Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / Unconventional lessons from Tiffany Krumins, founder of Ava the Elephant, who sold 50% of her business to Barbara Corcoran on SharkTank (+ her new venture Opu Probiotics!) (Part 1)

Transcript

Unconventional lessons from Tiffany Krumins, founder of Ava the Elephant, who sold 50% of her business to Barbara Corcoran on SharkTank (+ her new venture Opu Probiotics!) (Part 1) · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Tiffany Crewmans for Female Startup Club.
• 0:12
  Hi, hello, it's Dune here, your host and hype girl popping into your ears on a super sunny day from Sydney, Australia. If you're new to the show, hi, welcome. Every week I'm chatting with some of the world's most successful female founders and entrepreneurs to understand how they've built their business to seven figures in annual recurring revenue and above. What's working and also what's not working. What's working?
• 0:37
  We also love to talk about the money piece and we love to dig into the challenges and find the insights that come from going through those hard times. Today on the podcast, we're learning from Tiffany Crewmans and you might recognize her as the brains behind Ava the Elephant.
• 0:53
  Tiffany and her story are just so special and so interesting, and it's got plenty of plot twists along the way. There's a lot of insight around what can go wrong when you're scaling too fast, and we break down her blueprint to building her newest business, Opu Probiotics, which is completely different to the first time around. This episode is something you're going to need a notepad and pen for because it is just so damn good.
• 1:19
  And while I've got you here, just quickly, we've also updated the grant document with a bunch of new grants from all over the world that are ready to be applied for this month. And you can download it by going to femalestartupclub.com forward slash grants. Let's get into this episode. This is Tiffany for Female Startup Club.
• 1:39
  Tiffany, hi, welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast. Hi, I about said good morning or evening, but I don't know what time it is where you're at. It's morning for me. Okay. It's just getting started. What time is it for you? It's seven o'clock at night. Oh my gosh. How was your day today? With four kids. So it was a, it was a day. It was a day. Did you have any wins or oh shit moments?
• 2:04
  Oh, God. Anyway, actually, I did have some wins. We're going to be on a national morning show here in the US, probably in less than two weeks. So that's a win. But it's also a, you know, oh, crap. Now we really got to hustle and be ready for it. So yeah, not complaining. That's a big one. That's a good one. Oh, my gosh. Congratulations. That's so exciting. I'm excited. And this is for your new brand or your new business. Well, not new. I say it's a few years old. But
• 2:30
  Yes. And the first real feature for my new brand. Ah, okay. Oh my gosh. I'm excited to get into kind of where you are now, but I definitely want to go back to the beginning and start kind of where it all started for you. I feel like a lot of people might have heard your name or maybe heard your business, Ava the Elephant, at some point.
• 2:50
  But let's go back to circa 2009, I think it is. Like this is a long time ago. Yes, it is. Where do you like to start your story? Like where does the light bulb moment happen for Ava the Elephant?
• 3:04
  My favorite part about my entrepreneurial story is that it did not start from me wanting to own a business or make money. I worked as a caregiver for children with special needs. And while working with one of those children, who I actually posted a picture of today on LinkedIn. He's still a dear friend. Now he's a dear friend of mine. He's this tall, but he was a baby when I watched him. And he had a very hard time taking medication. He has Down syndrome.
• 3:28
  And one night I went home and I was like, I'm going to change this. I had this light bulb moment of I knew I did a great job persuading him to do other things that he hated with animals. And so I knew that the medicine dropper needed to be covered with an animal instead of him seeing this syringe and freaking out and running the other way. If it looked like an animal or had a voice, maybe he'd like it. And so I created the first one out of sponges and fabric and the insides of a recordable greeting card.
• 3:57
  Again, not thinking of anything about launching a product or a business. You know, it was more of just how can I help Gibby? And so I took it to work the next day. I was like, Gibby, this is, I think I called it Emmy the elephant at the time, or I don't know, Ellie the elephant. And I took it in and said, this is Ellie the elephant. She's going to give you her medicine. And he was like, okay. And this is a kid who we, the day before we had restrained, you know, myself, his mom and his dad.
• 4:20
  had held him down to give him medication because he was just tortured by it. And he was like, oh, okay, cool. I don't see it anymore. And now it has a little voice and it's cute. And it wasn't cute. It was kind of horrific. I had like those little black beady eyes that I had to sew on. But it worked, you know. And it worked so well that we used it for months. Like we'd wash this thing out and clean it and try to sanitize it and use it again. And then I got a casting call notice from a friend of mine that said the headline was, do you have the next million dollar idea? Yeah.
