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JUST SA KwaZulu-Natal - Dr Bonginkosi Dlamini · TIPS Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast, Tips Talk, the show where we delve into the fascinating world of economics and its impact on global development.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Tobanique, and today we are asking why is it important for local and provincial government officials to understand the impact of climate change and the imperative to decarbonize our economy as well as make the transition just.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: We are finding ourselves today in Durban, Guazaluna Town.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: We see how government officials can turn policy into action.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lovely guest with me today by the name of Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Bonginkosi Lamini.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Can you please introduce yourself to our audience?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Dr.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Bonginkosi Robert Lamini.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I am the chief director responsible for environmental management in the province of Wazul Natal.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Could you also tell us maybe your day-to-day responsibilities?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: My responsibilities as a chief director.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's only that our structure in the province is, you know, it reduces what we do.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: When you are a chief director environment at the provincial level, you are a leader.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: You are leading the entire sector within the province.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: That is the environmental sector.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Then my responsibilities, one, I am responsible for the unit that deals with environmental planning and climate change in a province.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: We work with the municipalities in terms of providing support on climate change issues, developing response climate change plans, and also dealing with issues of the ITPs, providing inputs on ITPs and ensuring that environmental issues are captured in each and every ITP of the municipality in the province.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: The second responsibility that I do in the province, I am also leading the unit that is called Environmental Empowerment Management Services.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: That is a unit that deals with the capacity building of our communities in the province, providing environmental awareness campaigns in the province, celebrating those, you know, the environmental days in the province.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: That is the task that is done by the company within my responsibility.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Coupled to that, we have another unit that deals with biodiversity and coastal management.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: That unit, what it does, in the province we have Asmvel, which is our entity responsible for biodiversity.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: But internally as ATIA, meaning economic development and tourism, what we then do on the area that deals with biodiversity, we focus more on the issue of the aliens.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: We focus more on eradicating alien species in the province.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's a program that we run in the province with a funding of not less than 70 million a year, which we then try by all means that we satisfy in each and every corner of the province of Wazoo Natal, including the rural municipalities which are mostly in the north of Wazoo Natal.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Then we also look at the issue of coastal, where we work with some agencies in terms of managing our coastlines in the province, also ensuring that the coastal pollution in the province is dealt with.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: That is the responsibility that falls within my responsibility.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Even terms of developing extra and management plans in the province, that is the responsibility which falls within my periphery.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Then we have the unit that deals with environmental quality management, that is air quality management, that is waste management, that is environmental impact management.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Project that will also ensure that we protect the environment, a project that will also ensure that at least at the end of the day, we also create jobs.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Communities are feeling being part and parcel of our development in the province.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Then we also look at the issue of waste management.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Waste management, we are then working with the municipalities, ensuring that we are dealing with the issue of waste, cleaning the province, meeting the targets of the climate change strategy that was issued by the national department.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: We are part of that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: We have the same commitments that we have made as a province to ensure that we are also able to fulfill requirements and support the national department in terms of meeting the targets in terms of the climate change strategy.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Then we have air quality issues in the province.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: We know we're at the coast of Fazunatal, we have the Harper, which is in that harper is dealing with the dry bulk products, it's receiving a lot of cold, issues of air quality as a problem.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: You go to the central around Newcastle, issues of the mines there, a lot of dust coming to Turban.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: We have issues of air quality.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Then we have to ensure that we have air quality stations in the province which are then placed at strategic areas to ensure that they are measuring or they're able to capture what is happening in each and every corner of the province around the issues of air quality.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Those stations are funded by the province, and the province has to ensure that those stations are functional.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: But we are working in collaboration with the municipality to ensure the sustainability of those air quality stations.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: But that is what then these units are doing.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last component that I'm also leading in in the province is compliance monitoring and enforcement.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is the component that is now with ensuring with the monitoring the compliance of environmental laws across all these subprograms within environmental management.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then we need to ensure that municipalities are complying with the laws of the country.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: We need to ensure that landfill sites that we have in the province are complying, are able to operate it within the framework of the law.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: We need to ensure that a municipality's infrastructure is not causing any coastal pollution in the province.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then this unit is people doing that monitoring compliance.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: When there is a blatant desire not to comply with the laws of a country, then we have the unit that is enforcing the laws of the country.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that is being implemented by the criminal investigators who are investigating these cases.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they once they are done, then they take the entire tocket now and hand it over to now to NPA or to TPP in the province of Wazunatar.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: But this is what we do then as a province, which is not just a small thing to do.