Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / Flow State in an AI Workplace – Digital Friction 1:1 with Mike Lovewell

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Flow State in an AI Workplace – Digital Friction 1:1 with Mike Lovewell · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey it change makers and welcome to the Deck Show
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: with tom Ac Grath. Let's get into.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: It and change makers. I was.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I was recently in Boston, as many people will know,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: via the American Capital, the American Decks Capital, and I
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: bumped into a an old colleague and friend, Mike, Mike Lovewell,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and we thought we better get him on the show.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: But we had a bit of trouble, Mike, because then
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: you got you got, you got ill?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Is that right? You got?
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: I did?
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: But we're feeling we're feeling much better today, which is
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: which is good. You you you cut it as well, right.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: The Boston flu, the Boston flew, and let me tell you,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: they make a serious flu out there.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: They do.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: They're not messing around. It's like like the cars are
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: bigger in America. Everything's bigger, including the viruses.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I was. I was.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I was whacked out for three days, four days.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I was not.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I was not doing well, Mike, but I am. I
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: am on the men And how are.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: You doing that? So you see you've seen brighton.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Same but mine was like a forty eight hour ordeal.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: But we're we're back and back to all things decks.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: It's so back, Mike, it's so back. Although you're not
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: back on the show. You're a first timer after after
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: all these years.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Can't believe it.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: So if anyone doesn't know you out there in the
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Dex world, there's bound to be a few.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Introduce yourself to begin with.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks thanks Tom. Yes, first first time on the
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: on the Decks show.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Very very honored.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: But my name is Mike love Well. So I'm an
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: SE team lead now for for the Northeast. I've been
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: with Next Thing for for right around eight years, so
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: I've I've seen Dex before it was Dex and and
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Next Think really kind of boom in this space. But
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: very very happy to be with you today. I'm very
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: very honored.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Which allowed to have you know, we've we've had parallel
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Next Thing liars a little bit and tell us about
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: your journey and Next Thing and and maybe to give
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: it kind of form, Mike, talk to us about how
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: your view of digital experience has has evolved over that.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Over that, Yeah, yeah, I have a a I would
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: say pretty unique. Next Think tenure. So I actually I
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: came in right out of college, so I hit the
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: I hit the the IT lottery. I like to say
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: I got. I got very lucky by jing by Jonny
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: next Sink right out of the gate, but I actually
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: joined in a sales motion, so I was on the
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: BDR front knocking down people's doors to try to answer
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: on why digital employee experience was not just a nice
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: to have, but it was something that they needed to have.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: And I always joke you when you used to make
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: those calls about next Think it was are you Netflix?
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Are you next Link?
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Or what are?
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Who were you calling from? There was there was zero
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: recognition at least in the US back in you know,
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: the twenty eighteens, twenty nineteen's.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Honey, we haven't paid the Netflix bill.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're they're calling us. They're they're going they're
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: going door to door now these days. But that very
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: quickly led to me understanding the products, really being infatuated
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: with what what Nextcinc Had learning the demo instance, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: I was able to go over and join the solution
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: consulting organization rounds right around covids are around twenty twenty.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: So I've now been in a a pre sales role
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: for going on six and a half years, and I've
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: made my way over into a player culture all these
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: days with some management and working on some strategic opportunities
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: on the East Coast.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: What stood out to you so much when you first
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: got in the demo environment? What was what is your
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: earliest memory of encountering the tech itself.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: I won't I won't bore you with the hours that
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: used to take up to set up an engine and
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: everything on the on prem instance for a demo kit,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: but the thing that I vividly remember is sitting on
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: some early Next Thing demos and flashing things like the
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: network view or the timeline view, and literally people's jaws
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: dropping on the zoom bridge on the I think back
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: then it was go to meeting, but we were seeing
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: people visually in awe of things that Nexxinc. Was able
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: to do and problems that it was solving that they've
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: been having for years, decades in some instances, So it
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: was cool to translate the things that were resonating with customers,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: but then understanding my own top tracks, getting my hands
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: on the on the product itself was very very eye
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: open and seeing all that next Thing could do and
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: not just kind of the blips that you were seeing
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: in a salesman.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: We discussed might the idea of you coming on maybe
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: on a on on a sort of recurrent basis to
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: give us sort of updates from the field as well. Yeah,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: around the state of digital friction, like it's causing, what's
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: causing it in the modern digital workplace, what's ameliorating it
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: in the same But I you know, I had a
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: really interesting conversation with a journalist just earlier this week,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: and they were kind of like digital friction.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, who cares, you know, who cares? Like?
