Latest / Beautifully Complex / 357: Three Layers of Regulation for ADHD, with Jenna Free, CCC

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357: Three Layers of Regulation for ADHD, with Jenna Free, CCC · Beautifully Complex

0:01
Speaker 1: If you look at fighter flight symptoms and you look
0:04
Speaker 1: at ADHD symptoms, that list is almost the same. So
0:06
Speaker 1: what we're doing is compounding our struggle. I already have
0:09
Speaker 1: an add brain. Now I'm going to put that ADHG
0:12
Speaker 1: brain in fight or flight mode. We're struggling way more
0:16
Speaker 1: than we need to. So once we get that brain
0:18
Speaker 1: out of fight or flight, then you're just dealing with ADHD,
0:21
Speaker 1: which personally and my clients have also said, is like,
0:23
Speaker 1: oh okay, this is manageable.
0:27
Speaker 2: Welcome to beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
0:31
Speaker 2: means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
0:35
Speaker 2: Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
0:39
Speaker 2: this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
0:43
Speaker 2: to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
0:48
Speaker 2: if you want more support, join our free community at
0:51
Speaker 2: hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Hello everyone, welcome back
1:00
Speaker 2: to Beautifully Complex. I'm really so thrilled and honored to
1:04
Speaker 2: have with me Jennifree to talk about ADHD and regulation
1:09
Speaker 2: and what that really looks like. What is the interplay
1:13
Speaker 2: between our nervous system and regulation and ADHD and some
1:16
Speaker 2: of the struggle and all the things. I'm sure as
1:19
Speaker 2: much as we can get to and the time together. Jenna,
1:22
Speaker 2: will you start by letting our listeners know who you
1:25
Speaker 2: are and what you do.
1:27
Speaker 1: Yes. Hello, my name is Jenna and I'm a therapist
1:30
Speaker 1: for ADHD and I also have ADHD myself. I take
1:33
Speaker 1: a unique approach to working with ADHDS, and it is
1:37
Speaker 1: solely around getting out of fight or flight. I don't
1:40
Speaker 1: do any of the external stuff because I have found
1:43
Speaker 1: that if we do that internal work, it drastically decreases
1:47
Speaker 1: our symptoms increases our executive functioning. So it really is
1:51
Speaker 1: the most powerful way to live well with ADHD.
1:55
Speaker 2: Awesome, and tell us about your new book.
1:57
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So, I have this simple guide to ad regulation
2:00
Speaker 1: hanging above me here, and this is a very neurodivergent
2:04
Speaker 1: friendly I've been told that it actually is. I know
2:07
Speaker 1: a lot of books claim to be supportive of our
2:10
Speaker 1: different brain, but very succinct, lots of images, lots of
2:15
Speaker 1: diagrams to visualize these ideas and make them a bit
2:20
Speaker 1: more tangible. So it is a beautiful walkthrough of the process.
2:25
Speaker 2: Awesome. So, let's talk about how you define regulation first
2:30
Speaker 2: and then why are we talking about regulation specifically when
2:35
Speaker 2: we're talking about ADHD.
2:37
Speaker 1: Absolutely So, regulation to me is I really love the
2:40
Speaker 1: definition to regulate. If you google that definition, it's the
2:44
Speaker 1: rate or speed at which it actually says a machine.
2:47
Speaker 1: But I say, which we function best. We think we
2:50
Speaker 1: function best in crisis and intensity, especially as adhdears, but
2:54
Speaker 1: we actually function best in balance. So what regulation is.
2:58
Speaker 1: It's just like if we thought about a dysregulated temperature
3:01
Speaker 1: when you're sick, you're super hot and then you're freezing cold,
3:04
Speaker 1: and then you're boiling and you got to kick off
3:05
Speaker 1: the blankets and then you're freezing and shivering. That's what
3:08
Speaker 1: the nervous system is doing. So to regulate is to
3:10
Speaker 1: find that balance, that comfortable temperature, if you will, and
3:14
Speaker 1: functioning from this more sustained place. And that is what
3:17
Speaker 1: I work to help people do, especially eight each years.
3:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talk so much about regulation here on the
3:24
Speaker 2: podcast and all the work that I'm doing with parents,
3:27
Speaker 2: but you actually take regulation, this concept of regulation deeper
3:33
Speaker 2: into more stages of regulation. We're talking a lot about
3:37
Speaker 2: nervous system regulation here, but what other types of regulation
3:42
Speaker 2: do we need to focus on?
3:44
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, I do think I also skipped over your
3:46
Speaker 1: question of like why regulation free each year, so I
3:50
Speaker 1: will return to that, and that is if you have
3:52
Speaker 1: an ADHD brain. And this is what I've seen. This
3:55
Speaker 1: is anecdotal, but I've worked with over one thousand and
3:57
Speaker 1: eight each years in depth, and I have not met
3:59
Speaker 1: one who is not in fight or flight. So my
4:01
Speaker 1: theory is just being a neurodivergent person in a neurotypical
4:05
Speaker 1: world has given us enough of these little friction points
4:08
Speaker 1: of like, oh, I'm not quite fitting in, I'm not
4:10
Speaker 1: quite the same, I'm late, I forgot something. Just these
4:13
Speaker 1: little points of friction doesn't have to be huge trauma.
4:15
Speaker 1: I never identified with that, but just enough that it's
4:18
Speaker 1: put our nervous system on the defense. If you look
4:22
Speaker 1: at fighter flight symptoms and you look at ADHD symptoms,
4:24
Speaker 1: that list is almost the same. So what we're doing
4:26
Speaker 1: is compounding our struggle. I already have an ADHD brain.
