Latest / 85 Percent: A Wanderful Podcast / S3 E2: The Sun Is Bright Enough with Amanda Kessy and Asnath Kessy of Still Waters Safaris
Transcript
- Beth Santos: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the 85 Percent podcast. My name is Beth Santos. I'm founder and CEO of Wanderful. And I cannot wait for the conversation that you're gonna listen to today. We sat down with the winners of the Travel Startup of the Year Award at the 2026 Bessies. Their names are Amanda Kessy and her sister Asnath Kessy, and they started a really unique solution. To the safari industry. It's a company called Still Waters Safaris. And let me just break this down for you because this is incredible. In a world where 85 to 90% of safari businesses are owned by expats, white people, and men, these are two Tanzanian sisters who have decided to just take their own path and start an incredible company that helps people really understand The culture and the experience of being in Tanzania and also in South Africa, they do tours there too. They have gone through so many trials and tribulations to make this happen, but they have a really clear and special message. And that is to help more women get into this industry now so that we can really break the ceiling for everyone. I hope you like it. I know it's going to be such a great conversation for you to listen to. So check it out and I'll catch you at the end. thank Asnath Kessy: Yes. Beth Santos: you both for being here. I'm so excited to have this conversation. We have so many good things to talk about. For anyone who doesn't know Amanda and Asnath they have a company that is very near and dear to my heart. They're sisters and co-founders of Still Waters Safaris, which is a woman-owned, family-led luxury safari company based in Arusha, Tanzania. They are representing a whole new face of Tanzanian tourism, woman-led. Rooted in local culture, uncompromising on quality. And they also were the winners of travel startup of the year in this twenty twenty six Bessie Awards, which congratulations, that is like a phenomenal achievement. How did that feel when you found out you won? Amanda Kessy: Well, hi Beth. Thank you so much for the warm introduction. And to be honest, if I'm to talk about how it all felt, it felt so unreal. Like it came at a perfect moment and it's something that we are truly honored to have. And I must say, and Asnath were not physically there, but we were watching we were getting emotional together, like crying. And because, you know, it was not a very easy start being in an industry whereby it's a very male dominant industry. So being a woman, being women and trying to do something and then you seeing such recognitions, it felt like everything. Beth Santos: the award show happened at Amanda Kessy: Yeah. Beth Santos: eight PM Eastern time, which is like an ungodly Amanda Kessy: Yes. Asnath Kessy: Yeah. Beth Santos: hour. I mean, you weren't awake, right? You just waited Asnath Kessy: Exactly. Beth Santos: until you woke up in the morning to find out. Amanda Kessy: There's no way we would go to bed on that night. And the best part, the best part when Asnath Kessy: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The timing. Yeah. Amanda Kessy: it happened is that I was hosting a group of vegans, some amazing vegan people that joined us on a tour. So it was a 14-day tour. By then, when the awards were being mentioned, we were in Zanzibar. We were very close to the end of the Beth Santos: my god. Amanda Kessy: year. I remember going to my room and then I took a nap. I took a nap for like an hour and then I, now my alarm was on and then I... tuned in and as I was watching it I was like my goodness like I was getting cold feet all the time and then when we heard our names there my husband was also on the call with me so we are like you know we are like together but not together and then on the other end our parents were on the call the team people from the team are on the call like it was a whole big gathering Beth Santos: my gosh. Amanda Kessy: you know and I mean when we just heard our names there for a minute I thought like okay maybe that maybe I didn't hear well, maybe I'm just overthinking this, you know? But I remember I froze, but I could just hear our mom screaming to the top of her voice, you know? I was like, wow. Asnath Kessy: The neighbors thought. Something had happened to our household, yeah. Beth Santos: Something happened. Amanda Kessy: Yes, because of the screaming. Asnath Kessy: Yeah, because it was 3 a.m. Yeah, because it's Beth Santos: They're like, god. Asnath Kessy: 3 a.m. and my mom went screaming and my dad was Amanda Kessy: Yeah. Asnath Kessy: like, yeah, the neighbors had to ask what happened. Are they fine? Yeah, but it was eight Beth Santos: my god. Asnath Kessy: hours. Yeah. Amanda Kessy: Yeah. And then the following morning now, when I walked out of my room, I for a moment, that day to be honest, nothing could put me down. Like I felt like a superstar. I felt like I was on top of the world. Like you could tell me nothing because I remember walking out of my room, feeling good. was looking good. we were doing a cooking class and then we driving from Stone Town. We had a tour the previous day. So this day we were going for Beth Santos: Mm. Amanda Kessy: a cooking class and then just to relax by the property by the beach. So that morning, every time I walked through, I walked across anyone from the