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36: How music ministers draw us closer to the Lord · Beyond The Beacon

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin Sweeney, a podcast of the Diocese of Patterson, New Jersey.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Join us for weekly conversations about our Catholic faith and submit questions for the Bishop today.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jay Agnish.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Bishop, good morning.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: How you doing?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: I am good, Jay.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: How are you doing this morning?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Doing well, thanks.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: What's new?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: What what's cooking?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, uh, we're getting close to Christmas uh here in our diocese.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um after the rains on Sunday evening and Monday, um, we know a lot of our Little Falls and um Lincoln Park and Wayne, um some areas uh upon Bequanic, right?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um so um thank God it seems like no loss of life.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: But um especially at this time of year for people who have to be out of their um homes.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: And uh there's some talk, it seems like it's the river's not receding yet, and now some of they're saying Friday, now someone seems to be saying Saturday.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: But um we thank our um uh first responders and police and fire who have been on the job and our city officials as well.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh month uh uh Patterson was affected.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Still no schools.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: The schools they were hoping will be reopened in Patterson on Thursday, but now it sounds like they're not gonna open again until after the new year.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: So um so we pray for um all those who are helping those impacted and those who have been impacted.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: And please, God, as many as possible be back home for uh by Sunday.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh if not for the fourth Sunday of Advent in the morning, by Christmas Eve in the afternoon.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so you we have that um quirk in the calendar every six or seven years where uh Christmas Eve falls on a Sunday, Christmas on a Monday.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so um actually we're gonna open with a prayer from the opening prayer of the first Sunday of Advent.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um but uh you know one of when we spoke about um our podcast, and uh one of the goals for having a podcast is being able to respond to things in in real time.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: And um we had a statement that came out from our Holy Father Pope Francis uh uh fiducia supplac supplicans that uh got some media attention, so maybe after we say a prayer we can uh and introduce our deck our guests, we can uh we can spend a few minutes on that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why don't we do the short introduction of our guests?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so Preston Dibble is our uh music uh he's a music director for the Diocese of Patterson, and Jen Banke to my left is a music minister at one of our parishes, and they they also do many other things in the in the music uh scene and and ministry within our diocese and our neighboring diocese and the archdiocese of Newark.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll get into that in a little bit.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: But hello to both of you.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning, good morning, thanks.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks a lot for being here.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So why don't yeah, why don't we open up with prayer and then we'll we'll get it.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um so the fourth Sunday of Advent, the opening prayer for Mass, um to some might be familiar, it's also words of a prayer that we use in the Angelus, uh, which some places prayed um uh at in the morning, midday and and evening.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and so um we'll uh in these days of Advent, um, these last days of Advent is looking forward to Christmas as the Lord's blessing upon us through the intercession of Mary, our Blessed Mother, and um pray for all those who are struggling at this time or in need.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um certainly continuing to pray for peace in our world.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: So let us place ourselves in God's presence in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: As we look forward to the birth of celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmas, we continue on this journey of Advent in these last days towards Sunday morning and looking forward to celebrating his birth and Christmas Eve and Christmas on Sunday evening and and Monday, and so we ask the help and blessing of the Lord as we pray.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: Pour forth, we beseech thee, O Lord, your grace into our hearts, that we to whom the incarnation of Christ your Son was made known by the message of an angel, may by his passion and cross be brought to the glory of his resurrection, who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so like I said, so Preston Dibble is our longtime director of of music for the Diocese of Patterson.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: He also works full-time at Our Lady of Sorrows in South Orange in our neighboring Archdiocese of Newark.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: As he likes to say, he's a dual citizen of Patterson and Newark.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: The same can be said of Jen Banke, our other guest, who is a part-time music coordinator at one of our parishes, Holy Spirit Church in Pequanock.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to Father Stephen.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So Jen is also the associate.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: She's also the associate director of evangelization for the Archdiocese of Newark, where I first got to know her.