Latest / Skin Anarchy / Rae Morris, Top Global Makeup Artist, Founder, and Best Selling Author

Transcript

Rae Morris, Top Global Makeup Artist, Founder, and Best Selling Author · Skin Anarchy

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Swink Care Anarchy.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is Ekta, and wow, do I have a guest for you guys today?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is an episode that has been a long time in the making.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I am super excited, um, super humbled, super honored.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot wait.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I just can't wait.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the iconic and one and only makeup artist, Miss Ray Morris.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Ray is renowned as the most influential makeup artist in the world.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: She is um one of the best-selling authors.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Her books are amazing.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: She's literally written the book on makeup.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, she was one of the longest or the longest serving makeup director for L'Oreal Paris.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's just there's the list goes on.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Ray.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for this opportunity and this honor.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: That intro, I was like, gee, he wrote that.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I wonder who that amazing person is.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't write that, but yeah, that's that's an incredible intro.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, wow.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's been a while coming, and I'm here in sunny but cold Bondi in Sydney, Australia, and I'm very excited to be talking to you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have been meaning to go to Australia.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: My cousin is actually in Sydney, so yeah, I'm I'm glad that you're, you know, I'm glad everything is good.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to get started.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I want to learn all about your magnificent career.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I want you to tell us all the details where it all started for you with makeup and yeah, just everything.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, um, it's kind of a it's a funny story.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a story that um I always start by saying it was probably three seconds of Naomi Campbell's life that she never will remember, never has remembered, but completely changed mine.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so basically, in a I'll try and do a long story, shortish, because quite a long one.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I my background dyslexic, failed art at school, not very good at school, wasn't even good at art either.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I became a hairdresser, and I was asked to accompany.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: We had there was a pageant in Istanbul and Turkey, it was called Best Model of the World pageant.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was asked to accompany an Australian entrant who had very crazy Afray hair, and I went with her, and then there was uh Naomi Campbell was a guest judge, and this is in her prime, right around the um George Michael Too Funky film clip era.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking that era, and um I I was like really young and and very nervous to be in her presence.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened, her makeup artists they must have had an argument, something happened.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: He walked out and she just looked at me and said, You do my lips, and in absolute fear and horror, because of one I'd never done makeup in my life until it was named you cambell.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember looking over and she was really distracted.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: She had two mobile phones and was smoking.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember looking at the table and just seeing like clear lip gloss, and I thought, well, I can't go too wrong here.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, it was a time where before the internet even existed, and I all I did was put clear lip gloss on Ami Campbell, and I was photographed, and then I was thrown into this international makeup artist career.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And on the truth is, I kind of lied, yeah, I kind of lied for a little while.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: With that, I came back to Australia and I was like, Oh, you're this international makeup artist.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I basically had I used to get assistants who knew more than me on jobs to help me through it, and then but I must say, moving forward, I did get um training, and I believe I got trained by one of the greatest makeup artists that ever lived.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: His name was which he passed away, but his name was Richard Sharon.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: He was David Bowie's makeup artist, and I was, yeah, I was one of his last students.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: He was colorblind and and trained me and said, move to Sydney, come and assist me.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the rest is history.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, wow, and I'm sure you're leaving out a ton of details.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably yeah.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't even, I have no words.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's some that's phenomenal.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, do you are you still in touch with Naomi or like how did that what happened next?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was kind of it was like a like honestly, it was a moment, and um, I have never worked with her, like properly professionally worked with her, but I have friends who have, and she never remembers that moment.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, why would she?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: She's probably had 5,000 people do it.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just it's so amazing that you can just be put like fake, put in the right place at the right time.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and the funny thing was, I must admit, a lot of my career was driven, I'll be honest, by anxiety because I didn't know you could say no.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when I, you know, when she said do my lips, I mean, I probably should have said, Look, I'm not a makeup artist, but I just went, okay, okay.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then even coming back to Australia, it was like, can you do this job?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, yep, okay.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just have this fear inside.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, because I didn't have an art background, I wasn't that kid that could draw, or you know, you see so many art makeup artists, and they're they've got, you know, degrees in art, or not even that, they're just really good at art.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was never that kid.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what I used to do is practice.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, actually, in the early days of my career, I lived with two fabulous drag queens.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is another moment.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my, it's it's embarrassing, but it's the truth.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: When I came back, I was asked by um makeup schools, they're like at the tape, we call them takey.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what you'd call them in America, but they're like a college, you can go and do courses.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you'll yeah, yeah, yeah, trade school.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Oh, look, in the school holidays, will you teach a makeup course?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I in my head, I'm like, okay, I've only put the work also named me Campbell.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to say no.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, it's school holidays.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: They'll just be school kids, they'll be fifty, you know, kids.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And in my time, it's not like this now, but hairdressing back then, you do you do basic makeup.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I was a model for about three seconds in the 80s, so I had a little bit of under actually no, I had no understanding, I'm lying.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I went to this course, I turn up, I turn up this college thinking I've got these little kids for school holidays, and I turn up, and Cave College had gotten all their like teachers, directors of makeup education to have this two-week course with me to update their skills.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I walked into this room and I went, yep.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And again, didn't know that I could say no.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I did, I manipulated these people to like I what I did, I never, is it true?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I never demonstrated a single thing, and I'll do things like I'd go, okay, so today we're gonna do red lips.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, what all of you in the class did a red lip, and then what I would do, I'd walk around the class and like literally look and learn and find those tips.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Then I'd go to the other side of the room and just teach what I just saw three seconds ago, and I made the students do all the demonstrations, and then fast forward like 20 years later, I did see one of the students, and he did hand on hard, he said to me it was the best course I ever did because it wasn't like one teacher doing one face.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: We did we saw how other people taught, we saw it, and I was like, wow! So I taught myself makeup, isn't that bad?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's so bad.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: That is amazing.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's so like that is don't recommend it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: That is no, no, that is like the coolest story I've ever honestly, because I believe in learning in so many different ways, and that is so neat.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you know, you see somebody else do it, and then you kind of pick out what your style is.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it and it's you can one thing I really learned about makeup too, and this is like if there's any up-and-coming or new newbies in the makeup artistry world, people who want to be professional makeup artists.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I always thought it was this all about being creative, and I learned no, it's there's actually me now I've learned there's there's a science to beauty.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I got right into the Fibonacci sequence, we can go on to that in a moment, but um this, and I think what I did, and and makeup there, there is a science, it's all about you know, lines and and the face and features and and how to open or shade.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And because my teacher, Richard Sharra, who was who invented Ziggy Stardust, he actually was colorblind.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I'm not even kidding, when he was teaching me, he'd say things like, is this blue or red?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was a joke.