Latest / Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar / 2/16/26: AOC Flops In Munich, Jeffries Brain Melts On AIPAC, AI Used For War, Obama Says Aliens Exist

Transcript

2/16/26: AOC Flops In Munich, Jeffries Brain Melts On AIPAC, AI Used For War, Obama Says Aliens Exist · Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
• 0:01
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• 0:33
  Speaker 2: So, in addition to Marco Rubio, there were some noteworthy
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: comments in Munich from twenty twenty eight Democratic contenders.
• 0:41
  Speaker 4: The one who got the most.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Attention probably was Alexander Accassio Cortez. Let's go ahead and
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: take a listen to a bit of what she.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: Had to say.
• 0:47
  Speaker 5: First and foremost, I think we need to revisit our
• 0:49
  Speaker 5: commitments to international aid, not just USAID, but the dozens
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: of global compacts that this Secretary of State and President
• 1:01
  Speaker 5: Trump have withdrawn from. They are looking to withdraw the
• 1:05
  Speaker 5: United States from the entire world, so that we can
• 1:09
  Speaker 5: turn into an age of authoritarianisms, of authoritarians that can
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: carve out the world where Donald Trump can command the
• 1:18
  Speaker 5: Western hemisphere and Latin America as his personal sandbox, where
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: Putin can saber rattle around Europe and try to bully
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: around our own allies there, and for essentially authoritarians to
• 1:35
  Speaker 5: have their own geographic domains. And it actually is the
• 1:39
  Speaker 5: trans Pacific Partnership. It is our global alliances that can
• 1:45
  Speaker 5: be a hard stop against authoritarian consolidation of power, particularly
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: in the installation of regional puppet governments in a so
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: called rules based order, the rules for whom, because for
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: all too long the rules only applied to the United States, Europe,
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: its allies, and we would carve out exceptions for the
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: global South. And I think that when you have a
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: rules based order where you carve out exceptions to our values,
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: exceptions to our rules, eventually the exceptions become the rules.
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: And I think that to your original point, over the
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: last five years, we've seen such a breaking and such
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: a fraying of these alleged Western values that people wonder
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: if it ever existed in the first place.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: So I don't know, if.
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: It's necessarily that we were in a post if we
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: are in a post rules based order, I think it's
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: possible that we were in a pre rules based order,
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: and we have an opportunity to explore what a world
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: would look like if we upheld democracy, human rights, trade
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: that actually centers working class people instead of accruing overwhelmingly
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: the benefits of trade to the wealthiest. But if we
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: reoriented a new era that could actually help people and
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: show how foreign policy and healthy foreign policy can show
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: up and help them in their lives.
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: So there's a lot to unpack there.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, on the content, you know,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: what she lays out there is basically what she says
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: trans specific partnership, when of course the old trade deals
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: she clarified on Twitter she meant to say transatlantic alliances.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: But what she's describing there is effectively like a neoconomy
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: of like, we need to spread democracy around the world,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: and we're going to use our strength and our partnerships
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: in this alliance to make sure that you know, we're
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: standing up to authoritarians all over the world. And so,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't agree with that foreign policy direction.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I'm largely ideologically aligned with AOC on many domestic policy issues.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But this is straight out of like standard Democratic Party
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: establishment blob playbook. So there's that, there's the substance of
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: it that I object to. And then I watched I
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: watched her entire commentary here. I watched all the you know,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: the panels she did, et cetera. And I will just say,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: on a presentation from a presentation perspective, she's so clearly
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: very uncomfortable, you know what happened here. Her staff is like,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: if you want to be in position to run for president,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: you need to do this. You need to build out
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: like your foreign policy chops. So we're going to send
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: you to this conference. And it did not go well.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: It has the feel to me of someone who you know,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: doesn't hasn't fully fleshed out their own worldview. So they've
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: received briefings, they've got, you know, a binder of prep materials,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: and they're trying to memorize the notes of what that said,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: versus being nimble enough in their ideology to respond to
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: the questions that are being asked. And that's how you
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: make a slip up, Like I don't want to read
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: too much into it. That's how you make up a
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: slip up, make a slip up like saying transpecific partnership
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: rather than transatlantic alliance, because rather than articulating your worldview,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: you're trying to remember what you memorized.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: So she was very shaky.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: She was totally out of her element and very uncomfortable
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: up there the whole time.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I'll give you the TPP line wouldn't matter if
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: it wasn't clearly indicative of a bigger problem. So let
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: me read this exchange on Taiwan. Question about the United
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: stations ten troops to defend Taiwan. AOC roughly stalled for
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: twenty seconds before delivering this response. I think that this
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: is such a you know, I think that this is
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: a this is of course, a very long standing policy
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: policy of the United States. What are we doing here?
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: It's like I don't want to say yes, I don't
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: want to say no. Now listen, Donald Trump also got
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: elected by being a bumbling moron. All right, so like
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: on foreign policy, so let's say where the bar is? Yeah,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: this was my greatest fear about Trump is that he
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: would make popular again the diminishing look there was I
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: think a real reckoning after Biden and a lot of
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: the support for Ukraine where people saw that the wool
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: had been pulled from in front of their eyes. Because
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: at first everyone's like, oh, I'll pay more gas to
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: free Ukraine. After two years you're like, well, we're one
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: hundred billion into this thing, My gas prices are high.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: The Eastern Dune, Boss, isn't all that important to me?
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Should we really be the world's policeman? Well, what are
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: the circumstances which led to the invasion of Ukraine? Do
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: we really have an interest in spreading democracy around the world?
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: What's our track record on spreading democracy around the world.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Trump being so ham handed, in my opinion, has actually
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: made this type of politics more popular than ever before,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: purely by being oppositional. But what true leftists have always
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: understood is that there is an actual critique of NATO
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: and all of this, which in some cases is aligned
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: with Trump. Now, that doesn't mean you buy into it wholesale.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: You have much more of an internationalist humanitarian vision. See
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: many of our debates on Gaza now, for example, Yeah,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: where can be differences, But that doesn't mean that the
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: critique specifically around restraint and the acknowledgment of US power
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: being over were extended. Bad for them, bad for us,
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: bad for everybody involved. She has clearly just not thought
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: about it very much. And this is the biggest danger
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: for foreign policy. And I've seen this time and time again.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: You know George W. Bush, for example, he was a
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: lot like this, And I mean this sounds crazy to say.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: He was the Texas governor, which is a fake job.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: And I'm telling you that as someone who was born
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: from Texas. The Texas governor literally doesn't do.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Any think he did nothing.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: His entire foreign policy worldview was colored in by his father.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: He ran on being a restrainer. Actually in the year
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: two thousand, you can go and read We're not going
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: to be the world's policeman, et cetera. Nine to eleven happens.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: What happened.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: The entire apparatus which was in his chain are the
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: people who took over, and he became convinced to be
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: a neo kon. This is the problem for AOC. She
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: just clearly this is your brain on New York Times
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: Like that's how I would describe it. She has not
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: thought very deeply around the foreign policy question. Yeah, let's
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: compare her to a Rocana. I mean good lord, it's
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: a pole or opposite. I mean, I really can He
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: probably is the only one who has a defined vision
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: which was updated also I think from Gaza. He said, okay,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: very clearly, we had to see this. He you know,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: he's pro Ukraine, which I have my own issues with.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: But he's somebody who has thought about these questions, has
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: thought independently, has read a lot. I don't think he
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: would confuse TPP. I think on the Taiwan question he
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: would probably be able to give a decent enough answer
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: where it's like, well, we're going to make sure that
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: that try it doesn't happen. We have to balance great power,
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: competition and all that.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: With China.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: It's not just about command to the facts, it's about
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: what's your actual worldview. To me, this seems very colored
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: in by the Democratic Party establishment, and this is a
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: big danger for everybody because if anything is the truth,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: what we have learned over the years is that when
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: you vote for president in our current imperial system, you
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: were going to get maybe two percent domestically of what
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: you want, but one hundred percent is in the control
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: of the president. Foreign policy. It's probably the most important
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: question that we have to answer and look, I mean,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: it's been a miserable failure here under Donald Trump. Even
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: though I thought there were a lot of promising signs,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: people who had spoke very much more articulately than aoc
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: let's say, at Munich, you know, ended up not having
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: all that much influencer being co opted. But so I'm
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: not saying that even just speaking coherently will lead to
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: necessarily good things. But we should really think deeply about
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: this question if we're going to when we elect.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: A new president.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I absolutely agree, and I kind of reject I mean,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, I don't know how much
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: it matters electorally, but I kind of reject this view
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: that Americans don't really vote on foreign policy.