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: We worked uh basically next to each other on the second floor in Newark.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um she also produces and co-hosts the Heart of the Ark podcast.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll hopefully talk about that a little bit.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: We figured Christmas time, the Christmas concert was just happened uh the other day, which b both of them were participated in.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: And uh what better time to talk about Christmas carols and so much beauty in this season, uh, if we can uh stop and take the time to allow the church to lift our spirits um in so many ways, but certainly music is a beautiful way of um always praising God.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: But um in this time of year getting ready to celebrate the birth of Jesus at Christmas.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for being with us today.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so before we get into our discussion, Bishop, you did want to um make a reflection or a comment on what's happening in the news with the came from the Pope.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um we hear news in different ways, and um I think uh as I'm still learning as a bishop three years in, uh I think sometimes we get a heads up, but certainly not always, and um wasn't the case this time.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think when uh the news was shared, it was shared with everyone kind of simultaneously.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: And uh but if um those who have the opportunity to read both the it's called the declaration, there's kind of different levels of um communication that the church offers uh to the faithful um as part of its teaching or teaching authority and um and and ministry really.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um so um so uh this declaration comes as uh kind of an ongoing conversation.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: The word they they use the Latin word uh for question dubium, I believe it is, and uh some cardinals had submitted questions to the Holy Father a few months ago, and um at the beginning they talk about how the response some were very happy with the Holy Father's response, some had further questions, and so they went a little bit deeper um through the help of the used to be called Congregation for the Dyc um Doctrine of the Faith.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Now uh the Holy Father prefers uh Dicastry is the word that's used for kind of the offices that have different responsibilities.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: So um the document is called again fiducia supplicans, um the uh in the Latin, and it's on the pastoral meaning of blessing.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so my first actually um hearing about the document was I was in the ch our chancery office and one of his priests was in the office and the door was open, and I heard uh him say, Oh no, uh something like that.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: And um I just popped my head in and he said was reading something on his phone that says uh the Holy Father is um allowing the blessing of same-sex couples, I think.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um and certainly that was the the headline.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um that was Monday, um midday had something Monday afternoon.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Later in the afternoon, I was at our evangelization center and Father Paul Manning, or Vicar for Evangelization.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So just to clarify, he oh no, was we're gonna be getting calls from the media.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right, yes, yes.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um uh um exactly.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: So but uh and you know that sense of surprise, and sometimes okay, all right, how do we best deal with this now?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and uh sometimes our first reaction is um we need to take a breath, uh take some time to listen and reflect, and maybe it's not as bad.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And um uh whether it's this in particular or other things, um when we think something might be uh difficult or challenging that oh, maybe it's not you know as as as difficult or challenging as it might seem at first.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I see Father Manning at our evangelization center, and he says, Did you hear the state?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: I said I heard something.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: And um I said uh is the statement available?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: And he said it was, and uh he forwarded me the link, and I just had a long day on Monday, and I forget what was uh happening Monday evening.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh oh, I was in uh Vernon uh for part of the um Posadas or um the um Father Johan Serrano in the Spanish being community in Sussex County.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: This is the second year now they've done a novena.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think if there may be nine parishes in Sussex County and they go to a different one each day.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I was at St.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: Francis de Sales in Vernon with them for mass and a beautiful celebration on Monday evening and uh headed back to Paris, and I guess it was a little late and uh so again the next day uh it was a full day on Tuesday, and I by that time I gotten some emails about and I think there are very faithful people in the church that whether it be the Holy Father or the Cynodal Experience or um some other maybe voices, um as we talk about being in welcoming church and we talk about those who have a same sex attraction and you know what's often referred to now as the LGBT community and LGBTQ and um uh I I know this I hear from faithful Catholics who are concerned that the Holy Father might be changing the teaching or um I think we gotta take the time to listen because um When there's a nine-page document which which you write, and it does not change any teaching.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: It it's um some say there's new things in it.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not so sure.