Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Is Pick-up Artistry Dead in the Era of MeToo? With Matt Cross | Fireside Chat 282

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Is Pick-up Artistry Dead in the Era of MeToo? With Matt Cross | Fireside Chat 282 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: and welcome back to Honey Badger Radio. My name is Brian,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: and this is the Fireside Chat, and today we are
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: talking with the dating coach and pickup artist, Matt Cross,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: host of the 33 Secrets. So, welcome to the show, Matt.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: It's really good to see you again. Hey, Brian.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Nice to see you, too. It's been a while.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: So....
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: First of all, like what we were talking a little
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: bit before the show started. And I was just saying
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: that we don't get a lot of PUA types on.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: And it's not, again, it's not because we have an
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: issue with them. I think that there's a lot of
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: value in what you guys do. But we just don't, they're,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: first of all, they're not really on YouTube that much.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Like they're not like, you know, doing the social media
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: thing often. And a lot of times they're just sort
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: of like, you know, selling content. classes or something like
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: that and we like to get into some of the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: different you know the sort of like the uh social
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: dynamics aspect of it and uh so you know i
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: i was obviously i i uh hosted the show you
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: did with paul elam and i thought oh i really
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: like some of the stuff this guy's saying i think
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: it'd be good to have him on our show so
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: welcome to the.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Show okay well hey thanks for having me all of
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: a sudden my my camera went a little blurry but
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: i don't know.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah it it i think it'll should adjust itself.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of camera you have, but
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: there's also some video settings you can maybe play with
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: in here, but I wouldn't mess with these. I think
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I'd just use the settings on your camera. Coming back.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Like, whatever I move really close, there it goes.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay. All right, there it goes. All right,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: so let's talk a little bit about what you do,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: if you don't mind. You have a book coming out. Yep.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And I want to talk a little bit about the book.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: It's called The Last Pickup Artist, I think.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and what is the... First of all, you've got
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: other books as well. Tell us a little bit about
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: what it is that you write about and what this
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: book is about specifically.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: So this book is... This book, unlike my... I don't
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: even know if you want to call them books, but
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: they're more like courses that I sell for social dynamics
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: and obviously how to talk to women because I teach pickup.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: So that's that's how we make our money. But this
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: is more autobiographical about just my journey with moving to L.A.,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: how I got involved with the pickup stuff and how.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: But it goes beyond just, you know, like I don't
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: know if you remember, Neil Strauss had a book called
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: The Game. So this goes beyond all that. And it's
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: more into just the red pill, the female nature and
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: just my own discoveries with it. The backlash I got
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: from the POA community, the backlash I got from red
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: pillars with just exposing this information and just my own
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: journey with women and just. I mean. Kind of like
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: the dirty behaviors of female nature that I discovered and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: that a lot of anybody who teaches pickup and dating
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: long enough will discover themselves. But then you're faced with
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: this conflict like, okay, if I start talking about this stuff,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I don't sell programs. I don't sell boot camps. Who's
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: going to want to come if they know women are
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: like this? I mean, if you look at most of
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: the comments on my YouTube videos now, A lot of
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: guys are done with dating and I get that. And
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: it's like, OK, well, for you guys who still want
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: to have a family and whatever, I'll teach you how
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: to do it. But but at least you're coming in with,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: you know, understanding what the pitfalls of what you're getting
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: yourself involved with. So so this book is primarily an
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: autobiography and it's set to come out in July.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I think July 4th is, I think, what you had. Yeah. Set.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if it's set in stone,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: but that's what I saw.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought it was a great date
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: for Independence Day 2028. And yeah, I'm hoping to complete
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: it by then because I'm still out there, obviously. I'm
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: still doing game and pickup. I never thought I'd still
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: be doing it this age. And I'm still just accumulating
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: more of these crazy nonsensical stories with female behavior and
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: what they respond to and And, yeah.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I want to, yeah, let's get into a little bit
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: of that. But before that, I couldn't help but latch
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: on to when you said you have had some, like,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: I guess some tensions or some disagreements with the red
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: pill space and the pickup artist space. So, like, what
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  Speaker 1: was that about? And I'm not saying this to be
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: all salacious, like, ooh, spill the tea. But I'm just
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: curious if it's, like, a philosophical difference or whatever it was.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, as far as the Red Pill community? Oh, a
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: lot of them were mad because they felt like I
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: was just like piggybacking on what they were saying or,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: you know, as a term like grifting. And it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And it's like, OK, I don't sell Red Pill programs.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I don't have a Red Pill book. I don't have like.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I can understand university or anything like that. Yeah.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I can understand if I was selling that stuff. Great,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: you know, and I've done well financially thanks to selling
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: a lot of pickup programs back in the day. And
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: so that's where I make my money. I don't make
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: it from teaching red pill. I mean, it's actually detrimental
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: to my business. So the only reason- What's the.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Difference between what you are teaching and what the red
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: pill teaches?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Well, not much, not much. The only difference is I'm
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: actually living these experiences. I'm actually going out there and
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing it night after night after night. Well, anytime
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: I go out, I see it constantly, you know, and
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: it's like, okay, I'm just talking about my experiences and
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: they can, they can articulate it much, much better than I,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: because a lot of them are book writers. So they
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: are very articulate. They're very good with debates. Um, these guys,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, even though I have the experience, these guys
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: would squash me in a debate, um, because I'm just
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: kind of, uh, you know, uh, a dumb ex jock
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  Speaker 2: POA that talks about this stuff. And all I can
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: do is tell you from my experience and what, Oh,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: and what guys are experiencing from guys that I coach.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, guys that come to me with their relationships,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: their marriages, their divorces, what they're going through the family
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: courts and everything. I mean, I didn't even know anything
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: about the family courts. I've never been married. And so
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I've learned so like a great wealth of information just
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: from coaching guys, as well as my own experiences, just,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: approaching thousands and thousands of women, dating women. And, you know,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: it's insane the amount, the wealth of knowledge I've accumulated
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: from based on experiences. So that's all I talk about.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I don't, yeah, I don't write books on this stuff.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And well, you know, it's interesting because I
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: think that what you seem to be saying in a
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: way is that you are, you have something to offer
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: that is actually like sort of beyond just, like, the
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: tools to, like, pick up women, right? It's more like
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: the social dynamics could apply to men as well kind
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: of a thing. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, I get guys who are actually married who
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: jump into my programs just because they want to learn
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: how to re-attract their wife or they feel like they're
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: losing their wife, their attraction. They feel like they're heading
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: towards the end of, like... where she's about to start
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  Speaker 2: exploring her options. So I help him to just kind
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: of reel her back in because if they have kids,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: you know, that's always bad if, uh, the kids end
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: up with a mom.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you say that you're still learning things. Um,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: what are, what are some of the like more recent
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: revelations you've had?
