Latest / WGBB Sports Talk New York / Trade Talks Heat Up: Yankees and Mets Face Crucial Decisions

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Trade Talks Heat Up: Yankees and Mets Face Crucial Decisions · WGBB Sports Talk New York

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The views expressed in the following program.
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Do not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb.
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Live from the WGBB studios in Merrick, New York, this is Sports Talk New York.
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Good evening and welcome to Long Island's WGB Sports Talk New York, 95.9 FM 12:40am on your dial, streaming everywhere live and via podcast.
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I'm your host Mike Gwinone, joined as always by my co host and my partner Chris Caputo.
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516-623-1240 is our number again, that's 516-623-1240.
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We have a power packed hour, three guests tonight.
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Mike Trezor used to be on with us in Sports Talk New York.
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He was my former partner on Podcasts Live radio.
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He was host of this program.
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Happy to have him on just a second.
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Newsday reporter Brian Heyman will be on talking about Mets and Y.
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And then we'll be joined in the second half hour by the legend Dick Hoops Weiss who is everything college, basketball, football and anything you could want.
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But before we do any of that, welcome once again to Chris Caputo.
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Cappy, how you doing tonight?
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Good.
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How's it going, Mike?
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Doing good, man.
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22 hours to the trade deadline.
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As you just mentioned before we came.
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On, lots to talk about as far as the New York baseball is concerned and what teams want to add or possibly subtract.
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And this should be a fun show.
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Absolutely.
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I mean basically the Mets, you know, after, after tomorrow will kind of not be a story anymore.
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It'll be more about the Yankees.
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We'll be getting into football.
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But before we do any of that, we're going to bring on, as I mentioned earlier, our old friend Mike Treza.
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Back to the program to talk a little Yankees.
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Trez, welcome.
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Mike and Chris, how you doing, bud?
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Hey, Chris and Mike, how are you?
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You guys are great.
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I catch you whenever I can.
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And thanks for a few minutes.
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Absolutely.
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We appreciate you.
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It's, it's great to have you back on.
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I know there's lots of Yankee stuff you had asked me last week and we talked about you coming on.
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I wonder if anything, has anything changed since we kind of texted last week.
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Are you more enthused, less enthused, angry?
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The floor is yours, my friend.
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Well, I got to tell you, Mike, if you would have asked me a week or two ago, I would have said catching is the most pressing need for the Yankees.
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However, that equation changed a little bit with the Bellinger injury over the last few days and really the last week what we've been looking at is just to get a big bat wherever they could get one and from
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whomever they could get one.
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And obviously we saw today that they acquired Luis Garcia from the Nationals again.283 hitter, 23 home runs this year, 76.
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The only problem it really presents is it's kind of, I guess a good problem to have is that you can send Goldschmidt back to the bench for a little while.
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The other thing that it does is really now you have seven infielders.
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If you want to include Caballero, you have eight infielders.
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Yeah.
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So I think in the short term what it's going to do, it's going to necessitate Schumann probably being out of the equation because with him that's 14 offensive players and I don't think they want to do that.
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Right.
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And offense has been the problem here without, you know, any, any run scoring production.
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Obviously the injuries have played a big part.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, Garcia's.
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They have another year of control, I think with him as well.
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Yes.
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And so again, I think the equation became just get a big bat wherever.
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You can get him from.
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And even if he is another infielder, we'll figure that out along the way.
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And so when you look at the outfield headers that were available, Mike, I mean the options weren't really, really attractive.
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I mean there was some talk about Joe Adele from the Angels, Lars Newt bar.
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I mean, maybe if I'm, you know, if I'm hungry tomorrow, I'll stop and get a new bar from the, the gnc.
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I mean, Tyrone Taylor, you guys.
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Buddy from the Met.
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Yeah.
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Was talked about.
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And also Taylor Ward.
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So again, once Lane Thomas went from the Royals to the Braves, he was off the table.
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The, the outfield options that were out there were really not that attractive.
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I mean, when you look at the fact that there's only really half a dozen teams in all of MLB that are out of the playoff race, again, not a lot there that you were dying to acquire.
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Again, we're talking with Mike Treza about the Yankees.
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Mike, the offense has been really bad.
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How much longer can they go without some of the big guns?
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And you know, not having Aaron judge for more than 60 games and you know, also missing the bat of Stanton for long periods of time.
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Is there any way that they can kind of just fall their way into September and just hope that some of these options are there for them later on?
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Or do you think that some of the trades that they have to make in the next 24 hours are to address if those people are not available.
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You know, I think the approach they have to take.
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Chris and again, Yankee fans are not really dying to hear this.
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I think you have to assume that you're not going to see Judge again this year.
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I think the Yanks have been very tight lipped about his progress.
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As you guys know, if you've ever had one, rib injuries are very, very tough.
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I mean it's a month before you can sneeze without being in great pain and then you have to start up moving again, start up baseball activities again.
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So I think the best approach is just to assume you're not going to see Judge again.
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If you get anything out of in the last week or two of the season, that's a bonus and maybe even ditto with Stanton.
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I mean Bellinger, I can't see it being more than a month and they're going to have to try their best to hold down the fort until then.
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But you're right, the offense has been very, very anemic.
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So the Yanks are really in a tough spot.
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Nobody's going to feel sorry for them, but nobody's going to be dying to give away really good players to them either.
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So Mike, even if these injuries kind of play out the way you just discussed, the Yankees, still, they have a chance and who knows what they can do in the American League.
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But it really is, I think it kind of tempers what they're going to do with this trade market because really if Judge doesn't come back and you got Bellinger and Stan, how good a can they really be?
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So are you going to go all in or are you going to at least make a move like this today just to at least show that you are, you know, you're playing to win, but you're not.