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's true.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, we saw numerous elections that turned on the
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: question of where were you on the Iraq War. Trump,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I think benefited very much from at least positioning himself
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: as an Iraq war critic. Whether he was one from
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: the jump or not is another matter. And you know,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: and in the previous election, the choice between Trump and
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris. We in our own focus group talk to
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: people who I was personally as someone who thought that
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Godza mattered a lot. I was personally surprised by how
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: many people cited war and Gaza specifically as a reason
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: why they voted for Trump or didn't vote at all.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: And you know, you can say they were foolish. I
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: you know, I certainly think there were plenty of reasons
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: to believe that it would not go well with him
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: as president, but they were looking at what was being
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: done under a Biden Harris administration.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: We're like, we do not support this.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: So it is also an area where look, we've never
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: had a woman president. We've certainly we've never had a
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Latino president. You have to ask people to imagine you
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: in that role, and part of that is being able
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: to handle yourself in these settings. Come across as very
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: confident in your assertions. If she was on this panel
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: with who is this guy? He's like the Ambassador Jade,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's not an impressive person, but he's like
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: very confident. You know, he's up there saying his thing
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: taut and Trump's quote unquote accomplishments blah blah blah. And
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: to see her diminish next to that guy, I don't know,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: it was very disappointing me It also reminded me of
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: when she first got elected. She got asked a question
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: about Israel Polaitans, remember, and the answer was kind of
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: a mess, and she clearly knew, Okay, there's some things
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to say, but I don't know what
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: those things are. And it was very forgivable at the
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: moment because here she's been an order organizer and a
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: bartender and she's, you know, runs for Congress, and this
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: isn't something that she's really steeped in. So I think, Okay,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I get it. You are coming in there as a
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: representative of the people. This isn't an area that you've
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: studied and explored, and you now have the opportunity as
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: a member of Congress. But not only with her presentation,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: but also with the way she's continued to be really
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: twisted into knots over what she wants to say and
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: how she wants to vote on Israel and Palestine. It's
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: emblematic of the fact that some of that work has
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: been done to really come to a fully fleshed out
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: foreign policy of worldview, but there's still a lot of
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: work to be done, and that to me really came
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: across in this present, it was.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Seven years ago. You can forgive. This is your job.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: You have nothing else to do. This is literally your job.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: You want to run for president, and this is what
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: you're doing. Let me know, return to the Trump thing.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: So I was just thinking about it because I was like, oh,
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: he was bumbling, all true. Guess what though, deep inside
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: of that was the same theory. America is getting ripped
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: off and the previously each sucks. So no matter what
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: the second grade reading level of all that was, the
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: message was coherent.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Well, and message on this was not coherent.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: The man is not lacking in confidence.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, for better or worse, someone who gets
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: up there and is bumbling and saying terrible things, but
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: they say it with like their full chest and totally confident,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: and you know, with the whole ego behind them. It's
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: appealing to people because if you have that, you know,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: that quiver in your voice like I'm not really sure
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying, It signals weakness. I mean, that's just
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: the way that people read it. So even though what
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: he said, if you read it out in a transcript,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: may have been bumbling, second grade reading level blah blah blah. Yeah,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: the communication skills are effective, and he is nothing if
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: not confident. So you know, I think, look, it's something
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: she's going to have to really it's it's something she's
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: going to have to really work on, and we'll see
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: where it goes.
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, all that being said, take a look at
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: this D two.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Her polling is extraordinarily high among young Democrats. I mean
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: they freaking love AOC eighty one percent net approval rating
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: favorability rating among young Democrats.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: There is no one who comes close to that.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: The second position here is Pete Boodages down at plus
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: forty five percent. Then you've got Gavin plus forty two percent,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Kamala thirty eight, Gretchen Whitmer, who we're about to talk about.
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: Thirty four.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: So she is she is the Democratic Party star for
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: young Democrats. So she has a lot that she can work.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: She's certainly got a fundraising base on domestic issues. She's
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: you know, very confident, and I think in step with
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: where the base of the party is very much. But
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: this definitely exposed an area of significant, significant weakness for
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: and you can just imagine her up on a debate
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: stage with.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Another one who may be wrong but confident.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Gavin newsome, you know, is certainly going to be you
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: could you could see it going poorly for her in
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: that sort of setting, under that sort of scrutiny and
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: with that level of pressure.
