Latest / We Got Next / WNBA season kicks off, WNBA team valuations show players’ investments, Natasha Cloud finds a team!

Transcript

WNBA season kicks off, WNBA team valuations show players’ investments, Natasha Cloud finds a team! · We Got Next

• 0:03
  Michelle: Welcome, buenvenidos to We Got Next, a podcast for fans by fans, where we center athletes who identify as women, fems, and thems, and who are changing the game on and off the court, the field, the pitch, the pool, and more.
• 0:20
  Filiberto: Hey, Michelle.
• 0:20
  Michelle: What's up?
• 0:21
  Filiberto: What are you drinking tonight?
• 0:25
  Michelle: We're we're celebrating a few things. I've been at my current day job for a year today. So yay. And the WNBA season is starting. Regular season tomorrow.
• 0:40
  Boom.
• 0:40
  Filiberto: We actually had that sound effect, but it's a little overwhelming.
• 0:43
  Michelle: Yeah. Please don't do it.
• 0:44
  Filiberto: Well, I didn't say I was. I don't like the accusation.
• 0:48
  Michelle: So we we we cracked open a bottle of a winery in Sonoma that we are actually club members at. They it's a great story about people who used to work and harvest the grapes. And now they are owners of a winery, so it's it's awesome.
• 1:08
  Filiberto: Mexican folk from Michoacan. Mhmm. For all you big Michoacan fans.
• 1:13
  Michelle: Over in Sonoma. So they have a this is, I believe, the 2011 Cabernet Sauvignon.
• 1:19
  Filiberto: It is. It's their big cab.
• 1:21
  Michelle: Yeah. Lots of got some notes of chocolate, and I think you said leather.
• 1:25
  Filiberto: I got I got some leather in there. Yeah. We get fancy on this podcast.
• 1:29
  Michelle: It's very plummy. Yeah. It's nice. Little little you know, there's sediment in it, which is not my favorite part of wine drinking, but that's okay.
• 1:37
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 1:38
  Michelle: But it's good. So, yeah, cheers to the season starting.
• 1:42
  Filiberto: Yes. And we'll talk more about that in a second.
• 1:45
  Michelle: We're actually gonna clink. Okay?
• 1:47
  Filiberto: Clink. You may not have heard that. You probably didn't hear that. So take us around the world, Michelle. What's in the news this week?
• 1:55
  Michelle: I mean, there's a lot of stuff, but just kinda we don't focus on. So we do have the professional women's hockey league is in the middle of or their first round of playoffs. When I looked at the standings yesterday, it was kinda pretty even. It was like, they only had their first game or so played. So no one's like really standing out so far.
• 2:19
  But super competitive, one's gone to overtime. A few fights. I think someone got fined for some of their activity in the game. But that's super fun to kinda be in the middle of as we start another league season.
• 2:38
  Filiberto: And did we ever figure out why the Valkyries have so fewer preseason games than everybody else?
• 2:44
  Michelle: Not that I found out.
• 2:45
  Filiberto: Okay.
• 2:45
  Michelle: So yeah. So the Valkyries only had one preseason game.
• 2:48
  Filiberto: Right.
• 2:48
  Michelle: That was a home game in San Francisco.
• 2:51
  Filiberto: That we went to. We talked about it last week.
• 2:53
  Michelle: But I think, yeah, most teams have at least two. And a few have had three
• 2:59
  Filiberto: Right.
• 2:59
  Michelle: Including friendlies with, like, Nigeria and I think wasn't there another yeah. Japan. Japan. Japan and Nigeria. We did get to see one of the Valkyrie's drafts. That's probably like a draft in Stash for this year.
• 3:13
  Filiberto: Tanaka will not be playing with us this season.
• 3:16
  Michelle: She was playing with the the Japanese national team that played against a few teams. But It was weird. We only had one.
• 3:23
  Kinda weird. So it's like a lot of, like, waiting and seeing between games. Pre their preseason and their home their opener tomorrow.
• 3:30
  Filiberto: If anyone knows why, just add it in the podcast notes or the comments section, I suppose.
• 3:35
  Michelle: Yeah. On Instagram.
• 3:36
  Filiberto: Yes.
• 3:39
  Michelle: We got Next Pod. Is it no. No. No. It's pod we got next.
• 3:43
  Yes. That's our handle on Instagram. I keep confusing them.
• 3:46
  Filiberto: We got nextpod.org is the Website
• 3:48
  Michelle: PodWeGotNext is the Instagram. Yeah. I think some big news this week was the WNBA team valuations came out. So there's two organizations. You got Sportico and then CNBC released them this week.
• 4:03
  I will say, I know they they're independent and it's like a different scene. It's not like it's the WNBA releasing these team valuations. But I do call in a suspicion the timing of it. Because this does come after bargaining.
• 4:16
  Just like when the league announced their big media expansion deal was like literally like three or four days after they got a tentative agreement. Was like, oh, all this money you're gonna be getting from these these, this media rights deal and you just kinda kept that in your pocket until after bargaining.
• 4:32
  Filiberto: Right. And they can deny they're uncomfortable with the profitability or it's not profitable, but they can't deny these valuations. Yeah. Absolutely. Wild.
• 4:40
  Michelle: Like last year's was phenomenal and like surprised a lot of people. But this year's, it's like it's keeping the momentum. And a lot of people are like, okay, that's a fluke. You do one year. But this just proves how much the sport is growing.
• 4:54
  So for those of you who didn't see those top lines, the Valkyries came in first under both of those. So Sportico had Golden State Valkyries, their valuation at $850,000,000. That's what the team is worth. Taking into consideration, like, all their costs, all their revenues, that kind of stuff. And then And
• 5:15
  Filiberto: last year, it was worth about do you remember? Like, 550 or 600. It is a substantial increase.
• 5:22
  Michelle: In that ballpark. Yes. In one year.
• 5:23
  Filiberto: Absolutely. It's just I'll look at it while you're talking.
• 5:26
  Michelle: And then so we had Sportico is at $850,000,000 for Golden State, number one ranked. And then CNBC released those. And the Valkyries were on top as well at $1,000,000,000. So this is I'm not sure why they're different. I I did see that the CNBC valuations did include Toronto and Portland, whereas Sportico didn't.
