Latest / NO FILTER / Season 1_ Sidebar 2(M4A_128K)

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Season 1_ Sidebar 2(M4A_128K) · NO FILTER

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to Proof Sidebar. New episodes of Proof,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: covering the case of Lee Clark and Cane's story, are
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: released every Monday, but sometimes on Thursdays. You'll see many
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: episodes like this one sidebars. It's a chance for us
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to answer listener questions about the cases we cover on
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Proof and talk about things going on behind the scenes,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: as well as other true crime topics. I'm here this
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: week with Jasinda Davis and Kevin Fitzpatrick of Red Marbled Media,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: as well as Dan Whitrock aka Dan the Cameraman.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Hi, Dan, and welcome to the show.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tell us a bit about yourself and how you got
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: end up here on sidebar with us.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Hey.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: For many years have been working as a director photography
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: with Red Marble, shooting interviews around the country and the recreations.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: And they asked me to come out on the road
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: to down to Georgia to kind of film with them
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: and do some kind of partial behind the scenes partial
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: shooting the interviews with some of the real people as well.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I just thought it was a great idea,
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: and I just really like the focus on people who
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: have been wrongfully convicted and at least finding proof to
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: see whether people are actually in there for the right
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: reasons or not for any reasons really at all.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And what were your impressions of Rome Georgia.
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: Rome Georgia is a nice, little quaint part of the
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: country and it's sort of cute. It's just a nice
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: cast of characters, let's say, it's a really nice, just
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: melange of different types of people that we kind of
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: got to interview and see and from. Yeah, and just
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: from more than city center and more out in the backwoods.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: And one thing I want to chime in real quickly
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: with about Dan is so Dan went down to film
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: a bunch of this stuff eventually, so the audience knows
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: we're going to be putting some videos up on a
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: YouTube channel where people can see.
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: Visuals some of these segments that we're doing. And we're
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: just sort of getting the first few episodes of the
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: podcast out and then we will we will add some
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: of these video clips so that people can see some
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: of this stuff and see the characters, which I think interesting.
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that is a really interesting aspect because
• 2:32
  Speaker 6: it's one thing to hear from people, but then to
• 2:35
  Speaker 6: see them and what they look like and their the
• 2:37
  Speaker 6: environment where we're doing the interview adds a lot to
• 2:40
  Speaker 6: the podcast, I think.
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: And I don't want to give anything away, but there
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: are at least one or two sort of people who
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: are involved in this story who you will need to
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: see what they're saying.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, the video will be extremely important for
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: some we cover on this podcast.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Audio alone won't cut it.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed, But Dan got thrown into this case kind
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: of immedia ross.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I guess how much did you know before you got
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: down there?
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: Actually I knew absolutely nothing.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: So you just got jumped from the van and suddenly
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: you were driving off to middle of nowhere Silver Creek
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: and hearing the story starting following one of you.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, even which somewhat is like kind of
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: fun to sort of piece things together. But yeah, sometimes
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: it's like, you know, a little confusing to like slowly
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: piece things together. It took a while to fully grasp,
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: but it was. Yeah, those first few days was definitely
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: slowly figuring out like who we talking to? Who is
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: this person? We're rolling up to their house and and uh, you.
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: Know, one of the interesting things, just for a little
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: quick backstory for Ja Sin and I is we've worked
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: with Dan for years, I mean ten years, probably Dan,
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: And he's shot interviews for us all over the country
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: and all over the world for some of the TV
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: shows that we do, and so we hire him all
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: the time because we trust him and because we like
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: working with him. So I think when Dan got this
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: assignment in Georgia, he treated it like any other assignment,
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: Like I'm going to go film something for Red Marble.
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: I'm going to go down there with Kevin or Jesinda
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: and we're going to film something, and you know, I
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: don't need to know that much about it. I'm going
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: to make it look great and I'll probably learn something
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: when I'm there. And he sort of got embedded into
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: this story with you too, And I think he grew
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: to really really enjoy the story and enjoy working with you,
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: and so he became part of the story because he
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: sort of became embedded in it. But I don't think
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: that was in his mind when he got on a plane.