4:30
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to put that ADHD brain in fight
4:33
Speaker 1: or flight mode. We're struggling way more than we need to.
4:36
Speaker 1: So once we get that brain out of fight or flight,
4:38
Speaker 1: then you're just dealing with ADHD, which personally and my
4:42
Speaker 1: clients have also said is like, oh okay, this is manageable.
4:46
Speaker 1: I can I can do this now. It was the
4:49
Speaker 1: double symptomology that is really debilitating. So if someone is
4:56
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a child with ADHD or ADHD
4:59
Speaker 1: in adulthood, if we are like this is impacting everything,
5:03
Speaker 1: we're probably also dealing with the fighter flight symptoms mixed in.
5:08
Speaker 2: And we know that when our nervous system gets dysregulated,
5:13
Speaker 2: we go into fight or flight the access to our
5:16
Speaker 2: cognitive functioning dems, and that's what is already a struggle
5:22
Speaker 2: also often with the ADHD, those executive functions. Right, do
5:26
Speaker 2: you want to talk a little bit more about what
5:28
Speaker 2: that looks like for folks, and then we can jump
5:32
Speaker 2: into how we sort of move through it.
5:35
Speaker 1: Absolutely so we can see right the fight flight freeze
5:38
Speaker 1: FOND specifically, so fight is going to look like irritability,
5:43
Speaker 1: emotional dysregulations. I'm really sensitive, really quickly, impatience, rushing, frantic energy.
5:50
Speaker 1: That's all that kind of aggressive fight, defensiveness. Flight. We
5:53
Speaker 1: have avoidance, procrastination, not doing the thing we know we
5:58
Speaker 1: want to do, rease paralysis. I have seen, maybe slightly controversial,
6:03
Speaker 1: I have seen that that is a symptom I do
6:06
Speaker 1: not believe is inherent to ADHD. I think that is
6:09
Speaker 1: the freeze is just the fight or flight. I myself
6:12
Speaker 1: have not been in paralysis for two years after swimming
6:16
Speaker 1: in it for two decades. And then the fawn. We
6:20
Speaker 1: have the people pleasing the masking, put everyone's needs before
6:23
Speaker 1: our own, unwilling to have uncomfortable conversations because all of
6:27
Speaker 1: that's dysregulation, rejection, sensitivity, So all of those things I
6:32
Speaker 1: do recommend, especially if people are kind of into this work,
6:36
Speaker 1: to start seeing all of that is dysregulation. Put the
6:39
Speaker 1: ADHD aside for now, assume we're dealing with thissregulation and
6:44
Speaker 1: let's work on it from there. Then we do the
6:46
Speaker 1: regulation work and you're kind of you see what you're
6:48
Speaker 1: left with, which is going to be a lot.
6:49
Speaker 2: Less Yeah, so tell us about that regulation work. What
6:52
Speaker 2: does that look like?
6:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we have the nervous system piece. That is
6:56
Speaker 1: something that everyone's probably heard of, but I do approach
7:00
Speaker 1: in a bit of a different way. So a lot
7:01
Speaker 1: of regulation work nervous system focus is going to be
7:06
Speaker 1: task based. I call it, so something you could check
7:08
Speaker 1: off your to do list. Oh I did my meditation,
7:11
Speaker 1: I did my yoga, I did my breathing exercises check.
7:14
Speaker 1: Whereas I take more of an in the moment approach
7:17
Speaker 1: of let's get really good at feeling what it's like
7:21
Speaker 1: to be dysregulated. We've probably normalized that at this point,
7:25
Speaker 1: like that's just how it feels to live. So we
7:27
Speaker 1: got to get that intraception back up of like, oh,
7:30
Speaker 1: I actually notice when my muscles are tense, when my
7:33
Speaker 1: heart is racing, when my stomach is in knots, when
7:35
Speaker 1: I'm holding my breath, when I'm physically rushing around, and
7:39
Speaker 1: when I'm frozen, I can see it. I notice it,
7:43
Speaker 1: and I go, oh, I'm disregulated. So that awareness is key. First,
7:47
Speaker 1: I just need to feel myself going through my life
7:50
Speaker 1: and knowing what dysregulation feels like. Then the second piece
7:54
Speaker 1: is more in the moment regulation work of when I
7:56
Speaker 1: do notice it, can I interrupt it consistently over time,
8:00
Speaker 1: which is difficult when we're just regulated. We want fast,
8:03
Speaker 1: we want quick. We don't have time for this. But
8:06
Speaker 1: that's part of what I coach people to do, is
8:08
Speaker 1: to come at regulation. We're in a regulated way, which
8:11
Speaker 1: is hey, slow and steady wins the race. Time's gonna
8:14
Speaker 1: pass anyways, So why don't we do something that's going
8:17
Speaker 1: to make it better in the long run. And so
8:18
Speaker 1: that would look like a really tangible one that everyone
8:21
Speaker 1: can start with, is when I'm physically rushing, can I
8:24
Speaker 1: interrupt that and slow down? Because when I'm running to
8:27
Speaker 1: the car, for example, even if you're late, I don't
8:29
Speaker 1: care your reason. I'm running to the car. Oh no
8:32
Speaker 1: I'm late for that appointment, because I know we've all
8:34
Speaker 1: been there. Oh I'm just regulated and I walk and
8:39
Speaker 1: then I still catch myself and have to do that.
8:42
Speaker 1: But what's that's doing is saying, hey, nervous system, because
8:46
Speaker 1: we can't talk to it, we can only show it. Look,
8:48
Speaker 1: you are not, in fact being chased by a bear.