group, they screamed like, you won, won, well done, congratulations. And you know when I got to that lobby, I remember that moment. It felt like I was literally on top of the world because now there were so many people there and everyone was like, congratulations, putting their hands together. Yeah, but to be honest, it was a beautiful feeling and we are so honored. Like we do not have words that could express the feeling that we all had, not just us, but even the staff that were with me in Zanzibar at that time, they were like, yes, we did it. We're doing a good thing. We did it. Because everyone was like crossing fingers, hoping for the best. So really it was an amazing time. Yeah. Beth Santos: I I love this story. I did not know any of that. What a cool. I mean, it must have felt so special. I think though my favorite part is the part that Asnath told about the neighbors having to call your parents to make sure that everything was okay. Cause that that is hilarious. Amanda Kessy: Here we go. Everything is Beth Santos: But you know what? It also kind of is like an example of the community that they have around them too, that like that would even happen. you've got neighbors knocking on the door being like, Are you all right? It's three in the morning, what's going on? Amanda Kessy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. Beth Santos: I love that. Well, it's it's so great to have you. And I think you know, what you're building, you're building this at such a special time, I think, in the travel industry where people are really looking for more immersive and thoughtful travel experiences. And I want to talk about that, but before I do, I want to make sure that everyone gets a better understanding of what it is that you're Amanda Kessy: Thank you. Beth Santos: building. So let's talk about your story, your two sisters that started. a travel company focused mostly on safari tourism in Tanzania. You're both local to Tanzania. And and I know when we had written about this on the Wanderful blog, we had noticed a couple of interesting statistics which I wanted to share with everyone. 10% of safari companies worldwide are led by women. 10%. So we're we're talking like the show is 85%, right? We're talking about 85% of travel decisions are made by women, but the representation is not there. When you look globally at safari tourism, ninety percent of safari companies are run by men, 15% are black owned. So if you're when you're thinking about the safari industry, it's basically a white expat led industry. And I have to imagine that that had to come into play of like why You both decided, okay, we're gonna step up and do this. Can you talk a little bit about what what prompted you to start this business? Asnath Kessy: I think I can start a little bit with our history as in our dad used to do the business. He used to run a tour company that was his bread and butter. So we saw him as in since childhood as growing up and everything. But it was quite interesting. All the tour companies, the guides were everybody in the tourism industry. So we always thought it's a male thing and growing as a child, like you don't think anything further. about it, but just knowing it's a man's business. Like it can Beth Santos: Yeah. Asnath Kessy: be, there's no way that we would have thought it's something that my mom could have done or a woman could have done. All of his friends were also in the business. Anybody else in the church was male. It's either an uncle, Beth Santos: Wow. Asnath Kessy: either. So we saw it through it and it was only male dominated. My sister is a banker. quantity surveyor by profession. studied always something way different from we didn't go into Beth Santos: Yeah. Asnath Kessy: tourism it's the knowing as in we're like we wanted something to give back and being a family of three girls. are three girls. Amanda is the oldest, I'm the second, and we have a little sister, Anita. Beth Santos: my gosh. Asnath Kessy: And yes, yeah, so we are three girls. And yes, and our dad is, Beth Santos: Wait, three A's? my gosh, I love that. Amanda Osnath and Anita Anita. Asnath Kessy: and our dad is A, so we are daddy's girls. we really wanted something to hold, like, to hold the name and also something to have that also embeds what my dad did. so we're like, what is something common that we are? And it's been 10 years in the making. Me and Amanda have been speaking. Let's find something. So we did brainstorm so many different things, but it's so funny that we never thought about tourism. Then one day, and I think it's because of Amanda's job that she worked in a department that dealt dealt with the people who do tourism as a banker. And she was like, do you know people just come and open companies, they have no much knowledge about it, but they start and the companies grow. I see how they grow and everything. Why can't we do this? And then we always felt like everybody living in a town in Arusha, know, everybody in any family has a relationship. If it's not a God. they work somewhere in that tourism. So we also felt it's oversaturated. And then we came and I remember Amanda told me, the sun is big enough to shine on everybody. So we will also get our customers. Amanda was the one who told me. Yeah. I know. So. Beth Santos: Wait, you said that? Like you literally said those words? Are you just a Amanda, are you a poet? Like who just says stuff like that out loud? The sun is big enough