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Who cares about digital friction? I thought, Joe, it's a
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: harsh question, but it's a pretty reasonable question. Yeah, why
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: does digital friction matter so much in your view? In
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty six? Mike, and would you say it's the
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: most consistent variable in dex over the past decade?
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Easily? Rights?
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: I would say one thousand percent. I don't know if
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: it's always been called digital friction. I quite like the term, honestly.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: I think a friction point is very, very tangible, very
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: visual for folks. But yeah, it's extremely important. I think
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: there's a couple of things going on in the ecosystem
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: right now that I've seen with all types of customers,
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: all types of verticals all all different, you know, size organizations,
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: but the single thread is that people just want to
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: get their job done.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: I show up to work every day. I want my
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: computer to work. I want my applications to work. I
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: honestly want it to mirror my mobile device, right, my iPhone,
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: my Android. I know how to work it. It always works,
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: and if it doesn't, I can just hard reset it
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: thirty seconds, you know, very quickly, and I'm back up
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: and running. There's an expectation I think with technology these
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: days that everything associated should work in that in that
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: same seamless, frictionless way. But the reality is that is
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: very very difficult for it teams to deliver because of
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: the complexities. Right, you talk about multiple different operating systems,
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: multiple different device types, physical, virtual, mobile, You have all
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: different types of applications on prem homegrown SaaS application is
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: where you're you know, you're losing a lot of the
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: historical control that you might have had ten fifteen years
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: ago with that application architecture. All of those things can
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: be friction moments, right. So some examples would be I'm
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: logging into my device every morning and it's taking three
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: minutes rather than thirty seconds. It's not a massive disruption,
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: but if you start to extrapolate that over you know,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: forty hours a week, you know, an entire year across
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: your population, that time loss is significant. Or things like
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: VPN disruptions we have, we have it internally, right, depending
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: on your vendor. You're trying to access a very critical application,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: you're prepping before a very important meeting, and you're met
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: with you know that that application is not discoverable, that
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: that error on the on the web page. It's defeating,
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: it's deflating, it's it's it's those disruptions that I think
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: cumulate with an end user to ultimately lead to attrition, right,
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: you know, not wanting to overperform. There's there's a number
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: of different effects that I've seen with those with those
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: microcosms of digital friction across the landscape. And I think
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: now in combination with decks, because it's an answer to
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: that friction, people are starting to identify that that problem
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: and even quantify it across the board.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: You speak very well, Mike.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I completely agree, and this is so so six and
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: a half years in a customer facing role, I'm interested
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: in how the definition of digital friction has changed and
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: how it stayed the same. You know, perhaps it's a
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: question of you know, getting on top of some issues.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Are the issues raving up? But I mean, how, how? How?
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: What contrast comes to mind when you consider those respective
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: landscapes of ven and.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: So I think the I think the root causes of
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: digital friction are exactly the same. I think it is
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: it is just simply technology disruptions that are surfacing to
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: the user. I think the problem now is the opportunities
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: for those for those friction points to surface are tenfold, right,
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: maybe twenty fold, depending on what type of role you're in,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: what type of applications you're using. I'm sure at some
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: point today we're going to we're going to talk about
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: artificial intelligence. But that's a a whole other wrinkle into
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: this digital friction ecosystem because of the you know, the
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: different angles that I can see it, right, I can.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: I can see it with VPNs, I can see it
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: with SaaS applications. I can see it with CPU and
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: GPU powered you know devices. Right, there's so many different
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: points where those little little points of disruption will will
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: come into play. The other piece is for me to
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: get my job done in this in this day and age.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: There's multiple tools that I need, so if those tools
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: are not working, you know, continuously and simultaneously, then there's
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: also going to be those you know, what they call
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: flow state interruptions. I can really get into a groove.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: I'm you know, I'm working on my on my on
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: my my Salesforce accounts and doing all the things that
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: I need to as a seller, but then something in
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: the application doesn't work, or even worse, I don't know
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: how something works in the application. That is also another
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: you know, you know, available way that friction is going
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: to come in from the user's perspective. But I really
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: think the quantity and the avenue where friction can come
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: to come to play have increased, but the actual causes
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: have stayed the same over the last fifteen ten fifteen years.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: What issues do you think we've consummately got on top of,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: if you know, and as long as people are aware
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: of the solutions. In particular, when you just contrast the
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: then and now.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Which ones, which ones do we have visibility into today?
