Latest / Imagine The Good / The Power of Becoming Your Own Greatest Ally

Transcript

The Power of Becoming Your Own Greatest Ally · Imagine The Good

0:00
SPEAKER_00: You're tasting your next goal, but you can't remember the last time you felt truly present or fulfilled.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: You're surrounded by people yet, somehow still feel alone.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: You've built the success you were told to go after, but you quietly wonder, is this all there really is?
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, then this podcast is for you.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Imagine the good.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: So here are your hosts, Jason and Rob.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Hi, welcome to Imagine the Good Podcast.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: This is our first episode.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: You're excited.
0:38
SPEAKER_04: I'm excited.
0:39
SPEAKER_04: I'm excited.
0:40
SPEAKER_04: I'm curious.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: And we're welcoming you into a conversation that we want to have about what is possible within ourselves, within between each other, and within our broader communities to enrich our lives and elevate and celebrate life together.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm Robin Barr.
1:04
SPEAKER_04: And I'm Jason Dorland.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: And we both have a passion for happy, healthy communities that are thriving in harmony with life.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: And we're excited to dive into topics that relate to living well and living well together.
1:22
SPEAKER_04: Great.
1:23
SPEAKER_04: Do you want to maybe just give a little bit of background as to why the name, where it came from, why I love it so much?
1:35
SPEAKER_02: Imagine the good for me speaks to those moments where I feel a sense of excitement and inspiration when I hear about somebody doing something that creates new possibilities for what we can be together.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: When we see beauty and goodness in the world, it feeds our hope and inspiration.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: And I'm excited to explore in this space where that's happening with who and how it can spark new possibilities for what we can be together.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: Just a small recent example, hearing the story of a community in Germany that took all of their public garden space and created community gardens where people were free to come and help themselves to fruits and veggies.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: They sold the extra to tourists.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: But what an inspiration for how to share resources and help people live well together.
2:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
2:39
SPEAKER_04: And when we made the decision that, hey, let's give this podcast thing a try, and we rattled through, you know, a few dozen titles or names.
2:51
SPEAKER_04: And when you presented with Imagine the Good, I knew in that moment that not only did it resonate well, but I just thought, oh, that is it.
3:00
SPEAKER_04: Because, as I like to say, I think it's a podcast for our times, because we are in such a state in terms of what's going on on the planet, a lot of what people would consider not good.
3:13
SPEAKER_04: And so for me, what comes up is the notion of the one headlight phenomenon, which researchers refer to as the frequency illusion.
3:22
SPEAKER_04: So meaning that when we, well, I don't know that it happens much anymore with LED headlights, but back in the day when your headlight was out, it seemed like everybody's headlight was out.
3:34
SPEAKER_04: And it wasn't that everyone's headlight was out, it was that you were aware that yours was out, and so you were sort of hyper-fixated on that and therefore aware or noticing other people's headlights.
3:46
SPEAKER_04: And I think it's a really interesting analogy to put upon ourselves that when we go looking for headlights that are out, we find them.
3:59
SPEAKER_04: And so then perhaps the opposite of that can be true.
4:03
SPEAKER_04: When we want to find headlights that are intact and functioning, doing their job and shining a light, there's a good one for you, in all the dark places, then we're gonna find more of those.
4:15
SPEAKER_04: And that's why I just think the notion of imagine the good, it's a really powerful way to come back to the idea that in the midst of all this chaos and crap, we have a choice.
4:29
SPEAKER_04: And we can choose to look for the good, imagine the good, and then the subtitle, Creating What's Possible, right?
4:36
SPEAKER_04: And I just think it there's an empowerment in that, which I just, like I said, when you mentioned this, I just said that's that's the one.
4:43
SPEAKER_04: So anyway, so what we want to do is, I mean, we're high performance coaches for sure, and so we're gonna talk about high performance and involve strategies and research and science around ways to improve performance and improve the way you're living, all that sort of stuff.