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, you didn't know that you'd have Mike's running
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: twenty four to seven and your every conversation being recorded.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize on the show he just behind the camera.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I did not realize that. Yeah, when Yeah, I
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: was not I was like, oh, I'll be no one
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: will ever hear me, no one wants to see me.
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: And now now look at you Dan, And now.
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I got the phone call.
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: I guess I had already left the first trip and
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: I got like a call from Descenda or something saying,
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: so Dan's in the show.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Now It's like, okay, well it's hard.
• 5:13
  Speaker 6: I mean we talked about this a little bit on
• 5:15
  Speaker 6: the first sidebar, but when you're done filming an interview
• 5:19
  Speaker 6: or recording an interview and we all get back in
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: the van.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: You have to talk about it.
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: There's so much to unpack from these interviews that just
• 5:27
  Speaker 6: became a natural thing that we'd all start talking about it.
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: And some of the best moments are during those conversations.
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Dan had sort of rigged the entire car with
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: cameras and microphones so that all of those conversations could
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: be documented, and it was really interesting. And you also
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: have to remember that you're constantly being recorded.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I know, one thing we talked about a lot on
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: the road was the pillow. I feel like the pillow
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: is one of those things in this case, it hasn't
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: very outside present where it's part of almost every aspect
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: of the story, and yet you keep coming back to
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: the central question of like why why the pillow?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Why are we still talking about it?
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: But we have to do because it's one It's the
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: thing that basically unites every witness in this case. I
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: can think of maybe one person we talked to who
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: was like, pillow, what pillow. Other than that, everyone else
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: is like, yeah, the pillow. That's why they're guilty. And
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: if they know nothing else about Lee Clark or Kaine's
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: story of this case, they know that there's a pillow involved,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: and it proves guilt somehow.
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: And it feels like it's almost it's almost mythical, right,
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: Like everybody in this case, as you said, sort of
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: knows about it or has a theory about it, but
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: it seems like very few people actually know all the
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: facts about it, and that I find very interesting as
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: a story point. Everyone thinks they know everything, but very
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: few seem to.
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: I think it is interesting because the pillow kind of
• 6:57
  Speaker 6: took on a life of its own, where once people
• 7:01
  Speaker 6: found out about a pillow, it seems like the rumors
• 7:05
  Speaker 6: about this pillow spread very quickly, and like you said, Kevin,
• 7:10
  Speaker 6: everyone knows about it, or they think they know about it,
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: but nobody knows the truth about it or the facts
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: about it. And I don't even know if we do
• 7:20
  Speaker 6: still entirely.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: But do you I'm sure, I'm sure we don't.
• 7:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah. I think one of the things that stood out
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: to me is Amanda and Kenneth, who both have pretty
• 7:31
  Speaker 6: good memories about that night. They they, of course it's
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: it's not perfect memory, but they have very different memories
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: about the pillow. Amanda remembers that there was a hole
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: in the pillow, and Kenneth says, no, no, no, there
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: was no hole. It was more it was more like
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: wrapped around the gun. And I found that interesting because
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: you know, they have been together for twenty five years
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: now and they were both there that night, and even
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: their memories of it differ.
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: I remember when we were interviewing Kenneth and Amanda had
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: said that they didn't hear the gunshot go off, and
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: Kenneth had said he didn't hear the gunshot go off,
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: and I just I just sort of didn't buy that.
