Latest / Tony & Sarah Unscripted / Ep 14: A Mother’s Path to Change

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Ep 14: A Mother’s Path to Change · Tony & Sarah Unscripted

0:17
All right.
0:18
Denise, welcome to Tony and Sara.
0:20
Unscripted. Thank you so much.
0:22
Thanks so much for coming on.
0:24
As I said to you before that I know that this can be difficult
0:27
to bring back up in your life.
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Not that you're not live living it every single day.
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But we just wanted to have you in because,
0:37
I think you're a wonderful, amazing person.
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Okay. And.
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And one thing that we wanted to to bring on
0:47
this show is people that are and have made a difference in this world
0:52
in some way or another and have also taken tragedy
0:56
and used it to, to help others.
0:59
So that being said, if you wouldn't mind
1:03
just kind of giving a like a quick summary of
1:07
of what happened in 2020 and kind of since then, it's it's hard to say it.
1:12
I know and you know, as I replay it back in my mind, there's
1:16
so much more that happened that we didn't even realize was happening at the time.
1:21
Essentially, my son Ellis, who was a senior in high school
1:25
at the time, went to the library to go look at a project for school.
1:29
It was a Sunday, very typical day, very typical activity, and he never came home.
1:35
And as.
1:39
You know, as normal as it might be
1:41
for another family, but the fact that he missed dinner
1:45
and didn't call to let us know he was going to.
1:48
And I know that's not so unusual for a senior in high school.
1:51
It was so out of character for his behavior.
1:54
Had his dad and I very worried.
1:57
So he didn't come home for dinner.
1:59
He didn't come home,
2:01
you know, into the evening.
2:03
We went to the police station.
2:04
And the net net of the story is for two and a half, for two days.
2:10
We were back and forth to our local police department,
2:13
begging them to help us find our son.
2:17
At one point, they did find our son in the middle of the night.
2:20
He was he had used my credit card at a gas station
2:24
and because of the way our legal system works,
2:28
the protocol was for us to call the state troopers to go see if Ellis was okay.
2:34
This was hours after he. Despite my card,
2:39
he was actually sleeping in a gas station
2:41
an hour and a half away from our home in the middle of the night.
2:45
Sunday,
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which he'd never slept out from school night ever in his life.
2:52
This information was unfortunate.
2:53
Police department and,
2:56
when the state troopers found him, they questioned him a little bit.
3:00
I have since watched the video footage of that questioning.
3:04
He was not making sense.
3:06
However, they don't know it was for him.
3:09
They thought he was okay.
3:11
They called a PA local police department.
3:14
So instead of calling us to let us know that they had,
3:18
located him and our police department called me.
3:23
I spoke to the officer and I said, you know,
3:26
at first we were going on the assumption that he was carjacked
3:29
or something terrible to him.
3:31
So when I verify that he was actually all right.
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The next thing in my mouth was for the he's.
3:37
There's no way he's lucid and in any condition to drive
3:42
because he would just never do this.
3:44
And I was told for being,
3:47
that he was fine and not having a psychotic break.
3:50
That's what they said to me.
3:52
They used that language. Yes.
3:54
Wow. Okay.
3:56
They let him go.
3:57
And then the next day, in the middle of the afternoon,
4:01
he. He
4:03
stabbed a woman who was sitting in her car in her leg.
4:06
She was waiting to go into a salon appointment, and he was
4:11
sleeping in the same
4:13
parking lot.
4:13
And he had seen her in the car, and he was in a state
4:16
of psychosis and stabbed.
4:20
Oh my gosh. Yes.
4:23
And our police department, they refused to.
4:27
And he is responsible for that.
4:28
So I'm not shirking responsibility from what he did.
4:31
And on that I'm not taking that away.
4:35
But I will point out that our department, they refused to check our cell phone.
4:40
He had our cell phone on his person that we paid for that was in our name.
4:43
They wouldn't track it.
4:44
They wouldn't allow us to report our own car stolen.
4:48
Who's driving you know, a vehicle that was registered
4:51
and they wouldn't let me reported stolen.
4:54
And as I listened to the the audiotapes
4:59
of the police officers talking about what was going on with their son,
5:05
and you know, this mom
5:07
thinks because her son's not home, that something's going on.
