Latest / TechtalkRadio / Episode 380 - The Shiny New Thing!

Transcript

Episode 380 - The Shiny New Thing! · TechtalkRadio

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The following program is produced by the tech Talk Radio Network. Hey guys,
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this is Al Petrali from the Transient Orchestra. Normally I'm not a nerd,
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but I am with my brother Andy on tech Talk Radio. God bless me,
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dame. Welcome to another episode of tech Talk Radio. I'm Andy Taylor,
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I'm Sean d Weird, I'm Matt Jones, and I'm justin Lemme.
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I'm just glad we were all able to get together. Yeah, we tried,
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like the holidays, right, we tried last week and you know,
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it was before Thanksgiving and people were sick. Oh my god, people were
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traveling, people were cooking. So he said, all right, well we'll
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just we'll hold off for you know, another week and talk about all this
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fun stuff that's going on. So we get questions once in a while to
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the show. We got one from Lou and he says, hey, my
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fourteen year old is looking at a gaming computer and I wanted to get your
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opinion on it. It's called Capital n z x T Player one and we
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put link in there. So of course I never click on a link in
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a text. I went online just to yeah, it just went online just
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to do a search. Of the company, and then I found the company,
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found they had a website, went and looked at their their model,
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and the kid's fourteen. Now you got to remember this. And the thing
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is for the price of what they were looking at, there's a player one.
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There's like a secondary version. I think you're looking at that shown right
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now. I've got to pulled up so whatever you right, So you've got
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the one. That's what six ninety nine for. So the player one that
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you mentioned is six ninety nine, right, And here's the specs real quick,
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Intel Core I five, twelfth Gen thirty fifty RTX sixteen gig, DDR
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four five hundred gig and VMMEM two and six hundred and fifty watt PSU kind
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of like, I mean, other than the thirty fifty that's really kind of
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bear, isn't it. I mean, that's not that great specs though for
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six ninety nine. I mean, okay, depends on what you wants to
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play. Right, did he mention it's a boy or him? Sorry?
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Sorry? Did what? What is he? What does he want to play?
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If you want to play Minecraft, I mean, yeah, sure,
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that's fine. But if he wants to play Call of Duty or whatever,
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No, that's not going to cut it. Well, it'll cut the mustard,
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but he's not going to be playing anything on ultra I mean but ultra
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settings. Yeah, for like for a fourteen year old that that ain't bad.
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But for that amount, I'd be like, well, timmy, you
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get to build your first computer. Here's your budget, go by the part.
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That's exactly what I would suggest. Yeah, that's what And again PC
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part picker is one of those Yeah, great. And honestly, this is
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this is a skill that people should be teaching their kids. And I can't
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wait for the day that I can build, you know, with Eric build
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his computer. I mean, honestly, it's it's a it's a it's a
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lifelong skill to be able to learn how to build a computer. And you
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can get so much more bang for your buck by building your own computer by
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using parts, you know, like going to pcparkpicker dot com, finding the
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motherboard, finding the CPU, finding the GPU, finding the power supply,
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you know, and and and the case and the RAM and just and put
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it all together yourself. Do you think though, it's important that parents talk
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to the kids about like when they talk about gaming, like what type of
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games what how do they how do they want to play? Because let's face
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it, you've got consoles out there that could actually do pretty good, and
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in some cases, if they're going to be playing console games, wouldn't that
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be better than dropping all this money onto a computer? I mean six p
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ninety nine versus four ninety nine for an Xbox. You know, yeah,
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I would, I would, I would agree. I mean, Xbox dude.
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I could go on for hours about this, but honestly I am.
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I'm right back in the Xbox camp. I mean, when I first got
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my Xbox Series X with game Pass, I was kind of like, eh,
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whatever, I don't even play my PlayStation anymore. I would actually rather
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trade my PlayStation five for another Xbox if I could right now, because Xbox
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game Pass with the PC game Pass that comes with it is just none your
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best best bang for your buck, and you can play so many games on
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the Xbox right now with game Pass that I don't even play PC games anymore.
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Like, literally the games that I play are Xbox game Pass. Like
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It's just it's ridiculous. It's they got so much stuff going on. They
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are killing it. This This generation. PlayStation's always won the war when it
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comes to generations, not anymore. Xbox has won this generation. Okay,
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now, now here we go. Got off his soapbox here swinging for Sony.
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All right, Oh you're gonna swing out with Spider Many. Okay,
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so I'm gonna come out swinging for Sony because I first off, I will
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completely agree with Justin that the Xbox Game Pass is phenomenal. I am not
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gonna say. I'm not gonna say otherwise. The fact that you can go
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between console and PC for those games is a phenomenal value and it really is
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a great service saying that they one. However, I'm gonna disagree, and
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here's why, because I can also play my PlayStation anywhere on a phone.
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But on top of that, not only through PS plus, uh do you
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have access to you know, the modern games, but you have access to
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classics all the way back to the PS one. Same with Xbox. Okay,
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I didn't interrupt you, so you can go on. Sorry. Wow,
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he's the first person to ever telling that. Recovering my time, recovering
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my time. I worked for the House of Representatives for like a year.
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I got real good at listening to recovering my time, recovering my time,
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which is the plight way of being like, shut up, I'm still talking.
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So yes, they PlayStation has a gigantic catalog. You get three free
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games every month. I know that Xbox has all of this as well.
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However, PlayStation just recently released a brand new handheld that Xbox does not have
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anything like. It has a screen equivalent to most tablets, with an integrated
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PS five dual sentence controller and all the full functionality that comes therein And Andy,
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did I just see you pick one up? No? Actually, I
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showed this on television. This is Yeah, the acis rog Asis rog ally
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extreme. This is the extreme model, so it's a little more be fear.
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This is amazing. And again I'm not an intense gamer. I used
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to be, but obviously with work and everything, I might I don't know
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if I would be able to get this would drag me back into the games.
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I think it would. A seven inch screen, Xbox, You've got,
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I can guarantee you it will. I bought my wife a Steam Deck.