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I didn't understand.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: But what he taught me, because he was colorblind, he could completely transform someone.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So he taught me a lot about understanding the face, how to lift a face.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think once you can teach theory to anybody, the creativity I think comes after you understand that part first.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that helped me because if I was just throwing in just to be creative, and I see a lot of that with artists these days, we get exceptionally creative people, but doesn't always suit the face, or it's not always quite, you know what I mean?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: That they I think it's a great way to learn.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's encouraging for anyone who thinks they're not creative at all.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can teach people to be creative in a more of a science kind of base.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's so interesting?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I am just thinking about his, you know, um, your mentors, like, you know, perspective is like, I mean, when you do makeup and you're colorblind, it's almost as if you're looking at the contours and the highlights of the face more than anything, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's brilliant.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: That is, yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you already helped me.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: You already helped me.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to see things how he saw things.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when he was teaching me or when I was assisting him, I would put on, we call it cellophane here.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what the alternative is, but you can put like black and white um film in front of your eyes to make everything look black and white.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I used to stick these bits of um black and white um plastic onto my into glasses so I could see, and it was so fascinating because when I mean, sure, I I wouldn't wish to be colourblind, but I did see a benefit.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I saw that he was so he colour wasn't because with colour, you know, there's so much it what it like it light and shade, and then you can have a darker colour, but if it's a dark colour that's shiny or shimmery, it acts more like a light, lighter color.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And but when you make things black and white, it's a really it's actually a tool that I took with me when I was teaching, and I still teach now, but with up and coming makeup artists to do that because you actually get to see what you're doing to the face with light and shade.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's very powerful.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that sounds.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, you said you don't have an art background, but oh my goodness, like that is such a beautiful way to look at, you know, anything, I think, with artistry.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's because you know, color, you're right, color takes away a lot of the um, I I want to call it like these subsenses that we have.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like every sense like has like a you know, like a level on it.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if we're only seeing like bright red, we might miss like the little hints of like how the shadows fall, or you know what I mean?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that is so beautiful.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's all yeah, yeah.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was just gonna say one, just how powerful are makeup.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like one thing, so like women and men, I always get asked this question, you know, what are the things that I do?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I can do on my face to make my face look younger.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't really like that word younger, like the word healthier, but um, but a simple thing like you know, growing up is to put is like really shimmery, you know, silvery shine under the eyebrow bone to make you know to define that area.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens, and I learned this when I did that black and white trick, when you shimmer areas of the face, you make those areas can they can look puffier, larger, even more wrinkly.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it was one of these things that, like, even this big highlight craze, yeah, you can make the skin look shinier, but it can also make areas look crepey.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and so it's again learning um where to put light and shade in the face, especially as you age.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that I I never forgotten, and still in my to this day, I think it's a really important thing to learn.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right, you do miss the details because color can be so distracting.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's an amazing tip that you just told me because I, you know, I think it makes a lot of sense.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that if you put highlight, it could make your face look puffier or like, you know, because that it makes sense what you're saying, you know?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk about right.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to tell us, um, you know, I have so many questions, and I want you to tell me, like, so what happened with the whole book?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when did the books come into the picture?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's oh my gosh, your book is on my nightstand right now.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: I read it every night, I look at everything.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I just I'm just obsessed, and everyone's out there.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, seriously, it's amazing.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's amazing.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, anyone who has an interest in makeup, like just opening your book is like, wow, I love it.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to know everything about that journey and how you got into it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So what happened then?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like again, being dyslexic, it's really surprising.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Even hearing that word author, I still go, Who are you talking about?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Can't be me.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for me, one thing, being dyslexic is a big problem.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And two, I found this how it sort of started, it was um with cooking books.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't cook either.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I used to find it really hard to like Jamie Oliver's probably the perfect example.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: What really attracted me to him is he spoke to me like um I understood something, and he made it very simple.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And there's always a visual.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I like the fact that whenever I tried one of his recipes and I read his book or watched him on the TV, it was the same.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: There was this language that I understood.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, makeup, this because I've had to learn it from kind of the science side or that black and white stuff that I just told you about.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I've got to make this really simple.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So what happened was this another one of my crazy moments, and I still can't believe what happened, happened.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I got approached by Alan and Unwin to do a makeup book.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I didn't know that you could say no to things.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, okay, didn't tell while this was like sick.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: But what happened was I, because I don't read a lot, I didn't, this is so embarrassing to even admit this.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know who Alan and Unwin were.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the women that would meet me, that would take me to a coffee shop, we'd have this massive talk, but their ideas for me just felt a little bit dated.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was more like that paper, that really nasty sort of cheap paper that you you know that when you buy a nice magazine, you used to have the bit they'd stick on the back, like it was a free brochure or something.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was going down that path.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, I need supermodels and I need photographers, and I and I didn't kind of realize the opportunity that was sitting in front of me.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, they came back a second day, had another big meeting again, not in their office.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in the same cafe, and they just kept wanting these same ideas, and I went back and said, no, I really think it should be this and should be that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, so then the third meeting happened, and I was my ego really kicked in because I had to cancel a really big job.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was with Pink, I think, at the time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I had there were thank goodness it it all worked out, but I was really annoyed.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my agent's like, right, it's a book publisher, you you can't turn this down.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, so I went to the meeting, and halfway through it, they were asking me the same questions.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: We were saying exactly the same thing, and I turned, I was like, okay, so by the way, I don't even know who Alan and Armand are.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, have you tell me a book that published I might even heard of?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And look, and I might I just remember that moment where they pulled out Lord of the Rings and on Chanteram or Harry Potter or something massive, and I just sat there and I just died.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and they said to me, Yeah, like we actually never chase um authors, you're like the first one ever.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then she went through all the authors who had gone to a hundred publishing houses.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, anyway, like even my own agent who worked for Sony Music said the same thing.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: He said, It's like Sony's turned up on your door going, Do you want a contract?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I was so ungrateful.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea how lucky I was.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when I went and did it, we we met sort of halfway on I need, you know, I need a girls that could sit in front of a camera, I want a photographer that I know, blah, blah, blah.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I honestly thought this is never gonna sell.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what I did do was I wrote it from a place of if you knew nothing about makeup, but I had to explain it in a way that you didn't even like to read.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: How can I do this?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty much what I did.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then the first one's gone bestseller over 10 times.