Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 15) (5/9/26)

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Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 15) (5/9/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
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  back into the interview given by the unnamed lieutenant from
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  MCC to the investigators from the OIG. Question okay, fair enough,
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  do you know why Epstein was in prison? Answer? Yeah?
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  Question why answer underage trafficking, child molestation charges like that question?
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  And did you have any specific feelings regarding why you
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  was in prison? Answer? No? Question how often will you
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  speak with Epstein? Answer whenever I needed to? Question all right,
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  and kind of conversation that had any substance to it,
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  like substantative conversation, anything about what was like more than
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  just like below? Answer nah? Question No, and you said
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  you did not work at all on August tenth. Answer
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  that's the day it happened, right question Yeah, answer I
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  wasn't there. Question and then you were definitively gone by
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  then from MCC by four pm on August ninth. Answer
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  I think so, Yeah, I think so. Question so you
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  may have been gone as early as two pm, you
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  just can't recall. Answer yeah. Question when was your next shift?
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  Answer that happened on what Saturday? Question? Yeah, he was
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  found on a Saturday. Answer he died on Saturday, right
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  question Yeah, answer Saturday. I don't know if I came
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  in on Sunday. I think I came in on Sunday.
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  Question okay, And did you at the time did you
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  speak with anybody about Epstein's death? Answer? I mean I
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  knew about it. Everyone was talking about it. Question yeah,
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  So what was your understanding about how he died? Answer
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  young himself? Question do you know anything about anyone else
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  taking his life? Answer no? Question no. Do you know
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  anything about anyone assisting with taking his life? Answer no,
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  question no. Do you believe that Epstein his own life?
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  Answer yeah. Question do you believe that Epstein acted alone
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  in taking his own life? Answer yes? Question all right,
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  Then there's only three more questions here. They are more
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  open ended. What do you believe would have prevented Epstein
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  from dying? Answer nothing? Question nothing. Do you think that
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  if he was or wanted to take his life he
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  would have done it? Answer? If it was a regular inmate,
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  I don't even think he would have, you know. Question
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  what are some of the systematic problems inside the MCC
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  and specifically the shoe that allowed for Epstein to die? Answer?
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  Systematic problems question, you know, like he gets cut off
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  by the lieutenant. It sounds like a union question or
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  something like that. Question. Well, no, because, like I told you,
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  we're trying to look into like, hey man, you're right question.
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  If another inmate died, we're probably not going to be
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  here talking to you. But this is high profile. We
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  now need to know and figure out what went wrong here?
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  How do we fix it? So, in your opinion, what
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  went wrong here? Answer? I mean question, and how do
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  we fix it? We're from the government, we're here to
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  help answer. Yeah, my opinion, the whole cell mate leaving,
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  that's not on nobody. I'm not if I have the
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  notice he had up until that time and left for
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  one day, then this happens. I can't blame lieutenant staff notifications.
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  You know. Remember there's like nine hundred inmates in there. Question.
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  Right answer, I know, he's high profile, but we also
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  have to monitor other inmates. The round situation. If that's true,
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  that could have been a little bit. You know, you've
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  got to make the rounds in chew. Question counts too though,
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  right answer, You've got to make rounds and counts. Question. Now,
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  going back to there, you say it's not on anybody.
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  But if he psychology is saying he's required to have
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  a cell mate, it's got to be on somebody. Right,
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  If he's on the hot list, he's in the shoe
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  where he's supposed to have a cell mate anyway, and
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  psychology is saying he's got to have a cell mate,
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  it's got to fall on somebody to make sure. Hey,
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  who's supposed to make sure that this guy's got a
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  cell mate? His cellmate is gone? He doesn't have a
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  cell mate. Answer So if I know, if I get
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  the notice by eight, right, so I'm evening Ops watch,
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  I get the notice, Hey, this guy doesn't have a
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  cell mate, All right, what's my call? I just throw
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  him in there with anybody. Question. My thought and from
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  talking to other people, are supposed to be that shoe
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  staff should have notified the ops lieutenant or the Activities lieutenant,
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  who then should have notified the captain. Answer, Yeah, at
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  eight I could see that. But at the time on
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  day watch. Question Yeah, answer, it's a judgment call question,
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  And I'm not talking about at at am. I'm saying,
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  like what you just said. Answer, I want to say
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  that we can't indiscernible notice. Question, you don't think that
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  the cell mat thing should be on anybody. Well, but
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  it's like it's got to be on somebody. If he's
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  required to have a cell mate, somebody's got to make
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  sure that he's got a cell mate. Answer, Yeah, but
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  what if I don't remember these guys don't even the
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  guy's on Evening Watch. Wasn't even sure it was right,
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  it was overtime, I know redacted. He gets cut off
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  by the investigator. Well, no, I'm not talking about I'm
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  talking about it was redacted. Answer. But if i'm the
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  OIC question, I think redacted and Noel answer he wasn't
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  even in custody at the time. No more question. All right,
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  So but you got toavin Noel who that's her quarterly post. Answer? Well,
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  she did a double that day, right question. Well she
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  but yeah, but at eight pm that was her first shift,
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  right answer. Yeah. Question, So we're talking we're talking now,
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  not talking about morning Watch. We're talking about you're saying
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  eight pm, right answer. Yeah, question, So that's evening watch.
