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Teacher, Her Parents Arrested for Trying to Murder Child · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Deep Dive. We are so glad you
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: are joining us today.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Thank you for being here with us. We've got
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of ground to cover.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: We really do. So for today's source of material, we
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: are looking at a highly detailed transcript from the Law
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and Crime Network.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Right. And it features an incredibly in-depth breakdown of a
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: truly horrifying Oregon child abuse case. Yeah.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: And the transcript is heavily supplemented by insights from former
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: criminal prosecutor Dan Shore. Which is just, I mean, his
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: perspective is invaluable here.
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  Speaker 2: It really is. His analysis is what makes this source
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: so compelling.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Exactly. And, you know, our mission for this deep dive
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: isn't just to recount a true crime story for the
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: sake of it.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: No, not at all. The goal is to deconstruct the
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: really complex legal mechanisms at play here. Right.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: The prosecutorial strategies, the psychological realities, all the moving parts
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: involved in bringing a massive, 28-charge indictment against an entire family.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: It's a huge legal undertaking, and understanding how the state
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: builds that kind of case is exactly what we're going
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: to break down.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this. But before we jump into the
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: really heavy legal analysis, we do need to issue a
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: very clear content warning for you listening.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a tough one.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: It is. The subject matter involves severe, systematic child abuse.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: The details are inherently disturbing.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Very much so.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: And while our focus is going to stay rigorously on
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: the legal, medical, and psychological frameworks, you know, the foundational
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: facts of this case are just, they're difficult to process.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: They are. But understanding those specific difficult facts is the
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: only way to actually comprehend the unprecedented legal response we're seeing. Right.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: So setting the scene here, the central figure in all
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: of this is a 33-year-old woman named Sarah Session.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: And she is accused of unimaginable cruelty. against a child
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: under 10 who required specialized care. But here's the thing.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: She wasn't just some overwhelmed, uneducated caregiver.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: No, she was a fully licensed special education teacher in Oregon. Right.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: She worked at Ponderosa Elementary from 2020 to 2021. And
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: apparently she had absolutely no conduct complaints. Zero.
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  Speaker 2: A totally clean record.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And later she worked at Evergreen Virtual Academy. So,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: She had the exact specialized training needed for this child's care.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: And she had sole responsibility for them.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: And that professional background is so crucial. Dan Shore points
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: out that society is deeply conditioned to fear like the
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: stranger danger scenario.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. The boogeyman in the white van. Exactly.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: We are wired to look for threats from the outside.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: But statistically speaking, severe abuse is most often perpetrated by
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: trusted caregivers.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: It's the illusion of safety, right? The weaponization of trust.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, precisely. The transcript dives into the psychology of this.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Shore explains how a caregiver dynamic creates this massive power imbalance.
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  Speaker 1: Because the adult has total dominance over a defenseless child.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Right. And for certain psychological profiles, exercising that power becomes
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: almost intoxicating. It stops being about care and becomes about control.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: Shore also notes how, you know, caregiving frustration can warp
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: into retribution.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by retribution?
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Well, caring for a child with special needs takes immense
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: emotional regulation. When someone lacks that, they hit a wall
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: of frustration. And instead of getting help, they start viewing
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: the child as an antagonist.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: So they punish the child for their own burnout.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Basically, yeah. And that ties into the cycle of generational violence,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: which Shore mentions is a common thread where individuals internalize
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: violence from their own childhoods and project it as a
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: standard of control.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. I mean, it's like a firefighter committing arson.
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  Speaker 1: The very training meant to protect is being subverted to destroy.
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  Speaker 2: That's a really stark way to put it, but it's
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: entirely accurate.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: But wait, let me push back on this for a second.
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  Speaker 2: Sure.
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  Speaker 1: If she had a totally clean record at these schools,
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  Speaker 1: couldn't a defense attorney use her pristine professional background to
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: argue this was all just a tragic misunderstanding or like
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: an accident caused by severe burnout?
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  Speaker 2: What's fascinating here is that her specialized training actually hurts
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: her defense.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Wait, really? How does it hurt her?
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  Speaker 2: Because it completely nullifies the I didn't know what I
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: was doing excuse.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: In criminal law, you have to establish intent. If an
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: untrained person makes a fatal error, they might successfully argue ignorance.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: They didn't know the standard of care. Right.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: They could say they were just clueless. Exactly.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: But a trained, licensed professional cannot accidentally commit the specific,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: calculated acts alleged in this indictment.
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  Speaker 1: Because she passed the exams. She took the courses. She
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: literally holds a license proving she knows the consequences of
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: these actions.