5:10
You know, I call begging in the middle of the night.
5:14
You know, he's still my only son at home.
5:16
I know they located him and he never came back.
5:19
And I like when I listen back to how the police officers
5:23
were speaking to each other, you know, they were like, you know what to do.
5:27
Get rid of her.
5:28
You know, the mom keeps ramping up, you know, like I was a nuisance.
5:33
And they literally told me it was not a place.
5:35
It was a it was a,
5:38
they didn't say family issue, but they said something,
5:40
something along those lines like, it's, you know, this is not our problem.
5:43
I'm still calling.
5:45
This is because he was not a minor.
5:49
Like they didn't see it as a problem.
5:53
Essentially, yes.
5:55
They just didn't see it as an issue.
5:57
But so the fact that they mentioned that it we were saying, oh, he probably met
6:00
someone who caught his fancy, like, that's what they were saying in the background,
6:05
you know, that that's what they said.
6:06
That's literally what they said.
6:08
It was so bad that, you know,
6:10
one morning, you know,
6:12
his dad and I were at the police station and showing one of the officers there.
6:18
We were showing her what normal is for him, you know, so we
6:21
we pulled up text messages from New Year's Eve
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because New Year's Eve, you know, he's in high school,
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you know, he's out all night
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and we're showing her how, you know, it's New Year's Eve.
6:30
He's not coming home for the evening.
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But still,
6:33
when we text him to see what's going on, he responds within a few minutes.
6:38
We haven't heard from him in more than 24 hours.
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We are leaving him
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voicemails, begging you to call us back.
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You're scared to death. This is not normal.
6:50
And she took her phone number down.
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She never even took it down.
6:54
When he was eventually arrested in Westport, Connecticut,
6:57
the police department there called our police department, and they did not have
7:03
to give to them.
7:04
So they never. And they never came to our house.
7:06
They never notified us.
7:08
It wasn't until I called again
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and she got on the phone and said, oh, you you
7:14
no one's got in touch with you yet, but they knew they didn't need us.
7:18
So, so so okay.
7:21
I knew something was fundamentally broken, but so when they said
7:25
it's not a psychotic break, that would that would say to me that they knew what.
7:30
Right.
7:30
That they knew what to look for, which is exactly is not the case.
7:36
Shame on me.
7:37
I assume they did.
7:39
I assume they, of course,
7:41
of course.
7:42
But can we. Can we?
7:44
Before we move forward,
7:45
can you explain what a psychotic break is for the audience, for those who don't?
7:50
Yeah. All right.
7:51
So the psychosis
7:54
is essentially when you lose touch with reality.
7:58
I mean, and it's not always due to an illness.
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It can happen.
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People can have psychosis
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for a lot of different reasons and with a lot of different illnesses.
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So dementia, Parkinson's disease
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may cause psychosis as well.
8:15
Schizophrenia causes psychosis.
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So it is a combination.
8:20
Usually a combination of hallucinations and delusions and hallucinations
8:24
would mean seeing something that's not there, maybe smelling something
8:28
that's not there. Here. Hearing voices.
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These are all hallucinations.
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And delusions would be false beliefs.
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So maybe you believe somebody is giving you commands,
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or you believe that somebody is out to hurt you,
8:43
or that you're in imminent danger, or to be grandiose.
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You might believe that you're, you know, like control, you know, have superpowers.
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That would be delusions.
8:54
Okay.
8:57
In the, you know,
9:00
in the case of our son, he he had a psychotic break.
9:03
So which would mean he went from.
9:10
Not ever having hallucinations or delusions.
9:13
There was no build up.
9:14
Our son has a has a diagnosis of schizophrenia.
9:17
So that's what that's that's after this happened or before this happened.
9:21
After. After.
9:23
Okay. Before this happened.
9:25
No, no. Yes.
9:26
We had it was this happened essentially on a dime as far as we're concerned.
9:31
So he had an acute psychotic break.
9:33
However, we have since learned
9:35
certain things about his risk factors for schizophrenia.
9:39
We know that
9:41
we have a family member.
9:43
You know, when, you know, we have a he has enough,
9:47
not an uncle.