• 4:50
  And she's like, what about that idea? What about that thing you did for Gibby? And I was like, gosh, maybe. There's a lot of kids that struggle with medication. Why not? I'll try. And so I submitted, and I really wasn't. I was super naive. I wasn't thinking about starting a business. I was like, I like this idea. It worked on him. This will be fun. What if I get on? The show didn't exist in the US at that point. It was a pilot service.
• 5:13
  So the pilot of a show is just an idea. They put it together. They pitch it to networks. They say, do you want this ABC? Do you want this NBC? And then if they buy the show, that's when they film all of the other episodes for that season. And so we didn't even know if it was going to get picked up or any of that. We just kind of blindly went to California, filmed the episode, and crossed our fingers. And the rest is kind of history. Now my whole life has changed because of that show.
• 5:40
  And the show we're talking about is Shark Tank, right? Yes, because of Shark Tank. Yes. Yep. Didn't have a name at the time, but yes. Wow. Oh, my God. So that's crazy. I didn't realize that you went from, like, that moment directly to recording this episode. I thought there was a transition in between. I was starting to build this as a person.
• 5:56
  Well, there was a tiny bit. The only thing I had done was, I've always been very creative. And so I created a, I turned my husband, who's a Latvian man, he's very tall, very big jawline, into Frankenstein one year. I was like, God, you make a great Frankenstein. And like, I did his makeup and I sewed this whole outfit for him. And he was like eight foot, he's already 6'4". And we turned him into like an eight foot tall. And we won $5,000 in that contest. And so we had just-
• 6:25
  Yeah, we had just won that money in that costume contest. And I had this Ava idea. And so the one thing I had done actually was take about half of that. And I'd gone to a patent attorney, you know, because I'd seen this work so well. I was like, gosh, what if, you know, but I hadn't, that was it. Like I didn't know manufacturing. I hadn't sourced the product. I had not done anything.
• 6:45
  Anything but figure out, did somebody already have this idea? That was my question. And it was the most important move that I could have done because I had a great patent search that basically said, no, you're the first one that has turned a medicine dispenser into something child-friendly. Not medical, but actually a face and all that. And so that's what I took to the show, was basically knowing I had a novel idea, basically.
• 7:10
  Did you think that, like, you obviously wouldn't have gone on the show without having that patented, right? Because then you wouldn't have been protected. I didn't have it patented at the time. I had just the patent search. So I knew that I wasn't infringing on someone else's, which is, to be honest with you, is the most important thing. People often, and I don't want to get too deep into this, but entrepreneurs come to me all the time and they say,
• 7:34
  They want that patent, you know, the shiny patent. They want to hold it up and say, I got a patent. But what they really need to be concerned about is, are they infringing on a bigger company or another entrepreneur's intellectual property? You know, and so that search is so very important. And then if you can verify with that search, with a thorough search through a real patent agent or attorney, that it is a novel idea, then that's when you, you know, want to own a patent on it and hopefully protect it. But a patent is only as good as the money you have to fight it. So...
• 8:03
  You can get all the patents in the world. And if a big company comes along and knocks it off, you've got to have millions of dollars to fight them. So I'm not deterring patents, but they're not your end all be all. Right. Got it. Okay. And so you go on the show, it sounds like you don't have a lot of kind of launch capital to like invest in, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars and units of, you know, a million units, whatever. But like, and you don't really have the manufacturing piece sorted out. So what happens when you go on the show? Like, what's the experience?
• 8:33
  So at the time, because it was 2009, you know, now everybody, everybody, the layperson, my grandma would know 3D printing. You know, it's a big thing now. Oh, you can 3D print at your library or at school. Well, at the time, none of that existed for the consumer. That was not something you could go and find anywhere. It was only big, big companies doing it maybe within their product development teams.
• 8:54
  And so I had no way to basically construct this plastic toy unless I was going to go actually do a CAD drawing, do a tool, which is very expensive, and manufacture prototypes at that point because it wasn't as easy as rapid prototyping now. And so my only option was I made them from clay. I basically baked my prototypes out of clay and put them in my oven and baked them. And they were rock hard clay elephants with the syringe in the back. And then I glued...
• 9:23
  The recordable box from a Build-A-Bear. I don't know if you have Build-A-Bear there, but they have these little recordable things that you can record your voice on and stick it inside of a stuffed animal. And so I went and got five of those or six of those, recorded a voice, stuck it on the back. And so I had the crudest...