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I didn't see her for a while again, like this switch immediately started
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gathering dust right when that came in, and she was like, oh,
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I can play game like I can play like the PC games on this that's
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kind of cool. And then I shared my porter's nightmare of a Steam library
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with her, and all of a sudden, she's just burning through games faster
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than I am. And the one that finally broke, like finally broke her
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and she was like, I need a PC. It was Balder's Gate three.
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Oh oh yes, she's playing that on the Steam deck and she's like
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trying to roll the dice, like tapping on the screen and she's like it's
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not working. And for those who don't know, Balderskate three is basically D
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and D the video game, so rolling dice is kind of a large part
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of that. I would just like to interject real quick because I think we're
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getting off on a tangent here. I want to circle back to your PlayStation
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handheld. Okay, yes, let me let me finish on that real quick.
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So because I want to interject after that. So handheld, built in
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screen, built in battery, built in PS five old dual sense, it's
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dual sense now right, yeah? Yeah, du sense yeah, because it
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was like Duel Shock six axes. Yah. Yeah, okay, enough with
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the duels, guys, pick something new, but all of that built in
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together easy portable interface, can use over Wi Fi and your house can be
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used remotely anywhere else. Yes, justin you're gonna tell me that you can
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pair a Xbox controller to a tablet. No, the only way you can
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use the PlayStation is if you have Wi Fi, so you cannot use it
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anywhere. It only works if it has Wi Fi. It is not standalone.
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You cannot install games to it. I was. I wasn't saying it
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a stand alone I was saying that you had to use it over Wi Fi
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somewhere in your house or elsewhere that it had Wi Fi. I wasn't saying
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it was a stand alone system. Okay, I apologize if I put that
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No, no, no that way. I just want to make sure you'll
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understand it's not stand alone you have it only remotely connects to your PlayStation.
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Now, other downside of that, possibly potentially maybe a small downside of that
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is if your PlayStation loses power, Now your portable handheld is like dud.
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You know, you can't use it because your PlayStation at home maybe doesn't have
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an Internet connection at home, or the power went out or whatever. Now
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the same thing goes for the Xbox if you're trying to stream your Xbox from
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home. But what game Pass has is that you don't have to have you
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don't have to stream your games from it. You can just play them.
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You can play them from the cloud. And you do have that. Well,
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okay, I'm going to leave that we have that. I want to
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double check before I commit to it, because if I commit to it and
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I'm wrong, Justin's going to rap me over the coals because I know never
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let you forget it. I will double check and get back to you on
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that, either later in the show or next week. But there also is
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a large portion of that PlayStation catalog that you can play that is cloud streaming.
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It puts like a three hundred and seventy five kilobyte file on your system
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and that's it. Yeah, but I'm gonna say that I've said my part
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for Sony, Justin said his part for peace for Xbox uh slash yeah,
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PC adjacent, but also the lineup, feel free, please feel free to
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make up your own minds. The line up. The lineup this generation though,
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the lineup this generation Xbox has so many more games. PlayStation has what
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Spider Man for like the fifth time that's the only thing Spider Man is.
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His back is breaking carrying the entire Sony lineup. Look at that. You
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keep Spider Man's name out here, all right, you know. So here's
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the thought. So for lou who's thinking, okay, and here we've thrown
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these other options out. A console, whether it be PlayStation, whether it
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be Xbox, we haven't. And then we talked about the handhelds. You
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know you've got that. You've got Nintendo Switch as well, which I don't
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know if people don't need Nintendo Switch to me, feels like the Wei.
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When the Wei came out, it was great, everybody wanted it, it
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did so much, and then the Nintendo just kind of sit. Yeah,
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they don't do anything with it. Yeah, they're just milking it to death,
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and there's nothing good about the Switch anymore. The other thing I want
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to say about a PC, if for a fourteen year old kid giving them
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their own PC. Now, I'm I have to talk about this with my
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own son when I do this. But you're talking about opening up a whole
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world of possibilities for your kid that might not be ready for it. We're
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talking about getting online on the internet, viewing websites, that they may not
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should be viewing, such as possibly pornography or anything like that that they should
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not be viewing. You can't do that, well, you kind of can,
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but not really on a console. So like, if you want to
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talk about more about protecting your child let them play games, maybe just get
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them a console. Yeah, or the other thought here and this, but
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this kind of doesn't really fit with what your comment there about going into a
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console instead of a PC is a laptop and I'm thinking, investment wise,
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is it better than for him to invest in a laptop up for a son,
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like an Asus Rock for a fourteen year old kid? I want to
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know, because they're gonna break it. They're gonna break it in a month,
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right. If they're not gonna break it, their chucklehead friend is going
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to accidentally break it and then be like, oh sorry, man, my
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bad. You remember, don't you remember? Guys, like years ago,
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when you wanted to go to your friend's house, you'd have to pack up
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that big old tower. Oh my gosh with the big old Crteam monitor.
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You love that. That was the workout? Yeah, land party, And
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who was it? I think it was Steel series put together put together a
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It was almost like a strap that you would wrap the tower in and you
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could wrap it over your shoulder. So you know I had one of those.
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Yeah, I'm sure I don't walking around now with like a little bit
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of a hump because they were carrying around their seventy pound you know tower.
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Yeah I did that. That was me, dude, that was literally me.
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Yeah. All right, listen, we got to take a quick break.
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I will tell you justin next week on the show, we're gonna be
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talking with the guy who runs pretty much the product marketing for Canopy and Canopy
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is a it's basically a service where they help protect the kid's eyes, protect
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the kids when from even adults, protect adults from content that they don't want
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to see online. So again, we're going to do that next week,
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but we are going to come back here. You took a trip in an
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electric vehicle. That surprised. That kind of blows me away because I'm thinking
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of all the things that could go wrong. But you'll tell us what went
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right. Coming up. I'm Andy Taylor, I'm Sean Dear, I'm Matt
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Jones, and I'm Justin. Let me find us on the web at tech
13:35
talkRADIO dot com. We'll be right back and now back to tech talk radio.