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's more work which then dictates that you cannot furnish it with one chief director.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: You need someone that will come and add value into this.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you cannot be each and every corner in the province at the same time.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, very difficult.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: But as for now, this is what we are doing in the province.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: We can see the result.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: We can see some cases that we have taken against some transgressors in the province.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Some we have got a court judgment that we that we have received.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: We are very positive in terms of the department, which shows that we are doing very fine.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Looking at the issue of disasters, we can see that municipalities were able to respond to these natural disasters in terms of the climate change response plans that we have developed.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But there is a lot of work that our province still has to implement going forward in collaboration with all other partners, including the nation and also with NGOs, the province.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a great interest even from the international communities in the FPK to work with us through our premier's office.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: They are working with us.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like every year we are participating to New York Climate Change Week.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Every year for the past three years, we we've been doing it.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we can see the positive response that we are getting, where we're receiving some international funding, which we are then giving now to these municipalities to implement some of the climate change adaptation programs in the province of talk.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: But this is work that I'm doing, I do in the province, working with the relevant directors in the province.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's a lot, Doctor.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's really a lot.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, thank you.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the issue of the just transition, the just part.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the workshop we attended, it was a very interesting workshop that we attended, I think 23, 24.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what we are doing in the province is that we are considered that I was Natal is very diverse.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very interesting province in terms of our municipalities.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: As you go towards the north of Wazunatal, meaning from Utugela towards the border of Wazunatal toward the north, we have two municipalities that is we have Zululand district and Umkanyagute.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Those are pure rural municipalities.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: As you move toward the central of Wazoon Natal, that is around Ladysmith, around Dundee and Newcastle, yes, they're also rural, but there are those which are, you know, in the meatly, you can you can't say they are urban, but at least they are not like pure rural ones.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you go toward the south.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: South is mainly, you know, urban because you have the metro, which is a teguini.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as we are trying to ensure that these communities from the different municipalities, including the rural and these urban ones, we need to ensure that they are part and parcel of our programs that we implement in the province.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you are talking about just, we need to ensure that whatever that we implement, moving away from the traditional way of doing things, they are included, they are being considered as a stakeholder that can play the bigger part.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what we then do when you implement our program is that as we intend to commence with a project, we need to ensure that when we draft our policies, our policies are ensuring that they are inclusive, we consider the rural communities as being part of the stakeholders or the beneficiaries of those projects.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: If we indeed we are saying, as was Natal, we are moving away from the coal and we want to consider doing uh maybe going for the alternatives.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think from the Department of Minerals, has received an approval now to say they can generate their own electricity.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now it means a Tewini, they need to ensure that if then there were beneficiaries who are benefiting from the old system, now they're supposed to benefit from the new thought way of doing things.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: As a province, we are saying then one, even in terms of the our document of our terms of reference, we need to ensure that the rural communities or the poor communities are part and parcel of those decisions.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: They are going to benefit, they are not left outside because otherwise it would then mean our projects are not going to be sustainable.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: As we are doing that, we are engaging with Salka because Salka, they are the ones who are having an upper hand when it comes to the municipalities, even in terms of the policies, in terms of the pilots, influencing the pilots.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: We ensure that Salka they are actually influencing that.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: All what we are doing as a province is to come to them and say, guys, this is what we are doing, this is what we are required to do in terms of the Climate Change Act.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: You need to develop your response plans, but those plans have to be very inclusive in terms of ensuring that everyone benefits.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: As we are engaging with U National, UN National Department UTFP, we are working very, very close with them.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: As we are working with them, we work through the working groups, mintech working groups.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: From those working groups, all the discussion they will then escalate to a level where the HODs meet.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Guasu Natal is also participating at the mintech level.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Me-tech level, when this decision I made, we are trying to ensure that the issues that pertain the issue of just energy transition, they are also captured.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: They have to come because in terms of the policy framework, we don't develop a policy as a problem, but the policy comes from the national department.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: We are then implementing that policy.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: It must then come from the national department.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: But all the our programs that we're doing, we are working very closely with the national department.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: We are working very closely with all the NTOs in the province of Azul Natal.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: We have the NTOs that are very vocal in terms of equality.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you go towards the north, there is an RPCAA association that is Research Pay Association, led by Send Kaminga.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: She is one that is a very vocal activist when it comes to equality issues.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Then you go towards the South, South Tepan, we have the guys like ABO Desmontisal leading the Abo Tepan Alliance.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the guys that are fighting for the environmental sustainability.