Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags: Double Murder in the Low Country (episode 2)

Transcript

Body Bags: Double Murder in the Low Country (episode 2) · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Bodybags. Scott Morgan has been on over ten thousand death scenes,
0:07
Speaker 1: and now he takes apart in a way that only
0:10
Speaker 1: he can the homicides that we are all investigating. Body Bags.
0:19
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I don't
0:39
Speaker 1: know about y'all, but I gotta tell you I couldn't
0:43
Speaker 1: even fathom driving up to my property where my family
0:46
Speaker 1: had probably celebrated holidays and enjoyed one another's company for
0:51
Speaker 1: years and years, getting out of my vehicle and ten
0:54
Speaker 1: o'clock at night, it's dark everywhere, and looking off in
0:57
Speaker 1: the distance and seeing two forms laying on ground. Sound
1:00
Speaker 1: it's the bodies of my wife and my son, apparently
1:05
Speaker 1: shot down. They're in the darkness. On the evening of
1:09
Speaker 1: June seventh, twenty twenty one, that's when this nightmare started
1:14
Speaker 1: in the low country of South Carolina. I'm Joseph Scott
1:19
Speaker 1: Morgan and this his body backs. Joining me today is
1:27
Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie,
1:32
Speaker 1: what can you tell us about what I'm calling the
1:34
Speaker 1: Murdoch executions that took place on that faithful night, Joe,
1:39
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Alexander Alec Murdoch found their bodies around
1:43
Speaker 1: ten PM near the kennels of their seventeen hundred acre property.
1:48
Speaker 1: During the nine one one call, Alex Murdoch was crying
1:51
Speaker 1: and you could hear him telling the operators that he
1:54
Speaker 1: found his wife and his son shot. Details of this
1:58
Speaker 1: incident have been redacted as those reports have been released,
2:01
Speaker 1: but one of the main pieces of information that we
2:04
Speaker 1: do know is that the murdas, Paul and Maggie, were
2:09
Speaker 1: shot with two different firearms. Paul twenty two, was shot
2:13
Speaker 1: multiple times with a shotgun. His mother, fifty two year
2:17
Speaker 1: old Maggie, was killed with a semi automatic rifle. And
2:20
Speaker 1: this has started an investigation that has taken so many
2:24
Speaker 1: twists and turns, including finding relations to three other deaths
2:29
Speaker 1: and a possible suicide attempt by the father, Alex Murdoch.
2:34
Speaker 1: At the time of his death, Paul Murdall was facing
2:36
Speaker 1: a three felony count of boating under the influence charges
2:40
Speaker 1: concerning the accidental death of nineteen year old Mallory Beach.
2:44
Speaker 1: She was ejected from the boat when Paul, who was
2:47
Speaker 1: allegedly drunk driving at that time. In February of twenty
2:51
Speaker 1: nineteen ran into a piling and Mallory was ejected from
2:56
Speaker 1: the boat. There's also the death of Gloria Satterfield, the
3:00
Speaker 1: housekeeper who died from a slip and fall. There's also
3:04
Speaker 1: Steven Smith. He was a nineteen year old who was
3:07
Speaker 1: found in the middle of the roadway in July of
3:10
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. There is information linking that death to this
3:14
Speaker 1: case as well. So far, no one has been criminally
3:18
Speaker 1: charged in connection with Maggie and Paul Murdock's death. The
3:21
Speaker 1: only charges that have been leveled so far were the
3:24
Speaker 1: charges that Paul Murdoch was facing in relationship to the
3:28
Speaker 1: Mallory Beach death. So, Joe, there is a saying in
3:31
Speaker 1: broadcasting there are more questions that answers, and in this
3:35
Speaker 1: case it is so true. There are so many more
3:38
Speaker 1: questions than answers. So let's see what we can kind
3:40
Speaker 1: of figure out here. Let's start with finding the bodies.
3:45
Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch called nine one one. The bodies were found
3:49
Speaker 1: near the kennels on the property. Where do we start.