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  Speaker 2: Um, I mean, I don't know if I would say
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: learning things. It's just, I keep seeing repeats of the
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: same behavior, but it just seems like it's gotten worse
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: over the last, definitely over the last five years. I've
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: definitely seen a change as far as like women's.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: And what do you mean by worse?
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Let's put it this way. Their inflation of their own
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: sexual marketplace value, their own what they think they deserve
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: versus what the market is willing to give them. Cause
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: anybody can think you deserve a new Ferrari, you know,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: or a new Rolls Royce, but if you don't have
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: the funds to go get it, then you likely don't
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: deserve it. You know, it may be that money. Maybe
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: you deserve, a used Camry and not the Ferrari. But
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: their mindset is like, I deserve the Ferrari. Why can't
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: I go to the dealership? I don't get to walk
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  Speaker 2: off with it, Chad.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Hey, I have a used Corolla, so you know.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: But I'm married now, so it doesn't matter.
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  Speaker 2: It's not red, is it? No, no.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: It's black. Blue-black thing. I don't know. It's 2019, though.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: It's not bad. But anyway, so, yeah, like this is
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the it seems like that is a thing. Now, how
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: much of that just out of curiosity, because we have
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: talked about on this show a lot, how especially with
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: this very this new young generation of women, the what
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: they expect out of a man. is, seems to be
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: at least on the surface. So beyond the pale that,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: you know, my, the, one of the other people I
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: work here with is always saying it would take like
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: two and a half earth's worth of material goods to
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: satisfy those women. Like what they want is so far
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: outside of the bounds of what's possible. But I often
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: ask myself how much of that is just, and I
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: know this is going to sound derogatory, but I don't
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: know how else to put it, girl math. You know,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: when women say, I want a man that's 6'5 or something,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: but really they're probably just fine if the guy's taller
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: than them and they're just throwing that number out there.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like what the money they expect. Like
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: have you, is, am I being naive? Is they, are
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: they actually like legit asking for that?
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, so what they're asking for versus what they get
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: are always two different things. So just speaking of guys
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: I've coached and their experiences with divorce court and family attorneys,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: from what I've learned, it's kind of the same mental
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: process where they say, when you go through a divorce,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: if they're representing the wife, they will just check all
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: the boxes and try to get the house, the cars,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: and everything they can, the shirt off your back. Doesn't
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: mean they're going to get all that, but they want
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: to check all the boxes and then walk away with
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: as much of that uh, Christmas shopping list as possible.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: So when it comes to women, yeah, of course, like
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: six foot six.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: $ 3 million a month in income and all this other stuff. And, uh,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: but a lot of these women will settle for, uh,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: a lot less, um, a lot less. Yeah. A lot less.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm often the, the oldest, the shortest and, um, Yeah,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: usually the oldest, shortest guy that these women date. I mean,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not that short. I'm like 5'10, 5'11, like in
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: between there.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: That's like my height, yeah.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. But a lot of these women, they always say, like,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I've never dated a guy under six feet tall. I'm like, really? Okay, well,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: how's it feel?
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Do you know if the– you were talking about how
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: much tougher it's gotten, especially in the last five years–
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Has that affected your your audience? Like, do you not
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: have as many men looking for, you know, help with
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: game and and this kind of thing? Are they are
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: they just checking out?
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I would say most guys have left. I
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: would say most guys have are just not not wanting
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: to learn this stuff. I mean, I remember at my
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: peak of teaching this stuff, I had like over. at
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: least over a thousand in one of my recurring like
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: monthly membership programs where these guys basically get lessons per
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: month for how to cold approach, pick up dating and
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: all that. And I still get guys in that program.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: It's just not like it was before. And I'm okay
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: with that. You know, because this is just the nature
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: of the beast, you know?
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Guys are just, and it's really due to, women's really, really,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: really terrible conduct, I guess. But yeah, and in a way,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: it's kind of a double edged sword. Because I've told
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: you guys on the other side of the spectrum, just
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: to play devil's advocate, I've never seen just such a
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: blue ocean of opportunity to pick up, meet and date women.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So this is why I feel like now it's almost
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: like I do feel like I'm in control of the matrix.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: When I go to a nightclub, or I go to
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: a venue, or I go into a bar, I feel
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: like I just own it because nobody is doing a
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: game anymore. Like back in the day, it's like, everybody's like,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: you know, just like pushing you out of the way
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: to talk to a girl. And I mean, it was,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: it was crazy behavior back then. And I kind of
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: missed that competition. That used to irritate me before, but
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: now I kind of missed that. It was like, now
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: it's almost too easy. I'm like, okay, you're making it
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: too easy guys. You know, you're on your phones and
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: then the women's are on the, the women are on
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: their phones too. And I get it. It's like the new,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: this new generation, especially they're just glued to their phones.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: They don't want to interact at all. So when you
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: start talking to them, they're like, Whoa, you're talking to me.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: What the, you know?
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess that, I guess that is a factor.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Although I'm not sure that it's like, I don't know.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know that it's the whole picture,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: but it's like a big, big thing. Are the, are the, um,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: so you're still going out and are you just going
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: out to pick up women? Are you sort of like
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: just making sure that you're, uh, like say tools are
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: still calibrated correctly. Is that like the purpose or are you,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: are you looking for anything?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, no. I mean, at this point, yeah, I
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: just I mean, I was in a relationship for a
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: little over five years and I was strictly just taking
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: guys out for my business and work. And it was
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: just essentially like a job because I was trying to
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: stay loyal to my my chick. And now that that's over,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I feel like, oh, my God, I you know, and
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I feel like I need to do it, you know,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: and Even beyond boot camp, I just enjoy going out
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: by myself. And it's been a really nice experience to
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: just just I don't know, when a man is single,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: you just you re you reengage with yourself again. It's
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: almost like I was telling a good friend of mine
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: this yesterday. I feel like I just came back from
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: space or something. I was in space for five years
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: and now I'm back and I feel great and it
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: feels incredible again. And I just I mean, I'll run
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: a boot camp and I'll be super tired. I'll come
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: home and I'll be like, I want to go out
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: tomorrow night. I just want to go out by myself.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I just want to go. I want to go back
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: out there, you know, and there's no students. I'm not
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: getting paid to do it, you know.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I mean, I don't know where I was going.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. Have you always been like
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: kind of like extroverted or you did you have to
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: learn how to do that?
