in every sense of the word.
• 0:41
  Lisa Nichols: I have been blessed to be by her side as she impacts everyone she
• 0:45
  Lisa Nichols: meets.
• 0:46
  Lisa Nichols: Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have
• 0:50
  Lisa Nichols: witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the
• 0:54
  Lisa Nichols: world.
• 0:55
  Lisa Nichols: While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that
• 0:59
  Lisa Nichols: defines who you are.
• 1:00
  Lisa Nichols: Join me as I explore the something extra in leaders from all walks of
• 1:04
  Lisa Nichols: life and discover how that difference in each of them has made a difference
• 1:08
  Lisa Nichols: in their companies, their families, their communities, and in themselves.
• 1:12
  Lisa Nichols: If you liked this episode today, please go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you
• 1:16
  Lisa Nichols: listen and leave us a five star rating.
• 1:20
  Lisa Nichols: Before we get started, I'm excited to share that my book Something Extra is
• 1:23
  Lisa Nichols: now available.
• 1:25
  Lisa Nichols: It is rooted in the remarkable spirit of our daughter, Ally, and the heartfelt
• 1:29
  Lisa Nichols: conversations we've had on the podcast.
• 1:31
  Lisa Nichols: You'll find wisdom and practical tools to ignite the leader within you and
• 1:35
  Lisa Nichols: uncover your own something extra.
• 1:37
  Lisa Nichols: Visit something extra book dot com or find it at Amazon or in all
• 1:41
  Lisa Nichols: major bookstores to order your copy today.
• 1:44
  Lisa Nichols: I'm excited to have Michael Smith on the show today.
• 1:47
  Lisa Nichols: Michael is a partner at Forty and Partners.
• 1:49
  Lisa Nichols: Michael Smith, welcome to the Something Extra podcast.
• 1:53
  Lisa Nichols: I'm so glad that we could make this work today.
• 1:55
  Michael Smith: Yes.
• 1:56
  Michael Smith: Yes.
• 1:56
  Michael Smith: Thank you for, allowing me to be on.
• 1:59
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 1:59
  Lisa Nichols: I know it.
• 2:00
  Lisa Nichols: We're gonna have fun.
• 2:00
  Lisa Nichols: You and I originally met through HMG.
• 2:04
  Michael Smith: Correct.
• 2:04
  Lisa Nichols: The HMG Summits.
• 2:06
  Lisa Nichols: And, and then we figured out we knew other people in common.
• 2:10
  Lisa Nichols: So, yeah.
• 2:12
  Lisa Nichols: But I'm really happy to have you on today.
• 2:14
  Lisa Nichols: Now I know that you were born in Saint Louis.
• 2:17
  Michael Smith: Right,
• 2:17
  Lisa Nichols: Michael?
• 2:18
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 2:18
  Lisa Nichols: But then you spent some of your childhood in New Orleans.
• 2:21
  Michael Smith: Correct.
• 2:23
  Lisa Nichols: What are some do you have, like, some early memories of growing up that
• 2:27
  Lisa Nichols: really has helped shaped who you are today and the leader that you are
• 2:31
  Lisa Nichols: today?
• 2:33
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 2:33
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 2:33
  Michael Smith: I mean, especially growing up in, New Orleans, this would have been
• 2:37
  Michael Smith: back in the,
• 2:40
  Michael Smith: early to
• 2:43
  Michael Smith: mid eighties time frame.
• 2:44
  Michael Smith: So, early seventies into the mid eighties.
• 2:47
  Michael Smith: And so, a family lived down there.
• 2:50
  Michael Smith: And, of course, being down in the deep south, specifically in
• 2:54
  Michael Smith: Louisiana and Mississippi, there is a lot of racial undertones.
• 2:59
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 2:59
  Michael Smith: So the town that we lived in, was just a small town outside of
• 3:03
  Michael Smith: Slidell, Louisiana.
• 3:05
  Michael Smith: It's about forty miles from, New Orleans.
• 3:09
  Michael Smith: There was kind of an unwritten rule in that town that, if you
• 3:13
  Michael Smith: were African American, you were not welcomed in the town after,
• 3:18
  Michael Smith: the sun went down.
• 3:19
  Michael Smith: And so, which, growing up in that type of environment,
• 3:23
  Michael Smith: you you kinda see these these weird differences of
• 3:27
  Michael Smith: of how Parities.
• 3:28
  Michael Smith: And,
• 3:30
  Michael Smith: so there was a community of, African Americans that lived about five, six
• 3:34
  Michael Smith: miles outside of the town.
• 3:35
  Michael Smith: They weren't allowed to live inside the city limits.
• 3:37
  Michael Smith: And so it it really, it really I think impressed upon
• 3:42
  Michael Smith: me and of course my mom was very
• 3:46
  Michael Smith: much opposed to any type of racial discrimination and the subject
• 3:50
  Michael Smith: really, pressed into us that if we ever treated anyone
• 3:54
  Michael Smith: differently or less
• 3:57
  Michael Smith: then, even after she died, she might come back and kill us.
• 4:00
  Michael Smith: Oh, no.
• 4:01
  Michael Smith: So, I mean, she really kinda drilled that in.
• 4:03
  Michael Smith: And so Right.
• 4:04
  Michael Smith: I I definitely saw there was a, a difference.
• 4:07
  Michael Smith: And so I think it really impressed upon my life just, the
• 4:11
  Michael Smith: importance of individuals and irregardless of what
• 4:15
  Michael Smith: their ethnicity is, their race, their gender.
• 4:19
  Michael Smith: Everyone was, created in the image of God and should be respected
• 4:24
  Michael Smith: and and, Valuable.
• 4:26
  Michael Smith: As yeah.
• 4:26
  Michael Smith: And valuable.
• 4:27
  Michael Smith: Yes.
• 4:28
  Michael Smith: And loved, equally.
• 4:30
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 4:31
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, that's I love that.
• 4:33
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 4:34
  Lisa Nichols: Well and I also read somewhere where you had alligators
• 4:38
  Lisa Nichols: in your backyard in New Orleans.
• 4:40
  Lisa Nichols: Was there ever a close encounter with an alligator?
• 4:44
  Michael Smith: Well, you just kinda knew just to kinda steer clear of them, but, we
• 4:48
  Michael Smith: lived right in our backyard was the edge of the Honey Island swamp.
• 4:52
  Michael Smith: And so the Honey Island swamp is about a twenty five square mile swamp.
• 4:56
  Michael Smith: And, so a part of it, whenever it would flood during hurricane
• 5:00
  Michael Smith: season, of course, we had a pretty large fence that separated our
• 5:04
  Michael Smith: backyard from the swamp.
• 5:05
  Michael Smith: But it wasn't uncommon that during the flooding period, you'd see
• 5:09
  Michael Smith: ten, fifteen alligators sunning themselves just right on the other side of the fence.
• 5:14
  Michael Smith: And, and we could go back into the swamp, and we would whenever it
• 5:17
  Michael Smith: wasn't,
• 5:19
  Michael Smith: all flooded and and Right.
• 5:21
  Michael Smith: You know, it's dry during the dry season.
• 5:23
  Michael Smith: And we'd go, exploring out in the,
• 5:27
  Michael Smith: swamps and everything.
• 5:28
  Michael Smith: But, yeah, you just kinda knew to, you know, keep your distance from
• 5:32
  Michael Smith: the alligators.
• 5:32
  Michael Smith: And if you didn't bother them, they wouldn't bother you.
• 5:35
  Lisa Nichols: They wouldn't bother you.
• 5:36
  Lisa Nichols: Oh my goodness.
• 5:37
  Michael Smith: Very similar to what you might see in the Midwest with deer in your
• 5:40
  Michael Smith: backyard.
• 5:40
  Michael Smith: It wasn't that big of a deer to that big of a deal to
• 5:43
  Michael Smith: have a alligator in your backyard.
• 5:45
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 5:46
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 5:46
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 5:46
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 5:47
  Lisa Nichols: I I have to ask you because our nephew,
• 5:50
  Lisa Nichols: married a girl from New Orleans
• 5:53
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 5:53
  Lisa Nichols: A couple years ago, so we were there for the wedding.
• 5:56
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 5:56
  Lisa Nichols: And what about crawdad fishing?
• 5:59
  Lisa Nichols: Did you go crawdadding and, you know, fishing?
• 6:02
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 6:03
  Michael Smith: Oh, yeah.
• 6:03
  Michael Smith: And love, love seafood and and Yes.
• 6:06
  Michael Smith: Jambalaya and gumbo and and all of that.
• 6:09
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 6:10
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 6:11
  Lisa Nichols: Very
• 6:12
  Michael Smith: good.
• 6:12
  Michael Smith: But the the one the one downside to,
• 6:16
  Michael Smith: living down, in the swamp area of,
• 6:20
  Michael Smith: Louisiana was that I grew up with arachnophobia.
• 6:24
  Michael Smith: And so there is about every type of spider that you could ever
• 6:28
  Michael Smith: imagine living in the swamp.
• 6:30
  Lisa Nichols: Oh my goodness.
• 6:31
  Michael Smith: So, yeah, they would they'd be in your house a lot.
• 6:34
  Michael Smith: So they'd come up through the sinks and and, bathtubs and stuff
• 6:38
  Michael Smith: like that.
• 6:39
  Michael Smith: And it's just, and some of them were, some pretty big ones and and
• 6:43
  Michael Smith: some scary ones.
• 6:44
  Michael Smith: But, Mhmm.
• 6:45
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 6:45
  Michael Smith: So, I I I think I I think I really wanna overcome
• 6:50
  Michael Smith: a little bit of that, but you still have some some arachnophobia because
• 6:54
  Michael Smith: of that.