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um but one of the those the previous kind of uh question and answer was about blessing same-sex couples, and the Holy Father's response was we can't.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we uh and if you take the time to read the document, um the that reflection on what what it what it means to ask for a blessing and receive a blessing and give a blessing as a and a minister of the church to give a blessing, um we have to be careful about that.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: We we wouldn't bless something that goes against what uh God asks of us.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um but at the same time, and it's really one of the beautiful parts of the document, what does it mean when someone asks for a blessing?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't there something there that's saying, God, can you be more present in my life?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Can you give me some help?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh how should we respond to that?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um He talks about humility and um it's easier to talk about humility, it's another thing to live it.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: I I they quote a beautiful um part of Matthew's gospel where Jesus says, Blessed are you, Lord God of heaven and earth, for what you have revealed, what you have hidden from the wise and the learned, you have revealed to the merest of children, calling us to that to humility.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then he goes on to say, Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, um, and I will give you rest.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: Learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: So um uh there are again faithful uh Catholics who um I believe uh understand the importance of that humility and mercy.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and love is always to the truth sets us free and we have to share the truth in love.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: And some might say if we focus too much on mercy or the person you know struggling, whatever it might be, uh if it's something that goes against the teaching of the church, well the most loving thing is to say, you know, you're doing something wrong, that tough love.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: And um on one level, certainly an objective level, um that's true, and and and um but make sure that the love is there and and that the person knows that he or she is loved.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: So um uh we'll spend more time on another, but uh maybe we can put up a link, but I I just encourage it's slow reading.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a slow reader myself, and uh nine pages might take me a long time, but um it's worth it.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and um you know it separates the liturgical blessing, a ceremony, it and it it it reaffirms again.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think five of the first nine chapters of paragraphs uh talk about what we believe about marriage, that's the union between a man and a woman that's given to us by God and and the and the and the magisterium, the teaching of the church and the scriptures, and um, and it's it's so clear that that's that's what marriage is, and we know in our society and culture others think differently about what marriage is, but the the teaching of the church is clear and and it's clear in the document.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: And um the other maybe last thing, um having been a parish priest uh and kind of walking that journey and meeting people and families, and you know, um we think of faithful Catholics parents who have a son who has or daughter who has the same-sex attraction and um and may even be choosing to live um in a in a union a same-sex union.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um we we need to be together on the journey and and and we need to remember that every person is a beautiful and beloved child of God, and um and and that's expressed in the document as well.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but um the the the the request for a blessing is an opportunity for the minister, especially as a priest, to engage someone who's asking for that blessing in a in a conversation.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: And um so um there's a lot there, we can talk more about it, but I uh I wanted to end uh lastly, second lastly, uh an experience I've had throughout my life when we go back and look not at what others say the church says or uh even what others say the Holy Father said, um, but we go to the words itself in the magisterium teaching catechism or in the in this case the words of the Holy Father.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's so encouraging and uplifting, I find.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I again I understand the concern uh from some, but um, but I I encourage if anyone is is concerned to go Fiducio Suplican, you'll find it on the internet, we'll put the link up there.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we'll have a link to the internet.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Take the time to read it, and uh and maybe in another episode we'll be able to come back and spend more time with it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: But uh now we can uh move towards uh the joy of the season and uh but yet uh it's it's all part of uh the word being made flesh and dwelling amongst us, being born in Bethlehem and sharing the good news of salvation, and and that's what this is part of as well.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: So um so just wanted to take that time.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing and to take a hard pivot.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you uh do you have a favorite Christmas carol, Bishop?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to pose this question to all our guests.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe that's a good way to kick off our conversation.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Cecile Paderulu, our um media specialist has been doing some work on asking people their favorite Christmas carols.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I was supposed to uh do a little video um a couple days ago, but as you can tell, I'm getting over a bit of a cold.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: But um my voice was worse two days ago, so uh apologize if it's a little tough at the moment, but uh I I have to go with uh a tie.