Latest / Book Flood Podcast / Encore Summer 2026: Nikki Grimes (E64)
Transcript
- Thomas Nixon: Welcome to the Book Flood podcast. I am your host, Tom Nixon. My guest this week is Nikki Grimes. New York Times bestselling author, Nikki Grimes was inducted into the Black Authors Hall of Fame in 2023. Her honors include the CSK Virginia Hamilton Lifetime Achievement Award, the ALAN Award for significant contributions to young adult literature, the Children's Literature Legacy Medal, and the NCTE Award for Excellence in Poetry for Children. Author of the Coretta Scott King Award winner Bronx Masquerade and five Coretta Scott King Author Honors, she won the Prince Honor and Cybert Honor for her memoir Ordinary Hazards. Her latest titles include Garvey's Choice, the graphic novel, a school library journal, 2023 best book. Lullaby for the King, one of Book Riot's 25 best Christmas books of all time, Glory in the Margins, Sunday Poems, and A Walk in the Woods, recipient of eight starred reviews and 11 best book listings for 2023, including the New York Times, NPR, and Smithsonian Magazine. Ms. Grimes lives in Corona, California. Welcome, Nikki. Nikki Grimes: Thank you. So glad to be here. Thomas Nixon: I am so glad for you to be here too. Very exciting. Why don't we start with you giving us a little bit of your career trajectory. How did you get to here? What path did it take? Nikki Grimes: Oh, that was a long one. I started, well, I started writing when I was six, but I knew by the time I was in high school that I wanted to pursue this as a profession. And so I started off by publishing my work in literary journals and magazines and attending workshops where I got to meet wonderful people like Nika Giovanni, Tony Campambara. Sonia Sanchez and Nikki especially kind of took me under her wing. And I was out doing poetry readings on the college circuit and that sort of thing. And then I went to college and got a bit distracted. know, college kind of kept me busy, but I continued to write. And then I... went off to Tanzania. I minored in African languages. And my Swahili teacher, who I did some translation for, really encouraged me to actually go to Tanzania and do some work there, which I did for a year. Then I came back and got serious about pursuing my career. I worked on my first two children's books. And... didn't plan a third because I really didn't plan a first because I was planning a career in adult literature and God laughed. You had other ideas, clearly. but I did those two books and then I went to Sweden where I was for six years and freelanced a lot while I was there for various magazines that I'd written for before this magazine. I did most of the work for Essence. But I got to a place where after being there for several years, I needed to decide either to get into the Swedish literary market or come home. Because people were not really comfortable working with somebody so far away. Keep in mind, there was no internet, there was no home computers. There weren't even faxes unless you went into like a big bank. So none of those things existed at the time. and it made it a little dicey to work that far away. Well, I decided I'd rather be a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a small one. And I thought if I succeeded at the level I hoped I would back at home, my books would eventually get to Sweden, but not in the reverse. And that was a good decision. And indeed, my books can now be found there. So. That was a good decision. So I came home, moved to California. And for years, I thought I was going to do the traditional marriage of teaching and writing. But when I got here, I found I was going to have to get a special permit. And I needed to go back to school, get a graduate degree, and all that. And I started doing that. And then I realized, wait, I'm just on a paper chase. And this isn't what I want to do. What I want to do is write books. And the time I'm spending pursuing this paper, I could be actually writing books. So after a year, I left to work just writing full time and just wrote like a crazy person, book after book after book, until things started to break, break open for me. After that point, I was pretty much It was just a straight trajectory after that, just one book after another. It took a while to sort of get a momentum going. I was, you know, I did the temporary work and freelancing continued with that. And I'm a textile artist. I was doing a lot of fine art fairs, you know, doing the New York hustle thing of cobbling together. and income by doing these different things. And then year after year as things got more, started to move in my career, the books were coming out and I started to be able to do school visits and was being invited to do speaking engagements and that kind of thing. I was able to get down to just writing full time. And so I've been doing that ever since. Thomas Nixon: You have to achieve the dream for so many, so many writers. I don't think people realize how hard that is to make a living as a writer. Nikki Grimes: very, very hard. Yeah. Yeah. You need to be nimble and you need to know how to pivot and diversify. Thomas Nixon: Right. Nikki Grimes: You know? Thomas Nixon: So your writing has won so many awards, so many awards. Coretta Scott King, Cybert, you've been a New York Times bestselling author. What is it like to win one of those awards? What has that been like for you? Nikki Grimes: Well, the first one is always the most exciting. For me, I was really excited when I got a Coretta Scott King honor for Jasmine's notebook. That was the first big one. And I was especially excited because I started to think I was never going to. And then that happened. I'm like, OK, so maybe there is going to be something. The single most exciting after that would have to be the Children's Literary Legacy Award. because that honors your entire body of work up to that period in time. And it's really special to have all of your work rather than a single title honored. And it says, in effect, that no matter what happens going forward, you have made your mark. And you've made your mark doing the work that