9:48
His grandmother's brother had, has or had schizophrenia.
9:53
So we, you know, there's a genetic component to it.
9:56
We were not aware of that
9:59
at the time.
9:59
Another reason why I'm so outspoken.
10:01
Because mental abuse. So taboo.
10:04
People don't talk about it.
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And if we don't talk about it, how are we going to change
10:10
the outcomes for people moving forward?
10:13
So our story is out there.
10:16
I am happy to talk about it.
10:17
I cannot tell you how many people have privately messaged me
10:22
about family members who have symptoms of psychosis
10:26
in their, you know, in their own family or in their own lives.
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It is not that uncommon.
10:31
So he was eventually diagnosed with schizophrenia,
10:37
but after his arrest we did not know leading up to it.
10:41
And we do know now. Well, this happened.
10:43
This happened January 5th of 2020.
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We do know that he he actually was starting
10:51
to have symptoms of psychosis as early as August.
10:56
But it wasn't as intrusive.
10:58
It if he had started to he saw this metaphysical
11:02
being called who we referred to as Jackson.
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That was
11:06
kind of the
11:07
catalyst in all of this in Jackson was somebody
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that was more benign in the beginning
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and then became more,
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devious. You know, later on.
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However, when you're hallucinating due to an illness,
11:24
it is as clearly as
11:27
you see me sitting across from the TV.
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From you, that's what it is for somebody else.
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You sometimes you have the insight to say that doesn't make any sense.
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Like if I was seeing an object
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or if I was seeing, let's say I saw an iceberg behind you,
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I would know that there's probably not a good likelihood of that.
11:47
Right. But if I saw a third person with you,
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why would. How would I know? Yeah.
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So it's there.
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And and that's what psychosis can do.
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Now, on the positive side.
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Schizophrenia has a pretty good,
12:02
cure rate, which I was not aware of.
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Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know it either.
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I always thought was.
12:07
You have to have it.
12:08
It was a sentence that was. Yeah. What? It was in my mind.
12:10
I didn't know much about it, but,
12:14
about 35% of people
12:17
will have a full, like, a full recovery.
12:20
I'm just going. Amazing. Yeah.
12:22
And if you are, if you have an acute onset, the odds are higher.
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So up to 60% who have an acute onset will go on and lead a very
12:33
if you get the care you need though everything.
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I mean brain like your brain is on fire.
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So timing is everything.
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Yeah, literally your brain is being destroyed.
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Yeah.
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So which leads us to some of the other advocacy that I've done
12:51
for better mental health treatment in our prison system and so forth.
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Because if you have a serious mental illness, you're ten times
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more likely to end up in prison and in a mental health hospital.
13:02
And that's across the country. Yeah.
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So the three largest mental health centers in our country are all prisons.
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So when he was arrested,
13:13
they still didn't know that it was a psychotic break.
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And how was he, like, how did he survive?
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Like, because he didn't know.
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When you have a psychotic break,
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you don't know you're having a psychotic break, right?
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How did this for a kid know what was going on?
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I mean, can you talk a little bit about when when he was first, like, in in jail?
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I guess that's where they put him first.
13:35
That that it's an interesting.
13:38
It's an interesting point.
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They knew something was wrong.
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You know, they knew
13:44
they knew there was something wrong with him, but they didn't
13:48
have the tools to really diagnose.
13:51
You know, I will say, while Gilford guilford's Police Department,
13:56
they did not have one officer who had crisis intervention team training.
14:00
Wow. Required to be able to assess if somebody is having,
14:06
a psychotic break.
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It's also great for people who have autism.
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You know, it's really with dementia.
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This training is very, very useful.
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And which is why I'm so passionate about.
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But Westport
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did they did have officers who had the training.
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Think thank goodness he may have been shot.
14:26
Yeah. If you know. Yeah.
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If they did it
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then when they what I was told was when they originally called in the
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when the call originally came in, it came in as what they call code blue
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when somebody is trying to die by suicide
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because what he did was totally in the middle of the day.
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He didn't even flee the scene.
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He stayed there.
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So. And then he left when people started coming after him. So
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they thought because it was so blatant,
14:53
maybe he was like looking to,
14:55
you know, he wanted to be shot.