3:53
Speaker 1: I heard about this case, I was you know, it's
3:55
Speaker 1: not too often that you encounter case as an investigator
4:00
Speaker 1: where you have actually a double what would seem at
4:04
Speaker 1: least to be a double execution style homicide, and that's
4:08
Speaker 1: kind of what it's been portrayed us. And I have
4:11
Speaker 1: to say, the bodies, as we all know, in you know,
4:16
Speaker 1: in most death investigations, are the central factor in a case.
4:19
Speaker 1: So just imagine, if you will, a wagon wheel that
4:23
Speaker 1: has a central hub. The bodies are actually that central hub,
4:28
Speaker 1: and everything else Just get this word picture in your mind.
4:30
Speaker 1: Everything else just kind of radiates out from there, any
4:33
Speaker 1: kind of evidence gathering, that sort of thing. So the bodies,
4:36
Speaker 1: for our purposes are the most essential piece of information,
4:40
Speaker 1: or they at least can give us the most essential
4:42
Speaker 1: information in this case. So the one thing that you
4:45
Speaker 1: want to consider as you're beginning to look at these bodies,
4:48
Speaker 1: and remember, Alex Murdo actually observed these bodies first, which
4:52
Speaker 1: is critical. You know, he is he's the father, he's
4:57
Speaker 1: the husband, he's the one that actually found on the bodies,
5:00
Speaker 1: as opposed to anyone else that wasn't hired help. It
5:03
Speaker 1: was an extended family, it was him that had eyes
5:07
Speaker 1: on first. So you know, as an investigator, one of
5:10
Speaker 1: the things I'm going to want to know and want
5:12
Speaker 1: to observe here is a physical placement of the bodies
5:16
Speaker 1: relative to one another, you know, because it's so odd
5:19
Speaker 1: to have a double, like I said, double execution, So
5:22
Speaker 1: you've got essentially a mother and her son. Were when
5:27
Speaker 1: they observed these bodies, Were they lined side by side
5:30
Speaker 1: just kind of neatly there? You know, that would if
5:34
Speaker 1: you saw that, that would give you an indication that
5:38
Speaker 1: more than likely they had been placed very close to
5:41
Speaker 1: one another, as opposed to, say, for instance, a random
5:46
Speaker 1: type of event where you have an individual that is
5:49
Speaker 1: essentially shot and then the other one is chased down
5:53
Speaker 1: and shot in maybe close proximity, but in kind of
5:56
Speaker 1: a disordered fashion. But where these bodies when initially found,
6:00
Speaker 1: were they lying side by side? Say the shoulders are
6:03
Speaker 1: parallel to one another, side by side, so that you know,
6:07
Speaker 1: their feet were perfectly aligned, their heads were perfectly aligned. Right,
6:10
Speaker 1: There is one piece of information that I can fill
6:12
Speaker 1: in Apporting to the police reports, their bodies were several
6:16
Speaker 1: feet apart from each other. So what is that going
6:19
Speaker 1: to tell you? I think my question would be has
6:22
Speaker 1: been reported by the news. What does several feet mean?
6:26
Speaker 1: Are we talking three feet? Are we talking six feet?
6:30
Speaker 1: Or are we talking ten feet away? Maybe? If we
6:33
Speaker 1: look at it from that perspective, maybe if it was
6:35
Speaker 1: several feet like I don't know, maybe up to twenty
6:38
Speaker 1: feet away, maybe you had an individual that had taken
6:41
Speaker 1: one of the victims and shot them, and the other
6:45
Speaker 1: person was essentially held in one location and they were
6:49
Speaker 1: shot separately. Maybe they were forced to watch. Can you
6:52
Speaker 1: imagine the horror in that? Or were they essentially taken apart?
