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Kris Amliwala - The benefits of being a younger Financial Planner · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Chris Amluala, who is a chartered financial planner and he is part of designer wealth management, a family business in Leicester and London.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: He um he kind of fell into financial planning.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: He left university with a pharmaceuticals and cosmetics degree, but because his family ran a financial planning practice, they kind of roped him in because someone had left and he needed some help.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ten years later, he's still working there and he's absolutely loving working within financial planning.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And today he shares how he became chartered, the journey that he took.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: He was part of Open Works Academy, he was an IFA administrator, he went down that path.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So quite a cautious path, and he sort of advocates this for anybody who's unsure really if financial planning is for them.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: He also talks about being a younger financial planner and how to kind of differentiate yourself and build better relationships with older clients.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's also a massive advocate of financial education, part of the PFS workshops, where he goes out to charities, schools, and delivers free financial education.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he thinks this is something everybody should do, give back to the community.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Great guy.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy the podcast.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, thanks so much to join me today on the um Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are you today?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, thank you, Sam.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning to you on uh lockdown number two, the day of lockdown number two.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I sort of promised myself I wouldn't talk about lockdown and coronavirus and all that kind of nonsense, but I'm gonna I'm gonna get straight into it.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's your thoughts this time round?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm not as bothered by it this time round.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel as anxious or as worried.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: How about you?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think if you've lived through something once, you get a better understanding.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's less new, um, there's less change in terms of you know, we've got that experience, we've been through it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but personally it's a little bit frustrating because um what's legally I got married in March.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have the Indian ceremony because it was postponed.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we were four days in um to the new the first lockdown.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: We rescheduled for the 28th of November, yeah.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's obviously in this second lockdown, so we're gonna have to reschedule for the third time, which is a bit of a pain.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I assume that's a traditional Indian wedding.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the original plan was to have the wedding in the morning and then a massive reception party in the afternoon, um, and the evening.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we thought fine, we can we can reschedule the wedding now, yeah, with 30 people and have it like a drive-thru cinema.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody comes to the car park, they stay in their cars, they'll have the screen, the food will come to them.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll have 15 people inside.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but even that's not allowed right now, so we're gonna have to go for version three soon.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so many people.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I actually feel quite sorry for a lot of people that have had to change their plans around weddings because I mean there's a lot of planning that goes into it.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, I personally didn't have a massive wedding because of that very reason.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a massive planner, so we buggered off to um Portugal in the mountains, and me and my wife got married up there, and it's like yoga retreat a friend of ours runs.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's quite relaxed.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we were meant to be having a party when we came back, and we sacked that off as well because neither of us could could organize a bloody piss-up in a brewery, to be completely honest with you.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um we we sort of sacked that one off.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: But now I feel do feel sorry for people that have spent a lot of time and money and energy on on booking.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of upset brides out there, a lot of people I know, well, brides to be anyway.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: How about um how about business though?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: What you know, what did you learn from lockdown one that you're gonna take into lockdown two around how to run your financial planning practice?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so lockdown one just allowed me time to focus.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was doing less stuff and more focused activity on me, the business, and the way I want my side of the practice to grow and and add value to clients.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um this time around, uh yes, it's four weeks, but it's still another opportunity.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to focus down of you know, developed to redevelop to business plan.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's just time to put that into action more so that than before.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you took that time out the last time round to focus on you.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So did you what sort of focusing on personal development, changing the structure of your business, uh, being able to see clients without having to be face to face?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: What was it you did to to develop your business and develop yourself?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think personal development is is definitely a big thing for me.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Being a charter financial planner, firstly, being a registered life planner and and is is great.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I did that in the past, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So now it's time to work on the business a little bit more and to bring everything in balance in terms of yes, my qualifications are great.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's time to bring up the processes and how to get more clients, more business, and to deliver more value where possible.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's why I just reinvented my business plan.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and now's just time to action that and take that further.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: You said that there, like, and you know, the qualification side of it, the focus in on yourself as a planner, that's the you know, that's the past.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: You've done your qualifications, you've done your life plan.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I can see you've done your um, is it life planning qualification?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: You did that through oh, is it Kin?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah, it's there's the Kind industry.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I became a writer for life planner a few years ago now.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, also became a chartered financial planner a couple years ago, also.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think do you think sometimes that you spend you can spend a lot of your time doing qualifications as a financial planner, a lot of your time on personal development, but actually missing the point and not doing as much around business development, driving the business forward, winning new clients, the stuff which is which is probably the hard part of the job, really, for some.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I'm I'm not gonna lie, I think some of that stuff was a little bit of procrastination, let's do the study stuff then.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: The clients all come.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, if I had to turn back time, I would do it differently.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's like kind of you know, I've gone to the shop, I've bought the fishing hook, I've bought the rod, I've got the best boat in town.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, I need somewhere to go, I need to start catching some catching some fish now.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, absolutely.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's interesting.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's good, that's good to hear, and that's refreshing.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it is about winning clients, isn't it?