14:59
Yeah. Yeah.
15:00
And when he pulled over,
15:03
they said, like,
15:05
as soon as he put his hand, I guess he put his hand out of the window.
15:08
And they just like they looked and they were just like, oh my goodness.
15:12
So when the police officers from Westport, I will say
15:15
they were very empathetic and very kind.
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And when they did come over, they did seem it
15:22
did seem to be a pretty clear picture for them
15:25
when when they came and when they put him in prison,
15:28
they put him in
15:29
what's called a turtle suit, which is somebody who was at risk of suicide
15:33
and they put him into a mental health unit
15:35
and they knew he was not in his right state of mind.
15:40
They didn't know
15:40
what was going on, but it was just such a bizarre act.
15:44
When his dad and I went to go see him.
15:47
I mean, in the beginning, just as we walked out of that prison
15:53
and looked at each other and said, you know,
15:57
we had 18 amazing years and now he's gone.
16:00
Oh my God, in these.
16:02
That's what we thought.
16:06
And gratefully, that is not the case.
16:08
So, you know, today we understand that he is in prison, but he is him.
16:13
Yeah.
16:14
Oh, he so he he got the care kind of that he needs and.
16:17
Well, no, no.
16:18
Yeah, that's what I said.
16:21
Oh no no no no. Yeah.
16:23
So no, they,
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you know, it's because I testified
16:29
last session to ensure that people who are in the prison system
16:33
get, comprehensive mental health care within 48 hours.
16:37
They should be assessed and treated, and and our our
16:41
our child was left essentially in a state of psychosis for three and a half years.
16:45
Three and a half years. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
16:50
Where he received.
16:56
Poor treatment.
16:57
Well meaning poor treatment.
17:01
By mental health counselors who were doing the best that they can
17:04
with the resources that they had and the knowledge that they had,
17:08
50% of people who had psychosis have something
17:12
called a signature and that's, that's, that's also biological.
17:16
And so when you, you just have no idea that you're sick.
17:18
Yeah.
17:19
So you know, our son is in prison saying I'm fine, I'm fine.
17:25
But, you know, I want to represent myself in court and I want to do that.
17:29
Because that no rational person would say
17:32
and you know talking about Jackson and you know there
17:37
and just
17:40
nobody had I mean his mental health counselor
17:43
had never even heard about this acknowledgment.
17:45
Oh wow.
17:45
So they did finally medicated him
17:49
and he refused medication
17:50
because he didn't think he was sick in the beginning as well.
17:53
There's that.
17:54
But nobody knew how to get him to a point
17:58
that he would be receptive to the idea that he was ill.
18:00
His dad and I did it.
18:02
His dad and I did the training for NSA.
18:05
And we worked with him over three and a half years.
18:07
And finally we got him to try medication,
18:11
which they put him on, and him again, just not.
18:18
The mental
18:19
health care in prisons is so poor.
18:22
They they overdosed him.
18:24
They combine medications that are contraindicated to be used together.
18:28
They overdosed him.
18:32
Luckily and not luckily, he aged out of Manson.
18:35
So when he was before he turned 22, he just been on medication
18:39
for a little bit.
18:41
And then they sent him to Florida Correctional Institute,
18:44
where most people who have a serious mental illness
18:49
so that they they treat mental illness by numbers and figures.
18:52
And so if you are a have 4 or 5, you go to coroner.
18:56
He was a four at the time.
18:59
They do know I mean he was so sick
19:02
like he was toxic when he got there and he was saying things to me like,
19:06
I need glasses now.
19:08
I have blurry vision, I can't read.
19:09
It was all from the medication.
19:11
Oh. And when he showed up, he just sort of collapsed.
19:16
You know, he was ignored where he was, so he collapses.
19:19
They put him into a unit and they cleaned up everything.
19:23
And he had a good,
19:26
prescriber
19:28
who changed his medication, and she put him on.
19:30
I mean, I to tell you, I'm fine saying what it is.
19:33
She put him on 20mg over to, to and within, I don't know, three weeks.
19:38
He was in room like and were completely in remission.
19:43
All that suffering could.
19:44
Wow, three and a half years, three and a half years.
