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The Tigers are down bad. Is their season beyond saving? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:12
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network Detroit Tigers podcast. I'm Kierri Stugli
0:15
Speaker 1: with me as always as a man who prefers his
0:17
Speaker 1: deep dish soup free.
0:20
Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How we doing doing all right, Kieren?
0:24
Speaker 3: The Detroit Tigers are very bad, very bad baseball team.
0:29
Speaker 3: I mean that any evidence of that, or yeah, it's
0:33
Speaker 3: going four and twenty one in your last twenty five games.
0:36
Speaker 3: That's really hard to do. It's tough to be that bad.
0:38
Speaker 3: That goes beyond injuries, that goes beyond you know, if
0:42
Speaker 3: fans or butts or little managerial decisions or you know,
0:45
Speaker 3: plays that weren't quite executed. Like this is just all
0:48
Speaker 3: around terrible right now. So we have to try to
0:52
Speaker 3: make sense of that, sort that out, make it sound interesting.
0:55
Speaker 3: It's getting it's getting tough.
0:58
Speaker 1: Well, look, it's it's tough to talk about, but it's
1:01
Speaker 1: tough to talk about because it's a tough watch the
1:04
Speaker 1: month of May.
1:05
Speaker 2: The best thing I could say about the.
1:06
Speaker 1: Tigers in the month of May is that, thank God
1:11
Speaker 1: May is not thirty two days, because in the month
1:14
Speaker 1: of May, the Tigers were six and twenty two. And
1:17
Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just throw some counting numbers here, because
1:21
Speaker 1: I think a lot of focus is gonna go on pitching.
1:23
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that today. And you know, MANAGERI old
1:27
Speaker 1: decisions and this that the other thing. But here here's
1:29
Speaker 1: some just like bottom line stuff here, Cody, if you
1:32
Speaker 1: go to the splits of this team thus far, and
1:34
Speaker 1: this is coming into today, so not even taking into
1:37
Speaker 1: account what we watched here on Sunday in April. Plus
1:42
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of games in March the Tigers
1:45
Speaker 1: bat at two fifty they had a seven forty four
1:48
Speaker 1: ops thirty three home runs like so so to pretty
1:53
Speaker 1: good in a lot of areas. Here's May two o
1:57
Speaker 1: seven bating average'st an OPS of six oh two and
2:05
Speaker 1: only eighteen home runs, And I'll throw in there they
2:09
Speaker 1: struck out two hundred and sixty two times in April
2:12
Speaker 1: slash March in May two forty five. So if you
2:18
Speaker 1: feel like you've been watching a lot of low scoring
2:20
Speaker 1: offensive output games this month, it's it's not just something
2:24
Speaker 1: that your mind's playing tricks on you. That's exactly what
2:27
Speaker 1: has been going on. And it goes beyond injuries. It
2:30
Speaker 1: goes beyond a lot of stuff, although obviously injuries play
2:33
Speaker 1: a part of it, and we'll talk about at least
2:34
Speaker 1: some good news that happened today in terms of getting
2:37
Speaker 1: somebody back. But the bottom line is this iteration of
2:41
Speaker 1: the Tigers, as I've said, is just a bad baseball team.
2:44
Speaker 1: The record reflects that, the numbers reflect that, and I
2:47
Speaker 1: would argue the sequencing, the play making, for lack of
2:54
Speaker 1: better terms, reflects that as well.
2:56
Speaker 2: And I think we saw that Friday.
2:58
Speaker 1: Night with with the you know, with the walk off
3:01
Speaker 1: the game time run against Chicago.
3:03
Speaker 4: There.
3:03
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of mechanics there, So why
3:06
Speaker 1: don't we just kind of go there right now, Cody,
3:08
Speaker 1: because I thought I thought that was a fascinating, very
3:11
Speaker 1: quick sequence of events. There, runners on the corners, one
3:15
Speaker 1: out bunt, Finnigan fields. It doesn't look I'm just gonna
3:18
Speaker 1: quickly summarize here, doesn't look at the runner at third
3:21
Speaker 1: at all. It was halfway down the bag, throws the
3:23
Speaker 1: first Tork out of first base. Tork makes a bad
3:27
Speaker 1: throat to home. Run scores probably would have scored anyway,
3:31
Speaker 1: but run scores runner runner from first advances to third.
3:34
Speaker 2: So a lot there, Cody.
3:37
Speaker 1: Where's the lead of this play that ended up tying
3:40
Speaker 1: the game and of course ended up resulting eventually in
3:43
Speaker 1: a Tigers loss.
3:45
Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot. I watched that play about twenty times.
3:48
Speaker 3: I watched it from the overhead view, and there were
3:51
Speaker 3: a few different breakdowns. It sounds like number one, according
3:54
Speaker 3: to A. J. Hinch, was Kevin McGonagall basically conceding third
3:57
Speaker 3: base charging to field the bunt. Sounded like the way
4:01
Speaker 3: the Tigers teach this is for the third baseman to
4:04
Speaker 3: stay back and pitcher fields anything to the left side
4:07
Speaker 3: of the infield. Any way you want to teach that.
4:11
Speaker 3: The runner at third is what matters. Third base cannot
4:13
Speaker 3: be vacated, cannot be left alone. Somebody has to be
4:16
Speaker 3: at third base, and the Tigers got caught with no
4:19
Speaker 3: one at third base. So it sounds like Kevin McGonagall
4:21
Speaker 3: makes the first mistake. He comes off the bag, or
4:24
Speaker 3: he comes away from the bag, he goes in, which
4:26
Speaker 3: the runner basically follows him to that depth. Kyle Finigan
4:30
Speaker 3: picks up the ball and we all saw it like
4:33
Speaker 3: he gave maybe a quick look and fired to first.