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's about winning those introducer relationships, it's about getting yourself in front of somebody with the right message to be able to deliver that financial planning that you spend so much money, time, and energy on developing through qualifications and training.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a real good lesson for anybody listening anyway, that the qualifications and the personal development doesn't make the planner.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to have a good plan of action.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And procrastination is key.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can do that myself, you know, in my business.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'll sit there, sort of, well, I'll just do this, I'll just focus on this, and you know, that that will help me get further down the line.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it adds value, but uh not as not as valuable as picking up the phone and speaking to 20 people does in in in one day.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I always find I get the most out of a day if I'm talking to 10 to 20 people, you know, I always do.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: When I do, 10 to 20 is quite a lot, to be honest.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all right, brilliant.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously, the Financial Planner Live podcast, it's all about understanding who you are as a financial planner, your journey, um, your ups, your downs, and all that type of stuff.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: What I always love to start with, really, um, Chris, is just to understand how you ended up getting into financial planning, how you became a financial planner.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Purely by accident.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So my first degree was in pharmaceutical and cosmetic sciences.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So totally different to financial planning, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I then went to Guildford and I did a master's degree in business management.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the sum it was a 12-month course, and the summer term of that was just writing a 15,000-word dissertation for me.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought I'd come back home because there were no lectures lectures or anything.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because we have a family business, and towards the end of that summer term, one Monday morning, my mother, the office manager, sacked somebody.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: In the afternoon, I went to go help out, and that was seven years ago.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you got pulled into the family business then, yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, so because we're part of the open web network, um, soon after I joined, they started the the Ocademy graduate scheme.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was on the first intake.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I got my level four diploma with the Institute of Um before it was the L IBF.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um IFS, IFS, yes, thanks.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um in about eight or nine months, so which was great.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I learned all the technical skills straight away.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I still wasn't personally ready, I don't think, to to sit with clients and advise them.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just wasn't confident in myself enough.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's why I just sought out something different and thought, well, actually, yeah, the kinder stuff looks really good.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it went along for the two days, was like, wow, okay, because I actually met George Kinder himself.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I was like, okay, fine, this is nice.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, I could do some studies to become charted, and I switched to the Personal Finance Society as well.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then just topped up my qualifications using my master's degree, using the IFS work, and just plowed forward.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple of years afterwards, I became both a registered life planner.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think at the time I was probably one of the youngest globally.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think now there's still less than 500 globally recognized registered life planners, which is just an amazing stat.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: More people should definitely, you know, look out for that and even do the two days if you can't do the whole course in one go.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I became Charles.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay, cool.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what else can I procrastinate with now?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, I have to go start seeing some clients.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I was getting some clients along the way, but you know, I wasn't actively looking, it was very much passive for me.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you fell into financial planning.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there was an opportunity that came up.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Poor bugger got sacked, and uh mum gave you a call, said come on in to help us out and kept you there.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds um that's definitely falling into it.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So working within a so are you still working within the family business?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you are your family all still involved in it, or is it just yourself?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Did you take it over?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, no, so we're still going.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's uh well me, my father, and my mother.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the business has been going for over 30 years.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: We have six or seven support staff in various different roles to help with mortgages and and administration and and so on.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, that that's the future.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, it doesn't feel like work having conversations with the clients and and letting somebody else do some of the admin.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's really enjoyable.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not too taxing because you know the clients that I'm choosing to work with are you know ones that I want to work with.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I hope I can continue for many decades to come.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, great.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so kind of luckily fell into a ready-made business.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the usual route that people go down, and I get contacted on a regular basis by people that are saying, Sam, how do I become a financial planner?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: How do I get into the profession?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not everybody unfortunately has a family that are already working, you know, with with within the within the industry.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing to to it's very different to what other people are doing.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: You also mentioned there about the Kinder, the the Kinder Life Planning certificate, isn't it?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they're uh what's it called again?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, Kinder the registered life planning qualification.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: The registered life planning qualification.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Could you just sort of elaborate on why you think people should actually do that qualification?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: What what value or benefit does it add to a financial planner's career?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think all the qualifications out there are great technical knowledge, it's not getting along with people.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a financial plan is great, but it's not going to be implemented if it's just technical.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have to engage on a different level with with any client to really allow them to or allow you to see what their vision is.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think my role is well, yeah, we all know money's money's a tool, right?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: But how's it gonna make your life, Mr.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: and Mrs.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Client, better?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not about saving everything you've got for the future.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Equally, it's not about spending all your money now.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's a balance in between, and that's a unique pivot point for each individual.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the life planning course allows you to just listen, shut up and listen to somebody, find out what they really want, help probe them without them really knowing to get more why from their life, and then it's my role to then cash flow plan and then you know suggest suitable recommendations that are going to help them live the best life they can.