• 6:55
  Lisa Nichols: I don't blame you.
• 6:55
  Lisa Nichols: I have that too.
• 6:56
  Lisa Nichols: I don't know what it what it's called.
• 6:58
  Lisa Nichols: I know arachnophobia is spiders.
• 7:00
  Lisa Nichols: I don't know what it's called if you're scared of snakes.
• 7:02
  Lisa Nichols: That's mine.
• 7:03
  Lisa Nichols: I'm just like, I don't care.
• 7:05
  Lisa Nichols: My husband's like, well, that's a king snake.
• 7:07
  Lisa Nichols: That's a good snake.
• 7:08
  Lisa Nichols: I'm like, no.
• 7:10
  Lisa Nichols: No.
• 7:10
  Lisa Nichols: No snake.
• 7:11
  Lisa Nichols: No snake is good.
• 7:12
  Lisa Nichols: I'm just, really very afraid of snakes.
• 7:15
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 7:16
  Lisa Nichols: But, but I know that and then you moved back to Missouri.
• 7:19
  Lisa Nichols: And I know that when you started college, you started pursuing
• 7:23
  Lisa Nichols: banking.
• 7:23
  Lisa Nichols: Now this is really this is interesting to me, Michael.
• 7:27
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 7:27
  Lisa Nichols: You started pursuing banking, and then I switch I think you switched to theater.
• 7:32
  Michael Smith: Oh, I did.
• 7:33
  Michael Smith: I did.
• 7:34
  Michael Smith: So, so when I first went to college, I thought I wanted to major
• 7:38
  Michael Smith: in banking and finance.
• 7:39
  Michael Smith: And so the whole reason why is that, when I was in high school,
• 7:43
  Michael Smith: I'd go into the local bank with my, dad and I always
• 7:48
  Michael Smith: thought it was really interesting what the tellers did.
• 7:50
  Michael Smith: And and I guess I should say it was probably even in grade school
• 7:53
  Michael Smith: of what the Teller's did.
• 7:55
  Michael Smith: And, and I thought, well, that would be a neat job to have.
• 7:57
  Michael Smith: So, of course, when I went to college, I knew there was a lot
• 8:01
  Michael Smith: more into banking than that, but, went into, into
• 8:05
  Michael Smith: majoring in banking and finance and absolutely
• 8:08
  Michael Smith: hated it.
• 8:09
  Michael Smith: Hated it.
• 8:10
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 8:10
  Michael Smith: I just did not enjoy it at all.
• 8:12
  Michael Smith: And, and so, I was trying to figure out, well, if I'm not gonna
• 8:15
  Michael Smith: do that, what am I gonna do?
• 8:17
  Michael Smith: And so someone had recommended taking a theater class, and they really
• 8:21
  Michael Smith: enjoyed it.
• 8:21
  Michael Smith: Well, I've always enjoyed being on stage and and, singing and
• 8:25
  Michael Smith: acting.
• 8:26
  Michael Smith: And Mhmm.
• 8:27
  Michael Smith: And probably my lifelong dream would have been to be a Broadway actor
• 8:31
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 8:32
  Michael Smith: And be on Broadway and stuff.
• 8:33
  Michael Smith: But, but anyway, I went into those classes and absolutely
• 8:37
  Michael Smith: loved it, really enjoyed it.
• 8:39
  Michael Smith: And for three semesters, I majored in that.
• 8:42
  Michael Smith: And then one morning I woke up and reality kicked in that,
• 8:46
  Michael Smith: the likelihood you're gonna make a living in that, career,
• 8:50
  Michael Smith: which is probably one of the hardest careers to break into, let alone if
• 8:54
  Michael Smith: you break into it to remain successful.
• 8:57
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 8:58
  Michael Smith: And so, so even though I loved it, I just knew it probably practically
• 9:02
  Michael Smith: wasn't a career.
• 9:03
  Lisa Nichols: Going to pay the bills?
• 9:05
  Michael Smith: And and I'm vertically challenged.
• 9:07
  Michael Smith: I'm about five six, five seven.
• 9:09
  Michael Smith: So if you're gonna be a Broadway actor and be a leading man, you
• 9:12
  Michael Smith: generally have to be taller than the leading lady.
• 9:14
  Michael Smith: And, and so I knew I'd probably be relegated to a sidekick character
• 9:19
  Michael Smith: and and that would be fine, but, but it's still, you know, I wasn't
• 9:22
  Michael Smith: interested in, living paycheck to paycheck and
• 9:26
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 9:27
  Michael Smith: Not even being able to have that because you'll go to hundreds and thousands
• 9:31
  Michael Smith: of auditions, but you may land one opportunity out of all of that.
• 9:35
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 9:36
  Michael Smith: So someone recommended to me, they had, taken an introduction
• 9:41
  Michael Smith: to, criminology, and they thought that I would like that.
• 9:45
  Michael Smith: And, and and I guess I should back up just a little bit.
• 9:48
  Michael Smith: The one major I knew I did not wanna do in college was,
• 9:52
  Michael Smith: computer science.
• 9:54
  Michael Smith: I didn't really decide to do that at all.
• 9:56
  Michael Smith: And, and so I, yeah.
• 9:58
  Michael Smith: And I think it was just the, when I look at the individuals that
• 10:03
  Michael Smith: would, that were majoring in computer science, they were very highly introverted
• 10:07
  Michael Smith: individuals.
• 10:09
  Michael Smith: They had long hair, long beards.
• 10:11
  Michael Smith: They like to work in rooms with no windows, and they would rather talk
• 10:15
  Michael Smith: to machines than people.
• 10:16
  Michael Smith: And so, I'm a
• 10:17
  Lisa Nichols: And that was not you.
• 10:19
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 10:20
  Michael Smith: I'm a people person.
• 10:21
  Michael Smith: I like sunshine, so I'd rather work someplace with windows.
• 10:25
  Michael Smith: And, and so, so anyway, I I the person had
• 10:29
  Michael Smith: told me about, going into criminology.
• 10:31
  Michael Smith: I took that class and and, again, absolutely loved it.
• 10:35
  Michael Smith: And, and that's what I ended up majoring in was, majoring in
• 10:39
  Michael Smith: criminology with an emphasis in criminal profiling and a minor in communications.
• 10:44
  Michael Smith: And, and so I was actually on my way to the FBI.
• 10:47
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 10:48
  Michael Smith: I interviewed with them and, and all that went well.
• 10:52
  Michael Smith: But I didn't realize that, if you're gonna go and work for the FBI
• 10:56
  Michael Smith: or any type of federal agency, you either have to have,
• 11:00
  Michael Smith: prior military experience or three years of civilian work experience before
• 11:04
  Michael Smith: you can ever even apply.
• 11:06
  Michael Smith: And the reason why is because, of course, they require a background check.
• 11:10
  Michael Smith: And to the United States government, you don't exist as an individual until you
• 11:14
  Michael Smith: filed your own tax returns.
• 11:16
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 11:16
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, wow.
• 11:18
  Michael Smith: So they told me to go ahead and get a job and and in
• 11:22
  Michael Smith: three years they were gonna have a pretty large mass exodus of agents that
• 11:26
  Michael Smith: were gonna be retiring so they thought it was pretty good timing.
• 11:29
  Michael Smith: So now I had to find a job and ironically, ended
• 11:34
  Michael Smith: up working at a bank.
• 11:35
  Michael Smith: And, and they had a AS four hundred system, and
• 11:40
  Michael Smith: with an OS two operating system.
• 11:42
  Michael Smith: And, this administrator would drive in, multiple,
• 11:46
  Michael Smith: like, two and a half hours from Wichita, Kansas to work on, an issue
• 11:50
  Michael Smith: that would take them about an hour, and then they'd have to drive all
• 11:53
  Michael Smith: the way back.
• 11:54
  Michael Smith: And they do this six or seven times a year.
• 11:56
  Michael Smith: And, and this was before the remote diagnostics tools.
• 12:00
  Michael Smith: And so, so one time they were in the office, I said, look.
• 12:03
  Michael Smith: I don't have a clue what you're doing, but maybe it'll save you time
• 12:06
  Michael Smith: if you just call me, walk me through whatever you're wanting to do.
• 12:11
  Michael Smith: And even if it takes us an hour or two, it saves you five
• 12:13
  Michael Smith: hours on the road.
• 12:14
  Michael Smith: And you love the IT.
• 12:15
  Michael Smith: And so we've heard that a couple of times.
• 12:18
  Michael Smith: And and, after doing that, I thought, this is really interesting.
• 12:22
  Michael Smith: I this is not what I expected IT to be.
• 12:24
  Michael Smith: And and I think the same reason I enjoyed criminology, the whole analytical
• 12:29
  Michael Smith: investigative side was similar to IT, right?
• 12:32
  Michael Smith: You're you're trying to discover, figure out a problem or
• 12:36
  Michael Smith: an issue people are having and you're having to kind of troubleshoot and investigate
• 12:39
  Michael Smith: and kind of have have that analytical side of your brain
• 12:44
  Michael Smith: working.
• 12:44
  Michael Smith: And, so I ended up going back to school, and, Microsoft
• 12:48
  Michael Smith: was up and coming at the time.
• 12:50
  Michael Smith: And, one thing led to another, and and I haven't really shared this story
• 12:55
  Michael Smith: much.
• 12:55
  Michael Smith: But
• 12:57
  Michael Smith: when I decided to go back to school, my wife's
• 13:01
  Michael Smith: dad was a, librarian.
• 13:04
  Michael Smith: And he worked at a, he worked at several different places.
• 13:08
  Michael Smith: But during this time, he worked at a vocational technical school and
• 13:12
  Michael Smith: was the librarian there.