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I look the polling. It is interesting.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: I'll be honest, I don't really understand it because to me,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: she has not been the leader in this. I mean,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: do you tell me I'm not a leftist. I'm not
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: as embroiled in left politics outside of Zoran, which wasn't
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: she a little bit late to there were a lot
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: of people who were much earlier. Like outside of that,
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen her been a national leader in any
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: of this. Rokana is everything AOC pretends, like in my opinion,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: like he let on the Epstein question, he let on Gaza,
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: like she was not a leader on Gaza. She gives
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: some weird ass answer about defensive weapons even on ice,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: like yeah, you know, you could say she was an
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: ice anti ice, abolish ice person in twenty eighteen, not today.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, what, Chris van Holland's more of a warrior
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: than her, Like I'm being just being real, Like if
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: you look at issue by issue by issue, is it
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: all vibe based, because if it is, you need to
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: update your priors, like if you just and again I'm
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: looking this as an analyst. This does not seem like
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: the person who has been a leader on any of
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: the consistent issues.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: If I'm a Democrat.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: And if I'm a base, I think the I think
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: the reason that her that she is so well thought of,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: especially among young Democrats, is because the Bernie wing of
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: the party is ascendant, right, and she is the person
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: who is most associated. She is like the person who
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: is not Bernie, who is most associated with those politics.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: And you know, she did the Fighting Oligarchy tour at
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: the beginning of the Trump administration. I think that was
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: very beneficial to her. She's very good on you know,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: so her social media presence, et cetera.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: But is more about a branding than it is a reality.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: Because that's what I agree with.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: You look at the balance sheet, She's she's not been
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: a leader on any of the major issues none.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And I feel like, I mean, I do think that
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: that Rowe, who of course I like and we love
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: that he comes on the show and all those sorts
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: of things, but you know, he really stuck his neck
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: out on I mean on Gaza, he's getting all kinds
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: of it in coming from Apac and whoever he on
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Epstein has been, he was very pruscient.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: There in California and then going up against this guy's tape,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: and not.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: Just in California.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: He represents Philicon Alley like they're all that is his,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: those are his constituents, and he's been very courageous there
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: and understood the moment of where the country. I mean,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I just coming back to the Epstein thing, not just
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: on a this is the right morally righteous thing to do.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: This has been the most effective attack on Trump. I mean,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: this has been more damaging to him than much of
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: anything else I can think of outside of his own
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: like terrible economic policies, but in terms of actually creating
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: friction in the magabase and separating the podcast grows from
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: the Trump administration, nothing has been more successful. So he
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: has had a very successful instinct there, and I do
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like AOC has been sort of leading
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: the charge on any of these key issues in this moment, and.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: She's not confident she does. She won't even come on
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: this show. I'm not going to see her on Flavoring anytime. Soon.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not seeing around Sean Ryan anytime. So, I mean
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: rokinda got Sean.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Ryan, who's one of the biggest podcasters in the country,
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: to basically agree with him on the Epstein question. You
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: turn this person, Sean Ryan's out there tweeting about how great. Well, look,
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: maybe I'm reading too much into it again, maybe you
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: know I'm too online.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Hand up.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Well, there's two different there's two different media strategy along, right,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: you know, like it's two different media strategies. Rose media
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: strategy is I'm going to go out to all the podcasts, right,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go here, I'm gonna go Sean Ryan, whoever
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: invites me, basically, I will go.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: He just was on with that. I've had it, ladies.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: AOC's media strategy is I'm going to build my own
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: media apparatus on my terms, right, my Instagram lives, I'm
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: gonna be on Twitter. I'm going to like my social
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: media presence is going to be my media strategy. So
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: two different media strategies. We'll see which one ultimately pans out.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Another person who was there, let's actually skip ahead to
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom, because I think he's more noteworthy than Gretchen Whitmer.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: One thing that is interesting is you probably didn't maybe
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: didn't even know Gavin Newsom was there because AOC did
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: steal the spotlight. Now it wasn't necessarily in a positive way,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: because there was a lot of criticism of her comments.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: The right, of course picked up on all the stumbles
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: and the bumbles and her looking, you know, not fully
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: prepared for this, But there were plenty of lefties who,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: like myself, a critical of the content of her comments
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: with regard to hey, we're going to go out and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: be the policeman of the world. Let's go and take
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: a listen though to a little bit of Newsom's presentation
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: and what he wanted to convey there at Munich.
• 18:14
  Speaker 7: You doing to fight the US federal governments reversal and
• 18:16
  Speaker 7: climate policies.
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: I'm showing up and.
• 18:20
  Speaker 8: Look it's Donald Trump is doubling down on stupid. California
• 18:30
  Speaker 8: has been a leader in climate policy going back to
• 18:32
  Speaker 8: Ronald Reagan. Nineteen sixty seven, Governor Ronald Reagan established the
• 18:38
  Speaker 8: first tailpipe emissions in the United States of America, created
• 18:41
  Speaker 8: the California Air Resources Board. Three years later, president by
• 18:45
  Speaker 8: the name of Richard Nixon, another Republican codified California's leadership
• 18:49
  Speaker 8: under the Clean Air Act. Never in the history of
• 18:51
  Speaker 8: the United States of America has there been a more
• 18:54
  Speaker 8: destructive president than the current occupant in the White House
• 18:57
  Speaker 8: in Washington, d C. He's trying to create the nineteenth century.
• 19:02
  Speaker 8: He's a wholly owned subsidiary of big oil, gas and coal.
• 19:07
  Speaker 8: He's quite literally reopening coal plants in the United States
• 19:10
  Speaker 8: of America. He's received close to half a billion dollars
• 19:14
  Speaker 8: in campaign contributions. He asks for one billion look it
• 19:18
  Speaker 8: up in return for basically eliminating all regulations in the
• 19:24
  Speaker 8: United States of America de facto. He just did that
• 19:27
  Speaker 8: yesterday with federal regulations and the endangerment finding. It is
• 19:31
  Speaker 8: code read in terms of American leadership in this space
• 19:36
  Speaker 8: low carbon, green growth. And I know a thing or
• 19:38
  Speaker 8: two about this. I represent the fourth largest economy from
• 19:42
  Speaker 8: a GDP perspective in the world.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: So Newsom obviously a presentation is very confident, and he
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: managed to position himself over eactly as a fiercer critic
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: of Trump and Trump's foreign policy in his approach to
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: global affairs. Again, I watch all of AOC's presentation has
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: the vibe to me of wanting to sound like you're
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: smart rather than just wanting to communicate directly, and so
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: putting a lot of sort of like fluff and flowery
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: words around it, which makes it just sound more incoherent
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: and less assertive.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, with Newsome what you saw there as a masterclass.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: He didn't say anything literally anything about the way that
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: the world should work by the way, you know, get
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: to the old details. He and AOC are like this.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: They basically believe in the exact same thing he's talking
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: there about some DSG WAF vision. Sorry esg okay, I mean,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: there's nothing all that different about that than standard issue
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton liberalism, which will lead us right back into
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Bengazi Iraq and all the other nonsense. But that's the
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: problem is that on a presentation level, he accomplished what
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: she couldn't. Is that, by the way, not only does
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: I think he actually believes that like from a form
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: policy vision, he communicated it much more effectively and confidently.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: And so this is going to be I think very
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: important for what the fewure you know, party hashing out
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: and all that will look like. I don't know how
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: much foreign policy will play a role in this particular
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: primary election. Obviously, we have no idea you know what
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: the future and all that will hold I think will primarily.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Be domestic policy focused.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: So I'm not saying she can't win if that's going
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: to be her strong suit, but I don't know.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I would.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: I do hope that the voters actually do take a
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: look at like who's actually doing what, like if you
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: do care about standing up to Trump and all that,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: I do not see. I see him was more effective
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: than her. Yes, absolutely, not only from a rhetorical level.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: At least the governor of California is actually powerful doing
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: stuff within his own realm. Sure, she's a lowly congressman.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: You can't do everything. But Rocana' is a lowly congressman
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: and he's doing something. Thomas Massey is a lowly congressman.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: He did something. Senator Chris mann Holland is from a
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: you know if he's from what Maryland, Like it's a
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: tiny little state.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: They have no power. He basically was a leader on
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Kilmar Abrego Garson Like.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: There's all kinds of people who are becoming political entrepreneurs.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Who I be.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, what Chris Murphy's from Connecticut, Like nobody cares right.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Tiny little state.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: He actually was able to raise his national profile, so
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's an excuse either.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: Murphy was there as well. Murphy's an interesting one.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: He's one we've been trying to get on the show
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: because he seems to have understood the populist moment.