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that before you did a course like that and you would approach a client, a potential client, a prospect, did you have already a pre-loaded impression in your mind about that client?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And was it kind of, I want to sell them something, or I want to get them to use my services?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to take a pension out through me or invest some money.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: I hope they've got loads of money.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have a sort of pre-programmed thought of what that person would be before you went into the meeting?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And did doing the life planning certificate change that?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I did.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think yes, uh, an ideal client was one with just some money to do something with.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I never had a sales background, I still don't, in terms of they have to buy a pension off me or anything like that.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'd never had that.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was just yeah, actually, you know, I've got to help this client.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: How can I help them better?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how can I be different?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: What more can I do for them?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And why are they gonna see me over somebody else?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I'm gonna help them live the life they want to better than anybody else can.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: I hope.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's all I think.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so but did did doing that qualification, did it sort of separate, did it get you to think differently about your approach to prospecting new clients?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it allowed me once the client was here, just to put them at the focus of everything, even more so that than any other thing can do.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, there are various sales processes that you have to follow, but the client has to come first.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: That that's just that just reinforced it for me to allow them to put themselves first, their family, their wishes, their plans, and the money will follow.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay, cool.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so great.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So your mindset is all about understanding that individual, that client, what their personal circumstances are.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, interestingly though, when if I was to become a financial planner, I just don't I don't think every person out there understands what a financial planner does.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when you sit down with your clients or sit down with a prospect, do they have an eye?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do they sort of already have a sort of feeling of what you're going to be like?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Have they not got a clue?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: What what's their approach usually to you when you sit down with them?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Are they nervous, anxious?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Are they worried?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: What's the situation?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think some people naturally will say, I've got a pension problem, I need to speak to somebody.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Who do I speak to?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: They might go to an accountant, they might go to a solicitor, but eventually, you know, they'll they'll seek somebody out with like there's a financial planner.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, so that they just have a money problem and they want to get it sorted.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: They don't care who's talking to them as long as they're appropriately qualified.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: There are people that have had bad experiences with advisors, maybe from the 80s or 90s, and have lost trust.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are people that have advisors or mortgage brokers at the time now, but they don't have somebody that gives them a joined up thinking approach.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think being a good financial planner incorporates all of that, having the technical knowledge to cover a breadth of different services and propositions, but with the client and their life journey at the forefront.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so no, I don't think they really know what a good financial planner is or does.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's kind of the job to or in the first meeting is to break down some of those barriers, just explain the process.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we're here to support you, not here to sell you anything, here to support you and your life's goals.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we do earn a fee, but it's all pounds and pence declared up front before you undertake any charge of activity.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no hidden surprises.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here to support you if you'd like to work with me.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you sometimes go in there with and and and and they're sort of, well, you know, I've spoken to a financial planner before, I've I've had some financial advice, but actually, when they walk away, they're quite surprised at the level of detail proper true financial planning actually um is and does for them and plans for their future.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like um it's not just selling a product, is it?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, financial planning is about easing that person's um worries and their concerns about their future wealth.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: How are they going to survive when they get older?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: When can they retire?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: They've got a picture in their head, haven't they, of retiring at the age of 65 and it's gonna look like this, where actually some people are like, oh, I can retire now, or I or I can't retire at 65, or oh my god, to retire at 65, I need to put this much money away, or or whatever it might well be.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um do you find that they do tend to walk away a little bit more like, wow, that was a different experience from the traditional financial advice of just you know, here's a bond, here's an investment, here's a pension plan, off you pop?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, yes.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I think they are pleasantly surprised.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and at the same time, because they kind of understand the process and know that it's focused on them.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I hope some stress and some worry gets removed from their shoulders, maybe not in the first meeting, but over the course of those initial meetings, definitely.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see that though?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something you see is the stress and the worry start to diminish?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's the reason I ask it because if I I'm interested in financial planning as a career, you know, I am interested myself as a career.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And my sort of my thought process around it is I want to help people, I want to provide a well-being solution.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I do think financial planning is so it can be positioned so well to help with well-being and wellness.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you do you get that connection with clients or are they just not that bothered by that side of it, or is it a personal thing?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I think the clients that that really uh choose me to begin with.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I there are clients that tell me they've shopped around and you know, they've interviewed five or six different advisors.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow that you know that they stick with me or you know, want to engage with me.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is because I'm different and it's it's all about them, and and there's there's nothing wrong with that.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the best way to go.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Focus on them, plan their finances, do a cash flow plan, and then if needed, and only if needed, then recommend a ISA pension, mortgage life, whatever, whatever it's going to be, that all comes afterwards.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because how do you know what to recommend if you haven't understood your client and what they want?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to the very start, then.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you obviously lucked out there, you got a job job opportunity with your parents, yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good news.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you mentioned that you went through the open work academy.