• 13:13
  Michael Smith: And they had a computer, repair course
• 13:17
  Michael Smith: that, I decided I was gonna take when I first decided that I thought
• 13:21
  Michael Smith: I might wanna go into IT.
• 13:23
  Michael Smith: And, and and the fact that he worked there, he could get me
• 13:27
  Michael Smith: a fifty percent discount off of the class.
• 13:30
  Michael Smith: Awesome.
• 13:30
  Michael Smith: Class was already pretty inexpensive.
• 13:33
  Michael Smith: It was like thirty five dollars and fifty cents for a semester.
• 13:36
  Michael Smith: And so I was able to get into the class for, like, less than
• 13:40
  Michael Smith: fifteen, sixteen dollars, of which my mother-in-law paid for it.
• 13:43
  Lisa Nichols: That's crazy, Michael.
• 13:46
  Michael Smith: And and the lady that was teaching that class, she she saw that
• 13:50
  Michael Smith: I was kinda picking up on this pretty quickly, and and I thought she
• 13:53
  Michael Smith: thought, well, maybe you would enjoy the IT industry.
• 13:57
  Michael Smith: And so then she put me in touch with a couple other people, and
• 14:00
  Michael Smith: and, and as I went back to school, then I started focusing on some
• 14:04
  Michael Smith: certifications with Microsoft.
• 14:06
  Michael Smith: And one thing led to another, and and before you know it, I was,
• 14:10
  Michael Smith: working in the IT industry.
• 14:11
  Michael Smith: And I've been in now for almost thirty years and absolutely can't imagine
• 14:15
  Michael Smith: doing anything other than than IT.
• 14:17
  Michael Smith: So I really enjoy it.
• 14:18
  Lisa Nichols: A good career for you.
• 14:20
  Michael Smith: It has.
• 14:20
  Michael Smith: You've done
• 14:20
  Lisa Nichols: really well.
• 14:21
  Lisa Nichols: You know, I'm just thinking to myself here,
• 14:25
  Lisa Nichols: what's the moral of the story?
• 14:27
  Lisa Nichols: Never say never.
• 14:28
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 14:29
  Michael Smith: Yes.
• 14:29
  Lisa Nichols: You're like, I don't wanna be in IT.
• 14:31
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 14:31
  Lisa Nichols: That's so funny.
• 14:33
  Lisa Nichols: And I think you, didn't you start your career with Quillogy?
• 14:36
  Lisa Nichols: We've known Randy Shilling for forty something.
• 14:39
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 14:39
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 14:39
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 14:39
  Michael Smith: So originally with BioTech, and then he had changed it to to Quill.
• 14:43
  Michael Smith: So, yeah, that was, that would have been my third job in IT.
• 14:48
  Michael Smith: So I started as a subcontractor with Sprint PCS, which was a
• 14:52
  Michael Smith: it's kind of a shoot off of Sprint corporate, back in
• 14:57
  Michael Smith: the late nineties mid to late nineties.
• 15:00
  Michael Smith: And, and so that was my first job, and then I went and worked
• 15:03
  Michael Smith: for an insurance company, as a network administrator.
• 15:08
  Michael Smith: And, while I was working there, I I really enjoyed the job, but the
• 15:12
  Michael Smith: person I reported to, they were just one of those,
• 15:15
  Michael Smith: just old fashioned leaders that really felt that the way to
• 15:19
  Michael Smith: motivate people was to yell at them and demean them in front of other
• 15:23
  Michael Smith: people.
• 15:24
  Michael Smith: And and I just thought that was awful.
• 15:26
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 15:26
  Michael Smith: That was awful.
• 15:28
  Michael Smith: Know and didn't like that.
• 15:30
  Michael Smith: And so, this was in Lawrence, Kansas, University of Kansas.
• 15:33
  Michael Smith: Jayhawks is there in Lawrence, and they were having a job fair.
• 15:37
  Michael Smith: And, and so I called up the university, and I said, well, I didn't
• 15:40
  Michael Smith: go to school there, but would it be okay if I came and participated
• 15:43
  Michael Smith: in the job fair?
• 15:44
  Michael Smith: And they said, sure.
• 15:45
  Michael Smith: It's open to the public.
• 15:46
  Michael Smith: And so I went there and took some, several copies of resumes,
• 15:50
  Michael Smith: and I'd walked around to different booths, and I had one resume left.
• 15:55
  Michael Smith: And I was actually headed out the door, and the last booth
• 15:59
  Michael Smith: right beside the back door was Sciutec.
• 16:03
  Michael Smith: And, and so I dropped my resume off there and talked to,
• 16:07
  Michael Smith: Bruce Rokay, which I don't know if you remember Bruce Rokay or
• 16:11
  Lisa Nichols: remember Bruce.
• 16:12
  Lisa Nichols: No.
• 16:13
  Michael Smith: And the head of HR at that time.
• 16:15
  Michael Smith: And, and so I met with him, talked with him.
• 16:18
  Michael Smith: And so, anyway, and then I left the job fair.
• 16:22
  Michael Smith: Didn't expect to hear anything back.
• 16:23
  Michael Smith: And and two or three days later, I get this call from the general
• 16:26
  Michael Smith: manager of of Sciutec in Kansas City.
• 16:30
  Michael Smith: And, they had mentioned that the HR head of HR
• 16:34
  Michael Smith: had provided the resume, to him.
• 16:37
  Michael Smith: And, and they were looking more for entry level individuals, and and and so
• 16:41
  Michael Smith: I was a little bit more experienced than what they were looking for.
• 16:44
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 16:44
  Michael Smith: But they still wanted to have a conversation.
• 16:46
  Michael Smith: And so I went into the office there in Kansas City, interviewed with them.
• 16:50
  Michael Smith: Long story short, they brought me on board as a consultant
• 16:55
  Michael Smith: and, and then was a, about six months later, was promoted to a senior
• 16:59
  Michael Smith: consultant.
• 16:59
  Michael Smith: Eventually, was up to a managing consultant.
• 17:03
  Michael Smith: And then about four years or in or so into working
• 17:07
  Michael Smith: for, Sciutec, and they had changed their name to Qualigy as well.
• 17:11
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 17:11
  Michael Smith: I rebranded that.
• 17:12
  Michael Smith: Then I had an opportunity to take over the Kansas City operations as the
• 17:15
  Michael Smith: general manager.
• 17:17
  Michael Smith: Oh.
• 17:18
  Michael Smith: I did that for about three years, before I I moved
• 17:22
  Michael Smith: on.
• 17:22
  Michael Smith: But, but, no, was I really enjoyed that.
• 17:25
  Michael Smith: I was with them for probably close to seven years.
• 17:28
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 17:29
  Michael Smith: Really well and still stay in contact with him.
• 17:32
  Michael Smith: I know he started a couple of other companies like Ford.
• 17:35
  Lisa Nichols: So much.
• 17:36
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 17:36
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 17:37
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 17:37
  Lisa Nichols: He turned the old post office, in Saint Charles
• 17:41
  Lisa Nichols: into, kind of a WeWork space.
• 17:43
  Lisa Nichols: And Mhmm.
• 17:44
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 17:44
  Lisa Nichols: He's he's a good guy.
• 17:46
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, we've we've known him for, a really long year
• 17:50
  Lisa Nichols: or a long time rather, several years, but a little bit different culture,
• 17:54
  Lisa Nichols: right, than the one that you came from.
• 17:56
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 17:57
  Lisa Nichols: Better culture, much better.
• 17:59
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 17:59
  Michael Smith: Yep.
• 18:00
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 18:01
  Lisa Nichols: I think they were really known for being people centric, people focused,
• 18:05
  Lisa Nichols: entrepreneurial, and I'm sure that that that fit with your personality
• 18:10
  Lisa Nichols: much better.
• 18:11
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I know that you spent nearly a decade at Thermo Fisher Scientific,
• 18:15
  Lisa Nichols: right, which was I don't know how big now, but, like, at the time
• 18:19
  Lisa Nichols: about a seventeen billion dollar, company.
• 18:23
  Lisa Nichols: What were some of the much, much larger.
• 18:26
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 18:26
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, what were some of those formative leadership lessons that you learned
• 18:30
  Lisa Nichols: in that, you know, ten year span, Michael, being in this large
• 18:34
  Lisa Nichols: global enterprise now?
• 18:36
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 18:36
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 18:37
  Michael Smith: I mean, I I I learned a tremendous amount, not only from
• 18:42
  Michael Smith: the leadership there at the company, but the fact that they were a global
• 18:46
  Michael Smith: organization.
• 18:46
  Michael Smith: Yes.
• 18:47
  Michael Smith: So I had teams that I managed in North and South America, Europe, and
• 18:51
  Michael Smith: Asia.
• 18:52
  Michael Smith: And so to be able to be opened up to the entire
• 18:56
  Michael Smith: world.
• 18:56
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 18:57
  Michael Smith: Because, I mean, I grew up in a small town in Louisiana, moved to
• 19:01
  Michael Smith: a small town in Missouri.
• 19:03
  Michael Smith: Went to college in Missouri, moved to Kansas, after college.
• 19:07
  Michael Smith: I met my wife in college, and we got married, right after college
• 19:11
  Michael Smith: and lived in Kansas.
• 19:12
  Michael Smith: And so, I had traveled to some states and things like that,
• 19:16
  Michael Smith: but not a lot.
• 19:17
  Michael Smith: And so, so, yeah, the opportunity to be able to travel
• 19:21
  Michael Smith: the world and meet all kinds of different people from different cultures
• 19:26
  Michael Smith: and different nations was just very, enlightening
• 19:30
  Michael Smith: and very eye opening and, and and and even more
• 19:34
  Michael Smith: so, even that much more appreciative of the fact that
• 19:38
  Michael Smith: we live in the United States and, and the freedoms that we have because
• 19:42
  Michael Smith: not every Not every country has that.