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we lost count.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did the second one, and then again, not thinking, it's and that's another really powerful thing I learned.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: I thought you do your best work when you feel you've had nothing to lose.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for me, fear has always been that insecurity, that whole fear of um, you know, is am I gonna lose something?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: But with this, I have nothing to lose.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I and then the third one we did, which is my one called Timeless.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the average age of women in that book, I think is 53.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then the latest one, I feel like it's everything I've learned since.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I published that one myself, which I don't always recommend.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, so that's the one you're talking about.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: But that one really, to me, is the ultimate one because there's a little bit of a gap, but you'll probably like this part of the conversation because it's where it really changed my life.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I have this awesome job where I'm on a panel for two medical boards here.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: So there's ASAP and ASDC.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're plastic surgery boards.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I work and I teach plastic surgeons my techniques because what they're discovering is two things that most, yeah, most plastic surgeons are male, they don't have a beauty background, and two, they're all finding, you know, those I still hate this, you know, those magazines, and they're really degrading where they put a famous actress with no makeup on, and it's just the hot, I don't know why they need to do it.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, they do it, and but I understand where it's they're coming from.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can see the power in makeup.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I'm doing is I now teach plastic surgeons from a makeup artist's point of view, it's all about the subtleties because they're realizing that a lot of plastic surgery does not make men and women look younger, it makes them look weird, not age appropriate.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, the my point of all this is what I learned through this, they teach the Fibonacci sequence, the beauty of the science of beauty, phi, golden ratio, all that stuff.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's all the same thing, to doctors.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember having this moment going, if you just can make the face as fi as possible, the face will be the most beautiful version of itself, no matter who's looking.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: So matter your um age, race, or gender, yeah, anything that is phi is more beautiful, no matter race, age, or gender.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I started to really learn this how they teach plastic surgeons, and then I put that into makeup, and that's what this latest book's all about.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, oh my gosh, I'm like blown away right now.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is this is so amazing.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, this actually is such a beautiful like thing for anyone out there who's even thinking about you know plastics or anything, because you know, for me, I remember in med school when I first, you know, the first cadaver dissection, just realizing how many muscles are in our face, yeah, and the intricate structure, the bone structure, the money, yeah, you know, everything, everything you're saying is like just so you're right, it's in sync with science, medicine.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is yeah, that's beautiful.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, like so.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do you so how do you navigate that then?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like basic, yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love this question.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So so basically what what I'm saying, and there's some like for me, it's about looking age appropriate and and like even we as you can see in the cosmetic studio world, it's just gone to I wouldn't say an ugly place, but the thing is what we're seeing on social media is not really a great, it's just it's I think it's not healthy.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And even things like now, I I consult for some doctors, like for example, if someone wants to come in and get bigger lips because their lips look small, you've got to remember balance in the face.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can't make lips bigger if the cheekbones, because it just everything looks out of balance, so everything has to have balance.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: But basically, what it was was this.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So getting the face to look more fine.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I remember there were two walk away moments that really changed how I teach and who I how I am as an artist.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And what it was was they were saying if you make the face more fire, which you know, surgically you can do as a makeup artist, I can do some of that, but not all of that.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: But what I thought was, I thought, okay, so there's two aha moments.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: One is where an amazing plastic surgeon was on stage, Dr.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Stephen Louis, and a doctor asked him a question.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then the question was so the room was just a plastic surgeons.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: The question was, if you want to make a man, male or female, look younger, 10, 20 years younger, and you only have one tool or one weapon to use, you've only got one, what would you do?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And his answer flawed me.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: His answer was I would not change or fix a single wrinkle in the face.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would even out the skin tone.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then in that, a photo went up on the wall of a woman.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this blew my mind, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, in that, a woman's photo went on the wall.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: She was 70, she was from Queensland, Sydney, Australia, smoked her whole life, bad sun damage.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And in one photo, they photoshopped all her wrinkles out.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And she didn't look younger, she just looked odd, just looked a bit young.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the second photo, this is what blew me away.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: The second photo, he didn't touch a single wrinkle, he made her skin even.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So all the redness, and she looked 20 years younger.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that moment that I went, oh my god, as a makeup artist, I can do that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can get the skin to look either like you're talking before, like earlier about dermatology, it's about getting that skin as even because that is the most useful thing you can do.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I know even my mum or women, as they get older, they always say the same thing.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I want more color on my face.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they go for the brighter lipstick or the more blush.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: But what that does, it enhances the redness.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: So my biggest makeup tip for anti-aging is getting the skin tone even, whether you can do it with lasers or treatment, or you do it with foundation.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there was that moment, but in the second moment, I'm hearing this thing about phi, Fibonacci.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And this sequence is so powerful that companies like Aston Martin, Apple Mac use this exact measurement for all the products they make.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Aston Martin have a car called the 177 based on it.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, every flower you see in nature is is measured at Phi, or the every Leonardo da Vinci painting has measured at the pyramids.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's you.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I recommend anyone just to go stay.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: But what I thought, wonder there's a thing called eye fi.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this was the biggest moment in my life.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I wonder if I wonder if I can teach everyone to make their eyes fire.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because what they're saying is if you can make the feature more fire, it will be the most beautiful version of yourself, no matter if you're straight, babe, nationality, age, doesn't matter.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I reached out to a lot of my, not some celebrity clients, but clients that I do their makeup all the time for many different events.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, one of them, one of the big moments is Paul Abdul.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I said to her them, and Kelly Rowland was the other one, she really changed my life.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I said, send me the photo of the makeup that you I did on you that you loved the most.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And houses for fate.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: The man, my um Delano from 360, my designer, my book designer, he did a thesis in Fibonacci University.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So he know he we didn't know that it's we had this kind of interest.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so these makeup images were coming through for my clients.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: We measured the makeup, it measured phi to an absolute scrilometer.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, oh, hang on.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So then I went, I thought I'm gonna take this even more.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I went looked at looked at all the makeups that people go nuts over, right back from Marilyn Monroe to Kim Kardashian to J-Lo.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Their eye makeup measures phi.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, okay.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: So what I need to do is teach every man, woman, child when you go and watch that smoky eye tutorial or that eyeliner tutorial, you can get a best eyeliner, but does it make your eyes look more fi?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: So without reading, it's it is a little bit of a complex conversation, but the thing is you only have to learn your eye shape and in simple form, simple, the the first thing you need to do with makeup, it's basically extending your eyes a third.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: So never because a lot of people do their top eye makeup first, they do their bottom makeup and they join their bottom makeup into the top.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: I do it the other way around.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if everyone's like, oh my god, I'm really confused.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, I've got a YouTube channel that I've started, and I'm doing a lot more um tutorials to explain this.