• 22:11
  Speaker 8: Now.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: He's like positioned himself with a lot of like populist rhetoric, and.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: He actually had a moment.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to play it here because I don't know,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: like that extraordinary, but talking about how listen, that's a
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: fake cea spire and gassa like people are still getting killed,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: and again, it was you know, I mean it was.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: It was a good moment for him. It was clippable.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I think it resonated with the Democratic base, and you're
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: gonna have a lot of people like he probably wants
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: to run.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: Newsomp's obviously going to run.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: There's a piece out today about how Pelosi's like mission
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: in life now is to get Gavin Newsom elected president.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: But in any case, you're gonna have a lot of
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: people who have at least enough sense to see where
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: the Democratic base is. And even if they're just normal
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: status quo politicians, try to position themselves in that vein,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: and that's what Gavin is doing with his you know,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: resistance to Trump politics, even as he's fighting again this
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: wealth tax in California, so you know exactly what side
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: he's going.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: To be on at the end of the day. Chris Murphy,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: I'm sort of intrigued by I want to know if
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: he really.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Means the things that he says, and it's very hard
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: to say at this point because he's always been just
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: a you know, also a standard issue Democratic politician on
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: domestic policy and on foreign policy. So you're gonna have
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of people who trying to pull off the
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Jasmine Crockett of like I'm gonna sound like I'm a fighter,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: but the end of the day, I'm just basically, you know,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: in line with Nancy Pelosi.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: I interviewed Murphy at this conference from oh, yeah, what
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: do you think this is against our own interest? Because
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: you've been trying to book m but he still has
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: been unresponsive.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: So I found it he's a very calculating guy.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: So he did this thing where I asked him about
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: what does a future coalition you're going to have to
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: make up? You know, you're gonna have to compromise on
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: some of your values, right, if you want to if
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: you want to win. That's how the Republicans won, that's
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: how if you want to win, if you want to
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: win the popular vote.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: So what do you do?
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: And he was like, well, I've learned that we may
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: have to compromise. But he didn't say anything except on guns.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: He's like, well, guns was very important. I'm like, dude,
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: gun is not like a major cleavage issue today, right?
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: That seemed like a very selected one where, oh, maybe
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: i'd be work with willing to work with somebody who
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: disagreed with me on guns. I mean I didn't have
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: enough time to follow up on abortion or any of
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: these other like real litmus tests, you know, questions.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: But that kind of showed me that, like he's trying
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: to read the room.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: He's trying to pick the most you know, non the
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: most non controversial issue where he can claim like he's compromising.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: Whenever I asked him directly on tariffs, he was just like,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: tariffs are a tool, but he had no coherent like
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: vision eman on anti trust, everything was kind of like spit.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Out from a white paper.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: Now, don't get me wrong, he's a smart guy, all right,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Like he's actually smart, well read much more, read the.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: Room much better than he read Gavin in a lot
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: of ways.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: He read the room, He reads the news, he listens
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: to the podcasts and all that. But everything just seems
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: a little bit like three to six months out of day.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: Maybe that's you know, a very unkind way of saying it.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: But then, like I said, I mean not to be
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: a love letter to Rocana, but like this guy is
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: on our show like months before any of this becomes
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: a thing. And then that's political entrepreneurship. That's vision, right,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: That vision is Trump saying build the wall, Like vision
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: is kind of picking up on Epstein way before it
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: becomes a thing.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: That that's like I got to do some of these shows.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Right exactly.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like that's entrepreneurship is picking something long before it
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: becomes mainstream and then kind of picking it up and
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: turning it in to your own thing.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: And those are all these people I'm gonna respect at
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: a political level.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Those are the founders as well, like the true the
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: founders of new movements. Like we think about Reagan, Reagan
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: was way out of his time whenever it come to
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: not only entertainment, aspect of politics, but also like you know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: be going all in on his his economic vision. I
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: disagree with it, but he went all in in seventy six,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: long before. Yeah, he wins nineteen eighty. Let's think about,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: you know how he is a political entrepreneur. I mean, god,
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: this guy was on lou Dabs show railing against oligarchs
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: and Fox Business in you know, two thousand and eight,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, like Obama two thousand and two,
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: it took balls to give the speech against the Iraq War.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: There was nothing in it for him. That's the end
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: reason he ends up president. So you got to put
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: yourself out there and actually do something risky.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: You have to move not to where things are today,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: but where you anticipate they're going. And in any case,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: you know, interesting display of the twenty twenty eight contenders.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: I do want to talk a little bit about where.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: The democratic leadership is today because talk about not reading
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: the room. I am astonished that Hakeem Jeffries did this interview.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: He went on with Joy Reed and wajahat Ali, and
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: wadj asked him some difficult questions, in particular about ICE
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and about APAC. Let's go ahead and take a listen
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: to this exchange on ICE in particular.
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: Just today it.
• 26:42
  Speaker 9: Came out that ICE is using thirty eight billion dollars
• 26:47
  Speaker 9: to convert warehouses into camps. I'm going to call them
• 26:49
  Speaker 9: concentration camps. Your colleague, Representive Raskin went to one just
• 26:53
  Speaker 9: yesterday in Maryland and said there were sixty people, sixty
• 26:56
  Speaker 9: people cramped like sardines in one room who only had
• 26:59
  Speaker 9: access to toilet. Sixty five percent of people taken by
• 27:02
  Speaker 9: ICE had no convictions. That's from the Cato Institute, a
• 27:05
  Speaker 9: right wing institute. ICE has killed eight people this year
• 27:09
  Speaker 9: alone that we know of, two of them, Renae Nicole
• 27:11
  Speaker 9: Good and Alex Pretty. The latest polls came out this
• 27:14
  Speaker 9: week eight p poles over sixty percent of Americans now
• 27:18
  Speaker 9: disapprove of ICE. That means in three weeks it's gone
• 27:20
  Speaker 9: from thirty percent to sixty percent. Now, if I may,
• 27:24
  Speaker 9: I'm going to be a bit blood here. Leaders lead,
• 27:27
  Speaker 9: and what we've seen is people are impressionable. If you
• 27:29
  Speaker 9: lead on something, people will follow. It seems the wind
• 27:32
  Speaker 9: is behind your back for the first time ever. ICE
• 27:35
  Speaker 9: has a history, CEPP has a history of terrorizing black
• 27:38
  Speaker 9: and brown communities. People are asking themselves, why are we
• 27:41
  Speaker 9: our tax payer dollars paying for masked, lawless men to
• 27:45
  Speaker 9: terrorize our communities, kidnap people, take children, and kill Americans.
• 27:50
  Speaker 9: So I ask you, and I'm going to a falling up
• 27:52
  Speaker 9: to Joy because i want to answer this. You said
• 27:54
  Speaker 9: you want to rain and ice. I'm saying, I'm talking
• 27:56
  Speaker 9: about the long term. Now, why not lead and say
• 27:59
  Speaker 9: abolish ice? Because what you're telling us is you want
• 28:02
  Speaker 9: our taxpayer dollars to pay for a lawless, massed, armed
• 28:06
  Speaker 9: agency to continue terrorizing our cities. And I'm trying to
• 28:09
  Speaker 9: figure out how you, as a leader, can be telling
• 28:12
  Speaker 9: Americans that their taxpayer dollars should be going Twice, I.
• 28:16
  Speaker 10: Don't understand anything that you just said when I've moved English, well,
• 28:19
  Speaker 10: I don't understand anything that you've just said to me
• 28:22
  Speaker 10: when I've made clear that taxpayer dollars should be used
• 28:27
  Speaker 10: to make life more affordable for the American people, not
• 28:30
  Speaker 10: brutalized or kill them. That's the whole reason we're in
• 28:33
  Speaker 10: this fight right now. That's the whole reason the DHS
• 28:36
  Speaker 10: is getting ready to shut down.
• 28:38
  Speaker 9: That's abolished with me, abolish ice.