• 19:45
  Lisa Nichols: And That's right.
• 19:46
  Michael Smith: So, so learned a lot, about just from a from a global perspective.
• 19:50
  Michael Smith: But then, the CIO for Thermo Fisher, her name
• 19:54
  Michael Smith: was Ina Kamens.
• 19:56
  Michael Smith: And, I reported to her and she, became my mentor.
• 20:00
  Michael Smith: And, and so, I worked with closely with her for a
• 20:04
  Michael Smith: number of years at Thermo Fisher.
• 20:06
  Michael Smith: And and, the first opportunity that I had to be my own
• 20:10
  Michael Smith: CIO, after I had left Thermo Fisher, she was, the
• 20:14
  Michael Smith: individual that had provided me a recommendation,
• 20:17
  Michael Smith: to the company that hired me and stuff.
• 20:19
  Michael Smith: And so, yeah, it was it's, really
• 20:23
  Michael Smith: yeah.
• 20:24
  Michael Smith: I can't thank Thermo Fisher enough for just the opportunity and the experience that
• 20:28
  Michael Smith: I gained.
• 20:28
  Michael Smith: I worked in the data.
• 20:30
  Michael Smith: And,
• 20:30
  Lisa Nichols: so When you were when you were a CIO, when you left there, is
• 20:34
  Lisa Nichols: that when you went to American Academy?
• 20:36
  Michael Smith: Yep.
• 20:36
  Lisa Nichols: Yep.
• 20:37
  Lisa Nichols: Family positions?
• 20:38
  Lisa Nichols: Okay.
• 20:38
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 20:38
  Michael Smith: So I I played the role of, like, a segment CIO at,
• 20:43
  Michael Smith: for sure where there was over one of the one of their four operating
• 20:46
  Michael Smith: groups called the specialty diagnostics group, and it had three had six divisions
• 20:51
  Michael Smith: in there.
• 20:52
  Michael Smith: And, and I reported to the global CIO, which was Ina Kamens and
• 20:56
  Michael Smith: stuff.
• 20:56
  Michael Smith: But, yeah, becoming the the CIO, the top CIO,
• 21:01
  Michael Smith: for a company for the first time was with the American Academy of Family
• 21:04
  Michael Smith: Physicians.
• 21:05
  Lisa Nichols: And so yeah.
• 21:06
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 21:06
  Lisa Nichols: I've been
• 21:06
  Michael Smith: for about six and a half years and really led a
• 21:10
  Michael Smith: full end to end, not only digital, but operational transformation,
• 21:15
  Michael Smith: for that, company.
• 21:17
  Michael Smith: So, that was that was really
• 21:20
  Michael Smith: rewarding and a lot of fun.
• 21:22
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 21:23
  Michael Smith: Ended up winning the CIO one hundred award, while I was there
• 21:27
  Michael Smith: at the AFP for the the technology that we had implemented and just the
• 21:31
  Michael Smith: leadership there.
• 21:32
  Michael Smith: And then we were voted, one of the top
• 21:36
  Michael Smith: one hundred companies to work for in IT.
• 21:40
  Michael Smith: That's terrific.
• 21:41
  Michael Smith: And so That's terrific.
• 21:43
  Michael Smith: There was just a lot of, again, professionally rewarding and and a lot of
• 21:46
  Michael Smith: fun and a challenge.
• 21:48
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 21:49
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 21:51
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 21:51
  Lisa Nichols: Those awards are really important,
• 21:54
  Lisa Nichols: Michael, because, like, for the top places to work
• 21:58
  Lisa Nichols: in IT, one of the things that we're already always wrestling with, right,
• 22:02
  Lisa Nichols: is the attraction.
• 22:04
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 22:04
  Lisa Nichols: Of the talent.
• 22:05
  Lisa Nichols: And people want to work for those type firms.
• 22:08
  Lisa Nichols: So those are great, those are great things to have.
• 22:13
  Lisa Nichols: Do you I know that you did lead mergers, acquisitions, major
• 22:17
  Lisa Nichols: transformations.
• 22:18
  Lisa Nichols: Is there one integration story that really
• 22:22
  Lisa Nichols: stands out to you, Michael, that was just incredibly rewarding or
• 22:26
  Lisa Nichols: maybe challenging?
• 22:27
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 22:27
  Michael Smith: It'd probably be more the challenging side.
• 22:30
  Michael Smith: And this was one of the things that, you know, as as a leader,
• 22:34
  Michael Smith: you always want to be successful in what you do.
• 22:38
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 22:38
  Michael Smith: And so we were, implementing SAP, for one of the
• 22:42
  Michael Smith: business units that we're going to be that had recently been acquired, and they
• 22:46
  Michael Smith: were brought on board, and we were gonna implement SAP and bring them into
• 22:49
  Michael Smith: the fold.
• 22:51
  Michael Smith: And it was just an incredibly challenging,
• 22:55
  Michael Smith: project.
• 22:56
  Michael Smith: And I remember being on a call with, the global CIO
• 23:00
  Michael Smith: at the time and the president of that particular company.
• 23:04
  Michael Smith: And,
• 23:05
  Michael Smith: Ina was really recommending we need to put a pause on this project
• 23:10
  Michael Smith: and that we need to kind of regroup and kinda make sure we've we've
• 23:13
  Michael Smith: got full engagement from the stakeholders because it was just some of that was
• 23:17
  Michael Smith: just kind of, falling by the wayside.
• 23:20
  Michael Smith: And being a young leader, I thought, no.
• 23:22
  Michael Smith: I think if we can just keep pushing through on this, we're gonna be
• 23:25
  Michael Smith: successful.
• 23:26
  Michael Smith: And so, so she she went ahead and and allowed me to go ahead
• 23:30
  Michael Smith: and keep pushing that project forward.
• 23:32
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 23:33
  Michael Smith: And, worst mistake that could have ever been made.
• 23:36
  Michael Smith: And six months later, we're pausing the project.
• 23:39
  Michael Smith: And and it created just a we we eventually got across the finish line,
• 23:43
  Michael Smith: but it took a lot longer than what we originally thought.
• 23:46
  Michael Smith: But it was just a lesson learned that, individuals
• 23:50
  Michael Smith: that have, been in those situations before
• 23:54
  Michael Smith: and are providing wisdom and, advice of you know,
• 23:58
  Michael Smith: if they're if they're recommending to do something, then at least hear that out.
• 24:03
  Lisa Nichols: Really consider it.
• 24:04
  Michael Smith: Battle scars from being in those situations before.
• 24:07
  Michael Smith: And I think if we would have paused the project six months
• 24:11
  Michael Smith: earlier, per the recommendation of the global CIO,
• 24:16
  Michael Smith: not only would the project, have been completed even sooner.
• 24:20
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 24:20
  Michael Smith: It just would have not put a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
• 24:23
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 24:24
  Michael Smith: And Mhmm.
• 24:25
  Michael Smith: And trying to prolong, an effort that was just not going
• 24:29
  Michael Smith: to be successful until you paused it and reset everybody's expectations.
• 24:34
  Michael Smith: That was a big lessons learned.
• 24:36
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 24:37
  Lisa Nichols: Well and I'm just thinking about Ina.
• 24:39
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 24:40
  Lisa Nichols: You know, she was the type of leader that said,
• 24:44
  Lisa Nichols: I really do believe we need to pause this, but she did empower you
• 24:48
  Lisa Nichols: to go ahead, right, with what you thought.
• 24:50
  Lisa Nichols: So
• 24:51
  Michael Smith: Yep.
• 24:51
  Lisa Nichols: And sometimes that's why I
• 24:52
  Michael Smith: think she would have Yeah.
• 24:54
  Michael Smith: I don't think she would have ever put me in a situation where, it
• 24:57
  Michael Smith: would have been career ending.
• 24:59
  Michael Smith: I think she would have probably jumped in and then prevented that, but I
• 25:02
  Michael Smith: think she also knew that the best way to learn
• 25:06
  Michael Smith: is to fail.
• 25:07
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 25:08
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 25:08
  Michael Smith: But she had created an environment where we could fail,
• 25:13
  Michael Smith: safely than if we were, you know, just out there on our own or
• 25:16
  Michael Smith: if she had thrown us out to the wolves and stuff.
• 25:19
  Michael Smith: So yeah.
• 25:20
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 25:20
  Lisa Nichols: It's so it's so,
• 25:23
  Lisa Nichols: so critical to have those environments because, really, I've I've thought about
• 25:27
  Lisa Nichols: that a lot.
• 25:28
  Lisa Nichols: You know, you've got really, without innovation, even if
• 25:32
  Lisa Nichols: you're doing things and executing excellently, it you you stagnate.
• 25:36
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 25:37
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 25:38
  Lisa Nichols: But then the opposite can happen.
• 25:39
  Lisa Nichols: You got innovation without executing with excellence.
• 25:43
  Lisa Nichols: There's chaos.
• 25:44
  Lisa Nichols: Yep.
• 25:45
  Lisa Nichols: But you've got to continue as an organization to innovate, and
• 25:49
  Lisa Nichols: you cannot do that if you're not allowed to safely
• 25:54
  Lisa Nichols: try things and experiment.
• 25:55
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 25:56
  Michael Smith: Yep.
• 25:56
  Michael Smith: Yep.
• 25:57
  Lisa Nichols: Well, now you're a partner at Fordium.
• 26:00
  Lisa Nichols: So what drew you to Fordium?
• 26:02
  Lisa Nichols: And I'd love for you to tell I mean, I know about Fordium.