5:01
SPEAKER_04: But also to really try and shine a light on some of the inspiring work that's being done around the world and eventually get to a place where we can bring people on the show and who are doing that kind of work that is about really creating what's possible.
5:15
SPEAKER_04: So that's the way I see it, anyhow.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: And the title also speaks to an experience I had relative to what you're talking about, the headlight missing versus the lights are on.
5:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, it reminds me of what we shine the light on grows and the reticular activation system, what we what is important to us gets amplified in our environment.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: And a moment that relates to imagine the good.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: For me, in my second Olympics in Atlanta, in the closing ceremonies, I was feeling a bit despairing about the gap between the Olympic ideals and the on the ground experience and how some of the more materialistic elements and the business behind the Olympics felt like it was overshadowing the ideals.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: And during the closing ceremony, Stevie Wonder came on stage and he sang Imagine.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: And I feel emotional.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: Speaking about it, it wow it I could feel my heart shift from despair to possibility of what we could be to one another.
6:25
SPEAKER_04: Wow, cool.
6:26
SPEAKER_04: So 1996, 30 years later, and it's still got some punch.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: And so that element of there are times where we despair deeply about the state of the world and our own personal grief.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: And yet again, I return again and again to the beauty and goodness of life that I connect with every day and what sustains me and makes me grateful to be alive.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: And so rooting ourselves in that beauty and goodness of what can be, while we take also an honest look at what is, because if you don't know where you are, it's hard to move to where you want to be.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: And so including the elements of things that are difficult, how we can be with those in ways that expand the possibilities of where we go from here.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited to have rich dialogue with my best friend and invite others into this space to be fortified in connecting to the goodness of life and where we can go with that.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:31
SPEAKER_04: Very cool.
7:32
SPEAKER_04: And I would concur.
7:33
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it is, you know, I what I find interesting about this is that it's a husband and wife, you know, best friends.
7:41
SPEAKER_04: Our journey has been insanely bizarre but awesome.
7:47
SPEAKER_04: And for me, it's just time that it's protected time where we get to really have some conversations.
7:53
SPEAKER_04: And I'm all in.
7:55
SPEAKER_04: So thank you for the idea to put this thing on and let's get out of it.
7:58
SPEAKER_04: I, you know, as much as we want this show to be about the listeners, I think perhaps them understanding a little bit about who we are, but not making it about who we are.
8:08
SPEAKER_04: And so we agreed ahead of time that we would introduce each other with two things, naming two things that will contribute to the listener's experience.
8:19
SPEAKER_04: So, what is it about me?
8:21
SPEAKER_04: What is it about you that either one of us believes is going to bring something to the table?
8:26
SPEAKER_04: So you can go first.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: One of the things that I deeply respect and appreciate about you, as you remember, we weren't exactly parallel lined up when we first met.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: Not exactly.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Our lives had a bit of a different curve.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: And yet your willingness to grow, your openness, your curiosity, and your persistence to grow as a human being.
8:52
SPEAKER_04: Grow would be a nice word.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: Was impressive.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: And your passion about getting better together, despite how the exterior didn't always show it, even at the beginning, the deep commitness to kindness, it was always there and is there, and I am the beneficiary every day of your kind and thoughtful ways.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: So that combination of willingness to grow, your curiosity, your persistence, and your passion about getting better together.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: You're a real team player.
9:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:29
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
9:31
SPEAKER_04: Want me to do one, or you want to do two?
9:33
SPEAKER_02: That was two.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
9:35
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
9:36
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
9:37
SPEAKER_04: So I'll give you my two.
9:38
SPEAKER_04: My first one is, and it sort of reflects or builds off what you just said, in terms of my education process, in terms of where the growth began.
9:48
SPEAKER_04: When we first met, we were eons apart in terms of not just our approach to high performance sport, but I mean, that would translate our approach to sport, to life, right?
10:00
SPEAKER_04: So who you were as an athlete.
10:03
SPEAKER_04: And what I found so interesting at the time, and still, is that you were the most non-jock jock that I'd ever met and have ever met in terms of, you know, 17 years on the world stage competing for Canada, and yet you don't personify what I would consider traditional jockish values or personas.