8:51
Speaker 1: You are safe. It is okay to slow down. But
8:54
Speaker 1: all we want to do is just notice that as
8:56
Speaker 1: much as we can and interrupt it as much as
8:59
Speaker 1: you can, and it will become more of a reflex
9:01
Speaker 1: where at this point when I'm rushing, I feel it
9:03
Speaker 1: so hard so fast that I like instinctively slow down.
9:07
Speaker 1: But that takes time, obviously, to build that muscle memory.
9:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It takes a lot of practice and a
9:13
Speaker 2: lot of time. I get that question a lot. You know,
9:16
Speaker 2: if you're able to turn your mindset or you're able
9:19
Speaker 2: to use a strategy when you're starting to get like
9:22
Speaker 2: for me anxious, Why can you do it so easily
9:25
Speaker 2: and I can't? Well, because I've been practicing a really
9:28
Speaker 2: long time, right.
9:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's worth the taught. Like, like I say, I'd
9:32
Speaker 1: say that that line kind of hit sometimes, like in
9:35
Speaker 1: a year, a year is going to have passed, so
9:37
Speaker 1: you could either still be dysregulated and struggling or things
9:39
Speaker 1: can be a lot better. There's really no rush even
9:43
Speaker 1: to get to a regulated place which is regulating in
9:45
Speaker 1: and of itself.
9:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, how do we build the awareness? Can we
9:49
Speaker 2: backtrack just a little bit and talk about that, because
9:52
Speaker 2: I think it can be a struggle for a lot
9:54
Speaker 2: of people especially we're not taught really to do that
9:57
Speaker 2: as kids. So how do we transition from just kind
10:02
Speaker 2: of going through the flow and being sort of chronically
10:05
Speaker 2: dysregulated to really noticing how our body is feeling and
10:08
Speaker 2: when it's telling us.
10:10
Speaker 1: I try with all my clients, I work mostly in groups,
10:14
Speaker 1: and I try to tell them to choose one or
10:16
Speaker 1: two kind of red flags that are gonna be the
10:18
Speaker 1: thing you look out for this week. So if it
10:20
Speaker 1: can be as specific as possible, like, oh, I'm gonna
10:23
Speaker 1: look out for this week when my shoulders are up
10:26
Speaker 1: around my ears, because I know I have really bad
10:28
Speaker 1: trap TMJ stuff and that's myself included. So I'm gonna
10:32
Speaker 1: notice when my muscles are tense, and I'm gonna notice
10:34
Speaker 1: when I'm rushing. Those are the two things I'm gonna
10:36
Speaker 1: look out for this week. You're not going to notice
10:38
Speaker 1: it all the time, but if you can have a
10:40
Speaker 1: visual reminder, you know, one post it note not ten
10:43
Speaker 1: thousand that says like high shoulders rushing, something that like
10:48
Speaker 1: cues you to go, oh yeah, let me check in
10:49
Speaker 1: with myself. This is just how we are getting the
10:53
Speaker 1: awareness up to the surface. Because it's been quite subconscious.
10:56
Speaker 1: We're getting it back to the conscious mind. And if
10:58
Speaker 1: you make it as specific as possible, as much easier
11:00
Speaker 1: than to go notice when you're justsregulated, well what does
11:02
Speaker 1: that mean? Get specific? I do have a obviously in
11:06
Speaker 1: the book list it, but I also have a free
11:08
Speaker 1: guide if someone just quickly wants to get a list
11:10
Speaker 1: of like what are the symptoms of thissregulation, that could
11:13
Speaker 1: choose one or two of to really get good at noticing,
11:16
Speaker 1: because once you see it, I find you can't unsee it.
11:19
Speaker 1: If you get good at noticing it and feeling it,
11:21
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I'm feeling it now. So it's a
11:24
Speaker 1: great place to start.
11:25
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I love the idea of starting with just
11:27
Speaker 2: one thing. Don't try to do it all at once,
11:30
Speaker 2: because we're not going to be successful that way. But
11:32
Speaker 2: if we start with one thing, we can be successful,
11:35
Speaker 2: and then that can feel us to keep going. Yes,
11:38
Speaker 2: So what's after nervous system regulation? And what's the next
11:42
Speaker 2: step of regulation?
11:44
Speaker 1: So all of the regulation levels, the intention is nervous
11:47
Speaker 1: system regulation. So they have different names, but I'm just
11:50
Speaker 1: gonna point that out. That purpose though, is to get
11:53
Speaker 1: the nervous system regulated. But if we don't do these
11:55
Speaker 1: other layers, I find it's not impactful enough to act
12:00
Speaker 1: actually heal where I'm now functioning from a regulated state
12:03
Speaker 1: more consistently. So the second layer is we go from
12:06
Speaker 1: the body into the brain and we go what are
12:08
Speaker 1: the thoughts and the beliefs that I am running in
12:11
Speaker 1: my mind? We have like a belief system typically that
12:15
Speaker 1: I function from. Well, if your nervous system has felt unsafe,
12:19
Speaker 1: probably for the most of your life. And I do
12:21
Speaker 1: find with eighth dars it's not like I get dysregulated.
12:24
Speaker 1: I'm chronically stuck in dysregulation. So this has been probably
12:28
Speaker 1: twenty four hours to some degree higher and lower degrees
12:31
Speaker 1: for decades. So if my nervous system feels unsafe, that
12:34
Speaker 1: is going to inform how I think that is going
12:37
Speaker 1: to inform my belief systems. And if I don't work
12:40
Speaker 1: on the way, I think that's just going to retrigger
12:42
Speaker 1: the nervous system again and again and again. So say
12:45
Speaker 1: you're working on slowing down, so oh, I notice I'm
12:48
Speaker 1: rushing and I'm slowing down. It's going to be really
12:51
Speaker 1: hard to do that work in any significant way. If
12:54
Speaker 1: we're still believing I'm behind. I need to catch up.