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: But even so, if you look at iconic makeup, so you'll very rarely, if pretty much never, see a makeup where it stops at the corners of the eyes, it's always extended.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's the first.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's basically what your eyes look like if you used a slightly tight high ponytail.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's that open okay, okay.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, think that more.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I I honestly, hand on heart, believed in my training that there was different aesthetics for this size shape, you do this makeup for this, and it's and it's not, and where it really came in use and where I really needed to make to teach this is I've done over a hundred, I mean, I've directed over 150 shows at Fashion Week, and we'd have these briefs where it'd be like, okay, everyone has to have eyeliner, and I'd go, Great, so those models, it's gonna look amazing on these models, it's gonna make their eyes look droopy, and these people it's gonna make the eyes look old.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I went.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I had to on every eye teach a technique that you can still have this amazing eyeliner, but sometimes you have to do it from the outer under part of the eye or on top of the lid or only on the outer third.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's basically what I want to do is teach men and women watch your YouTube videos, find the techniques that you love, but understand your eye shape.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So when you do it, you can do it in a way that suits your eyes.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I've actually watched a few of your videos.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know you upload on Instagram, and I uh you were doing one for hooded eyes, and I was so mesmerized by the way that you did it.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just, you know, I can tell that your technique is very technical.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's very technical, you know what I mean?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're really like like it's you don't use a lot, but the what you use is so precise, and I just think that's the subtleties.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the subtleties.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I'm I'm just blown away right now.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really you know funny subtleties too.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I remember this moment where I was doing the plastic surgery conference, and and the one of the guys who runs it came up to a demonstration on stage, and I've got the photos before and after.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually my a great moment.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: I went up against one of the world's greatest plastic surgeons, and they gave us this beautiful woman who was, I think, 45, 50.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's young, she looked amazing.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to do makeup versus cosmetic surgery.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I had, and we all, there was no, which I love, there's no photoshopping, no editing.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: I did her makeup all on film, took a photo afterwards, and she went and um got cosmetically, not surgery, but all the fillers and everything.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he she had a week to recover from bruising, and then we had to put the photos up between, you know, some of the world's best plastic surgeons.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I love this book because I actually won.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then what happened?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was great.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I got it all on film, which is fabulous.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: But what was amazing, I remember one of the organizers said something that really it threw me, and I had this aha moment.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: He said, But Ray, when you do your demonstrations, can you just do like your contouring four times darker and go really heavy so we can see the change?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, that's your problem right there.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: The power is in the subtleties.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want a surgeon touching my face thinking if you can't see it, obviously, you shouldn't have it done.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm at I'm at the thing, no, you should never be able to tell people your secrets, it's the subtleties.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's even with highlight.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I see this thing when, like I was saying before, when you highlight on the cheekbone, but if you've got fine lines, your skin looks shiny, but you look really wrinkly.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've made that skin look like fish scales, and now that's something that people do all, and even a simple thing when you highlight the cheek, that highlight should have a curve, it should have that beautiful C shape.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you do that line, what happens is the whole face gets dragged down, and your eyes follow curves of the face.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: So having curves and lines and all that's really beautiful, but you don't want to enhance though.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's like I always say it's like, let's say, you know, all women, I have cellulite, but it's like me getting shimmer and only putting it on the cellulite part.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just don't want to enhance those parts.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I need to teach it kind of at that level because I want someone who's done makeup for 20 years or someone who's never picked up a brush to understand.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like when I do seminars, I do a thing here with Murray Claire.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll have a I'll have a room of 800 women, and the question I always ask, who here feels confident doing their makeup?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't see you're lucky to see one hand go up, and I think, wow, this is something that women do all day, every day, but haven't really been taught.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: They they get shown.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: This see, I never follow trends.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm just not in it into it.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think find something that's beautiful, works, and just do it well.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I hate trends, I'm the same way.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hey, I mean, one of my one of my pet hates, I don't know why, but I don't like yellow eyeshadow.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I just can't, I can't do yellow eyes.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't even wear yellow eyeshadow.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Red's not great either because you look a bit like a bit ice dye.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: But uh a great example I love to use.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, makeup, it's not people use these terms that I hate, they go, it gives you confidence and it's your armor.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, we don't see a man putting a suit on and go, that's his armor.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Makeup is just it's a way you express yourself, it's just how you want to show yourself to the world.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the friends you hang with, the music you choose, that clothes you wear.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just about it's an expression of wearing no makeup was to me an expression of art.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think um so a great terminology I use for women.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: I said if you or and men, if you go, I don't know what suits me.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Angela Jolie, perfect example.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: She has pretty much two makeups that she wears all the time.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: It works, it's beautiful, you know.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: So find something that works, stick you don't have to change it constantly if you don't want to.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's very like I think that's an amazing point because you know, for me, like I can just say, like growing up, like, you know, and going back to your book, like one of the most, I think, interesting parts of makeup for me, just as like um, you know, a kid, was looking at those um like the blank faces that you can, you know, used to be able to print off.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I would look at the face charts of yeah, and the face charts, and I would look at the structure of the face and try to understand, like, well, what is my face structure?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I and everything you're saying is like it makes so much sense to me because I think people don't people want so much to be like, well, so and so looks like this, and she used these products and this is how she got there.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: But they don't they don't want to take the time to look in the mirror and really understand, well, where what does my face really look like?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and and so I think like you know, what you're describing, it's like you're doing that for these people, you know what I mean?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're able to to see them and and and actually look at the the facial and the bone structure.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's amazing.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: How can we be better about that, right?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, honestly, like for if for anyone listening, like how can we look at ourselves and figure out where, like, you know what I mean, what's the things that we should highlight and all that stuff.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the thing, I mean, I think first of all, I mean, there's again a massive whole conversation we we everyone needs to have, but obviously not today about self-image and things like that.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because the first step is looking into a mirror with no makeup on and knowing you're beautiful no matter what, and makeup is pure like earrings that you choose.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's simple things like um, for example, there's there's a there's um the face ages in certain ways, um, and also sometimes the things that you did when you were 18 can like really age you as you get older.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so but look, I hate to do this whole shameless plug, but that's why I did write a book, and that's why um it's important to know how the face ages and what works, what doesn't work.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: But there's some simple things like, for example, evening out the skin tone.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's really a powerful thing to do.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even how you match your skin tone.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say, you know, don't ever test makeup on your um jawbone, do it on your chest, your decottage area, because you want your face and body to be the same color.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, your face can be a shade light or one shade darker, but anything like that looks really obvious.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: So tricks like that are really important.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Things like arching your brow.