10:25
SPEAKER_04: And that became loud and clear to me when we had the conversation about our competitors.
10:33
SPEAKER_04: And you gave me the analogy of together we fly using the geese.
10:41
SPEAKER_04: The reason geese can fly further and faster is because they fly in a V formation, they work together, it's a choice.
10:48
SPEAKER_04: It's the quintessential notion of synergy, right?
10:52
SPEAKER_04: Combined effort.
10:54
SPEAKER_04: And I remember when you said that's how you saw racing, that you raced with your competitors and you created a combined effort.
11:02
SPEAKER_04: And that combined effort created a faster race.
11:06
SPEAKER_04: And sure, there's still going to be a first, second, third, fourth, what have you.
11:09
SPEAKER_04: But as you used to say, if we all run faster, we all run faster.
11:14
SPEAKER_04: And I remember the first time you said that, and I so wanted to win that argument, and I couldn't because there was no pushback, right?
11:22
SPEAKER_04: It just made absolute perfect sense.
11:25
SPEAKER_04: And it was part of the allure, if you will, to try and figure out this very complex individual who I just met.
11:33
SPEAKER_04: And I thought, wow, there's, you know, she doesn't embrace my approach to competition, which is go out there and kill, do anything that you can do to win, winning at all costs, yada, yada, yada.
11:45
SPEAKER_04: And you were so not that.
11:47
SPEAKER_04: And so that was intriguing.
11:49
SPEAKER_04: And so what I see is how that relates to the listener is that it wasn't just about your 3,000, 5,000, whatever meter races on the world stage.
11:59
SPEAKER_04: You weren't robbing the runner and then robbing the person.
12:02
SPEAKER_04: And that translated into life.
12:04
SPEAKER_04: It's translated into how you've been my partner, how you've been the mother of our daughter, our dogs, all of it.
12:11
SPEAKER_04: It's just who you are.
12:12
SPEAKER_04: And I think that brings a fascinating non-traditional approach or perspective to the things we're going to talk about, where it isn't a me against them, us against them.
12:25
SPEAKER_04: It's always a we.
12:26
SPEAKER_04: And as much as it drove me nuts at the beginning because it challenged my paradigm, I've totally come to it now, and I understand it.
12:34
SPEAKER_04: And now also I've been the benefactor, and I use it in our coaching.
12:39
SPEAKER_04: So I totally get that.
12:40
SPEAKER_04: So that's certainly one of them.
12:41
SPEAKER_04: And then the other one, and you sort of went there already with some of those big science-y words you used.
12:46
SPEAKER_04: I can't remember which word it was, but you read more and listen to more podcasts and garner more information than anybody I know.
12:54
SPEAKER_04: And so I don't see you as just a dispenser of, you know, regurgitating stuff you've read, but you really sit on that information and make it your own and bring it out at pertinent times to where it can support.
13:08
SPEAKER_04: I've seen you do it in our workshops, I've seen you do it in our coaching.
13:12
SPEAKER_04: So I'm excited for how it's going to transfer into this podcast in terms of just adding that little bit of it's not just a thought, but actually someone's studied this or what have you.
13:23
SPEAKER_04: So I see that as a really important part of your character, if you will.
13:28
SPEAKER_04: Just I was going to say, you know, we talked earlier about episode one.
13:32
SPEAKER_04: And so what do we talk about?
13:33
SPEAKER_04: What is the theme?
13:34
SPEAKER_04: And we bantered that around a fair bit, and I think we agreed on this notion of no enemies within.
13:42
SPEAKER_04: And that's your expression.
13:43
SPEAKER_04: And it's a powerful expression.
13:45
SPEAKER_04: And I just, you know, why is that so important to you?
13:48
SPEAKER_04: Why is it foundational to this podcast?