6:58
Speaker 1: Because you know, one of the things that I'm thinking
6:59
Speaker 1: about in this particular case, since we've got and we'll
7:03
Speaker 1: get to this in just a minute, but since we've
7:04
Speaker 1: got two weapons here, that implies to me that we
7:08
Speaker 1: probably have two shooters, because why would one individual need
7:14
Speaker 1: two separate weapons. And we're not talking about pistols here, Okay,
7:18
Speaker 1: we're talking about long arms. So it gives me an
7:21
Speaker 1: idea that you have two individuals holding these two separate
7:25
Speaker 1: weapons at a distance. Well, maybe the bodies were separated,
7:30
Speaker 1: you know, as they've put several feet away. Maybe they're
7:33
Speaker 1: separated because neither one of the shooters wanted to be shot.
7:38
Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't want to transfer evidence to one another.
7:41
Speaker 1: Maybe they did it not in sync, but they did
7:44
Speaker 1: it essentially with a pause, perhaps to send a message
7:47
Speaker 1: or maybe too exact information from these two individuals. Maybe
7:52
Speaker 1: an individual had information that they wanted for another and
7:56
Speaker 1: they essentially liquidated one before they liquidated the other. And
8:00
Speaker 1: I think all of these things are probably going through
8:01
Speaker 1: the minds of the police officers out there. Could one person,
8:06
Speaker 1: you know, we talk about having two different weapons, but
8:09
Speaker 1: could one person have managed both weapons considering one of
8:13
Speaker 1: them was an assault type rifle? Yeah, you know, that's
8:18
Speaker 1: very interesting since you know, you bring up this term
8:21
Speaker 1: assault rifle, and when you think about it, I'd like
8:24
Speaker 1: the listeners to think about a tactical weapon, kind of
8:27
Speaker 1: a military grade rifle, you know, kind of like what
8:31
Speaker 1: our troops carry. An M four carbing in civilian parlance
8:37
Speaker 1: as known as an AR fifteen fires what's called a
8:41
Speaker 1: five point five six millimeter round. Yeah. You could shoulder
8:46
Speaker 1: sling that weapon and you can put it, you know
8:49
Speaker 1: kind of, or you can chest sling it too and
8:52
Speaker 1: carry the shotgun and be free handed and doing it.
8:55
Speaker 1: But why why would you do that? Why would you
8:58
Speaker 1: need the utility of two long arms? Because long arms
9:02
Speaker 1: are hard to manage. Okay, there you have to swing
9:05
Speaker 1: the muzzle around and all these sorts of things. And
9:07
Speaker 1: if you're attempting to essentially kill two individuals, you want
9:13
Speaker 1: to have kind of an economy in movement. You want
9:16
Speaker 1: to be able to herd them in one particular direction.
9:20
Speaker 1: And that's another thing that comes in here that brings
9:22
Speaker 1: us back to the bodies. With the type of weapons
9:24
Speaker 1: that we're used, and we know that each body was
9:27
Speaker 1: shot multiple times, what kind of damage does that do
9:31
Speaker 1: to a body? One of the things that we would
9:33
Speaker 1: be looking for when with both of these weapons platforms,
9:36
Speaker 1: both a shotgun and a tactical weapon like this, the
9:40
Speaker 1: damage or the trauma that both of these weapons would
9:43
Speaker 1: inflict on either one of these subjects is going to
9:48
Speaker 1: be over the top. It's going to be massive, if
9:53
Speaker 1: you will, and a lot of that is going to
9:55
Speaker 1: be dependent upon where they are shot anatomically, where these arrange. Say,
9:59
Speaker 1: for since, if you have an individual that is shot
10:02
Speaker 1: in the head with a shotgun, and not only are
10:06
Speaker 1: you having to deal with the actual projectile that is
10:10
Speaker 1: coming out of the end of that weapon, And think
10:13
Speaker 1: about this, if it was buckshot, you're talking about multiple
10:17
Speaker 1: essentially thirty two caliber slugs or pellets that are going
10:22
Speaker 1: down rage. So it'd be like being shot in multiple
10:25
Speaker 1: times by thirty two caliber pistol only at the same time.