• 5:51
  I don't know that why would that would affect this $150,000,000 delta. But it is the first billion dollar valuation for a WNBA team.
• 6:02
  Filiberto: And even if they technically didn't hit it this year because of whatever calculations they're using for sure next year or Yeah. Yeah. Shortly thereafter. Yeah. So in last year, they were the Valkyries were valued at half 1,000,000 half $1,000,000,000, so 500,000,000.
• 6:18
  Michelle: Mhmm.
• 6:19
  Filiberto: And and, Lacob bought the team for 50,000,000,000. Yeah. Or you paid a $50,000,000.
• 6:24
  Michelle: That was the expansion fee. But I think like
• 6:26
  Filiberto: Expansion fee.
• 6:26
  Michelle: I think his total was like $200,000,000 or $250,000,000. So he's already made He's pretty good. By the way, that 5 that $50,000,000 expansion fee that everyone's complaining about, that's phased over ten years. So he's actually only paying 5,000,000 a year for an expansion fee right now. So, yeah, Golden State is raking in the cash.
• 6:47
  Filiberto: And again, it doesn't matter if they're not profitable, which they have been when your evaluations are this high.
• 6:52
  Michelle: Yeah. And I and I wanna say looking at the other teams that are listed, and we'll put links to this in the show notes. When you look at some of teams that are kind of like maybe closer to the bottom and then like looking at some of their top, I think like one thing that stands out to me is the teams that have the larger arenas where they can actually fit 18,000 people, seventeen, sixteen thousand. They're the ones that are kind of showing that growth and they're kinda coming in a little bit higher because yeah, you're selling your season tickets, you're selling your single game tickets, and then you have all your concessions. And then you're selling swag as well.
• 7:27
  You're selling jerseys and t shirts. Right? And so, like, the more people they
• 7:30
  Filiberto: A playoff bonus get in too. At least for the Valkyrie's case, they probably got a playoff bonus.
• 7:34
  Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. I would that's what other leagues do. I hope
• 7:37
  Filiberto: At least on the media side, but they for sure Yeah. Got a bonus just operating another game.
• 7:41
  Michelle: Yeah. And then when you look at some of the ones that are at the bottom, Atlanta, I think there's they're still playing in, like I I I'd have to look it up. But I think their arena only fits like not even 7,000. So it's like, yeah, you're kinda behind the game. I think they're gonna move them eventually to where their m NBA counterparts play.
• 8:04
  So that'll be exciting for them, especially now they have Angel Reese. They really need to be able to pull the fans in.
• 8:09
  Filiberto: 5,000 seater venue.
• 8:11
  Michelle: 5,000? Yeah.
• 8:13
  Filiberto: So no shit they can't bring the revenue.
• 8:15
  Michelle: Yeah. So that's why they're kinda they're starting from further behind.
• 8:18
  Filiberto: Well, different different and this is also another part of the equity different than male leagues that generate like, Lakers generate, like, a 250, $300,000,000 a year. The Dodgers are up there in terms of their media rights deals. Like, in a lot of ways, they don't even that they're really charged ticket prices. But the Valkyries, because the media rights deals aren't quite there yet, they still depend on ticket revenue for the overall revenue.
• 8:41
  Michelle: Yeah. I mean and just to kind of prove that point in the CNBC valuations, Atlanta came in almost last. Toronto's only the only team below them. But there so this is CNBC again is saying that Atlanta's valuation is 330,000,000 kind of. So yeah, that's very different than 1,000,000,000.
• 9:04
  So a lot of that's gonna be just being able to get more people in the door and tickets sell out quickly. Right? Being So able to fit more people in there and build that energy and that momentum and that fandom is gonna be important. I wanna take advantage of having someone like Angel Reese and and some of the other amazing players they have.
• 9:27
  Filiberto: Very marketable, very entertaining. Just they're they're also just brilliant in how they manage their own brands individually too.
• 9:34
  Michelle: Yeah. So the CNBC had Atlanta at $330,000,000 and Sportico had Atlanta at $280,000,000. So there's definitely like a a big range in these. And I I haven't been able to kind of find out what the difference is between these two. But I I believe the revenue numbers they have for each are pretty spot on.
• 9:56
  I think those are reported. Mhmm. So yeah. So, again, according to CNBC, having the Valkyries at 1,000,000,000 and their revenues at 78,000,000 from last year.
• 10:07
  Filiberto: So, yeah, even though they're a new team, they're playing in the biggest arena now in the WNBA, and they're selling every game out. Yeah. So, yeah, that revenue is coming in strong. And all the associated endorsement deals and whatever else.
• 10:18
  Michelle: Yeah. And just for perspective, so 78,000,000 revenue last year, their first year, and then the New York Liberty are the team that came in second with 43,000,000. So that's that's a huge delta between first and second. Mhmm. So it's great.
• 10:30
  And then the other again, we'll put this in show notes. But the other interesting piece was the there's also this statistics they use, which is value to revenue for the different sports, the different leagues. And for the first time, the WNBA has come above the, you know, the MNBA. So the average value to revenue multiple is 13.6 for the W and it's 13.5 for the the men. And then you have NFL coming in at 10.3.
• 11:06
  I can't see. I think that's women's soccer is is fourth at 9.8.
• 11:10
  Filiberto: NWSL, yeah.
• 11:11
  Michelle: And then men's soccer 9.2. NHL eight point four. Is that F1 ? Yeah. 7.6.
• 11:20
  Your sister will be happy. Baseball 7.2 and something
• 11:25
  Filiberto: Random soccer logo. Oh, represent the world's 32 most valuable non MLS soccer clubs.
• 11:30
  Michelle: Okay. So the other kind of international soccer clubs at 4.9 . We'll put that link to that graphic there. But yeah. No, it's good news, it's also don't cry poor to me because And also, this is more than just one specific player in the WNBA raising all tides for all boats.
• 11:49
  This is a lot of women's blood, sweat, and tears that have gone into building this league, particularly black women that have gone into building this league over the last thirty years. And we're finally seeing some of the dividends, some of that growth, some of that wealth that they're generating that with the new CBA, teams will be sharing a little bit more of with the players.
• 12:12
  Filiberto: Well, and just kinda what like, we were talking about last week when I was talking about, like, billionaires and things, the players are what generate generate this revenue. Mhmm. Billionaires aren't doing anything but agreeing to these massive profit enterprises. And I think one of the things to always remember is that most professional leagues have antitrust protections. They are legal monopolies.