12:57
Speaker 1: There's not enough time in the day. I can't rest
13:00
Speaker 1: until my to do list is complete. These are the
13:02
Speaker 1: biggest ADHD just regulating beliefs I find so sure, right
13:06
Speaker 1: think about that? Is that everything in line? Or is
13:09
Speaker 1: that an internal tugg war trying to physically slow down
13:12
Speaker 1: while my brain is going but you're behind, you need
13:14
Speaker 1: to catch up. Well, no sane person is going to
13:18
Speaker 1: slow down if they believe they're behind and need to
13:20
Speaker 1: catch up. That inherently has me just regulated in anxiety,
13:24
Speaker 1: in rush, in panic. And so we want to start
13:28
Speaker 1: working on those beliefs and breaking them down and challenging
13:30
Speaker 1: them and shifting them, because if we keep those and
13:33
Speaker 1: we don't question them again, you're kind of stuck. And
13:36
Speaker 1: I do think if people stop at somatic work, at
13:39
Speaker 1: the body work with regulation, this is what we find
13:42
Speaker 1: where it's like helpful more momentarily, but it's not truly
13:46
Speaker 1: like dropping my system into a regulated place consistently. So
13:52
Speaker 1: a great place to start for everybody would be, what
13:55
Speaker 1: is one kind of your number one story or narrative
13:59
Speaker 1: you have that is disregulating and you're gonna know it's
14:02
Speaker 1: disregulating when it causes you anxiety. Makes it's not gonna
14:07
Speaker 1: be like, oh that's a nice thought. So yeah, that
14:10
Speaker 1: most common one. I'm behind. I need to catch up.
14:13
Speaker 1: We want to start being aware when I'm just regulated.
14:16
Speaker 1: Am I thinking that? Or is that somewhere? It can
14:19
Speaker 1: be a little bit subconscious, so you're not necessarily like
14:21
Speaker 1: explicitly thinking it. But say you're at work, really rushing
14:24
Speaker 1: around being like, oh my god, I keep trying to
14:26
Speaker 1: slow down, but I just keep rushing again. Why is that? Oh,
14:30
Speaker 1: I see that I'm feeling behind and I need to
14:32
Speaker 1: catch up. So of course I'm going to start rushing
14:35
Speaker 1: again when I'm not like thinking about it as hard.
14:38
Speaker 1: So we want to start breaking that down. And a
14:41
Speaker 1: good way to start doing that is to look at
14:44
Speaker 1: what is the outcome of holding that belief, Because a
14:47
Speaker 1: lot of people right now might be thinking, but it's true,
14:50
Speaker 1: I am I'm behind it and I do need to
14:52
Speaker 1: catch up. Okay, Well, what is the reality of what happens?
14:56
Speaker 1: What plays out when you believe that? For me, just
14:59
Speaker 1: to give people an illustration and they might find their
15:02
Speaker 1: own illustration is I would go, oh, I'm behind, I
15:05
Speaker 1: need to catch up. There's so much to do. It
15:07
Speaker 1: would put me in overwhelm and it would tip me
15:09
Speaker 1: over in a paralysis, and I would watch TV all
15:11
Speaker 1: day yep. So it was not helping me get more done.
15:15
Speaker 1: It was not helping me catch up. It was just
15:17
Speaker 1: just regulating me further, bringing the blood flow out of
15:20
Speaker 1: my brain into my limbs. My executive functioning is down,
15:23
Speaker 1: my eighty she symptoms are up, I'm frozen, and then
15:26
Speaker 1: don't I go. We'll see look, how true that is.
15:29
Speaker 1: I'm behind, I need to catch up.
15:30
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a vicious cycle fulfilling.
15:33
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a vicious cycle. So if we can start realizing,
15:37
Speaker 1: oh regardless if it if it's true or not, I
15:39
Speaker 1: can get into a whole second episode about why these
15:42
Speaker 1: beliefs are not true. But I won't go there today.
15:45
Speaker 1: But even if it is true, what use is it
15:48
Speaker 1: to you? It's just making it worse. It's making you disregulated,
15:52
Speaker 1: it's pulling against all your efforts to regulate your nervous system.
15:56
Speaker 1: So what if we shifted it? And I like to
15:59
Speaker 1: think of just something or neutral, but typically the neutral
16:02
Speaker 1: beliefs are just gonna be meaning I'm aligned with reality.
16:05
Speaker 1: When we believe I'm behind, I need to catch up,
16:07
Speaker 1: I'm fighting with reality because what you're saying is I
16:09
Speaker 1: should be further along. I should be over there, I
16:12
Speaker 1: should have gotten that done. Okay, Well the reality is
16:15
Speaker 1: you didn't, so right, but I should? But I should?
16:18
Speaker 1: But I should? Okay, Well, we could fight that fight
16:20
Speaker 1: all day, but we are where we are, So I
16:22
Speaker 1: really like to shift that belief to even I am
16:24
Speaker 1: where I am. I'm not saying you wouldn't rather have
16:27
Speaker 1: that stuff done. I'm not saying this is the perfect
16:29
Speaker 1: thing and you're never going to change, but I am
16:32
Speaker 1: where I am. And then I love a little tag
16:35
Speaker 1: on the end of now what. So instead of going
16:38
Speaker 1: I'm behind, I need to catch up blah blah and
16:40
Speaker 1: watch TV all day, I might go, Okay, I am
16:42
Speaker 1: where I am. Now what, Well, you know I'm gonna
16:46
Speaker 1: get started on the laundry. It's just like so much softer.