• 26:06
  Lisa Nichols: And in fact,
• 26:09
  Lisa Nichols: what I mean, I'm just trying to think.
• 26:12
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, Burke Autry.
• 26:13
  Michael Smith: Oh, yeah.
• 26:14
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 26:14
  Michael Smith: Burke Autry.
• 26:15
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 26:15
  Lisa Nichols: And we had an office in Dallas for six years.
• 26:18
  Lisa Nichols: I know Burke, but Okay.
• 26:19
  Lisa Nichols: Tell tell our listeners about Fortium if they're not familiar.
• 26:23
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 26:23
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 26:23
  Michael Smith: So Fortium is the largest technology leadership as a service firm
• 26:28
  Michael Smith: in the country.
• 26:28
  Michael Smith: So they their whole focus is providing
• 26:32
  Michael Smith: seasoned, experienced executives that have played the roles of
• 26:36
  Michael Smith: CIO, CTO, and CSO executives in various different companies
• 26:41
  Michael Smith: and providing those resources on both a fractional and interim basis.
• 26:45
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 26:45
  Michael Smith: So for some of the large clients within Fortium, we
• 26:49
  Michael Smith: may be brought in when a CIO, CTO, or CSO exits the company,
• 26:54
  Michael Smith: either by their choice or being asked to leave.
• 26:57
  Michael Smith: Right.
• 26:57
  Michael Smith: We would come in and fill that gap and play that role on a
• 27:00
  Michael Smith: full time basis while the company is then looking for whoever the permanent
• 27:05
  Michael Smith: person would be.
• 27:06
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 27:06
  Michael Smith: And and we'll help vet candidates out.
• 27:08
  Michael Smith: We're not a search firm.
• 27:09
  Michael Smith: We're not anything like that, but we'll work with a lot of different recruiting
• 27:12
  Michael Smith: firms.
• 27:12
  Michael Smith: But we'll also help with the interview process and and make sure that whoever
• 27:16
  Michael Smith: is being hired, fits within the culture of that company because we've been
• 27:20
  Michael Smith: You've been there.
• 27:21
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 27:22
  Michael Smith: Right.
• 27:22
  Michael Smith: And, and for more smaller or midsize companies, we'll provide that same
• 27:26
  Michael Smith: leadership on a fractional basis.
• 27:28
  Michael Smith: So it may be a company that now has suddenly grown and they've realized
• 27:31
  Michael Smith: they need a technology leader.
• 27:33
  Michael Smith: And so then, they'll bring in Fortium.
• 27:36
  Michael Smith: And then our fastest growing area is with private equity.
• 27:39
  Michael Smith: And so private equity firms will then bring us in to manage their portfolio
• 27:44
  Michael Smith: of businesses from a technology perspective, or they'll, use
• 27:48
  Michael Smith: our expertise in the due diligence from a technology perspective or even the
• 27:52
  Michael Smith: post, acquisition integration and strategy of how to
• 27:57
  Michael Smith: bring this particular company into their technology footprint, the
• 28:01
  Michael Smith: rest of their portfolio.
• 28:02
  Michael Smith: So, so, yeah, I I met forty m several years
• 28:06
  Michael Smith: ago, and we'd crossed paths.
• 28:08
  Michael Smith: And I had, spoke with them and and had an opportunity to come on
• 28:12
  Michael Smith: as a partner then, and it was in, probably about four years into
• 28:16
  Michael Smith: my role at American Academy of Family Physicians.
• 28:19
  Michael Smith: And, and I had really
• 28:22
  Michael Smith: worked with the the board and the leadership team at the AFP
• 28:27
  Michael Smith: to really buy into the vision of what I had recommended to them from
• 28:31
  Michael Smith: a technology strategy.
• 28:32
  Michael Smith: And they just didn't feel right that before we were done, I was gonna
• 28:35
  Michael Smith: jump ship.
• 28:36
  Michael Smith: With
• 28:36
  Lisa Nichols: a jump.
• 28:36
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 28:37
  Michael Smith: I I said, look.
• 28:38
  Michael Smith: It just doesn't sound right.
• 28:40
  Michael Smith: And so, so anyway, we parted ways.
• 28:43
  Michael Smith: And, and so toward the,
• 28:46
  Michael Smith: end of the AFP engagement,
• 28:50
  Michael Smith: we crossed paths again.
• 28:51
  Michael Smith: And, and it just happened to just be at a time where,
• 28:56
  Michael Smith: we somehow connected again both on LinkedIn, but also in just in a human
• 29:00
  Michael Smith: connection.
• 29:01
  Michael Smith: And and, we started having discussions again, and I thought, well, yeah, I think
• 29:05
  Michael Smith: the time is right.
• 29:05
  Michael Smith: And so I jumped on as a partner with them, and four d m
• 29:09
  Michael Smith: has now been in business for almost twelve years.
• 29:12
  Michael Smith: Like you say, they're headquartered in in Dallas or Plano, Texas is where they're
• 29:16
  Michael Smith: headquartered.
• 29:17
  Michael Smith: Burke Archery is the primary founder.
• 29:19
  Michael Smith: There's a couple of founders, but he was the primary one.
• 29:22
  Michael Smith: And many of those individuals came from a a previous company called Tatum
• 29:27
  Michael Smith: Consulting.
• 29:27
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 29:28
  Lisa Nichols: And
• 29:28
  Michael Smith: then and then they, they had left and then started Fortium.
• 29:32
  Michael Smith: And, and Fortium has continued to grow,
• 29:36
  Michael Smith: double digit growth, year over year and and take on a lot
• 29:40
  Michael Smith: of different, opportunities and clients.
• 29:42
  Michael Smith: And now, there's about a hundred and sixty
• 29:46
  Michael Smith: of me's, in the company across the United States.
• 29:50
  Michael Smith: And so I'm I'm in what's called the south central region, which would be,
• 29:54
  Michael Smith: the the center part of that region is Dallas, of course, but then it
• 29:57
  Michael Smith: goes up through, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri,
• 30:02
  Michael Smith: Oklahoma, that area there.
• 30:04
  Michael Smith: So so me being based in Kansas City, I'm the only partner for Fortium
• 30:08
  Michael Smith: in Kansas City.
• 30:09
  Lisa Nichols: In Kansas City?
• 30:10
  Michael Smith: So I'm, working with companies in Kansas City, have, talked to
• 30:14
  Michael Smith: a number of different companies in Saint Louis, Omaha, of where they might
• 30:18
  Michael Smith: need that fractional technology leadership.
• 30:21
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 30:21
  Lisa Nichols: And if you are a CIO out there or CTO out there that's in
• 30:25
  Lisa Nichols: in between or Yep.
• 30:27
  Lisa Nichols: Trying to figure out what's next for you, it may be it may be
• 30:30
  Lisa Nichols: something to look at.
• 30:31
  Lisa Nichols: And I remember at the time,
• 30:34
  Lisa Nichols: when I first met Burke, I mean, what happens sometimes
• 30:39
  Lisa Nichols: is an interim will go in because I remember Fossil
• 30:43
  Lisa Nichols: was using an interim, at the time, and then that person ends
• 30:47
  Lisa Nichols: up becoming the CIO, you know, the permanent CIO on some occasions.
• 30:51
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 30:51
  Lisa Nichols: So Yeah.
• 30:52
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 30:52
  Michael Smith: I it's not really their their model to do that, but, yeah, it has
• 30:55
  Michael Smith: happened.
• 30:56
  Lisa Nichols: But it's happened.
• 30:57
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 30:57
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 30:58
  Michael Smith: So yeah.
• 30:58
  Lisa Nichols: Oh my goodness, Michael.
• 30:59
  Lisa Nichols: I've got so many more questions for you, but we need to take a
• 31:02
  Lisa Nichols: quick break, and we'll be right back on the Something Extra podcast with Michael
• 31:06
  Lisa Nichols: Smith.
• 31:07
  AD: Hey there.
• 31:07
  AD: In a challenging business climate like this, savvy leaders look to technology to
• 31:11
  AD: find an edge.
• 31:12
  AD: This can mean the difference between staying ahead of the curve or playing catch
• 31:16
  AD: up.
• 31:16
  AD: It's time to collaborate with the highly skilled experts at Technology Partners.
• 31:20
  AD: Our team of technologists draws upon decades of experience for your project, with
• 31:24
  AD: each bringing a passion for solving problems and a track record of success, how
• 31:28
  AD: can we help you overcome your biggest technology challenges?
• 31:31
  AD: Visit technology partners dot net to book a free consultation with one of our
• 31:35
  AD: leaders.
• 31:36
  Lisa Nichols: Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with Michael Smith.
• 31:40
  Lisa Nichols: We've been having a lot of fun talking about technology leadership.
• 31:45
  Lisa Nichols: I wanna ask you, Michael, you have often said that your approach to IT
• 31:49
  Lisa Nichols: is through a business first lens, and I love that.
• 31:53
  Lisa Nichols: It's business first.
• 31:54
  Lisa Nichols: It's not technology for technology's sake.
• 31:56
  Lisa Nichols: Can you speak into that a little bit more?
• 31:58
  Lisa Nichols: What does that look like in practice?
• 32:01
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 32:01
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 32:02
  Michael Smith: I I think a lot of it, at least personally for me, comes from
• 32:05
  Michael Smith: the fact that I didn't start my career in IT.
• 32:07
  Michael Smith: So I started more on the on the business side or outside even
• 32:11
  Michael Smith: though IT is part of the business.
• 32:13
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 32:13
  Michael Smith: It's just kind of a a different perspective on there.
• 32:17
  Michael Smith: And so, when I look at technology, I've never been a
• 32:21
  Michael Smith: gamer.
• 32:21
  Michael Smith: I've never been a, technology widget type person.