to shine on everybody? Asnath Kessy: Everybody. Yeah. So I was like, okay, Amanda Kessy: It is, it is. Asnath Kessy: cool. So we will also get the part of sunlight, no matter how many we will also get, which will be sufficient for us. Beth Santos: Love it. Asnath Kessy: Then I was like, yeah, yeah, let's start with that brainstorming. We should redo this. And I'm like, for this to work, one has to leave the proper, actually leave the job for us and actually focus on it. And then with me living in and being based in South Africa. so it made sense for Amanda to do the job. But then now she was a new mom. has two little kids. So and then having to be at a job, you have a constant income, monthly, monthly income. Then she needed to take that leap of faith and actually just leave and. start and believe that this will work. So yeah, and then we brainstormed names and we started, it was really almost like a joke, but I think the leap of faith that my sister had and it was like, you know what, today I'm resigning. I think that is what made it go. Cause we had talked about it for such a long time, but you know, when you have a backup, like, you know, you have, Beth Santos: Yeah. Asnath Kessy: you don't push so much on because you're like, okay, I will get something. But now. Still Waters was it. Still Waters was the Beth Santos: Yeah. Asnath Kessy: bread and butter for her family. So we had to get it going. Beth Santos: I had to work. Asnath Kessy: It had to work. We started but like the moment she left the bank and she now fully immersed in it is when we started to see change. And I think it started with just two clients. Just two clients. And with those two clients, was a referral system. Those are the ones who kept giving us clients. I remember we even got clients who did a tour in Tanzania and then came again in South Africa because I also do tours here in South Africa. And Beth Santos: Okay. Asnath Kessy: the ball started rolling and we were like, okay, yes, let's get serious and start going. But, it was not an easy journey. Amanda Kessy: we got so many you cannot do's. not seeing many women doing this. So the moment they see a woman Asnath Kessy: Yeah. Amanda Kessy: trying to step up, they're like, but wait a minute, just for men, how come this woman is trying to do it? How come these women are trying to do this, you know? So for them, it's just like, you cannot do it because they've not seen it done yet, you know? So we were even having a conversation yesterday Asnath Kessy: Yeah, exactly. Amanda Kessy: and we were saying like, you know, it's important to do these things because it does not only make or benefit us and the people around us, people working for us and stuff like that. But also it could motivate or inspire any other women out there trying to do something in a very male dominant industry as well, you know, just to come out and if they want to do it, just do it. Beth Santos: I wanna take us back to, the early days a little bit, and then let's kind of fast forward because I'm loving these insights that you're sharing. But thinking about this moment when you decided to start this business, I'm so curious, like what did your dad say? Because your dad has had been in this business. So I imagine like what did he tell you when you were like, you know what, we're gonna start our own safari company? Was he excited Amanda Kessy: So. Beth Santos: or was he scared? Or was he like, don't do it? It's terrible. Or was he like, go forth, my young girls? Like, what did he say to you? Amanda Kessy: we are daddy's girls and we know for sure anything comes rain comes storm we've got their backs like they're always cheering for us. So I am the one who faced him and told him that we're doing this and the one thing he said was that he is so proud, he is so excited and anything he's got our back. So those were the only words he said. So I know every day, every time when he keeps seeing how the business is growing, how businesses keep coming in, he gets even more excited and proud. Beth Santos: it sounds like they've both continued doing that and that's amazing. I have to imagine Amanda Kessy: Yes. Beth Santos: that he was scared. I have to imagine that he was like, I've Amanda Kessy: So. Beth Santos: gone, you know, like this is not an easy industry, I've gone through this, now I'm putting my Amanda Kessy: Yes. Beth Santos: own daughters through this, and they're up against a lot because everyone's telling them they can't do it. Like he had to have been Amanda Kessy: That's what we thought would have happened, but we are even so grateful Beth Santos: He was like Amanda Kessy: that it didn't happen that way. He just told us that, you've got my back, you can do this and keep going. if you go to my mum now and tell her that you want to do something but you don't think you can do it, she's going to say, so you want to do this, yes, but you don't think you can do it, yeah. But some other people are doing this thing that you want to do and they are doing it right, yes. And these people, tell me about them. Do they have, are they any different from you? Do they have three eyes or four? Do they have five hands? Do they have like, what's the difference between you and them? They are human beings like you are what is it that is so special about them that makes you feel like you cannot do anything so You you should never tell my mom that you cannot do anything because she's gonna be like, how come