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: So when you arch your brow too much, you can make the brow look very hooded and that brow bone area look heavy as well.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's things like straightening up your brow area.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thing I just posted one yesterday about lips, it's a really powerful one.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: To make lips look really useful, it's about it's not making the lips bigger, it's making them look more lifted in the corners.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's simple things like, yeah, look, and and the thing too, you've got to look at the face as an overall thing because what I find, I mean, I'm I'm sort of talking about women because I do do obviously a lot more women's makeup than men, but it's it's not also like if you don't like your lips, what it tends to happen, we focus so much on one thing, and it's like, well, you know, it doesn't mean that you can't wear, you know, crazy eyes or stronger eyeliner, or it's all it's not having that negative talk that we tend to do about what we don't like because makeup can really transform it, really can.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: But understanding your eye shape is probably the most important thing.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I can go up to anyone on the street and go, hey, what's your eye shape?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And no one knows.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, we don't also fit into categories.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: You you don't always have a round or a hooded, or you could have a rounded top eyelid, but a straight under eye, you could have vice versa.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And with eye makeup, it the it's pretty much knowing about so let's let's talk about eyes for a second.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: So eyes, it's knowing.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Say you want to do eyeliner, you need to know where the highest part of your eyelid is.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're just looking at your top eyelid right now, have you got a mirror near you, Etika?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I do.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do it right now.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you look into a mirror, just look at your top eyelid with your eyelashes or where your eyelashes come out of.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Where is your highest point?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is it in the middle?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is it slightly towards the nose, or is it slightly on the outer part of the eyes?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Slightly on the outer part for me.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: So your eyeliner starts from that point outwards.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, yeah, you don't with where eyeliners are a really powerful thing, but it can really make your eyes look smaller.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and where you, if you if you move eyeliner too close towards your nose, you can actually make your eyes look too close together.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: So a little simple trick.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever you're doing eyeliner, know where that highest part of your eye is, and that is where your eyeliner should end, because you want to give that eye a really um, yeah, amazing width.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Things like um shimmer, don't put shimmer anywhere on the skin where you've got lots of fine lines or scarring.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can still have a hydrated looking skin by using really moisturizing foundations, but don't use any shimmer or glittery.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And also how you test makeup.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say too, if you struggle with eye makeup, you find it really hard to blend.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Cream eyeshadows will change your life.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you don't get the annoying fallout, you get this beautiful, like Dennis American's has great ones.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Alice Ferris, Alice, sorry, Alice Fast has amazing ones.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Investing in really good brushes, brushes that fit your face exactly.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I'm really I'm not here to do a brush um plug, I promise.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: But having brushes please do because your brushes are literally the best in the world.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone listening, I'll do the plug for you.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: What I love, they are made by the last living master of craft in Japan, left alive in the world.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a normal brush takes 10 to 20 steps maximum to make mine start, I think 61 or 62 steps.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: But what the idea with brushes is they've got to fit your face.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we use calligraphy technology, and what that does, and what a normal brush would take, 10 to 20 strokes to blend something.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Mine and the fiber takes two to three strokes.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at the way calligraphy artists work, they have to put black paint on a brush, hit a white canvas, and what they do with pressure, they can make that stroke thicker or thinner, but there's no edges to blend, and that's where calligraphy-pointed brushes will change your life.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's about doing less strokes, um, less strokes with a brush that you don't get that skin movement because blending is really, really hard.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, simple things like getting a foundation that matches your skin, but also knowing to change it during summer and winter, getting your skin as good as possible.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Don't try and think, oh, I'll just use makeup to cover it.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think try and find what these issues are.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much out there with gut health and skin health.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So really work on that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, things like contouring, contouring can be the worst thing you can do if you've got a long face or if you're aging and you've got that hollow cheekness around your mouth area, contouring will bring um attention to it.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all about just you know, like what I would suggest here's a couple of great tips.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Find, I always say for makeup, find a woman in your age group or male, if you're watching, um, who has the same eye colour, skin tone, and similar hair colour to yours.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And look at what looks they wear on the red carpet.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's always timeless, it's feminine, it's not, you know, victim of trends and things like that, and follow their lead.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like my mum has similar colourings to Helen Marin, and my mum loves these bright, crazy colours, which she can do.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I say to her mum, but you know, sometimes if you just want to look timeless and elegant, what does she wear green sparkly glitter with rainbow eyeshadow?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, she doesn't.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: She can, of course, she can, but it's a nice guy, just knowing your colours and don't worry too much about trends and keep it simple.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, having for me, makeup is having beautiful looking skin, and we can fade that with foundations, really having a beautiful brow, if you can define your brow, mascara, and even sometimes no eyeshadow on the eyes, just a little sort of like a even if you do it with eyeshadow, like a little flick on the outer corners of the eye, like you can smudge it if you're not if you're a little bit wrinkly around the outer corners of the eye.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And now cheek colors really important.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever you put blush on, I want you to imagine a line from the corner of your mouth to the top of your ear.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine that line.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want your blush to only go above that line.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for that is if you do really big blush, big cheeks on your face, you'll actually make the face look larger.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people think, oh, big cheeks makes it look more youthful.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: It can actually add, you know, three to five kilos to the face.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Be very careful how big you put blush on.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the most important thing is where your cheeks, yeah, where you're I mean, if look, these these rules do not apply.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you you love the way you look, you don't look young, you don't look healthy.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can do whatever you want.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to look more lifted or more youthful, the minute your blush goes below that line, you drag the whole face down.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because blush is meant to lift.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have this lifted eye, um, try and straighten your eyebrows.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: But if you put your blush on a even if your cheeks aren't there, if you put your blush above that line, the whole face is lifted.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really important.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And here's a really great trick because I think the most confusing part with eye makeup is what we do on the outer corners.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do we wing it out?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do we curve it?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where does it go?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I always use this ponytail analogy.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you were going to put your hair in a tight ponytail to give your face a bit of a lift, would you do your ponytail really, really high on top of your head?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you take your ponytails more towards the back of your head?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So what where do you do, if you want to really tight ponytail, where do you put your ponytail?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: I pretty I put it pretty high up because like I like the way it looks better.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: So what that says to me, if I'm doing your eye makeup, that outer corner of the eye, I would lift up in the same kind of same direction your ponytail is slightly more of that cat eye effect.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you said to me, yeah, because that's how you like your eyes.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And can I tell you the best trick in the whole world?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do your under-eye makeup first, it will change your life because the reason you like your eyes in the ponytail, watch what happens.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Two things happen your eyebrows straighten, so the curve, you actually pull the curve out of your brow.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: A straighter brow will give you more lift.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know it sounds crazy, but it's true.