• 9:39
  most hilarious, you know, prototypes on the show, but they worked. I mean, they got the point across. I went on and that's what I handed out to the investors. I still have one of them. So brittle, it kind of like falls apart, but I still kept it, which is nice. And I should have had it. I should show it because people love it. But that's what I used to secure my $50,000 investment.
• 9:59
  And so you walk out onto the show, you give these investors and very, you know, like mature, sophisticated investors this clay prototype. What is their reaction? Are they like, what the hell is this? Or are they like, oh, my God, I love this.
• 10:16
  You know, they were very kind to me. And I think because I'd already told the story of how well it worked and what it was doing, they understood what I was trying to get across. I mean, I think now they'd probably laugh me off the stage because they're, you know, 14 seasons in and people are much more prepared. But...
• 10:31
  And you have the ability to do that much more easily. But at the time, they got it because they were in the same boat as me. But they just understood it. The good part was all five sharks understood why a child would need this, that some kids need it way more than others. Did they want to necessarily invest? No. Some of the men didn't understand why.
• 10:50
  the need for it because they didn't care for their own children. You know, they maybe had nannies or they just weren't as involved or they just saw it as a single SKU product. The funny part is Mr. Wonderful said to me, he was pretty aggressive and was like, you know, this is a single product. This isn't a business. And I was like, well, it can be a business. Well, I can do this. You know, I was trying to make hype it up because I didn't really know what to say, but he was right.
• 11:12
  He was right. You know, seven years into my business, I not threw in the towel. I sold the company, thankfully. But I was done selling a single SKU product because it is extremely hard. There's a reason why when you go to retailers, you see 16 Gerber baby bottles. It's because they own that space in that retailer. And so if you're a little single SKU product and you see this all the time in the U.S., it's very hard to get the eyes of the consumer when you're that one little product up there, you know, off to the side.
• 11:42
  Oh my gosh, that's so true. I didn't think of it like that. Yeah, you just don't have enough space to capture the attention. Yeah, well, not just that, but the relationship. So they don't want to work with, and rightfully so, a buyer of a retailer doesn't have an easy time working with a thousand individual entrepreneurs that don't know what they're doing. You know what I mean? If they work with a Gerber or they work with whoever that is.
• 12:03
  they've got all their stuff in it. You know, it's just super easy. They're just feeding products in. Every year they're presenting their new stuff. Here's what we've got. Okay, we'll take seven of these, whatever. Us, it's like you're dealing with every single entrepreneur. So I try to remind entrepreneurs of that when they're reaching out to these buyers. Remember, know your stuff, be ready. They're not there to counsel you. They're not there to teach you. They are there to buy product for a retailer and make a smart decision. Yeah, okay, totally. Makes sense. They'll take it personally.
• 12:32
  So, okay, you get all the no's, then you get Barbara. She says, yes, she buys 15% of your company for $50,000. What happens? What happens after that? She actually bought 51% or 54%. I can't remember what we even agreed on in the episode, but she bought the majority percentage of my company.
• 12:51
  Oh, I thought it was 15%. That's what I read online. Oh, so she bought half of your company. Over half. And well, you know, see now I would never do that because now I have value to bring to the bank. But people ask me all the time, would you do that again? And I say a million times over because you have to understand she had everything to lose. And I had, I was bringing nothing to the table, but a good idea and some, you know,
• 13:16
  not even really sweat equity. I mean, what had I done? I'd baked some prototypes. So to be honest with you, you probably realistically would have gotten more. If you're meeting with an investor now, people really overinflate what their value is in the beginning with just an idea. There's so much to do. And the truth of the matter is that 50 grand that we agreed on, that was a drop in the bucket of what she actually had to invest.
• 13:38
  to launch this product and to say, like, we worked with a major drug company here, and we launched into 6,000 stores. Do the math. We're manufacturing, you know, all of these units for 6,000. And that's just one retailer. So she committed to doing all of that with me for seven years and still only had that percentage. So it was a dream scenario. I definitely had the best part of it, and she was so incredible for doing that with me.