16:50
Speaker 1: It lands us back in reality. I've got my feet
16:53
Speaker 1: on the ground and I can take a step in
16:55
Speaker 1: the direction I want to go. And that's really what
16:58
Speaker 1: regulation is about, is calming it down, being here and
17:02
Speaker 1: taking that next step. And it's amazing when you retrain
17:06
Speaker 1: the system to just live in that place, you're just
17:09
Speaker 1: like doing the next thing almost all the time in
17:11
Speaker 1: a really gentle and fun way.
17:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really taking the blame and shame out of
17:17
Speaker 2: a lot of it, which is so I think inherent
17:20
Speaker 2: with ADHD, at least starting out with it. Let me
17:28
Speaker 2: pause for a second, because if you're listening to this podcast,
17:32
Speaker 2: I'm guessing you've had at least one moment recently where
17:36
Speaker 2: you thought, why is this so hard? And what am
17:40
Speaker 2: I supposed to do here. Maybe it was a meltdown
17:43
Speaker 2: that seemed to come out of nowhere, or a shutdown
17:46
Speaker 2: where your child just couldn't engage, or one of those
17:50
Speaker 2: moments where everything escalates so fast and you're just left
17:55
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what just happened. And most of
18:00
Speaker 2: us are taught to look at those moments as behavior problems,
18:04
Speaker 2: but they're not. They're signals, signals from a nervous system
18:08
Speaker 2: that's overwhelmed or out of capacity or not feeling safe
18:12
Speaker 2: enough in that moment. They're disregulated, and when we miss that,
18:18
Speaker 2: we end up trying strategy after strategy, but nothing really changes.
18:24
Speaker 2: And that's exactly why I created the Unlocking Regulation Summit
18:29
Speaker 2: that's taking place May eighteenth through the twenty first. It's
18:33
Speaker 2: a completely free event where I'm bringing together incredible experts
18:38
Speaker 2: to help you understand what's actually going on underneath those
18:42
Speaker 2: hard moments, and more importantly, what to do differently, Not theory,
18:48
Speaker 2: not more pressure, real usable support for your real life moments.
18:54
Speaker 2: And we're talking about what's really driving meltdowns and shutdowns,
18:58
Speaker 2: what helps in those hard moments, and how to support
19:02
Speaker 2: your kid in a way that actually builds capacity over time,
19:07
Speaker 2: you can join us free. It's for kids of all
19:10
Speaker 2: ages from four to twenty four plus. Just go to
19:15
Speaker 2: Regulated kids dot com and save your spot. That's Regulated
19:19
Speaker 2: kids dot Com. If you're feeling stuck or second guessing yourself,
19:24
Speaker 2: or just exhausted from trying to figure it out, this
19:28
Speaker 2: is for you. Do You have to also believe that
19:42
Speaker 2: this work can make a difference. Like I remember when
19:46
Speaker 2: I went on this journey about a decade ago to
19:49
Speaker 2: stop having a victim mentality really work on my own
19:54
Speaker 2: thoughts and beliefs, but my whole life before that, I
20:00
Speaker 2: I had believed that what I thought didn't really hold power.
20:04
Speaker 2: So I first had to work on the belief that
20:06
Speaker 2: this could actually be helpful. Do you find that for
20:11
Speaker 2: this as well?
20:12
Speaker 1: It's huge, That's huge, which is why the beginning of
20:15
Speaker 1: this work, even like in my groups, the whole first
20:18
Speaker 1: session is about buying, Like you have to buy in
20:20
Speaker 1: that this is possible or you're not going to get anywhere.
20:23
Speaker 1: If you believe it won't work, it won't. If you
20:25
Speaker 1: believe it will, it will because brains are really smart.
20:28
Speaker 1: If I don't believe this is going to work, why
20:30
Speaker 1: would I put any energy into it? I wouldn't. I'm
20:33
Speaker 1: not dumb. Yeah, But if I believe, hey, you know
20:37
Speaker 1: what I can have? And this is truly my belief.
20:40
Speaker 1: I believe eight each years can do anything they want
20:42
Speaker 1: to do. I believe we can pursue anything we want
20:44
Speaker 1: to pursue. We just got to get out of fight
20:46
Speaker 1: or flight. So if I believe, hey, I can do
20:49
Speaker 1: what I want in life, I can have a good life.
20:51
Speaker 1: I don't need to be in survival mode. I don't
20:53
Speaker 1: need to just be keeping my head above water. I
20:56
Speaker 1: can vision it. You might not know how you're gonna
20:58
Speaker 1: get there, especially if you haven't done this work yet,
21:00
Speaker 1: but okay, I believe this is going to really help.
21:03
Speaker 1: It will yeah, because you're going to keep at it
21:06
Speaker 1: until you get there. And that's exactly how I came
21:08
Speaker 1: across this approach, was starting my journey in a very
21:12
Speaker 1: drowning place of like I'm barely keeping my head above water.
21:15
Speaker 1: And that's why I got my diagnosis at thirty two,
21:18
Speaker 1: because I knew something was up. But it was pretty
21:21
Speaker 1: quick turnaround of like, oh, this sucks life so hard,
21:24
Speaker 1: And then I was like, Okay, what am I not
21:26
Speaker 1: happy with? I'm not happy being paralyzed on the couch
21:29
Speaker 1: all day. I'm not happy being unhappy. I felt like
21:32
Speaker 1: I was just living to get everything over with so
21:34
Speaker 1: I could go lay down, like I don't want this
21:36
Speaker 1: kind of life. I want to be present, I want
21:38
Speaker 1: to be happy. I want to live a good life.