• 12:34
  Michelle: Right.
• 12:35
  Filiberto: Legal monopolies. So, again, even if even if they claim they lost, like, 10,000,000 last year, it doesn't matter if value goes up that high again on the backs of the women that are giving their all to this game. Mhmm. And they're not getting a piece of that. So that's why these negotiations are so important.
• 12:50
  Michelle: Yep. Yeah. So if you missed last week, the the end of the the podcast, Fili did a great breakdown of why we should not necessarily celebrate some of these evil billionaires out there, including some of the WNBA owners.
• 13:05
  Filiberto: Yeah. So they're even evil. Right? They're just mediocre white dudes. Just mediocre white dudes.
• 13:09
  They're fallible. They're human. We can organize against them. We just gotta want to
• 13:14
  Michelle: Their cruelty is definitely evil.
• 13:15
  Filiberto: Their cruelty is definitely evil. The things that they do, the things that they justify.
• 13:19
  Michelle: Yeah. Also big news, Natasha Cloud has found a team. She did sign with the Chicago Sky. It was kind of a little weird. It looks like they waived Hailey Van Lith for Natasha.
• 13:37
  I mean, I think they're both great players. But I think Natasha brings like this really great veteran presence. She had a phenomenal season with the Liberty last year. She did great in Unrivaled. So I was actually surprised to see her kind of waiting so long, like, into training camp after training camp before a team picked her up.
• 13:56
  And and we can talk about this later in the episode about some questions of whether or not her activism kinda calling out the genocide that's happening in Gaza right now affected that. But just really glad that she found a place. She should she should absolutely be there. And she's one of those women that we talk about that built this league, and she needs to enjoy those spoils, those riches, and get a contract and get paid this year under that new CBA salary schedule and the other benefits that the players negotiate. So I'm I'm glad to see that she'll be doing that.
• 14:33
  Filiberto: Yeah. Natasha, to me, just watching her play last year so aside from what you mentioned, and we'll talk more about that, her advocacy for the recognition that genocide exists in Gaza, she just she's a champion. She's been on championship teams. She brings so much energy and vitality to the court. Like, you just can't ignore her presence on the court. And you need people like that.
• 14:55
  Michelle: And she's a great ball handler.
• 14:56
  Filiberto: Everyone should have been yeah. She's a great ball handler. She's a great scorer. Just a good hard nosed defender. Like, that should be a piece that everyone wants to sign.
• 15:03
  So, again, this is where the suspicion comes from.
• 15:05
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 15:05
  Filiberto: Why would you not wanna sign her? But great for her. So the you know, she's she's approaching the end of her career, so good for her for getting that payday.
• 15:12
  Just keep it coming.
• 15:13
  Michelle: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 15:20
  As we're gearing up for the Olympics, that will be in LA in 2028. And some of the fear mongering and homophobia and transphobia coming out of the White House. A lot of different sports are instituting bans on trans athletes, specifically trans women athletes.
• 15:43
  Let's be clear about that. There have not been any trans men bans. So just like another way that people are trying to police women's bodies. It's been happening for eons and centuries. But do you want to talk a little bit about kind of the organizing that's happening for USA Rugby?
• 16:02
  Filiberto: Yeah. I think it's what's I think what really compels me about just following and watching women's sports is the advocacy and the sort of integrity and the values that are behind that. And so the USA Rugby tried to institute a trans exclusion, just sort of policy. And there was just immediate outrage, not just and not just to give the fans credit too. The fans were also outraged and supported the players in trying to fight against this, trying to reverse this.
• 16:30
  So it's one of the things that we'll definitely keep an eye on as we move forward toward throughout the WNBA season. But it reminded me too that back in the day, there was a women's trans athlete that was trying to compete in USA Powerlifting in Minnesota. And a lot of my friends who were also weightlifters and powerlifters at the time, I went with them and I was volunteering and helping out. And they USA Powerlifting in 2019 just made up a policy that trans women cannot compete once JayCee tried to compete. And they only found out about it she only found out about it shortly before the competition.
• 17:04
  So that's why we knew ahead of time to show up. And so in solidarity with JayCee, the the women that I knew that were they were, like, Minnesota's best. They were competing not just to show up and come and just lift the bar, but they were looking to set, like, records. Right? That wasn't this wasn't casual.
• 17:21
  But in protest to JayCee's exclusion, they just ran out their clock, So they didn't actually perform a lift, and they all sequentially did that. And it was a really powerful
• 17:31
  Michelle: That's resistance. Right? Yeah.
• 17:32
  Filiberto: And so it's been a long struggle, but JayCee recently won their lawsuit against USA Powerlifting is gonna get that settlement money. Nice. So the discrimination case will have both links in the show notes. So just like Michelle was sort of framing this as a culture war thing, this has been going on for a long time. This definitely predates Trump.
• 17:52
  But I think it's a scary time to resist because resistance itself just begets the sort of state and retaliation and makes you a target. But y'all like, it's been really powerful to see the different sorts of resistance that's happening. And I know I know I talked to JayCee a little bit during that period. I know they were anxious and nervous about being out there. You know, I know it isn't easy, but just know that we really care about what y'all are doing.
• 18:23
  Keep it up because it's pretty powerful and pretty amazing. Yeah. Gives you hope, you know?
• 18:28
  That's right.
• 18:28
  It's hard times.
• 18:29
  Michelle: There's different ...
• 18:30
  Filiberto: Hope it's not easy to come by these days.
• 18:31
  Michelle: There's different types of resistance. Right? So like, you know, the rugby group decided, oh, we'll have this open category for people. And so now some of the supporters are like, let's all just sign up for open.
• 18:44
  Filiberto: Boom.
• 18:46
  Michelle: Because we can't have an open category if we only have a few trans people. There's no competition. There's no and the powers that be knew that. Right? So everyone's like, okay.
• 18:56
  Okay. Then we're all gonna go over there. So there is competition. There's enough players that we can actually play and do the same damn thing we were doing anyways. And it's not gonna hurt anyone and we'll all be great.
• 19:06
  So, no just finding creative ways to like still be in community and still kind of get your way and work around these, like, really shortsighted, simplistic, dumbassery.