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: No, no. As a matter of fact, and I've mentioned
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: often before that I'm actually kind of shy. So I, I,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: this is not, I think you'll find that with most
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: pickup bars, they're pretty shy. They're not really, you know,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: it's just that when the lights come on and when
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: we're out there, we come to life and it's like your,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: your alter ego just enters your body and you're just,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: you know, almost like a Clark Kent turning into Superman
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: or something like that. Or, you know, you just feel
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: like you're wearing this, your super suit. Um, But yeah,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: outside of that, I'm pretty introverted. Yeah, I'm usually quiet. Yeah,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty usually pretty quiet.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: So like, okay. So we have a situation where men,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: they're not pursuing as much and the women are starting
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: to notice. They're like, you know, they're asking where have
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: all the good men gone? And I know this is
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: not like brand new. Like this is something we have
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: seen bubbling for a while. But it seems like it's
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: been heavily magnified lately. And I guess what I'm wondering
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: about is, is that in the same way that you
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: were just saying that you tend to be kind of
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: shy and then you sort of like learn to like,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: you know, change into an alter ego for the purposes of,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: you know, getting out there, which I think is good
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: to do. Like I'm not, you know, I don't believe
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: that people should be in their shell. They should get
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: out and interact. Because I think human beings need uh
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: communion with other human beings like we we need it
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: like we need food or water um do you think
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: that your like your specific approaches of things that you
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: teach could also be useful to to help men bond
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: with other men not obviously not romantically i mean like
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to make friends to like get out there because i
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: think that when men are in a social environment with
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: other men they can become more attractive that way as well.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: And I mean, not because that's the goal, like not
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: necessarily to pick up a woman, but if you are,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: you know, out with the boys and you're having a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: good time, I think that you can be more at
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: ease and people will find you more likable. And that
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: might make things easier for you to be, you know,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: approachable to other people. Does that make sense?
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: No, no, it does. It does. But yeah, these, I mean,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: these tools are basically, they're not just, I've always said it,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I've probably benefited more from the pickup stuff that I've learned, uh,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: the tools, the skills, the social mechanics outside of picking
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: up women that I have actually using it to pick
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: up women. Sure. I've been able to date some women
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: far beyond my, what I would normally be capable of.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Um, out of your league.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, well, yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Um, you know, and I'm,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: and I'm not putting myself down, but yeah, definitely out
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: of my league. Uh, they, uh, And I've seen like
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: the guys they dated previously before me and even after me.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I sometimes I'm like, how did I
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: get married? But, you know, but it is what it is. But, yeah,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: the tools and the skills I've been able to use
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: in my business, my business on myself.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: You know, just making guy friends, networking. Yeah. So it
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: definitely beyond that, you could definitely use it to bond
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: with other guys and just kind of also help other guys.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I've noticed that too. It's just like a lot of
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: guys can add value to other guys' lives in some way,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: shape or form. And this is just one of those
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: ways you could add value to it. You know, I'm
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: part of an entrepreneur's group where I've got guys in
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: the group who are making you know, up to a
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: million a month. I'm not making a million a month
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: and they're just phenomenal with it. And they're married, they
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: have kids, but still I can contribute to these guys'
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: lives with what I learned out there as far as
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: like romance and attraction. And they're able to use it
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: at home with their wives. And they're like, hey man,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: that worked. That was incredible. And you know, my wife
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: was all over me and she didn't want to have
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: sex the last six months. And all of a sudden
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: she's like tearing her clothes off. And I'm like, of course, yeah.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, nice, nice. All right. So the landscape has changed.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: It seems from your personal experience in coaching, what are
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the biggest observable shifts in female receptivity, risk tolerance and
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: selectivity over the last 20 years?
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I will say as far as their selectivity goes
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: and what they respond to, at the baseline, to be honest,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I've not seen that change. What has changed is the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: amount of options or perceived options. Let's put it that way.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: It's perceived options. It's not really options because sure, they
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: can get on social media and dating apps and get
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: a ton of likes, a ton of very good looking guys,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: even though they might be like a five or six
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: way out of their league to, to message them, to
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: connect with them. But those guys are not relationship material.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: They're not looking for a relationship with them. They're looking
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: for easy access. And that's the thing that, that women,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I almost overwhelmingly, all of them misconstrued is like, okay,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: this guy wants to have sex with you. He does
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: not want to marry you, you know? Um, And I,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: and I've had that problem too, with a lot of
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: women I've dated, especially recently, because I don't want a
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: relationship and I want to stay single. That makes them
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: want you more, you know? And it's like, and they
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: also are diluting themselves into like thinking, okay, you're going
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: to change your mind or you're going to, you're going
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: to know you're going to fall for me. I'm going
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to cook. You're going to fall in love. And I'm like, okay,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: don't count on it. But yeah, I don't want you
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: mad at me if I don't commit, you know? And so,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, their expectations have just kind of, been
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: a little, well, not a little, but a lot diluted
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: by the amount of options, including simps. I mean, I've
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: always said simps are the biggest problem in the world
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: when it comes to these women's egos and inflating them
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and not being honest with them and giving them these
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: unrealistic expectations for what they deserve in a man. So
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: that causes a lot of, women to think, oh, well,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I'm deserving of this. I shouldn't have to settle. And
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: you'll hear a lot of women say, I'm not going
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: to settle. I'm not going to settle. And it's like, OK,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: but at some point you have to, you know, everybody
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: has to settle. You can't always get what you want,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: you know, especially in relationships. You have to just settle
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: kind of, you know. So, yeah, I mean, I would
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: love to I would love a drop dead gorgeous dime piece,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: extremely loyal, faithful, loving woman. you know, to be in
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: a relationship with, but I know realistically, I might have
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: to drop it down a bit, you know, I mean,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: for sure, you know, it's just not realistic, you know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, but yeah, everybody, you know, every once in
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: a while people win the lottery.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: So that's true. Yeah, it can happen. Do you think
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that that sounds to me like dating apps might be
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: a factor in why that is? Because what you were saying,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: you know, reminded me when I was young, you know,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I met girls in school or at my job or
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: in the mall. and you'd approach them, and it was
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: like two physical bodies standing in front of each other.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: You can't really fake any of that. You just have
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: a conversation, see if you click, whatever. But these days,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are using apps, and I think women,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know why, but it seems to me that
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: they seem to prefer those because they get to essentially exclude.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: There was a study that came out Not long ago,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I think it was Tinder and that women swipe left
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: 90% of the time on men. So this is worse
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: than like with that old, you know, plenty of fish
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: thing they did back in the day when I think
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: it was like 80% of men were seen as below average. Well,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: on the Tinder, they're swiping left like 90% of the time.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: And men are swiping left about half the time. So...