21:40
Speaker 1: I want to do the things I want to do. Okay,
21:41
Speaker 1: how am I going to figure that out? And that
21:44
Speaker 1: is the only thing that I think allowed me to
21:46
Speaker 1: get to this place because had I been like you said,
21:49
Speaker 1: if I believed, which a lot of ADHD content tells us,
21:53
Speaker 1: isn't it so hard? This is just how it is.
21:56
Speaker 1: All you can do is cope. Best of luck to you,
22:00
Speaker 1: the message I get. And if you believe that, like
22:03
Speaker 1: these symptoms are inevitable, there's nothing I can heal. I
22:06
Speaker 1: can only cope.
22:07
Speaker 2: That's where you're gonna stay.
22:08
Speaker 1: That's that's all we'll ever get.
22:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so many self fulfilling prophecies. Really, you know,
22:16
Speaker 2: our minds and our bodies, our nervous systems are so
22:20
Speaker 2: incredible in that way to really protect us but also
22:25
Speaker 2: to let us feel more calm and settled and free
22:29
Speaker 2: as well. What is the third step then, of regulation?
22:33
Speaker 2: We've worked on the thinking and the beliefs. What's that
22:37
Speaker 2: last piece.
22:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, the last is behavior, and that is very specific
22:41
Speaker 1: disregulated behavior, not just like force yourself to do things differently.
22:45
Speaker 1: So we're gonna see dysregulation in our behavior in the extremes.
22:50
Speaker 1: So all or nothing thinking is a big part of
22:52
Speaker 1: that perfectionism. So I'm either cleaning the whole house top
22:56
Speaker 1: to bottom or I'm not even gonna pick the towelip
22:58
Speaker 1: off the floor. I'm either going to do that whole
23:03
Speaker 1: work project and wait till I have a whole day
23:04
Speaker 1: to hammer it out, or I'm not even going to start.
23:07
Speaker 1: And this is how we live. This is like all
23:09
Speaker 1: or nothing. I do it perfectly or I don't bother.
23:11
Speaker 1: I do it all or I do none. Oh my gosh,
23:14
Speaker 1: that is so dysregulating. Because you're swinging from extremes. It's exhausting.
23:18
Speaker 1: And again it is not at the raid or speed
23:20
Speaker 1: at which you function best. You are going to function
23:23
Speaker 1: best in more sustainable, gentle flow. So that's going to
23:27
Speaker 1: be like doing a little bit at a time, doing
23:31
Speaker 1: a part of it without doing all of it. This
23:34
Speaker 1: retraining the brain to be flexible, and the reason why
23:38
Speaker 1: we're in all or nothing. Thinking is not an inherent
23:41
Speaker 1: ADHD trait. Again, it is fight or flight because when
23:44
Speaker 1: you're in survival mode makes a lot of sense. Your
23:47
Speaker 1: brain on purpose sees things in black and white, because
23:50
Speaker 1: if you're in the forest, not sure of your own survival,
23:54
Speaker 1: you need to know like safe unsafe. I need judgment.
23:56
Speaker 1: I need quick judgment, and I need harsh judgments. No
24:00
Speaker 1: time for nuance and going, oh is this a safe cave? Hmm,
24:04
Speaker 1: let me paw onder all the nuance about it. No,
24:07
Speaker 1: anything that seems unsafe, I'm gonna market unsafe bad good
24:10
Speaker 1: bad that we get stuck in that when it's obviously
24:14
Speaker 1: not useful because we are not in imminent life threatening danger.
24:17
Speaker 1: I'm trying to clean my house. So what we want
24:20
Speaker 1: to do is retrain the brain. And it's a purposeful work,
24:24
Speaker 1: meaning I'm doing it on purpose. But we can absolutely
24:27
Speaker 1: retrain the brain to function more in the middle. So
24:29
Speaker 1: instead of A or Z being the only options you
24:32
Speaker 1: ever have, I now have access to all the letters
24:35
Speaker 1: of the alphabet. Maybe I'll just do a tiny bit today,
24:37
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll do a big chunk. Maybe I'll, you know,
24:40
Speaker 1: do a couple of the chores I have instead of
24:42
Speaker 1: getting the whole list done, but at least I can
24:44
Speaker 1: do what I can do. When you become this flexible
24:47
Speaker 1: person that can just do what you can do in
24:48
Speaker 1: the time you have, oh my gosh, you really get
24:51
Speaker 1: into a nice cadence of life. And this is my
24:53
Speaker 1: sound for regulation. Do do do do doo. This is
24:57
Speaker 1: the energy we want of day to day life. And
25:00
Speaker 1: we if we're in all or nothing, it is not
25:02
Speaker 1: that it's like screech urge, do nothing or go one
25:07
Speaker 1: hundred miles a minute and flinging around. So that is
25:10
Speaker 1: the last piece is can I work on doing things
25:13
Speaker 1: differently in a more bound sustainable way. Can I align
25:17
Speaker 1: my thoughts and beliefs with reality, have them more grounded,
25:21
Speaker 1: more rooted in what is Release the guilt and shame
25:23
Speaker 1: and judgment out of it, because that is all signs
25:25
Speaker 1: of dysregulation. Negative self talk. That's your nervous system trying
25:29
Speaker 1: to keep you safe because guilt, shame, urgency, fear are
25:33
Speaker 1: the motivators of a dysregulated system. So it's just trying
25:36
Speaker 1: to get you to run away from the bear. But
25:38
Speaker 1: it's not necessary and it's not helpful.