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: I can't between the two.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we'll let you off the hook with a tie.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Silent night uh and oh holy night.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know the variations on the theme maybe, but uh as they all have many are.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: But um but those um um Oh holy night, the stars are brightly shining.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: This is the night of the new Savior's birth.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Lonely the world in sin and ever parting till he appeared, and the soul felt its worth.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's one thing to hear those beautiful words, it's another thing to hear them sung by a a beautiful voice, and um uh and uh and so um I've shared before that I my first came to get to know Christmas carols when I was uh I had a paper out and riding my bicycle in the cold delivering papers, trying to do anything to not think about how cold it was.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh my the first the songs I knew were Christmas carols.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'd be 5 30 or 6 in the morning writing singing Christmas carols.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: So uh Queens.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Whitestone, that's right, yes, yes, delivering papers.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think hopefully there weren't too many people who could hear me at that time out in the street.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: So uh but uh so but I've always been a big fan of Christmas carols.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what about what about you guys?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: What uh I don't know if I can say I have an actual favorite.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: I mean there's there's just so many, and as a you know, as a musician, we we I always try to get as many as I can into the Christmas season um because everybody has kind of one that they like, but um there are just so many different Christmas carols in all of our collections and hymnals and sure and things we use in our well could I pose it to you a different way?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: How when you are putting together the the Christmas concert, which you direct, right, at the cathedral every year, how do you line up the movie?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's an interesting question.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's I think a number of carols which just kind of have to be in there.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_04: We have to sing Solid Night and we have to sing Ocome Oye Faithful.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_04: And um but beyond I guess those two, so maybe those are my favorites.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um I try to include different carols each year, so there's uh a slightly different feel on the program each year.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe after coming to four or five concerts, you can hear all the carols.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And Jen, you had not one but two solos in the Christmas concert this year.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had one, I had one solo and one where my voice kind of uh carried a little bit.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was the Sussex Carol, though, and you said you were in Vernon last night.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's my hometown.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm from Our Lady Fatima on the hill in Penal Lake.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um uh but so it it was in the Sussex Carol.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Preston allowed the Soprano 2s to take the the theme, and I was very proud of being able to sing the Sussex Carol from Sussex County.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um I would say But I I presume that goes back to Sussex in England, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Originally, originally, right, right, yeah, right.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, of course it does.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's not but we have we love our own Sussex here in the U.S.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Of course you had a beautiful night in Vernon because it's beautiful.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: It sure is, it sure is.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I uh I would it's hard for me to say what my favorite uh carol is.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I too put together a uh a concert um at as a parish musician, and there are certain things that not only that you want, you know that the the community needs to sing, right?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And something that you said before, Bishop, is that like you need to be affirmed in the word, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when I'm choosing the carols, I really am thinking about what are the words that the people in front of me, this community needs to hear for this season.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm I'm gonna be ministering my first Christmas in Pekwanic.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is the first time that I'm thinking about, like like you said, there there's been a trag there's been a tragic event that's affected my neighbors in my congregation.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So how do I, you know, decide what these people, where their hearts are right now?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I take a lot of that to prayer.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: I spend a lot of time in prayer before I choose music for the pe for the discipleship of the people, right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: Discernment, uh, and uh what does God want to say and the words of the Christmas carols?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: I I stopped listening to quote unquote Christmas music on the radio because sadly it seems that our culture um will sing Frosty the Snowman and Santa Claus and Jingle Bells and the the songs with Jesus, which is the reason that we're singing, uh, don't seem to be there.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: They seem to have taken them out of the rotation.