• 32:26
  Michael Smith: I've always been drawn to the fact of what technology can do for
• 32:30
  Michael Smith: business operations.
• 32:31
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 32:31
  Michael Smith: So how can it really create a competitive advantage?
• 32:34
  Michael Smith: How can it really drive innovation, productivity, profitability?
• 32:39
  Michael Smith: And so I think that has served me well, growing up in the technology
• 32:43
  Michael Smith: ranks where I'm able to
• 32:46
  Michael Smith: communicate not only with the business leaders, but also with other technology
• 32:50
  Michael Smith: leaders.
• 32:51
  Michael Smith: And and I think the best compliment that I ever received in my career
• 32:55
  Michael Smith: was prior to becoming the general manager at Quillogy.
• 32:59
  Michael Smith: The previous general manager had done a performance review of
• 33:03
  Michael Smith: me, one of the times that, we kind of went through that
• 33:07
  Michael Smith: process, and I was a managing consultant at the time.
• 33:11
  Michael Smith: And he had put into my performance review, he said, Michael has a unique
• 33:15
  Michael Smith: ability to effectively communicate with the boardroom
• 33:19
  Michael Smith: at the same time that he's communicating with the data center.
• 33:23
  Michael Smith: That's awesome.
• 33:23
  Michael Smith: And so where he was really kinda coming across was that he can he
• 33:27
  Michael Smith: can comfortably communicate in the language of executives, right,
• 33:31
  Michael Smith: of of of communicating their language of business operations, but then taking
• 33:35
  Michael Smith: that information and then converting that over to technologists for
• 33:39
  Michael Smith: them to understand what do they actually need to build Mhmm.
• 33:42
  Michael Smith: Related to whatever the organization is trying to do.
• 33:45
  Michael Smith: And and it's and it served me well in my career, and and I've
• 33:48
  Michael Smith: had opportunities where, I've I've like I said, I've ran,
• 33:53
  Michael Smith: not only digital transformations, but operational transformations as well.
• 33:58
  Michael Smith: And so, so no.
• 34:00
  Michael Smith: I I think the best thing that could have ever happened to me, at
• 34:02
  Michael Smith: least in the IT industry, is that I didn't start in IT.
• 34:05
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 34:05
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 34:05
  Michael Smith: It just gave me a different, perspective of how business operations run.
• 34:10
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 34:11
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 34:12
  Lisa Nichols: And I would say that that is definitely a differentiator,
• 34:16
  Lisa Nichols: for people.
• 34:17
  Lisa Nichols: You know, it's being able to translate and talk to you know,
• 34:21
  Lisa Nichols: really understand in the business, being able to communicate.
• 34:25
  Lisa Nichols: That's one of the things we teach in our technology leadership experience
• 34:29
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 34:30
  Lisa Nichols: Where we're taking high potentials to that next level is really communicating up and
• 34:33
  Lisa Nichols: down, and you gotta be able to do that.
• 34:36
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 34:37
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 34:37
  Lisa Nichols: But well, did you use data,
• 34:41
  Lisa Nichols: as a strategic tell me about data, you know, in any of your
• 34:45
  Lisa Nichols: strategic transformations that you've done.
• 34:47
  Lisa Nichols: How important is that, Michael?
• 34:50
  Michael Smith: Oh, it's, extremely important.
• 34:52
  Michael Smith: From from a technical perspective, I started my career more on the engineering side.
• 34:57
  Michael Smith: And, and, I mentioned earlier in our conversation
• 35:01
  Michael Smith: that one of my first jobs was with Sprint PCS.
• 35:04
  Michael Smith: And, and if you remember much about that company,
• 35:08
  Michael Smith: the prime contractor that was running the IT operations for
• 35:12
  Michael Smith: Sprint PCS was a company called EDS Yes.
• 35:15
  Michael Smith: That was owned by Ross Perot.
• 35:17
  Michael Smith: Yes.
• 35:17
  Michael Smith: And this was actually when Ross Perot was still running, that company.
• 35:22
  Michael Smith: And, and so with EDS, they were kinda building out the nationwide
• 35:27
  Michael Smith: infrastructure network for Sprint PCS.
• 35:29
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 35:30
  Michael Smith: And so coming in as a subcontractor,
• 35:33
  Michael Smith: so EDS had hired the contracting firm that I was working with, and I
• 35:37
  Michael Smith: was a subcontractor at Sprint PCS.
• 35:41
  Michael Smith: You know, I was at the right place at the right time.
• 35:43
  Michael Smith: And and I think it was it was a god thing for me, but
• 35:45
  Michael Smith: it was at the right place at the right time that I had an
• 35:48
  Michael Smith: opportunity to really work with some really brilliant
• 35:52
  Michael Smith: engineers, and, at at just kinda the ground level.
• 35:56
  Michael Smith: And so, so that's kind of where I started my career, but I I
• 36:00
  Michael Smith: slowly moved from engineering into data analytics.
• 36:04
  Michael Smith: And so from a technical perspective, I became a data warehouse developer, a
• 36:08
  Michael Smith: data warehouse,
• 36:10
  Michael Smith: created data warehouses, a database administrator, things like that.
• 36:13
  Michael Smith: And so I really kind of understood the power of what data can do
• 36:17
  Michael Smith: for organizations.
• 36:19
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 36:19
  Michael Smith: Because when you think about,
• 36:22
  Michael Smith: how a lot of companies interact with data, there's still a tremendous
• 36:26
  Michael Smith: number of companies that use Excel.
• 36:29
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 36:29
  Michael Smith: And Excel is a very powerful tool, but it's also
• 36:33
  Michael Smith: a dangerous tool because you can easily manipulate data.
• 36:37
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 36:38
  Michael Smith: You can easily create formulas that are going to, to
• 36:42
  Michael Smith: modify what the end result's going to look like.
• 36:45
  Michael Smith: And so sometimes when people are trying to sell a business case, they're manipulating
• 36:49
  Michael Smith: the data to really tell a story that may not necessarily be true in
• 36:53
  Michael Smith: the world.
• 36:53
  Lisa Nichols: The truth.
• 36:54
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 36:55
  Michael Smith: And so I was always a big proponent of creating data warehouses
• 36:59
  Michael Smith: where now you're creating visualization tools that you're not able
• 37:03
  Michael Smith: to manipulate that data.
• 37:05
  Michael Smith: So the information you're pulling from that data warehouse and that visualization
• 37:09
  Michael Smith: tool is what's actually happening in the organization.
• 37:11
  Michael Smith: And so I love to use the saying that there is no concept of
• 37:15
  Michael Smith: bad news.
• 37:16
  Michael Smith: It's just news.
• 37:17
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 37:18
  Michael Smith: Because even bad news could be turned into good news if an organization
• 37:22
  Michael Smith: knows that something bad is happening early on
• 37:26
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 37:26
  Michael Smith: They can adjust and change that in their organization and actually turn it
• 37:30
  Michael Smith: into a positive.
• 37:31
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 37:32
  Michael Smith: And so, data analytics plays a critical role in
• 37:36
  Michael Smith: any type of strategic decision making.
• 37:39
  Michael Smith: Because if you have not manipulated that data, the data is
• 37:43
  Michael Smith: telling you the factual truth, whether you like it or not like it.
• 37:47
  Lisa Nichols: The picture of what's really happening.
• 37:49
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 37:50
  Michael Smith: And and I think most executives, even if the story is not a positive
• 37:54
  Michael Smith: story, they'd rather know that sooner than later to make
• 37:58
  Michael Smith: adjustments Absolutely.
• 37:59
  Michael Smith: Can get it to a position to where they it is telling a good
• 38:03
  Michael Smith: story.
• 38:03
  Michael Smith: And if it is a good story, then how can they continue to,
• 38:07
  Michael Smith: cultivate that to continue to be successful as a company?
• 38:11
  Michael Smith: So Right.
• 38:11
  Michael Smith: Data is key.
• 38:12
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 38:13
  Lisa Nichols: We always say numbers don't lie.
• 38:15
  Michael Smith: Exactly.
• 38:16
  Lisa Nichols: The data does not lie.
• 38:17
  Lisa Nichols: Yep.
• 38:18
  Lisa Nichols: It's good.
• 38:19
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you, this because, you know, I mean, I'm sure,
• 38:25
  Lisa Nichols: I'm sure you have seen this a lot.
• 38:28
  Lisa Nichols: Where what do you some of those common barriers that you see,
• 38:33
  Lisa Nichols: Michael, of an organization when they're faced from moving from legacy
• 38:37
  Lisa Nichols: systems to cloud based ecosystems?
• 38:40
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, you know, there are some organizations out there that still have legacy
• 38:44
  Lisa Nichols: systems.
• 38:45
  Michael Smith: Oh, yeah.
• 38:45
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 38:47
  Michael Smith: I I I mean, the biggest challenge is the fear of the unknown.
• 38:50
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 38:51
  Michael Smith: So they know what they know.
• 38:52
  Michael Smith: Even and and many times, they know that what they're using is not
• 38:56
  Michael Smith: the right thing, but it's comfortable.
• 38:59
  Michael Smith: They know it's working.
• 39:01
  Michael Smith: You know, they're it they're just afraid of if we change
• 39:05
  Michael Smith: this, what if it starts to stop you know, starts breaking all the time?
• 39:08
  Michael Smith: What if things are not working?
• 39:09
  Michael Smith: What if the data is not correct and all that?
• 39:12
  Michael Smith: And really kind of educating organizations that, you know, the
• 39:16
  Michael Smith: the supportability of legacy systems, the technology that's there,
• 39:20
  Michael Smith: the individuals that are supporting that technology are not always going to be there.