13:51
SPEAKER_02: And first of all, thank you for the deeply affirming words.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: And before we get to no enemies within, I just want to touch on what you said that speaks to the show in terms of that principle of together we fly.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: Because uh that was an evolution in myself and process.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: Grew up in a traditional competitive home academic league, sports, getting to the bathroom in the morning.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: It was your typical traditional atmosphere.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: And as I participated in competition, when I didn't feel generous towards uh other people, I felt myself contracted and small.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: And it didn't feel good.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: It's not who I wanted to be.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: And then some point in the early days, I was studying some psychology, relationship psychology that was talking about a part of the brain that doesn't differentiate between self and other.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: And that just put the golden rule in a whole different light for me in terms of when I feel generous, it feels right and it feels good.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: And so that principle of oneness, being able to live that in myself as I competed, felt like where I want it to be.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: And there was an inner alignment with that that felt deeply important.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: And so love being in nature, love being out in the woods when I watched the geese and learned about their flying information because they could go farther and faster together.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: It just served as a symbol and inspiration for taking me back to the place of generosity and with rather than against.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: And it shifted me from fear to openness and possibility in a way that felt right.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: So that's the evolution of that mantra for me that feels very central to this podcast and what we aspire to dialogue about and explore.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: And so that and a love of learning, I just I love learning and how we can get better together as well is something that we share a deep passion and commitment in our pursuit of excellence for the greater good.
16:15
SPEAKER_04: And of course, the interesting piece around there, and goodness, I don't know, I forget what year it was that we finally learned about this, but the Latin root word of competitor is compete, which means to strive together, which completely flies in the face of how Western culture has bastardized the term to make it highly combative.
16:36
SPEAKER_04: It's an against model and it's highly aggressive and to the death, all that kind of stuff.
16:42
SPEAKER_04: And yet that was never the intention of the notion of competition, that it was a, that it had, that it began with a synergistic relationship of competing with, as opposed to against.
16:54
SPEAKER_04: And as a convert who grew up in a sport that was truly about against, right, as a rower, that was the paradigm.
17:04
SPEAKER_04: That was the methodology, it was always against.
17:08
SPEAKER_04: And it came from a place of fear, right?
17:10
SPEAKER_04: It wasn't about the excitement of winning, it was the fear of losing.
17:15
SPEAKER_04: And when I adopted your approach, this Together We Fly notion, as a coach, I saw the lightness in the athletes that I was working with, and that they didn't go out to race with the fear that I went out with.
17:29
SPEAKER_04: They went out onto the course, open, as you say, open to finding their best race.
17:35
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, for sure.
17:39
SPEAKER_04: I mean, regret, I don't know, but it does make me feel kind of bummed that I didn't have that experience as a younger athlete and a younger man that I was so caught up in the machismo of the messaging of the time.
17:54
SPEAKER_04: And so I'm excited to see you know how we and how our future guests come together to combine efforts and and see what comes on the other side.
18:07
SPEAKER_04: So that's kind of cool.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: Most definitely.
18:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: And the feeling of that together we fly, how it lands there in our bodies, we hold that differently.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: And there's a rightness to that.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: That speaks to the principle of no enemies within.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: When I think about how hard I was on myself as a younger person, and even I've shared the story many times when I was leaving home to come to university.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: My dad's sending me off at the airport and says, Well, you're your own boss now, and you better be a tough one, or you could really frig things up.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, thanks for the vote of confidence, Dad.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: And he was wanting me to not go down the path of partying as a major in university.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: Not that there was any real risk of that.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: Gee, that doesn't shock me at all, but yet I was a tough boss and it kept me stuck.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: Nothing freed me more to grow than learning to be gentle with myself.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: Every part of us wants something good for us, but we can have weird and wacky ways of trying to meet our needs that are disruptive.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: And so when we can connect with the underlying needs behind the things that drive us crazy about ourselves or are disruptive, whether it's late-night eating or excessive drinking or, you know, staying at work all through the late hours and neglecting family, whatever it is, procrastination, there's usually some adaptive element to why we've held on to that that's productive.