4:38
Speaker 3: Given the importance of that run, that was a mistake.
4:41
Speaker 3: I think it would have been better to simply run
4:43
Speaker 3: the runner back to the bag and get no outs there.
4:46
Speaker 3: I understand you want it out there, but as far
4:50
Speaker 3: off as that runner was, for Finnigan to turn and
4:52
Speaker 3: throw to first, I think was pretty reckless. Obviously, Spencer
4:56
Speaker 3: Torklesen makes a bad throw home. I ranked Spencer Toorglesen
5:00
Speaker 3: probably fourth in terms of most accountable here because it
5:04
Speaker 3: would have been it had to be a perfect, perfect
5:06
Speaker 3: throw to get them. I'm not even sure a perfect
5:08
Speaker 3: throw gets him. That runner was way down the line.
5:11
Speaker 3: Torque didn't have much of a chance. It just looks
5:14
Speaker 3: ugly when you overthrow home and the other runner it advances.
5:18
Speaker 3: But another thing watching it from the overhead view is
5:21
Speaker 3: Zack Short was playing shortstop and I'm not sure he
5:26
Speaker 3: knew where to be. He wasn't anywhere. It sounds like
5:29
Speaker 3: the way this he wasn't expected to be at third.
5:32
Speaker 3: McGonagall should have been at third. There was a force
5:35
Speaker 3: play at second, and Short wasn't at second either. You
5:38
Speaker 3: see the hitter square to bunt and Shorts shaded up
5:41
Speaker 3: the middle to be fair, and he just kind of
5:45
Speaker 3: comes in a little bit. The bunk goes down and
5:47
Speaker 3: he doesn't break towards second, He doesn't break toward third.
5:49
Speaker 3: He kind of stands there and then he starts going
5:52
Speaker 3: to third when it's it's far too late. I'm not
5:54
Speaker 3: sure there's any world where he could have got to
5:56
Speaker 3: third base based on where he was positioned. But watching it,
6:01
Speaker 3: it didn't seem like he was ready for the bun.
6:04
Speaker 3: It didn't seem like he quite knew where to be.
6:07
Speaker 3: It doesn't make you wonder like if Hovey bias in
6:09
Speaker 3: that game playing short, does Hovey find a way to
6:12
Speaker 3: miraculously get to third and and change the complexion of things?
6:17
Speaker 3: The fact Short wasn't Hobe does second. Yeah, Hobby probably
6:20
Speaker 3: does something. So I didn't love even if shorts job
6:24
Speaker 3: there is to be at second, he should have been
6:26
Speaker 3: on second, and he wasn't doing that. He was a
6:28
Speaker 3: little bit caught in between. So there were a lot
6:30
Speaker 3: of breakdowns on a lot of fronts that led to
6:34
Speaker 3: a critical run scoring. Once again, the White Sox apply
6:38
Speaker 3: some pressure. They do the thing the Tigers of old
6:42
Speaker 3: would have liked to have done, and the Tigers are
6:44
Speaker 3: the team that just can't handle it. They they break
6:46
Speaker 3: down in a lot of different ways, and they and
6:48
Speaker 3: they can't make a play.
6:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, and specific to the torque throw, I would also
6:55
Speaker 1: say that unless it's an egregious throw, it's not gonna
7:02
Speaker 1: really change the net situation all that much, Like it
7:05
Speaker 1: was a bath through runner advances from second to third,
7:08
Speaker 1: but like on a single, most likely that runner scoring anyway.
7:12
Speaker 1: Now you're throwing the wild pitch possibility. Understand all that,
7:15
Speaker 1: But the the high, the roar, the reward of trying
7:20
Speaker 1: to get that runner there is worth trying. Is worth
7:23
Speaker 1: the guy advancing from second to third in my opinion,
7:25
Speaker 1: because that's two outs there that play at first. And
7:28
Speaker 1: also you could argue he was the only one who
7:30
Speaker 1: seemed to care about the run.
7:31
Speaker 2: Because he's the only one to try to.
7:33
Speaker 3: Yeah.
7:36
Speaker 1: So so yeah, just kind of a breakdown all around.
7:39
Speaker 1: I would throw in mcgonagall's lesser experience at third base,
7:46
Speaker 1: did that play likes a part in this as well?
7:48
Speaker 1: And then obviously it's that short as not getting the
7:51
Speaker 1: regular coaching that like a hobby would buy this coaching staff,
7:54
Speaker 1: and and you know, and so like there's like these
7:57
Speaker 1: aren't excuses, these are just like common sense explainers, like yeah,
8:00
Speaker 1: that's probably why, And yeah, that's probably why. And then
8:03
Speaker 1: it adds up to the fact that you have now
8:06
Speaker 1: allowed the game to be tied. And then also I
8:08
Speaker 1: would say, you know, like the Drew Anderson, you know,
8:12
Speaker 1: walk off there because you do get the run, and
8:14
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in extras.
8:16
Speaker 2: AJ kind of going against.
8:17
Speaker 1: The grain a little bit, but you know, it's pretty
8:19
Speaker 1: simple when the change up doesn't change, it's just up,
8:23
Speaker 1: like it's pretty easy to hit.
8:24
Speaker 3: So that's pretty nasty pitch. But you they were going
8:27
Speaker 3: to that well quite aggressively. Was what four straight change ups,
8:30
Speaker 3: and he finally missed with one and it got crushed,
8:33
Speaker 3: I mean, and.