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  Speaker 2: You hit the nail on the head. Her credentials prove
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: she knew exactly what the standard of care was, which
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: means any deviation was a conscious choice.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Wow. So since her professional background proves she knew exactly
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: what she was doing, we have to look at this
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: specific horrifying timeline of what she actually did.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, and the timeline laid out in the indictment is staggering.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: It covers an eight-month period from June 1, 2023 to
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: February 6, 2024.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Eight months. That is a relentlessly long time for a
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: child to endure this.
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  Speaker 2: It is. The conditions described are just horrific. The child
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: was isolated in a room with only a bare mattress.
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  Speaker 1: Just a mattress. No toys, no furniture.
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  Speaker 2: Nothing. And they were systematically deprived of food and water.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: And the physical abuse, too. The source mentions the child
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: was beaten with a curtain rod and a window stopper.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, and then there's the allegation that the child was
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: forced to eat their own vomit.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, God. That is just, that goes so far beyond
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: physical abuse. That is pure psychological degradation.
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  Speaker 2: It is. It's designed to break a person's spirit completely.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: So all of this builds to what we can call
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: the medical climax of the case, which happened in February 2024.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Right, the events that finally brought this to light.
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  Speaker 1: The child is rushed to the St. Charles Bend Emergency
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Department entirely unresponsive.
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  Speaker 2: And their condition was so critical, they had to be
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: transferred to Oregon Health and Science University Hospital in Portland.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Which is a major, major medical center. And that's where
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: we get this critical medical finding.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: The sodium levels.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, the hypernatremia. The transcript notes that the doctors reported
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: the child's sodium levels were, quote, the highest ever recorded
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: by their staff.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: It's almost unfathomable.
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  Speaker 1: And it left the child hovering right on the edge
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: of death. So this leads directly to the primary charge
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: against Sarah, attempted murder. Right.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: And that is a massive legal threshold to cross.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: That's what I want to ask about. Proving someone wanted
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  Speaker 1: to kill someone seems incredibly difficult if you don't have
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  Speaker 1: like a written confession.
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  Speaker 2: It's one of the hardest things a prosecutor has to do.
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  Speaker 1: So how do prosecutors prove she actually intended to end
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: this child's life rather than just wanting to inflict terrible
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: harm or make them sick?
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  Speaker 2: Well, the law recognizes that we don't have mind-reading devices,
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  Speaker 2: so intent to kill can be inferred from the sheer
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: lethality of the action itself.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, so the action speaks for the mind.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Dan Shore explains that giving someone a massive lethal
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: dose of sodium implies an intent to cause death, much
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: like firing a gun at someone's chest implies intent to kill.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Because you can't realistically expect them to survive that.
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  Speaker 2: Right. But even beyond direct intent, there is the concept
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  Speaker 2: of depraved indifference to human life.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Depraved indifference. I hear that term on legal shows all
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: the time, but what does it actually mean here?
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  Speaker 2: It means that even if her explicit goal wasn't to kill,
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  Speaker 2: her actions were so monumentally reckless, so completely disregarding of
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  Speaker 2: the value of human life, that the law treats it
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  Speaker 2: the same as attempted murder.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. So isolating a child, starving them And forcing lethal
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  Speaker 1: amounts of salt into their body, that is the definition
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: of depraved indifference. Exactly.
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  Speaker 2: The reckless actions that lead to near death are sufficient
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  Speaker 2: for the charge, regardless of whether she sat down and
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  Speaker 2: planned a murder.
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  Speaker 1: That makes total sense. So once the hospital realized the
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: severity of this abuse, the investigation didn't just point to Sarah.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: No, it blew wide open.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: It exposed a much wider web of complicity. Right, which
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: brings us to the co-defendants, Sarah's own parents.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Gary and Paula Hardenberg.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Gary is a retired engineer with absolutely no
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: criminal history whatsoever. Yet both parents are swept up in this.
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  Speaker 2: The charges against them are incredibly serious. They're facing criminal mistreatment,
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  Speaker 2: tampering with physical evidence, and misleading law enforcement.
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  Speaker 1: And the specific evidence the authorities have is just damning.
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  Speaker 1: They reportedly have video surveillance of the parents cleaning the
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  Speaker 1: child's room after Sarah was arrested.
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  Speaker 2: They were actively scrubbing the crime scene while their daughter
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  Speaker 2: was in custody.
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  Speaker 1: It's wild. But there's a detail here that really stands out.
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  Speaker 1: Paula faces an additional felony assault charge while Gary does not.
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  Speaker 2: That discrepancy is very telling. It tells us a lot
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: about the prosecution's strategy.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Here's where it gets really interesting. Because charging family members
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: in cases like this, it's not just about punishing the cover-up, right?