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: And then when Kenneth explained later how the pillow would
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: have been wrapped around the gun, in his mind, there
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: was bent then I started to understand that maybe it
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: was he was using it to muffle the sound or
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: someone was using it to muffle the sound, and that
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: was sort of a big moment in my head, like, well,
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: there could be there could be some murder thing going
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: on here, because why would you cover the gun like
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: that the.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: Thing was if it was covered, because the thing is
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: Angela Bruce is the exact opposite in what she says
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: Lee specifically said at that party, which is the pillow
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: was over Brian's head or at least in front of
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: the gun.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she does say the pillow I was placed were
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Brian's head, which you know, it's a couch cushion, it's not.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I'm still a bit confused about what is meant by that.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: But it does mean that there if you know Angela
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: Bruce's story, which is the one that ties me there,
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: specifically claiming this specific thing and putting the pillow over
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: his head, it does mean the pillow has to due
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: to forensics when they look at that has to have
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: a hole through it.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: If you've shot in the head through the pillow, there
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: should be a hole in that pillow.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: That goes straight through.
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there should be there shouldn't theory then be fabric
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: inside the entry room, I would imagine.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I wanted to ask you guys, what is
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: your opinion on skull and crossbones.
• 9:43
  Speaker 6: I don't think anything of it. I think kids like
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: to draw skulls and crossbones and pirates and I don't know,
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: I don't. I don't think of it as anything other
• 9:54
  Speaker 6: than what it is.
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's the It's the ultimate warning symbol, right.
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: It was sort of created for even people who were literate, like,
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: don't drink this, don't come near here, like it's dangerous.
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: I think that's still sort of all embedded in us.
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: I mean, go back to when we were all kids
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: watching There's Warner Brothers cartoons.
• 10:15
  Speaker 6: That's true, and think of it like that.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: But I don't think of it as like a satanic symbol.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I don't think of it as one. I mean, so
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: in the in the show, you heard that Debbie Kelly,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the neighbor of the Stories, who cleaned their house and
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: found this notebook with the skull and crossbones on it,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: has a very strong reaction to the skull and crossbones
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: a symbol to her signifies something very alarming.
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: But it's also it's a It's literally one of the
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: images associated with Bone Thugs and Harmony is just a
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: skull and crossbones of just like that's you know, which
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: we all know is a band that all the kids liked.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: You know. It's just an image that yeah, is like
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: you know, on their T shirts and like stuff like that.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: Like it's just yeah, it seems like it's it's a
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: totally meaningless thing in terms of like you know, them
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: going they're going to kill somebody or something like, just like, oh,
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: this is like, you know, the image that's associated with
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: their favorite band.
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: It seems to me that it's a symbol that one
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: can read some level of importance into if a crime
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: has occurred or an accident has occurred, you want to
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: make look as though we're a crime. It's very easy
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: to take that image and go, well, look right here,
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: which I think it was probably just harmless.
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: The other thing about the rule book is, and I
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: don't understand this to Susan, you can explain it from
• 11:43
  Speaker 6: a legal perspective, is how can you talk about it
• 11:47
  Speaker 6: and use it as evidence in a trial when you
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: don't have it, when there's no proof it even exists
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: other than her word like, how how is that able
• 11:59
  Speaker 6: to come into the trial.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Because the jury's asked to evaluate her testimony about it,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: and they can choose to believe her or not believe her.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: But the lack of the document itself doesn't affect the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: ability of the jury to hear it.
• 12:12
  Speaker 6: Is this something that the defense I should have or
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: could have And maybe they did object to it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: They objected for other reasons, but not in terms of missibility.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, the fact they couldn't find the physical object
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can't talk about.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: It at the trial. Okay.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Of course, what's interesting to me is there's no indication
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: they ever actually did try to find it. They never,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: for instance, got a warrant to search Kane's trailer.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: They never.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Try to interview June Kane's mother or his father about it.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: They don't actually look for it. They just kind of
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: accept that, Okay, someone saw it. The end, we don't
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: need to worry any more about it. And then we
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: did hear from him this episode, But we talked about
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Charlie Childers and his brother Wayne Childers, who were probably
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the I want to say, pivotal witness in this case,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: at least for Lee, for Cain, there's obviously more evidence
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: about his involvement because he was there that night. He
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: was in the room. There's no question that he was
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: there when it happened. But for Lee, it's a different story.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: The evidence that he was there that night basically comes
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: from Charlie Childers seven months after Brian's death. He was
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: a family friend of the Bowlings and some people were
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: call seeing him there in the trailer that night. He
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: seems to have been there legitimately, but police didn't talk
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: to him at the time, and it's only a May
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: after Cain and Lee's arrest that he's actually interviewed. And
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: according to Dallas Battle because the statements, as he saw
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Lee running through the yard of the trailer that night
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: after the gunshot went off.