8:34
Speaker 2: Got kind of set.
8:36
Speaker 3: Like Anderson was pitching so well up until that pitch.
8:39
Speaker 3: You know, in a way I kind of felt fell
8:41
Speaker 3: bad for him, but yeah, it is what it is.
8:44
Speaker 3: And that's also where we're at. Like Drew Anderson, we said,
8:46
Speaker 3: are the Tigers going to start using him differently? And
8:49
Speaker 3: sure enough they did. I guess he's a leverage reliever now,
8:52
Speaker 3: except his first two chances to pitch and leverage he failed.
8:56
Speaker 3: So that's unfortunately, you're having to use this guy in
9:00
Speaker 3: settings he's not really done before, not really comfortable in
9:04
Speaker 3: and it's not working.
9:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I get and he just kind of found
9:10
Speaker 1: the weekend of regression if you want to go to
9:13
Speaker 1: what happened on Sunday as well, which we'll talk about
9:15
Speaker 1: as well, And look like if you AJ is kind
9:20
Speaker 1: of taking it in the teeth a little bit on
9:22
Speaker 1: Tigers Twitter right now, and that's just kind of what
9:25
Speaker 1: happens when you go six and twenty two, one of
9:27
Speaker 1: the worst months in franchise history. That that comes with
9:30
Speaker 1: the territory. But you can't accuse him of being overly
9:35
Speaker 1: stubborn because on Sunday he bets Specier Torkolsen all two
9:39
Speaker 1: seven of him in the three hole, and first at
9:42
Speaker 1: bat he gets a line drive double down the left
9:45
Speaker 1: field line, gets the Tigers on the board, gets a
9:48
Speaker 1: base knock later like that's I can't say that he
9:51
Speaker 1: had a bad game. And then bunting for the one
9:56
Speaker 1: run in extras on Friday, I love. Obviously I didn't
10:00
Speaker 1: go look in through every single extra ending game since
10:04
Speaker 1: this rule was implemented, but I have to imagine that's
10:08
Speaker 1: the first time AJ has called on the sacrifice bund
10:11
Speaker 1: to play for the one run as the road team
10:13
Speaker 1: in an extra ending game. So you so if you
10:16
Speaker 1: want evidence of just like trying to do things different
10:20
Speaker 1: to just get an thin win, that would be it
10:25
Speaker 1: right there. So so I don't know if you do
10:27
Speaker 1: you have any thoughts of it?
10:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think I think that's kind of the
10:32
Speaker 3: subtle tension behind all the managerial decisions this weekend and recently.
10:38
Speaker 3: Is it time to pivot from what you normally do
10:41
Speaker 3: given the disaster you have on your hands, or should
10:45
Speaker 3: you stick to your methods, stick to your process. That's
10:49
Speaker 3: kind of a tough uh, like like push and pull there.
10:53
Speaker 3: I don't I don't quite know. I think it's time
10:56
Speaker 3: to probably start changing some things up a little bit.
10:59
Speaker 3: But then I think, Okay, he played for the one
11:01
Speaker 3: run in the in the top of the inning in
11:03
Speaker 3: the tenth inning, which I'm pretty sure he's never done before.
11:05
Speaker 3: I've heard aj Hinch say you have to play for
11:07
Speaker 3: multiple runs in that situation. Now, the Tigers had not
11:10
Speaker 3: scored an extra innings all season. This offense sucks, so
11:14
Speaker 3: he's trying to give his team just a chance maybe
11:18
Speaker 3: and then maybe you can pitch your way out of it. So,
11:21
Speaker 3: based on that logic, I don't hate it. You know
11:23
Speaker 3: it makes sense.
11:24
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, it makes sense Anderson coming up yeah as a
11:28
Speaker 1: pitch like so you think like the one run would
11:31
Speaker 1: be enough.
11:32
Speaker 3: But at the same time, you were fundamentally straying from
11:35
Speaker 3: how you have always managed, from basically what them. I
11:38
Speaker 3: don't know what the math says when your offense as
11:40
Speaker 3: bad as the Tigers Tigers is right now, but straying
11:44
Speaker 3: from kind of probably the more traditional analytical play. You're
11:48
Speaker 3: deviating from what you have always done. So is that
11:51
Speaker 3: a sign of I don't want to say panic, but
11:54
Speaker 3: kind of panic. Is that a sign of managing out
11:56
Speaker 3: of desperation? And is that good? I don't know that
12:00
Speaker 3: I have like the answer because we're going to talk
12:03
Speaker 3: about some other situations. Think back to the Will Vest
12:06
Speaker 3: thing when he was creeping up over thirty pitches, like
12:12
Speaker 3: I think it's time maybe to start having a little
12:14
Speaker 3: bit more feel for the game. And that's actually what
12:17
Speaker 3: aj was trying to do there was feel the game,
12:19
Speaker 3: feel your team, feel the situation. And it didn't work
12:22
Speaker 3: out because Anderson gave up a homer.
12:27
Speaker 2: It didn't work out.
12:28
Speaker 1: That's the twenty twenty six Tigers, especially in the month
12:32
Speaker 1: of May.
12:33
Speaker 2: It didn't work out.
12:35
Speaker 1: All right, we are going to get to some Carry
12:37
Speaker 1: Carpenter updates, and actually he's gonna be our daily dinger.
12:41
Speaker 1: And this is a reminder that Tiger Territory is brought
12:43
Speaker 1: to you by FanDuel. So we talked about it last
12:53
Speaker 1: time Cody carry Carpenter was scheduled for rehab stints in Toledo.