• 39:25
  Michael Smith: And the next generation is not really focusing on that legacy technology.
• 39:28
  Michael Smith: And so you're creating an albatross around your neck that that could
• 39:33
  Michael Smith: potentially bring your company to room Right.
• 39:36
  Michael Smith: If you, do not, you know, understand how to innovate
• 39:40
  Michael Smith: with new technologies.
• 39:42
  Michael Smith: And so, so, yeah, I've I've had to go through a lot of different
• 39:46
  Michael Smith: companies and educate organizations on the fact that, yes,
• 39:50
  Michael Smith: some of these legacy systems are tried and true and very stable and
• 39:54
  Michael Smith: very supportive, but you're just not gonna be able to innovate and
• 39:59
  Michael Smith: grow and expand,
• 40:01
  Michael Smith: on a certain point.
• 40:02
  Michael Smith: And so educating them that, moving to the cloud is scary.
• 40:06
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 40:07
  Michael Smith: But, it's also, an opportunity for you to
• 40:11
  Michael Smith: expand your horizons of what you as an organization are doing
• 40:15
  Michael Smith: and and the capabilities of how you can integrate with other systems.
• 40:20
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 40:20
  Michael Smith: I mean, you you use the example of Salesforce as one of the largest
• 40:24
  Michael Smith: SaaS providers.
• 40:25
  Michael Smith: They integrate with I think now it's up to two hundred and forty thousand
• 40:29
  Michael Smith: different applications is in the Salesforce marketplace.
• 40:33
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 40:34
  Michael Smith: So, I mean, it's it's almost like an unlimited opportunity
• 40:38
  Michael Smith: Right.
• 40:39
  Michael Smith: Expand how you operate your organization by
• 40:43
  Michael Smith: using, some of these cloud based technologies that you would never be able
• 40:47
  Michael Smith: to do that in a legacy, on prem.
• 40:50
  Lisa Nichols: Environment.
• 40:51
  Lisa Nichols: Right on prem.
• 40:52
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 40:52
  Lisa Nichols: For sure.
• 40:53
  Lisa Nichols: For sure.
• 40:53
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 40:53
  Lisa Nichols: And it's just so important.
• 40:55
  Lisa Nichols: And to your point, these legacy systems, the the young
• 40:59
  Lisa Nichols: kids that are coming up through, you know, are not learning those and, you
• 41:03
  Lisa Nichols: know, that, oh my goodness.
• 41:05
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Lisa Nichols: We've had some of those.
• 41:06
  Lisa Nichols: We've had some of them where we had to go find a Fortran person,
• 41:11
  Lisa Nichols: you know, for, I may and it's just it's it's difficult.
• 41:15
  Lisa Nichols: It's difficult.
• 41:17
  Lisa Nichols: You know,
• 41:18
  Lisa Nichols: Let's talk about people.
• 41:20
  Lisa Nichols: Let's talk about people, Michael.
• 41:22
  Lisa Nichols: You know, many people have described you as a people first
• 41:27
  Lisa Nichols: leader, and, you know, where does that mindset
• 41:31
  Lisa Nichols: come from?
• 41:34
  Michael Smith: Again, it goes back early into my career.
• 41:37
  Michael Smith: So, when I worked for Sprint PCS as that subcontractor, again, that
• 41:41
  Michael Smith: my first job in IT,
• 41:44
  Michael Smith: I had
• 41:47
  Michael Smith: I I was always kind of a risk taker, type of individual, and I
• 41:50
  Michael Smith: would always kinda challenge myself.
• 41:52
  Michael Smith: And and I can go all the way back to my junior year in
• 41:56
  Michael Smith: high school where I started to kind of establish an
• 42:00
  Michael Smith: annual goal of what I want to accomplish within the next
• 42:04
  Michael Smith: year.
• 42:05
  Michael Smith: And and my and I still do it to this day.
• 42:07
  Michael Smith: So my goal date is July twenty third every year.
• 42:11
  Michael Smith: So I'll set a new goal and the goal and the whole purpose of
• 42:14
  Michael Smith: that goal is to accomplish that before July twenty second of the next year.
• 42:18
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 42:19
  Michael Smith: And so,
• 42:21
  Michael Smith: doing a dare to myself when I was a subcontractor with Sprint PCS,
• 42:26
  Michael Smith: I reached out to the CIO for Sprint PCS.
• 42:30
  Michael Smith: And, I sent them an email and saying, you know, told them my name
• 42:33
  Michael Smith: and this is what my role was.
• 42:35
  Michael Smith: But I really was wanting to sit down and talk with them about if
• 42:39
  Michael Smith: I wanted to, at some point in my career, become a CIO like
• 42:43
  Michael Smith: themselves Yeah.
• 42:44
  Michael Smith: This Gong.
• 42:45
  Michael Smith: To do.
• 42:45
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 42:46
  Michael Smith: What would I need to do Right.
• 42:47
  Michael Smith: To get to that point in my career.
• 42:49
  Michael Smith: And so I sent the email never expecting to get a response.
• 42:53
  Michael Smith: Well, I did get a response, from the CIO, and, he
• 42:57
  Michael Smith: appreciated me reaching out to him.
• 42:59
  Michael Smith: And and so he then had his assistant set up some time for us
• 43:03
  Michael Smith: to meet.
• 43:04
  Michael Smith: Now, originally, our meeting invite was for thirty minutes.
• 43:07
  Michael Smith: And I was gonna go to his office, and we were gonna sit down.
• 43:10
  Michael Smith: And and I had a, you know, pad of paper of all these questions.
• 43:13
  Lisa Nichols: You had all your questions lined up?
• 43:15
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 43:15
  Michael Smith: He ended up meeting with me for two hours.
• 43:19
  Michael Smith: That was, I mean, that was life transforming
• 43:24
  Michael Smith: because, not only was I not an employee of Sprint
• 43:28
  Michael Smith: PCS, I wasn't even a contractor.
• 43:31
  Michael Smith: I was a subcontractor.
• 43:32
  Michael Smith: So I was, you know, kind of in the eyes of Sprint PCS.
• 43:35
  Michael Smith: I was less than dirt.
• 43:36
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 43:37
  Michael Smith: I just there was no reason for for this person to invest this time
• 43:41
  Michael Smith: with you.
• 43:42
  Michael Smith: And so, and and I of course, he shared all the different things of
• 43:45
  Michael Smith: what he would recommend I would do in my career if I wanted to
• 43:48
  Michael Smith: ultimately eventually become a CIO.
• 43:50
  Michael Smith: And he recommended, you know, you're gonna need to go back to school.
• 43:53
  Michael Smith: He highly recommended me to get in my MBA.
• 43:56
  Michael Smith: And so I accomplished my MBA back in two thousand eight and,
• 44:00
  Michael Smith: and and a lot of other things that he he recommended.
• 44:04
  Michael Smith: Well, I walked out of that his office thinking if I ever had an
• 44:07
  Michael Smith: opportunity to be a leader, that's the type
• 44:10
  Lisa Nichols: of leader that you wanna be.
• 44:11
  Lisa Nichols: Oh.
• 44:12
  Michael Smith: I wanna be a servant leader.
• 44:13
  Michael Smith: I want to be able to invest in people and give people an opportunity
• 44:19
  Michael Smith: to progress in their career even if those opportunities
• 44:23
  Michael Smith: allow those individuals to exceed what I've accomplished in my
• 44:27
  Michael Smith: career.
• 44:27
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 44:28
  Michael Smith: Because that's what that person did for me.
• 44:31
  Lisa Nichols: And,
• 44:32
  Michael Smith: and so
• 44:32
  Lisa Nichols: That's remarkable.
• 44:33
  Lisa Nichols: Did you ever go back and tell him what an impression that that
• 44:37
  Lisa Nichols: made on you?
• 44:38
  Michael Smith: I I tried to.
• 44:39
  Lisa Nichols: That, Michael?
• 44:40
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 44:40
  Michael Smith: I tried to.
• 44:41
  Michael Smith: And and, and and I was able to track him down, and I sent
• 44:45
  Michael Smith: him a message on LinkedIn, but I've also heard that he's
• 44:49
  Michael Smith: he's retired.
• 44:50
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 44:50
  Lisa Nichols: And,
• 44:51
  Michael Smith: he's no longer in so I don't know if he ever received the message
• 44:54
  Michael Smith: or anything.
• 44:54
  Michael Smith: But, yeah, it was, yeah, it definitely was something that,
• 44:59
  Michael Smith: I mean, it it was a pivotal point in my early career
• 45:04
  Michael Smith: of really kind of putting me on the path and a trajectory of of
• 45:07
  Michael Smith: what type of leader I wanna be in the future.
• 45:10
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:11
  Lisa Nichols: That I that's such a good point because I do think that we need
• 45:15
  Lisa Nichols: to figure that out.
• 45:16
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 45:16
  Lisa Nichols: I mean and the people right in front of us, a lot of times,
• 45:19
  Lisa Nichols: lets us know.
• 45:20
  Lisa Nichols: You know, that's what I talk about in my book.
• 45:22
  Lisa Nichols: I had a really amazing leader.
• 45:25
  Lisa Nichols: He was not my boss, but he was my boss's boss,
• 45:28
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 45:28
  Lisa Nichols: Don Imholz when I was at McDonnell Douglas.
• 45:31
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:31
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:31
  Lisa Nichols: And just the way he treated people and
• 45:35
  Lisa Nichols: the way that he invested, just like this leader did with you.
• 45:41
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:41
  Lisa Nichols: I was like, that's that's the kind of leader I wanna be too.
• 45:45
  Lisa Nichols: I'm gonna I've got here a couple,
• 45:49
  Lisa Nichols: you know, Burke Autry.