19:55
SPEAKER_02: And when we can get underneath that with curiosity and openness to explore what need it's serving, then we can find more creative, fulfilling ways to meet those needs.
20:06
SPEAKER_04: Right.
20:06
SPEAKER_04: Right.
20:07
SPEAKER_04: I think, you know, and I don't think we're the only ones who had a parting message like that with our parents, right?
20:13
SPEAKER_04: Especially perhaps our generation.
20:16
SPEAKER_04: Being a tough boss was a strategy, and it's not like it doesn't work, right?
20:21
SPEAKER_04: Being hard on yourself is can be an effective way to get stuff done.
20:27
SPEAKER_04: I think what we've both come to learn, myself especially, later to the game, is that it runs absolutely counter to us finding our best self.
20:37
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, goodness, I remember growing up as a young boy, it was always about outworking whoever else there was.
20:47
SPEAKER_04: And my feeling was there's no way on earth that I'm gonna lose a race because I didn't work hard enough.
20:55
SPEAKER_04: So that's what drove me was the fear of not being as fit or strong as our competitors.
21:05
SPEAKER_04: And again, from a place of fear, not the excitement of, wow, I wonder what I'm capable of.
21:11
SPEAKER_04: And though those have two different energies behind them, right?
21:14
SPEAKER_04: So I think it's it's really important to distinguish the notion of that we all have quote unquote, or have had, enemies who we might deem as enemies, but I think maybe a softer version of that is parts of ourselves that sort of challenge us, I guess.
21:30
SPEAKER_04: And I think the misnomer that those tough parts, that tough boss, although effective, in some ways is an incredibly limiting force.
21:43
SPEAKER_04: And it took me the longest time to get my head around that.
21:47
SPEAKER_04: And but once I did, once that penny dropped, it was like, holy smokes.
21:52
SPEAKER_04: You know, why has it taken me to my mid to late 20s for this one to finally no goodness, late 30s.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: For that one to finally drop.
22:01
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, I mean, better late than never, right?
22:03
SPEAKER_04: But still, it was sort of a what I like to call a lie, right?
22:08
SPEAKER_04: We got sold a lie when we were kids that being hard on yourself was the best strategy.
22:16
SPEAKER_04: I think maybe at the time it was the only strategy.
22:18
SPEAKER_04: That's maybe why it was just the default.
22:22
SPEAKER_04: You know, Johnny's or Susie's parents did it, and so we'll guess my parents are getting, you know, it's just how coaches coached.
22:28
SPEAKER_04: It was so much a part of our culture.
22:30
SPEAKER_04: I think it very much still is, but I think there's a nuance that is available for people to consider, and that's really important.
22:39
SPEAKER_04: Why do you think uh this notion of no enemies within is a foundational understanding for what we want to do with this podcast?
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, if I can just go back to the Go back to that airport when the evolution of that for me had something also to do with uh my training in process-oriented psychology, process work.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: Arnold and Amy Mandel were the founders of that.
23:05
SPEAKER_04: Can you just explain what process-oriented psychology is?
23:08
SPEAKER_04: Please.
23:09
SPEAKER_04: You're gonna get there?
23:10
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: So sorry.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: So the primary principle uh within process work is that the parts of ourselves that we consider problematic, disruptive, not the real us, uh they're considered secondary processes.
23:33
SPEAKER_02: And when we can learn to relate to them differently, again with openness and curiosity, there's usually something there for us.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: And it becomes more possible to integrate that part into who we are and how we're living.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: But it takes curiosity and openness.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: And so the Jungian principle of teleology that there's an innate drive towards meaning and purpose, and so the integration of those parts that we experience as problematic, are part of that meaning-making evolutionary process.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: And even Donna Markova is a beautiful authorwriter who had a book called No Enemies Within.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: And so that Youngian process work along with those other exposures, combined with another book that I bumped into by virtue of my roommate had a book.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: I picked it up one day and started looking at it, warming up on a bike to go for a run.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: And it was talking about in the process of trying to make changes, being gentle with yourself and just really taking that in.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of possibility in working with the different parts of ourselves, the inner community of parts.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: And I remember points in my life where I felt like I wanted to rip a frustrating part out of me.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: I felt so stuck or frustrated, but that didn't take me anywhere.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: When I could take a breath and create space again to invite that curiosity, there was movement and new possibilities emerged.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: And so part of my belief about no enemies within, when we have that orientation towards ourselves, it heightens our inner awareness and we can grow forward in ways that matter to us.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: And when we do that within, it has a ripple effect on our relationships.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: If we're willing to do it within and notice those dynamics, it can also broaden and invite curiosity when we have interpersonal conflict or there's something in a relationship that feels limiting, restrictive, or just pisses us off.