you have given your whole heart to. It's hard to get better than that. And there have been wonderful words since then that are definitely meaningful. But that was kind of a landmark for sure. Yeah. Thomas Nixon: So you talked about living in Tanzania. The other place that you lived, you talked a little bit about was Sweden. Tanzania, I understand the languages. How did you end up in Sweden? Was this a dark, dark thrown at a map or something or? Nikki Grimes: No, no, it's funny. When I was in Sweden, I did a radio show once in which I talked with a group of black women expatriates living there. And one of the questions I asked was what had brought them to Sweden? And the answers were all something like, well, I met Lasse, I met Buse, I met Erik, you know, and they were all the same. It was a guy. Well, the difference with me is the guy. was someone I met in Tanzania, an artist who ended up with the grants of the Swedish Royal Academy of Fine Art to work for several years. And that took him to Sweden. And then he invited me to come. He was willing to visit me in the States when I went back home, but I was like, no, no, no, I'll come there because I love to travel. And kind of any excuse will do. And I went just to kind of explore. Relationship didn't work out, but I stayed for six years on my own. Yeah. Thomas Nixon: be something appealing there. I just visited Finland last year and it's really interesting, fascinating part of the world to visit. It's very different. Nikki Grimes: I just... Very different indeed, which is of course what I like about travel in general is finding something different. And I just fell in love with Sweden. Yeah, I'm still in love with it. Thomas Nixon: Mm. Do you get back there? Nikki Grimes: I've only been back once. I'm hoping to get back again. But I have friends that I have maintained in all those years. So yeah. Thomas Nixon: Nice. So you hosted programs both in Sweden and in the US. Was that part of your career plan or that just sort of popped up as an opportunity? Nikki Grimes: that just happened and opportunities present themselves and I jump in with both feet. So yeah. Thomas Nixon: Next. Definitely makes sense. What is your writing process like? Nikki Grimes: There's no single answer to that question because I write across genres, age groups, and subject matter. But in general, I do whatever research is necessary for the book I want to write. I develop character sketches with backstories and sample dialogue for reference for the main characters of the story in question. I determine the back ends of the story, the time frame in which the story will take place. Now those bookends may change, but it helps to have them in place because it gives me a solid framework in which to write and even meander, but still stay in focus on where I want the story to go. Then once that's done, I do a nuts and bolts outline for the first 10 pieces. And I put outline in quotes because I'm talking about two or three sentences that describe basically what's going to happen in that chapter or in that poem that I'm working on. And one to 10 because number one is introduction, number 10 is resolution, and somewhere in between is going to be the story arc. And so I nailed down what those are going to be. just writing in plain prose. And until I have that story nailed down, I don't really get into the intricacies of poetry. So prose is what I focus on, because the most important thing to me, no matter what the final form of it's going to be, is story. It's all about the narrative, which is why I'm a narrative poet as opposed to a lyrical one. I certainly write lyrically, but I'm always focused on the story. And once I have a rough draft of those 10 pieces, I sketch out transitions between each of them. And so I'm developing the story sort of from the inside. And it gets bigger and bigger and bigger until it's done. Thomas Nixon: What a great way to describe it. Nikki Grimes: Yeah, and I know it's done when I'm making changes that are no longer improvements. Thomas Nixon: Hmm. Do you tend to publish with the same publisher or? Nikki Grimes: No, because I'm too prolific. I'd be waiting around forever for books to come out if I did that. Also, I determined early on that I would be in a better negotiating position if I had more than one publisher so that they know they're not the only game in town. It just puts me in a stronger position to negotiate contracts. But also, I just, I am so productive. There have been years, think the most I had out in one year, I think, was six books. Thomas Nixon: Uhhhh Mmm. Nikki Grimes: And it never would have happened with a single publisher. The most they would have done in a single year is two. And so I would have had four books just waiting for them to be published. And it works for me because I'm working in different genres and different age groups. So I'm not competing with myself by having that many books out because they're for different markets. Thomas Nixon: Yeah. Mm. Nikki Grimes: they're going to different readers. So I'm not competing with myself there. Thomas Nixon: I greatly appreciate that you mentioned the negotiations that go on. I don't think people realize that it's a business like any other business. Nikki Grimes: It's absolutely a business and it's important to understand that. And yeah, for artists it's a dirty word, but it's word that needs to be dealt with and understood and broken down. yeah, in fact, the last couple of years I've been working on a specifically about the Chills with Book business, which is something that's in production right now. Because it's something that Too many artists suffer a lack of understanding and just don't do as well as they could do. Sometimes people get burned out unnecessarily because they don't understand simple things like being able to renegotiate a deadline as opposed to finding yourself buried under a series of deadlines and thinking that you have to do them. Like, well, did you ask? Thomas Nixon: Mmm. Nikki Grimes: to change it and I can't tell you how many times a writer said to me, I can do that? About that and about many other things