• 19:18
  Filiberto: And I think I think the other thing too is when you show up for other people, you're really showing up for yourself too. Like, this isn't, you know, altruistic. This isn't without some sort of self interest, but just showing up for the people means you're showing up for you, man. You're showing up for your values and your principles. And that just that's immeasurable.
• 19:40
  That's immeasurable.
• 19:41
  Michelle: Well, I mean, people forget too, like, when you dehumanize others, you dehumanize yourself. Right? Like, being trying to exclude queer or trans people. Like, when you're actively involved in that, you're just breaking down who you are as a human being and walking away from that. So that's something
• 20:01
  Filiberto: your.... I think in those moments, people like when people abandon themselves, I you know, you think you're getting by and you're surviving the moment, and absolutely, in some cases, you kinda have to. But it just really erodes. It erodes that inner spirit that we have, and that's what we need to really fight these things. Yeah. So, yeah, just keep each other up.
• 20:20
  Let's do it.
• 20:21
  Michelle: Well, I think this is another opportunity to kind of plug
• 20:25
  kind of like a commentary that Breonna Turner wrote a couple months back. Actually, April. So one month back. We'll put the link in the show notes, but it was a commentary that appeared in USA Today. And I think Turner signed with Las Vegas Aces for the season.
• 20:47
  But she kind of said not in my name. Like don't do these exclusionary, horrific policies claiming that you're protecting women's sports. You're not doing that for me. You're not doing that in my name. And I think like one of the more kind of powerful parts of it.
• 21:06
  And I and again, if people if you if you need kinda something to help you put together some talking points for kinda communicating with family or friends, and you're kinda like, you know what's wrong, but you kinda wanna be able to have some kinda counters to people's arguments about this, I would definitely read it. It really helps kind of like add that context, add that narrative. But one of like the paragraphs in there that is just really sums up what this is about for the people who want to exclude. Brianna writes, "policies that single out transgender women and athletes with intersex variations do not protect women's sports. They manufacture a scapegoat while the real challenges to women's sports go unaddressed.
• 21:57
  Unequal funding, limited access to training and facilities, pay disparities, male dominated leadership." I'm gonna underline that one. "Gender based violence and harassment across race, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity."
• 22:16
  So yeah, this is just a red herring. This is a way to distract people from the real issues that need address the need addressing for women's for women athletes.
• 22:25
  And they're trying to create this culture war and distract people, shake the keys over here from the real issues that they need to be finding solutions for. They're creating problems that don't exist.
• 22:38
  Filiberto: Yeah. And I think one of the really, like the commentaries that really hit me hard was the idea that a lot of the response to trying to police women's bodies by policing trans women's bodies means that you're creating a regime of intrusion that is designed to examine a body without sufficient consent, controls, protections for these bodies, for women that are being exposed to this. And I think a lot of those are being pushed by pedophiles. They want to have access to women's bodies without any sort of restriction. So I think that's something to look out for.
• 23:13
  That's why and again, this is the commentary that we've seen. I'll try to look for a nice little video for the show notes that we've been checking out. But that's a greater part of my concern too. And I think in general, just and we'll move on to talk about the Valkyries. That's what this podcast is about.
• 23:30
  I think we're, you know, Michelle and I are both cisgender folk, a man and a woman. And I think this is what we're trying to sort of model what we think a good ally is. Like whenever there's an issue for trans folk, it's not the best thing to do to go after your friend that's trans and be like, hey, give me an article about this, I understand or something like that. Or can you explain this to me? Like, it's really up to us to sort of seek our own information, to have the curiosity and then challenge each other to make sure that we're getting the best information.
• 23:59
  That's how, you know, that's how we're trying to be good allies to our trans and queer siblings.
• 24:05
  Michelle: Yeah. Allies slash co-conspirators.
• 24:08
  Filiberto: Yes, indeed.
• 24:16
  Michelle: Golden State Valkyrie's excited about their kickoff tomorrow, Friday evening. It's probably they're gonna be playing Seattle. So a lot of, like, connectedness between Seattle, between last season. We were both fighting for a playoff spot.
• 24:31
  Filiberto: We were, like, all in the middle pack area. People just, you know, not even fighting for a playoff spot for positioning. Right?
• 24:37
  Michelle: Yes. And I I would argue kinda like lower middle of the pack. But
• 24:41
  Filiberto: Either way.
• 24:42
  Michelle: Yeah. We could have had a six seed, but we end up with an eight seed. That's okay.
• 24:45
  Filiberto: Everyone was real tight. Yeah. It was impressive.
• 24:47
  Michelle: It was. And also just, you know, some trading of draft picks last month. So and they played there preseason game. The one preseason game the Valkyries did play was at home versus Seattle. So it'll be a great game tomorrow night.
• 25:06
  Hopefully everyone's watching. But if you, news of notes this week, is a lot of teams did, they had to narrow down their rosters by 2PM today. We're recording this on May 7. I'm not quite clear if they're if like what the limit was, if it was 12 person rosters. Most teams are putting out a list of 13 even though they've got that 14 spot for a developmental player.
• 25:33
  I'm confused. So they have to have 12 and then you got two developmental spots. So maybe people are gonna wait until
• 25:40
  Filiberto: So there's
• 25:40
  Michelle: people clear waivers and fill that last spot.
• 25:43
  Filiberto: Yeah. Think that's part of it. And then the other factor is if you have an injured player or a player on the suspended list, that's gonna throw off your roster numbers.
• 25:51
  Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see what kind of that looks like the next couple of days. But people did kind of solidify the teams have been putting out on social media who their starting day rosters are gonna be. So leading up to that, Golden State did waive Marta Suarez who and that kind of surprised a few people.
• 26:14
  Filiberto: A lot of big feelings in the commentary verse about it.
• 26:18
  Michelle: Yes. And just to remind people quickly, Marta Suarez played for TCU last year. She was the, Valkyries chose her it was a first round pick. No. No.
• 26:32
  Sorry. Sorry. Seattle chose Marta.
• 26:35
  Filiberto: In the second round.
• 26:37
  Michelle: First pick of the second round, I believe.
• 26:39
  Filiberto: Yeah. Something like that.