12:59
Speaker 1: He played one game and then two at bats another
13:02
Speaker 1: game and it was soon shipped over to Chicago. He
13:06
Speaker 1: batted fourth in the lineup today. I believe he was
13:09
Speaker 1: one for two. He had a strikeout. Here's the thing
13:14
Speaker 1: about carry Carpenter that we have to kind of set
13:17
Speaker 1: the expectations for right now. And that's why like he's
13:19
Speaker 1: our daily dinger pick here, because there is a lot
13:23
Speaker 1: of pressure on carry Carpenter to be some sort of
13:26
Speaker 1: magic elixir of this offense. And the Detroit Sports Network
13:29
Speaker 1: had a great graphic up. Before carry Carpenter got hurt,
13:33
Speaker 1: the Tigers were middle of the pack in Major League
13:35
Speaker 1: Baseball and slugging percentage and eighth in Major League Baseball
13:38
Speaker 1: and extra base hits. Since carry Carpenter got hurt, twenty
13:42
Speaker 1: ninth in slugging percentage and twenty seventh in extra base hits.
13:46
Speaker 2: Now, it's not that simple.
13:48
Speaker 1: Carry Carpenter comes in and all of a sudden, you're
13:50
Speaker 1: gonna be a middle with some upside offense.
13:54
Speaker 2: But it.
13:57
Speaker 1: Kind of has to feel that way like for a
14:00
Speaker 1: little bit, because there's really no other choice.
14:03
Speaker 2: So I guess, like, are we going.
14:06
Speaker 1: To set up Carry Carpenter for failure if he doesn't
14:09
Speaker 1: kind of deliver a little bit? Because as much as
14:12
Speaker 1: we believe in his upside, there's still like limitations to
14:15
Speaker 1: his game and as of now, the way aj Hinch
14:17
Speaker 1: manages there are limitations to the usage. So what's the
14:20
Speaker 1: right way to kind of view Carry Carpenter as we
14:23
Speaker 1: move forward here?
14:25
Speaker 3: Well, look, getting Carry Carpenter back is a good thing.
14:28
Speaker 3: This is good for a battered and wounded team. But yeah,
14:32
Speaker 3: there's almost like an outsize, disproportionate amount of pressure on
14:36
Speaker 3: him right now, given the stakes, given the circumstances, Carry
14:41
Speaker 3: Carpenter is a very important player for the Tigers. We
14:44
Speaker 3: know how he can change the dynamic of the lineup.
14:47
Speaker 3: We know how he can change the way aj Hinch
14:49
Speaker 3: manages baseball game puts a lot of pressure on the
14:52
Speaker 3: other dugout to navigate the middle. Innings of a game.
14:56
Speaker 3: But it's also worth remembering that in Carry Carpenter's pass
15:00
Speaker 3: five hundred and eighty one major league played appearances so
15:03
Speaker 3: all of last season. In this season, his own base
15:06
Speaker 3: percentages two ninety three, struck out one hundred and forty
15:09
Speaker 3: six times, walked only twenty nine times. Now he does
15:13
Speaker 3: have thirty two homers and what it amounts to one
15:15
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty seven games, So that's pretty good. But
15:18
Speaker 3: beyond the power, success really hasn't been there for Carrie lately.
15:22
Speaker 3: He's had some prolonged droughts. This is one reason I
15:26
Speaker 3: just can't fully blame this team struggles on the injuries.
15:29
Speaker 3: And I am a little I can already predict that
15:32
Speaker 3: end of season press conference or whenever Scott Harris talks publicly,
15:37
Speaker 3: which I'm not sure when that's gonna be, just kind
15:40
Speaker 3: of like, how much are the injuries going to be
15:42
Speaker 3: used as a crutch, how much are the injuries going
15:44
Speaker 3: to be used as an explanation or an excuse for
15:48
Speaker 3: why this organization should keep doing things? The same way
15:52
Speaker 3: is Carry Carpenter when he was healthy this year, he
15:54
Speaker 3: wasn't very good. He just hadn't been very good. And
15:56
Speaker 3: that's just the truth. The Tigers obviously need a Kerry
15:59
Speaker 3: Carpenter who's a lot more discplined than the strike zone,
16:01
Speaker 3: who's taking some more walks in addition to having the
16:04
Speaker 3: great left handed power that he does possess. So it's
16:06
Speaker 3: a little bit of a complicated discussion. This is a
16:08
Speaker 3: good thing, but in reality, the Tigers need Carry to
16:11
Speaker 3: be a lot better than he had been dating to
16:14
Speaker 3: kind of that kind of the second half of last season.
16:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you look at his savant page, and
16:22
Speaker 1: obviously he doesn't qualify for all this stuff, but you
16:24
Speaker 1: can see where the numbers roughly would be exit velo awesome,
16:28
Speaker 1: barrel rate, pretty good, hard hit rate awesome, it's a
16:33
Speaker 1: lot of blue after that. You know, it's a it's
16:36
Speaker 1: i mean, with the six home runs, you could argue
16:38
Speaker 1: it's pretty literally hit and miss, or I should say
16:41
Speaker 1: hit or miss with him so far this year, and
16:44
Speaker 1: so the he was going to have to progress for
16:49
Speaker 1: this team to stay afloat anyway, or to you know,
16:52
Speaker 1: stay around five hundred anyway.
16:53
Speaker 2: Now you're in this hole.