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  So we're looking at we are looking at he gets
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  cut off by the lieutenant. So if I know, if
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  I'm notified by eight and I call the captain say, hey,
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  this guy don't what's my next move? Then throw him
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  in with anybody. I mean I can see them saying
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  whoever said that? Because they say, hey, kick it up?
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  Question right? Answer, you know, kick it up, kick the
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  blame up top. Now if I'm on, what do you
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  want me to do? Throw the guy in there with
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  anybody just because he has to have a cell mate?
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  Answer well, some people have said that at the very least,
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  they would have put him on like a dry cell
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  type of situation where you've got a staff member on
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  him until he can get placed with a cell mate.
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  Answer yeah, but that's a questionable move too. You want
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  me to take him and put him on you know?
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  Question so you believe so, I guess that's your belief
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  then answer, I mean, there was a time and opportunity.
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  Guy wanted to take his life. The mate left, He
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  saw the time and an opportunity, and he did it.
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  The officer is you know, question, but you don't believe though,
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  As a correctional officer, it's a responsibility to ensure we
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  ensure that they don't die while in our custody. Answer, well,
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  that's what the rounds are for. That's why it's so
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  important question. All right, so that's why you think it's
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  really the rounds and the counts, but not necessarily the
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  cell mate. But the rounds and the counts. Answer, well,
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  in the shoe, you're required to do it. You have
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  to do it. It's for the inmate. Question. And if
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  they're not doing the rounds, the thirty minute rounds, that's
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  really the blame here. Answer, that's a bad situation. It's
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  a bad situation. Question. So you blame it on the
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  rounds way more than you would blame it on the
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  cell mate. Answer, that's it the cell mate. He ain't
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  there question? Yeah, answer, you know, I mean that happened.
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  It's the same thing. I understand. They sent out the notification.
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  There's no timeframe on it is an goes hey, you
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  know by the way this guy was on you sent
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  this out a month ago. He's not suicidal, no more,
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  he said it. It's like, you know, question, Well, in
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  this case, I think it was like nine days. Answer yeah,
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  but there's still no timeframe. Some guys say they suicidal
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  just to get out a shoe and play the game,
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  go back in. But it's never saying hey, this guy
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  is not there's no memo saying, does not need a
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  cell mate. Question would you agree though, that it's both
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  the fact that he was required to have a cell
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  mate and that they weren't conducting the rounds? Answer? Yeah, question,
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  and that's where when I talk about the problems, he
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  gets cut off by the lieutenant. The thing is that happened.
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  But it's like that can happen. Hey, O, his bunkie left.
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  I didn't put a cell mate. That can happen. You
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  know that can happen here you get inmates that was
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  crying on level two. Hey got to have a cell mate.
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  You moved them? Yeah? Oh you ain't check? Oh you know?
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  Question Yeah. So I think that what I understand you
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  saying is that the primary issue is not doing rounds
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  secondary and the much lesser issue was that they didn't
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  fill up to cell mate. Is that correct answer? Yeah?
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  Question okay? And are there any other problems or violations
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  occurring inside the MCC that we should be made aware of? Answer?
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  Huh question we're talking about the MCC. Answer violations. Question
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  anything that we should have known about that you think
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  needs fixed? Answer? You got a mandated a lot. I
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  know that you're working. Question, So there is what you're
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  saying then that they're severely understaffed. Answer they was, I
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  don't know how it is now, but they was. Question
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  and again, when did you leave there? Answer December of nineteen.