• 26:40
  Michelle: Golden State had like an eighth pick in the first round, chose Flau'jae Johnson. But when they chose her, they knew they were gonna trade because they'd already made a deal with Seattle to trade whoever they picked, but just to trade those spots. And so they made a deal that Valkyries would choose Flau'jae and Seattle would choose Marta and they would swap them.
• 27:00
  Filiberto: And the Valkyries got a second round pick for the following year.
• 27:02
  Michelle: For next year as part of that deal.
• 27:05
  Filiberto: In '27.
• 27:05
  Michelle: So it was kinda surprising to people that they waived Marta. And part of that might be they were hoping once you clear if a if a player clears waivers, you can resign them as that one of those developmental roster spots, which don't, that salary is much lower than, you know, the roster of 12.
• 27:27
  Filiberto: There's limitations on how much they can play.
• 27:29
  Michelle: Yeah. They can only play 12 games throughout the season. But it was kind of a way that the league and the Players Association kinda compromised on expanding rosters during their collective bargaining agreement. But Marta did not clear waivers, as people are not surprised by, but she was signed by Phoenix. Also, Ashlon Jackson who was a draft pick this year out of Duke.
• 27:58
  She did not clear waivers either. She was picked up by the Connecticut Sun. So super excited they're gonna get some playing time.
• 28:08
  And then the other big news for the Valkyries, they and then we talked about this last week how a lot of people were watching the Valkyries and all the people they invited to training camp and were like, this is gonna be one of the hardest rosters to crack to find a place for. So I think a lot of people knew that
• 28:25
  Filiberto: Both for returning and invitees to training camp.
• 28:29
  Michelle: So I think like people kinda knew that. There obviously are some holes at certain positions. So
• 28:34
  Filiberto: The Gabby Williams signing definitely shapes the depth chart quite a bit.
• 28:38
  Michelle: Yeah. So they so the Valkyries announced they were waiving Kate Martin, who has been a fan favorite. She played with Caitlin Clark in Iowa. She was a surprise draft. Two..
• 28:52
  Filiberto: Expansion draft.
• 28:54
  Michelle: No. No. No. When she first got drafted by the Aces.
• 28:56
  Filiberto: Oh, by Aces themselves. Yeah. Two years ago.
• 28:58
  Michelle: So I was kinda surprised. She was there to support Caitlin in the draft, and then she actually got drafted herself. She wasn't expecting it to go that early. So that was cool. But the Aces and then during the expansion draft when the Valkyries were starting, they stole Kate from the Aces.
• 29:11
  But she's been a fan favorite, you know, has helped sell a lot of jerseys and the team has definitely been putting her front and center in a lot of their social media. So people were kind of I think a lot of fans were a little irritated that you've kind of propped her up a lot. You know, made a lot of fans fall in love with her and then and they waived her. But I I think there were other announcements like Iliana Rupert. They announced also at the same time that she is pregnant.
• 29:41
  So I don't think she's gonna play very much this year. So that just created some different like needs on the roster as well. So that definitely impacted who they thought they could keep. So it looks like the team's keeping I mean, they are. They announced their roster today.
• 29:55
  So Kaitlyn Chen will be staying and hopefully helping with the depth at the points. And then Leticia Ami Amihere here who's been with the team last year, looks like she's gonna make the roster as well to get some more height.
• 30:10
  Filiberto: Yeah. They need that size to pair out.
• 30:11
  Michelle: Yeah. Definitely gonna miss Kate Martin's great in the locker room. She's very funny. She's kinda she's dorkable. But I also think, you know, she shoots well from the three.
• 30:23
  You know, she's, you know, hot and cold. But when she's on, she shoots from the three very well. So I think the Valkyries will miss that a little bit. So other people are gonna have to fill that void of of scoring.
• 30:35
  Filiberto: Yeah. And I think, like, the other part of these salary cap moves and we'll try to send a a good article about the salary cap situation because it's something that we're all getting used to since they've never really had a salary cap like this. But the Valkyries don't really value their picks. That seems to be kind of the trend last year this year.
• 30:55
  Michelle: The draft picks.
• 30:55
  Filiberto: Their draft picks. They really value established players that have a track history that they think can work well together. They really yeah. Established players.
• 31:06
  Michelle: People who have experience in the W as opposed to experience in college.
• 31:09
  Filiberto: Yeah. And or experience in their professional leagues and their own countries as we've seen with France and Spain, particularly France. So I think it helps to understand the Flau'jae Johnson trade. They just didn't you know, they just weren't serious about that pick.
• 31:25
  Michelle: Yeah. I mean, they probably tried to trade away the pick
• 31:29
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 31:30
  Michelle: Because they they knew no matter who they picked, they weren't gonna keep them.
• 31:33
  Filiberto: And it you know, and I think this is us being very fan speculative. Like, we're not journalists. We don't have inside sources on this. But it seems that if they had a choice between trying to sign a veteran established player for half 1,000,000 versus trying to keep on a draft pick for 200,000,000, they're gonna go with that established veteran or 200 or 300,000, whatever. They're gonna go with that established veteran because they want pieces that can they can put into place right now rather than try to develop somebody.
• 32:03
  That seems to be the case.
• 32:05
  Michelle: Well, I think it goes to the whole narrative of when Natalie Nakase, who's the coach of the Valkyries, was being interviewed by the owner. He kind of laid down the gauntlet. He said, I want a I want a championship in the first five years. For an and for an expansion team, that's really hard to do. The Valkyries had a great first year.
• 32:25
  They gotta kinda keep that momentum going. And so I think that might be also part of it is if you if you truly are trying to win a championship as soon as possible, you might have this mindset that some of your veteran players are gonna get you there compared to, you know, trying to spend a couple of years coaching up and and player getting that experience from the draft that you're gonna you're gonna wanna kind of skip those steps a little bit and go with, like you said, some established players.
• 33:02
  So that kind of transition us transitions us perfectly into talking about the season starting.
• 33:10
  Filiberto: It's coming, y'all. Are you ready? Are you ready? Do you have your snacks ready? Do you have your special drinks ready?
• 33:15
  So what are our special drinks that we like when we're watching basketball, Michelle, before we get into some of those dynamics?
• 33:22
  Michelle: I don't know. Like, what do we we don't really have anything for tomorrow.
• 33:26
  Filiberto: Well so in the fridge right now, there's Daytrip, which is our favorite probiotic soda thingy.