19:47
He has not had one hallucination or oh my gosh.
19:51
Now, is
19:52
that absolutely the reason I mean the timing.
19:56
Yes.
19:57
So however he did have a lot of things in his favor.
20:02
He was 18 when it happened.
20:04
He had not
20:06
even though three and a half years.
20:07
Sounds like a really long time.
20:08
And you believe me every single day.
20:11
It felt like a lifetime for us,
20:14
with our mental health system in this country.
20:16
It's actually not unheard of.
20:19
Even a psychiatrist, the average psychiatrist,
20:21
it takes them to nine months of tweaking someone with schizophrenia
20:24
to figure out what's going on. Yeah.
20:27
It's not so.
20:30
And there were programs to expedite that if people took advantage of them
20:34
or if they had access, I should say.
20:40
So he had his age, and he also had, like, a high.
20:43
He never really lost his cognitive reserve.
20:47
So his he didn't have that.
20:50
He had disorganized thinking when he was really symptomatic,
20:52
but he didn't lose his knowledge base where,
21:00
you know, for some people they, they really regressed that way.
21:03
And he was okay.
21:05
And he didn't have terrible negative symptoms either.
21:08
So these are all things for somebody with schizophrenia that if you don't,
21:12
that could be in their favor.
21:13
So he could have spontaneously recovered.
21:16
It could have been the medication.
21:17
It lines up very nicely with the medication.
21:21
Today he's
21:23
not taking any antipsychotic medication
21:26
and he is still not had any hallucinations or delusions.
21:31
And he knows now, like he is so hyper
21:35
vigilant about being aware.
21:38
What that up? Does does he remember
21:45
everything? Does he remember Jackson?
21:47
Does he does he know about, like, can can he?
21:51
I mean, Jackson terrorized him for three and a half years when he was at Manson.
21:54
I mean, not just
21:57
like he thought,
21:59
you know, he would call me crying.
22:01
It sounds it sounds absurd,
22:04
but this is, you know, he had a false belief system.
22:07
He thought the walls of his cell were on fire.
22:11
Was he thought that Jackson was making him shrink and he was going to disappear.
22:15
Oh my gosh.
22:17
You know, I just like him.
22:20
Call me sick of having, you know, he really thought he was going to die.
22:24
He, Jackson was controlling his staff.
22:28
Jackson was, you know, he just he was very he was very,
22:32
very ill for a period of time, and he wasn't getting any treatment.
22:37
Jackson would force him to,
22:40
like, contort himself in odd positions.
22:43
Like, you know, he would have to bend over in a certain way on his back,
22:48
and he couldn't move for 24 hours.
22:52
My gosh.
22:55
Know where he would have,
22:57
you know, he was hurt you know.
22:59
And he was,
23:01
he was just, he was very sick at the time.
23:03
Was Jackson the reason for the incident Jackson is
23:08
the figure of Jackson is a very pivotal figure that can cause,
23:13
in his mind, like world destruction, like not his death.
23:18
His he said he would have welcomed his death,
23:21
but that would not have been what would have happened.
23:24
It would have been like a torture for, you know, like a torture situation.
23:30
Like he felt like he had to
23:32
follow Jackson's commands, you know, or it would mean, like, world destruction,
23:36
like he really in his mind, that's what it was.
23:40
He knows that that is.
23:43
He's a smart kid, you know, he
23:46
he knows that's not the case.
23:47
Now that he's done, you know, now that he's not said
23:52
and he knows to
23:54
he's terrified to ever see Jackson again.
23:57
But I wouldn't say he remembers everything.
24:00
His account of what happened
24:03
is not my account of what happened.
24:04
You know, and you know, you have two people who say the same thing.
24:08
So sometimes that changes.
24:09
But I think he remembers things he had in
24:14
distorted, disorganized thinking while that was happening.
24:18
So I think his recall is that way.
24:20
So I think his recall is accurate,
24:22
but it's not really what was happening at the time.
24:25
Yeah.
24:25
So so I love what you're doing, trying to change the way.
24:32
Has anything changed
24:33
since all this happened with the way the police departments are handling it?
24:37
Because, you know, they're the first responders, man.
24:40
They, they need they need to know this and I'm sure.