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: And um it's great the season, it's wonderful, a lot of wonderful things about it.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh um, but where what what what where did it all come from?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: What's it all about?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I uh now in the playlists, like on Spotify playlist, I was listening on the way here in the car.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: They say Christmas classics, right, is like the new term, and and then yeah, it's like intermingled.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: You got you got all this stuff about materialism and sprinkled right in there, and all that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, all of the songs will stop playing on December 26th.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right when we're about to start the 12 days of Christmas.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Preston.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's the other thing when you were saying, uh, I think encouraging um uh even choices and and and as you said, Jen, the um parish music minister's um pet peeve of mine, but and uh we can sing Christmas carols uh right through the epiphany, right?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the Christmas season, the eight days of Christmas and uh and and the season.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so um when the Sunday after Christmas, I would sometimes go when I was the vocation director or did uh and to hear uh songs that are not about that are not Christmas.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: uh uh on the Sunday after Christmas uh we only got 15 days or so to sing these songs we have this treasure of um Hark the Harold Angel sings uh uh you know oh the uh the first Noel uh um so many uh that uh the words are are are the words of scripture brought to you know brought to life through music and and and can touch our hearts and souls and uh but uh you've been doing this for some time now huh person?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yes I've been with the diocese since uh 2013 um but I've been doing music ministry since I was in college so it's but I I really feel it's a it's a calling it's a vocation it's a very unique job with uh rather odd hour requests uh compared to to other jobs even within music uh but it can it's really nothing more fulfilling when the assembly is singing and sometimes on that you know 23rd Sunday of ordinary time they might not know all four hymns or be so inspired to sing them but everyone can be inspired on Christmas to sing Joy to the world silent light that's right faithful and and it's a th it's a thrilling experience because it's you know for those who are music directors in parishes but even for those parishioners who are part of music ministry and the choirs and ensembles and cantors they put in so much time um to prepare music for their communities um and I just love when it all comes together on Christmas and the entire communities singing together.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And what would And you that was certainly the case um um Friday evening at the cathedral you did a great job and uh the combination of the Dawson choir and some of the other voices and the very talented um musicians uh and also uh the large children's choir at our cathedral was uh right right yeah building a building a big uh program there for children's voices yeah right and I think that hearing children sing also touches people's heart in a in a special way absolutely you know they had I was reflecting on it and they especially when they got to those two rudder pieces um the John John Rudder those the beauty of the earth I love yes but they they really um used uh the entire range of their vocal I I as I I've been a uh children's music uh director for for a long time I'm just actually it's Preston who told me you know what you can you could be an adult choir director too so I have most of my recent career too thank to Preston actually um before that I was just a singer who they let uh conduct the kids.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: And how long when did you get your start even singing?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sixth grade at Our Lady of Fatima Father Aloysius Bush said if you can sing on Eagle's wings at your grandma grandfather's funeral you can sing on Sunday morning.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: So he pushed me down in front of the congregation with the organ in the loft by the time I was in sixth grade.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh beautiful yeah so I've been a I've been a a cantor for a very long time I won't tell you how many years.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Jen can you tell us a story about when Pope Benedict came in 2008 what were you what were you doing then?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah well um that was kind of a very uh up you know I I I was I've been a cantor I was a children's choir director I was at a parish on the upper east side of New York City at um St.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Joe's Yorkville um on uh 87th and first um and I um was a cantor and I had be had kids and I had had some health problems and I would I I had to get back into singing and I just wanted to sing back in my town of Newark you know in the Newark Archdiocese.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to go back to choir singing and like God if you can get me better enough to be in the church choir again.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got a call almost a year after I had this last surgery to the day that Pope Benedict was going to be doing an afternoon ecumenical reflection at the parish where I just baptized my kids and I was a children's choir director.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was just on leave from that and they said and we want you to canter so I got to in a very small like you know I was it was incredible.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was really incredible.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was like you know you sometimes you have those God moments where you ask God for one little thing and you know I just wanted to go back to my parish choir in the Newark Archdiocese.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: You went back in a big way and and you know oh by the way Pope Francis Pope Benedict is coming to your parish and you're going to be singing for him.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you know when when does that happen?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen unless it's a God thing, right?