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In the effort of fairness, we referenced PC part picker. I went
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online and built a system to complete parody to the the NZXT player one right,
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like identical specs. And it was like three hundred dollars more to build
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it yourself. Oh, three and a dollar more. Really wow, Wow,
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it was more. It was already the same cost before he even threw
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in the operating system of the graphics card. But it's the experience of building
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it with your child. It's the experience of having those extra zeros in your
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Here's something else to think about now, I think on the on that system,
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if you buy it from nzxt right, they give you a three months
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of PC game Pass, which I believe they say is the equivalent of basically
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one hundred bucks. So you knock that off three months. No, dude,
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Xbox game Pass PC is like twenty bucks a month. So so set's
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only sixty dollars. Yeah, so sixty bucks off, right. You won't
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get that if you build it yourself. No, I'll get that. If
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you build it yourself, No, and you don't get the os, you
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don't get the well, you'd have to buy the OS separate. You only
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have the individual parts warranty and going through RMA for any dead parts is a
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nightmare. Yep. So you don't have any builders warranty, which that alone
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throws in some value to be able to call customers board or just I mean
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my buddy when he was visiting I want to say about a year ago,
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it was like, I haven't upgraded my PC in years, It's time to
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do it. We built him a monster machine and he got it and it
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was dead on arrival. Ride maybe. And another company also want to look
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at besides nz XT. NZXT, you know, they started as case manufacturer,
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then they started doing cooling and other parts like that. But there's also
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another company ze ax x I d AX and as anywhere from like very bare
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bones beginner systems up to like no, I don't have to respond to my
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wife about what my bank statement says like that level of customization. I actually
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had the pleasure of meeting I'm pretty sure he's the president of zide Ax on
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a vacation last year. And the fact that it went from just like this
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tiny little like I like to build PCs, this massive, like huge success
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story. Now they still stay really in touch with the roots of what they
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wanted to do at the start, and I might have to spend a little
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more over n ZXT to do his id acts, but I'll do that just
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for a company that remembers where they came from, you know, stays in
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touch to the roots of what they were trying to do originally, and really
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loves the the community that they're they're providing this service for. I have a
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feeling. Do you guys remember Abanda on the show a couple of years ago.
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I think I have a feeling she bought one of those and she was
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really happy with it. So that's that's good. She bought a laptop for
16:37
Yeah. Are you guys still feeling it when it comes to Alienware, I
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mean not at all. No, No, stopped feeling that as soon as
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Dell bought them, right, yeah, because Dell bought them out. And
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then next thing, you know, and then HP is their Voodoo system,
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which I again I have not had a chance to check that out. We
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looked at Alienware when it was owned by Alienware, and we were pretty impressed
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by you know, the specs and everything else. The price usually was a
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little higher than what you would buy, you know, on a rack system.
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Now I just don't know. I have no idea, like, there's
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no no reason to go alienware. Alienware is dead to me. It's not
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just that, it's also that I'm with you. It's dead to me.
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Same with Voodoo. They were another alienware competitor until HP bought them. But
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the super cool cases that they put everything in have like such poor thermal flow
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that reports are coming out that it like parts are just cooking inside of the
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PC. They bought a brand, gutted everything that made it special, and
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then added an extra zero to the price tag. I used to buy the
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cooler Master all the time, and I love Cooler Masters still do, still
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love them. Their stack which was basically two computers one on top of it.
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You know, one could be a server, one could be you know,
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a basic station, and then you'd have the full system down below that.
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I love the cooler Master half nine thirty two's but then I started buying
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fractal fractal designs g case and I'm really I'm really happy with the airflow in
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that the fan system is great. It doesn't come with a rear fan,
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but I or a top fan, and I'm not doing like justin over there
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with the liquid cooling. But I was really impressed with Fractal. Not too
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expensive too, a little cheaper than Cooler Master. I think sixty nine bucks
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for the non RGB model, and then if you want the RGV model,
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it's like ninety nine dollars. And I've been really happy with those. Fractals
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are good. What Sean, what do you have you built a computer recently?
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I bought a I mean I have a cooler Master case because I had
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to panic buy one when I upgraded that ten seventy tis old. Oh yes's
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right, because it didn't fit. That's right, So I panic bought just
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a cheap case, and I'd still have it. I think it's just a
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cooler. It's a cooler Master. So I have an upgradeed my case.
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I mean, I've upgraded the motherboards, mother things since then, but I'm
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just running a cooler Master. I like the thermal take ones. Those were
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those were pretty good too, but again I just found that you got better
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airflow out of the out of the Fractal. And the cooler Masters were great
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too, but they just they're a little more priceier. If you're thinking about
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going that run. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I migrated all
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my fans and stuff over, so I definitely am running proper temperatures and I
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don't have any I don't have any cooling issues. But yeah, I didn't
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go I didn't spend more than like fifty or sixty bucks on my case,
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so right, yeah, yeah, but that's one of the things you got
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to think about when building. The other is the OS. I'll be honest
19:42
with you. I think the first system I built recently, I went ahead
19:47
and I did the full you know, Amazon buying the license from Amazon.
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It was one hundred and I want to say fifty nine dollars for Windows eleven.
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I think it was, yep, it's Windows eleven Pro. Then the
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second one I did, I thought, well, let's do this dack social
20:03
thing and I was really happy with it, and it was it was good.
20:07
I went I downloaded the media, made you know, burnt the io
20:11
ISO very easily, and I saved a lot of money because it I think
20:15
it was I think twenty three dollars for Windows eleven. Wow. So I'm
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you know, I'm good. I'd rather put that extra, you know,
20:23
one hundred and twenty bucks into maybe a more ram or bigger, hard drive,
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the whole bit. So that's something to think about if you're going to
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be building building a system at any point. Yeah, all right, now
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we know that justin you took a trip, and I'll be honest with you,
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I was like, really wondering, how is this going to pan out?
20:41
I pictured you sitting somewhere in you know, in South Dakota, sitting
20:47
there waiting because your your e vehicle was not getting any you know, any
20:52
juice. Oh yeah, well no, we did. We we actually took
20:56
the Tesla. For those of you don't know, I bought my wife a
21:00
Tesla Model Y twenty twenty three. We bought that a few months ago and
21:04
we decided to take our first actual road trip. And so, honestly,
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the way up there, the way we drove from Denver North we went up
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to Cheyenne, Wyoming, and then we cut over to on the state highways
21:18
up to Lusk, Wyoming. So we had to stop at Cheyenne first.