• 19:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's still going the open work academy, because I was doing some work with two plan, which are a uh pretty large um financial planning network, but they're underneath open work now, yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And they they they bolt onto the open the open work academy, getting people through their qualifications and then placing them within the two-plan AR practices that sit underneath the two two plan company.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: So just talk to me a little bit about that academy and your ex the your experience of it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I think academy, it's like, well, I go to my academy and I sit down and I've got a lecturer and all of that type of thing.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: What actually was the reality of an academy to study to become a financial planner?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, in the first iteration of it, as I was you know, in this uh several years several years ago, it has changed, it has developed, and there was a mixture.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: The idea was a mixture of both sit down in a in a small room with somebody that has done it to help teach to get the qualifications, but then also as part of the initial contract, it was sit down in a practice and learn what shadow and advisor and get some of those real skills as well.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So then hopefully by the end you can become an advisor.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was the personal skills as well as a bit of the technical.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's why I just want to take the personal skills further, and that's why I went from there into the kinder stuff.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it was more focusing on the technical, getting your level four, get getting you up to level four qualified, getting your head around the profession that you're getting into, what it means, the FSFCA requirements and compliance and all those typical types of things.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I did FPC one when I used to work for a Viva as a trainer, and it was so hyper technical at the time.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, it was just like you had to learn all these past legislations and stuff.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: At the time, I was training things out like um A Day.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: You remember the pensions A Day and all of that?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was I'm to train out all these pension stuff.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember it being quite heavy.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's something you've got to learn, isn't it?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: You've something you've you've you've you've got to understand.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you were doing the IFS route, which is now the L IBF.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a lot of people say the L IBF route isn't as good as going down the CII route, it's not as deep or as um, you know, um in depth.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: What's your thoughts on that?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: From memory, I think it was a little bit more practical, bit more case study based than just taking exams.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it all suit those people with that learning style that prefer, you know, a case study rather than just um an exam on the computer.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, I've effectively done both now.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, it's your learning practice.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's obviously there as a qualification to let you advise at the suitable level.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think one person's opinion doesn't matter as much as the other, as long as what's right for you, because it gets the qualification that gets you to advise, right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my thought process.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: If I was to become a qualified financial planner, if I wanted to become a financial planner, I'd just go down the L IBF route.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to me, it's like, well, that's the quickest and most cost effective way of becoming.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Financial planner.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I might not be head in the books, book smart, you know, done every single exam under the sun, but what does it matter?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm level four qualified.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that in the future, as more and more financial advisors start to exit out of the industry and we need for more financial planners coming in, I think this pickiness or this kind of prestige around the CII will start to dwindle away because they won't give a crap unless because they want they want somebody who's level four qualified because you can teach them the actual the job and what they need to do and how to be a great financial planner.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're doing the Kinder stuff, and you know, there's um know thyself academy, and there's lots of different things that are out there to make you a better financial planner.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think to get the level four qualification in my head, it's like, well, L IBF qualification, that's the route that I would go down.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not being biased because I haven't done any other any other routes, but that's how I would think.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would think go down that point because it would I could get qualified level four qualified within within 12 months, nice and easy.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, yes.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think as long, yeah, as long as you get it, it's great.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're coming out of school, if you come out of university, you've got those zoning styles from from that formal education.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you're learning something new in a similar format, it will be naturally easier, I would have thought, for you to then obtain and progress further.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was just the way I thought, you know, through that academy, I was told, actually, you've learned this much, you've come out of education, don't stop now, just keep going, otherwise you lose that momentum.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's a really that's a really good point, actually, because um, you know, when somebody's coming out of university, a graduate, thinking, what do I want to do with my life?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great time to start doing some further qualifications.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: As you say, you're completely used to to doing that anyway.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: You've just gone through it, unless you haven't burnt yourself out.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you would just probably just go, and that's what I've heard actually.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just far easier to jump, don't stop, basically.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: That'll just get some momentum, jump straight into your level four qualifications.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's really interesting, actually.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we need more graduate opportunities within the financial planning profession and you know, firms willing to take people on at graduate level, because you've got somebody ready to go.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I find that with my recruitment business.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: When I've taken somebody straight from university, they're in a different mindset.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: They are kind of they're so ready to go.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you get somebody who's like maybe a little bit older, I don't know, they've learned some bad habits or whatnot.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's far easier to mold somebody straight out of a university to how you want them to be or what you want them to do, and they're they've got a bit more energy, you know, sort of going at it like a bounding puppy.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you did the CII qualification as well as L IBF then, did you?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I I was um there's a way of transferring your points from the IFS at the time to the CII.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes, I mean it meant I needed to top up a few exams, and I've still done the 15 exams you need to, you know, become charter in the end with it with a PFS.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I thought, well, yeah, let's let's give it a go.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because in the end, my my goal was actually, yeah, to become chartered with the PFS.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to become charter and not certified with the other iterations.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that was actually a nice way of doing things.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you've you're and you're now chartered, you're a chartered financial planner then, yeah?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have been for a couple of years, fortunately.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: When you were going through your qualifications outside of open work then, and obviously the academy, when you went through and became chartered, were you um engaging with any external training companies or um online academies or any kind of support?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Anything you can recommend to get through your qualifications and get through to level, you know, to get through to charters?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Some of those exams were just self-study evenings and weekends type things whilst working at the same time.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then yeah, I think there are external trainers out there that are really good, and I was engaging with them.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's just it's like school.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I felt I you know, you sometimes you need to be told and shown what's good as well as doing your own work.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that collaboration, I think, is just it's an investment in yourself.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's almost the best investment you can ever make, just increasing your knowledge, particularly if you're younger or pay dividends over time.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So invest in yourself, pay, pay for the tuition.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the route then.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, open work academy, you got your level four qualification, you went back into the family business.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose you were obviously working within the family business whilst you were doing your qualifications as well.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so did you start as an administrator?