25:41
Speaker 2: It's not helpful.
25:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And then of course all coming back to
25:44
Speaker 1: the point, which is to get that nervous system to
25:48
Speaker 1: more sustainably and concretely land in a regulated place you
25:52
Speaker 1: can live there. I do think a lot of regulation
25:54
Speaker 1: work is also like whack a mole, Like, oh, can
25:59
Speaker 1: I just get out of those most extreme disregulating moments
26:03
Speaker 1: and help me in the moment versus actual healing, and like,
26:06
Speaker 1: let's not function from a baseline of dysregulation. Let's function
26:10
Speaker 1: from a baseline of regulation. But I'll get disregulated, of course,
26:14
Speaker 1: we're human beings. I get disregulated, but it takes a
26:17
Speaker 1: lot more to disregulate me than it used to. Yeah,
26:20
Speaker 1: and I have the tools to like come back to
26:23
Speaker 1: my baseline when I can.
26:25
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yeah. Just living in regulation is you know,
26:31
Speaker 2: it's a it feels like an unattainable goal a lot
26:35
Speaker 2: of times, right, if you have ADHD, everything's overwhelming, that
26:38
Speaker 2: doesn't feel possible. And so I love that you're adding
26:43
Speaker 2: that layer of thoughts and beliefs because it makes all
26:47
Speaker 2: the difference. If you don't believe you could be regulated,
26:52
Speaker 2: you're not going to get regulated. It's not going to
26:54
Speaker 2: be possible. But you can like change things to be
26:57
Speaker 2: sustainable so that you live in that space is more
27:00
Speaker 2: often than not. As you were talking about that third
27:04
Speaker 2: step of behavior, I was thinking about something that we
27:08
Speaker 2: do a lot with parents, which is to celebrate the
27:13
Speaker 2: tiniest bits of progress, Like if we're trying to build
27:17
Speaker 2: a snowman, we're going to celebrate one snowflake and then
27:20
Speaker 2: putting one snowflake with two snowflakes, right and starting to
27:24
Speaker 2: build that snowball. And when you were talking about like, no,
27:29
Speaker 2: I can't do it all, but I could do something, well,
27:32
Speaker 2: celebrate that you did something right, like shifting your thinking
27:34
Speaker 2: around that to every little thing that I do as
27:38
Speaker 2: progress instead of well I did this, but I didn't
27:42
Speaker 2: do it all, you know.
27:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we think that's cheesy or like, uh whatever,
27:47
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. But it's not about like feeling good.
27:51
Speaker 1: It is about I mean it is, but that's not
27:53
Speaker 1: the point of it. The point of that positive reinforcement
27:57
Speaker 1: is to regulate myself. If you are finally going towards
28:01
Speaker 1: the thing you want to do, so say you haven't
28:03
Speaker 1: done your taxes are overdue and you have not even
28:07
Speaker 1: looked at it in six months, and you open the
28:09
Speaker 1: software and find one receipt. You have finally, your beautiful
28:14
Speaker 1: nervous system has finally gone up to the thing that
28:16
Speaker 1: felt dangerous and you did it, and you're gonna go yes, bad,
28:19
Speaker 1: you didn't do enough. What the hell? Why would I
28:21
Speaker 1: go up to it again? No freaking way, I'm not stupid.
28:25
Speaker 1: I did all that work of finally doing the thing
28:27
Speaker 1: that I want to do when I get in trouble
28:29
Speaker 1: for myself, Like, this is a conversation between us and ourselves.
28:32
Speaker 1: We have control. So instead, anytime you head towards something
28:36
Speaker 1: you want to do more, we want to go awesome.
28:38
Speaker 1: Doesn't that feel good? Because the nervous system is going
28:40
Speaker 1: to want to do things that feel good. It is
28:43
Speaker 1: not going to want to do things that you beat
28:45
Speaker 1: yourself up about you have guilt and shame about. And
28:47
Speaker 1: I see that constantly, especially with something. Say you have
28:50
Speaker 1: a small task, you have not been doing it for
28:53
Speaker 1: three months, You finally do it. It takes fifteen minutes,
28:56
Speaker 1: and all we do is beat ourselves up about not
28:58
Speaker 1: having done it sooner. It's like, you finally did it
29:02
Speaker 1: after three months, and now you're getting yourself in trouble.
29:04
Speaker 1: Why it's going to take four months? Now? Next time, yeah,
29:07
Speaker 1: versus oh my gosh, I did it after all that time. Look,
29:11
Speaker 1: I did it and it didn't even take long. Isn't
29:13
Speaker 1: that cool? Now it might take you two months next
29:16
Speaker 1: time instead of getting worse and worse and worse. So
29:19
Speaker 1: it's it's really logical about why we want positive reinforcement.
29:23
Speaker 1: It's not just because it's like nicer to ourselves mm hmmm.
29:27
Speaker 2: And it's queues of safety for a nervous system. When
29:30
Speaker 2: we have a positive thought about it, it's a q
29:32
Speaker 2: of safety. If you have a negative thought about it,
29:35
Speaker 2: it's threat right exactly.
29:36
Speaker 1: So I'm happy to come back to it much more
29:38
Speaker 1: quickly when it felt good and it didn't signal that
29:42
Speaker 1: that fear response for sure.
29:44
Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm hmm. What would you say to parents about
29:49
Speaker 2: helping their kids with ADHD where you know it's so hard.