24:44
Oh it's changed.
24:45
Oh yeah.
24:46
Oh good good good good good good good good.
24:48
It wasn't easy.
24:50
It was met with a lot of resistance because police officers, even,
24:54
cable, the the Connecticut Association to benefit law enforcement.
24:59
Who does the crisis intervention team training.
25:01
Yeah, they,
25:04
did not
25:04
endorse making this training much mandatory in the beginning.
25:08
So they but their opinion
25:10
in the beginning was if officers take
25:13
do the training, then they'll be invested if they do it on their own.
25:17
And if they're forced to do the training, they may not be invested.
25:21
I had a different opinion, especially when no one in Guilford
25:24
had ever chosen to do the training.
25:26
So my, my, my thought process was a little bit different, as you can imagine.
25:30
With some legislation.
25:32
And I will I mean, because she's our senator, we'll tell you,
25:35
I don't know where you live, but Christine Cohen was instrumental
25:39
in getting legislative legislation in front of,
25:43
our legislative body about crisis intervention, team training.
25:46
And today, the law in Connecticut
25:51
is that any officer going through the academy Academy has to have crisis.
25:56
And that's great.
25:57
Yeah.
25:58
And every police department has to work with a social worker.
26:03
And I actually just saw this on the news where I didn't see it.
26:06
Somebody told me about it, last week.
26:08
But Representative
26:10
Greg Howard, who's out of Stonington, who was also a big proponent
26:13
and he's a I think he's an acting police chief or former police chief.
26:18
But when I was, presenting in front of the legislature,
26:22
you know, he was very favorable for this training, and now he is looking
26:27
to make sure that there's a social worker in the car that is.
26:31
Wow. Yes.
26:32
So it is it it has got legs also.
26:35
Now, at this point, the way I know so much about psychosis is now I'm
26:38
the co-president of Nami shoreline, National Alliance on Mental Illness
26:42
as well. And for, for our area.
26:45
So this has been something I really jumped in with two feet and,
26:53
our affiliate
26:55
will offset the cost for any officer.
26:58
Dispatcher.
27:01
EMT, fire department worker, anyone who wants to go through
27:05
this training that does a public service,
27:09
Demas covers
27:11
the bulk of the training fee, and we will pay.
27:14
That's wonderful.
27:15
Whatever charges are up, you know that they're responsible for.
27:18
And so at first, we were doing it just in our affiliate, and now we're doing it.
27:25
We've been, you know, we've been raising money.
27:26
So we've been doing it for the entire state.
27:28
So we've had officers and it's amazing the training from,
27:31
you know, Waterbury,
27:34
you know, Meriden Middle.
27:36
It doesn't matter.
27:37
Yeah.
27:37
When I go through the training, you know, look I'm not sure a line.
27:40
That's what I just what
27:43
I just so
27:46
what what is it that you hope
27:48
to see for Alice in the future and other.
27:52
Yeah.
27:53
Individuals. Right.
27:54
So you know, you learn as you go. Right.
27:57
So and
27:59
so in some ways.
28:02
I would never say
28:04
I am thankful that this happened because I really wish it never happened.
28:09
However, I am thankful.
28:12
I'm thankful that I know what I know.
28:14
Yeah.
28:16
I mean, there's so many things I just
28:20
was unaware of.
28:23
I hope to see.
28:25
I hope to see no one else get missed.
28:29
Like how it should have never happened.
28:31
Happen.
28:33
I can't say what would have happened,
28:35
but January 15th never had to happen.
28:38
There never had to be a victim.
28:41
Right.
28:45
Now my son is a first grader,
28:48
and it is a space
28:50
that most people don't think twice about.
28:53
And it's true that if you're incarcerated,
28:57
you know,
28:58
if you belong there, and then if you come out,
29:01
you commit another crime because you do learn your lesson.
29:05
We have a deeply dysfunctional
29:09
Department of Corrections that really does not serve to
29:14
I mean, it certainly does not serve as a vehicle for recovery
29:17
for people with mental illness, even though a very
29:19
large percentage of the population does have serious mental illness,
29:23
nor does it
29:25
serve as a place for rehabilitation.
29:27
So folks that, for example, Ellis has been incarcerated
29:31
for six years, is taking one class.