25:51
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
25:51
SPEAKER_04: So would you would you say that book, that biking moment in the book, was that the catalyst?
25:56
SPEAKER_02: That was an earlier exposure when I was younger that softened and opened me to be gentle with myself.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: And then I felt the difference in shifting from stuck to growing forward.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: So it was a lived experience of how that helps.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: And then a deeper dive into it through formal studies.
26:22
SPEAKER_04: So up until that moment it was tough boss.
26:24
SPEAKER_04: And then that opened a part of you that was curious about okay, we'll wonder if there's something to this.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: It it helped.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: It helped me grow.
26:32
SPEAKER_04: So my moment, as you well remember that, because you suggested I go see him, it was a chiropractor named Stuart.
26:43
SPEAKER_04: And so this is years ago, I'm gonna say late 2000s, and you know, some back stuff, and I go to see him and walk in, and you know, at the time, certainly a little more evolved now, but at the time I had some judgment around sort of the hippie-dippy earth muffin way that he presented, right?
27:09
SPEAKER_04: The whole place smelled like patulli.
27:11
SPEAKER_04: He had linen pants on, he had Jesus sandals on, and called me man, and you know, all that sort of stuff.
27:19
SPEAKER_04: Super nice guy, but I had a story around that.
27:23
SPEAKER_04: So I'm in his you know, sort of observation room, got a table in there, asked me to take my shirt off, turns me around, you know, he's looking at my back and he goes, Wow, you're really overdeveloped on one side of your back, which was common for rowers, okay, especially if it was sweet, because you're sort of used to prawn on one side of the boat.
27:45
SPEAKER_04: And so he says, Oh, wow, did you used to row?
27:48
SPEAKER_04: And I said, I did.
27:50
SPEAKER_04: And anytime someone asked me that question, I knew where the conversation was going.
27:55
SPEAKER_04: And sure enough, the next question is, who'd you row for?
28:00
SPEAKER_04: And I wrote for Uvic.
28:02
SPEAKER_04: And then, of course, did you get on the national team?
28:04
SPEAKER_04: Yes, got on the national team.
28:06
SPEAKER_04: As soon as I said that, I knew the next question was, you know, did you go to the Olympics?
28:12
SPEAKER_04: Yes, I went to the Olympics.
28:14
SPEAKER_04: And that's where I wanted the conversation to end.
28:15
SPEAKER_04: But I knew I wasn't going to be that lucky.
28:18
SPEAKER_04: His next question was, oh, wow, cool, man.
28:20
SPEAKER_04: How'd you do?
28:21
SPEAKER_04: Right?
28:21
SPEAKER_04: Did you win?
28:23
SPEAKER_04: And that brought me back to the story that I hated sharing at the time because, as you know, we went to the Olympics in 1988.
28:30
SPEAKER_04: I was a member of the Canadian Men's Eight, defending Olympic champions, expecting, expected to repeat, didn't finish DFL in the final.
28:38
SPEAKER_04: And that was a moment for me.
28:41
SPEAKER_04: And all these years later, I was still processing that, right?
28:44
SPEAKER_04: Almost 20 years later.
28:45
SPEAKER_04: It was still a thorn.
28:47
SPEAKER_04: It's not like it owned my days, but it was a thorn.