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The day we left was a Wednesday, the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. We couldn't
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sleep. I mean we were waking up at one thirty, two, thirty
21:29
three, thirty four to thirty. Finally woke up at five am. We
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were on the road by five thirty. We got to Cheyenne by seven and
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the supercharger at the Cheyenne area was at the mall and there was nothing else
21:42
around there. I mean, like there's like an olive garden and what target
21:45
whatever, but everything was closed, but the mall was open just for like
21:49
people that want to walk the mall. You know. We charged throughout forty
21:52
five minutes. We walked the mall just to get a little exercise, and
21:55
then we got back in the car. And then we drove the state highways
21:57
up to Lusk, Wyoming, and there was a little a roadside motel that
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actually had a five bay Tesla supercharger there at the motel, so we plugged
22:07
in there for about twenty minutes. We let Eric play in a little playground
22:12
that was at the motel, and then we drove up to Custer, South
22:15
Dakota, and we stopped there at the gas station which was also a Tesla
22:18
supercharger, and we stopped there for about fifteen minutes and charged, and then
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we got to Rapid City and we still had about thirty percent battery left.
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And then at the hotel they had a third party charger. It was called
22:33
charge point, and you had to use the adapter. Now the adapter actually
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comes with the Teslas and it's a J one twenty two adapter, and so
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we would plug the Tesla in it. And now that one is not a
22:45
supercharger, so that one charges only at two hundred and twenty volt versus the
22:49
supercharger which charges at four hundred and forty volt. So obviously it was a
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lot a lot longer to charge, but we would just plug it in overnight
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and with the superchargers, each charge that we did, like and Chyenne for
23:00
forty five minutes was like eighteen bucks, Lusk was like ten bucks, Custer
23:07
was like eight bucks, and then the charger at the hotel was a dollar
23:14
per hour, and then after the car would get charged, it would stop
23:18
charging. So that ended up being around twelve dollars, and so we got
23:22
all the way there. So in retrospect looking back at it, would you
23:26
say it was a cheaper experience? It was pretty It was definitely cheaper than
23:30
gas, although you have to you know, obviously time and I guess if
23:36
you want to go by that ad old adage, time is money. Sure
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it may be me more expensive then, but if you have the extra time
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to spare, it was definitely cheaper on the pocketbook. And then the other
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cool thing about it was we basically I let I drove the entire way.
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Well, I mean I was in the I was in the driver's seat.
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Put it that way. I let the Tesla drive itself the entire nice and
24:02
it it handled it like a champ. I mean it was great. Every
24:06
every thirty seconds or so, it would ask me to put a little bit
24:08
of forced feedback on the steering wheel just to make sure that I'm still there
24:12
and I'm paying attention. About about an hour and a half into the drive,
24:15
I literally just stuck a water bottle into the into the steering wheel and
24:19
then it took over from there because the water bottle. The water bottle provided
24:23
that extra balance because if you if you it's hard to explain it, but
24:30
if you're driving on autopilot and a Tesla, the steering wheel will constantly jerk
24:36
about one degree to the left or to the right, and that is not
24:41
the car correcting itself, that is it figuring out if you're still there.
24:45
Were you surprised though, that there were so many charging stations along the way.
24:49
Were you happy with this? I was very happy with that. Yes,
24:52
No, I know there's a there's a ton of places that still can't
24:55
do it. I know our neighbors they wanted to buy a Tesla, but
24:57
they could it because they have family in rural Kansas and there's no charging stations
25:02
that way. Now Tesla is expanding, and also SOA's third party chargers.
25:06
They're expanding. It's just gonna be a matter of years before we have coverage
25:10
pretty much everywhere you want to go. But I want to talk about that
25:12
auto, that self driving. I mean, honestly, it was so easy
25:17
to fool the self driving by literally just sticking a water bottle into the steering
25:22
wheel to provide that little bit of one degree feedback that it was asking for
25:29
to make sure that I was still there. I put the water bottle in
25:30
it, and I just sat back with my hands on my head, and
25:33
I was like just driving, and the car was driving itself through the black
25:37
hills of South Dakota, whereas turn after turn after turn, and it was
25:41
perfect. Wow. Now, granted, on the way back, it was
25:47
a different story because we had weather that rolled through over Thanksgiving on Friday.
25:51
We had a snowstorm that rolled through Wyoming, South Dakota, a little bit
25:56
of Colorado. Wyoming. They don't take care of their roads after a snowstorm,
26:02
So driving through South Dakota was great, but they won't be hit Wyoming.
26:04
There was ice patches all over the road. Now, the one thing
26:07
about Tesla is Tesla is is it's a one pedal driving experience. You don't
26:14
necessarily need the break. It breaks on its own. If you let up
26:18
off the accelerator, the car starts to break and it uses that regenerative technology
26:26
to put energy back into your battery from the brakes. The problem is when
26:30
it's icy, what's the worst thing that you can do on an icy road
26:33
to the brakes? Hit the brakes. So the moment I would see an
26:37
icy patch coming up on the road, I would let up on the accelerator
26:41
and it would start to break and the Tesla would start to fishtail. Oh
26:45
that's not good, And I was like, no, no, no,
26:47
no, no, no, no no, no, don't do that.