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when you also do the high ponytail, the under eye shape is more pulled, it's more straight.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so to lift an eye, you the power comes from what you do under the eye, not what you do on top.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if you just do your under-eye makeup on the outer third, and then now you know if I'm doing your makeup, just not even seeing you, but hearing what you're saying, I'll put a bit of eyeshadow in the outer corner of my under eye, but I would flick it up because you like the high ponytail.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you do your top eye makeup, guess what?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: And actually extend it a third, so tell your under-eye makeup and just do a light little extension.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Then when you do your top eye makeup, you join your top eye shadow into your bottom eye, not the other way around.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: When you do your under-eye makeup, it will change your life.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: I okay, I have a question then, because I've never understood how to do under-eye makeup.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: So do you ever do under-eye makeup generally?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, I only do like I do like uh like I'll take my mascara and once I've done my you know my top lashes, I'll you know, add a little bit of mascara on my bottom lashes.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I've always wanted to, and I and I don't know what how to approach that.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so really good thing.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: If I hear that, so sometimes if your under-eye, if you've got quite rounded eyes, or let's say the bottom under eye is more of a droopy shape, this is where I don't put anything under the eye, no mascara, no nothing, because it actually gives you an instant lift.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to under-eyes, either no makeup at all, or if you do it just on the outer third.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a trick too.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever you want to lift an eye or change the shape of the eye, only matte has to be matte.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Neutral tone colours will do it.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this is my analogy.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got, say, a small wrinkly eye, and then I put glittery green eyeshadow on that eye, what I now have is a small green glittery eye.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't changed a thing.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to change the eye, you've got to use matte colours back to that whole black and white tone shade thing, and it has to be a skin tone.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the best color choice to do this in a natural way is get a color that would match the colour you would use to contour your cheeks.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know how that's yeah.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if you get a color that's matte color like that, and get a tiny brush, I've got a square shape one, a lash line smudge, which is quite square.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: You get really close to the lash line and you just smudge it into that outer third, and then you pull it up really, really slightly.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: The great thing is I have a video on this, and I'm gonna send you a link so you can share it.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you just extend it that really, really, yeah.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do your eye makeup first, and then you're gonna join the top into the bottom.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just a really simple, it's gonna be a small brush, really close to the lash line with a matte colour.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Don't think about colour.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're someone who loves colour, there's places to put colour, but colour is an accessory.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Colour won't change the shape that much, it just adds, you know, color.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: But what you want to do is contour and shape.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's even with hooded eyelids.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever you want to socket or carve out an eye, I do everything with matte colors first, carve my shape, and then I add colours second.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Second is my um secondary, is the way that I do that.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: So things like so great tips to take away foundation, match your skin tone.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you wear fake tan, you've got to darken that's that um tone.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Less is best.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not into foundations that claim they last three weeks because they might last, but they look really concreted.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm all about making the skin look fresh and more glowy and dewy.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you don't have to do that.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: What is your what is your favorite foundation?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask you that?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, for me, I flip through, but it's true that for me, because I'm I'm so white and I burn.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm really I burned in three seconds and I live in Australia near a beach.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: What a nightmare.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I do love the IT Cosmetics, the CC cream for me because it is a sunscreen.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't break out from it.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I normally have to use a BB or a CC cream because I break out.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: I do love the Clinique ones as well.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: In the even better skin, in my kit, I use it's a couple that I love.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite, one of my favorites has just been discontinued.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Japanese one called Kogendo.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not a big lover of mattifying foundations because as an artist, I don't like to put makeup in on well, if I'm doing it myself, it's different.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: But when I'm doing someone a client, I want to be able to freshen up the makeup at all times.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: So in my kit, I have I like I use a NARS tinted moisturizer.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Ellis Fass is really, oh, it's so if you want that creamy kind of high coverage, it's beautiful.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I say if you want this a really good over-the-counter cheaper one that I think is a beautiful effect, L'Oreal have one called um, is it called Lumi L-U-M-I?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: It feels so similar and it looks very similar to Giorgio Armani.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm actually about to post filming it today, um, a new update of my kit.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I I show it, I'm not sponsored by anyone.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: I never do, I never have never done a paid sponsor.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: I always talk from the heart.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got um on my highlights page on Instagram, I've got in my kits.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can see that was a few months ago, so I'm about to update it.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, look, who else has got some Laura Mercy have great?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many great ones out there, but I always feel get a really good medium coverage foundation and then areas that you want to cover more.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Concealer, I do love the IT um bye-bye under eye, it's amazing.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I do love the NAS pots as well.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: What do you use, Ekka?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, but you know, I don't I don't think I have a favorite.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: My I use so many different products.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, for me, I've been using for concealer, like I'll use whatever, you know, just doesn't make my under eyes look more wrinkly.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I can never find the perfect concealer.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I just, you know, I don't wear a lot of makeup, but when I do, it's just like I I try to stay away from things because I I'm not gonna lie to you, I don't have a lot of skills.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, that you don't but you don't need you, honestly, don't need it.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: You get you get what I say, you get a really good basic range.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: What helps is good brushes because one thing I noticed that artists have very different, like I I've got friends that try and do their makeup with a cotton button, I'm a cotton q-tip, and I can't do it with the q-tip, and I'm an artist, so how the hell do you do it?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that would really help, but also too, um, with under-eyes, really good thing that you mentioned there because again, can see what that area under your eyes is a mobile area, it's gonna move.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, if you go for those staying long-lasting concealers, all you get is wrinkly under eyes because you can't stop that area from moving.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: What you're better off doing is getting a really hydrated, beautiful um coverage concealer.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice and creamy.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it definitely wrinkles, but you can easily smooth it back out with your finger, a beauty blender.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, where I believe the power of makeup is unfortunately, it's not in things that last all day because they do enhance lines.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's about using products that have got really good pigment levels, but using less of it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd rather you go get a really strong concealer, but use half the amount.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that will give you a and yes, it will crease absolutely, but it's something that we, I think makeup artists, we've kind of killed our, we we've destroyed um part of our business because we talk about let's have have something that lasts all day.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: But any products that do that, just when they do get into lines, they really get in there and it's really hard.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you're better off getting like even for me, I really use powder.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: I only use like uh a translucent powder if I want the skin to look more matte, but yeah, that was actually one of my biggest questions for you is for you to please speak on powder and like how we should use that because people I feel like don't understand at all.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, people when you use it to set something, I I I don't do it.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I I speak to all my makeup artist friends, and unless we want the skin to look less shiny or and look, sometimes too, you've got to think.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're if you don't want a lot, if you don't want your makeup to look too shiny, just be careful of what you're putting on underneath.