other people are doing it? what is the problem here? If you want to do something Beth Santos: my god. Amanda Kessy: So that's how we've always been doing it like we want to do something we go for it. So it's like We keep motivating each other, we keep inspiring each other, we keep telling each other that you can do it, you've got this, I've got your back. We are believers, we are Christians, so we believe our parents pray for us, we pray as well for ourselves and for them. So at least we have that support system that comes from our families and more again from our husbands. Both I and Asnath are blessed with partners that support our journey. support whatever we are building. Yes, they know it's something different, it's a different niche, it's something that probably they didn't see coming. But even for me to have the leap of faith of saying, now I'm stepping off my employer from my employment and starting off something, it's because of... also the support that I got from my husband. know, like you can do this, go for it, Beth Santos: Mm. Amanda Kessy: go to your dreams. So sometimes we just sit together and we're like, you know what? No, we are grateful for these people because otherwise for most people in in our culture, it could have been different, Asnath Kessy: we must say also having our dad who has been in the industry, we have a bit of a cheat code. Like at times we're Beth Santos: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Asnath Kessy: not sure about anything and we're like, are these guys taking us for a ride? So we call daddy. So I think that is also a blessing Beth Santos: So great. Yeah, he's your best advisor. Asnath Kessy: we have. Amanda Kessy: Yeah. Asnath Kessy: Yes, we are like, we got this race and these guys. is this how it goes and everything. we did not start from nothing. We had a stepping stone as in like, of a man who has had experience in that and everything. So, and then also Arusha is a small town and everything, like the people who know like, these are somebody's daughters and there's also that thing is like, you can't cheat them. The dad has been in the industry. So they know we will go to him. And I was like, is this how it's done? And because you Beth Santos: I love that. Asnath Kessy: find that so much, which is unfortunate, everybody's trying to make something out of somebody. So if you're new, you don't have enough information. Yeah, something that goes for a hundred dollars, That service can be given to you to 250. And you think that's the great price. There goes it. And you Beth Santos: Sure. Asnath Kessy: know how that affects because that it's given as yes, it's a markup of 150. That markup is what we're going to charge our client, which now will look expensive. the counter effect and everything. And I'm like, we can't sell more because they're like, OK, we are expensive. So it's that which we also still experience that. And it's something that I think is a challenge, which is still trying to figure out getting our pricing, you know, getting our pricing right. getting the right vendors. If you are new in the industry, not to find partnerships with the right vendors, getting good pricing. So this award Beth Santos: Yeah. Asnath Kessy: is also a blessing because like that has you people trust you more knowing that you have won the Bessie Award. So you are recognized. It's something that we really don't take for granted and it has helped us and we pray and we hope that this will also encourage other women to get into the industry and we say it, we want more women. We are not gatekeepers. We want more women to join in the industry and not only maybe like directors or owners of companies, like more, we're looking more guides, know, more driver, female drivers, more translate female translators. then, cause there is a lot that you can get involved with within the tourism industry. Beth Santos: what what's making your tours different. I mean, you could have said, Hey dad, I wanna join the business and you know, do this with you, but you didn't. You decided you wanted to start your own company. What's what is different that you're offering? That maybe you haven't seen in the safari industry. Amanda Kessy: I think what makes us stand out is that unlike many companies, we do not... We do not sell just itineraries. We customize itinerary to every client. We believe that every client or every person that comes to us is different. when we start advising the clients, let's say a client comes in and they want to come to Tanzania on a safari, we don't just say, hey, this is a five-day safari, this is 10-day safari, have a look and let me know which one works for you. No, no, no. We first ask for a meeting. this person. We get to understand who this person is, if they're traveling as a group, what this group is all about. Is it about wellness? Is it about vegan? Like we recently hosted a vegan group I was telling you about. We are soon going to be hosting a group of women in photography. These are all women photographers. Beth Santos: Fun. Amanda Kessy: who are going to be joining this group. we tailor-made the itineraries based on who exactly is coming, right? And then again, because we Beth Santos: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Amanda Kessy: are on the ground, no one could know about our country better than we do. So say someone comes in and they're like, we just want to be on a safari, but they do not know