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Did you learn the ropes, go into power planning, then become a financial planner?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the traditional route that you went down?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty much, yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: We were, you know, I just was there just to help out, just take some burden away.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and with mortgages to begin with, and things just progressed.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I just found my natural passion to be more investment and pension-based anyway.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it just made sense just to grow into that area of the business.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I had fortunately or autonomy and there was a solid business foundation there, so I could just help in the ways I thought were best to help on.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in addition to that, we just looked at growing the business, adding value, you know, instead of just working in the business, a little bit of working on the business at the same time.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it was it was natural, and I had lots of freedom and support, which was very fortunate.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, interesting.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, a lot of freedom and support then.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, did you find that because obviously working in a family business, obviously, I don't know what it's like to work for your parents.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: If I worked for my dad, it'd be a bloody nightmare.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I assume you didn't have them breathing down your neck every two seconds.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean no, no, no, I don't know.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: We we have our own offices, we have our own separate rooms, it's it's good.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a collaboration, it's teamwork because um, you know, we're all in it to support each other, and you know, a wins for me is gonna help them, and vice versa.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're going in the same strategy, we have similar ethos and progress.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're client-centric, clients first, and we're gonna do what we can to help them do whatever they want in terms of life and and living on their terms and support.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think the benefits are?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone's coming into a financial plan, they're interested in becoming a financial planner, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: They've got an end goal, they think that becoming a financial planner is the be all and end all, okay?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: But they don't have any experience of financial planning, you know, they've not done a job or anything like that.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Would you suggest?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's two routes, isn't there?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Would you suggest going down the IFA administrator power planner route, then become a financial planner?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or would you suggest get your level four qualification, like say through an academy or example, SJP or Quilter, and move into a financial planning practice and become a financial planner?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: What would you suggest is the best route?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: If they admin power planner financial advisor, or get your level four qualification and go in as a trainee financial planner.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it depends on you as an individual.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: If if you're um a little bit cautious about doing things, if you just want to dip your toes in first, definitely do that, do that, get a feel for things, then move up as you as your knowledge goes to power planning, and you gain more knowledge and a bit momentum.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if if and that was my route, because I I was more cautious, I just wanted to have solid foundations before I I thought I was ready to give anybody kind of advice on whatever level.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, particularly being younger um than the average advisor as well.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, well, why is a six-year-old going to listen to me about pension advice?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they want somebody with a bit of experience.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would I thought you know, just a misconception that I had.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I think very differently to that now.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, because I, you know, the reason why I got in contact with you, I saw a I saw a post that you that you that you did in one of the publications talking about how to position yourself as a younger advisor, you know, because obviously you just mentioned there, you were very cautious when you got into the profession.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: You felt being young was a disadvantage to you, which is a real difficulty.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: We need to get over that because we need more younger financial planners coming through, and we're gonna only get younger financial planners coming through, really, because there's gonna be so many older financial planners leaving the profession.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, what did you do to overcome that sort of internal dialogue that you were too young to deal with clients?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think I just had some uh fortunate experiences with some clients.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think from having that extra confidence with myself and knowing that actually my advice is actually no different or you know could be better than somebody else out there.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't necessarily chartered or had the kinder stuff at that time, but I just knew the advice that I was giving compared to the clients that were coming to me with with with problems at the time, was just different, I felt.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that just gave me some confidence.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, looking at the way things happened with George Osborne saying annuities are no longer compulsory, and people needing more touch points uh you know throughout their retirement to set them up, see them through, and to pass on a legacy, they're not gonna need an advisor that's the same age as them.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because that means through their retirement, they might have to find another advisor.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And with you know, if you have one problem, you speak to 10 different advisors, you know, you're gonna get 10 different answers, they're all gonna be right.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's just which one's the most right for you, you know, which advisor understands you the best.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, my I think the piece in that article was if you're there to help a client set up their retirement, see them through live a long and healthy 30, 40, you know, multi-decade retirement, and then pass on a legacy if they want to, they're gonna, I think, have that value add compounded over those number of decades from that one advisor.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why being a generation or two, maybe you know, then the typical retiree, I think is a great place to position yourself as a young qualified advisor.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: That is definitely a value add that that is there to be taken.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're going to be there with them through their journey, as an in as an because because I suppose if you're a financial planner and you're 55 years old, I'm not being ageist here, are we?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm a financial planner, I'm 55 years old and I'm talking to somebody about their pension, I'm talking about talking to them throughout their retirement, to potentially them working with their children for that transition of wealth.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing that my financial planner is perhaps younger, is still going to be employed throughout my retirement.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I suppose that's a positive, isn't it?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, um, for me as well, I don't see myself changing career or or stopping or changing brands or doing anything like that.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a continuation of the next 40-50 years.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I want to be working.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't feel like work as we talked about before.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, somebody in a different position is going to be different.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just the age thing, it's the it's the passion I think I have for what I do.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's enjoyment.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: It does, it's almost like a hobby.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, oh, I like that.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: So financial planning for you is almost like a hobby.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it has to pay a few bills here and there as well.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's a nice way, that is a nice way to look at it, isn't it?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, would you say, okay, let's say someone's thinking about becoming a financial planner?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: I like that what you said there, it's becomes a bit like a hobby.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the aim is because I'm my wife that makes jewelry.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's bloody brilliant at it.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: She sits there making her jewelry and she loves it.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's her hobby, but she's trying to turn it into a passion so she can make some money out of it.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So at the moment, she's taking over the whole house, there's jewelry everywhere.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm paying all the bills, praying and hoping that she's gonna make a load of money out of this.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: But as I sit back and I look at her and I watch her, it's amazing.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I love seeing somebody who's passionate about something create a business, and naturally it is happening.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, does that matter in financial planning?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a good job to do if you're not that passionate about it?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you're if you're passionate about any job, you're gonna do it really well.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and and if you're dealing with clients' life savings, I think you probably should be passionate to do a good job.