• 33:31
  Michelle: Yes. There's all kinds of probiotic sodas.
• 33:33
  Filiberto: And then there's, like, like a Japanese tea drink that's really nice.
• 33:37
  Michelle: Chi or Yeah. Kikai.
• 33:38
  Filiberto: It's really great. We also got a Costco. Big shout out to Costco every episode one way or another. Please sponsor us.
• 33:43
  Michelle: So we can, like, do the mixes with some vodka tequila with that or mezcal, or we can go for a wine again.
• 33:49
  Filiberto: Yeah. We'll see. It's gonna be nice in the household.
• 33:52
  Michelle: Yeah. No. I'm excited. Finish up the workday, go do some some adult literacy tutoring, and then come back and the rest of the night watching basketball. It's gonna be great.
• 34:01
  Filiberto: And if there's other Valkyries basketball fans in Sacramento, let us know. Maybe we can do, like, a meetup some where Yeah. Depending on how many. If it's only a couple folks, just come over the house. That'd be tight.
• 34:09
  Michelle: Exactly. Watch party.
• 34:10
  Filiberto: Yeah. I'll make a little something.
• 34:12
  Michelle: Fili's been wanting to get a larger TV, so this might be
• 34:15
  Filiberto: justify it... Yeah. Every time we walk into Costco, it's like, woah, can get
• 34:20
  Michelle: I know they're right there.
• 34:21
  Filiberto: A 96 inch TV screen for $2,000. Like, what is this? It's bigger than any wall we have in the house. So, no, we could put it in the hallway. That's like three feet wide.
• 34:32
  Michelle: We could put it on one of those, like, the TV thing where you can, like, move it around. We could put that on the ceiling and then pull it down. It's so large.
• 34:40
  Filiberto: An arm emerging from the ceiling.
• 34:43
  Michelle: It into the into the the ceiling and then, like, you know, you push a button or it comes down. Like, the projector screens. Yeah. No. I don't want that.
• 34:52
  Filiberto: In any case.
• 34:54
  Michelle: Where do you what are some things whether it's Valkyries or just the league in general, what are some things that you're looking forward to this season?
• 35:01
  Filiberto: I think the the funnest part for me about any pro or even not pro season is, like, the first week because, like, you have the weirdest, like, records being handed out. So it's like somebody just starts off really strong and makes their first, like, seven three pointers or something. And suddenly, they're the greatest three point shooter in the history of the WNBA over their first week. Like, I love those weird obscure records that don't make any sense. They aren't gonna pan out.
• 35:28
  They're not suggestive of anything, but it's just it's a funny quirk to the beginning of the season. So that's that's something I look forward to. I think, secondarily, you know, there's a lot of teams in this this offseason in particular that are there's a lot of teams that are made up of very separate parts that just sort of got cobbled together. So just seeing how that goes down, you know, just seeing how they flow together, seeing you know, especially thinking about Chicago, They've changed their roster quite a bit. So seeing how that all comes together.
• 35:55
  Washington's really exciting with all their young players, just seeing how that comes together again. And, you know, with the Valkyries, I I'm just excited. I'm anxious. I'm anxious for the season to start because I'm so excited for what's possible with them. And, again, even if it just ends up not being a great season, we don't make the playoffs, whatever.
• 36:14
  I'm sure it'll be fun somewhere along the way. But, you know, we made the playoffs last year, and it feels like we're a stronger team. We're a better team than last year, at least from the roster and what we're seeing on paper. So just to see how that lays out is gonna be Really cool.
• 36:28
  Michelle: And I think we do have one of the better coaches in the league too.
• 36:31
  Filiberto: Yeah. Coach of the year, Natalie Nakase.
• 36:33
  Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. I definitely echo what you're saying. I think for the Valkyries, it's like they have such a great first season, and I wanna see kinda where that momentum takes them and kinda how like, what kind of start they get to the season. I'm excited to see some players who were injured last year to back.
• 36:50
  Like, Clark's gonna be hopefully, will be healthy for longer than a couple weeks at a time. Napheesa Collier, when she comes back, it's gonna be really exciting. I know she kinda had a rough end to last season, especially in the playoffs. But, hopefully, she had, you know, really great surgeries that she probably needed anyways because she's been playing for a while. So it'll be good to see her come back.
• 37:14
  I think seeing what Angel Reese does in Atlanta, again, being
• 37:18
  Filiberto: The Atlanta team is gonna be really again, look, another team that shaped up in the off season. They're gonna be really exciting to watch.
• 37:23
  Michelle: Yeah. They have so many great players. And then adding her, I think I wouldn't be surprised if they're, like, most improved compared to last year. Not that they were bad last year.
• 37:33
  Filiberto: They were solid last year.
• 37:34
  Michelle: And they have a great coach. Who was kind of like I think he he you know, if he didn't if he wasn't up against an expansion team coach that exceeded expectations he probably would of gotten coach of year last year, Karl Smesko
• 37:43
  He was up there he was a candidate
• 38:02
  The Vegas Aces stayed mostly intact and they have freaking Chennedy Carter
• 38:02
  I know a lot of people anticipate they will repeat. That's not a horribly bad thing because they're just amazing to watch. So I'm excited for that
• 38:11
  Filiberto: Sparks made some interesting moves too. So we'll see how that plays out.
• 38:14
  Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. That's Sparks is kinda what I was watching before Golden State. So they're kinda like my team. I am I am sad to see Rickea Jackson go.
• 38:21
  But she's, you know, part of that kind of Frankenstein, but in a nice way, Chicago rebuilt team. So I think they'll be great. I am excited to watch all the UCLA players, the national championship team. They've all landed at different teams this year. So just seeing kind of how they grow and how they contribute to their teams, I think will be awesome.
• 38:49
  Filiberto: I was always like a Gabby Williams fan. I liked I loved watching her in Seattle. I loved the way she plays, her length, her speed, just her acrobatic athletic ability, her defensive acumen, the way she scores. So just seeing her, like, gel into what the Valkyries already do is gonna be really, really fun.
• 39:07
  Michelle: I think Portland will be opening up on Saturday, so that'll be great to watch the two expansion teams. I'm also excited like somewhat someone like Mabrey, like kinda not wanting to be where she was last year and the team not caring and keeping her. And now she's with a team where she had a little bit more agency and and choice in that. And I think she's gonna kill it, especially, again, watching her in Unrivaled. I think she's gonna have this kinda, like, renewed purpose.