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: it seems that their, their perspectives on what a good
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: enough woman is, is more reasonable. And I mean, I
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: would guess that men probably are fine with holding themselves
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: to a much lower standard that even they deserve because
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: they are, as you said before, they're simps. So they're
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: kind of like inflating the value of a lot of
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: women or they do what a lot of guys do
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: is they'll just swipe right on everybody and just, you know,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: deal with whatever happens afterwards. So I'm not sure that's
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the best model, but is it fair to say that
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: that's a part of the problem?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: And most of these women on dating apps, I think
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: there was some statistic that said like around 44% of them.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, so basically almost half of them are on
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: dating apps with no intention of dating. They are just
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: there post breakup or they might even be in relationships
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: just to get the attention and the validation. to see
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: what their market value currently is without actually going out
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: there and dating. So, um, and you know, obviously they're
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: wasting your time if they're not on there to date and, um, yeah. Yeah.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: So how much of that do you think is like
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: intrasexual competition? You know, like women, um, I mean, what
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: we talk about on, on the show a lot is
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of times, um, when women are, you know,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: getting attention online, putting on certain outfits, whatever. A lot
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: of it has more to do with how they can
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: affect other women, make them feel jealous, rather than like,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe there's a man. But they're not interested
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: in the man. You know, they're interested in the, it's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: like winning a game against other women.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Women are extremely competitive. I mean, yeah, when
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: they dress up, they go to the club, I mean,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: it's to compete with other women. You know, it's not
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: necessarily to impress guys or impress us. It's to basically
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: out-compete the women in there and how they're dressed and
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: the attention they're getting. And then the guy is basically
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: the trophy, you know, if that makes sense.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I watched a movie the other day.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I know it was a little bit of a digression,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: but I watched a movie the other day. Ever seen
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the movie Death Becomes Her? Oh, yeah.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: It's got Goldie Hawn.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Right. what am I, what's her name? The, the, uh, Glenn, no,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: not Glenn Close. The other one. So a very famous
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: actress that like, you know, wins awards a lot. I
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: think she was in the devil wears Prada or something,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: but I can't remember her name.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: And Bruce Willis. Right. And the two, it's two women
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: and they basically want to like, they're trying to outdo
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: each other, uh, in terms of their youthfulness. Like they're, they,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: they drink a potion so they can like live forever
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: and they stay young. And, uh, Bruce Willis's character is
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: like this man that they're like fighting over, but they
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: don't really care about him at all. Like he's just
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: like the proof of their success over each other. And
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: so I, you know, when I, I saw that movie
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: the other day and I hadn't watched it in years.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: And my wife and I had a big conversation about
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: how that is. It just, you know, it's like the,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: the essence of intrasexual competition, which is something nobody wants
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: to acknowledge exists. You ever noticed that? Like, A lot
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: of the things that women do, which is human. I
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: don't think there's anything bad about it, you know, but
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: it's like, we're not supposed to act like it happens.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Like women are just not capable of that kind of thing.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We're supposed to look the, I mean, we're supposed
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: to pretend it's not actually going on. And this is a,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: this is a big, I'm going to give you like
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: a very powerful, extremely powerful lesson when it comes to
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: women and female nature, how they get away with absolute
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: bad behavior and just, Just complete.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's hear it.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Complete terrible nonsense, put it that way. All women do this,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: and you'll notice they use a thing, and I use
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: this in pickup artistry because it's extremely powerful to get
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: women to do things they normally wouldn't do, whether it's
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: an instant makeout, leaving the venue with you, taking you home.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: There's a little weapon that we use in pickup call
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: it's and it could be used for evil but uh
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: it's called plausible deniability plausible deniability all a woman needs
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: is plausible deniability to cross the line and if you
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: give her the plausible deniability where you're removing faults from
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: her and just going yeah okay don't worry it's on
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: me it's on me you're not doing anything it's on
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: me it's on me girl OK, you know, you're just
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: giving her free reign to act out, do whatever, you know,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: do whatever she would not want to tell her girlies about.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: And believe me, they will never know. Her family will
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: never know. And I will often say that, look, it's
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: just me and you here. Nobody's going to know. You know,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell your friends. They're not going
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: to know. Just tell me we went to Starbucks all night.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: You know, just tell me like we went for a
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: walk on the beach. Why are you going to tell
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: them you're taking me home? That's our business, girl. That's
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: between us. Like, yeah, you're right. You're right. It's like
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: all they need is this plausible deniability to cross the
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: line and they will do it. They will do it. Verbatim. Verbatim. Yeah.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: You know what? Very powerful tool. And yes, they use
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: it all the time. It just reminded me of, I'm
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: sure that you've heard about this, the Cornell 7 case. Oh, right.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: You've heard about this?
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And the the woman involved. And this is like
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: a common thing that we see, you know, it appears
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and I don't you know, again, it's a civil case
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: kind of ongoing, but it's like two years old at
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: this point. And it appears that she has changed her
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: story a number of times. And I think a lot
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: of it has to do with protecting her reputation, which
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: is a very, you know, common thing. But from who?
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: And that's the question. I think it's from other women. Um,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: mostly because that's sort of where the conversation has been
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: taking places is with other women who have come out
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: in her defense, in the defense of Jane Doe.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Is that, is that like, um, is that like a, uh,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I guess like a microcosm for what we're talking about?
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Because I mean, at the end of the day, women
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: have a very big problem, especially modern women. have a
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: very big problem with accepting any accountability at all for
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: any wrongdoing. It's like if you look at most women's behavior,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: it's what they what they prioritize is perceived morality.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: They want to they want to look like they're the
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: good person, even though, yes, like in reality, you look
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: at their behavior, their conduct. It does not mirror the
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: actions of a good person. But you can tell yourself
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: all you want. You're a great person. But if you
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: wipe out a bus full of kids and nuns and animals,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: you're probably not a good person. But they need to
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: feel like, hey, I'm moral and I'm doing the right
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: thing and all this. But on paper, that's what they say.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: But in reality, that's not what's happening. And unfortunately, the
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: court's are just geared because we have this conditioning, this
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: social engineering to believe that women are the more moral
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: superior gender.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're the empathetic sex. They're the morally enlightened, that
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: kind of thing.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Totally, totally untrue.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: But she couldn't just come out and say, I did that.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I regret it. Maybe I don't regret it, whatever. But
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: it couldn't be that. It had to be like, oh,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I have to make this story so that I can get,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: I guess, support and attention and sympathy from other people
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: on the internet, especially women, who are the majority of
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: the people who probably came out in support of her.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, and it just goes to
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: show how deep the sisterhood runs and how they will
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: just protect each other and how these women just, they
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: should not be in powers of position or government I've
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: said it over and over and over. Got me a
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: lot of hot water with YouTube that I said women
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: cannot be trusted with power. They should not have power
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: because each time they will abuse it. They will use
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: use it for bias. They won't be fair. You know,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: and I mean, I've seen this over and over and
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: over with my students and family courts. And, you know,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: the wife could get away with lying and just completely
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: just being really, really mean. Yeah, deceptive, which a lot
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: of them are. And I mean, in these cases, as
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: you see, like she can't just own it. I mean,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: because that's what a man would do. It's like, OK,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: you're cornered, dude. Best thing you can do here is
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: just own it, you know. And and usually the guy
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: would be like, OK, yeah, you know, I did it.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: And I don't know what I was thinking, but I'm sorry.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: And I'm sorry I caused this pain for everybody. And,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm willing to accept whatever punishment comes my way.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: I you know, I shouldn't have said this or I
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have done this. But that takes integrity. And that's
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: just not something women are wired with.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask about that because, yeah,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I've talked about that a lot. But I think it's
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: because they don't have to. Like they don't need it
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: the way men need it. Like I think that with men,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: there's like this, I don't know, like men value things
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: like honor and integrity a lot. And I'm not saying
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: that all men are honorable, but I think that like,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: you know, when a man is being, honorable and has that,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: it gains him a lot of respect, right? Because it's
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: like they have to earn that. But I don't think
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: women have to do that. It's not necessary. It's not
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: the same. Is that fair or am I being unfair
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: to women?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. That's completely fair because society enables it.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, the courts enable it. The laws enable it.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: So why would you? I mean, they're never really held accountable.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, all the studies say that they do like
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: a fraction of the time that men do in prison
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: for the same type of crimes. They get off more often.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: They get free passes more often. And yeah, it's just,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: it's ludicrous. It's like, okay, why should they take accountability
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: if their, their feet are never held to the fire,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: And yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: And in relationships, even if you try to, you know,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: cause I coach a lot of guys and they try
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: to just enforce like basic boundaries. Like I don't, I
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: don't want you going out dressing like that with your
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: girlfriends to a single spark.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Or a bachelorette party or something.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Or a bachelorette party. Yeah, I'm not down with that.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: And if you do, I'm putting your stuff outside.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Uh-oh.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Coercive control. Believe it or not, that's emotional abuse. 100%.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Are you kidding me?