29:54
Speaker 2: A lot of our parents are neudivisions themselves, they could
29:57
Speaker 2: have ADHD as well. I am not neurodiversient in that way,
30:03
Speaker 2: and so for me, when my son was young, I
30:05
Speaker 2: really wanted to understand what was he going through, What
30:09
Speaker 2: could I actually do that was going to be helpful.
30:11
Speaker 2: There wasn't a lot of information back then. Fortunately, there's
30:14
Speaker 2: a lot more now, but from this perspective of this
30:18
Speaker 2: sort of deeper layered approach to regulation, and what would
30:23
Speaker 2: you tell parents that they could start with to help
30:27
Speaker 2: their kids build this regulation?
30:29
Speaker 1: So first, ADHD or not as the parent, get regulated yourself.
30:33
Speaker 1: Coregulation is real. You can't regulate other people's nervous systems,
30:37
Speaker 1: even your childs. You can only regulate your own. So
30:40
Speaker 1: number one, get yourself out of fight or flight, because
30:42
Speaker 1: if you're snapping at them, if you're rushing in at them,
30:45
Speaker 1: if you're feeling anxious all the time, they will and
30:48
Speaker 1: then they're going to be disregulated. Their symptoms are going
30:50
Speaker 1: to be worse. It's not our fault. Don't be able
30:52
Speaker 1: to bring that into it, but we want that awareness.
30:54
Speaker 1: So do the work yourself. Secondly, how can I support
30:58
Speaker 1: my child to be more regulated even though I can't
31:00
Speaker 1: control their nervous system One would be really see how
31:04
Speaker 1: can I reduce rushing them? Because I get it, they're
31:08
Speaker 1: daily dahliers, they get distracted, they're not on task. What
31:11
Speaker 1: I have found with my kids I have two boys
31:13
Speaker 1: six and seven years old. Not sure if there's neurodivergence
31:17
Speaker 1: there yet, I do assume one of them is, but
31:19
Speaker 1: we'll see, and I get it in the morning. He's like,
31:23
Speaker 1: let's go, let's go, let's go. So one I do say, okay,
31:26
Speaker 1: let's go get our boots and jackets on sooner than
31:29
Speaker 1: I think I need to, because so I can let
31:32
Speaker 1: it take some time. Two, when I do think like, okay,
31:36
Speaker 1: we do need to get this moving, I think more
31:38
Speaker 1: focus instead of speed. So it's like, okay, guys, right
31:42
Speaker 1: now we're putting our boots on, let's focus. As opposed like,
31:45
Speaker 1: come on, let's go. That's not going to help anything.
31:49
Speaker 1: That's just going to put them into more panic and
31:51
Speaker 1: overwhelm and make it even slower. So but if we're
31:54
Speaker 1: regulated as adults, like me, being regulated has saved my
31:58
Speaker 1: butt with those kids because so I don't have to
32:00
Speaker 1: like fake it. I just am truly more regulated, So
32:03
Speaker 1: I'm more apt to not be in a rush. I'm
32:05
Speaker 1: more apt to be more thoughtful about, like how to
32:08
Speaker 1: encourage them instead of just reactive. So it starts with ourselves.
32:12
Speaker 1: Then it can be you know, how can I reduce
32:14
Speaker 1: overwhelm for them? How can I reduce rushing for them
32:18
Speaker 1: so their system feels safe to just to do through
32:21
Speaker 1: the world, and that's not going to solve everything, but
32:24
Speaker 1: it will really support them from falling into this constant
32:28
Speaker 1: disregulated state, at least reducing the intensity of it. I
32:32
Speaker 1: do think just being a neuro divergent person, they're going
32:34
Speaker 1: to go out into the world and they're going to
32:35
Speaker 1: be different, so they might still be dysregulated, but if
32:40
Speaker 1: at home it doesn't trigger it more, I think that's
32:43
Speaker 1: a great, great step.
32:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're setting them up, like in the mornings, for
32:48
Speaker 2: a much better day than if we're just rushing and
32:51
Speaker 2: stressing and putting all that pressure. And for yourself, like
32:56
Speaker 2: if you're struggling to get your kids out of the house,
32:57
Speaker 2: sometimes think about a day where it was easier and
33:00
Speaker 2: you know, it felt more gentle. How much different was
33:03
Speaker 2: your day and your kid's day? For sure? Jenna, tell
33:07
Speaker 2: everybody where they can find your work, your book so
33:12
Speaker 2: that they can learn more from you.
33:14
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you can find me at jennifree dot com or
33:16
Speaker 1: on social media at ADHD with Jennifree, as a podcast
33:21
Speaker 1: adhd with Jennifree, So you can really just search that
33:24
Speaker 1: name up and you'll find all sorts of resources. And
33:26
Speaker 1: of course the book is available wherever books are sold.
33:29
Speaker 2: And I will link everything up for everyone in the
33:31
Speaker 2: show notes, which are at Parenting ADHD and autism dot com.
33:35
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jenna, You're so much fun to talk to.
33:38
Speaker 2: You make it easy to think about the hard stuff
33:41
Speaker 2: and I really appreciate that and all the work that
33:43
Speaker 2: you're doing to help ADHD rs.
33:46
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me.
33:48
Speaker 2: I will say everybody next time, take good care. I
33:52
Speaker 2: see you. You're doing hard and meaningful work and you
33:55
Speaker 2: don't have to do it alone. If you found this
33:58
Speaker 2: episode helpful, share it with someone who needs it and
34:01
Speaker 2: leave a quick review so others can find this support too.
34:05
Speaker 2: When you're ready for next steps, the Regulated Kid's Project
34:09
Speaker 2: is here with the tools, coaching, and community to help
34:13
Speaker 2: you raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more info
34:17
Speaker 2: at regulated kids dot com.