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Is that you're asking, Yeah, where where do you feel
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: we've made the most like resounding strides in really being
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: able to manage digital friction? Because there's always going to
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: be as you say, with growing complexity, there's always.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Going to be new challenges.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: But yeah, where if you're listening and you're from a
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: digital workplace that's still struggling with X and Y, you
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: really really should have sorted that out three full five
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: years ago.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: I actually think the biggest gain that I've seen in
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: ecosystems or in organizations is with application adoption. So next
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: think obviously has some history there with you know, a
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: previous acquisition to talk about the DAPs, but I think
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: very complicated applications or high traffic applications. So think about
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: your HR solutions, your emergency medical record solutions, even you know,
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: sales tools or revenue generating applications. Oftentimes they're shipping with
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: in app guidance. So how do I go in and
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: actually get a task done in one of these tools
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: that's now going to be readily available to all of
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: your users. I think that has has significantly reduced some
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: points of digital friction. I think in custom applications you
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: can use true digital adoption platforms to overlay guided walkthroughs
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: and different and different elements across those applications. I think
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: that has been a significant increase or decrease in the
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: actual digital friction across organizations. I think there is still
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: a ton of work to be done on the technology side. Right,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: There's been monitoring solutions forever, right, let's call it the
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: last last two decades at least on the devices on
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: the network, on applecations. I think dex is uniquely positioned
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: to start to give that proactive visibility to users to
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: make sure that the users are not facing those those
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: friction points. We know where they are from monitoring solutions.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: But the actual resolution, I think is what's lagging in
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: contrast to the digital adoption piece. I think that has
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: some great benefits already in organizations.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Just a couple of minutes ago, like you mentioned flow state.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I've always loved the concept of flow state, and I
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: think look as an employee, we can as a person,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: we can all relate to it.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Right, we know what a flow state is.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Going back to six years ago when I started in decks, right,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I guess I always suspected it of being for one
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: of the better term term like a marketing concept that
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: maybe wasn't the top of an IT professional or an
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: IT team's genuine priority list.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: But as things have.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Evolved, an IT department start to look at their work
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: and responsibilities a little bit differently. Do you think that's change.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Do you think it is in fact then and or no,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: something that the IT departments are genuinely motivated by that
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: They genuinely have that as an aspiration, the maintenance of
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: focus and flow in the worker.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: I think so. I think the number of initiatives that
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: we're seeing about sometimes it's just general employee productivity, but
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: I think within that there there are those you know,
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: KPIs or or goals of achieving flow state, achieving the
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: most productive end user and the happiest end user as
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: as possible. Those initiatives are now coming from sea levels right.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it's CEO down to CIO. Sometimes it's actual CIOs
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: that are maybe more on the forefront of addressing that
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: that challenge. But I think, listen, there's there's a demand
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: from workers. I think especially as you know, uh, you know,
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: new workers enter that that workforce, there is an expectation
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: that technology should just work and that that should not
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: be the bottleneck for me getting my job done. There's
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: going to be other environmental dis eruptions for sure, but
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: my device, my applications, the things that are embedded in
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: my workflow should just work. And I think now that
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: is actually being recognized that the bar has risen a
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: little bit, right, the reliance on it is declining. Right,
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: people are more apt to talk to chatbots or does
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: self service try to fix things on their own, which
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: leads to a whole other set of challenges. But in
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: this conversation, absolutely right, I think there is there is
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: definite recognition that achieving flow state, keeping flow state, making
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: sure that my users are as happy and productive as
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: possible is right in the forefront of top technology, or
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: it goals for a lot of organizations.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Let's put the flow to the side for a moment