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that yeah, I don't think you know you can't just sit there and say have this or have that.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: That just shows no passion.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: That I don't think that client will be well looked after.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Passion, having enthusiasm, wanting to go above and beyond, I feel is a great way of adding value.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: We all get into work, I think, and a big motivator of work, and not everybody says it these days, but I think a big motivator of going to work every day is earning some money, isn't it?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's an income.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Can you earn good money as a financial planner?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: And should you be thinking about that?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because a big kind of taboo, isn't it?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm not allowed to to to earn good money as a financial planner, and you know, it's not, it's not, it's not right to think that way.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, well, if I'm going to choose a profession, if I was coming straight out of university and I was choosing a profession, I want to be choosing a profession that I'm going to earn some bloody good money in.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And also, second to that, is have a really great lifestyle.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: It can you earn good money as a financial planner?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: What's the you know, what's the benefits to somebody joining the profession and becoming a financial planner?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you're self-employed and you have control of your own business, you can charge what you want, attract the clients you want.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, you can.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can be a financial planner, I assume, who can have six months on a yacht for the year on holiday, or you can spend the rest of the year working.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: You can build a practice as you want, like with any self-employed position or profession.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely, I'm I'm sure you can.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting because you've all you've sort of fallen into self-employment, haven't you?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't you you you you're obviously working in the family business, you've seen your parents being self-employed, so you've kind of fallen into that path of self-employment.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whereas some people go down the employed route, and I always hear, like, well, I'm gonna go employed first and I'm gonna build up some clients and then I'm gonna go self-employed, which technically you shouldn't be doing anyway, because it's a bit naughty.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: But people obviously do that, you know, they build the relationships, they go sick, I'm gonna go self-employed, and then hopefully those introducers, those relationships will follow.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but self-employment for you, that you hit the nail on the head, and it's about flexibility, isn't it?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Living your life the way that you want to do it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one of the real benefits of being a financial planner that I've seen is that yes, get some experience under your belt down the employed route.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: But the sooner you go self-employed, the sooner you're going to reap the benefits of living the lifestyle that you want to live.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not being told what to do, you're not having to be in an office at a specific time, you can live your life how you want to live it.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the beautiful thing about financial planning is is currently the charging structure, isn't it?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: That you can charge upfront, you can charge hourly rates, and you can charge a percentage of recurring, you know, recurring income, a percentage of the assets that you're managing.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a great way to structure how you do it and the value add that you give to clients, and that's what gives you that freedom and flexibility.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think that's the that's the way forward.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I in being employed, of course, you get a certainty, that's ability to build up and go forward.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think once you're a business owner, you can then be authentic.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you're asking clients and helping clients live the best life they can, that shouldn't stop you living the best life you can as well.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be a do you think there's a lack of young Asian men and women in financial planning?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think there should be more?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there should be more of every time.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um is there a you know, is there a do you think you know?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: I had Emmanuel Asuko on the podcast, you know, and he's very much ingrained in the black community, you know, and educating young black uh guys and girls around the importance of financial service, you know, financial planning and he financial financial coaching and everything.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he's also a real big advocate of trying to attract more um black people into financial planning.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is that something at all that you feel passionate about, or do you just think, well, it doesn't really matter?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think financial planning, financial services should be diverse anyway.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: What's your thoughts on that?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think it should be diverse, and I think it should be seen as a profession, not an industry.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: The level of qualification, the the level of ongoing, continuing professional development is almost like being a doctor or solicitor or barrister or counselor, or maybe even higher standard in terms of that.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely a profession that people should maybe aspire to become.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: It does require a good level of hard work.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a sales agent in a bank or anything like that, it is a profession as its own.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a professional body.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: I believe the personal finance society has the patron or the queen is a patron of the personal finance society, so it's not like we're here as fly by nights or anything like that.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is a profession in itself, and that should be.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I totally agree with you.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is a profession, it's up there, accountancies, solicitors, doctors, you know, everyone sort of thinks about that, don't they, as a specific profession, but never financial planning.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that education piece and that transition and getting people to understand that within universities, I think is is highly important.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got a real sort of vision of bringing financial planner life into universities.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm starting to speak to universities and doing sort of live podcasts, so bringing financial planners in to answer the questions of people that want to come in and find out a bit more about financial planning as a profession.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really great route and a really great way to doing it.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, there are lots of other uh, you know, you know, next gen planners.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: You I think you're part of next gen planners, aren't you?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or you've done some work with next gen planners before.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Has that helped you in your career and giving you an insight into the life of a planner?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm a member, um, and I think it's a great community.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: It is, I find very forward-thinking in terms of the approach and the development of the profession as well as individuals and support in terms of qualifications, as well as just running a business.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I think it's a fantastic um organization, and being a almost, yeah, if if I wasn't in a family business and I ended up doing what I'm doing, I'm I'm by myself.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you might have a network or something, but having being part of a community, having people that are maybe similar in terms of you and starting up similar ages, similar profiles, having that network just to share ideas with is I think very powerful and just allows you a bit of camaraderie if needed.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I hear, especially around the self-employed um financial planners.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: It can be quite a lonely job, can't it?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not bouncing off of other financial planners within the business.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to go out and and and and and network with other financial planners.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: And historically, financial planners weren't keen to do that, they didn't really want to network with other financial planners because there was that fear of like you're gonna take my clients or steal my ideas.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So there was that kind of quite an insular type type type role.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And things like next gen planners, um, bringing bringing a community of financial planners together to learn off of each other, I think that's the way forward.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's certainly what I've heard a great way for people to learn new skills.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think bringing that mental approach into something like that as well, connecting, you know, experienced planners with inexperienced planners and building a mental relationship as well, I think is really, really useful, especially if one mentor could be an absolutely brilliant marketer or personal brander or someone like Catherine Morgan, who's fantastic at coaching, you know, teaching financial planners how to be coaches, you know, someone might be brilliant at lead generation on LinkedIn, you know?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think having those people in those specific areas and skill sets is a really good idea.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that I want to build for financial planner life as a community.