10:29
Speaker 1: So just factor that into your thought relative to the
10:33
Speaker 1: amount of damage. And not only that, coming out of
10:36
Speaker 1: the muzzle of this weapon, you've got a tremendous amount
10:39
Speaker 1: of gas. So let's just say, for instance, someone took
10:43
Speaker 1: that weapon and placed it at the back of an
10:48
Speaker 1: individual's head. Not only are the projectiles being driven into
10:53
Speaker 1: the body, into the head, you're also talking about hot
10:57
Speaker 1: air and what does hot air do well? It fans
11:00
Speaker 1: and that's why you get these grotesque injuries sometimes because
11:03
Speaker 1: we all know that hot air expands, it's superheated, and
11:07
Speaker 1: as it expands, it just does great destruction to the body.
11:11
Speaker 1: And you know, from what we understand, at least relative
11:14
Speaker 1: to Paul, he was probably shot in multiple times with
11:18
Speaker 1: a shot gun, So it'd be very and from an
11:22
Speaker 1: investigative standpoint, when you're examining the body, you want to
11:26
Speaker 1: try to understand, well, what attitude was his body in
11:30
Speaker 1: when he was fired upon. Was he twisted to the left,
11:33
Speaker 1: was he facing the shooter the muzzle of the weapon,
11:37
Speaker 1: if you will, Had he turned his back in order
11:41
Speaker 1: to run away, To try to put as much distance
11:43
Speaker 1: between himself and the shooter, and that's all critical when
11:47
Speaker 1: we're trying to assess the scene and the body in
11:51
Speaker 1: its relationship to everything else that surrounds this environment. We're
12:14
Speaker 1: talking about the execution style murders of both Maggie and
12:20
Speaker 1: Paul Murdoch in the Low Country of South Carolina. Specifically,
12:24
Speaker 1: we've been discussing what kind of damage can be expected
12:28
Speaker 1: being inflicted by the weapons that were used in this case,
12:32
Speaker 1: Jo talking about whether or not one person could have
12:35
Speaker 1: handled both weapons and been able to do this. Let's
12:38
Speaker 1: talk about the distance. How are we going to know
12:42
Speaker 1: how far away? I mean is obviously one of these
12:44
Speaker 1: weapons was a rifle, so that's a long distance weapon.
12:47
Speaker 1: The other was a shotgun, which is not necessarily a
12:50
Speaker 1: long distance weapon. Why those weapon choices for one and two?
12:57
Speaker 1: How are we going to know how far away these
12:59
Speaker 1: people were when these actions were taken. It's always been
13:02
Speaker 1: my opinion that you see people in crimes, for instance,
13:06
Speaker 1: that where a firearm is involved, they essentially use long arms,
13:11
Speaker 1: which you can classify both of these weapons, a shotgun
13:14
Speaker 1: and a rifle as long arms. That means they're shoulder
13:17
Speaker 1: fired weapons. They use these as a means to terrorize
13:22
Speaker 1: an individual, to control them with power, it's much more intimidating.
13:26
Speaker 1: I don't think any of us would like to have
13:27
Speaker 1: a pistol point os, but you can imagine to be
13:29
Speaker 1: staring down the barrel of a shotgun as opposed to
13:33
Speaker 1: some tiny little pistol that somebody has in their hand. Automatically,
13:36
Speaker 1: you have their attention, you have everybody's nitche In a
13:38
Speaker 1: matter of fact, you're walking down street one of these things,
13:41
Speaker 1: people are going to notice you. It's not like you
13:43
Speaker 1: got a pistol in your pocket. So when you look
13:47
Speaker 1: at this and you begin to think, well, why in
13:49
Speaker 1: the world would they use these heavy weapons, essentially from
13:54
Speaker 1: a civilian standpoint, on both a young man and his mother,
14:00
Speaker 1: Why would these be brought to bear? Well, you know,
14:03
Speaker 1: part of me, I think that they were the tools
14:06
Speaker 1: that were at hand for whoever the killer is in
14:09
Speaker 1: this particular case. It's what they had access to, it's
14:11
Speaker 1: what they thought that they would need to use, as
14:14
Speaker 1: opposed to just merely using a handgun. And certainly, you've
14:18
Speaker 1: got two individuals, and I just think about this a
14:20
Speaker 1: little bit. You've got two individuals that obviously have a
14:23
Speaker 1: will of their own. How are you going to control them.