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Emotional abuse? I mean, I've coached so many guys who have, like, Look, Matt,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I've got a domestic violence charge for emotional abuse. I'm like,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: have you ever hit her?
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: No.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Any 911 calls? No. Any police threats? Have the police
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: ever been in your place? No, no, no, no, no, no.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: You didn't ever threaten her life?
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: No.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: What did you do? Well, she was going out with
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: the friends and said, like, I said, if you do this,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: I'm putting your stuff outside verbatim. Coercive control. Crazy, crazy.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: And she'll get it. You know, I mean, so, yeah, ludicrous.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: That's true. So when how have women and I know
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: we kind of talked about this a little bit, but
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: like how how do women treat men who approach who
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: cold approach these days compared to how they used to,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: especially because people are using apps more.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Have you noticed a difference there?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah. A lot of it. Well, with the
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: with the younger women, a lot of it is surprise. Like, whoa,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: you know, you're talking to me. But this is where
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: the pickup stuff and just, I feel like I'm just
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: kind of like an old Jedi at this point, like
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: an old Obi-Wan wielding my lightsaber, you know, or just
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: coming in there with the, what do they say? These
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: are not the droids you're looking for.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. These are not the droids you're looking for.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, these are not the droids you're looking for.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: So it's really powerful on these younger women, the younger generation,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: because they're so... not used to guys their age being
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: socially separated to do that. Whereas I think me and
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: you just talked about this, that we're roughly around the
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: same age. Whereas women our age, like they were in
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: the malls that we were talking to back then. So
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: they get it. They don't mind being approached. They prefer
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: being approached. And, you know, for those younger guys who
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: are interested in women our age, I think, yeah, they
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: would be like, oh my gosh, you know, they would
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: love it. They love that, you know? So yeah. for
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the older women, like, up over 40 that were around
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: before pre-internet, pre-dating apps, pre-social media, I've noticed they eat
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: it up. They love it. They love the interaction. They
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: love that you got the ball.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Well, especially because they're not getting it like they used
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: to if they're over 40. Like, they, you know, so, yeah. Like,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: if you, when I worked in retail, I wouldn't flirt
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: with them, but I might, like, say to an old, like,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: a senior lady would be in with her older, old
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: lady friends, and I would say, You know, I hope
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: you girls have a nice day. And they would just
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: make their day because they were like 60-something, right? And
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: they felt young and they were like floating outside the store.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, it's a little thing like that, you know.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: But anyway, we're talking about younger women are not used
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: to that.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Younger women are definitely just kind of taken
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: back by it. And it's almost like if you call
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: them on the phone, like, whoa. You're calling? Yeah.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I heard they can be, like, if they were, when
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: they reject men, they reject them hard, though. Like, they
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: can be really mean.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know if.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: That's true, but.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but in many ways, they've always been mean. And
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: in some ways, they've kind of been meaner back in
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: the 90s, believe it or not. Because back then, it
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: was like, no social media. You could wreck a guy. And,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: you know, and just keep it on the D on
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: the down low. Whereas these days, these women know that
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: their social media and what if this guy has a following?
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: What if this guy, you know, I was recording this
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: and they're a little more careful, I find. And they're
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: just a little more polite because now we're kind of
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: everybody's so sensitive to just culture and, you know, racism
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: or whatever. So they'll be like, oh, I don't want
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: to be accused of being a racist or I don't
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: want to be. I'll just be polite and be like, no,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: thank you. They're actually a little bit more polite in
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: many ways, but in some ways, obviously, they're now tatted up.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: They're now just kind of nose rings and all that.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Piercings, tattoos, crazy hair. Finding ways to stand out. I
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: think that's all that is. It's like women are still
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: being really competitive and they're just trying to find new
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: ways to stand out in a crowd so they get
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: tattoos and the color of their hair and things.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Like yeah probably not the best way girls like put
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: back on the skirts and the crop tops and do
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: your hair and try to look feminine yeah well that's.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: What men want but i don't think women want are
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: doing that for men i think they're doing it for
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: women too they.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Don't want they don't want us to have what we
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: want no.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: No no no not at all uh do you think
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: that the me too movement had an effect on this, uh,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: on the, on the dating landscape? I know that like
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys would say that it does, and
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: I've seen how it affects businesses and, you know, uh,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: various industries, but like, what about on the ground? Like
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: in the, you know, where you, where you, uh, operate?
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I mean, back when it was happening, it
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: was definitely having an effect. And I think that is
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: where the red pill really started to, like, go from
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: here to here. And it started to really take off.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: And women were just, you know, making all sorts of
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: sexual harassment claims, you know, against guys, especially politicians, they
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: would claim things from like, oh, this happened in 1982.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: And it's like, all right, girl, it's like 2020. What
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: do you why are you bringing this up now? So
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: it became a thing for a while, but I feel
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: like it's almost kind of just dying down for the
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: fact that women have noticed the last few years that
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: they're not getting approached as much. Guys aren't wanting to
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: date them as much. More guys are checking out. They're
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: finding it more difficult to date. So now they're kind
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: of being hit with the reality. It's like, okay, maybe
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: we should start backing off a little bit. Guys don't
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: want to help them at work. Guys don't want to
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: help them get promoted. So a lot of guys are
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: just starting to go, okay, well, okay, I'm not going
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: to help you. A lot of guys don't even want
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: to be in a room alone with a woman. And
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I get that.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of this community online that women use?