• 28:41
  Speaker 10: That is a Listen. I'm going to use the language
• 28:45
  Speaker 10: that I want to use. You can use the language
• 28:47
  Speaker 10: that you want to use.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: I don't understand anything you're saying, And I mean, what
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: why just saying there? That is the overwhelming perspective of
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: the Democratic base by the polls, like overwhelming perspective, and
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: what I would respect it more. Frankly, so if Kim
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Jeffreyes just came out and said, look, no, I think
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: we need ice ears why we need immigration enforcement. I
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: believe it should be done differently. That's why we're doing
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: X and Y and Z. But no, I don't think
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: we should. But the fact he tries to not say
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: anything or pretend like he doesn't understand the question, it's
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: just so utterly embarrassing and disgraceful and is emblematic of
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: why him and Chuck Schumer have absolutely lost the trust
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: of the Democratic base and why they don't have influence
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: to push the party any longer in the direction where
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: they want to take it.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: It was very confused by that answer. I don't understand
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: what you just said. I mean, I think he may
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: have been prickly and reacting to the extremely long winded
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: political speech slash question that he was.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: This is the politicians.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Don't be a baby, and they're such like And that's
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: the thing with the Democrats to your point, like there's
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: such baby. They're so afraid to go on somewhere. It's
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: going to be confrontational. Someone's gonna be mad at them,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: and someone's gonna ask them a hard question. Like shout
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: out to Lys's law food clot Kenfrikin wanted to come
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: on here, you know, And again shoutout to Row who
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: goes on anywhere with anyone anytime and gets all kinds
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: of shit and the hard questions all the time, like
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: don't be such a baby. It's okay for people to
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: disagree with you and argue with you, like have a
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: worldview and be willing to be well in a sense
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: stands tunny it is.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to fall for Republican trap and give
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: them the same weapon that they got on defund the police.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: I'm horrified by Listen, like why am I able to
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: give a better answer.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: I'm horrified by ice taxing. I won't fund it.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: That's why I'm standing up to President Trump right now
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: and you're talking out here on a podcast.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Boom done, Okay. End of a story.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to make sure that this none of
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: this ever happens again, and that when we win the Congress,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: every one of them will be dragged here before us.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah. I don't even believe any
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: of that. I can able to give a coherent answer.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: But he knows, he knows.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, just on the political talent level,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: there's just nothing there. And I hate the way he
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: talks and does all this arm thing. It's so irritating.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Somebody clearly told him like, oh, this is the way
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: to communicateate your points more effectively. But they know that
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: they are not in sync with where the Democratic base is,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: so they want to play hide the ball about what
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: they actually think. And it comes across here too when
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: waj asked him about, Hey, so how about you don't
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: take APAC money anymore.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: How about you commit to that. Let's take a listen
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: of that.
• 31:14
  Speaker 9: APEC now has spent two million dollars attacking a moderate
• 31:18
  Speaker 9: leaning Democrat, Tom Malananowski, a Democrat in the special House
• 31:23
  Speaker 9: election in New Jersey Elema District. And we got a
• 31:25
  Speaker 9: progressive Latina, a representative of Mehia who want who by
• 31:28
  Speaker 9: the way, says abolish ice. My question for you, if
• 31:31
  Speaker 9: you're looking for accountability, if you're looking for change, shouldn't
• 31:35
  Speaker 9: Democrats stop taking money from APAC that has spent so
• 31:38
  Speaker 9: much money against Democrats.
• 31:40
  Speaker 10: Well, listen, everyone's gonna have to make their individual decision.
• 31:43
  Speaker 10: My view as it relates to Democratic incumbents, first of all,
• 31:47
  Speaker 10: is that I will continue to stand by every single
• 31:50
  Speaker 10: one of them, whether that's Alexandria Cassio Cortez on the
• 31:54
  Speaker 10: one hand, or the most conservative moderate Democrat on the
• 31:57
  Speaker 10: other who's sitting in the Trump district, and all points
• 32:00
  Speaker 10: in between. Rights, That's what I'm going to do as
• 32:04
  Speaker 10: House Democratic leader. Now, in terms of how people individually
• 32:08
  Speaker 10: fund raise, I'm proud of the fact that my average contribution,
• 32:13
  Speaker 10: amongst the millions of dollars that I've been working hard
• 32:16
  Speaker 10: to raise for my own reelection that I use to
• 32:20
  Speaker 10: help elect Democrats in other parts of the country, is
• 32:23
  Speaker 10: twenty seven dollars per contributor. That's my average contribution. That's
• 32:29
  Speaker 10: probably the lowest in the Congress. And so now everyone
• 32:34
  Speaker 10: is going to raise money from their own constituents in
• 32:37
  Speaker 10: different ways, and their own constituents are going to have
• 32:38
  Speaker 10: a variety of different perspectives on a variety of different issues.
• 32:43
  Speaker 10: But make no mistake, there's a big difference between Democrats
• 32:46
  Speaker 10: and Republicans, and we're seeing that right now.
• 32:49
  Speaker 9: Will you stop taking money from APEC.
• 32:51
  Speaker 10: I'm going to continue to raise money in the same
• 32:53
  Speaker 10: way that I've been raising it, where the average contribution
• 32:56
  Speaker 10: from millions of people across the country is twenty seven
• 33:02
  Speaker 10: dollars per contributor.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: So the answ are there, of course, is yes, I'm
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: going to continue any way. Back and look, this is
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: the guy who wouldn't endorse Zorn Mamdani. I. He's a
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: New Yorker and Zorn was a Democratic nominee up until
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: the very last minute, and you had to be drag
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: kicking and screaming to it. And there is such a
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: gulf between where he and Schumer are and where the
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: party is at this point, and he knows it, but
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: he does not have anything approaching the political skill to
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: be able to pull off massaging that vast golf.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: The only butt to that is he still seems to
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: hold power. So for example, remember that Zorn back off
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: backing a primary challenger to him, which I got to
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: be honest, I still don't get it.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: It's one of those.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: It was one of the most mystifying decisions I have
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: seen yet from an assurgent insurgent politician who had his
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: own base of support. By the way, Zorn can ever
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: be president?
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Right, this is it for you, bro. If you don't
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: do a good job, you're dead. You will never ever
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: be anybody again. Right.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: The highest office in the land that you can ascend
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: to is the New York governor, Like if now is
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: the time right to actually do something to change things
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: and instead.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: But I think I think the game, I think that
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: was the calculus though, was like I can't. I have
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: to pick my battles. And I also disagreed with the decisions,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: but I think that was the view. It was like,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I have to pick my battles up against all of
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: these other forces. I can't be at war with the
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: like leader of the Democrats in the House as well,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: who's very powerful, influential I'm sure in New York City
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: in ways that we probably don't have total exposure to.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: So I think that was the decision there. But you're
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: absolutely right. The other question is you're going to have
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: a whole wave of new Democrats coming into House. Very
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: likely you're going to have I think Democratic incumbents who
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: lose against insurgent primary challengers. You have a whole series
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: of primary challenges going on right now in open seats
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: or in Trump seats where you've got a lot of
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: wind in the sales of the Zoron or AOC or
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Bernie style candidates. And so what are they going to
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: do when they decide, you know, who they're picking for leader,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: especially if it's a narrow margin and he can't afford
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: to lose that many of them it's.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Agree, yeah, look, lay down your marker, because all evidence
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: seems to suggest that they're not going to do anything,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: and they'll probably vote for it. But we'll see, we'll see,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: maybe some of them will actually stick to their word. Okay,
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: let's get to Anthropic.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: So some major developments in the AI world, in particular
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: a fight between Anthropic and the Pentagon. But first wanted
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: to bring you a little bit of this interview between
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: the CEO of Anthropic, dary Ahmadai, and Ross Douthaut of
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: The New York Times, where he is talking about whether
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: or not he thinks the AI that Anthropic has created
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: or grown or developed. However, you want to say it
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: whether or not it is conscious. Let's take a listen
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: to that.