14:26
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to control them through intimidation as you're
14:29
Speaker 1: maybe moving them out to this location in order to
14:32
Speaker 1: end their life. Nobody's going to go willingly, but you
14:36
Speaker 1: stick the muzzle of that weapon in their face or
14:38
Speaker 1: in their back, and you begin to kind of pride
14:41
Speaker 1: them along towards what's going to wind up being their end.
14:45
Speaker 1: You have to have you have to have that force
14:48
Speaker 1: behind it. And I'm not talking about the pulling of
14:50
Speaker 1: the trigger. I'm just talking about the intimidation factor. Now,
14:55
Speaker 1: when it gets to both of these weapons, how are
14:57
Speaker 1: we going to tell how far away the individuals were
15:01
Speaker 1: with a shotgun? Now, let's say, for instance, they're using
15:05
Speaker 1: ammunition like a buckshot for instance, And again, this is
15:09
Speaker 1: the buckshot inside these the shotgun shells. It's about I
15:13
Speaker 1: don't know, roughly thirty two calibers and that's a pistol round,
15:17
Speaker 1: but it's a it's a pellet, and there's multiple of
15:21
Speaker 1: these in here, in each one of the shells. And
15:24
Speaker 1: so as you're firing this weapon, you're sending these pellets
15:29
Speaker 1: out of the end of the barrel. But that's not
15:30
Speaker 1: the only thing coming out of the end of the barrel.
15:33
Speaker 1: You've got unburned powder. You've got actually smoke that's coming
15:38
Speaker 1: out of the end of the barrel. You've got fire.
15:41
Speaker 1: And then you've got two components which are unique to
15:44
Speaker 1: shotgun shells. You've got what's called wadding, which is kind
15:48
Speaker 1: of a fiber disc that's down in the shell and
15:51
Speaker 1: that travels out of the out of the end of
15:53
Speaker 1: the barrel. I've actually found those embedded in bodies at autopsies.
15:56
Speaker 1: And then you have something else. It's called a shotgun
16:00
Speaker 1: shell cup, and it's a cup that's made out of plastic.
16:04
Speaker 1: It's got four little petals, just like a flower, if
16:07
Speaker 1: you can imagine that, and the shed the projectiles themselfs
16:11
Speaker 1: are contained within this little cup. And when you fire
16:14
Speaker 1: that shotgun shell and that those pellets come out of
16:18
Speaker 1: the end of the barrel, that wadding comes out, which
16:20
Speaker 1: is a little you know, almost it looks like a
16:22
Speaker 1: felt disc. But you've got this cup that comes out
16:25
Speaker 1: and it deploys in the air. These little wings, these
16:28
Speaker 1: little petals spread and there's four of them, and you know,
16:30
Speaker 1: if you're close enough to the body, you get a presentation.
16:34
Speaker 1: It's a contusion that comes up on the body. It's
16:36
Speaker 1: called cup slap, and it's very unique. It looks like
16:40
Speaker 1: a huge hand has come down and driven fingers into
16:44
Speaker 1: the body. Now, if you're outside of a range of
16:50
Speaker 1: i don't know, over about seven to eight feet with
16:53
Speaker 1: one of these shotgun shells, that cup is just going
16:56
Speaker 1: to fly away. But if you're closer than that, if
16:58
Speaker 1: you're closer than that, there's a high probability that that
17:02
Speaker 1: cup is going to strike the body. So what do
17:04
Speaker 1: we know is forensic scientists, Well, we know if we
17:06
Speaker 1: have cup slap that kind of overlies the holes that
17:11
Speaker 1: the projectiles created. We know that we're talking about a
17:15
Speaker 1: very specific distance or range of fire when it comes
17:19
Speaker 1: to placing the shooter in relation to the decedent. Is
17:24
Speaker 1: that something you've got to worry about with the rifle
17:27
Speaker 1: as well? You know, the rifle is significantly different than
17:31
Speaker 1: than than the shotgun. First off, you can tell just
17:35
Speaker 1: in the name Jackie. You know, the name rifle, it
17:38
Speaker 1: actually implies that you're talking about a rifled barrel. And
17:42
Speaker 1: just so y'all understand, that means that the barrel actually
17:45
Speaker 1: has grooves in the barrel. It twists in one direction
17:50
Speaker 1: either to the left or the right, and it's very specific.