• 14:07
  Oh my gosh, what are the kind of key things that you learned from her? Oh God, what didn't I learn from her? But I mean, some of it we learned together because Barbara was a real estate mogul when I met her. So she was so well known in the real estate space but she had never really done products. So that first meeting with that drugstore, we went into that together and she had not done one for a product before. And so the guy says, we want it in all these stores, can you ship it FOB China and all these things? And we're like,
• 14:34
  Sure. Yeah, definitely. We're thinking it's just like a sales-y type thing and we're going to nail this, you know. And we didn't know half the stuff we needed to know to work with this retailer. We didn't know we needed to be on the planogram. We didn't know so many things. And even Barbara at the beginning didn't know. So some of that we learned together in the beginning. Obviously now she is, oh my God, she's got hundreds of investments just from Shark Tank and then probably hundreds outside of that. So
• 15:01
  she knows more than I ever could, but we both learned so much together, you know, by trying to figure out, you know, how is this done exactly and done well. So did you work really closely, you know, on a daily basis over that seven years or were you kind of like you were building your own team and you were working wherever you were working and you would just check in with her? So mine is a little different because I was that pilot episode, you know, I filmed in, um,
• 15:27
  At the end of the year, 2008, we aired not until August of 2009. So we had a much bigger window than people have now. Things were just so much different than they are now. And then I was one of only, what, 10 people? No, not 10. Maybe three people she invested in that whole season because it was the first season.
• 15:44
  So there were very few people for her to communicate with, much more direct communication. I'd go up and stay at her house, things like that. Whereas now she's got, you know, a team that handles so much stuff. Even still, though, I was the business owner. So it was my job to figure all this out. You know, I was at home doing all of the work. And Barbara was more of a sounding board and an investor, as she should be. And I think people...
• 16:07
  That's one of the misconceptions when they see Shark Tank is they're, you know, they're going to be a part of my team. I was like, no, they're not a part of your team. Don't get it twisted that they're going to be doing the sweat equity part. That's you. That's you as the business owner. They're an investor. They're there to invest and sometimes advise if you're lucky. I had a dream scenario, though. Yeah, you had the great setup with her.
• 16:31
  You launched into 6,000 stores. I think I read that you kind of were at about 10,000 stores during your peak. So it was obviously a big retail play. Things are going really well. What wasn't going so well? What were the challenges during this time that kind of you, I don't know, maybe made you feel like I might quit. I might give this up. Like this is bad.
• 16:52
  One of the big ones was that same retailer I was just speaking of. We lost 70 grand on a deal to them because $70,000 completely gone in what's called chargebacks. So when you work with a retailer...
• 17:07
  you go in and there's certain fees for all the things you need to do. The EDI, which is their orders coming to you and going back. I mean, it's very, very complicated and people underestimate that as well. But then you get what's called a chargeback. And so if anything is done wrong in their processes, even if it's their fault oftentimes, and that was the case with this one, they'll take that money off of your invoice. So say you have $120,000 invoice coming from them that you're
• 17:35
  expecting to get paid for this inventory you've pushed out to all these stores and they mark 70 grand off of it there's not a lot of fighting and oh my god what happened with this one was um we didn't know it wasn't on the planogram like i said we didn't know what the planogram was at that point it was like what's a planogram deal
• 17:54
  So the plantogram is basically the map of the store. And when you go into retail, they're saying, okay, you know where Tylenol is always in the same place. Advil is always in the same place. You know where to go to get it. Those big guys can demand that space, and they probably don't even pay for it anymore. It's their spot. You have to really earn that spot, and you have to sometimes pay extra, basically. And that's...
• 18:16
  That's a whole nother more complex conversation, but we weren't on it. So what it means is your product goes to these stores. It's in these shippers in the back of the store. And think about it. When staff comes in that day to put product out, they're looking at this planogram. They're going, okay, Tylenol, filling that back up. We've got six. We're doing inventory. If yours is just one of the products in the back and it's not on that planogram, it may or may not go out.
• 18:41
  And so what happened was our Shark Tank went to air and we had all these customers. And again, this wasn't the time of, I think it was MySpace was out right then, not Facebook, not all this stuff, maybe Facebook the beginning. But there was no easy communication with these potential customers. Like now we could hop on a live and go, I'm so sorry, this is what's happening. You know, then it was just phone calls and emails. And basically customers were saying, we went looking for your thing at CVS and it's not there. We couldn't find it.
• 19:08
  Come to find out it was either in the back because it never got put out or it was in really weird places like over with the walking canes. And like back, there's like this whole spinny thing with walking canes and knee braces. And there's Ava hanging and like nobody's ever going to find it, you know, because that person in the store didn't know where to put it. And they were like, all right, here's the thing. Let's hang it here. And that was what caused us those 70,000 chargebacks. Yeah.