16:55
Speaker 1: He's gonna have to go on a Carry Carpenter hot
16:57
Speaker 1: streak and hope that this time away kind of and
17:00
Speaker 1: just what he had been doing earlier this year kind
17:02
Speaker 1: of takes away like what would be normal season regression
17:06
Speaker 1: you know from him. And these things are, by the way,
17:08
Speaker 1: are kind of unfair that I'm saying, but that's what
17:11
Speaker 1: happens when the team is in the tank right now.
17:14
Speaker 1: And and I would also note that with the way
17:18
Speaker 1: that he's used, like is he gonna how quickly is
17:22
Speaker 1: he gonna be able to get into a rhythm, you
17:25
Speaker 1: know what I mean, if he's gonna get to at
17:26
Speaker 1: bat to day, you know, like if that's gonna be
17:29
Speaker 1: kind of the case here, Like how like you we
17:33
Speaker 1: are conditioned to say it's a good thing when the
17:35
Speaker 1: other team has to use their bullpen arms to get
17:37
Speaker 1: Carry Carpenter out of the game.
17:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of that stuff hasn't really felt great.
17:43
Speaker 1: This year, Cody, and and and so and so that's
17:46
Speaker 1: that's a big piece of it. And I think this
17:48
Speaker 1: is gonna be sort of like a like low key
17:51
Speaker 1: like a reputation stretch here for Carry Carpenter because we
17:56
Speaker 1: we spent a couple of years now kind of talking
17:58
Speaker 1: about like his impact and he can be and all
18:01
Speaker 1: this stuff, and now the team like really needs you
18:03
Speaker 1: to get going. So you're just gonna be kind of
18:05
Speaker 1: like a nice guy to have in a full deck,
18:08
Speaker 1: or you're gonna be closer to a face cards. That's
18:11
Speaker 1: something that I think that we're gonna find out from
18:13
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Speaker 2: All right, coming back here.
19:10
Speaker 1: You know, the corresponding move for for carry Carpenter's activation
19:16
Speaker 1: was gauge workmen going down to Toledo and and look
19:20
Speaker 1: like gauge workmen.
19:21
Speaker 2: I think we could say like.
19:26
Speaker 1: Forty nine ops plus six for thirty eight in his
19:28
Speaker 1: time with the Tigers. Not great, not great, obviously, No,
19:32
Speaker 1: not one of those guys from Toledo. That kind of
19:34
Speaker 1: provides a spark. He did have a moment there in
19:38
Speaker 1: his first his first major league action with the Tigers,
19:42
Speaker 1: So I want to give him credit for that. But
19:44
Speaker 1: another reminder that, you know, it's not as simple as
19:48
Speaker 1: just calling up somebody from Toledo.
19:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great point for as much as I'm
19:53
Speaker 3: kind of like, all right, maybe it's time to bring
19:55
Speaker 3: up Max Anderson, like bringing up the hot hand from
19:58
Speaker 3: Toledo doesn't always actually make you better if your evaluation
20:02
Speaker 3: is not that this player is ready for the major
20:04
Speaker 3: leagues or will be better than your existing options than
20:07
Speaker 3: your you know, the old saying like you're rearranging deck
20:12
Speaker 3: chairs on the Titanic or whatever. Now, I don't know.
20:15
Speaker 3: Sometimes maybe you got to rearrange some chairs. Just give
20:17
Speaker 3: yourself a chance. But yeah, Gauge Workman a little bit
20:21
Speaker 3: of a cautionary tail. He was swinging a great bat,
20:23
Speaker 3: earned his promotion, got up here, did did go yard
20:26
Speaker 3: and otherwise struggled. Was really difficult to watch defensively. Yeah,
20:35
Speaker 3: that's about all I got on the Gauge Workman era.
20:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's let's go to the like the hot
20:43
Speaker 1: button upt hot button topic of today, Cody, And that's
20:47
Speaker 1: speaking of AJ and and decisions. That was a decision
20:50
Speaker 1: to pull cater Montero after six innings. Getting the stats here,
20:55
Speaker 1: what do you have? Two hits, four strikeouts, obviously zero
20:58
Speaker 1: runs and only sixty five pitches through six He was moving,
21:04
Speaker 1: man like he was moving, he was shoving. I thought
21:07
Speaker 1: Jake Rogers called the great game to that point. But AJ,
21:11
Speaker 1: we talked about the variants earlier. This was AJ sticking
21:16
Speaker 1: to guns and it's like this, this deep into the game,
21:19
Speaker 1: this many batters face this, you know, this time through
21:23
Speaker 1: the order, Like got a bunch of lefties coming up,
21:25
Speaker 1: Anderson's been good against lefties.
21:27
Speaker 2: We're bringing in Anderson.
21:30
Speaker 1: And I'll just tell you an exchange I had with
21:34
Speaker 1: my wife, who was working a shift today.
21:36
Speaker 2: She was like, how's the game.
21:37
Speaker 1: I was like, well, scored an early run, Montero's pitching great,
21:42
Speaker 1: but he's out now in Anderson's and she goes, isn't
21:44
Speaker 1: he the one that gave up the home run on Friday? Yes,
21:49
Speaker 1: yes he is, and and we know and the rest
21:52
Speaker 1: is history, as they say. So your thoughts Cody on
21:55
Speaker 1: that decision there, because again you talked about like is
21:57
Speaker 1: it a sign of panic to do things differently?
22:00
Speaker 2: Is a case of doing things the usual way?
22:03
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, it's tough for me to hold AJ's
22:07
Speaker 3: feet to the fire here because again, like when I
22:10
Speaker 3: view one way I normally view managerial decisions is like,
22:14
Speaker 3: can you defend your decision? Was there sound logic behind
22:17
Speaker 3: your decision making? And in this case there mostly was.