26:48
But yes, granted, the abs would kick in, the regenerative break would
26:52
kick in and it would say, oh, we're sliding, and it would
26:55
stop and it would correct itself. But I did not allow it to drive
27:00
itself back on that time. First off, that and second off, I
27:03
was getting splashed by so much road debris with the snow and the slush that
27:10
all the camera systems of the Tesla got blocked, so the cameras couldn't even
27:15
see the road. So it wasn't going to allow me to do self driving,
27:21
so I had to drive the whole way back. But I also decided
27:23
and we got down to Lusk, and instead of going straight south down to
27:27
Torrington and back down to Cheyenne, which would have saved us time, those
27:33
are state highways, and again Wyoming does not take care of the roads,
27:36
I decided to go west from Lusk all over to I twenty five and then
27:38
just take I twenty five straight south to Denver, which added an extra hour
27:42
and a half. So our seven hour drive with charging seven hours turned into
27:48
an eight and a half hour drive, and that sucked. We left at
27:51
seven in the morning, didn't get back to almost four. All right,
27:53
Now, I wanted to find out about that, and I'm glad it was
27:56
a good experience. But this past week we were kind of going back and
28:00
forth about open AI and there is some strange stuff that has happened. And
28:08
if you've been following this, the CEO uh and the partner that got founder,
28:14
the founder of the co found founder and the co founder co founder UH
28:18
well got bounced. Well, sam Altan got bound bounce out of there.
28:21
And then the co founder said I'm out too, and he went over to
28:23
Microsoft. Microsoft said yes, we'll take you, and you know, we'll
28:26
make you a part of Microsoft, and blah blah blah. Then a few
28:30
days later they fired the board at open AI and they brought sam Altman and
28:34
Brockman back. But there's a little bit more to that. Yes, the
28:40
board fired sam Altman, okay, because they had disagreements, and it was
28:45
unknown at the time what the disagreement was. They fired sam Altman. Then
28:49
then yes, Greg Brockman also quit, and Microsoft said, hey, we
28:55
invested eighteen billion dollars into your company. If you don't want them, we'll
29:00
and we'll take Greg Brockman with them, and we'll take all seven hundred of
29:04
your developers. And all the developers are like, yeah, okay, we'll
29:08
go to Microsoft. And then the board was like, well, hell,
29:11
if this happens, we don't have a company anymore. We're done. So
29:15
the board said, all right, we're gonna bring Sam Altman back. We're
29:18
gonna bring Greg back. And then the board was got The board got fired,
29:22
the board of directors got fired. But here's the kicker. I actually
29:26
agree with the board what really because when it comes down to it, what
29:33
happened was the board was concerned about expanding too quickly and recklessly creating artificial intelligence
29:45
that will destroy humanity. Sam Altman wants to just create artificial intelligence and expand
29:52
make more money capitalist bs as usual, and he did not want to have
29:56
anything to do with the the the responsibility that comes along with this AI,
30:06
and the board was deathly afraid of creating what we might know as Skynet.
30:11
And Sam Mountain's like, now, screw that, We're gonna make money.
30:15
So I actually agree with the board the fact that Microsoft was so eager to
30:18
bring Sam and his developers onto them. I literally thought that Microsoft would be
30:25
the creator of skynet. We've got an interview we did last week, but
30:30
of course we didn't do the show before all of this really kind of imploded.
30:34
With a specialist in legal when it comes to what happened at open AI,
30:40
Colin s. Levy, who's written books on technology and legality. You
30:45
think of things like intellectual property, you think of how this all played out.
30:49
So even though you know, lots changed since we talked with him,
30:53
we're going to talk with Colin Levy all about what happened at open AI.
30:57
And that's standing by. I'm Andy Taylor, I'm Shawdward, I'm Matt Jones,
31:00
and I'm Justin. Let me send us a tweet or an X at
31:04
tech talk Radio. We'll go back now back to tech talk Radio as we
31:10
talked about a little earlier. No doubt the drama that has enfolded at open
31:15
AI is pretty amazing. Justin was going back and forth with me on the
31:22
day that this all happened, saying do you believe what's going on? And
31:25
then I would tell him yeah, and and his co founder is out too,
31:29
and he's like, everybody's gonna leave. And there's so many people speculating
31:33
and looking at this, but you know, it's a it's a whole new
31:36
world now when it comes to technology, and of course, as you can
31:38
imagine, this has created many inroads in the world of legal and of course
31:45
technology, combining them together. An illegal practitioner and author who's written some great
31:49
books on this as well. Colin s Levy is with us on the line.
31:53
Colin, great to talk to you. Great to be on the line
31:56
with you. Great to have you on tech Talk Radio. You have a
31:59
couple of books, The Legal Tech Handbook and the Legal Tech Ecosystem, which
32:02
is innovation advancement in the future of law practice. Let's face it, in
32:07
the last you know, thirty forty years, we have seen technology come up
32:12
and I think some people just sit there shaking their heads, going how do
32:15
we control this? Yeah, there's a lot going on, and I think
32:19
that the legal industry in particular has been both resistant to change in technology as
32:28
well as at least historically perhaps intimidated slash fearful of technology. And I think
32:37
we've seen that change, particularly recently with the sort of widespread rise and use
32:45
of interatve AI solutions. Oh absolutely, Colin. I'll tell you a really
32:49
good example of this. And this played out with a combination of technology and
32:53
legal So last year I worked for a huge radio corporation. They're one of
32:59
the big and it was interesting because when we started to see AI develop,
33:05
sure, you had salespeople that were interested in using it to help create and
33:08
generate commercial content, you know, as far as scripts for a commercial.
33:14
But us in programming we were like, oh, this is going to be
33:16
cool. We saw some really neat aspects of it. One of those was
33:22
a voice called voice AI, and so we started using it to create contests
33:27
where we would have a celebrity voice and doing a contest you had to figure
33:31
out what movie he was doing or she was doing. And it's funny.
33:37
Once legal got a hold of it, though, they said stop it,
33:39
stop it right away, even though this was personally available and we weren't saying
33:45
it was that celebrity. The line is, we don't know how this is
33:49
all going to be regulated, and it could get us in a lot of
33:52
financial trouble for the company. So suddenly Voice AI was no longer going to
33:55
be available to us. Yeah, I mean, I think that that the
34:00
problem these days with AI, particularly with a respect to the sort of use
34:05
of people's voices, is it's becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish between what's real and
34:10
what's not because it's becoming even more just. It's sounding more and more authentic,
34:16
and in addition, they're also to your point has largely been a lack
34:22
of any type of regulatory framework with respects to the legal use of AI and
34:28
all that. So we've had to rely on existing laws in terms of copyright,
34:30
in terms of impersonation, and I think largely the impersonation argument, it's
34:37
what's largely been driving sort of the pushback against AI generated voices, particularly those
34:45
of known celebrities, politicians, and other figures that are well known and could
34:52
likely you know, are very sensitive to the use of their voice and their
34:57
likeness. Now, corporate legal departments really gonna have to make some changes,
35:00
aren't they. I mean, when it comes to regulating some of this technology
35:06
that maybe their employees may use that could again get the company in financial trouble.