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're starting that whole serum oil 17 skincare products, then you're putting on like a hydrating um foundation, you are gonna look so shiny, then you're gonna need to use powder to take that away.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then what happens with powder, powder's like another level of foundation.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does look beautiful, it does stop shine, but when it does get into wrinkles, it's really hard to use.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I always say, if you so do your makeup how you how you normally do it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Don't I don't like to use powder straight away.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: I always put foundation on.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: I that's why I've actually made in my range, it's the only cosmetic product I have.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the Invisible Mattifier.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I sent you an eye.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that product.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I love it.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's I use it every day.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so what it is, it's like a clear, it's it's medical grade silicon, so it's breathable silicon, it takes away the shine.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've got um there's uh ski resorts in Japan where they actually you recommend to use it on the because it actually acts a bit like a windburn.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: That silicon acts like a windburn, um, windburn protection, but it will take away shine, but it will not show up on any HD camera.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the first girls I ever, when I was playing with it, was that Sudanese Supermole, she's Australian, named a dut, and she went nuts, and she was the one that really pushed me to do it.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got the paler skin or you're really dark, you can put this on, it takes away all the shine.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing on men, especially guys who are bald because under lights, that head top of their head gets so shiny.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: It will take away the shine three times to four times longer than powder, but it's invisible.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: But with powder in general, this is my thing.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you want the skin to look velvety or to look powdered, sure, go ahead and use it.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: But powder will stick to a sticky surface, so just be careful that you're not putting too many sticky foundations, sticky moisturizers on because your skin is like a sponge, it will just suck it up.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Keep away from just go for more lightweight concealers or foundations or skincare.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you do use powder on your face for that effect, remember that if you do, if you have got a lot of fine lines and you love a lot of expression, it is going to get into those lines and it's pretty much impossible to get out unless you remove your whole foundation.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: So here's another trick.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: With powder, a place I definitely love to use it is if I'm using a powdered eyeshadow.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you do your liquid foundation, putting powdered eyeshadow onto an eyelid that's not pre-powdered, eyeshadow would have stick like sticky tape.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: So powdering eyelids first is the greatest trick and the biggest help you can get when you've got to apply powdered eyeshadows to your eyes.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: It that's why I do use it all the time.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love it for that.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing yeah, grow oh yeah, you do it on the back of your hand.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: So on the back of your hand, just put your normal foundation and then on and do it on both hands.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: And on one hand, pick up your eyeshadow with a brush and try and blend.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what will happen, it's like doing makeup on sticky tape.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: On the other hand, put your loose powder on top, then look how beautiful eyeshadow blends.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I am gonna throw another obstacle on that one.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: Be careful of some of the HD powders because HD powders can repel eyeshadow, meaning that eyeshadow won't stick to anything.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're using a H, yeah, if you're using a HD powder and then you during a day want to add more blush or more eyeshadow, it's literally impossible because the the powder repels, it's crazy.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I've got this.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I'm I'm trying to give you 20 years of training in five minutes, but I'm oh my gosh, yes.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting here like listening.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was just gonna say that's why, and I know it's a shameless plug, but that's why I did write a book because there's so much in this, but all this stuff I think will help you save money because when you go buy makeup, I teach you a trick on how to test eyeshadows and and all the little tricks that you need to learn.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: But going back to the paddock, is someone that goes, Look, I don't I don't want the shine.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: My invisible mattifier is the best powder that you can use.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um but if you like that powdered velvety effect, all I say is just what I'd say during the day, before you powder, get some blotting papers, the ones that have no powder in them, just clear blotting papers, and blot off the shine first.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: So then when you powder, the skin won't suck up.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: The problem that we have is we get oily in our T zones, and then we pick up powder.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens, especially the nose area that's not very good at holding a lot of product anyway, things that are really cakey really quickly.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: What happens when you powder with a really oily skin?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: The oil really sucks up the powder.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: So now you have five times all the it just creates a lot of mess.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the trick is use it if you have to, but before you ever use it, block the shine first.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really great trick.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I used to use those body papers and I just haven't been using them for years now, but that is so good to know.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've been using your um the mattifier though, it works so beautifully because I incredibly even if I'm not wearing makeup, like I use it and it's just like perfect, like it's perfection.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I love it.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I love too.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like when a selfie world and you know, it's all the Zoom calls and things like that.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you might not.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I that's where I think it's amazing.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I'm doing Zoom calls, I don't like to wear, um, I just don't wear makeup.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is, a lot of I noticed one thing in my career, a lot of the great makeup artists when I was assisting, I thought they don't wear makeup.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then one of them said to me, Yeah, because I don't want to show clients what I'm capable of.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh, that's a really good point.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: And also makes you neutral too.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: It makes you neutral because we are so judgmental.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you if you go to a makeup artist and you like a natural look, and I've got someone who's got more makeup on than a circus or a performer, people do freak out because we are very judgmental.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's and it's great for men because I don't like seeing makeup on men at all.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, sure, wear it.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to have that, I don't want to look like I'm wearing makeup, yeah.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of the one of the first guys that actually used my powder was Rev Run from Run DMC.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing a wedding in the Bahamas, Shanina Scheik's wedding.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, they're not together anymore, but um, Rev Run and Lenny Kravitz, that was just the most incredible time.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: But Rev Run, who's who's bald on the top, it was just this amazing thing.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: I powdered him down, and then all his friends like, oh my god, what is that?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really popular with men because it's because even if you're a man and you are wearing colored powder on a red carpet, you can get into trouble because if they sweat, powder can go dark and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why Invisible Matterfies really good.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we did stuff in America too.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's that?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I have this silly time lay on my phone.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we do we do um self on the website, but we do have it at Beautylish in America as well.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: So if you just want to look at reviews and see how it works, please have a jump online.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can see how it works.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, please.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone listening, you don't need to look at renewal reviews.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just tell you, this is perfect.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's the most beautiful product.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, honestly, Ray, like I haven't ever used brushes till I use yours because before I used your brushes, um, anything I had tried, I just couldn't get it to like, I don't know, like I'm I'm very finicky, you know, when I do my makeup.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just want like certain things in certain places.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like, you know, when I was using like all over brushes or whatever, I just couldn't get that look.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I just love how much, like, for example, like I don't contour.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to contour.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have tried it, it just looks awful on me, you know.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I use your brush, and one of one of the brushes you have is such a nice, it holds so nicely that I've been playing with bronzer and like trying to use it.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the first time in my life I'm telling you that I've learned how to supply contour.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, like that's how good, that's how good it is.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like your products.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: And what's so awesome?