anything. there only know perhaps of the Serengeti, but there's so many other national parks in Tanzania. So we'll guide them accordingly. And one of the most important thing that we usually like to include in every itinerary is the cultural experience part. Because we feel like this part is mostly forgotten, but again, very important. Beth Santos: Mm. Amanda Kessy: When I get feedback mostly from the clients at end of the trip, Their take away is always the cultural part. we've been doing clean water projects whereby we visit a place whereby we get the ceramic water filter buckets, you know, and then we go to a village, we pinpoint a village that has not been reached that people are still drinking water from the same spots that the animals are drinking from. So we go there, we handle them these the ceramic water filters and the joy that comes to both the receivers and the givers. So they talk to the locals, at least they get to see them actually drinking from that water. Pregnant women, old women, children, name it, you know. So it's a reward. It's a reward. It's a beautiful feeling. Yeah. Beth Santos: This I I think one of the things that I I I love all these examples and I think a couple of the things that's really standing out for me. One of course is the fact that you're very intentionally investing in other women owned businesses and kind of citing that, like not just thinking about, you know, women owned safari companies, but also like women translators, women guides, women, you know, any kind of supplier. But but also one thing that really stands out that I think is interesting is and I used to fun fact about me, I used to work in international development before I went into like the travel world. And and in the international development world, one of the things that we talk about a lot is how investing in women has systematically been a better way to invest in a local economy. And there's statistics Amanda Kessy: you Beth Santos: about that. Like there's a study from the Harvard Kennedy School that said that women Amanda Kessy: you Beth Santos: Will reinvest up to 90% of their income into their families and their communities, but only 30 to 40% for men. So, like when Amanda Kessy: Mm-hmm. Beth Santos: you give money to a woman, you are directly impacting a local economy. And that goes for Amanda Kessy: preacher. Beth Santos: women-owned businesses, that goes for hiring women. And I think you're kind of without saying it so directly, I think that's kind of what you're also saying, too, is that, you know, this is an industry that a lot of people Have kind of in the past sort of been like, okay, I'm gonna go to Tanzania, I'm gonna go do my safari, and then I'm getting out. And what you're suggesting is Amanda Kessy: Mm-hmm. Beth Santos: a much more immersive experience that not just, about going to a place and having that safari experience, but is also really about. understanding and embedding yourself in the culture and immersing yourself and getting to know the place and getting to know the people. And I think that makes a very big difference. what do you think it will take for women to be more involved in the safari industry? What will it take? What do we need from the industry to see that happen? Asnath Kessy: Seen one, seeing more female owned companies, is one, like seeing is believing. And then remove the barriers that for the women as in creating an environment where women are welcome from like the different policies or organizations for tourism within Tanzania and everything. They should be more open like you see, cause it starts from the ground as in like training, going back to the university, the training centers for the guides and like the percentages is low. So you cannot tell me like there you have a percent, 90 % is male people who are joining into our life or tourism industry. And then they come into the industry. Obviously you won't have more women to play like even as we struggled Beth Santos: Right. Asnath Kessy: to look for women to play, but that is not given. even from schools, like telling them, telling girls that they can be in this industry. It's not just a male. So you need to start from the grassroots. need to start from the foundation Beth Santos: Mm. Asnath Kessy: as in there that this is not a male only dominant industry. So you start from the grassroots and then coming up. Because like you cannot start in the end because like in the end, but you. People are coming out of college from tourism and everything, but you have more males than females. So how is Beth Santos: Yeah. Asnath Kessy: that going to help me? Even I want to employ more women, but no, there are no more women with this expertise. They're mostly male. So I need to go back to the foundation. So yeah. Beth Santos: What's keeping women from from going into those schools right now? Is it just culture? Is it money? Asnath Kessy: Like Beth Santos: when are you gonna start speaking at schools? When are you starting your speaking circuit? Asnath Kessy: Right? We should. Yeah, we should. That should be the way to go. Yeah. Amanda Kessy: That's a good idea Beth, we should look into that. in the culture here there's some things that are clearly known that these are for men, these are for women. Like this is a man's job, this is a woman's job. That's why you'd still find today if I'm driving around and cruiser or I'm with the female guides we're driving around, it's a showstopper. Like people