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: and think about sort of hard, tangible consequences of digital
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: friction in twenty twenty six. Where is it starting to
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: show up in the businesses you're working with in ways
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: that leaders can't ignore, you know, they can't look away.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say there's two avenues. The first, I
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: think is just straight attrition, which I know I mentioned earlier,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: But people do leave jobs because they can't get their
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: job done right, and it's it's mostly due to those
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: technology disruptions. If I'm working for a you know, financial institution,
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: maybe somewhere in Hertford, Connecticut. To do a little homage
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: to Tim. You know, if I'm if I'm not being
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: able to get my job done at this location, I
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: can go right across the street to another company who
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: maybe has a higher emphasis on technology and giving you
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: the tools necessary to get your job done. And if
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: I could be you know, one and a half two
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: times more productive, it's better for the business, it's better
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: for myself, more money in my pocket. But attrition and
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: just user frustration, I think is it should be top
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: of mind. But if you want to bring it to
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: a bigger business outcome, it leads it directly ties to
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: the bottom dollar. Right, If I'm in a revenue generating application,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: let's call it, you know, a you know, a call center, Right,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: people are using those applications in a retail store. If
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: my users getting disrupted for even three seconds every time
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: that they're they're on the phone with a with a
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: consumer with the customer of theirs at extrapolation between let's
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: call it, one thousand other other colleagues, now you're at
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: three thousand seconds every every disruption, you multiply that across
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: you know, forty hours a week and and do some
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: do some math there that is actual productivity loss that
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: is leading to less less money in more more money
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: out right, more more hours with handling time to your
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: to your to your support team, to your your call center,
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: all of those things, all of these little micro micro disruptions,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: these uh, these friction points ultimately do lead to uh,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: you know, productivity loss and and and dollars lost to
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: the business. So no matter which angle you want to
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: go to, usually I think people lead towards if we're
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: losing money, we need to fix it. And I think
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: that's that's top of mind for a lot of people
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: that we're talking to.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: And we could have said that anytime in the last
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: sort of six years, I imagine, but we are the
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: more recently. We're entering an error, profound, perhaps unprecedented technological
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: transformation with AI. You said we were going to touch
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: upon it, Mike, you were right, yes, And I guess
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: my way of framing the first question about this is
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: to what extent is the AI powered workplace reducing digital friction?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: And to what extent is it creating new categories of
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: it or new consequences of it.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: It's a great question, and it's a It's a very
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: fascinating topic because inherently AI should be making things easier, right,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: It should be helping with flow state, it should be
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: reducing those friction points because I'm offloading work, right, I'm
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: having you know, creation be done in it in a
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: different mechanism, all of the all of the other benefits
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: of AI. The challenge there is people are not able
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: to adopt it, right. People still are sometimes just adverse,
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: right They they they're not sure what they can do,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: what they can't do. I think a lot of organizations
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: right now are trying to identify what is their standard
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: going to look like for their AI offering. Are they
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: going to build something in house. Are they going to
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: supplement that with a copilot or a chat, gptor or
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: one of the other vendors. It's still very early stages,
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: I think for people to kind of become product experts,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: and you need people to be comfortable in the technology
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: to fully take advantage of all of the benefits. So
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: I think right now there are definitely portions of organizations
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: where they have people where AI tools are absolutely helping
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: and reducing digital friction. Right. I think people that are
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: comfortable in those tools, they use it in their personal life,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: they can translate it, and they're using a you know,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: maybe the tool of their choice in their in their
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: work life. That is absolutely helping to reduce that gap.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: But I think the large majority of the workforce, depending
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: on the you know, the company that we're talking about here,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: I think they're still in that in that period of