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: What's so awesome too?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because the fiber, it's a it's a patent fiber where in the old, like before this, we had to have you know real hair for certain powders and then synthetics for cream makeup.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: With this fiber, it crosses over both.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: But what you'll find that's really amazing because of the fiber, the way the brush is used, most eyeshadow, any brush, pretty much, you get the flicking of those edge bristles.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: So when you you probably can relate when you're doing your eye makeup, you're doing your eyes, but you've got eyeshadow flicking up into your eyebrows, and and even when you're trying to do blush or do an area, those outer bristles just flick product.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing about this micro-bristle fiber, it holds it's like a sponge, it holds all that product on one.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what's also really powerful that no one has really taught, or maybe I haven't seen anyone teach it, but something that's really important is watch how you put makeup onto a brush.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, the reason calligraphy brushes are so incredible, um, or related back to makeup.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got any pointed eye brushes, when you put eyeshadow on it, you only or blush, or if you're putting a blush on one of my pointed kabukies, you only put the product on a very tip with eye with anything.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for that is you want to keep the bristles around the brush, the shorter ones, clean of product.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the airbrushing trick.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when you say, for example, you're doing a black smoky eye, if you put that pointed brush, just put the black just on the tip.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: When you're doing your gentle strokes on your eyelid, and you go, Oh, I like that, but I want to blend it a bit more, you add pressure with the brush, and then the clean bristles around the edges give you that perfect blended edge.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's why that calligraphy point, that's what that's where the magic is.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's awesome.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: That is, I mean, I didn't know that.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that like you're using the calligraphy technique, let me just tell you how like blown away I am at that, because it is like, I think when I think of like you know, eyeliner for me, like it's part of my culture.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I grew up watching everyone, you know what I mean?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: In India, everyone wears scodgels, so like it was something that was very part of my heritage, and you know, one of the things is like, you know, when people do it, they like it just I don't know, it's like they don't understand.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that you can't have like a like a square point at the end.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes any sense.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was always my biggest thing when I used to watch like makeup videos by like you know, YouTubers and stuff.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, why aren't you guys like, you know, you just everything you said basically, you know what I mean?
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they were missing that whole concept.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you have um really kind of honed in on that that craft, the calligraphy aspect, because that's really, really interesting, you know.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Also, too, one thing I didn't know either is the weight of the brush.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I was in Japan, they'll explain that like because a calligraphy artist picks up black paint and has to touch a white canvas, the artist needs to know at what point that brush is hitting a white wall.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a thing, it's apparently the way they make violins, the weight of a brush is so important because you have to, as an artist, and this is actually this is a true true fact that when I do makeup, I can close my eyes and I know when the brushes hit the face because the the weight is so important.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another feature we've put in into them as well.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing I was gonna say was um the other thing with sorry, um, with eyeliner brushes, that's also why I have three different sizes.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: Even with even with cheeks, I say brushes are like shoes, they have to have an exact fix.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're example, watching this great YouTuber using a brush, but they've got a really big eye shape, and you pick up that same brush and do it on your smaller eye shape, you're never going to get the same effect.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and with eyeliners, there's normally there's what I call the perfect liner size, which is that back to that Fibonacci Fi line, that line that suits no matter what.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my precise liner brush.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: But then I've done a bigger one, which can give you a with again with pressure, it can give you the finest split, but add pressure, you can get that beautiful, like thicker liner.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there's um the square once you get in between your lashes.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it goes back to that thing.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: What size liner do I want?
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then what size brush do I need?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of eyeliners you get given one size, but it's it's such a hard thing to do anyway.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's why a lot of the brushes I have.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's the brush, but there's different sizes.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got a smaller eye, use the same brush but the smaller version because that, you know, you see, I used to do it.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: You see, you know, you used to get in these one brush with purchase, and you'd have to squeeze the brush into a certain shape to get it to do what it needs to do, and it's hard enough as it is.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all about finding the one that fits your eye size and doing it with less strokes.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: See, because you don't want to spend hours and hours.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing too, you've that what I always say it's do put less product on and do not pick up, especially doing eyes.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: When I teach eye makeup, you're not allowed to put your brush back into the eyeshadow till what you've done is beautifully blended.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's the blending that takes it out.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: And another great tip, I don't care what brush anyone uses, if you've got a favorite brush, buy two and keep one with no makeup on it.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because having a brush with nothing on it that's just is amazing if you're in a hurry just for quick blending and cleaning up.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you have minimal brushes, you don't always have time to change, like sterilize, clean your yeah, have two and have one with no product on it.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great trick.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think that you know what?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: I like we need to turn this into like a series.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: I need to like steal you away, yeah, and uh just talk to you about makeup for like hours because honestly, you I I think everyone needs to learn all of this, and you know, I Ray, I want to thank you so much.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: This has been the best interview.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I have learned so much from you in an hour.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh, one thing I had to tell you quickly too.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: Only because you've got the book, and just before the start, I want to share one thing in the eye colour chapters, they're real eyeballs, by the way, and all those colours are real eyeshadows.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: I um joined forces with an eye doctor, and we talked about eye colour charts that exist out there, and most of them don't actually have eye colours that are really common.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that gray eyes was really common.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you that's something I want to tell you.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, when you're in the eye colour chapter part, that's been done with a Pantone expert who she worked in colour theory for L'Oreal for like 15 years.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they're real eyeballs, and those eyeshadows are real eyeshadows.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the colour matching is done from a science science perspective as well.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, oh my gosh.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: I just I'm really looking forward to it.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: I need to look that up.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like right now.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like grabbing the colour eyes do you have?
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have brown eyes, dark brown eyes.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: So again, you got eye color charts.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: I always have one brown.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've got three brown colors in there because it's different cool to warm color brown eyes in there.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: So all those eyeshadows, that part took me six six months.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that would be a wake's job.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, that one that that chapter took me six months.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, obviously, you know, you've put so much love and passion into everything you've done, you know, and your book definitely shows it.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone listening, I highly, highly urge you go check out all of Ray's products.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, the brushes are iconic.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: Her, you know, her masterclass book is just beautiful.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful read, and it's fun to look at too.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, Ray, thank you so much, and I can't wait to have you back.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be so great.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait either, and thank you so much for today.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed talking to you.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: Same here.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 1:03:39
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• 1:03:44
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• 1:04:01
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• 1:04:18
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• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast, and it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 1:04:32
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• 1:04:38
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• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.