35:09
Yeah, there's definitely going to be, I think, and we've already
35:14
seen I think a rise in the focus on developing policies with respect to use
35:19
of AI tools, by whom, when, where all that. And it's
35:24
not just simply I think in terms of potential use cases like using someone's voice,
35:30
but also in terms of sharing data, particularly sensitive data, because we've
35:35
seen that can sometimes lead to trouble like what happened Samsung and employees sharing very
35:39
sensitive data with ar official intellergent solution, and that solution then used it to
35:45
sort of train itself. So certainly, I think we're going to see more
35:49
and more policies being developed by legal departments around use and around sharing of data
35:54
and all of that. Uh. And also largely I think we're going to
35:58
see also revision into existing privacy whiles to govern sort of the sharing of data,
36:02
use of data, and storage of data. Buy companies, including but
36:07
not limited to artificial intelligence creators. Well, Colin, I have to ask
36:12
you, what made you decide that this was kind of a road. You
36:15
know, there's so many different aspects of law that somebody could go into.
36:20
I grew up knowing a municipal court judge and her husband was a trial attorney.
36:25
What made you decide that technology is really something that is going to be
36:29
on the forefront in the coming years as you were growing up. Well,
36:32
you know, it's funny. When I was a kid and using kind of
36:37
my first computer and all that, I found it actually fairly intimid and fear
36:40
inducing, and so at first I kind of actually was a little bit afraid
36:45
of technology. But as I grew older and then saw technology become easier and
36:51
easier to use, and also saw impacting other industries. I thought to myself,
36:54
you know, this is perhaps something really worth paying attention to. And
36:58
then fast forward working for a big law firm in New York City prior law
37:02
school, was a paralegal doing some eDiscovery works of using tools or trunk tools
37:07
to create databases of documents for use in litigation, and saw then and there
37:13
the application of technology to law, and that really sparked my interest. And
37:16
I saw how technology really could be impacting the practice and business of law and
37:22
thought, you know what, I really want to learn more about this because
37:24
I see the right on the wall. Technology is continuing to grow and its
37:28
influence and power run other industries. The legal industry is not immune to these
37:32
changes and will undergo them, and I want to be at the forefront of
37:36
that because I want to you know, I don't want to become outdated by
37:39
the time I'm really fully practicing. So that really sort of started me off
37:44
on this journey. That's kind of actually a smart way to think, especially
37:46
with business now, we need to be able to understand what is going on
37:51
in technology so that you know, as the businesses change and adapt. We
37:54
can also go with it, but again knowing the boundaries when it comes to
37:59
the legal app aspects of what we may be doing within a company. This
38:02
whole opening and eye think that's been going on, isn't the first time something
38:07
like this has happened, is it? Yeah? No, There's always been
38:09
I think tension between the advancement of technology and sort of the boundaries of what
38:15
that should be and the ethical use of it and all that. So I
38:20
don't think that this tension between sort of experimentation and learning and commercialization is anything
38:25
new at all. I think that the problem really is just that technology has
38:30
advanced so far so quickly that I think it's caught perhaps some off guard and
38:36
also perhaps caught some by surprise in terms of just how powerful these technologies are.
38:42
And so I think you know that there's this increasing tension in terms of,
38:46
well, we don't want to inhibit innovation, but on the other hand,
38:49
we also want to make sure that we're innovating safely and properly, not
38:52
putting ourselves or others at risk while doing so. Well, Colin, if
38:57
you could tell us a little bit about your latest book, Legal Tech,
39:00
Ecosystem Innovation, advancement and the future of law practice kind of takes a look
39:05
at all of this, how is this laid out? And who would be
39:07
reading this book? Sure, so the book really is intended to be a
39:10
thematic, antdotal overview of sort of world legal tech, and the way it's
39:16
sort of framed is indeed as an ecosystem, because I look at legal tech
39:21
is it's not just about technology or people or businesses. It's really about all
39:25
of them becoming interdependent one another, influencing the path of one another. And
39:30
so really, because they're all interconnected, it's important see things through that multifaceted
39:37
lens. And that's really kind of the approach the book takes. But it
39:39
also incorporates stories from those that I've had conversations with and those I've learned from,
39:45
because I really think it's important to sort of hear the stories of those
39:50
who have themselves explored this space, learned about it, and then ultimately been
39:54
successful in either creating their own solutions or teaching or both. And really it's
40:00
meant to sort of what your appetite and be inspiring and help you, you
40:04
know, become sort of more versant in legal tech and really in that you
40:09
know. In that case, it's really aimed at legal professionals, whether you're
40:13
a lawyer, a law student, a more experienced attorney, or someone who
40:19
frankly hasn't even you thought about law, but is interested in the intersection of
40:23
law and tech because I think that you know that relationship impacts so many different
40:28
areas that you know, it's important to be aware of it regardless of what
40:31
your background is. And it's meant to be very super you know, accessible.
40:36
It's not really taking a very tech heavy approach. It's not sort of
40:38
some kind of you know, how to guide. It's really just sort of
40:44
your introduction to the space and allows you to kind of see the different aspects
40:49
of the space and then once you're done with the book, pursue whatever area
40:52
within it you want to based off of what you've gotten excited about from reading
40:55
the book. Have we seen Colin that the higher age canations establishments are kind
41:01
of delving into this now and when it comes to you know, legal practices,
41:06
are they also looking at how it applies how the you know, Internet,
41:09
intellectual properties and all of this stuff will apply to to law. Absolutely.
41:14
I think we've seen law firms and legal departments of life both really start
41:19
taking a hard look at sort of how technology is impacting all these different areas,
41:22
and as a result, we've also seen the increasing companies that are aimed
41:27
at helping legal departments and law firms assist with various matters, whether it be
41:30
a system of managing intellectual property, managing patterns, looking at analytics from a
41:37
litigation perspective in terms of whether it makes sense to actually litigate this matter or
41:43
settle it or whatever based off of prior court data and prior decisions that have
41:46
been that have come out. It's also assisting with the management of contracts.