• 13:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean remember when we were down there trying,
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: you know, talking to people investigating, and you know, it
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: became clear that Charlie is such an important witness because
• 14:08
  Speaker 6: he's the one, he's the only one there that night
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: who says that he saw someone running and then picked
• 14:15
  Speaker 6: out Lee. That it became very clear, Susan, that we
• 14:20
  Speaker 6: had to do whatever we could to find him. And
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: as everyone heres an episode four, it's not easy to
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: find him. Everyone knows him, Everyone knows Charlie, everyone knows
• 14:32
  Speaker 6: where they lived, everyone knows that he used to work
• 14:35
  Speaker 6: at the Silver Creek Mini mart. And just our luck,
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: you know, a few months before we get down there,
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: something happens to the family and they move out their
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: their childhood home and no one knows where they are.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if we'd done the year earlier, it's been a
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: lot easier. Yeah, you have some questions this week. We
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: have one from Ginger Baiden, who wrote in to say
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I'm a little confused today. Capri said she was talking
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: with Brian on the phone phone, then got disconnected from
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: the call and called back, and someone else answered. I
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: believe Brian's answered he was clutching the phone when they
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: ran in the room after he was shot.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: How can both be true?
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: The phone sequence is a little complicated, and everyone now
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: has mostly forgotten it, which is why you don't hear
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: audio and the show them explaining what was going on,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: because for those parts they don't remember it. From trial testimony,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: what seems to have happened is that when when the
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: gun goes off, family rushes in, they find Brian on
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: the clutching a phone in his hand, or hits a
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: phone with him and the family wants to call nine
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: one one, so they grab the phone and they're dialing out,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: and it was like an old school cordless phone, and
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: as they're trying to dial out, for some reason, the
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: line does not disconnect, Caprice is still on there, so
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: they try and hang up. They turn the phone back on.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Capris is still on the line the other end, and
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: she hears them shouting and they're trying to hang up
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: on her and failing initially, and then finally the phone
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: turned off, the line goes dead. She hears the you know,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the dial tone on her end, and that's when the
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: families that were called nine one finally. But that's why
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: the sequence of events is kind of confusing there.
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I wonder if they had I keep thinking they
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: had call waiting, right, do you remember call waiting from? Yeah?
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Great, Kevin.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: Do you I remember call waiting?
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I remember call waiting. I think you and I
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: are the only ones old enough to understand called waiting.
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: But basically, yeah, if you're on the phone with someone,
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: you could click the button and you could hit another line,
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: or if someone's calling in, you could click and answer
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: a second incoming call, so you wouldn't hang up on
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: the other person. So if Caprice is still on the
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: line and they're trying to to dial out, they have
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: to hang up on her first. But it's almost like
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: every time they hit the hang up button, it would
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: come back to her. I don't know if that's true.
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: That's just like in my head, I've always wondered out.
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: That's that's how it worked, And and call waiting was
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: pretty stand there in the mid nineties, so it's possible
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: that they were just having a hard time hanging out
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: in all that chaos.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: We also have a question from Evan Fitzgerald, who asks
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out how the girlfriend wouldn't have heard
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: a noise. Is there a bang where a noise is
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: so loud that a phone doesn't transmit the sound. I
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: don't think that's a there's a bang where it's so
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: loud the phone doesn't pick it up. But I will
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: say I have encountered this issue in other cases before,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: where there's been someone on a phone when a shot
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: was or was not fired, And my takeaway is that
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: you're not always going to hear a gunshot through the phone.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: For whatever reason. It seems that this scenario happens. I
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: don't know if it's commonly, but at least in other
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: cases I've come across where for whatever reason, again that the
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: shot is not get transmitted over the line.