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know how to use these applications the right way, right,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know what prompts to use. I don't know
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: what I should say and what I shouldn't say because
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: of sensitive information. You know, in our organization, there is
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: still that lack of adoption and guidance within AI tools,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: just like there are for other applications that we were
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: talking about earlier that are leading to those those friction points.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Even even in some cases there might have been you know,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: a flow state that someone could have achieved without AI
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: that now they feel like they should inject AI in
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: and it's taking longer, right because they're trying to adopt that.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: They're trying to put it into their flow. But it's
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: just a little a little too early in some organizations
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: so for it to be a full benefit across.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Everything, which brings us back to the centrality of adoption,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: as you were discussing earlier, Right, So what are organizations
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: who are who are getting AI adoption right doing and
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: prioritizing and you know, what is the best practice.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: In Yeah, I think it really is dependent on the
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: organization and what type of information that you're dealing with.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I think it's tough to make you know, broad broad
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: sweeps here because of the different levels of AI governance
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: that organizations are going to have to deal with. So
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: putting that aside, I think having some some standardization on
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: a widely used tool, right, So whether that is a
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: copilot or a chat GPT, something that people may access
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: in their in their personal life. I think if you're
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: able to securely get that into your organization, that is
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: probably path the least resistance, right, because there's going to
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: be some level of familiarity, there's you know, just logo
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: recognition of these different tools where a larger percentage of
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: your organization is going to feel comfortable going in and
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: starting to leverage the you know, all of the benefits
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: that that that these tools have. I think if you're
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: if you're an organization that is maybe forced or you're
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: choosing to build your own AI. I commend it. I
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: think it's, you know, probably in a secure organization, the
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: right approach. I think putting an extreme emphasis on education,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: training in app guidance, if you can right is is
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: absolutely critical because if the first time that you interact
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: with the tool, if it's really bad, I'm not going
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: back to that tool unless I'm told I have to.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: But if the first time I go into that application,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: I'm told exactly how to navigate, I've given some examples,
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: I have, you know, some some some help icons across
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: the way that I can consistently go to to build
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: my build my confidence in that application. I am way
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: more apt to to inject that into my my everyday workflow.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: So I think making sure that there's great, great and
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: concise communication to your user population when those tools are
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: going out, that's the recipe for success on AI adoption.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: If you have a bad experience the first time, you
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: never go back. That might be the history of copilot
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: right now, Like I'm.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: Afraid for many people, Yeah, I think it's I think
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: that that adage goes goes even beyond technology, right, It's
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: you need that first interaction to be to be seamless.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Otherwise it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, right,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: And it takes a lot of work, a lot more work,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: you know, to get back in the good graces.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: It almost points to an evolving sense of what we
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: mean by digital friction.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: For instance, trust Like if a user how as a
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: hesitation around the degree to which they can trust another
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: than they're using. That's a kind of friction, isn't it.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: That's a kind of that's technology creating a border between
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: you and getting the job done with it, you know.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: And there's other forms of interruption and ambiguity that come
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: with AI too.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Right, absolutely.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: I mean I use my mom as an example in
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: some of these cases. So she's a she's a lifelong nurse,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: she's been a nurse for over forty years, still still
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: actively working. But you know, not every week, maybe every
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: every couple of weeks we talk about difficulties in workday,
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: or different AI tools that are being that are being
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: sent down, or just different applications that she's trying to
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: she's trying to keep up with. But it is it
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: is that trust, right? Is this correct?