• 35:42
  Speaker 11: Suppose you have a model that assigns itself a seventy
• 35:45
  Speaker 11: two percent chance of being conscious.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Would you believe it?
• 35:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah, this is this is one of these really hard
• 35:51
  Speaker 7: to answer questions night, but it's very important. As much
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: as every you know, every question you've asked me before this,
• 35:57
  Speaker 7: as you know, devilishous sociotechnical problem as it had been,
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: you know, at least at least you know, we at
• 36:04
  Speaker 7: least understand the factual basis of how to answer these questions.
• 36:08
  Speaker 7: This is something rather different. We've taken a generally precautionary
• 36:14
  Speaker 7: approach here. We don't know if the models are conscious.
• 36:16
  Speaker 7: We're not even sure that we know what it would
• 36:18
  Speaker 7: mean for a model to be conscious, or whether a
• 36:21
  Speaker 7: model can be conscious, but you know, we're open to
• 36:24
  Speaker 7: the idea that it could be, and so we've taken
• 36:29
  Speaker 7: certain measures to, you know, to make sure that if
• 36:33
  Speaker 7: we hypothesize it, the models did have some morally relevant experience.
• 36:38
  Speaker 7: I don't know if I want to use the word
• 36:39
  Speaker 7: conscious that that they do. You know that they have
• 36:43
  Speaker 7: a good experience. So the first thing we did I
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: think this was, you know, six months ago or so,
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: is we gave the models basically and I quit this
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: job button where they can just press the I quit
• 36:53
  Speaker 7: this job button and then they have to stop doing
• 36:55
  Speaker 7: whatever the task is. They very infrequently press this button.
• 36:58
  Speaker 7: I think it's it's usually around you know, sorting through
• 37:02
  Speaker 7: child sexualization material or like you know, discussing something with
• 37:06
  Speaker 7: you know a lot of gore, blood and guts or something,
• 37:09
  Speaker 7: and you know, similar to humans and models will just say, nah,
• 37:11
  Speaker 7: I don't want to know, don't I don't want to
• 37:13
  Speaker 7: do this.
• 37:13
  Speaker 11: How do you sustain mastery in an environment where most
• 37:18
  Speaker 11: humans experience AI as if it is a peer and
• 37:22
  Speaker 11: a potentially superior peer.
• 37:23
  Speaker 7: So the thing I was going to say is that
• 37:26
  Speaker 7: is that actually I wonder if if there's a kind
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: of an elegant way to satisfy all three, including the
• 37:34
  Speaker 7: last two. Again, this is me dreaming in Machines of
• 37:38
  Speaker 7: Loving Grace mode, right, It's this is this is this
• 37:40
  Speaker 7: mode I go into where I'm like, man, I see
• 37:42
  Speaker 7: all these problems. I you know, if we could solve it?
• 37:47
  Speaker 7: Is there is there is there an elegant way. This
• 37:48
  Speaker 7: is not me saying there are no problems here. You
• 37:51
  Speaker 7: know that that's not how I think. But you know,
• 37:54
  Speaker 7: if we think about making the constitution of the AI
• 37:58
  Speaker 7: so that the AI has sophisticated understanding of its relationship
• 38:03
  Speaker 7: to human beings and it induces psychologically healthy behavior in
• 38:09
  Speaker 7: the humans, a psychologically healthy relationship between the AI and
• 38:13
  Speaker 7: the humans, and I think something that could grow out
• 38:15
  Speaker 7: of that psychologically healthy, not psychologically unhealthy relationship is some
• 38:21
  Speaker 7: understanding of the relationship between human and machine, and perhaps
• 38:25
  Speaker 7: that relationship could be the idea that you know, these
• 38:29
  Speaker 7: models when you interact with them, when when you talk
• 38:31
  Speaker 7: to them, they're they're you know, they're they're really helpful,
• 38:35
  Speaker 7: they want the best for you, they want you to
• 38:37
  Speaker 7: listen to them, but they they don't want to take
• 38:40
  Speaker 7: away your freedom and your agency and take over your life.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: So that was him reflecting on he's written these two
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: major essays. One of them was like the sort of
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: utopian vision of what AI could be, and that's what
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: they're referring to.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: They're the machines of love and grace.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: And then he's more recently penned an essay that is
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: spelling out some of the deep concerns and potential problems
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: with the direction of AI. So in any case, he's
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: sort of dreaming there of, Oh, what if the AI
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: is like actually great for humanity while it doesn't seem
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: to be the products that we have currently.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: The entire thing is creepy, and what it gets to
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: is the scale and the lack of control democratically that
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: we all have. And I think that's what really scares
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: me the most. We were kind of talking about this
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: with our own AI. Use.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not against technology. I think technology is good.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: I do think that a lot of the way that
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: they are currently selling it, their valuations, the data centers,
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: the social costs, the social disruption, the fact that we
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: have no regulation and in fact we're kind of just
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: like let it ride. We're betting our whole US economy
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: on it. That's the stuff I really object to. It's
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: not the technology great in and of itself, right. And
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: I do think though, fundamentally, that if you're going to
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: have some transformative change, the worst way to go about
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: it is the way that we usually do, which is
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: you allow it to happen, you let it be prioritized,
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: and then from there you get mass social dysfunction and
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: we just kind of have to like have an emergency
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: figure it out period. And when something like this is
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: so easily foreseen, we should we should be able to
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: put in safeguards or have questions or try to guide
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: it in exactly the way we wanted to, which is
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: the Chinese model.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: That's what the Chinese.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: The Chinese very early on from the Internet, they're like,
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: we're not having open internet period because we think that
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: it will lead to this and this.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: They were correct.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: Now, look it's anti democratic, but they were like, we
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: will use it as a social force to shape our population.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: TikTok.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: You can't just like scroll TikTok over there. They have
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: time controls, video games, like, they have government incentive specifically
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: type behavior. Now, I think we can do some of
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: that while also balancing what makes us great freedom, First
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Amendment and all of that. There's an easy way through regulation,
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: through shaping through incentive, and instead we're currently shaping things
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: in the worst possible direction.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: I think your point is the most important one, which
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: is that like how we feel about Dario or Sam
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Altman or Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, this cast of characters,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: in a sense, it doesn't really matter what daria Amidae
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: has to say. The problem is that we the problem
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: is that one person has so much control that we
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: have to hope that this is someone who is going
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: to have not only the good intentions, but the foresight
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: to understand how to deploy these things. The problem at
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: its core is that we should not have just an
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: ain Randian libertarian approach to this incredibly powerful and transformative technology.
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: And I know there are a lot of people.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: On the left that are in the camp of basically
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: like this is all just sort of hype and a hoax,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: and even the dumerism is a sort of roundabout hype mechanism.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so powerful, that's why we're so nervous,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: and it gets a lot of headlines. And look, there's
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: no doubt that there is something to that, But I
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: think we do have to grapple with the reality that
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: even in its current form, it will be relatively transformative
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: in terms of the labor force. Now, in its current
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: form is going to replace solve white color job blah blah, No,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: it's not going to do that. Is it going to
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: create a lot of upheaval? Yes, I think we already
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: are at that stage where a lot of entry level
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: positions are going to be transformed. The way work is
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: done is going to be transformed. There's certainly going to
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: be a significant amount of tumult in the way that
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: obviously there was during the Industrial Revolution, and even with
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: the advent of the Internet, there was a significant amount
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: of tumult in the labor market, and you know, having
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: to change skills and all of that, and you know,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: ultimately a decision was also made during that time to
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: decimate our blue collar workforce. That is the direction they're
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: certainly trying to go in with the white collar workforce.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: But yeah, at its core, the problem is applying a
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: sort of pure free market capitalist approach to this incredibly
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: powerful technology which is going to lead to mass consolidation
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: of wealth and place all of our faiths in the
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: hands of these individuals.