17:53
Speaker 1: It actually leaves marks on the on the sides of
17:56
Speaker 1: the bullet, and that's one of the ways that we
17:58
Speaker 1: identify the bullet to match it up to a weapon.
18:00
Speaker 1: But when it comes to a range of fire, rifle,
18:03
Speaker 1: the rifle is highly accurate. It's very very powerful. So
18:08
Speaker 1: compared to the shygun, the rifle has a higher muscle velocity,
18:12
Speaker 1: which essentially means that the rate at which the projectile
18:17
Speaker 1: travels out of the end of that barrel is what
18:21
Speaker 1: we refer to as supersonic. That means it's above the
18:25
Speaker 1: speed of sound at that point in time. So it
18:28
Speaker 1: gives you kind of an idea. You know, we have
18:30
Speaker 1: that large crack that you hear when a rifle is fired. Now,
18:34
Speaker 1: one thing that does come out of the end of
18:36
Speaker 1: the barrel of a rifle other than that projectile that
18:39
Speaker 1: just kind of slams into the body, is also going
18:43
Speaker 1: to be unburned powder. Now this is significant because depended
18:48
Speaker 1: upon the spread of that powder and how widely it
18:53
Speaker 1: has spread, gives you an idea as to the range
18:57
Speaker 1: of fire. So just think about this. If you're looking
19:01
Speaker 1: at a rifle or a handgun and handguns are rifled
19:05
Speaker 1: as well. After about thirty six inches, the powder is
19:10
Speaker 1: just going to kind of drift away because it's not
19:12
Speaker 1: very ara dynamic. Because that bullet is spinning and it's
19:16
Speaker 1: staying right on target, it's going to drive right into
19:19
Speaker 1: the target. So if we're within about thirty six inches
19:23
Speaker 1: of that body, guess what's going to happen. Hot gas
19:26
Speaker 1: is going to come out of the end of that muzzle.
19:28
Speaker 1: It's going to sear the wound. Potentially, we're also going
19:32
Speaker 1: to get powder, unburned powder embedded into the surface surrounding
19:39
Speaker 1: the wound. And one more thing, we're going to get
19:42
Speaker 1: something that's referred to many times as bullet wipe, and
19:45
Speaker 1: bullet wipe is the grease that actually comes you know,
19:48
Speaker 1: when bullets are fitted in to a cartridge, they're actually
19:51
Speaker 1: kind of greased up so that they will fit in
19:53
Speaker 1: and then it's crimped. You'll actually get what's called bullet wipe,
19:57
Speaker 1: where you'll see this kind of black material that's surrounding
20:02
Speaker 1: the wound itself. And this gives us an idea as
20:05
Speaker 1: to the range of fire with a rifle. Joe, just
20:08
Speaker 1: in listening to your details about the positioning of the body,
20:11
Speaker 1: the type of ammunition that could be used, the distance,
20:15
Speaker 1: there are so many things there. You're looking at a
20:19
Speaker 1: crime scene that's going to take a tremendous amount of
20:22
Speaker 1: time to process. Oh my gosh, you know hours. You know,
20:27
Speaker 1: it's one thing. And again, you know, I think folks
20:30
Speaker 1: can understand this pretty easily. I know if I can
20:34
Speaker 1: understand it, y'all can. The more bodies you have, the
20:38
Speaker 1: more evidence you're going to have, and the more time
20:40
Speaker 1: that's going to have to be expended when sled that's
20:44
Speaker 1: the state Police in South Carolina showed up. They had
20:47
Speaker 1: to bring full force out there relative to their forensics
20:51
Speaker 1: people to work the scene. And the way way we
20:54
Speaker 1: do this if we have multiple bodies that are seen.