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  Question December of nineteen. At that point, were they extremely understaffed? Answer? Extremely?
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  Question what about was there anything that was being fixed
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  ever since? When Epstein died on August of twenty nineteen?
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  Did you see anything being fixed at that point? Answer?
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  They changed the log I know that. Question what does
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  that mean? Answer? They started putting inmates that go to
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  court just in case. We started doing them and started
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  attaching the PP thirty eight to the log. Question so
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  they would almost be part of the outcount. Answer. No,
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  you could see you could see all the movement. Question okay, answer,
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  you know you could see all the movement. They started
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  single cell memos every time. I need to know every
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  night because I worked the morning every night. Hey who's
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  up there? Single cell? That was my every night thing.
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  We started that. More rounds, more reiteration of doing your rounds.
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  I know the rounds. They got tighter with the rounds.
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  The log. It was some things. There were some things
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  as far as staff. I think they did hire a
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  class like right, before you know. Question now, has that
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  just been a constant problem with the MCC with being
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  able to fill He gets cut off by the low tenant. Yeah,
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  that's been a problem for a while. It wasn't like
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  that when I first got there, though, Question and what
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  is why do you think that it was so hard
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  to keep staff placed? Answer? Well, I think they can't compete.
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  It's the pay. They're not competing with other agencies. It's
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  a tough job working there is tough. Question. Yeah. Answer,
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  it's not easy. I'll tell you that. Question What makes
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  it so tough? Answer You've got some unruly inmates? Question Yeah. Answer,
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  you got a lot of unruly inmates and you're doing
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  some long hours. Question Are they doing long hours because
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  it's understaffed? Answer? Yeah, question, and that's what I mean.
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  So it sounds to me, I mean an outsider's perspective
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  is that they need a lot more employees. Answer No,
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  they need that definitely more employees. Question is there a
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  way for us to not only get employees, but get
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  good employees? What would be the solution here? Answer? I
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  mean you got to recruit. You got to take people
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  that really want to do the job. Question he gets
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  cut off by the lieutenant. I mean it takes some
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  people that you know, say hey, you can make this
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  your first year, just going to put some work in.
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  You've got people that want it, you know, they want
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  the money. Question you think it means that they should
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  have like a higher pay at the MCC Answer higher pay,
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  or you look for people that are looking for opportunity,
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  you know, question like as in make it like a
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  rotating place. You have to do a certain amount of
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  time there and then you can go to like your
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  choice location. What do you mean by opportunity, I guess
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  I should say, answer like, I don't know. I know,
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  I think it's a college requirement or credit something like that.
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  Is it? I don't know. I'm not sure. Question We've
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  definitely talked to people that don't have bachelor's degrees. Answer yeah,
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  but I think they have some credits. I think they
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  change it for credits. Question. Yes, some people have said
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  some college. Answer yeah. Question that we've talked to that
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  they don't have. I don't think I've talked to anybody
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  that said they didn't have college. But I mean I
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  think it was like a couple credits, you know. Answer yeah,
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  but I mean some people without college it's one opportunity
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  to say, hey, you can make sixty g's your first year.
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  I just need you to show up and work, follow
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  the rules, you know. And the credit check I think
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  was getting a lot of people. Question is that right? Answer? Yeah,
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  credit checks. I think that weeds out a lot of people.
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  Question Now do you believe though, on that note, if
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  we're doing credit checks, we're letting that slide. Wouldn't that
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  breed potential problems with introduction of contraband and being paid
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  you know, for bribing, bribing and bringing things in answer
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  bribery and stuff. Question, Yeah, because that's a big problem
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  in the BOP. Answer, Yeah, but I don't think that.
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  I mean, you've got some people in there. I mean
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  that don't work that don't know, you could be I've
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  seen people get arrested with good credit six figures making
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  six figures and do some corrupt stuff. So that's not it.
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  Question Okay, answer, I'm not saying take everyone. But you know,
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  it's like if you're renting to somebody and you a
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  landlord and you say, all right, I know you ain't
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  got the top score, but I see you pay your
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  bills on time. You had a little student loan debt
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  here or whatever. I'll give you a shot. Question, yeah, answer,
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  you know. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here,
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  and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
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  gonna pick up where we left off. All the information
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  that goes with this episode can be found in the
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  description box.