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know how big it is, but it's pretty
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: big on Reddit. It's called Female Dating Strategy.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: No.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: You ever heard of that? It's basically the... it's sort
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: of like the female counterpart to the pickup artist, but
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: it's women who are essentially, it's all focused on them
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: getting that bag, like getting a good man, securing a
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: good man, but according to their sort of strategy, which
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: is basically just trying to get the absolute top tier men.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: And it's like a very, It's very cutthroat over there.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen that or heard about it,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: but it could be really interesting to look at. And
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of women make videos about it. It's like
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: a whole new level of high standards, like a completely
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: different dimension.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's absolutely crazy. And everything that would normally
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: have been expected from any partner in any relationship, they
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: see that as labor work. and risk. So all of
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: it has to be mitigated against what the man brings. And,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: and I think these women really want to be, you know, pampered.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: They want to be treated like princesses and, but they
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: also don't want to give anything back. And it's like
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: a really popular growing movement. It's called the female dating strategy.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: So if you don't know about it, you should look
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: it up.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, just because I've been in this industry long enough,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of these female groups grow and, and, to,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: to eventually just fall off a cliff. But, you know,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: as soon as the, as soon as the social dynamic changes,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: but I mean, I even remember back in the day,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: there was like a female pickup artist group. And I,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, we all kind of got a kick out
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: of that back then. It was like, okay, why you
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: guys don't need pickup.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Just show up. That's your pickup. Yeah.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: I'm a show up artist. Yeah.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a shit. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to leave the
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: house artist. So, yeah, this sounds kind of just along
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: those lines. It's just a little bit more extreme where they're.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: But I mean, but that's women's entitlement in a nutshell.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: That's why. And I don't I think I had this
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: discussion actually with Pearl. I said that we could I
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: don't know if it was on camera or off camera
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: because we did speak before and after. And we kind
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: of were joking with the fact that we should just
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: create a product. just catering to women's egos, we would
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: become billionaires, you know, and just like, like a product
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: where they're not held accountable. They get everything they want.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: They could get the bag. They could get the relationship.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: They could get the Chad, the jet, the lifestyle, but
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: they don't have to bring anything to the table. There's
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: no responsibility. There's no accountability. They don't have to act
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: like his girlfriend, whatever. They could go out and be
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: three Oh fours. And we're like, this product would make billions.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: And then now you're describing this and I'm like, that's
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: that product, you know, that product, you know, and that's
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: why it grows because it caters to women's need for
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: validation without any responsibility. Like, you know, and that's most
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: women today in relationships. It's like they want they want
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: the title of girlfriend or wife, but they don't want
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: the responsibility that comes with it.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: You know, and they want they want weddings, but they
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: don't want to be wives.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: And this is why on my social media specifically, I've
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: been posting like my dates and the different women I'm seeing,
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: the ones that will allow it. I mean, because there
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: are a few that like I don't want to be
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: on social media. I'm like, OK, that's fine. But then
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: there are others that are complete hams. They're like, I
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: want to be on there. Yeah, I want you. Yeah.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: I'm like, OK, girl, no problem. But then they get
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: mad because they're like, hey, I didn't know you went
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: on a date next the following week. And I tell him, yeah, yeah,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: of course. And then like, are you wanting a relationship?
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah, well, maybe at some point, but I
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: need to vet. I don't just jump into relationships. I
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: need to vet you to make sure that you demonstrate
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: certain behaviors over a period of time, not over a
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: week or two, but over a period of time that
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: I want to see before I enter any sort of
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: long term dating relationship with you. You know, and that's
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: that's that's the aspect. I think a lot of guys
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: sell themselves a little too short. They just kind of
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: jump into something. And then, you know, next thing you know,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: the girl doesn't value them or they're, you know, because
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: all women will sell you a fantasy. I mean, they're
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: like frigging car salesmen. You know, they'll sell you a
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: fantasy up front. But then once you take that car home,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: you start to see like gremlins, you know. Yeah. That
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: knocking engine light comes on and your ABS lights and
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: all that. So, yeah.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. What aspects of female psychology and mating
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: strategy have you seen appear most constant despite all, you know,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: basically throughout, like what stays the same from all the
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: time that you've been doing this to now?
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Mating strategies is, pretty much that they have a dual
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: mating strategy i i would say that and that's something
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: that the red pill has pretty much dialed down to
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: a t and i see it in field all the
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: time it's like they have one strat one part of
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: the strategy is like yeah of course they they're just
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: wired to want to bond and marry and have children
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: and be mothers and all that but then there's this
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: other side that wants the fun the excitement the you
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: know the crazy sex and uh just you know to
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: engage with that and you know, and it's, it's a
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: constant play in, or in, uh, with these women, you know, and, um,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: I would say the good ones, the few and far
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: between good ones that I've met throughout my career, which
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: has been very few and far between, I can name
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: on one hand, like, and even just, I can, I
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: just think off the top of my head of, out
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: of everyone I dated at everyone, I picked up tens
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: of thousands of women. They're like three that I could
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: think of that were, that were solid, that were good
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: girls and are still married to this day.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: And, um, And you dated them, but they went on
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: to marry other men.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: They did. And at the time I did have an
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: opportunity to marry him or I could have checked out.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: And I think about that at times. I'm like, I
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: could have checked out.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Kind of like the ones that got away. Sure.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And if that's what you were looking for.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: If that was. Yeah. And at that time I was
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: too young. I was in my 20s. But but that's
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: the time for these women to get married. And they
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: were in their 20s and now they're my age. But
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: they're still married to the same guy that they met.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: immediately after me, immediately after me. And even before they
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: met that, you know, they started dating again. They said,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: are you sure this is not going to work? I
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: really want this to work. And that was also another
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: inkling to me. I'm like, okay, this very cute woman
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: wants to work it out with me. And I'm the
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: one who's saying like, I'm too young. I'm not ready
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: for family or kids. And I was just being honest
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: and I don't have regrets about that, but it is
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: pleasing for me. At least it just gives me like
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: a glimmer of hope that it's possible that And even
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: they I'm sure they have to fight off men at
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: their work and men at, you know, or any guys that,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: you know, are trying to hit on them to stay
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: faithful to their husbands.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: But they do.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: And I see it, you know, and I'm like, OK,
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: it's a constant battle, you know, but but unfortunately, most women,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I would say 99 percent are not capable of that.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: You know, they'll at some point some good enough player
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: will come along and, you know, give them plausible deniability
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: and she'll cross the line.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Do you think that... I don't know. Now that you're
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: saying this, and I know this is getting into some
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: possibly controversial territory, but do you think that women, one