28:52
SPEAKER_04: And so when he asked, How did you do it?
28:55
SPEAKER_04: It was a sort of a dismissive comment, hoping that he would pick up on my energy and sort of end of conversation.
29:03
SPEAKER_04: So, and he did.
29:05
SPEAKER_04: So we went over to the table, he continued to do some muscle testing.
29:10
SPEAKER_04: And then a few moments later, we haven't spoken since the question, since my answer.
29:15
SPEAKER_04: And he says, if you could go back to that day and that moment when you came into the dock after the race, what would you say to yourself?
29:25
SPEAKER_04: And I remember thinking, you bugger, like, you don't get to ask that question because we've just met, and that's a like nobody's ever asked me that question.
29:38
SPEAKER_04: And but it was such a genuine question.
29:41
SPEAKER_04: Well, he wasn't being disrespectful or trying to pry or what have you.
29:44
SPEAKER_04: It was just a genuine question.
29:46
SPEAKER_04: And in hindsight, a beautiful question, an important question.
29:49
SPEAKER_04: And so again, wanting to blow off that, I just went, I don't know.
29:55
SPEAKER_04: I probably would have given myself a hug.
29:58
SPEAKER_04: And in the moment of sharing, of giving that answer, my throat locked.
30:04
SPEAKER_04: And I started to tear up and I couldn't speak.
30:08
SPEAKER_04: And so now in that moment, I was even more pissed off at this guy because he had got me to show what I considered weakness, which was getting teary-eyed in front of another man.
30:23
SPEAKER_04: And so he looked at me, he stopped, and he looked at me, and obviously my eyes are welling up, and he said, That's a good question, or that's a good answer, because that's exactly what you probably needed.
30:35
SPEAKER_04: And I just thought, wow.
30:37
SPEAKER_04: And so that moment, I am forever grateful for that Earth Muffin, because he changed the narrative, right?
30:47
SPEAKER_04: He helped me understand that the way that I had trained, the way I had motivated myself, which was not pretty, was absolutely an interference in terms of me discovering my best self as an athlete.
31:02
SPEAKER_04: And that's when the narrative changed.
31:04
SPEAKER_04: And that's when I started to get curious about, huh, like what if my first response had been compassion to myself?
31:11
SPEAKER_04: What if I had got a hug from somebody?
31:15
SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, I've since done some research.
31:18
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, good old Stuart, he's bang on because that's what the research shows.
31:23
SPEAKER_04: That if I had, if we had come in and I just owned the fact that, wow, that was not a good race.
31:31
SPEAKER_04: And it is a such a drag that we chose our Olympic final to have our worst race ever.
31:37
SPEAKER_04: But that's what makes Olympic gold medals mean so much, is that the stars have to align, everybody's got to be in sync and firing, and it didn't happen.
31:49
SPEAKER_04: And that's life.
31:51
SPEAKER_04: So I think being able to just own that and acknowledge that and don't make it mean or not make it mean that I was a bad person or weak or a loser or whatever I made it mean at the time, which was lots of stuff, and instead gone, well, okay, bad race.
32:12
SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna accept that.
32:14
SPEAKER_04: And when I get home, I'm going to put that race and the years or the months that led up to that race under a microscope.
32:22
SPEAKER_04: And I'm gonna look for the things that went well, I'm gonna look for the things that didn't go well, and I'm going to adjust my training for the next four-year quadrennial.
32:31
SPEAKER_04: Like that would have been the healthiest response that I could have had.
32:36
SPEAKER_04: And yet, the culture at the time would have told me that that was wrong, that that was not an effective strategy.
32:44
SPEAKER_04: That the effective strategy is you suck, you just lost on the world stage, you better freaking work your ass off harder next time so that doesn't happen again.
32:54
SPEAKER_04: And you got to do that so that you redeem yourself, you get revenge, there's redemption, yada yada yada.
33:00
SPEAKER_04: Like you talk about mantras, that was the toxic mantra at the time.