in the business. I'm like, oh, this is crazy. And for years I kept waiting for someone to teach. I thought, well, an MFA program surely they're gonna start teaching business. The art schools, they're gonna start teaching this stuff, right? Not happening. You would think. Thomas Nixon: Hmm You would think, Nikki Grimes: They're graduating people out into the world who know all about craft and nothing about business. Thomas Nixon: such a good way to put it. Nikki Grimes: Yeah. Yeah. So. Thomas Nixon: I've talked with a number of authors over the past year where their work has been directly affected by some of the book banning that has been going on. Has that affected your work at all? Nikki Grimes: ⁓ I've been banned. A lot of my work is being banned. Book banning affects everyone's work. There is amount of hurt and anger and grief to navigate. There's an investment of time spent in fighting the bans. And yeah, they're not fun. But the banning has not affected what I write, nor will it. I just keep going. But it's a balancing act for sure. So I speak out about it and support librarians as much as I can and teachers. And I do a number of things connected with that, working with PEN America. Yeah. There's no getting away from it for sure. Thomas Nixon: When is your next book coming out? Nikki Grimes: In April, I cop up quiet. I have the first one Thomas Nixon: ⁓ I'm so excited. Nikki Grimes: And it's gorgeous, illustrated by Cathy Ann Johnson, who just is magical. I love the, this is Grandma. She's very hip, Grandma. Very colorful, I love her. And it's all about that special quality of quiet in nature that's really not quiet at all. You know, that has all these sounds. And so. Thomas Nixon: Nice. ⁓ I love that. Nikki Grimes: This girl is at the home of her grandmother and she's out in the garden and her grandmother challenges her to collect the sounds she finds in the garden in a cup, an imaginary cup. And so the child walks around the garden collecting the bees buzz, the sound of the wind in the trees and all the kinds of sounds you would find outside. Thomas Nixon: ⁓ so nice. Look forward to it. What are you working on now? Nikki Grimes: Yeah. Ooh, as usual, I'm working on a variety of projects, always juggling. I'm fine tuning a new Diamond Daniel chapter book, focusing on a deep-seated fear that Diamond wrestles with and how she faces and eventually comes to conquer that fear. It's something I have to handle delicately though, because I don't want to trigger my readers. dealing with a fearful topic. And I'm very much aware of that because story has the power to trigger. And so you need to be very, careful and definitely navigate that kind of subject matter. I'm beginning work on an anthology, which is something new for me. And I'm working on a picture book that's a fantastical answer to the question, where do ideas come from? Thomas Nixon: Mmm. Nikki Grimes: something authors are asked all the time. So I'm having some fun with that. Thomas Nixon: You have discussed the challenges of your childhood in a number of places. How did those challenges affect the way you write, affect the books that you produce? Nikki Grimes: Well, those challenges didn't affect my writing. Those challenges are the reason my writing exists. Because I started writing out of a desperate need to excise the poisonous effects of the traumas that I was dealing with. Writing gave me a healthy place to put my rage, my confusion, my depression, all the dark and difficult emotions. those challenges left in their wake. Actually, there are two things that saved my life. One, my faith in God and my writing, which actually is really kind of the same thing because when I think about it, the gift of writing came from Him. So they're definitely connected. Yeah. Thomas Nixon: Amen. Do you do many presentations at schools, at libraries? Nikki Grimes: I used to do more, I've cut back on school visits. I still occasionally speak to young readers virtually or during the library visit or at a book festival presentation. Otherwise, though, I'm not doing school visits. I'm always happy to meet my readers, but my speaking and travel schedules have become increasingly arduous over the years. At my age, I no longer bounce back as quickly as I used to. So I decided, let's pull back. And I also just wanted to have more time to focus on writing. People think when you write full time that you just have all this time to only write, but that's just a small part of what it takes to do this as a living. There's a lot of self-promotion and there's the speaking engagements and know, webinars and all the things, all the presentation work you have to create, you know, due to four keynotes and four school visits and, you know, residencies and all this kind of stuff. yeah, you find the time really printed away. You're like, where's my time? So you get really precious about your actual writing time. Yeah. Thomas Nixon: Mm. Is there a book or a series of books from your childhood that still resonates with you? Nikki Grimes: A tree grows in Brooklyn. Thomas Nixon: Mm. Nikki Grimes: It was the first book I can remember in which I saw a reflection of my own life. Francie Nolan, the main character, lives in Brooklyn, where I lived for many years. She wrestled with poverty, a broken family with a parent who is an alcoholic, check, check, check. So that was the first time I saw any part of myself in the pages of the books that I read. It taught me that I was not all alone in the world. And I wanted to give that experience to other readers, other children like me. It taught me that I could survive or sometimes felt unsurvivable. And that experience shored up my decision to be an author. Thomas Nixon: What are you reading now? Nikki Grimes: I've just started it, but Skin and Bones by Renee Watson. And she's always a good read. She's always a good read, so yeah. Thomas Nixon: I've heard it's Well, I want to thank you, Nikki, for coming on the Book Flood podcast. I greatly appreciate it. For our listeners and watchers out there, please like, subscribe, and share. And again, thank you, Nikki. Nikki Grimes: Thank you.