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm thinking this is uh maybe our last podcast of the year and uh I oh I wanted to mention just again aside just go back to the the uh Holy Fathers statement um bishop Michael Burbage um I've shared before is uh uh Bishop of Arlington Virginia and he has a great podcast um uh um walk humbly the Walk Humbly podcast and uh he did a great job uh speaking about the Holy Fathers document uh he's been a bishop a little longer than I have and uh he um he's very um a great messenger of the gospel and um uh well they did we're talking about uh looking back on the year and uh maybe we'll do that at some point but uh uh he one of the things he mentioned was it's hard to believe um it was um New Year's Eve New Year's Day last year when uh Paul Benedict passed away that um uh so it's gonna be the first anniversary of his passing and um so uh time goes by very very quickly.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um and um and there's another podcast you've been listening to Hark right can you love at that time I think part of American media uh the uh um uh the Jesuit um uh media group and uh uh they for this their third season now they take different Christmas carols and uh give the background and story that behind them and where they came from and uh it's uh it's it all throughout the world different places uh you mentioned the Sussex Carol they the apparently the best known carol from Ireland is the Wexford Carol uh so um there was a good episode about that yeah so I I've noted there's a request for the Wexford Carol next year's concert great great great thank you the Hagenberg setting is awesome and if I may um Jen as I mentioned has a has a podcast um the Heart of the Ark and you Thanks for the plug and Father John Gordon right who's the what's his title he's he's the Secretary for Evangelization for the Archized and you you just had him on and you were talking about Christmas carols and and looking deep into like the the verses beyond the first verses.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so so uh thank you we we uh spoke about the you know the first verses can be for the kids and Christmas you know when you first look at it like a lot of people say oh Christmas is for the kids but um when you as you mentioned when you when you look at the second verse of of Oh Holy Night and you get to chains shall he break for the slave is our brother right that's right like those are such powerful words.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um no matter where we are in our in our spiritual journey right like if we take the time to take the the all four verses right and the second and third verses of silent night as well magnificent.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: In the in um what's the other one?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: It came upon a midnight clear right like it tell talks about how we're still struggling 2,000 years later right in this world of darkness.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like so you know there's so many times when um I know Preston does this because I read his his program um but I I I also did this in my in my uh my little parish I encouraged the people to take the worship aid home and read you know like if you if you if you don't know where to start in a prayer, you know, just open your hymnal and read all four verses or all eight verses of you know of the Father's love begotten or or these Oh come Ocumani the the Oantiphons which are very much a part of the church's use yeah use them as meditations use them as like where am I in my spiritual journey and how how can I let God love me as his child you know so that that was kind of the the the impetus of our our our episode so thanks thanks it was a good one.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes and great job on the podcast Preston that you mentioned you got started in college in music ministry.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yes I actually uh grew up in the Methodist church and went to college thinking I was going to be a high school choir teacher uh but uh came across the organ as an undergraduate student and was where were you studying undergraduate?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Westminster College in New Wilmington, Pennsylvania.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_04: It was a Presbyterian liberal arts college and immediately just fell in love with the instrument and its capability and didn't really even know that music ministry could be a a calling.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: I just grew up in a very small town in western Pennsylvania.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I changed my concentration to organ and I began working in a Catholic parish um and then felt my call to the faith uh through through music ministry and through the instrument and you know went on for graduate studies in sacred music.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_04: Wonderful um yeah I kind of really had a a life change I guess if you will when I was an undergraduate student.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: And coming out of college uh what did you get a um a a a position in music ministry pretty quickly?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_04: I was working uh in a parish uh while I was an undergraduate student then I went to Duquesne University in Pittsburgh for graduate studies and kind of moved to a different parish um a little closer to Pittsburgh and then shortly after that you know made a move to New Jersey where I've been since uh 2005.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if um Preston and maybe Jen as well you could talk about um parish music ministry life, um the significance, the importance of music in the liturgy Yeah it's a it's a great time of year to talk about that.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_04: Because what would Christmas be without Christmas carols?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_04: You know and sometimes I think we forget about the importance of music's role in the liturgy but there's no time like Christmas where we can remind that.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_04: And it's been it's been difficult um in a lot of aspects of our life coming out of the pandemic but certainly music ministry has been greatly affected.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_04: There's you know budgetary cutbacks and for a while we thought singing was dangerous so we stopped doing it.