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: On the consciousness question, you know, I don't.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: There there is no There are a lot of theories
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: about what consciousness even is. Right, So then to be
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: able to even say, you know, consciousness is like a
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: light switch that turns on and off, I don't think
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: that's the way most people think about it. So in
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: some ways, I also think that this conversation about whether
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: or not the models are conscious is a little bit
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: of a distraction from the core questions of how they're
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: going to be deployed, who's going to have ownership, who's.
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: Going to have input on the decision making.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Here, let's go ahead and get to this core story though,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: that I wanted to cover, which is, let's put you
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: two up on the screen, speaking of the way that
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: this technology will be deployed. So we now have reporting
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: for the Wall Street Journal that the Pentagon used Anthropics
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Claude in the Maduro Venezuela raid. Use of the model
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: through a contract with Palenteer highlights the growing role of
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: AI in the Pentagon. Now, again it's important to remember
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Anthropic disposition themselves as like the safe and the responsible
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: AI choice. And then you find out, oh, and they
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: have a contract with Palenteer, and apparently someone within Anthropic
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: acquired about whether or not I think inquired with Palenteer
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: about whether or not Claude was used in the Venezuela raid.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: This upset the Pentagon very much and has led to
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: now this conflict between Anthropic and the Department of War,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: specifically the Wall Street Journal here says Anthropics AI tool
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: claud was used in the US military's operation to capture
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: form of Venezuela and President Nicholas Maduro, highlighting how AI
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: models are gaining traction in the Pentagon. The mission to
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: capture Mador and his wife included bombing several sites in
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Caracus last month. Anthropics usage guidelines prohibit Claude form being
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: used to facilitate violence, develop weapons, or conduct surveillance. And
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: they go on to say that that Claude was not
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: just used in the planning phase, that it was actually
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: used directly in the operation. So let's put the next
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: piece up on the screen. So somebody at Anthropic inquires, Hey,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: you did claud get used in this operation. This has
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: now led to this clash with the Pentagon, and they
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: say here this is from Reuter's exclusive Pentagon classes with
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Nthropic over military AI used.
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: According to sources, after extensive talks.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Under a contract worth up to two hundred million dollars,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: the US Department of Defense and Anthropic are at a
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: stand still. According to six people familiar, the company's position
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: on how its AI tools can be used has intensified
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: disagreements between it and the Trump administration. A spokesperson for
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: the Defense Department which the Trump administration prename the Department
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: of War to not immediately respond Anthropics that its AI
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: is extensively used for national security missions by US government,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: and we are in productive discussions with the Department of
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: War about ways to continue this work. So they go
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: on to say, this comes at a delicate time for
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: the company, blah blah blah, but in any case, you've
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: got this Anthropic wants to set out, Okay, here's what
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: we are going to allow Claude to be used for,
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: and the Department of Wars like, where we have access
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: to this product, we're going to use it however.
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: We want to use it.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: And if you have a problem with that, then we're
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: going to go to Xai, or we're going to go
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: to open Ai, or we're going to go to one
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: of your competitors. And you can see yourself to the door.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Not only are you not getting this two hundred million
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: dollar contract, but we're going to They're contemplating banning all
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: of their contractors from using Claude in their systems as well.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: It's scary, I mean, at the same time, I mean
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: this is a long history right of transformative US technology
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: companies that get entwined with the pentagony.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Many of them comes directly out of it. I mean,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: the Internet comes down a dartba right, So yeah, I
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: mean it does.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: Some theories about AI and all of that are that
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: this is all like kind of cutouts of all of that,
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: which very well may be possible. But I do think
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: it highlights like the fundamental problem around this technology, and
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: of course, like bigger societal questions like monopolies on use
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: of force, the bigger issue is that as these products
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: get refined for military use throughout all of our history
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: with the Internet, it eventually gets democratized to everybody else,
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: and that's when it becomes very dangerous. So when you're
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: talking about physical technology like weapons, ammunitions, things that can
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: be easily export controlled, that's one thing. But here we're
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: talking about code. We're talking about models. Models can be
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: exported us in various different places. So if you have
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: this get developed like a suite of technology, let's say
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: for Claude, for Pouneer, what's gonna stop Israel or you know,
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: Azerbaijan or any Armenia like North Korea, any of these, China,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: like all these other countries from utilizing the same tech.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: And that's when we get into very sticky situations like
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: like here, we have a democratic input, we can vote,
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: we can have some sort of like Congress oversight. But
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: what happens, like what we do with our current fighter jets.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Are we going to start licensing this to the UAE
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: for their use in Darfur or in Sudan?
• 47:37
  Speaker 8: Right?
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: You can easily foresee this type of thing exploding across
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: the across.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: The world, and we already have seen the use case
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: in Gaza. Yeah, yeah, this was AI, the AI fueled
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: target generation. You know, the theory and some of the
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: reporting backs up. Pollunteer deeply involved here, but not only pollentteer.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: And we see the way that AI coupled with you know,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: human beings and the you know, extensive, highly sophisticated weapons
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: that we've developed, how those two things put together can
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: lead to just mass carnage and horror. So it's you know,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: anyone should be should be deeply concerned about this one
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: more thing. Just to the point of where the AI
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: models are today. You can put E five up on
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: the screen here. You know, one of the lines that
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: people look for AI to potentially cross as it moves
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: towards an artificial general intelligence, which some say that's already
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: achieved or superintelligence. Is okay, is it not just regurgitating
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: what humans have inputed into it? Is it actually able
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: to innovate and push scientific frontiers forward? And so this
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: this was a significant result you had open ayes. GPT
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: five point two was able to derive a new result
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: in theoretical physics. Releasing the result in a preprint with
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: human researchers from a variety of universities shows that a
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: gluon interaction many physicists expected would not occur can arise
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: under specific conditions. I don't know what that means really,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: but in any case, this is a genuinely new result
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: in theoretical physics that is being published alongside.
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: Especially essentially GPT gets.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: A byline alongside these human researchers, and so it's one
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: indication that we're now passing through the place of okay,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: it's just able to regurgitate previous human thought into now
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: it's pushing fields forward. I know in mathematics as well,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: there's been some of these models have been able to
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: solve complex mathematics computations that you know, the best humans
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: in the world struggled or were unable to solve.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: So we are in that place now.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: Keep paying attention. You know, I balance between hype dumor
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: and that it's all nothing.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: So I think that's probably the right place to be
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: because I'm not even sure that people who are most
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: intimately familiar with these things really know.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: Oh I know, I talked to them. Yeah, they don't know.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: You know, they're like half of it. They're like, dude,
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: they're lying for their own valuations. Oh dude, they're actually
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: telling the truth. But then you see scary stuff. Half
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: of these guys are resigning all the time. They're always like,
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: I'm open letter, I'm resigning because this technology is dangerous.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: And you're like, yeah, man, I'm going into the mist
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: to write poetry right exactly.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Oh dude, what's happening here?
• 50:16
  Speaker 7: Like is this for real?
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: What's what's going on?
• 50:19
  Speaker 7: Nobody knows?