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: What we are doing is we listen to them and we take their views and we ensure that those views are being considered, even when we are developing our own standards to manage the EAA projects, we are ensuring to say people they must not be maybe placed in areas where they will be exposed to maybe to disasters and so forth, but to all the issues that we related now to climate change.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Then when we issue the decision in the province, the issues of climate change are at a highest level.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: We have to consider to say when you craft the record of decisions, you craft the authorization, you must ensure that you cover areas and you ensure that people are protected, people that are living closer to areas which are prone to disasters.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have ensured that the conditions are very strict and conditions are very direct in terms of protecting those individuals.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Even some of the areas that we have realized that are falling within Makosi, but through the authorization, we are able to take to direct to say if a developer wants to make or consider a development, but you must consider the following.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: We must ensure that these are the things that are already laid on the ground, these are the things that have to be considered.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: But all that we are doing, we are saying, let us protect the individuals through our authorization, let us protect the poor people through each and every document that we issue, through any development that we are implementing, we need to ensure that the beneficiaries should be then be the people who are maybe the poor people who are disadvantaged in terms of the decision-making processes.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, okay.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like you are really working hard here in KZN.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my last question is can you just share any just transition challenges or opportunities for your municipality or province that you see?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: For us as Iwasunatal, let us take the areas of, as I've indicated, the central part of Wazunatal.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: That is down the area, Newcastle, and you look at maybe at uh Ladysmith, which are mostly mine areas.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then you go down to the north, Mkanyagute, there is an area there called Wasom Kele.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a mine there is called Somkele mine.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: When this project, I mentioned the central because you know, and you are mentioning this project, and you're saying, guys, here is the mine, it's going to be developed.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: When they are doing their scoping and everything exercise, people are promised jobs, and everyone is waiting for this thing now to come.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: As a result, when the NTOs raising fundamental issues in relation to the public participation process, people were then divided.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: People fought to kill each other.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: There are people who died at Som Kaleman.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because people they were divided by the principal who saying people they were looking at the jobs, others they were trying to make sense out of the saying, hey, but while we are focused on the jobs, can we then also look at other social issues?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Can we also look at also environmental issues?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, where I'm going with this now to say we have this new concept, the church transition.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now we are saying maybe let us rethink, let us consider alternatives.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: But where?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Here is the mind, the mind is at Mtubatuba.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now you are talking about the church transition.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: We know we must consider an alternative.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: But where can you have that alternative?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna be etimtubatuba?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, now the alternative because of the climatic environment at Mtubatuba.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't favor any alternative.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: For example, there is no wind energy that you can think of that you can implement at Mtubatuba, even in terms of temperature, you can't.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: It means the just is it a chart for the people at Mtubatuba?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is not for the Mtubatuba people, it might benefit somebody else.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now we are then saying, how then do we deal with this?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: For us, it becomes a challenge because we have the old which we have become comfortable with it, benefiting out of it.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: It has been the cold.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Tubatuba, there is so much cold just from Keller.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the moment you are bringing in this just thing, people now they are waiting to hear what you're gonna offer them as an alternative if you are saying now the mine now we must reduce.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because now we know we cannot so we do away with the cold, but we can reduce.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: But now, as you reduce it, where are we putting more emphasis?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do we have it within ituba?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, because the climate, the climatic, the environment, it does in favor of the alternatives.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for us, we see this as a huge challenge that if we really talk about the just, but can we localize this just?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Can it be the just that talks about my people?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: If now I'm the municipality manager, can it be the just that can benefit my people?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is it possible?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: It is not because this is look at a broader scale.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: As for me, as a manager to municipality, I cannot stand up and then try to convince my people, yes, now we have the mind, but we are gonna be reducing our focus or operation now.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna be moving where where are we moving?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are we not moving to rich as pay?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: If they need to move to rich pay, who's gonna be benefiting?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Surely it's not gonna be Mam Kwanazi, Mam Kiz, who reside within Mtuba Tuba.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be somebody who resides around rich as pay.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how then do we balance that?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: How then do we balance these benefits?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: How to ensure that the original beneficiaries will still remain as beneficiaries downstream.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, it becomes really a challenge.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, of course, if I'm talking now as a chief director for environment at a provincial level, I am no longer now looking at the local municipality.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking at a provincial level.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: For as long as yes, it will move from point A to point B, but within the province, for me, yes, it is indeed a just transition because at a provincial level, it is benefiting people of Wazunata.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I can tell you as we zoom in and you come closer for the real beneficiaries who were the original people who were identified from the commencement of that project.