• 19:31
  Like, again, it's way more complicated, but it was not pretty. And it was devastating to us as a company or to me, you know, to lose essentially someone else's money because this is Barbara's money she's investing. And so I feel terrible. And then knowing that we have to make things right and fix all of that. So that was one of the biggest upsets.
• 19:50
  And also the moment for the customer, someone wanting to go into the store. They have intent to buy. They want Ava the Elephant. They go there. They can't find it. They're frustrated. That was the worst. What the heck? Oh, it was the worst. And it really tainted, you know. Same thing happened with kind of a morning show thing and us getting them shipped out fast enough. We underestimated just how much demand we were going to have. And then we weren't ready with the shipping side of it because, again, Shark Tank had just aired. We didn't even know what that was going to look like.
• 20:17
  So we had a little bit of backlash, not backlash, but for me, it was probably like 10 people, but it felt like 2000, you know, mad. Where's my product? You know, so yeah, lots and lots of challenges. I had a personal challenge of cancer. We may get into that. So yeah, it's been, it's not been an easy journey at all, but well worth it.
• 20:38
  When you had cancer, did you fully step back from the business and put someone else in place? Or were you like, I'm going to do it still? So the crazy part is I was diagnosed with cancer months after I filmed. So I filmed the show. I came home. I had a brand new baby at home. She was about six or seven months at the time. And I was learning this business. It was like, oh, what do you mean it's an FDA registered device? You know, all these things I was figuring out with Ava. How do we manufacture the design, the tooling?
• 21:05
  And I went to the doctor and was diagnosed with cancer. And I didn't really have a chance at that point. Everything had already been invested and done. And I think we were in production at that point. So no, I didn't step back. And it was a good thing that I didn't because it kept me busy. The company kept me focused and busy and hopeful. Like, what's going to come? How's this going to turn out? Was it challenging and really hard? Yes. I mean, obviously, I'm having radiation and all these things that...
• 21:32
  And the surgery itself that destroyed my world. But it kept me hopeful. And Barbara kept me hopeful and was really good to me during it. That is so wild to be facing all these things at once. And you know what it's done? It kind of traumatized me because now whenever something good happens, I always feel like it's something bad. I always get that one little feeling of something bad could happen after. But I've tried to get past that over the years.
• 22:00
  Yeah. Gosh, that's so full on. Over the next couple of years, you know, kind of going through your health battles and then going through these ups and downs of trying to figure out building this business. At what point are you kind of thinking, oh, maybe we should look at selling this business now? Like, what's the time? Like, how do you know the time is right to sell?
• 22:19
  As a founder, I think you always know, for me, it was a matter of just kind of spinning our wheels. Yes, we were still popular with people. Yes, people still loved Ava. Thank God we never got a bad review. We never got like none of the things that could have happened, you know, a lawsuit over the product. None of that happened. So that part was great. But we couldn't grow but so far with a single product. Like I said in the beginning, it was a single SKU product. So we knew we were either going to have to invest real big or
• 22:45
  launch a whole line of products, you know, that were medical-based, you know, children products or have it acquired. And so we started by licensing. I met with a company, a fantastic company called Baby Delight, and they licensed the product. They redesigned it slightly how I wanted it to kind of always be. And I was very happy with that licensing agreement. That was for about two years, I think. And then at the end of that, because it runs a term, you know,
• 23:13
  And that's when we decided we actually wanted to sell because I, when it was licensed, I got to step back. So I was like, okay, this is where I'm happy again. I get to be creative. I get to come up with stuff. I started a whole nother little business. It wasn't like Opu, but, you know, it really opened up my creative side again and my happy side again versus running the day-to-day of the business. And I realized it's time to sell.
• 23:34
  And could you not have stayed just licensing the business? Or was it more kind of, you know, it was the smart investment side of things to just sell and recoup the money for Barbara? Well, yeah, for both of us. And for you as well. Yeah, for me and her because it, yeah, while licensing is great, you're getting these smaller payments coming out, you know, every month or every three months, six months, whatever it is.
• 23:56
  And, yeah, there's not that big payout. And you're not able to really walk away in that sense because you're still the owner of the IP and you're managing the IP and that thing. So those kinds of things. So, yeah, for me, it was more of not a clean break from the brand because I stayed on even now with the company who acquired Ava. Yeah.