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: No, it's a very calculated strategic move to build leverage.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: It reminds me of a classic prisoner's dilemma scenario. You know,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: you lock up two co-conspirators and offer them both a
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: deal to flip on the other.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: That's exactly the dynamic prosecutors are trying to create.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: But flipping co-conspirators in a gang or a corporation is
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: one thing. Asking parents to take the stand to testify
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  Speaker 1: against their own daughter, that seems like an incredibly difficult
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  Speaker 1: psychological barrier for the state to cross.
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  Speaker 2: It is a huge barrier, but prosecutors know how to
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: apply pressure. They might approach Gary, for instance, and offer
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: him a plea bargain.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Like reduced prison time.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Or no prison time at all.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
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  Speaker 2: They offer probation or a severely reduced sentence, but the
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  Speaker 2: absolute condition is that he has to provide full, truthful
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: testimony against Sarah. Wow.
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  Speaker 1: So they force him to choose between his own freedom
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: and his daughter's.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Right. And as for that discrepancy in the charges, the
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: fact that Paula got hit with an assault charge and
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Gary didn't. Yeah.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: What does that signify?
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: It suggests prosecutors know undisclosed details. It implies they have
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: evidence that Paula was physically involved in inflicting the abuse,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: while Gary was perhaps only involved in the cover up.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. So they are tailoring the charges based on
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: highly specific evidence we haven't even seen yet.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They aren't just throwing everything at the wall. It's
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: a precision strike to maximize pressure on each individual.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: But, you know, to apply that legal pressure, the state
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  Speaker 1: actually needs to have the suspects in custody.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Right, which leads us to the totally chaotic circumstances of
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: their arrest.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, the manhunt. Because once the felony warrant was issued,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: the entire family fled.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: They packed up and ran.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: They were eventually tracked down to an Airbnb in Coos Bay, Oregon.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't some high-tech FBI trace. Hotel staff recognized
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: them from local news photos and called the cops.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Which just shows how closely the community was watching this case.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Definitely. But during the arraignment, Gary's attorney, Todd Grover, completely
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: contested this fleeing fugitive narrative.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, he framed it very differently.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: He claimed Gary was having a, quote, mental health crisis,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: that he had been hospitalized. And that the family had
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: actually proactively reached out to law enforcement to surrender voluntarily.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Which is a very smart move by the defense attorney
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: because that narrative directly impacts their legal standing, specifically regarding bail.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: And the bail discrepancies were huge.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: A massive amount.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: They did the arraignment via video link. And the judge
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: set Sarah's bail at $ 1 million.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: A massive amount.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: But Gary's bail was set at just $ 75, 000. So what
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: does this all mean for the defense? How does a $ 925, 000
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: difference in bail happen when they are technically part of
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the same alleged cover-up?
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: If we connect this to the bigger picture, we have
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: to look at the mathematics of bail.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Okay. How does that math work?
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Bail is not supposed to be a punishment. Legally, it
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: is primarily about assessing and mitigating flight risk.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: So it's just about making sure they show up to court.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. And flight risk is heavily influenced by the
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: potential length of incarceration a defendant is facing.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Which makes sense. If you're facing more time, you're more
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: likely to run.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Right. Sarah is facing life-altering time, potentially decades, for attempted murder.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: The incentive for her to flee is incredibly high, so
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the bail has to be astronomically high to counter that.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: One million dollars high. Yes.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: But Gary, his top charge is criminal mistreatment. And as
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: a retired engineer with no criminal history... He is looking
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: at a presumptive probationary sentence for that charge.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Wait, so he might not even go to prison if convicted?
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Very possibly. He faces a vastly different reality than his daughter. Furthermore,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: his attorney's claim about attempting to voluntarily surrender was a
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: highly calculated move.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: To show the judge he isn't trying to hide.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It's to prove he isn't a flight risk, thereby
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: securing that much lower $ 75, 000 bail. That is fascinating.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Now, there was also a procedural quirk in this timeline
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: that I noticed in the transcript.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: The refiling of the charges?
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sarah's initial charges were filed back in April. Then
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: they were dismissed. And then completely refiled this week alongside
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: her parents' charges. Why do prosecutors do that? Doesn't that
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: look like they messed up?