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Surely I can tell you downstream there are no longer the beneficiaries.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Then for me, it leaves a better taste that and I think as environmental practitioners, we need to look at this very closely, even in when we are introducing these projects.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for me, it has to be you know worked in such a way that as we commence with this project during the public participation, but these alternatives they need to be introduced at the process to say yes, we have this project, but downstream we will have the following so that we have a buy-in from these people from the onset, not to make them to believe that you are giving them sugar, but two years, three years, five years, ten, ten years down the line, where now we have become so comfortable.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: We have even built our houses, we have developed ourselves around this area.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now we are telling us that you are moving now to point B, of which point B is a hundred kilometers away from where I'm staying.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: It means I am no longer the beneficiary of the beneficiary of the project.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: It means now there's a shift.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, at a government level, the principle will still.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: apply that at least we are moving from the traditional to the new alternatives.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: But in terms of who's benefiting, I think as government we still have to look how then we introduce our projects to our communities.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that now we are ensuring that these projects they become sustainable.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sustainable in the sense that there must be anyone who is being left out when the project is implemented 20 years down the line.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone must must see himself or yourself as part and parcel of this project from the commencement until the project is implemented 30 years down the line.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: If we have considered my views from the beginning and we have told me from the beginning, we have explained everything, giving me all the alternatives, even if the project will take a different shape 10 years down the line.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be announced during the public decision process so that I am part and parcel of that decision instead of changing in the middle of the process now saying now we are introducing now the new because introducing the new but then how are you going to take care of me?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do understand we are saying some mechanism can implement it.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: For example, we are saying we can retrain these people but you are retraining me but where is the project is it still within my locality it is no longer it is in another area where those people in that area will then demand to say but we are the local people why are we taking people who are coming hundred kilometers away now let us take a simple thing we have the solar plant in northern Cape can you take people from attack no no so you are suggesting that if a mine or an area that has some sort of economic activity but that needs to be adjusted to fit under the just transition under cleaner energy solutions of adaptations need to also be implemented at that specific area and people shouldn't be moved to another area because we are saying maybe in this area we cannot come up with something that I am saying if all support that view maybe even in terms of the environment even in terms of the locality the project output and everything let's try that we implement it within that area.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: It must not be the decision of someone who comes at a later stage let it be part of our planning stages to say we are trying to implement this option if this option doesn't work we will move to option B.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: It means the people are aware that there is a possibility that it may not materialize maybe in this way.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of surprising us when now we have become so capitable and benefiting from this project and you are saying now you are maximizing it and now you are changing now you know we are going to to have something better because we will believe that as you improve your project it's also going to improve our lives on to find that the project it is improved but our lives are going to be going back to where they were 20 years down the line or backwards.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: My view is that the the just approach is very interesting and it's going to improve the lives of our people but I'm not sure about the lives of the local people of the project it can improve our economy as South Africans it can improve the level in which maybe our people in the province live but I'm worried about the people at a local level that is why I'm using some kele mine the mine came there yes there were a lot of lobbyist who were against the mine but it benefited people.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: But now we are saying that approach of having the coal mine like it is not a sustainable thing.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: We need to move towards it consider alternatives.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: But the issue is how are we going to ensure that people who have been benefiting they will still benefit.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: If we would want to lock our minds in that we were lying they will not benefit it might benefit the province at the end of the day but it might not benefit the local people no Dr.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Lamini thank you I must cut you off due to time but thank you for this discussion it was really enlightening how you mentioned the importance of adapting solutions at a local level yes we do speak of retraining people and maybe relocating them to where it might be fruitful for the just transition purposes but the specific area where people reside and have been living and benefiting in a certain project we need to consider solutions that fit in that area.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for your time and I must say goodbye to our audience do you have any last comments before we go no thanks so much for this interview apologies for taking so much time for having this it's as it as I've indicated I am the only leader of this and if then the department wants ESCO I am ESCO.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: If then environment needs a person to deal with I have the person to deal with with those things then in each and everything I am accountable for that.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: But we found this training it was very interesting.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was a very interesting workshop that we had in 2024 in Peter Marisberg and it enlightened us a lot but as we were enlightened it also raised a lot of questions that one will have to answer.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I think one will want maybe to have another session where we can also have an engagement.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: After now we we were trained we have implemented this and we're engaging and we are learning new things.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I will still say this I am still worried about the original original beneficiaries where now we are changing now to the new whether how to ensure that they still continue being beneficial yeah yeah thank you so much.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: A huge thank you to our guests for sharing their expertise and time with us and also for attending this training we hope you will continue to champion the mandate of greening the economy in a just and equitable way.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And to our listeners your support means the world thank you for joining the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Remember sustainable growth is not just a goal but a path to a more resilient and prosperous future.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to subscribe leave a review and connect with us on YouTube, Apple and Spotify.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time I'm Tobanike signing off