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Is this this message, this email, this pop up that
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I'm seeing is this something that should be there for
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: for people that maybe are not as you know, verbose
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: in in their in their technology stack, or or just
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: understanding and using on a day to day basis, those
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: things are very difficult to understand right and see the
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: truth behind. So I think there's always that that guard up,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: you know, in in in in different folks around emerging technology,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: new technology that specifically with AI, I understand because of
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: its its worldwide application, not just it's it's workforce application,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: but it's definitely something that needs it needs addressing and
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: needs proper communication to make sure that it's going.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: The right way.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: And you know, in the commercial sector, there's a there's a,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: if you will, a sort of foundational assumption that the
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: businesses that will survive and compete and flourish in the
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: coming years are going to be the ones that allow
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: themselves to be the most transformed by AI. And therefore
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: that has to work on an individual level, right your
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: your your best employees hypothetically are the ones who are
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: who are most intricative of all this new technology, who
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: are able to absorb it, channel it, be the most
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: agile in its in its exploitation. And does that not
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: mean that digital friction, to bring it back to ourind
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: of main theme, grows in significance, you know, and anything
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: that gets in the way of that kind of ideal
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: employee and what they could be doing grows in significance.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And as you say, extrapolated across the business could become
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: detrimental to the business's own competitive agility.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: It could, right, I think, even even over rotating to
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: it to a certain extent. That's why specifically with with AI,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I think putting in guidelines on this is what you
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: should be using AI for and this is something that
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: you probably shouldn't be using AI for is very important
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: as people are starting to inject that into the way
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: that they're working. But but yeah, one hundred percent, I
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: think it is a It is probably the biggest question
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: mark in the digital friction landscape on will this overall
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: help or hinder productivity and digital friction because as I
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, I think it. I think it does clean
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: up a lot of the a lot of that of
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: the work, a lot of the you know, the repetitive
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: tasks that that people or doing, uh, depending on how
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: you're applying AI. But it does not fix everything, right,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: it doesn't. It doesn't fix performance issues. It doesn't fix
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: fix the network, It doesn't fix other things that are
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: still going to be out there. So I think there's
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: a there there. There should be some not hesitance, but
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: there should be some some governance around, you know, putting
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: our pulling all of our eggs in one basket right
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: when when it comes to the AI function, but it
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: definitely will will start to, you know, implode the friction pieces.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Believe it or not, Mike, we had a he may
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: have listened. We had an AI expert K for Butterfield
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: joining us last week, and she was in system that
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: employers were going to have to start being quite clear
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: about talk about what to use AI for and what
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: not to use AI for. Do not necessarily use your
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: professional AI as a quote boyfriend or girlfriend was was
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: was stressed to us as something.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: People people will find a way.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Tom.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: That's that's it's a new world, Mike, It's a new
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: I can't keep up. I don't know if I want to,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: but you know, I I guess there's a there's a
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: question of professional efficiency here. You know, there is an
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: effort or a vision of turning us all into sort
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: of maximally efficient productivity machines, and that makes digital friction
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: become more visible. Doesn't it like it's going to stand
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: out more as we become more direct, more efficient, more
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: effective in what we do.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it does. That's a that's an interesting
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: one for me because I think you're I think you're right.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: If digital friction is a is a topic, obviously removing
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: the friction points should should also follow. And if you're
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: removing all the friction points, then I should just be
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: a fully functioning uh you know, robot for lack of
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: a better term from from A Yeah, every everything, everything works.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: I don't need to take a break. I'm good. I
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: think it's more in depth than that, right. I think
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: when when you're in those those those flow states, right,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: those those thirty minute, those hour sections where you are
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: really grooving and getting your work done, that's where we
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: want to make sure that we are as minimally disruptive
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: to the end user as possible. The goal for removing
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: digital friction isn't that you're gonna you're never going to
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: have an IT problem or you're never going to have
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: an issue within the applications that you're that you're using
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: on a day to day basis. I think I think
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: next sinc and dex players would like that, and I
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: think eventually we might get there, but uh, the user
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: is still at the forefront and making them productive, making
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: them happy should be the outcome of reducing digital friction
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: rather than the machine esque way that you should be working.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Also goes through the facet of it doesn't matter who
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: the user is, what type of device they're using, what
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: type of applications they want to use, We as an
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: IT organization should be able to give that person those
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: tools if that's how they think that they're going to
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: be the most most productive. And I think if you
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: have all of this, this visibility across all of these