41:52
You know, there's a number of companies that assist company legal departments with managing
41:55
contracts and kind of drafting them, negotiating them, viewing them, even providing
42:00
feedback on them. So I really think that, you know, legal departments
42:06
and law firms, at least the smart ones are really taking account of this
42:08
and trying to take advantage of it to better sort of assert themselves and be
42:13
more attracted to their clients, who are likely very tech savving aware of these
42:17
things and expecting their legal folks to be aware and be using some of these
42:22
tools. Oh, absolutely, when it comes to some of these tools that
42:23
are available, What are like some of the big mistakes that you've seen And
42:28
I'm you know, I don't I don't want to see a face palm when
42:30
when you hear about it or do you see it? But what are some
42:32
of the mistakes that are made when evaluating some of these tools when it comes
42:37
to legal technology. Yeah, well, I think one of the biggest mistakes
42:39
I see is people going straight for a certain tech solution without fully understanding what
42:46
pollowm it is they're trying to solve. So what happens is they end up
42:51
kind of getting afflicted with what I'm what I would call shiny key syndrome.
42:54
They see a shiny piece of tech think that, oh, this is so
42:58
cool, it's so pretty, it's you know, advanced and modern. Surely
43:01
this can help me. Well, that may not necessarily be the case,
43:05
because it ultimately depends on what it is that you're trying to solve for.
43:09
So my advice really is to start with before you even look at tech,
43:14
understand what problem it is you're trying to solve, because if it's a people
43:16
problem, if it's a culture problem, technology can't necessarily help with that that
43:22
may be something that you just have to deal with internally with people and processes
43:25
and what have you. So it really comes down to making sure you know
43:29
what problem you're trying to solve for. So that's I think one you know
43:32
mistake I see people making. I see another one, which is all right,
43:37
So you already so you've got this tool, You've done your due diligence,
43:39
you've selected you want, you're putting it in place, except you forgot
43:45
one thing. You include your users and stakeholders along the way. So now
43:49
you have this piece of technology that you've spent all the time and money putting
43:52
into place and expecting people to use. But the people you're expecting them to
43:57
use it, this is the first time they're hearing about it, and so
43:59
they're kind of wondering themselves, why do I have to do this just because
44:02
someone's telling me to do it? And what that ends up creating is basically
44:07
shelfware, where you have software just sort of theoretically sitting on a shelf somewhere
44:12
not being used because there's no sort of interest or ownership of the users in
44:17
using the tech. And so that's why I think it's super important when you're
44:22
evaluating potential tech solution, to have your stakeholders and users be part of that
44:27
process from day one in terms of evaluating, in terms of using, because
44:31
you want them to be invested in it as well, because ultimately, technology's
44:36
power comes not just from the technology itself, but from those who use it.
44:39
Right exactly now, when you look at this situation with open ai,
44:44
and that sounds similar what you just talked about, You've got a board and
44:47
you've got these two guys that you know founded this company, and suddenly one
44:52
of them's out. Can you kind of, you know, in a nutshell
44:55
explain maybe what happened right that share? I'm laughing because basically what happened was
45:02
the opposite of what should have happened, right, you know. I think
45:08
that the board a was unusual in that it was relatively small and mostly composed
45:15
of insiders, meaning employees of the company. And normally, when you are
45:20
enacting a leadership change, especially with respect to someone who's kind of a super
45:25
high level, very prominent leader, you have a transition plan in place.
45:30
You know, you have idea, you have a set idea of Okay,
45:32
this person's stepping back or moving on this person's going to take over, this
45:37
person's going to do this, that person's going to do that. You've got
45:42
kind of a good pr approach in terms of how you're going to announce it
45:45
and how you're going to frame it. You've got you know, different documents
45:50
in terms of board resolutions supporting decision making and showing that it was done in
45:54
a proper systematic way. And ultimately what happens here was none of that happened
46:00
from what I can tell, at least based off of the women of information
46:04
available the board, A small one basically just keeps Altman out, you know,
46:09
because of a disagreement in terms of the direction of the company, with
46:15
no clear transition plan in place, with no clear sort of idea of exactly
46:21
how things would proceed further, it just created this really massive soap opera that
46:25
no one wanted along the company by sort of this strip group of just negative
46:30
news, rumors, misinformation, and so you know, it's really kind of
46:35
not just put a big hole in the open AI ship, but it's also
46:38
in some ways disigaretting the ship. So I would say that the new CEO,
46:45
you know, Heaven help them in terms of him writing the ship,
46:47
because he has to rebuild the ship as well as write the ship, and
46:52
that's really tough, particularly for someone like the new CEO, who from all
46:55
accounts does not have a super strong background in an AI at all. It's
47:00
gonna be interesting because now with the move of Altman going over to Microsoft,
47:07
is there also now the look at the legal ramifications of possibly coding he's I
47:15
mean, he's got created it, you know, with his company. Can
47:19
he do that? Can he actually go to Microsoft now and help them develop?
47:22
By all accounts, I don't think there's a huge amount of issue there,
47:25
in part because Microsoft is a minority partner of open Ai. They've invested
47:30
billions of dollars and haven't been at least agreed to termined to invest further.