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know that next gen next gen are obviously doing it um anyway.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think the more out there, more out there, the better.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: But um, do you find that next gen, do they bring people in through do people join next gen as say somebody who's interested in the profession or perhaps at the very early stages, or is it tends to be experienced financial planners or power planners?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's definitely a spectrum of of even just administrators, power planners, as well as advisors and experienced business owners.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that what makes that's what makes it so diverse and and so knowledgeable because there's people in different fields from across the nation.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, that different experience helps.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you're uh speaking to clients and you're hearing lots of no's, that can probably be quite tough to take.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And just having that kind of sounding word of, yeah, other people are experiencing it, it's okay.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: How about trying this?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, share your problem, we can help you maybe.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and that support, I think, takes away some of the pain of rejection.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let me talk about rejection then in financial planning.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's one of the biggest challenges that you've come up against being a financial planner, and how did you get over it?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I think just trying to get um some good quality clients and and and then at almost at the point of having some good clients where you can almost say no to other people, you know, you can only work with the the right type of client.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the way I do things is I want to try and help everybody, you know.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: There are clients that are just starting their savings and investments, and I can definitely try and help them as much as I can.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's also why I've I've decided to go with the my personal finance skills and deliver educational workshops to to teenagers and young people.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's a piece of pro bono work.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're going to schools, colleges, and I've even done charities just to help people increase their financial right.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when you mentioned there about um the PFS, then going into the PFS and helping out from a financial education perspective.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Just tell me a little bit more about that then.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is that workshops or what is it you're doing?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a series of one-hour workshops or whatever fits in a school period.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a set curriculum with slides and um handouts for for the individuals to complete.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's there, it's a support, it just needs qualified people to go into schools and and put a face to it.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: With with lockdown, that has evolved to be online training.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that means you can access it anytime.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think helping helping increase the education in schools before potential people get their first job, before people People learn or you know make mistakes.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, learning from mistakes is very important, but just having a bit of extra foresight, a little bit of extra information might help somebody avoid some bad debt, or just be able to make that one smart decision that could really propel them into having a strong financial foundation for their future.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you're finding that's a very important thing, then, is financial education, helping people a younger age understand what potentially might happen with their finances, help them to avoid that.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we're seeing a kind of rise, aren't we, in these financial coaches online.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had Peter Komalafi on last week, who is a financial coach, and his job is to really educate people around some of the platforms that are out there for stocks and shares and investing, and you know, hoping that people aren't making the wrong decisions and losing a lot of money because some white boy on Instagram is talking about how much money they've made trading Forex.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a lot of this instant gratification out there when it comes to financial uh services and financial gain.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody wants to become rich quick.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um probably people aren't thinking enough about the risk factor involved in investing money or the fact that they want to buy a brand new car because their mates just bought a BMW, yet they cannot afford it, and what impact that's going to have on their future.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you think that comes down to financial planners as well?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I guess you guys, uh financial planning is a profession.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: You you you want people who have got money to invest, you want people that can afford financial planning.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: People in university, maybe early on in their careers, might not have as much money to invest where you can make larger sums of recurring income or whatever.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think it's the responsibility of a financial planner to educate those people, or do you just think somebody else should do it?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think you should add value to your community.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I think definitely.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and back to the basis, never mind investing.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: When you get your first paste it, what does this bit mean?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that this is what the uh the workshops are there for.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just go to the basis is really understand why I am paying tax or what is national insurance for.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, here's auto enrollment pension.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're two words I've never heard before.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: What how's it going to help me?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and what should I do about it?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: The very, very basics will then allow you to then progress to the next level.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, that might take a decade or two for somebody to get their first job and then have some money after education to then do something with, but it might help them get there quicker.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a there's a moral obligation to help people, right?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have to do good in our society and community, and this is a great way because the structure's already there to do that.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, it's about giving back.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you understand something, if you can help somebody avoid some financial difficulty or problems or ease some financial stress, then you feel obliged, and part of do your duty is to give back to the community in that way, and um, you're doing that through PFS workshops by the sounds of it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, prevention is definitely better than cure.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think this is a you know, it's still better than nothing, right?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Progress is progress, and this is a great way to start.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Have you also been putting any content out there on LinkedIn or Instagram or Facebook?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Are you engaging in that way of communication or are you sort of not too are you camera shy?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: You don't seem camera shy to me, but thanks, Sam.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I know I'm trying on trying.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you'll see me on LinkedIn quite a lot.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you might see me on Twitter a little bit as well.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, definitely the future is just to keep sharing ideas, uh, sharing a bit of me, sharing a bit of my thoughts, and you know, make some of that might pass off as great information.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not definitely not advice because there's no personal circumstance involved, but yeah.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's a bit of a barrier as to why some financial planners don't put content out there because they're a bit nervous about what they can and can't say, because it could be deemed as financial advice?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we as long as you understand the remits and and you you're within that, it's fine.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that that kind of level of confidence again to try something new and and to explore that, definitely.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you said you know, you're mentioning before about in procrastinating, spending a lot of time on personal development, doing your qualifications, and then you kind of had that realization that really I should start to try and win some new, you know, win some clients, get out there and work on uh my prospecting, I suppose, my my marketing, my networking.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: So what things have you recently learned or over your career that's helped you get in front of more clients and win new business?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I'm the faction still or the perfect person to ask.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think the main the main thing that I have is if I do good by this client, they will hopefully share the good word.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Building that solid reputation of actually, yeah, this person's here to help me.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that they've done good by me.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm more than happy to talk about them to my friends.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be that person at the forefront.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so just having that confidence to just be yourself allows that that natural flow of of positive vibes and energy to go through.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that you know referrals is a big part of your business by you know by being that sort of natural and relaxed financial planner?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel that people just naturally refer business to you or would you have to fight for it?