20:56
Speaker 1: I've worked a lot of homicides where I have a
21:00
Speaker 1: mass shooting. Okay, you don't have one investigator that's essentially
21:04
Speaker 1: working every individual person. Well why is that? Well, because
21:08
Speaker 1: you're going to miss details, and trust me, in a
21:10
Speaker 1: case like this, there are a ton of details. So
21:13
Speaker 1: what will happen is that you will have a team
21:16
Speaker 1: of investigators that essentially will work these bodies individually and
21:20
Speaker 1: then they'll compile their reports. But you know, when you
21:23
Speaker 1: begin to think about it, what do you have to
21:25
Speaker 1: recover at the scene relative to this shooting. You've got
21:28
Speaker 1: if these were semi automatic weapons that were being fired,
21:31
Speaker 1: that means you've got ejected shell casings. That's the spent casings,
21:36
Speaker 1: and you have to consider those as to where they
21:39
Speaker 1: were ejected to was a person moving around a lot
21:43
Speaker 1: when they're firing this weapon. So you've got spent brass
21:46
Speaker 1: as it's called, all over the place, or spent shotgun
21:50
Speaker 1: hulls or shells all over the place, and that gives
21:53
Speaker 1: you an indication that not only were the victims may
21:55
Speaker 1: be moving, but the shooter was moving, kind of migrating
21:59
Speaker 1: around the body, if you will. So you have to
22:02
Speaker 1: take all of that into account, and then you have
22:05
Speaker 1: to compare where these two shootings took place and try
22:09
Speaker 1: to get a measurement for the distance apart that all
22:11
Speaker 1: of these shotgun shells are dispersed over and one of
22:16
Speaker 1: the other reasons that it's so complicated. I'm still not
22:18
Speaker 1: convinced that they were absolutely shot at this location. We're
22:42
Speaker 1: talking about the brutal execution of a mother and her son.
22:48
Speaker 1: We were just discussing the nature of a crime scene
22:52
Speaker 1: and how layered this is when you not just have
22:54
Speaker 1: one body, but you have two bodies, and not just
22:57
Speaker 1: one weapon, but two weapons. Joe, you just brought up
23:01
Speaker 1: a really good point about the location of the bodies
23:05
Speaker 1: and whether or not Paul and Maggie Myrtle were killed
23:10
Speaker 1: at this location. We don't know that. So number one,
23:14
Speaker 1: how will we know if they were killed at this
23:18
Speaker 1: location or how will we know how the bodies got
23:23
Speaker 1: to this location if they weren't killed on the property.
23:27
Speaker 1: We cannot assume anything when it comes to a case
23:31
Speaker 1: involving a double homicide. And you know, at this point,
23:35
Speaker 1: we cannot even assume that both Maggie and Paul were
23:39
Speaker 1: killed specifically at this location because you know, the information
23:43
Speaker 1: has not been completely revealed at this time. I think
23:49
Speaker 1: that one of the questions we have to ask is
23:51
Speaker 1: where their bodies were found, where they were situated in
23:54
Speaker 1: this particular case, is that actually where they died. Were
24:00
Speaker 1: they shot in another location perhaps and then brought to
24:04
Speaker 1: the location where Alec eventually found them, you know, And
24:08
Speaker 1: that that has puzzled me relative to this case, you know,
24:11
Speaker 1: because there were a couple of vehicles out of the scene,
24:14
Speaker 1: you know, as an investigator. One of the questions I
24:16
Speaker 1: want to ask is, well, is there any indication that
24:21
Speaker 1: maybe they have been transported to that location their their
24:26
Speaker 1: deceased bodies were taken out there, or were the vehicles
24:30
Speaker 1: used to convey them there, you know, at gunpoint, or
24:35
Speaker 1: were they summoned there? Were they summoned there to meet
24:38
Speaker 1: specifically at that location to meet someone who would have
24:42
Speaker 1: access to that property. You know, essentially what it comes
24:44
Speaker 1: down to is how did they arrive at their end,
24:48
Speaker 1: if you will, And that's a big question. So when
24:51
Speaker 1: you're you're thinking about this, you have to think, well,
24:54
Speaker 1: if if they were not shot there then and shot
24:58
Speaker 1: somewhere else on the property, did someone physically pick the
25:01
Speaker 1: bodies up, place them there and lay them in these
25:04
Speaker 1: positions where they drug Well, if they were drug to
25:08
Speaker 1: those locations, guess where we're gonna have. We might have
25:11
Speaker 1: bloody drag marks that lead back through the grass there.