47:34
So they're very close partners. So in terms of agreements that exist between the
47:37
two, I'm sure there's a lot of data shared. So I don't really
47:40
think there's a huge kind of legal issue with Altman working now for Microsoft,
47:45
and likely Microsoft is wanting to hire him more from open AI because I think
47:51
as far as Microsoft is concerned, well, if open ai is wan apart,
47:54
why don't we just establish sort of a new Open AI within Microsoft,
47:59
which I think is a shrewd and pragmatic approach for Microsoft to take, and
48:02
it looks like they're moving in that yeah direction, not to mention the fact
48:07
that they because of the they're a huge investment, they want to see a
48:10
payoff on that obviously, and this open Ai drama I think has shifted their
48:15
perspective in terms of, well, we invested all this money in open Eye,
48:17
but you know, let's get a return on that investment by because they're
48:22
falling apart by just hiring their employees and so, you know, I don't
48:25
think there's really a huge issue there. The only thing that potentially could be
48:29
an issue would be if there's any kind of noncompete clause with employees between Microsoft
48:34
and open Ai, but that doesn't seem to be much of an issue from
48:37
all accounts at this point. Yeah, I'm sure the Microsoft lawyers would have
48:39
looked at that first before you know, announcing that he was yeah, big
48:44
but part of that team. Now I'm I'm kind of wondering that where's Apple
48:47
in this? And you know, Justin and I talked about this earlier that
48:52
could Apple come in then and buy open Ai, But with Microsoft being such
48:57
a big investment on that, I don't know how that would play out.
49:00
I don't think Apple sees this as a huge concern, primarily because I'm sure
49:05
they're developing their own thing, and you know, I don't think they're really
49:07
wanting to kind of get involved in this at this point. Undoubtedly they've got
49:13
their own plans, So I don't think there's a huge kind of issue there
49:15
right now. That being said, you know, given that Apple Microsoft have
49:22
long been sort of direct competitors in front of these at times, I think
49:27
that you know, Apple is certainly thinking about, Okay, how does this
49:30
impact us in what should we be doing? But I don't see them really
49:34
trying to make a move on open Ai at this point. But as we've
49:38
seene already over as few days, the soap opera, like any other soap
49:43
opera, is you know, somewhat unpredictable. Well, The Legal Tech Ecosystem,
49:49
Innovation, Advancement and Future of Law Practice is available now and Amazon wherever
49:54
books are sold. You also have the Legal Tech Handbook, And honestly,
49:58
Colin, I love your website. All in slev dot com c O L
50:02
I N s L e v Y dot com You've got great video up there,
50:07
great content for anybody who wanted maybe wants to get a better explanation of
50:10
the law and how it applies to technology. Again, callin slev dot com.
50:15
Yeah you know, I mean really, my goal in terms of legal
50:19
tech is inform, inspire others, and support the community. And anything I
50:23
can do to do that, I'm all for. So you know, that's
50:27
why the website is there, That's why the books are there. So you
50:30
know, I'm just doing what I can to help support and grow the community.
50:32
Well, thank you so much Colin for coming on tech Talk Radio,
50:36
and of course we want to tell our listeners make sure you sign up on
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50:55
you. We will be back with more of tech Talk Radio. Make sure
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You could sign up there, subscribe and be able to check out videos and
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whenever we host them. In the meantime, we'll be back with more of
51:15
tech Talk Radio. And now back to tech Talk Radio. And this is
51:20
the time of the year. We started thinking about some of the cool things
51:22
that we might want from the holidays, and Sean brought something up and I
51:25
was like, oh my god, I have been wanting this for like two
51:30
maybe three years since they started doing this. It's not a graphics card,
51:34
it's not a processor, it's not a big screen, it's not a curve.
51:37
It's an ugly sweater. It's an ugly sweater. Yeah, buddy,
51:40
the last couple of years, Microsoft has been putting out these epic ugly sweaters.
51:46
Right, last year it was clippy and this year it's the Windows XP
51:52
background that it looks so landscape, right, is that land it's the landscape.
52:00
Yeah. I put it in the chat. You can see it.
52:00
It's got a big old mouse cursor on it. It looks fantastic. I
52:05
bought it and I will wear it. I'm gonna be wearing it for the
52:08
next show. And it's gonna be fantastic. I did not even notice the
52:14
mouse cursor that's on that though. Yeah. The story behind this this photo
52:17
is pretty cool. It was a natural geographic photographer was just out driving around.
52:22
He stopped snapped a picture in Ireland. No, it's in California.
52:28
Yeah, and he showed it. He showed it to Uh, showed it
52:30
to a friend of his. He's like, that looks like a Windows background,
52:34
and he sent it to Windows and they paid him some money in there.
52:37
That's just it's literally the history of it. I could have sworn that
52:39
was in Ireland or something. And it's one of those pictures that everybody has
52:43
seen just every every day when that came out, every day people would look
52:49
at it, and we're talking hundreds of thousands of people would see that screen.
52:52
So they saw that that man's picture screen Hill in Sonoma, California,
53:00
off Highway twelve. That's where it's at, Sonoma, California. That's awesome.
53:04
I want one of these sweaters. Are they very expensive? Shun because
53:07
they say it was like sixty if. I think it was like sixty five
53:09
bucks. But they set out if they don't have they don't have smalls,
53:13
mediums, larges like, they're out of all the smaller sizes, so thankfully
53:17
I'm a little bit of a bigger guy like my sweaters to be big.
53:20
Anyways, So wait, that doesn't make any sense. What does it make
53:24
sense the fact that they're out of the smalls and not the largest because it
53:29
guys are usually bigger, right like, and they would be the ones to
53:32
buy this, right so you'd think that all the large and extra large would
53:36
be out of stote. Okay, anyway, whatever are you generalizing there?
53:38
Justin Yes you're in shape. Yes I am not in shape. So I
53:45
thought I saw it. I was like, this is excellent. I put
53:47
it on my Christmas list. But then I couldn't wait because I didn't want
53:50
to sell out, so I bought it. Where can I? Where can
53:52
I find this shun? You can buy it from the Xbox gear Shop,
53:57
Xbox gearst, xbox dot com, all Esdow Xbox All right, there you
54:01
go. I love it, and hopefully by next week you'll have it and
54:05
you'll wear it on the show if I if I get it in time,
54:07
but it said it would be here by like the math buying one right now?
54:10
Did you get one for all of us? I can see it in
54:15
his window in the background. Yea yeah, I can see the reflection of
54:19
his eyeballs. He's buying it. That is it for this week's tech Talk
54:22
Radio. Thank you for tuning in. I'm Andy Taylor, I'm Sean de
54:25
Weird, I'm Matt Jones, and I'm justin. Let me once again find
54:30
us on the web at tech talk radio dot com. Have yourselves great week. See you