• 24:13
  I'm always connected to the story and the heart of it and how it came to be because I love the product and I love where it came from. But I didn't have to do any of the heavy lifting anymore. It was like, okay, now I get to do what I love best again is create. I didn't instantly though. I sold that and I took a pause, which I needed after seven years. I had my own mental health stuff I was dealing with from just too much and like traumas that I'd faced. And I decided to just take a pause and it was the best thing I could have done because it led me to this new company eventually.
• 24:42
  Wow. So what, like, how, how long did you pause for and what was the new light bulb moment for you?
• 24:49
  I guess that pause was, gosh, years, two, three years of Ava being sold under this new company and just, you know, being a little slightly involved on that on the PR side. But what I love about this new brand is it came to me the exact same way that Ava did. I needed it. I wanted to use this product, but it didn't exist. And so what happened was the type of radiation I had for my cancer, and I had it for three and a half years. Yeah.
• 25:15
  was ingested. So I'd have to eat. I'd have to basically go in, take this radioactive vial that was like this big, open it up with gloves on my hands, take out this pill that I couldn't touch. And then I had to eat it. And I was like, this doesn't, this can't even be normal, you know, because it was so strong. The radiation was so strong. And so I'd have to go into isolation when I had that.
• 25:37
  And when I did, it destroyed my gut, obviously, because it's going down through your whole body. And because I had that for so many years in a row, I started learning more about gut health. You know, how can I feel better, basically? I didn't know it was called gut health. It was like, that's like a whole thing now. But I just wanted to feel better. Yeah.
• 25:54
  And so I found, I started taking probiotics, learning about prebiotics and probiotics and kind of just doing my own study, which a lot of cancer survivors do. You know, they start to really get to know more about their health and become curious about all of it. And so I was learning as much as I could. And when I finally found a strain that worked for me, it was called Bacillus subtilis.
• 26:13
  I became even more curious. Why is this strain working for me? Because I tried probably 10 companies and I found one that worked really, really well. I felt better. I was regular. Like all of these things were fixed that were really bad from this radiation and from diet and everything else. And, um,
• 26:28
  And then I took that now competitor's product, which is now a competitor of mine, ironically, for like four years. I was a customer and I was taking this. But what it was, it was a chalky powder. I have these little demos here and these shot glasses of all things. But it was like a really chalky powder that you'd have to pour into a milk or something and stir up and then chug down. And then like half of it's still stuck in the cup. And I hated that part because I'm a busy mom and a business owner. And I was running out the door and...
• 26:56
  And I wanted something that was faster. The only other faster thing was these gummies. I hate gummies. I'm just not a candy fan. And I didn't like the sugar content of them. And then of course, pills. And so I thought with my product development knowledge and history, I thought, what if I made a better version? What if I did something that was unique in this space? And so I started searching for factories because the only way I was willing to do it this time around was if I could do it in the US, if I could actually manufacture here.
• 27:25
  And I found a factory in Georgia and started the whole conversation.
• 27:30
  I'm sorry. I answered the longest questions. You answer me and then I'm just like... No, I love that though. You live in Georgia, right? So it's like you're close to your factory now. Yes. Oh my gosh. Wow. It's wonderful. Both our packaging and our product are manufactured in Georgia. So it's like, it's a dream come true having done the exact opposite with my first product and never getting to meet the people who made it and go over and visit and move product. Right here, you know, people are employed making my product and that's just...
• 27:58
  And I'm so proud of that. That's a big moment for me. And when you think about like the model for this business, what are you doing the same and differently? And what I mean is like, are you getting an investor who knows something about something you don't know about? Are you doing retail or are you doing e-com? Are you, you know, will you go on Shark Tank for the publicity moment? Like, what are the things that you're like, I would definitely do this again? And what are the things that you're like, oh, hell no, I'm out of that? That is a...
• 28:26
  Fantastic question, and it actually tells anyone listening what might make a good business model. Ava was such a challenge because of the price point and the market. So Ava was a niche product that had this small market. It was kids that had a hard time with medication.
• 28:42
  you know, half of kids might be fine taking medication. The other half is who I had to reach. Then I had to convince the mom to actually buy the product, use the product, those types of things. And then it was a one-use product. So I had all of those things against me, regardless, like I said, of the rave reviews we got. It was such a small market. And then the margins were even smaller. So if I sold it to this drug store that I was mentioning for $5, and I made it, these are examples, if I made it for $2.50 and then I sold it to them for $5,
• 29:12
  And even if I sold into 6,000 stores, you do the math. There's not a lot of money coming in from that for me to do all the other stuff, the marketing, even the bookkeeping for the year. So I knew that I would never do another single SKU product with small margins in a niche market. I may help with one. I may invest in one down the road that's a good medical product, but I didn't want to do another one.