will be like, hey, it's a woman. You know, it's still a thing. Yes, they're cheering because they're like, wow, it's a woman. The kids will stop around and just to make sure they're seeing what they're seeing. Are they seeing right? Is it truly a woman driving that safari vehicle? It's not a man. So it still comes as a shock or as a surprise, I would say, but it's still also with the culture thing. Beth Santos: Yeah, it's it's funny you say that because when I in my very early days of Wanderful I was living in Sao Tome and Principe, which is a two island nation off the west coast of Africa, off the coast of Gabon. I was working at a middle school and I was teaching computer science you're talking about people kind of like laughing and cheering you on when you're driving. That was my experience riding my motorcycle. People would laugh and they would go. "motoqueira!" which means motorcycle taxi. They're like motor woman motorcycle taxi driver, pick me up, you know? one would call it benign sexism. it wasn't like malintent, it wasn't mean, but it it definitely highlighted the fact that this was an unusual sight and not something that people Amanda Kessy: Yes. Beth Santos: saw every day and and it stood out. And I think to your point, like the the uniqueness of that, we have to make this less unique. You know, once we can make it more commonplace, that's when this Amanda Kessy: you Beth Santos: barrier starts to break down. is people realize, Amanda Kessy: Yeah. Beth Santos: this isn't just the one You don't wanna be the one woman running running a safari company. You wanna be one of many and that's when you know that the ceiling has really broken. Amanda Kessy: Yes. Beth Santos: for anyone who's listening who's thinking, maybe I should start my own business, whether they live in Tanzania, whether they're in South Africa like you are Asnoth, whether they want to go into safari industry or just travel and tourism in general, what would you What would you say to that person? Amanda Kessy: The sun is too bright to shine on everyone. The secret is just to start. know, starting is always the craziest part. When Asnath Kessy: Just that. Amanda Kessy: you just start, things will align, the stone will start rolling, and then life will keep happening. So just start. That's what I'll say. Asnath Kessy: just start Beth Santos: Just start. Asnath Kessy: with whatever you have. just start and then you'll learn as you go. But start, do not delay the start. Beth Santos: Thank you both so much for taking the time today. I really appreciated having this conversation. I can't wait. We've got a Wanderful trip coming up with you. And you know we have a second one. We have a second one that we're working on because that sold Amanda Kessy: Yay! Beth Santos: out so fast. Asnath Kessy: wow! Beth Santos: Yep, we do. So it's we're I think there's a a long relationship to come and I really look forward to being able to support you all and just huge fan of your work. Amanda Kessy: Yes. Thank you so much, Asnath Kessy: That's amazing. Beth Santos: Thank you for being here today. Amanda Kessy: Thank so much, we appreciate. Thank you for having us. Thank Asnath Kessy: We appreciate you, Bay. Amanda Kessy: you to all the listeners. Please check us out on our website. Sign up on the second group trip coming from Wanderful to Tanzania. And you can always learn more from our social media handles, our Instagram, TikTok and Facebook. And we are looking forward to welcoming you all to Tanzania and showing you all about everything our beautiful country has to offer. Beth Santos: Amazing. Thanks. Amanda Kessy: Thank you. Asnath Kessy: Thank you Beth. Beth Santos: Well, everyone, the sun is bright enough for all of us. I I don't know about you, but if there is one takeaway, that is absolutely it. I loved having this conversation with two women who are so changing the landscape, not just for the safari industry, but for women business owners worldwide. The sun is bright enough to shine on all of us. So if you are Thinking about that new opportunity or that new business. If you're wondering if you're unique enough, if you're special enough, if you're different enough, you absolutely are. I hope this episode changed the way you see the world. I hope we can get more women in travel, more women included in the stories that make travel special. I'm looking forward to catching you on our next episode. We'll be talking with another incredible Bessie Award winner. Stay tuned. And until then. Keep adventuring, be safe, and have fun. Thanks for being here. everyone, the sun is bright enough for all of us. I I don't know about you, but if there is one takeaway, that is absolutely it. I loved having this conversation with two women who are so changing the landscape, not just for the safari industry, but for women business owners worldwide. The sun is bright enough to shine on all of us. So if you are Thinking about that new opportunity or that new business. If you're wondering if you're unique enough, if you're special enough, if you're different enough, you absolutely are. I hope this episode changed the way you see the world. I hope we can get more women in travel, more women included in the stories that make travel special. I'm looking forward to catching you on our next episode. We'll be talking with another incredible Bessie Award winner. Stay tuned. And until then. Keep adventuring, be safe, and have fun. for being here.