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: It looks messy to the public, but it's very common.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Prosecutors do this to gather more evidence or to secure
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: cooperating witnesses before going to trial.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: So they filed early to get her off the street.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: then step back to build a massive 28-charge conspiracy case.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Precisely. They dismiss and refile to fix any procedural flaws
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: and ensure they have an airtight case before officially going
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: to war in the courtroom.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so with the legal chessboard completely set and
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: these defendants locked into their respective legal battles, we come
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: to the ultimate, most sensitive question of this entire deep dive.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: How the state presents the trauma to a jury. Right.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: How do you present this trauma unimaginable reality to 12
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: strangers without completely re-traumatizing the victim.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: It is the single biggest hurdle in child abuse prosecutions.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: The collateral damage is profound.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: We saw a glimpse of that profound damage during the arraignments.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Christopher Session, the victim's father who was separated from Sarah,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: gave this tearful statement in court.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: It was incredibly difficult to read.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: He stated that his children have been entirely robbed of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: their innocence. They've been deeply traumatized.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: And they are living in a state of hypervigilance now.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He said they live in constant fear that Sarah will, quote,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: come and take them in the middle of the night.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Which is why the judge imposed a strict no-contact order immediately. Right.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: To provide a legal shield for the kids. But obviously
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: no one wants to put a terrified, traumatized child under
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the age of 10 on a witness stand.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Forcing a child to face their abuser and endure a
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: cross-examination is just... It's a horrific prospect. So.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Why is that even a risk? Can't a doctor or
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: a police officer who interviewed the child at the hospital
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: just go to court and tell the jury what the
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: child told them?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: This raises an important question, and it brings us to
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: a major constitutional roadblock, the hearsay rule.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: The hearsay rule. We hear that term all the time,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: but how does it block a police officer from just
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: repeating a statement?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Well, the Sixth Amendment guarantees a defendant the right to
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: confront their accuser. So generally, you cannot just have someone
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: else repeat a statement in court because the defense attorney
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: can't cross-examine the person who actually made the statement.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Because the cop is just repeating words. The defense can't
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: test the child's actual memory or see if they were coached. Exactly.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: If the child isn't on the stand, the statement is
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: considered hearsay and is typically inadmissible.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: But wait, in a case like this, that means a
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: child's entire story could be thrown out Just because they
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: are too traumatized to testify.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: It's a huge problem. However, there are some very narrow
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: legal exceptions to the hearsay rule that prosecutors use.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. What are the exceptions? How do they get the
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: story in?
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: One exception is called an excited utterance.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: An excited utterance. Yes.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: If a person blurts something out in the immediate chaos
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: and trauma of an event, like right as they are
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: being rescued, the law considers that statement reliable because they
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: didn't have time to fabricate a lie.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Ah, so the panic almost guarantees the truth. Right.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: But the more common exception for these cases is for
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: statements made specifically for medical diagnosis.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, like when the child is talking to the emergency
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: room doctors at St. Charles Bend.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Yes. The legal reasoning is that a patient has a
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: vested interest in telling their doctor the truth so they
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: can get the correct life-saving treatment.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: So if the doctor asks, who withheld your food? Or
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: how did you ingest this salt? The child's answer is admissible.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. The doctor can testify to those specific statements
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: because the medical context provides a strong presumption of reliability. Wow.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: So the doctors essentially become the voice of the victim
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: They do. And Dan Shore concludes that because of the
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: overwhelming medical records, specifically those undeniable sodium levels and the
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: physical evidence.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Like the bare room in the video of the parents cleaning.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Right. Because of all that, prosecutors might be able to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: construct a totally bulletproof case without ever forcing the child
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: to testify.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: The physical and medical evidence does the testifying for them.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The science speaks louder than any witness could.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: That is just it's incredible how the system tries to
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: work around that trauma.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: It really is a delicate dance.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Well, as we bring this deep dive to a close,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: let's briefly summarize the sheer weight of this impending legal battle.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: especially as plea hearings approach in March.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've covered a massive amount of legal ground today.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: We started by looking at the subversion of specialized trust,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: how a licensed teacher's credentials actually nullify the defense of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: an accident.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: And we broke down the lethal medical evidence, how hypernatremia
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: meets the threshold for an attempted murder charge through depraved indifference.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Right. And then we analyzed the strategic charging of the
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: family members, creating that prisoner's dilemma to force cooperation.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: And finally, navigating the hearsay rule to prosecute the case
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: without re-traumatizing the victim on the stand.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: It's a masterclass in prosecutorial strategy built out of an
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: absolute nightmare scenario.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Before we sign off, I want to leave you listening
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: with a final chilling thought to ponder on your own.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: We didn't explicitly cover this in our main legal breakdown,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: but it's the elephant in the room.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: If a highly trained, licensed special education professional someone vetted
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: by multiple school districts and implicitly trusted by society, can
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: allegedly commit such horrors behind closed doors without raising a
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: single red flag at work? How fundamentally flawed are the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: systemic safety nets we rely on?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: It's a terrifying question. It is.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: How much blind faith are we putting into a resume
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: to monitor the well-being of our most vulnerable children once
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: they leave the classroom?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: It forces us to reevaluate how we measure safety and
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: trust as a society.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: It absolutely does. Thank you so much for joining us
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: for this deep dive. We know this was a heavy one,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: but we appreciate you sticking with it to understand these
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: complex realities.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yes. Thank you for listening.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Stay curious, think critically, and we will catch you on
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: the next deep dive.