• 29:35
  And so when I started looking at this and the model of this and the margins were fantastic, much bigger margins allowing me to actually pay for marketing and do things I need to do. And then the market, you know, the multi-billion dollar market of probiotics, then it was like, okay, this is very interesting. So that was a no-brainer for me that margins and market were great.
• 29:57
  And then the other thing was retail. I knew I could go direct to consumer with this. I wanted to do it with a beautiful experience for my customer. So I taped this here so it wouldn't fall, but I'm going to rip it off so I can show you. This is what goes out to our consumers. And I wanted them to have just a real experience with our product versus going and getting
• 30:18
  another bottle at their local drugstore. This comes to them every month. So this little beautiful shipper goes to them. And it's missing a thing, an info sheet, but it's right here on top. But this is how it comes to them. And then this comes out. And so, it's hard to pull that out while I'm on the phone. But...
• 30:35
  This, they recycle, so it's all eco-friendly. I love that. I'm not shipping a box inside of a box inside of a box like Amazon does. And then this little tray, they keep it home, you know, the ones where they send you 15. And then this is how they track their Opu journey so they can mark off, you know, did they take it. All their packets are in there. Oh, that's clever.
• 30:52
  Yeah, and people have just loved our packaging, and they've really gotten a kick out of the design. But that was another thing that I knew I wanted to do is direct to consumer. Yes, we might be in a few retailers one day, but for right now, I love the model of just going direct to consumers and getting the feedback from them so quickly. I don't get that through a drugstore. I don't know what they did or did not like, whereas here they're messaging me, you know, I love, love, love this. Or if there is a challenge, then they presented it to us fairly quickly.
• 31:23
  And for this particular brand, obviously focusing on e-com and direct-to-consumer versus retail, what are the things that are shifting the needle for you in that marketing landscape now? Like, how are you reaching your customers? Is it through paid ads? Is it through TikTok? Is it through Facebook groups? Like, where are you reaching your target user? Yeah.
• 31:41
  I'll be honest. I'm learning that with this one. I've been extremely happy with our growth so far. It's all been word of mouth and me going to an event. So I basically go to local events, whether it's a charitable event that I'm involved with or it's an event right out here on the curb where little small businesses set up their tents. We've done a ton of those. And I stand out there and I let them sample the product because...
• 32:06
  What sets ours apart is the flavor. It's mint and mocha flavors. They're really delicious, light and airy kind of people say they're like pixie sticks or whatever consistency. And so getting out there and doing that and then that person tries it. They fall in love. They message. They say, I subscribed. I told my sister. And that has happened time and time and time and time again. And so that's been that's actually been really sweet to me this time.
• 32:29
  I've gotten to know customers. I know their journey. They've shared their challenges, you know, their health challenges and what it's done for them. Whereas the first time when I was on Shark Tank, it was like mass flow of orders and people. And then you get like complaints and you get this and you get, you know, all this stuff. Whereas this has been one customer at a time, knowing them by name, knowing how they're doing. I really appreciated that. So, but as far as the other stuff, I'm learning. Like, how do I do TikTok, you know, stuff? How do I, you know, how do I do all these things that Shark Tank gave me?
• 32:58
  for free last time. You know, it all just happened easily and kind of fell in my lap. I'm trying to, you know, I'm learning that with this new brand. And so far, so good. Yeah, it's interesting because it's so different to the first business. The first business, like you said, it was mass. It was like all lights are on. Everything is exploding, like crazy, crazy, crazy. Whereas this, you're able to take much more of a community-focused approach. It's grassroots. It's one customer at a time and truly getting to know customers.
• 33:25
  who your audience is. And it speaks volumes to your listeners because they always think they want that big bang. You know, everybody wants the, you know, multi-millions of eyes on their product and they don't realize just how sustainable and much better this is. What I'm doing here is sustainable. Anybody can go on and sell 500,000 units. And I know that sounds exciting, but
• 33:45
  That can fall just as quickly, you know, if you sell millions of dollars in a few nights. Whereas this has real staying power. You know, this is something I'm building that's going to be around for many, many years to come.