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: of the reasons why they're having such a hard time
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: with this whole accountability thing, do you think that it
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: has anything to do with the fact that they have
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: been kind of thrust into a.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know, modern post-sexual revolution world where there's ideas,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: pressures around people, especially young people, to date right away
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: or become sexually active right away that maybe these women
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: are not really built to adapt to. I know that
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: they have the capacity to be this way, and I'm
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: not trying to cape for them, but... I'm trying to
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: understand like how we got here and like what's missing
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: right because it was back in the day you know
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: you had you only like knew the people that lived
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: in your community and you maybe you were around them
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: all the time and there was a boy that you
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: always knew and you liked, and maybe you knew you
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: were going to marry him one day and you did.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: And then, but these days, you know, there's so much,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: like you said, there's so much access. Everything's open wide up.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: And of course this is inevitable because it's just like
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: the way the technology works, but maybe women haven't been
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: able to, like, they're not prepared for this world. And
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: I think that because I think that they're really struggling. Like,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: I know that there's a lot of talk about, you know,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: how awful they are. And I know there's a lot
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: we can say about that, but I also think they're
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: really having a hard time. And I think that they're
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: like really like suffering, like they're not happy, statistically showing.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: I think that what most of them want is something
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: stable that makes them feel safe and they're not in
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: that world. And instead they're in this like, you know, post,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: like I said, second wave sexual revolution, feminist world, And
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: they probably to some degree feel like they have to
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: act a certain way to be in it. And so
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: they're doing their best. And I don't know that they're
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: happy with that. No. So I don't know what you
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: thought about that.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: No.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: And the thing with women is they have a follower.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: They have like a follower mentality. They have like hive mentality.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: So whatever the dominant narrative is in society, they are
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: just going to go along to get along. And I mean,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: back in the day, what was it? It was marriage, kids, family.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: And they followed with that, right? That's why society functioned
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: a whole lot better back in the day. And, you know,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: because families stayed intact, because that was the dominant narrative
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: in society, where now the dominant narrative is, you know,
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: go get your education, don't settle down early, girl. Go
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: out there and, you know, chase your career, your corporate career,
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: make all sorts of money. And, you know.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: But they're like, they're not. They're going into college. They're
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: coming out like, what, six figures in debt sometimes, five figures.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: And they're past their most fertile years are gone. And
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: there are no men around. And so, like, I mean,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying we're going to fix the problem right here,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: right now. I'm just sort of like, you know, looking
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: at it and saying this seems to be an issue.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: And I think that what men are doing by... you know,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: sort of pulling back away from that is probably the
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: wisest thing for them to do just because of all
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: the legal and political problems that come out of like
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: involving themselves. But I, I think that if you knew
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: a couple of good women and I know some good women,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: so it's not like they don't exist. Um, but then like,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: what are they doing that works? And like, can that
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: become a new sort of, uh, I don't know, like
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: a new, like cultural zeitgeist that other women will, cause I,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: you're right. I think women have like a follower mentality.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: So if they see that everyone else is doing something,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: they'll do it because they want, it's, it gives them
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: a sense of safety. Right.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, and, uh, and women, uh, as far as like, uh,
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: just applying this to attraction very quickly, then, uh, I'll,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: I'll circle back to what you're saying here. Um, they
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: use a technique even for choosing partners called mate copying.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: And I've used this in pickup myself. It's like very
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: powerful where you just surround yourself with other hot women
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: and then other hot women will want you too. It
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter if they're, you know, suddenly you become attractive
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: because they see you around other women. It's nuts. But
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: it's called mate copying and they're wired to respond to this.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: It's or pre-selection as we call it, more layman's terms.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: But for guys, we don't care if, the chick is
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: surrounded by a lot of hot dudes. As a matter
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: of fact, we don't like that. You know, I mean,
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: we like the opposite reaction. Yeah.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: A lot of times, like even growing up, I'm sure
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: you had a buddy who was like, Hey, I think
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: this girl's hot. And you're like, I don't really, I
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: don't really, I don't think she's hot, but I think
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: that girl's hot. And he's like, really, you know, but
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: you're able to just go, okay, well, that's, that's all.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: That's you. You're not going.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: You think she's hot.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: We don't have that mentality. We're able to think individualistically,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: you know, and that's the biggest threat to, you know,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: feminism is they don't want people who can think for themselves.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: They want a bunch of followers, you know, and it's
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: funny because the three good women I mentioned earlier that
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: they all have in common is none of them are
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: on board. They never post any feminist quotes or anything
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: like that. And I'm sure they have to deal with
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: the politics at work. I'm sure maybe they'll give a
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: little lip service to just keep the peace going. because
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: women are like that. They'll just say, well, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: to just keep the peace. But outside of that, they're
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: not following that guideline because they see their peers and
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: they go, these women are miserable. They're depressed. Why would
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: I want to jump on board with that? Yeah.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, we're getting close to the end here.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I did get a couple of paid comments I want
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: to read out. But first, I want to ask you,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: In the time that you have done this, let's say,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: in the last, I don't know, maybe in the last
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: five years, in what ways do you think you have
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: changed the most? With regards to this work, rather, not
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: just in general.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: I would say I've always been good at adapting to
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: the times. And that is how you have longevity in
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: any field, any career. You just have to adapt constantly.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: to the times to, I mean, because even when I
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: first started my business, I mean, there were a lot
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: of platforms that didn't exist. Uh, YouTube didn't exist. And
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: then the more of these platforms came on board, I
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: would just adapt to them. So just adapting to the
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: times is, is probably something I've always been good at
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: and just understanding, you know, and because I've been doing
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: this so long, just there, I wish the world was
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: a certain way, but I know that I'm not capable
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: of changing it. I'm not God. So I just try
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: to live in reality and, and see the world how
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: it is versus how I want it to be. Sure.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: I'd like to, you know, I try to add value
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: and I try to change it. I try to be the,
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: as they say, be the change you want to see.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: I definitely live by that motto, but at the end
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: of the day, I live in reality and I'm like, okay, I,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: you know, this is what I'm dealing with. And I
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: think that's, that's why I've been able to respond to
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of these social dynamic changes and, you know,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: you know, pickup artistry. That's why I'm still here. where
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of the top PUA companies, way bigger than mine,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: are defunct. I'm like the last one here.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: And that's your book, The Last Pickup Artist. For someone
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: who isn't into, because people that watch us, they're I
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: think mostly MGTOW types, but there's a mix. We have
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: a blend of people, but what is something that your
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: book could offer someone who isn't necessarily looking for you know,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: the kind of PUA lessons, but maybe they want to
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: learn something from it. What is something they might get
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: out of your new book that's coming out next year,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: July 4th?