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm not, you know, a sound technician in any way,
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: but I do think that it's reasonable to assume that
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: if whatever sort of sound range one of those receivers has,
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: you know, or the phone handset has, that, if it's
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: so loud or there there a sound level that isn't
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: sort of picked up by that particular microphone, I think
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: that's possible, or it's just it sounds just like something
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: else other.
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: Than a gunshot. Well, I've always wondered too, because the
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: people in the trailer, though, also say they didn't hear.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Well, they heard a noise, they heard a very loud
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: something which they did not register as a gunshot, but
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: they heard something.
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: But I don't know that gunshots are necessarily recognizable as
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: a gunshot if you're not familiar with what it sounds like, right,
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: But if you're not expecting it and you're it's out
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: of the blue, would you would you automatically say, oh,
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: that was a gunshot, or would you say, oh, what
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: was that noise?
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know, so no solid answer there.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: But we do know is that Caprice the phone was
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: connected to her phone when the shot went off. There's
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: testimony that when the family came in, they saw the
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: light in the phone was still on. They could hear
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Caprice in the other end saying like, what's going on,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: what's going on? So they could hear her and she
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: could hear them. So the line was connected when the
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: shot went off, whatever else happened.
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: One of the things I find really fascinating about this
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: episode is you guys have captured and laid out the
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: people who are essentially the witnesses in the story right
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: in this one episode. And I think that that's really
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: interesting for the audience to sort of get that that
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: laid out at one point, Like you've got Caprice and
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: she's the closest thing We've got to somebody else who
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: was in that room right, Like, she wasn't there, she
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: didn't have eyes on it, but she was hearing what
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: was going on in that room and what she thinks
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: happened versus what Dallas tells her. I mean, she's the
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: closest thing is you've got to a witness to the
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: room that night, and then you introduce the other people,
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: you know, Angela and Deborah Kelly and Charlie Childers, And
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: I think it's fascinating that, you know, all of these
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: people are are going to be the ones who play
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: a role in these two guys being convicted.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, outside of Brian's family, Caprice, Angela, Bruce, Charlie Childers,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and Thybe Kelly are those sort of main fact witnesses.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: In this case.
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: It'll become an interesting thing for the audience the rest
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: of the show figuring out who do you believe? Who
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: do you believe? And did the police get their statements
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: correct and does somebody have a reason to lie? And
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: there's I think the stories of these four will become
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: very interesting throughout the entire season.
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: So, Kevin, You're right, I mean, Caprice's is the only
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: other person who could hear what was going on in
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: that room other than Caine. And as people know from
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: the first couple episodes, Susan had reached out to Kane
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: and we talked to Kane's mom and we were really
• 21:12
  Speaker 6: really hoping that we could connect with him. And it
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: took a while, but Susan I still remember the day
• 21:19
  Speaker 6: you called me and said, guess who just called.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: You?
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Knew too?
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I knew right away. It was still hard
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: to believe because it had been a while, but it
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: was certainly exciting. And next episode being Fromkin here from Kane,
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: and you'll actually be able to hear some audio from
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: from Susan's conversations with Kane.
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: And he is, you know, I mean, he's the only
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: one who knows for sure what happened inside that room
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: that night. And I think it's amazing that you that
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: you guys got him makes the story that much more
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: sort of intense detail. It's pretty compelling stuff.
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: It's pretty fantastic. So tuned for episode five on Monday.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of Proof Sidebar. We're
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: back Monday with episode five, and if you have any
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: questions for future Sidebar episodes, don't forget to send them
• 22:20
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• 22:24
  Speaker 1: social media, we are Proof Crime Pod. You can also
• 22:27
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• 22:29
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