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that yeah, there's a bit of momentum that happens once you gain a few clients and and they refer you to other people.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: That that that's you know, it's that's been really, really helpful.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that being said, clients still interview other people, other advisors before coming through to me.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then yeah, it's down to winning them.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: But as always, it's an initial conversation, there's no expense.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: And when it was face to face, the hardest decision a client would have to make in that meeting would be whether they would want a tea or a coffee.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, there's no pressure.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, what do you do to keep yourself focused then?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, it's a bit like um any any type of job where you've got to kind of step outside your comfort zone, like pick up the telephone, for instance, or make prospecting calls or emails or anything like that.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: What do you what do you do to keep yourself focused around that?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's very easy to like put it to one side, isn't it?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think being passionate helps having a focus on what I want from life, what I want to be able to provide for for me and my family going forward.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the kind of business that I want to help support my my colleagues and future colleagues, and then also to support my clients.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's having that passion, having that focus.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, part of it comes down to a business plan and progress and future and just being ambitious, um, and then just just sticking to the plan, right?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, no, totally, absolutely.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: Having a nice having a nice business plan, a nice plan of where you want your yourself to go.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what about expectations?
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do you manage your expectations?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can be setting my expectations really high sometimes.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: And as someone I know mentions to me, Sam, you always, you know, if you were a high jumper, you'd always be setting it too high and you'd always be failing and you'd always be pissed off at yourself for for not hitting that high jump.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you just lower your your expectations a little bit?
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's a good bit of advice within financial planning is to not kind of think straight away, oh, I've got the level four qualification, I'm a financial planner, this is what I'm gonna do, this is what I'm gonna earn.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think expectations sometimes need to be grinded within financial planning?
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: What should you expect for the first three to five years, for example?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I think you should be ambitious because even if you get halfway to that ambitious goal, that's maybe more than you would have done if you set a less ambitious goal.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: As long as you're building with solid foundation and you're you're ethical and you're client-centric, being ambitious.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's nothing wrong with that.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: You should I think you probably should try to be ambitious um and and go through because failing will still be progress.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, by by missing the mark, at least you've tried, you've learned something, there's still an experience to take.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas if you don't try, you know, you're not going to get anywhere.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you recently were in the PFS Awards, weren't you?
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: You I think you were shortlisted in the PFS Awards.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: How did that go?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: And which and which award was it that you were put forward for?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I was put forward for the inaugural education champion of the year 2020.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was shortlisted in the final three, and I was uh highly commended.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't win.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's the national awards, um, it's the first one.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: And this is on the base of giving back into those schools and and and speaking with young people to help it increase their financial education.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was great to be part of it, but that's that's not the aim.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Winning awards, being nominated, being shortlisted was is a bonus, but the main aim is is to give back.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that yeah, that those yeah, nice things to happen, but not the aim.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: So your advice to any financial planners, really, or anybody getting into the profession is to also give back to those that probably do need a little bit of financial education.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Don't think too much about yourself.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, look at the community around you.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Where can you add value in um other people's financial well-being, not just your clients that are paying you fees?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think if you just do good Germany in life, good things will eventually happen to you.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that as well.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm a big firm believer in that.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Put put good things out, think positively.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: I get up every morning and I love to just hit a bit of gratitude.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: So as soon as my eyes open, I've trained myself now to just run through.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: I call it a gratitude prayer, you know.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes the word prayer sounds a bit like godly, doesn't it?
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, but I do, I I sit there and I and I go through it and I and I think positively about everything that I've actually got.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think positively about the people around me and I wish them well.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I've opened my eyes, I'm I'm in it.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've almost trained myself to go straight in it.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the positive effect that that's had on my life in changing my views and changing, like removing fear from my life because I'm so happy with what I have and I and I care about other people, that it definitely sets you up for the day positively.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the more, and it's not like, oh, just think positively.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: That does work, but I think it's about being grateful and giving back.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're absolutely right there.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: The more that you can give back, the more that comes.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Even just doing things like a podcast, where you know, I'm being told all the time the reason why I did it is because we've got people that come to us that don't have a great understanding of what a financial planner does.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: And just putting this out there and getting you guys to share your experiences, it helps people.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: And each day I get three or four or five messages from people saying, like, Sam, great, thanks for that.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I learned this or I learned that, and thanks for putting it out there.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a good thing.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: And from doing that, I'm learning a lot.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: From doing that, I get more clients, from doing that, everybody wins.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um giving back is definitely a big part of feeling happy, making yourself feel happy, purposeful, um, and it adds to your career progression and things like that as well, I think.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, yeah.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, man.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: All right, great.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, thank you so much for your time today.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, good insight and a good understanding of your little career path and how you got into it and some of the things that you've been doing.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I really, really appreciate that.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um thank you for your time.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers, Chris.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Sam.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was nice to be on.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.