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, July 4th. I think it's going to be mostly
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: geared towards guys who are, or I mean, the theme
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: that my channel has gone in and just my progression
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: from how we used to, you know, and how guys
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: really used to prioritize marriage, dating, relationships, women, above everything,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: above their faith, above their family, above their pets and
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: all this stuff. And where now we're getting back, we've
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: gotten back to a place where, you know, our priorities
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: are at least in line, right? Like for me, it's
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: my faith, my family, my animals, and then my business.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: And then, and then if I have time, women, whereas
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: before it was all messed up, you know, But I
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: think that will be the biggest benefit for guys because
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: it takes them on the same journey that they went through.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: It's only that I had a whole lot more experience
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: with cold approaching women versus just one or two. And
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: then I've seen the same patterns play out. So just
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: because a lot of guys who've not dated enough and
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: not been out enough have They kind of think they're
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: crazy or they're like being gaslit by the world. But
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: then when they see other guys who are like, okay,
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: I've had the same experiences. And then you see the
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: pattern behavior. You go, okay, I wasn't crazy this whole time.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: This is actually happening. And I think this is why
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: guys gravitate to this type of content, like your channel
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: or my channel, because they're like, hey, these guys are speaking.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: They're like in my heads. And it's like, no, dude,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: we're all having the same experiences with women all over
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: the world, no matter what. Where they are, it's like
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: we all see the same pattern of behavior. Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm glad that you mentioned your faith.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: I do think that that is something that is undervalued today.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: But I think that's changing. I know, especially with men. Yeah.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Like a lot of men are are. looking for answers
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: and they're realizing that they're not going to find it
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: with women right now. So they're looking for something higher.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: And I, I, I appreciate that. I, and I've seen
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: that in my own life. So yeah, that's awesome.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: All right. Uh, I got a couple of comments here.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: So first I'm going to read them out. Uh, this
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: is Shaw gave us $ 9. 99. Hello, Shaw. Welcome.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: I've got Shaw coming up.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: I went to your Instagram. You took a picture with
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: him and the guy, John from It's Complicated and Paul.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I used part of that image, your part, for the thumbnail.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: I think you asked me for a headshot shoot. I
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: was looking for one last night. I don't know why.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: I thought I sent it, but I didn't.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's okay. I hope you don't mind that we
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: used the one from Instagram.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. No, absolutely.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay. Yeah, one time I had an author on
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: a while back. His name was Bjorn Bolhansen, and he
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: writes about Vikings. But we were talking about masculinity, and
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: I used a picture, and he was not happy because
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: I guess it was like an official headshot for his publishing.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: So I had to take it down and put another
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: one up. So I apologize for that, but. But Shaw says,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: for 999, great show, guys. Glad to see Matt Cross
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: on stream. Thank you, Shaw. Yeah, appreciate it.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: And Dark Kikimora gave us a $ 20 Super Chow and says,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: was wondering what the guest has to say on the
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: data that 75% of women below 40 wish they were
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: approached more. Do you know anything about this study?
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: No. First time I've heard it. 75% under 45.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: There's some data, and I don't know if there's a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: source for this, Dark Kikimora, but maybe post it in
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: our Discord server and we can look at it. He
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: says that 75% of women below 40 wish they were
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: approached more. So below 40, that would mean they were millennials.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: And that means that in like the 2010s, they were
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: like in their 30s.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: So yeah, they probably drove men away, to be honest.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Because millennial women are very woke.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: And so I know that men.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Can deal with that.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: They're like the wokest of all. I mean, you would
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: think the younger women in their 20s would be even
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: more woke. But no, they're happily, and I've dated a
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: few already, are coming back to baseline. And I almost
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: feel like I'm dating... in some ways a Gen Xer,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: but in a 20 year old body, you know, and
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, this is awesome girl. You know, even
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: though she doesn't know what a cassette players and Walkmans are. Oh,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: that's okay.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You'll show, you'll show them. She'll bring, show them,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: break out the VCR.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Parents beta max.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Let's go. All right. Um, Well, okay. So any last
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: things you want to plug before we wrap it up?
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It was a good conversation. I
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: wish there was more time because I could get into
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: more stuff, but we got to cut it off in
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: an hour.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's, it's been awesome. For first of all, yeah.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Everybody subscribe to Brian's channel here. He's doing a lot
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: of great work. So make sure you subscribe. Also Shaw's channel.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: He's a, he's a great dude. So he's got a
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff on the dowry and, um, the like
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: paternity fraud and all that. Uh, but we're going to be, uh,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be doing a podcast with him next.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: So yeah, subscribe to Sean's channel. And then lastly, if
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: you want to subscribe to my stuff, feel free to,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: I'm at, um, the 33 secrets on YouTube. And, uh,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: you can find me on IG. If, if you just
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: want to like, see what I'm up to and who
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: I'm dating and who I'm like cold approaching, go to
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Matt cross official.com. on IG because YouTube doesn't like us
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: posting infields anymore. I've gotten too many threats. I'm like, okay,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: I'll stop. I'll just post on IG.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Post where?
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, on YouTube. They were sending like, like shutdown notices. Oh,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: there's back in the me two days, back in the
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: me two days. And they haven't lifted the ban on that.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Like they, yeah, I used to have a lot of
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: infield videos. And I think that's why a lot of
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: pickup companies went to funk too, because they, YouTube started
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: banning like channels. And I was like, uh, And then
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: they sent me some warnings to take certain ones down
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: or they just removed it. And I was like, okay,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: I guess that's done. So yeah, but IG is still
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: okay with posting date footage and stuff. They just don't
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: want you posting anything crazy. So it's like, okay.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah. So check them out. I put links to
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: all of your stuff in the description of the video,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: as well as your book. So, you know, if you
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: guys are interested, go check it out. It's called The
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Last Pickup Artist. And I think he is just based
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: on where things are going. You might actually not be
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: lying in that title. But, well, you know, we'll see.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Hopefully things could turn around. Maybe the Zoomer women will
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: fix things or Generation Alpha. I don't know.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't see it coming back, man. I
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: would love to hand my lightsaber over to the younger,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: like a younger pick of artists. It's like, go nuts, kid.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: But I just don't see it. I mean, it's like
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: everything's moving to dating apps. And yeah, so we'll see.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: We'll see, though.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. But with all that out
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: of the way, thanks guys for coming on the stream.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: If you guys liked this video, please hit like. Subscribe
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: if you're not already subscribed. Hit the bell for notifications.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: Leave us a comment. Let us know what you guys
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: think about what we talked about in the show today.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: And share the video because sharing is caring. Thanks so
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: much for coming on this episode of the Fireside Chat.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: And we will talk to you guys in the next one.