33:04
SPEAKER_04: And when I think about how debilitating that was and how much that went against what I was actually trying to do, it kind of pisses me off a bit.
33:15
SPEAKER_04: Because if Stewart's thinking had been the thinking at the time, I very likely would have gone to 92 Olympics, maybe the 96 Olympics.
33:26
SPEAKER_04: Who knows?
33:27
SPEAKER_04: But I would have left rowing in a much healthier place than the way I did.
33:32
SPEAKER_04: And that's kind of the part that that gets stuck, right?
33:36
SPEAKER_04: Is that I did it to myself because I was doing what the culture of rowing dictated at the time.
33:44
SPEAKER_04: And so I never saw my potential, I left the sport bitter and didn't have to be that way, right?
33:52
SPEAKER_04: I don't begrudge it because of what I've learned and what the work we do now and all that sort of stuff, but man, for sure, there's a part of me that thinks, yeah, about like if the messaging at the time had been different, the outcome would have been substantially different.
34:11
SPEAKER_04: And as earth-muffin-ish as I want to consider Stuart, that guy was bang on the money.
34:18
SPEAKER_04: And like I said, I'm forever grateful because he's the one who opened the door to me questioning what I believed and whether or not it was actually serving me.
34:28
SPEAKER_04: And then eventually changing the way I coached and making sure my athletes didn't adopt the way I believe that they adopted what you believed, that compassion, self-compassion, is part of high performance.
34:41
SPEAKER_04: And it is part of discovering your best self.
34:44
SPEAKER_04: And that the whipping stick, as effective as it can be, is ultimately going to run you into the ground and run out of steam.
34:53
SPEAKER_04: And I know that's a lot, but that was my sort of window into understanding the concept.
34:59
SPEAKER_04: I didn't have a name for it at the time, but understanding the notion of no enemies within.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: And when you were able to recognize that what you internalize, we all internalize aspects of our culture and our social circles.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: And some of those internalizations serve us, strengthen us, and are really good.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: And it's helpful to question sometimes whether elements of what we absorb from society and culture is aligning with who we want to be and the world we want to live in.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: And you would like that gap to be smaller in terms of wait a minute, this part didn't work for me.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: I want something different here.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: But now that you live the willingness to give yourself a hug when you don't land where you aspire to land, you feel what a gift that is.
35:53
unknown: Yeah.
35:53
SPEAKER_02: And you've continued to give that in your coaching and how you support others.
35:58
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, it's not just us, it's not just because we went to the Olympics that we're the only ones who have experienced a tough kick in the backside.
36:07
SPEAKER_04: It's ubiquitous.
36:08
SPEAKER_04: It's all throughout our culture.
36:09
SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure many of the listeners will could all tell back a story of their own where they have been encouraged to be harder on themselves.
36:19
SPEAKER_04: And then perhaps even to carry that story further, how that's played out.
36:24
SPEAKER_04: And I mean, we see it in our clients all the time.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: And so the invitation for our listeners is what part of you currently might you be struggling with that feels like an inner enemy?
36:36
SPEAKER_02: And what might happen if you're willing to get curious and embrace that part and find what the underlying need is.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: That thing that drives you crazy about yourself is trying to meet.
36:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: So perhaps that's a good place to leave it there with that question about uh how do you want to explore the principle of no enemies within and embrace all the parts with more openness and curiosity and possibly compassion.
37:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
37:07
SPEAKER_04: So thanks for that.
37:08
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
37:08
SPEAKER_04: Thanks for that conversation.
37:09
SPEAKER_04: And thanks for being here with us.
37:11
SPEAKER_04: And remember to like and subscribe and share and maybe tell your friends about it.
37:17
SPEAKER_04: That'd be awesome.
37:18
SPEAKER_04: And if you want to post a comment as well, that'd be true.
37:20
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
37:21
SPEAKER_04: So we'll look forward to seeing you next time.
37:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes, thanks for joining us today.
37:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: And see you next time.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's it for today's episode of Imagine the Good.
37:31
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37:36
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37:52
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37:59
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