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: And you know people, the the faithful who were part of our choirs and part of our music ministries became scared to sing or simply developed different patterns in their life you know so parish choirs are smaller but seeing it come back and I'm starting to see it in my own parish and seeing in the diocesan concert um you know people are starting to return and realize how much they need that human connection in in music either from the pew or from the choir chair but there's there's just a a connectedness that that happens when you sing together.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Two things make me think of um parish music ministry uh I always say uh I started to say that I think everyone should go to a a a Parish Christmas concert or a children's Christmas concert at one point before Christmas because there's there's always a moment where and and many of them are combined with a nativity scene or uh a a play and uh again Jesus says we have to be like children and uh and and and and that's can be such a beautiful part both children and adults in in terms of parish life and as it was affected as we were certainly affected by the pandemic but and and the many many challenges and difficult and still are overcoming them but but perseverance right I mean uh just two ways that I think um music persevered uh people went online and you could do those some of those those choirs that came together in the boxes on the Zoom not the ideal but but it was people connecting and and certainly music does does bring us together.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think even coming to the diocese in year two um seeing choirs um and people singing with masks you know and they were singing through the mass not the far from the ideal but yet the the perseverance was there.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right right right and then the other thing um uh forget what triggered it now but uh Father Alphon Stevenson um wow uh oh I I wasn't sure if I had heard about him when it came during the pandemic and he did these great concert uh a priest of the Patterson diocese was a military chaplain for many years he's retired now but boy is he full of energy I um he he he's been working with this chorus or orchestra for St.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: Peter by the sea since 1986 37 years and uh he was kind enough to send me his schedule for December I think they had like 12 different dates of concerts and um I was able to go this past Saturday to Convent Station the Sisters of Charity at the beautiful Holy Family Chapel on the campus of St.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Elizabeth University and it was sold out and Father Alphonse led this um beautiful beautiful concert and boy what what a gift he has and uh like yourself person that um one who brings them all together and and and directs and uh the the the musicians and the voices uh it's so beautiful uh it's it really is you know they the saints talking about when we sing we pray twice uh I think it's three times five times a hundred times you know the what what what what music can do um but but yeah I think um certainly as Jay was uh I want to give Jen a chance to talk about that experience of parish ministry and music ministry and it can do so much and as you say this is a a great time of year for it right yeah there's a Guardian article um that I just shared on my social medias yesterday that talked about the physical and emotional changes in us when we sing together as a community right so a community is uh immediately bonded together when they breathe together in inhale and exhale right and if we think about the ways I'm a singer I I I never approach the organ organ.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: I leave it to the professionals and when I approach the piano I do it with a whole lot of asking of humility and forgiveness um and the Holy Spirit to guide my fingers because my my fingers don't do what my voice can do.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: If they did I'd be a different person but it doesn't work so I've tried a long time.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank God for Miss Omira for putting up with me for piano lessons St.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Paul talks about different gifts same right I have not the gift in my fingers it didn't get that far.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: But um you know there's a difference between and and Preston alluded to it between a professional musician outside of music ministry and a professional musician within music ministry and I think it comes back to uh humility you know and you know it would be easier for Preston and I to use our professional gifts and just give a finished product with all all paid singers, all paid ringers, all and just do it all up.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And yet you have to use the gifts of the community.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be able to bring people in and the because the collective voice of the community is so integral.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: How many of our best singers um and I'm sure musicians came out of the even whether it's the Catholic Church or some other Christian or other even denominations but that uh the that experience of a child a young person getting to know music right for the first time and uh getting their first kind of self-confidence that you as you said being pushed up in sixth grade, right?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh and uh and and how many professionals I wonder musicians and singers got their start somewhere in church right and and maybe if if it wasn't in church they they may not have realized the gifts and talents they have right and I think I think that by using the gifts and talents of the people you give the people in your pews the voice to do all of the mission work right like all of the work in a parish has to be they have to feel like their voices their talents everything's so I'm the type of mu singer who doesn't want to necessarily get up and lead the congregation.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get up and bring the congregation to sing their best.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know that is my my goal is always to be the lead the least loud singer in the room which is hard.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: So drown me out like right do your best drown me out and uh uh you I guess all directors would um or leaders of are are looking for that balance to yeah share the gifts of those who have the training and experience to to lead but uh not to overpower because the that full act of participation right that the Second Vatican Council calls for um the the the the whole community gathered to be the choir right in in the pew and in the choir.