25:17
Speaker 1: Maybe they were shot against a building somewhere and there's
25:19
Speaker 1: there's actually blood staining on a wall somewhere. But you know,
25:24
Speaker 1: when we think about where they picked up and carried
25:29
Speaker 1: after they were injured, you know what that means. That
25:32
Speaker 1: means that whoever carried them, because the scene would have
25:35
Speaker 1: been a bloody mess. We would be dealing with something
25:38
Speaker 1: that's called blood transfer, and essentially all that means is
25:44
Speaker 1: that the blood from these bodies would have transferred onto
25:48
Speaker 1: the individuals that were carrying that. That means that they
25:50
Speaker 1: would have just been covered in blood. You know, specifically,
25:54
Speaker 1: you think about a shotgun wound, they're grotesque. You're going
25:57
Speaker 1: to have a tissue that's blown up heart. Individuals would
26:01
Speaker 1: be stained, that would be touching the bodies, and you
26:05
Speaker 1: would you would absolutely have to take your clothes off
26:08
Speaker 1: and burn them to you know, get rid of any
26:11
Speaker 1: kind of evidence that you might find on clothing, and
26:14
Speaker 1: you would certainly have to bathe yourself very well afterwards.
26:18
Speaker 1: And you go back to the vehicles, Well, if they
26:20
Speaker 1: were transported in a vehicle after they had been shot,
26:24
Speaker 1: there would be blood staining that was left within that vehicle,
26:28
Speaker 1: and again that's transfer a blood. If they're shot in
26:31
Speaker 1: a vehicle, you're going to have more of a dynamic
26:34
Speaker 1: event in there where you have high, high velocity blood
26:37
Speaker 1: staining that'll be on the interior of the car. So
26:41
Speaker 1: we have a lot of unanswered questions. But you know,
26:44
Speaker 1: the great thing about forensic science is that if you
26:48
Speaker 1: have someone that's not necessarily telling you the truth, the
26:52
Speaker 1: science is going the science is going to actually reveal
26:56
Speaker 1: what the truth is because the numbers don't lie. Relative
27:00
Speaker 1: to this in this case is actually going to come
27:03
Speaker 1: down to that. It's going to come down to attempting
27:07
Speaker 1: to assess the bodies. Okay, which has been done at
27:11
Speaker 1: the autopsy, and it's going to be done in order
27:15
Speaker 1: to assess all of the evidence that surrounds us bodies.
27:18
Speaker 1: Sink back to what to what we were talking about.
27:21
Speaker 1: The bodies are the hub. They are the hub of
27:24
Speaker 1: the wagon wheel, and everything else radiates out from them.
27:29
Speaker 1: And then eventually it's all going to be tied back
27:31
Speaker 1: together because when they do in fact catch whoever it
27:34
Speaker 1: was that perpetrated these crimes, and this is two crimes,
27:39
Speaker 1: this is two separate homicides. You're talking about the ending
27:42
Speaker 1: the brutal killing of these two individuals. Folks are going
27:46
Speaker 1: to be charged and they're gonna be prosecuted. And it
27:49
Speaker 1: is key that all of this information, all of the
27:51
Speaker 1: forensic science that's involved in this case, be tied up
27:54
Speaker 1: in a neat little package so that the people on
27:56
Speaker 1: the jury can understand it because this is a highly
28:00
Speaker 1: highly complex case. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this its
28:07
Speaker 1: body backs