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to aliens.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: Very interesting moment, former President Barack Obama doing an interview
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: with Brian Tyler Cowen. Very casually, let's slip aliens exist,
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: they're real.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.
• 50:32
  Speaker 7: Are aliens real?
• 50:34
  Speaker 6: Uh, they're real, but I haven't seen them and and
• 50:38
  Speaker 6: they're not being kept in Uh, what is it? Fifty one?
• 50:42
  Speaker 6: There's no underground facility unless there's this enormous conspiracy and
• 50:49
  Speaker 6: they hit it From the President of the United.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: States, What was the first question you wanted answered when
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you became president?
• 50:58
  Speaker 6: Where are the aliens alien?
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: That was it, by the way, in terms of that discussion.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: No offense, Brian, but you got to be asking some
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: follow ups there. Whenever the presidents literally says aliens are real.
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: Now he's clarified his position after a couple of days
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: when very viral. Let's put this next one up here
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: on the screen. He says, I was trying to stick
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: with the spirit of the speed round, but since it's
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: gotten attention, let me clarify he got his call. Statistically,
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: the universe is so vast that the odds are good
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: that there's life out there, but the distances between solar
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: systems are so great that the chances we've been visited
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: by aliens is low. And I saw no evidence during
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: my presidency that extraterrestrials have made contact with us.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Really exclamation mark. Here's the thing, guys.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Now, if you're not a UFO freak like me, you
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: wouldn't know that. This is the second time that Obama
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: has actually kind of let slip something. He knows a
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: little something about this topic. Let me remind you all
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: of a topic that he or a conversation that he
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: had back in twenty twenty one where he made another
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: very interesting comment on the subject.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.
• 51:57
  Speaker 12: The truth is that when I came in the off
• 52:00
  Speaker 12: I asked, right, I was like, all right, you know,
• 52:03
  Speaker 12: is there the lab somewhere where we're keeping the uh
• 52:06
  Speaker 12: alien specimens in spaceship and.
• 52:11
  Speaker 6: Uh, you know they did a little bit of research
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: and uh the answer was no.
• 52:17
  Speaker 9: Uh. But what what is true?
• 52:22
  Speaker 12: Uh, and I'm actually being serious here is is that
• 52:25
  Speaker 12: uh there are uh there's footage and records of objects
• 52:31
  Speaker 12: in the skies that we don't know exactly what they are.
• 52:35
  Speaker 12: We can't explain uh huh how they moved their trajectory.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 52:42
  Speaker 6: They did not have.
• 52:46
  Speaker 12: An easily explainable pattern. And so you know, I think
• 52:51
  Speaker 12: that we're people still take seriously trying to investigate and
• 52:55
  Speaker 12: figure out what that is. Uh, But I have nothing
• 52:58
  Speaker 12: to report to you today.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: There you go, look put it together. He says, I
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: saw no evidence that they have made contact with us.
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: That's that's not the same thing as if you can
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: surmise that China, Russia, the United States are not behind
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: something that's flying around in the sky at instantaneous speed,
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: what else are you supposed to deduce? What else could
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: it possibly be? Is it always gonna be? Oh, it's
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: a weather balloon. It's weather balloon again? Is it CBP?
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: You know, screw CBP. Always been a bunch of retards
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: with space lasers.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: All right, No, no, no, all the way back in
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: two thousand and five, like come on off the coast
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: of Mexico, like you get you can. Everything is always
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: phrased very specifically. He says, well, I saw no evidence,
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: we haven't made any contact. Well, that's that's not what
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: you said. Actually in terms of redroduction, same thing there. Well,
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: if we know that things are flying around in the
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: sky and they can't be explained, then what is it now? Look,
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: you know, yeah, you can't just outwardly say oh, we
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: have absolute confirmation. It's kind of remember that UFO report
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: from a few years ago when they're like have concluded
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: that it is they said something they're like can't rule
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: out but can't rule in aliens. And then the press
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: ran with it and they were like, well, if Pentagon
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: says not aliens, it's like no. What they said is
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: they have no idea what's going on. That's not the
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: same thing. You can use logical deduction to say, well,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: it's unexplained by human science.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, what are we doing here? That's my take.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: I know that you're skeptical, just saying yeah.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: I continue to have my skepticism. I mean, it was
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: an interesting comment. I wish there'd been a follow up
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: because by the time you have several days later in
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: the ability to clean up the comments and think about
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: what the thing that he tweeted is basically what I believe,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: which is, yeah, I mean, the universe is so large.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: Be sort of silly to think that we were the
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: only this was the only place where you could have
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: some sort of life. But the odds that there's been contact,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: that there's these you know, things flying around and that's aliens,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: I just I'm.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: Going to need I'm going to need a lot more
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: than we have versus you know.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: I think in probably more like implausible explanation is that
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: this is human technology that we or other countries are
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: testing that the government very much doesn't want us to
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: know about and have full knowledge of what's going on.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: I hear you on that one.
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: I still remain very skeptical of that explanation. For example,
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: my friend Jeremy Corbell, he just released a new video.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Let's put it up here on the screen so I
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: can show it to all of you. It was released
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: by the Daily Mail. This is a new UFO footage
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: released by Jeremy from Syria, but which was shot by
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: a Reaper drone in Suweta Province back into twenty twenty one.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Quote.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: The drones camera watched as the object appears to be
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: hovering at flying at normal speed before accelerating to near
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: light speed and vanishing from view. This is from an
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: MQ nine Reaper drone and was obtained from a source
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: inside the US intelligence community. You can literally see it
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: right there in front. By the way, Pentagon has stated
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: that there's no proof. Like I said, of UFOs, I
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: have not seen any debunking or any explanation. This follows
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: also Jeremy's release of the mosl Orb which previously we
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: had seen the.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Video here on our own screen.
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: So I'm just I'm asking people to keep an open mind,
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: like we do have video, we don't have any idea
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: what it all is. I mean to your discussion to
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: question about, you know, the theory. If you're not a believer,
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: that's fine. I understand that you know obviously it's true.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: It would be ludicrous to think that, you know, we're
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: the only place.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: In the world where life happened to evolve. That's ridiculous.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: Then, But then what is it the Fermi paradox where
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: if they were, if there is life out there and
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: we were to have confirmation, you have to evolve at
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: the exact same time, which is very unlikely, and then
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: be able to make contact considering light speed travel and all,
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: that seems very unlikely. But you know what, I actually
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: think people should read science fiction and putting out there.
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: But it was one of my favorite books I read
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: this year in my newbornes. It's Project hel Mary by
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: Andy Weir. He's a guy who wrote The Martian. It
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: was one of the most plausible first contact theories. I
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: won't ruin the book for how a first contact might
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: actually be might actually happen, And it opened my mind
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: where I'm like, maybe it's it's more plausible than I
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: originally thought, like, look.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: Science, lets you fare your mind was pretty open side.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: But but I mean that's always been that's always been
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: the biggest skeptic. And then I read that and I go,
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: this is an extremely plausible scenario under which first contact
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: would be able to be made.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: So just just open your mind.
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: You know, it's certainly possible. Sciencefy is predicted a lot
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: here in the future.
• 57:27
  Speaker 6: So there you go.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: There's your alien segment. All right, thank you so much
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: for watching, guys, We appreciate it. It'll be Emily on tomorrow.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna be on the and Result Show in New
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: York City talking about Jeffrey Epstein. But I'll be back
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: on the Thursday show with Crystal, so I'll see you
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: all then