29:35
Oh my gosh, he had the opportunity to participate.
29:38
I mean, it is six years or six years and all he does,
29:43
all they provide for him is a card and he reads, I send him books.
29:49
They do have a library where
29:50
he was recently moved to another facility that does have a library.
29:54
However,
29:57
it's like there's no we've
29:59
been trying to get him into programing for six years, so you know
30:04
what happens to somebody whose mind
30:07
may have nothing to do for now? On.
30:11
And I mean, they're just idle all the time,
30:14
you know, and there are a lot of things about, you know, being idle.
30:17
Also, he hasn't been outdoors since September,
30:22
so there's very limited access to fresh air,
30:25
sunlight, you know, you know, even when he was getting outside,
30:30
the sun was often down already by the time he went outdoors.
30:33
The quality of the food is horrible.
30:35
And, you know, as we learn more about serious mental illness,
30:39
quality of or diet is instrumental in recovering
30:42
or staying healthy.
30:46
I mean, it is just
30:47
it is a warehouse, you know, it's a warehouse where people
30:53
are not given any tools
30:56
to prepare themselves for reentry into society.
31:00
Many people reenter society, require nursing care.
31:04
You know, they come out sick.
31:07
Nor, I mean, it's
31:10
just, you know, there's they take away your,
31:14
your agency over yourself and you come out with your sense of purpose.
31:18
You know, you know, you can't really have any sense of purpose.
31:21
So, so
31:24
for everyone there, you know,
31:27
my my hope is that we do the best we can as a society.
31:30
I think it speaks to who we are as a state.
31:33
We are small.
31:34
You better absolutely.
31:37
For almost $1 billion into our Department of Corrections
31:42
every year. Wow.
31:46
So it's, I mean,
31:49
and and, you know, even garner the mental health.
31:53
Yeah.
31:55
You know, institution,
31:58
you know, they're having people die by suicide there on a regular basis.
32:01
Like, it's a it's a perk. It's very ceiling.
32:04
Yeah.
32:05
Human beings allow it to happen, you know, allowing this to happen.
32:08
So, you know, one voice, you know, there are more.
32:12
Yeah. But here's a do nothing alone.
32:14
I mean, people there more more people are speaking.
32:16
Yeah, but your your voice made such a difference.
32:20
Getting this.
32:21
I love how if they go through the academy, they have to have the training.
32:24
That's huge. And you didn't give up on that?
32:27
You made it.
32:27
You know, you made it happen. And it's.
32:30
It's good. I know it's probably changing lives already.
32:32
Oh my gosh. Yes.
32:33
I mean, thank you.
32:35
Really I'm
32:35
I want to thank you for everybody that's listening they would just say thank you.
32:40
It's a big deal what you've done.
32:42
And I hope you feel that it's.
32:43
Thank you very much. I do want to say, while
32:48
I, I may have created some noise,
32:51
I have not I have not done anything alone.
32:54
Right. Yeah.
32:55
I don't do anything alone.
32:57
Yeah, but the noise matters.
32:58
Yeah. The noise, the noise is what starts it.
33:00
It really does.
33:02
But yeah.
33:02
I'm just so grateful to you for coming on here and sharing the story.
33:06
And I know that we could do just so much more.
33:09
That's, we could talk about.
33:11
Yeah, but, in four years, he comes home.
33:15
I'm hoping soon. Okay.
33:17
Yeah, yeah.
33:18
And he is. You know, he's still need to eat.
33:21
I mean, he literally is a kid who, before this ever happened, you know?
33:26
But he does.
33:27
He still is able to,
33:32
As awful as it is,
33:34
he can find the humor in what's happening.
33:37
It's wonderful.
33:38
And he can crack a joke still.
33:40
And he can, you know, I. Yeah.
33:45
My, my my thought for my
33:47
child is that, you know, he will live a lifetime
33:51
and this will be a chapter, but it will not define him.
33:54
Yeah. Perfect.
33:56
Good way to end.
33:57
Yes. Thanks, Denise, for coming on.
33:59
Thank you. Yeah.
34:00
All right.
34:00
Thanks, everyone for joining us.
34:02
And we'll see you next episode.