• 33:58
  Totally. And just everything, like it's a repeat purchase product, whereas Ava is like what you said, it's just a one-time purchase. It's very, very different. What I'm also really impressed talking to you is like, you had this crazy business that blew up overnight, like out of nowhere. And then you sold this business, but you're like, okay, hell yeah, let's do it again. And you're like, I'm getting my hands dirty. I'm out at the markets. I'm like out here meeting my customers, you know, kind of scrappy. I love that.
• 34:26
  Oh, you have to be too because, you know, I'm not an expert in probiotics. I learned it through my challenges, through what I was going through, through every bit of information I could devour basically through my factory who has been doing this for 30 years. You know, not my product, but, you know, blends of probiotics and enzymes.
• 34:43
  So I'm learning too. And so I need to hear their questions. I need to hear their feedback. I need to be there pitching myself. So like you said, if I decide, if I get an opportunity to maybe go back on Shark Tank this year, I'm ready to tell them about this brand. And I already know all those questions, you know, versus a deer in headlights. Because I felt that way when I first launched. It was like, well, I'm not a doctor and I'm not a nutritionist. How am I going to be the expert in this? That imposter syndrome kind of kicks in, you know, so...
• 35:11
  It's been good. It's been very, very good because it's allowed me to get to know the pitch of my own product. And for you, like going on Shark Tank, there's two sides to it. Yes, there's the investment side, but it's the publicity moment that I think is even more kind of powerful. Are you going to follow the path of fundraising or you'd kind of go on Shark Tank more as a one-off for the moment?
• 35:33
  If I go on Shark Tank, it will be to get another investment just because I feel like it's the only the right thing to do on it. I've loved the show. I'm so connected to the show. And I know people do go on for exposure, but I would use it to take a very small investment this time. I would not go on this time and give up half my company. No way, no how. That wouldn't happen. I'd fight tooth and nail because I know so much more now. But.
• 35:56
  I'd go on to have a new partnership or even one with Barbara again, not that I'd have to do that through the show. But, you know, if there's the right shark on there that has a whole different skill set or a whole different, you know, group of people like Mark Cuban's a great example. He just launched a whole pharmaceutical thing to help people get their medications that they can't otherwise get. So someone who has a heart for that kind of wellness space, that might be a great fit for me.
• 36:22
  I'm not opposed to taking both an investment and, you know, the exposure, obviously. So we'll see. I don't know if I'll get the opportunity again, but I think it'd be pretty cool to share it that way. You know, here I was and now look at me now, you know, I'm here again and this is all the things that I've learned.
• 36:37
  100%. Gosh, I'm like, I'm ready for that episode. Yeah, me too. Bring it back. Part two. Yeah. What advice do you often give out early stage founders? I know you've shared so much in this episode already, but what could you leave us with? What is your best piece of advice? Yeah.
• 36:55
  I would tell anybody in the consumer product space, that's really all I can speak to, that they better be super, super passionate about whatever it is they're thinking about going into. They're going to be selling it day in and day out for years on end. They're going to be investing their own money. They might be taking an investment from someone else, which some people think that's easier, but it can be much harder, much more pressure. You know, the...
• 37:20
  The need to pay it back to feel like you're actually going to get that person their money back is not as easy as people think. And so they better be on fire for this product because, you know, you'll meet these entrepreneurs are like, oh, I'm scared to pitch my own product or I'm too shy. And truth be told, I can be kind of shy about stuff, but I have to push myself out of that comfort zone. I battle really severe anxiety.
• 37:42
  I've had to get used to even doing these types of things or even the shows like Shark Tank and really push myself. So people are going to have to be 100% committed because it's your baby. Nobody's going to sell it for you. You've got to be out there really pounding the pavement every day.
• 37:59
  Yes, absolutely. And I also feel like it's okay to be vulnerable and it's okay to be out there being like, hey, I am a bit nervous, but I'm trying. And like, here's my story and I hope it connects with you. And it's so good for you when you do that. Yeah. When you, you as entrepreneur, if you can say that to people, they will relate to you because they feel the same way. And, and there'll be so much kinder than you going out and acting like, you know, it all, like I've never been that person. And it's,
• 38:24
  It's served me very well. And I have learning disabilities that I've struggled with my whole life. And so I've always kind of had that like imposter syndrome of should I be in the room? And I have to beat that out of myself and say, it's okay. You know, you know what you know, and you're good at what you're good at. And it's okay that you're not good at, you know, all these other things. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 38:50
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 39:14
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 39:37
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that. Thank you.
• 39:53
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 40:17
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 40:40
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.