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: different device types, if you're able to help with application
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: guidance inside these different tools, I think you can achieve
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: that autonomy right between the different types of users that
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: you have, you know, young, old, technologically advanced, not technologically advanced,
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: people that prefer an iPad versus a you know, a Lenovo,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: you name it. I think that's where the information should
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: be used and continuously driving those flow states rather than
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: trying to eliminate every single digital friction because you're going
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: to you're going to drive yourself mad with with the
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: rate of change in technology, there's always going to be
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: things to fix, but let's just try to reduce the
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: visibility to the end user. Is that the overall goal.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: It comes back to that core kind of the core
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: value of dex right, which is what is the employee
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: experiencing as a central metric, you know, And I think
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: arguably with a technology as powerful as AI, the only
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: way to perhaps really objectively measure its impact is with
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: the subjective metric of user experience, you know. Bring it
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: back to the human beings who are who are to
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: be empowered by this technology fundamentally.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, no one, no one knows how productive
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: you were before AI, besides yourself, right, there's no there's
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: no uh uh you know magic number there that I
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: think organizations maybe would love to have to talk about
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: the the ROI on AI tools, DOUL those bills come
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: back from from copilot or whoever you're using. People are
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: going to need that answer pretty quickly. But you're you're
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: one hundred percent right. The user knows how much more
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: productive they are, how much how many more you know,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: projects they're able to accomplish and achieve in a shorter
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: amount of time. So I think it's critical to make
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: the user part of this journey with with adoption and
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: reducing digital friction, making sure that you're you're getting consistent
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: feedback from them. Right, what's working? What's not working? Do
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: you feel more productive or less productive? Hopefully it's more productive,
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: but if it's less productive, Now you have a roadmap, right,
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: you have something to to kind of go in and
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: start to work on.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: What about you, Mike, do you think you're more productive
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: in the AI era? Less productive?
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Have the same?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: What do you reckon?
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: I think I absolutely am. I think there's a there's
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: enhancements in the next think products as we know, and
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: I'm in the product just about every day. That I
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: think makes me much more efficient in any type of
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: engagement with the customer. Right, Showing things that are friction
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: points in their organization becomes a lot easier with the
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: applications that AI or that nextink is using with AI.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: And then on a day to day basis, I think
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: there is a mense, immense value that you can you
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: can get out of prepping for a customer you call, right,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: whether that is a background on an organization, what are
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: their initiatives? What are their AI initiatives, maybe even even
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: more in the forefront. I think that the preparation in
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: both types of those customer facing instances has been drastically
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: drastically reduced because of the way that we're using AI
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: at next think, So yes, I can, I can confidently
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: confirm be more.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Productive between us.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Sorry, don't tell anybody, but my main metric is I
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: work late less in a era of an eas There.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: You go, isn't it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Isn't that just a perfect tell though?
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: That's not something that.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not more productive.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I'm just a productive but it takes me.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Hey, I love it. I let on work life balance
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: is important that Tom. I think that's another when you
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: talk about digital friction. If those things do compound, you
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: do have people that are working late that right, that
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: have a less of a of a work life balance.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: So that's another positive outcome, not just employee attrition. So
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: I think you, I agree, bring up a great point.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: I agree, but I do I don't want to just
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: don't tell our bosses, all right, secret safe with me,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: keep it between us.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: I got you.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I did want to ask you about the I T ticket.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: But do you know what I think the future of
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: the I T ticket, the present state of the IT ticket.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: I think you should come back and join us. I
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: would love it next quarter to discuss specifically the I
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: T ticket and the state of the I T Ticket
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: That would be wonderful.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: Because it's going away. It's going away.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: You think a little teaser there, that's what we might
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: be getting into next time around. Because I've called these
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: you know, we've got now one episode a month where
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: we have like recurrent guests, my often my friends from
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: the company. But I had to I had to call
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: it something, Mike, and I just ended up calling it
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: one to one. It sounds really full, doesn't it Like
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: I'll see you when you're next one to one. I
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: think I might have to think of a friendlier way
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: of framing it. But it's been a pleasure to have
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: you on this your first one to one. We look
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: forward to having you back very soon.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Mike C Love, Thank you very much.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Tom. I really appreciate it. I look forward to coming
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: back as well.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: That's it for this week's deck show.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: We'll be back next week, and if you don't already,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: be sure to follow the show so you don't miss
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: an episode until next time.