• 45:51
  Lisa Nichols: I I read a read a interview that you had done with
• 45:55
  Lisa Nichols: Burke.
• 45:56
  Lisa Nichols: It said you know, talking about a forward, thinking
• 46:00
  Lisa Nichols: perspective on leveraging innovation, and you're talking about
• 46:05
  Lisa Nichols: that you have been recognized because you were in the CIO one hundred,
• 46:09
  Lisa Nichols: for strong leadership and mentoring.
• 46:12
  Lisa Nichols: And, you know, what what advice would you
• 46:16
  Lisa Nichols: give to a CIO about mentoring?
• 46:20
  Lisa Nichols: And then what would you I love what you talked about your yellow pad
• 46:24
  Lisa Nichols: of paper.
• 46:25
  Lisa Nichols: You went in with your questions.
• 46:27
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 46:28
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 46:28
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, in the technology leadership experience, as you know, that is a
• 46:32
  Lisa Nichols: huge pillar in our that's one of the four pillars is the mentee mentor.
• 46:37
  Lisa Nichols: What advice would you give to a mentee and how to be the best
• 46:41
  Lisa Nichols: mentee?
• 46:42
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 46:43
  Michael Smith: Well, first on the mentor side, just do it.
• 46:47
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 46:47
  Michael Smith: As a leader, there's nothing more rewarding
• 46:51
  Michael Smith: than being able to mentor someone.
• 46:54
  Michael Smith: I always get more out of mentoring an individual
• 46:58
  Michael Smith: than maybe that mentee receives from me.
• 47:02
  Michael Smith: And so I think just do it.
• 47:04
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 47:05
  Michael Smith: As a leader, we're called to be able to lead the
• 47:09
  Michael Smith: next generation of leaders.
• 47:10
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 47:11
  Michael Smith: We want leaders to be good leaders in the future,
• 47:16
  Michael Smith: then they need to be mentored by good leaders.
• 47:19
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 47:19
  Michael Smith: And, and so, so that's that's the first recommendation on the mentor
• 47:24
  Michael Smith: side is if you're not doing that currently, find an opportunity to
• 47:28
  Michael Smith: do that.
• 47:28
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 47:29
  Michael Smith: Mhmm.
• 47:29
  Michael Smith: For the mentee side,
• 47:32
  Michael Smith: I would I just like what I did when I met with that individual,
• 47:36
  Michael Smith: be a sponge.
• 47:38
  Michael Smith: Listen to what, those leaders that have been
• 47:42
  Michael Smith: through those situations in the past.
• 47:44
  Michael Smith: Listen to what they're saying.
• 47:46
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 47:46
  Michael Smith: You may not necessarily agree with everything that they're saying, but take it
• 47:50
  Michael Smith: in.
• 47:51
  Michael Smith: Listen to it.
• 47:52
  Michael Smith: Again, be that sponge to where you're open to
• 47:56
  Michael Smith: see things from a different perspective.
• 47:58
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 47:58
  Michael Smith: Because every generation comes into the workforce from a different perspective.
• 48:02
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 48:02
  Michael Smith: And and they look at individuals that are close to the time of retiring
• 48:07
  Michael Smith: thinking that, you know, I don't understand why they're doing the things that they're
• 48:10
  Michael Smith: doing because I'd never do it that way.
• 48:12
  Michael Smith: Well, that's possible, but times constantly change.
• 48:16
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 48:16
  Michael Smith: Innovation brings new things that, you just have to always be
• 48:20
  Michael Smith: looking at things from a different perspective.
• 48:22
  Michael Smith: And if you're the guarantee, come in with an open mind with a different
• 48:26
  Michael Smith: perspective of looking at the world.
• 48:29
  Michael Smith: And and then, again, take that wisdom and advice that that leader
• 48:33
  Michael Smith: is willing to invest their time into you.
• 48:36
  Michael Smith: Take advantage of that.
• 48:37
  Michael Smith: And Yeah.
• 48:38
  Michael Smith: And it it will reap you significant amount of benefits.
• 48:42
  Michael Smith: And Yeah.
• 48:43
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 48:43
  Michael Smith: So yeah.
• 48:44
  Lisa Nichols: Could not could not agree more.
• 48:46
  Lisa Nichols: Well and then I think about you.
• 48:49
  Lisa Nichols: You actually took some advice and executed on it.
• 48:52
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 48:53
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm sure for a mentor, that's really fulfilling
• 48:57
  Lisa Nichols: because if you give this advice and they don't ever change or do,
• 49:02
  Lisa Nichols: do many things the the things that you've suggested, that may that
• 49:06
  Lisa Nichols: may, say something a little bit different, you know, about that person.
• 49:10
  Lisa Nichols: But, well, oh my goodness.
• 49:12
  Lisa Nichols: You've got so many so many other things here to talk
• 49:16
  Lisa Nichols: about, but, you know,
• 49:20
  Lisa Nichols: let me just ask you this, Michael, because this is the question I ask
• 49:23
  Lisa Nichols: every person that's on the podcast.
• 49:25
  Lisa Nichols: What do you believe is this something extra that every leader needs?
• 49:34
  Michael Smith: I think empathy.
• 49:37
  Michael Smith: I think it's so so one of the things that,
• 49:41
  Michael Smith: again, because that individual was willing to invest the time they invested
• 49:45
  Michael Smith: in me when I was early in my career, and and again, just wanting
• 49:49
  Michael Smith: to be that servant leader.
• 49:51
  Michael Smith: When you're managing people, you're seeing the good, the
• 49:55
  Michael Smith: bad, and the ugly of individuals, but you're not necessarily
• 49:59
  Michael Smith: always understanding
• 50:01
  Michael Smith: why that side of that person is coming out of them during that
• 50:05
  Michael Smith: particular time.
• 50:06
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 50:06
  Michael Smith: It could be a very stressful time, but there could also be a lot
• 50:09
  Michael Smith: of things that's happening to them personally.
• 50:12
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 50:12
  Michael Smith: And and sometimes leaders get caught up in the,
• 50:17
  Michael Smith: the motions of an employee is just another number.
• 50:21
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 50:21
  Michael Smith: It's just another cog in the wheel.
• 50:23
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 50:23
  Michael Smith: But they're not necessarily looking them as an actual person.
• 50:27
  Lisa Nichols: Human?
• 50:28
  Michael Smith: Yes.
• 50:28
  Michael Smith: And and having empathy with them.
• 50:31
  Michael Smith: I think one of the most,
• 50:34
  Michael Smith: humbling,
• 50:36
  Michael Smith: compliments that I ever received from an individual.
• 50:39
  Michael Smith: And I was, I was just in a one on one meeting with them.
• 50:42
  Michael Smith: It was actually a skip level meeting.
• 50:44
  Michael Smith: So it was, they didn't report to me.
• 50:47
  Michael Smith: They reported to someone else and that person they reported to reported to me.
• 50:51
  Michael Smith: And, and they were sharing some things that were going on, and, and I
• 50:55
  Michael Smith: was very attentive listening to everything.
• 50:57
  Michael Smith: And toward the end of the conversation,
• 51:00
  Michael Smith: they said this comment that has just stuck with me is they said, you
• 51:04
  Michael Smith: know, Michael, you really have kind eyes.
• 51:09
  Michael Smith: And I thought that is, you know, I'd never heard that before.
• 51:13
  Michael Smith: Right?
• 51:13
  Michael Smith: You know, because you could hear someone say, well, you know, you just your
• 51:16
  Michael Smith: your your voice is very calming, you know, your actions are very,
• 51:22
  Michael Smith: I feel safe, you know, with your actions.
• 51:23
  Michael Smith: But for someone to say you have kind eyes, that means that
• 51:27
  Michael Smith: they feel like you were listening and that they were.
• 51:32
  Michael Smith: And, and I think a leader that can demonstrate empathy and
• 51:36
  Michael Smith: be able to really relate to the individuals that
• 51:40
  Michael Smith: they're leading, those are the individuals that will
• 51:44
  Michael Smith: follow that leader at all cost.
• 51:47
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 51:48
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 51:48
  Michael Smith: And so, yeah, I think that's one of the most important traits that a
• 51:52
  Michael Smith: leader needs is empathy.
• 51:54
  Lisa Nichols: Wow.
• 51:55
  Lisa Nichols: You have kind eyes.
• 51:57
  Lisa Nichols: Wow.
• 51:57
  Lisa Nichols: I know.
• 51:57
  Michael Smith: That is really that was I mean, I was touching.
• 52:00
  Lisa Nichols: You saw they but what they meant is that you see them.
• 52:04
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 52:04
  Michael Smith: Yeah.
• 52:05
  Lisa Nichols: You see them.
• 52:06
  Lisa Nichols: So that's really that's beautiful.
• 52:08
  Lisa Nichols: Well, Michael, this has been so much fun.
• 52:10
  Lisa Nichols: I think we could go on and on and on, but we're out of
• 52:12
  Lisa Nichols: time here.
• 52:13
  Lisa Nichols: Thank you so much for being on the show, and I know that your
• 52:17
  Lisa Nichols: comments, I know that your experience is gonna really help our listeners.
• 52:21
  Michael Smith: Well Thank you for sharing.
• 52:22
  Michael Smith: Inviting me on.
• 52:23
  Michael Smith: I appreciate it.
• 52:24
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 52:26
  Announcer: Thank you for listening to today's show.
• 52:28
  Announcer: Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production.
• 52:31
  Announcer: Copyright Technology Partners Inc, two thousand and nineteen.
• 52:35
  Announcer: For show notes or to reach Lisa, visit tpi dot co
• 52:39
  Announcer: slash podcast.
• 52:40
  Announcer: Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever
• 52:45
  Announcer: you listen.