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah I'm you know I'm fortunate to have the resources both in my parish and certainly with diocesan functions to be able to have a couple of professional singers to supplement but the goal is not to overpower but rather to support and and bring the voice out of the faithful.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that wasn't I I I just from an evangelization standpoint right so that's the other hat I wear um Christmas is such a great evangelization moment right because you have everybody who um comes to church is they don't let's just be honest not everybody comes every Sunday okay so and then you have the people your volunteers in your choir who have traditions of their own it's their own Christmas right so you need opportunities you need you need to be able to ensure that the quality is there no matter if it's the 8 a.m mass or the midnight mass that the quality is there regardless of the mass.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that obviously you're gonna have people around that all those who attend would have a good experience of shared prayer and um yeah um and hopefully be feel welcomed back.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly exactly just want to give a quick plug so you're both a part of a uh professional music association the national pastoral musicians right and I know um Preston you're pretty you have a pretty significant role within that organization.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah NPM is the um kind of professional association that supports um music in Catholic parishes throughout the United States um we're approximately 4,000 members I think right now and we have chapters in about half of the diocese uh in the country Patterson being one um my role with NPM currently is I oversee basically all of the national programming for the association.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_04: So when we have an annual convention in the summer um of different pastoral musicians, organists, pianists, cantors, choir members, ensemble leaders um all come together um for a week of music making and prayer and learning and camaraderie um you know to support each other.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I kind of oversee that programming and shape what that looks like.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Locally um we've just made Jennifer the uh chapter director here in Patterson so we're gonna try to work together to try and make uh that a a voice of support for um parish musicians uh here in the Disney and that chapter's been dormant you're it's been you're trying to revitalize it good so shout out to N NPM um okay so bishop anything else for our for our guests before we kind of wind down towards the end of the episode just to thank them for not only for being here today but for your ministry and Preston for all the years that so 10 years now with the diocese, right?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah I think this was the 11th uh Christmas concert actually counting the other day right uh and Jen uh um uh we always want to be good neighbors and uh the great relationship between our diocese and the RSI Newark and uh the you're uh you're doing great work on your podcast thanks you're welcome to I will invite you anytime you get to uh but uh we don't have as nice of a setup um Father Stephen Frisk the pastor has talked about uh all that you've brought to uh Holy Spirit in Pekanic and uh well he's a great asset to the community yes and um so please God uh all those affected by the flooding will be um back in their homes as soon as possible but uh um yeah thank you and um we certainly look forward to uh singing raising our voices in song to celebrate the the joy of the newborn king right so thank you both so much for for coming on and Bishop I'm gonna give you the last word anything else on your mind anything you're looking forward to obviously Christmas just being a few few days away you're gonna have a special so uh just to mention one other um uh maybe um podcast but uh I I posted earlier in the week this past weekend I listened to um Jesuitical and they um interviewed a a mom and and wife actually the wife of the parish priest in in Bethlehem the he's an Eastern Catholic priest so in the eastern church the priests are able to marry she's an American I believe I think they met in a uh when she was traveling in a uh a monastery someplace and um but I think they have three children now and um you know Bethlehem is deserted because of the the war that's going on in in the Holy Land and um and if you have a chance maybe we can put up the link.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's it's on my uh social media uh but it's about fifteen or twenty minutes the the interview and uh to hear how the faith remains and hope remains and um and love in the midst of such you know devastation and loss and um they're gonna be celebrating Christmas in a very very toned down way from other years and they are coming out of the pandemic as well.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: Excuse me they were looking forward to expecting you know before October 7th um that this would be a that Bethlehem would be filled for Christmas and that's not going to be the case but um uh you know as we the music and and the word of God um brings us to to Bethlehem and hear the glad tidings of great joy from the angels that the shepherds heard and we follow them and encounter the child wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger there in the city of David in Bethlehem.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's the Prince of Peace and so um we pray for peace and uh and and um last thing and perhaps most importantly to wish all of our listeners and and watchers, viewers uh but all those in our diocese uh thanking our priests for their work and all of our leaders and religious and um special word to families and and also those maybe who are alone at Christmas uh as a as a church we're not alone we're we're united in prayer and so just to um offer to each member of the church of our diocese uh and each family um and each parish uh a very very blessed and joyful um and and and and merry christmas uh and and many blessings in the new year thank you bishop merry christmas to all and um thank you again to our guests and thank you all for spending time with us and get to know us a little better by following beyond the beacon on Facebook or Instagram I hope you'll join us for the next episode don't forget to subscribe comment and leave a positive rating if you're watching on Bishop Kevin Sweeney's YouTube channel be sure to like subscribe and ring the bell for notifications email questions and podcast topic ideas for the bishop to beyond at patternsondiocese.org.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you merry Christmas God bless you