22:21
Speaker 3: Montero was going his third time through the order, there
22:23
Speaker 3: was a pocket of left handed batters due up. He
22:26
Speaker 3: had drew Anderson in the pin, who had been pretty
22:29
Speaker 3: nasty against lefties this season. You're trying to hold on
22:32
Speaker 3: to a lead, It's late in the game, so in
22:35
Speaker 3: some ways that adds up. Now, in some ways, what
22:37
Speaker 3: did the numbers really say? Okater been pretty good against
22:40
Speaker 3: left handed batters this year. Six's eighty six ops. I
22:44
Speaker 3: believe even third time through the order, he's been okay,
22:47
Speaker 3: six oh six ops. Hitters have actually gotten to him
22:50
Speaker 3: the second time through the order more than the third
22:53
Speaker 3: time through the order. You look at the pitch count.
22:55
Speaker 3: He was kind of in what's been his danger zone.
22:58
Speaker 3: Hitters have got him tagged pretty good, a three thirty
23:01
Speaker 3: two twenty two batting average one pitch between pitches fifty
23:05
Speaker 3: one and seventy five of the game. Now, on occasions
23:09
Speaker 3: where he's gone deeper, he's been great. When he kind
23:11
Speaker 3: of gets three times through over that seventy five pitch mark,
23:16
Speaker 3: opposing batters only hitting one forty three against him. But
23:19
Speaker 3: he was he was a little bit in that danger zone.
23:21
Speaker 3: You don't feel great about the matchups. You think you
23:23
Speaker 3: have a capable option in the pin, so I get it.
23:27
Speaker 3: At the same time, he was kind of dealing, man,
23:30
Speaker 3: He was kind of dealing. Given where you're at. Although
23:33
Speaker 3: you like Drew Anderson, it's not like you have a
23:37
Speaker 3: lockdown back into your bullpen right now. So should you
23:40
Speaker 3: just rolled cater Montero out there at least given him
23:43
Speaker 3: a base runner, you know something like I certainly understand
23:47
Speaker 3: that argument of it too. It sounds like in most instances,
23:52
Speaker 3: except the extra ending example we talked about earlier, AJ
23:55
Speaker 3: has stuck with his normal process and given the of
24:00
Speaker 3: this team, the composition of this roster, is it time
24:04
Speaker 3: to deviate that and roll with the feel for the
24:06
Speaker 3: game a little more, not be as scripted, not bes
24:09
Speaker 3: as maybe as matchup based. There's an argument for that.
24:13
Speaker 3: I'll give an example. You know what, I don't really
24:15
Speaker 3: have interest in seeing I don't really have interest in
24:18
Speaker 3: seeing how you lee pinch hit for cold Keith. And
24:21
Speaker 3: I've historically defended like the matchup thing because it's worked
24:25
Speaker 3: so well throughout a lot of AJ's tenure. But one
24:28
Speaker 3: thing AJ's always said with that is like, well, it's
24:31
Speaker 3: not about the hitter at the plate being unable to
24:33
Speaker 3: do the job. It's about the strength of the guy
24:35
Speaker 3: on the bench. We don't have a whole lot of
24:38
Speaker 3: evidence that how you lee is a strength off the
24:40
Speaker 3: binge and hit left handed pitching. Like so far in
24:43
Speaker 3: his brief time in the major leagues, he hasn't done it.
24:45
Speaker 3: I think he's in two twenty seven against lefties now. Granted,
24:49
Speaker 3: cold Keith with useless against left handed pitchers last year, Yes,
24:52
Speaker 3: he was good his rookie year. Also against any any
24:56
Speaker 3: handedness in the month of May he wasn't very good.
25:00
Speaker 3: So like, maybe that's just where we're at. Maybe none
25:04
Speaker 3: of your options are ever.
25:05
Speaker 1: But it also place to the thing that I always
25:07
Speaker 1: go to where it's like I understand numbers, I understand matchups,
25:10
Speaker 1: I understand all that stuff, but like you think will
25:15
Speaker 1: over there in the other and the other dugout is like,
25:18
Speaker 1: oh man, he took out cold Keith for how you lee?
25:22
Speaker 3: Like, no, He's like, all right, we can get this
25:27
Speaker 3: freaking guy out at least you know what colts capable
25:30
Speaker 3: of a little bit?
25:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, you bothered by that a damn bit, all right.
25:35
Speaker 1: So sometimes like when you're that predictable, or you're still
25:38
Speaker 1: like when you're that predictable, you're still playing into the
25:42
Speaker 1: hands of the opposing manager, right and that again like
25:45
Speaker 1: that sometimes it's not that simple. But sometimes I can't
25:48
Speaker 1: help but think, like is the other team happy you
25:51
Speaker 1: made this move?
25:53
Speaker 2: Like I'll.
25:55
Speaker 1: Right now. In most cases, the other team is happy
25:58
Speaker 1: when you bring in JAMAI chance. Yeah, like they're like,
26:03
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're okay with that. They're willing to
26:06
Speaker 1: make that sacrifice on their end to ensure that that
26:09
Speaker 1: happens right now. Now, maybe something will happen in the
26:12
Speaker 1: in the and the top comes off, but we just
26:14
Speaker 1: haven't seen it. And at a certain point maybe a
26:17
Speaker 1: change up is necessary. I mean a change up in philosophy,
26:19
Speaker 1: not obviously a Manngerio change, a change up in philosophy
26:23
Speaker 1: where it's like maybe you got to keep your team
26:25
Speaker 1: on your toes on their toes a little bit and
26:26
Speaker 1: it's like you know what, Colt.