• 39:34
  Not that she didn't play her heart out before that, but I think she's gonna be a huge asset for Toronto. So I'm excited to watch her.
• 39:43
  Filiberto: Yeah. A lot of a lot of players had really good Unrivaled seasons. So it's also I think another note to keep an eye on is how well they transition into the W, season. They're ready to go. They're conditioned.
• 39:53
  They're gonna I feel like they're gonna really jump ahead of other people just because they were playing really competitive basketball most recently.
• 40:00
  Michelle: Yeah. But still having fun. But it was still
• 40:02
  Filiberto: It very fun. It was great to watch
• 40:03
  Michelle: Very Very competitive.
• 40:03
  Filiberto: It was great to watch. Very competitive, but camaraderie camaraderie was really high.
• 40:20
  Michelle: This is where we kinda talk a little bit about something that's kinda in our craw this week. Something that bothered us, that's been staying with us. And I think for me, and my I call this I'm gonna stop you right there. That's my polite interruption for people. I think for this week, kind of that narrative that surrounded Natasha Cloud for the last couple of weeks.
• 40:49
  As we mentioned earlier, she was with the New York Liberty last year. She's a free agent. And it took her a while to get signed. She was not one of the first free agents signed, kinda shocked a lot of people. She ended up signing with the Chicago Sky well into training camp, which is is late.
• 41:11
  She did a good job of kind of making sure she was in shape. She's still working out for when people called. And I think, like, a lot of people start thinking, this is such a great player. She has a lot to contribute. Why isn't she being signed?
• 41:24
  So I think there were, like, these theories that start boiling. She was one of the most vocal, if not the most vocal players against the genocide that was happening.
• 41:34
  Filiberto: I'm sure the mogul, like, she wore keffiyeh a lot. And I think you didn't see this as much, but on Twitter, she was, like, on everyone. She was calling the people out. She was talking shit. Like Yeah.
• 41:44
  She was just a really dedicated person to speaking to the to the genocide in Gaza.
• 41:52
  Michelle: Yes. And so there started being these thoughts of, like, maybe she's being punished. She's being retaliated against, by the powers that be, which we've seen happen across this country. That any ill words spoken about the Israeli government and the genocide they're perpetrating on Palestinians... being called antisemitic, just acknowledging there's genocide happening.
• 42:16
  Filiberto: I mean, there's gonna be people calling us antisemitic because we recognize that genocide's happening. That's we know that. That's fine.
• 42:24
  Michelle: So there were these theories that maybe she's being excluded because of her activism. And then you kinda had some sports journalists who were trying to chase down those rumors like, hey, is this really what's happening to her? She's she's a great player. Shouldn't be happening. Should be based on skill.
• 42:42
  And, you know, from their interviews with their sources, some of them on the record, some of them off the record, some of them were anonymous, some of them weren't. These journalists kinda started, like, pushing back on those ideas that this was retaliation for Natasha's activism and saying, no, she's she's asking too much money. She's overvaluing what she should be making financially. And I was like, I have several sources. I I talked to GMs, I talked to owners.
• 43:12
  They are very certain. They're very adamant. It has nothing to do with her social justice activism.
• 43:18
  Filiberto: Right! These sources didn't admit that they were doing something illegal.
• 43:21
  Michelle: Right.
• 43:22
  Filiberto: Okay. Nice investigative work.
• 43:25
  Michelle: And so that's what kind of has bothered me as a former journalist. And, you know, I covered I covered certain complicated, controversial items in my years. I know it was it was education, so people don't think of that as like super controversial or super sexy. But there were definitely times where I kinda had to chase down sources and camp outside their offices to get them to comment on something. So I know what it's like to have a source to talk kinda off the record and come back on the record.
• 43:59
  Okay. So what can you say publicly? And so I I know what that's like. And I also know when I'm being lied to. Like, when I was being straight faced lied to, and I knew it, they knew it, the source knew.
• 44:17
  So I think, like, to cut, for some of these sports journalists to posture as if these sources would never lie to them, would never
• 44:27
  Filiberto: And are therefore reliable.
• 44:29
  Michelle: And and it's like, you can that's fine to say these sources are saying no. Like, they're saying that's not what it is. But, like, the pushback that some of these sports journalists were making and and is really adamant that it had nothing to do with her social justice was kind of very bush league to me, very amateur, very self serving. Yah know, these are people who wanna continue having access to teams, to owners, to general managers, to coaches. And so they're gonna be very hesitant to say something that might be or to report anything or to push back in an interview, to chase something too hard because it might kinda alienate them for future coverage, which is fine.
• 45:16
  That's the situation you're in, but don't try to paint it as anything but. And that really just watching some of that behavior in last couple weeks was just really I don't know. Just left a bad taste in my mouth.
• 45:29
  Filiberto: Yeah. And as Michelle mentioned, she was a k-12 reporter, and I was an investigative journalist. And I think the thing that we wanna really or I wanna really sort of be clear with you all about just the nature of journalism and how it's developed and sports journalism in general and how it fits in is when you're interacting as a journalist, the biggest question that you deal with is who are you accountable to? And for me, when I was a labor journalist and more of a local reporter, I was very accountable to the unions that I was writing about, to the members that I was writing about because they were my neighbors' friends, etcetera. Sports journalists are accountable to their sources more than anybody else.
• 46:05
  And these are usually team officials, the owners themselves, etcetera. And that's they have to kind of go by that. And that means that they're highly, highly just skewed. There's a lot of bias in that. When they try to do things that are past just the basic sort of tenants of sports journalism, they try to be more investigative or more, quote unquote, hard news.
• 46:24
  So I just wanna be really clear about that. But even, you know, as a as an investigative journalist that was getting some funding from unions, I one of the areas that I never talked about and never wrote about was the Keystone pipeline because the building trades were involved in that construction and they would have really come after me and we knew that that was really obvious. And, you know, maybe you can call me a sellout, but what I was doing was try to preserve my capacity and ability to talk about immigrant labor, prison labor, all these other things. But it didn't mean that I wasn't taking those things seriously. Like when I did have sources that talked about the pipeline that were out there, that were defending the interests of Native American folks, I made sure that they had good reporters to talk to.