26:29
Speaker 3: Take it yeah, and the like I thought, you know,
26:32
Speaker 3: Will Birchfield's interview with Cole Keith was really interesting. That
26:35
Speaker 3: was on the ninety seven to one that ticket website.
26:38
Speaker 3: Cole very measured very professional but basically expressed the difficulties
26:43
Speaker 3: of not playing all that often doing the platoon thing
26:47
Speaker 3: uh dhing like you could read between the lines and
26:52
Speaker 3: be like, oh yeah, like this is can be tough
26:55
Speaker 3: on players, especially a young player. Want yeah, yeah, of
26:59
Speaker 3: course that's what you want to say. So a lot
27:01
Speaker 3: of guys in this class and This is one thing
27:02
Speaker 3: I've been saying for a couple of years now, like
27:04
Speaker 3: as these guys get older, as they near Cole doesn't
27:06
Speaker 3: have to worry about arbitration, but as they have to
27:09
Speaker 3: worry about arbitration, Like, are they suddenly not gonna be
27:12
Speaker 3: so cool with the matchup thing? Or if they stop
27:14
Speaker 3: seeing at work, are they going to stop being so
27:16
Speaker 3: cool with it? Zach McKinstry has been through a lot
27:20
Speaker 3: of that, Kerry Carpenter has been through a lot of that.
27:21
Speaker 3: I wonder if if we're gonna see start seeing more
27:25
Speaker 3: of it. Zach Schwart's playing against a left handed pitcher
27:28
Speaker 3: like we've seen mckinsrey play against lefties before. What happened
27:33
Speaker 3: to that? Is the defensive upgrade really that much better?
27:36
Speaker 3: I have a tough time seeing it that way. So look,
27:40
Speaker 3: it's tough. I get it. I get the the AJ criticism.
27:43
Speaker 3: Everything he does is under the microscope right now because
27:46
Speaker 3: the state of the team. To be honest, a lot
27:48
Speaker 3: of managers would probably not survive this. The mood has
27:51
Speaker 3: gotten really negative. The results have been a train wreck.
27:55
Speaker 3: AJ's well respected, he's one of the best managers in
27:57
Speaker 3: the game. He happens to have signed a contract extension
28:00
Speaker 3: last year, so I don't, you know, I don't think
28:04
Speaker 3: there's gonna be any sort of move there, but like
28:07
Speaker 3: this noise may not be going away given what has happened.
28:11
Speaker 3: It's kind of interesting everyone skipped the whole like get
28:14
Speaker 3: rid of the hitting coaches thing. This year. It's been
28:16
Speaker 3: straight straight to the manager and GMS, Like, I don't know,
28:20
Speaker 3: I firing the hitting coach is normally just a symbolic thing,
28:23
Speaker 3: but it is like, I don't know what this is
28:25
Speaker 3: gonna look like if it continued, if the Tigers were
28:27
Speaker 3: to actually lose one hundred games, and they may not.
28:30
Speaker 3: They may get healthier and start playing better, maybe too
28:33
Speaker 3: late for it to matter, but uh, I don't know.
28:37
Speaker 3: I don't know what the collateral damage, what the fallout is.
28:39
Speaker 3: Right now, this is so bad. It's like someone there's
28:42
Speaker 3: gonna have to be some level of accountability, but I
28:46
Speaker 3: don't think it's gonna be a j and I don't
28:49
Speaker 3: really think it's gonna be Scott giving Chris Silich's history,
28:52
Speaker 3: so I don't I don't know what's going on. And
28:54
Speaker 3: then just like oh, well, you're gonna like change a
28:57
Speaker 3: couple coaches at the end of the season, and that's
28:59
Speaker 3: gonna make you feel better. I don't know what the
29:01
Speaker 3: answer is. It's these are things that are keeping me
29:03
Speaker 3: up at night because it's like, it's not great. It's
29:06
Speaker 3: gotta be really tough on AJ right now. But AJ's
29:09
Speaker 3: in a position where, like he has escaped the heat
29:13
Speaker 3: through a lot of bad times, through a lot of
29:16
Speaker 3: downtimes in his tenure. He's been one of the greatest
29:18
Speaker 3: assets this organization has going for it. But you're now
29:22
Speaker 3: six years in. This season has been a complete train wreck,
29:26
Speaker 3: and like, well, there's only also like so much defense
29:32
Speaker 3: you can you can offer given those circumstances.
29:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we're gonna have plenty of time to
29:40
Speaker 1: discuss like changes and shake ups and this, that the
29:43
Speaker 1: other things. So I don't necessarily want to step on
29:45
Speaker 1: the toes of that when there's still a lot of
29:47
Speaker 1: a lot of games to be played. And I mean
29:48
Speaker 1: that in the sense of a lot of data to
29:50
Speaker 1: be collected. But it's hard to imagine something not resembling
29:54
Speaker 1: a shakeup in some regard, whether it be personnel or otherwise.
29:59
Speaker 2: Happy it this point, but.
30:01
Speaker 3: Like this it's already ugly. Yeah, we're already too ugly.
30:07
Speaker 3: And now it's like, what does what does the downside
30:09
Speaker 3: of ugly? The backside of ugly look like? We may
30:13
Speaker 3: just find out the Tigers. I like to think this
30:16
Speaker 3: team can play a little better, but it's.
30:19
Speaker 2: I don't see it.
30:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'll say this, you know, we'll end on
30:25
Speaker 1: a little bit of a high note here, a credit note.
30:27
Speaker 1: I guess Troy Melton has been excellent. He was excellent
30:30
Speaker 1: on Friday, and and we've kind of hinted at this
30:33
Speaker 1: like decision that will eventually have to be made by
30:36
Speaker 1: the Tigers in terms of their rotation if and when
30:39
Speaker 1: guys do come back healthy.
30:41
Speaker 2: Uh so, let's just say that you were in the room.
30:44
Speaker 1: With aj and you were in the room with christ
30:46
Speaker 1: Fedder and Scott Harris and Jeff and you know all
30:49
Speaker 1: these guys, and it's like, all right, Cody, we need
30:51
Speaker 1: you to bang the table for this guy. He has
30:54
Speaker 1: to be in the rotation no matter what. Cater Montero
30:57
Speaker 1: or Troy Melton, who are you banging the table for?
31:01
Speaker 3: My services are available they ever want any advice. Cater Montero,
31:06
Speaker 3: he deserves a lot of credit for his outing. Whether
31:08
Speaker 3: he got pulled or not. He pitched like a guy
31:10
Speaker 3: competing competing for a spot, putting some pressure on maybe
31:14
Speaker 3: his other rotation mates. I love that, especially in this point,
31:19
Speaker 3: like see a little fire from someone someone who has
31:22
Speaker 3: reason to be motivated. That's great. That should rub off
31:24
Speaker 3: on everybody a little bit. But if I had to
31:26
Speaker 3: bang the table for one guy, be Troy Melton, the
31:29
Speaker 3: upside might just be pretty high with him. This is
31:32
Speaker 3: a guy who you want to be a member of
31:34
Speaker 3: your rotation for years to come. This is not someone
31:39
Speaker 3: I want jerking back and forth from the bullpen and
31:41
Speaker 3: the rotation and getting them hurt like you did last year.
31:45
Speaker 3: Melton is pretty important, not just this season, but for
31:48
Speaker 3: the future of this franchise, and maybe cater Montero is
31:52
Speaker 3: as well. But if you're asking me to pick one,
31:54
Speaker 3: I'm gonna pick, I'm gonna pick Troy Melton. If you're
31:58
Speaker 3: asking me to pick cater Montero or Flaherty, you can
32:02
Speaker 3: probably guess what I'd picked there.
32:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on Melton. Melton's a He's a
32:10
Speaker 1: guy that The list is small in terms of just
32:14
Speaker 1: you know, this season and certainly beyond given the state
32:18
Speaker 1: of the rotation, But this season, the list is small
32:20
Speaker 1: of guys that I feel confident like put it given
32:23
Speaker 1: the ball to in any given game ahead of him,
32:27
Speaker 1: like on this Tiger's team, like it's it.
32:29
Speaker 2: Might just be schoobl and Mize and and Melton.
32:33
Speaker 1: And that's with respect to Montero, who coming into today
32:36
Speaker 1: was a one point one war guy. Melton just a
32:40
Speaker 1: couple starts in zero point seven war. So like we
32:43
Speaker 1: might we might kind of see like some sort of
32:45
Speaker 1: ascension with him that that we are going to recognize
32:51
Speaker 1: and the rest of baseball might have to be like, yeah,
32:53
Speaker 1: the Tigers suck, but you see what the hell is
32:54
Speaker 1: going on with this Melton kid? You know, like that
32:57
Speaker 1: might be one of the back season storylines, but we'll
32:59
Speaker 1: crown that as as it comes through anything else. Cody, Oh,
33:04
Speaker 1: I did want to make here's a fun stat real
33:06
Speaker 1: quick before we get out of here. Ken McGonagall nine
33:09
Speaker 1: for nine on stolen bases.
33:11
Speaker 2: How about that?
33:11
Speaker 3: It's like that pretty good player.
33:13
Speaker 2: I thought I thought he.
33:14
Speaker 1: Wasn't speed, like like like you know, like that's that's
33:20
Speaker 1: impressive matter who it is. But Ken McGonagall, no one
33:22
Speaker 1: would have suspected.
33:24
Speaker 3: That in any certainly I had no clue how fast
33:27
Speaker 3: he was until we started getting the data this year.
33:29
Speaker 3: Also the instincts thing, dude has great instincts. I'm sorry
33:32
Speaker 3: to seeing Matt Vieling not not be good on the
33:35
Speaker 3: basis man like math. Viearling is fast and doesn't have
33:39
Speaker 3: the same track record ceiling basis. So some of that
33:43
Speaker 3: is just instinctual getting leads, getting jumps, playing the game,
33:46
Speaker 3: and McGonagall is great at those things.
33:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And we don't talk about him every episode,
33:52
Speaker 1: but we probably should. He's one of the few bright spots,
33:54
Speaker 1: but just one of those random things where it's like
33:56
Speaker 1: Ken McGonagall having a great year. Did you think nine
33:59
Speaker 1: for nine nah would have been on my on my
34:02
Speaker 1: Bengal card. All Right, you guys can follow us on
34:04
Speaker 1: x formerly known as Twitter at Cody Stavenhagen. I'm at
34:06
Speaker 1: Keran Underscore Decley at Tiger Territory. Underscore is the show page, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, subscribe,
34:14
Speaker 1: five star review if you feel so inclined. We appreciate
34:17
Speaker 1: all of you, so for Cody Staveenhagen, I'm Karen Steckley. Everybody,
34:20
Speaker 1: have a great day.