• 47:03
  I wasn't going to be able to carry their story, but I knew someone that would. And that's part that's the difference is I'm still accountable to people even though I can't do some of the reporting that they want me to do. I still need to find a way to get their voice out. And that's not what a sports journalist that's not that's not how they think about the world.
• 47:22
  Michelle: No. And I think, especially the way journalism is now, it's definitely contracting. There aren't as many jobs as there was five, ten years ago for sports journalists. So if you have a job, you wanna keep it.
• 47:39
  Filiberto: And it's easy to lose and easy to get replaced.
• 47:42
  Michelle: Especially when a lot of them won't hire you unless you have a certain following on social media. How do you get that following? But then also just really quickly, some of these journalists, you know, they get to spend a lot of face time with these athletes, some of them celebrities. Some of these journalists, they're hoping to write their books for them, which has happened a lot. I spent a lot time in the Bay Area.
• 48:06
  So I I know a lot of sports journalists who ended up writing, you know, autobiographies, biographies, memoirs for a lot of Golden State Warriors players. So like, I've seen that happen. I know how it goes. And so it's just something else, like, keep in mind at the back of their their mind is what they're thinking of for their future sometimes. So I think it's just important to, like, just mention that plant that seed as the WNBA and other women's leagues grow.
• 48:35
  They're gonna get more resources from traditional media, other media. There's gonna be more reporters covering them, which is a great thing. These stories are getting out there. But also, you're getting some of those, like, old school motivations that have been around in in leagues for a while. So just it's just, like, important for people to kinda, like, know that backstory and just have that in mind when they are reading some of this coverage consuming the coverage.
• 49:01
  Filiberto: Which reminds me of the second thing I wanted to say about what I'm looking forward to this season. So speaking about media and journalists, it's, you know, it so Michelle and I aren't the only people that are putting out a podcast in the second season of the Valkyries. In general, there's a lot of people just out there, not just about the Valkyries, but in general, covering all sorts of other teams that are coming on board. And we'll be talking about them as as the season progresses. We'll have our own perspectives and opinions about them.
• 49:25
  But I I think, you know, I anticipate and expect this is a supportive community because that's how it's been for me in the past. And I'm just really excited how these all these different operators and voices sort of develop their tone and perspective as well as ours. I'm excited for us and just see where we end up. So that's that was the thing I'm excited about for this season as well.
• 49:45
  Michelle: Yeah. What's what is with you that's what's sitting with you this week?
• 50:00
  Filiberto: Yeah. So alright. Mira homies. Mother's Day is coming up. This episode will probably come out day of or shortly before or afterward.
• 50:09
  But, you know, I just want to make sure for myself that folks that don't have conventional relationships with their mothers are seen and heard. So, you know, the the idea behind this segment is also for you all just to get to know us for our own accountability and transparency. So you know how we're thinking about the world and where we're coming from. And so that means a little bit of biographical information. So for me, my mother passed away.
• 50:37
  I'm 43 now. I'll be 44 soon. She passed away when I was, 22 or 23. And so I've been living without a mother for quite some time. I also just had a really complicated relationship with her.
• 50:47
  She wasn't the best person to me specifically. And it was hard being raised by her. It was hard growing up with her. And as much as I loved her very much, she wasn't someone that really honored that love very consistently. And so, you know, the the first couple of years after she died, people still would ask me, hey, what are doing for Mother's Day?
• 51:10
  Not remembering that my mother just died, and they would look really upset with themselves when they finally put it together. And I'm not as reactive as I used to be in those early years, but it's still hard. It's a still it's a difficult period, especially when everything just kind of wants to hit you with a normative, you know, cis hetero sort of relationship to your mother and this nuclear family dynamic, which honestly, most people don't really have. People have chosen family. People have, people they consider mothers or just mentors or people they look to.
• 51:42
  So for everyone that struggles through this holiday period, I just want you to know that you're heard and seen at least by this podcast. And then I hope you do something that honors the different relationships that you have with your sort of, with your with the people that you that you consider your mother, your femme supporter, or just your people, you know what I'm saying? So I'm thinking of you and I'm thinking about a society that's more gentle and empathic about those things.
• 52:14
  Michelle: Yeah. I think it's yeah. It's the approach to Mother's Day is very cisgendered. It's very hetero. It's very traditional, this nuclear family idea like you mentioned.
• 52:31
  And I think it's important to recognize people out there who are caretakers or caregivers. For example, we're not having children, but we have nieces and nephews that we are involved in their lives. I have two nephews and a niece. We do sleepovers over here. So I'm trying to be that auntie, that part of their lives, even though I don't have children myself.
• 52:59
  And I think a lot of us our grandmothers or grandparents for very strong people in our lives. I think also we leave out people who can't be with their moms right now because their moms are incarcerated. Or people who wanted to have kids but couldn't. Or people who have lost their children.
• 53:26
  Filiberto: Separated from their children.
• 53:28
  Michelle: So I think there's a lot of different situations, a lot of different perspectives, a lot of different lived realities that that holiday kinda leaves out. And I'm glad that you kinda shared your relationship with your mom and and kinda bring attention to uplifting those other stories. Because a lot of people who do have mothers or mother figures love them to death, get along with them really well. But there are other people who did not have great relationships with their parents growing up. And I think to kind of like, although marketing goes in this holiday and wrap it with a bow and all this stuff, that's not necessarily the experience a lot of us have.
• 54:14
  And it's a hard Sunday to kind of be inundated with all of that imagery.
• 54:23
  Filiberto: Yeah. And I think for those folks out there that just sort of don't have your kids around anymore or they passed away or something, I'm always in the mood for a surrogate parent. Y'all are so sweet. I do I'm a sucker for for a mother figure in my life always. I love the doting.
• 54:43
  I love all of it. It's it's super nice for me. So hit us up. We'll hang out. I'll find you.
• 54:52
  Just kidding. That's a little creepy. But I think, yeah, in general, not all of us were raised by people that we were able to trust even at an early age. And I just wanna make sure you all know that you're seen and heard.
• 55:12
  Michelle: That's beautiful. Thank you.
• 55:14
  Filiberto: Thank you.
• 55:20
  Michelle: Thanks for listening and building community with us. Make sure you're following us on Instagram at pod we got next, and subscribe at wegotnextpod.org.