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You're somewhat realistic.
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I mean, New York is a place where you're always all in to win.
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But I mean really, how, how much can they go?
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That's the really interesting part, Mike.
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I think that's why they're in such a.
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Why this thing is going to unfold in such a fascinating way.
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I know the middle lane is always the least interesting to people, but you don't want to say, hey listen, we're going to be sellers at the deadline and you brought up the exact reason why the American League stinks
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this year.
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Everybody knows that there really are no good teams.
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So let's just say you improve the offense over the next day or so as much as you can and you do get a little bit back from Stanton and or judge at the end.
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I mean, you guys can easily see, so can I.
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The Yanks making a run through the American League.
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And even if you get absolutely smoked by the Dodgers and swept by them, I mean, you know, how many fan bases wouldn't like to say, well, we were in the World Series two of.
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The last three years.
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Okay, you didn't win either one, but you were there.
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Yep.
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And I think the starting pitching is pretty solid at this point.
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I'm just wondering.
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I think the bullpen's been kind of eaten up a lot.
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They're not very good in extra inning games.
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Do you think that Yankees need to make a move for another arm like they did last year by going out and getting guys like Doval and Bednar and you know, trying to stack up extra arms?
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I wouldn't do that, Chris.
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I don't think that's the most pressing need right now.
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If you guys have seen the Yankees new secret weapon is this guy on held civil.
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I know your next question.
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Mike who Angelique has only been in 15 games, but I got to tell you, he has been absolutely lights out.
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And if I were another team and the Yankees were asking me for someone significant that could help them offensively, I might be asking them back for George Lombard Jr.
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And or on health.
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So to answer your question, Chris, the bullpen's been kind of topsy turvy this year.
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Guys that you didn't think were going.
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To play a role, a big role at the beginning.
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Paul Blackburn, Brett Hedrick.
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These guys have come on to take on really, really big roles.
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Brett Hedrick, I mean he's been a revelation this year.
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I'm not sure he's not ahead of Tim Hill as our top lefty out of the pen.
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So I think the Yanks do have enough.
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The question is, would they want to part with one of those guys if somebody asks for them to bring in another big bat over the next 24.
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So Tarek School goes to, you know, from Detroit to the Dodgers and we can, we can talk all day about that.
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You know, that's obviously that was, that was the big name and starting pitching not the issue for the Yankees.
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But is there another player out there that you feel like is a big splash that could happen for the Yankees?
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I mean again it fits needs and whatever else, but is there, is there someone that you could see just that they'll try or they could make this, you know, move the needle kind of move or is it just
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going to be this Kind of let's put the places, put the pieces in place, just like we talked about.
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Is there anybody big that you could see?
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Well, again, if they want to turn their attention back to catcher, which I think they will over the next 24 hours.
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You could take a look at Tyler Stephenson.
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You could take a look at Ryan Jeffers from the Twins.
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Obviously Hunter Goodman is a guy whose name was mentioned from the rockies.
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Now those 31 home runs, you got to take that with a grain of salt because he does play in Colorado, right.
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And then the other guy that might be interesting is Ruthman from the Orioles.
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I don't know how willing the Orioles are going to be to trade Rushman, who's a former All Star, to their division foe, but again, I might take a look at him.
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When you talk about a catcher hitting.269 as compared to Wells is 160, you know, is that an upgrade for sure.
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So I might look around there a little bit more over the next week, over the next day or so.
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There's a name though, Mike.
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You didn't mention it.
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It wouldn't be a long ride to Yankee Stadium.
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That's Francisco Alvarez.
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You know, not that he is, you know, the cure all for everything, but when he's healthy, the young man can hit.
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He can.
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But I don't really see him as being a fit for the Yankees right now with those other players, again, I think they're maybe just a little bit better fit.
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You know, I hear people say all the time that it's very difficult to bring in catchers midseason.
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In addition to trying to give you something offensively, they also have to learn the staff, etc.
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Etc.
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So I don't necessarily see Alvarez being a fit in that regard, although I do agree with you, Mike.
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The guy can, the guy can hit.
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So the Yankees at this point, six and a half up on other teams in the wild card, Red Sox right behind him.
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What has been your, your, your mindset as the Red Sox, I believe in their last 32 games are 27 5.
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Is it fear, excitement, like a little bit of worry, or is it just like, wow, where did this come from?
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Well, listen, I don't, I don't see how any team cannot have your attention after the terrible start that they had.
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Chris, to be in the cellar and now to be on that kind of run for the last month plus is definitely got your attention again.
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Am I anxious to go up to Fenway and have a one game playoff with the Red Sox?
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No, absolutely not.
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Would I be Excited about seeing them in the three game series somewhere down the line.
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Yes, I think that would be fun.
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That would be exciting.
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But you know, I think the law of averages says they're probably going to cool off a little bit between now and the end of the regular season.
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So based on everything we've spoken about, Mike, short of a World Series appearance, would you be happy?
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You know, making the championship series is it.
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You know, obviously we said it's realistic because the American League is not strong this year.
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But you know, if, if no more moves are made, are you okay with that and take your chances here on out, or is it like, hey, I mean, you got to do something.
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I think the Yankees really have to put a little bit of the pedal to the metal in terms of upgrading the offense, specifically between now and tomorrow, and then hope that they can get whatever they can get.
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No, I wouldn't be happy with an early exit.
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I think that the other thing you have to take into consideration, Mike, is the age of some of these guys.
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I mean, Judge, when next spring training comes, will be 35 years old.
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Look at the front end of your rotation.
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You've got Cole, who's now 35, and Freed, who's now 32.
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I mean, how many years do we want to click off these guys?
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Baseball lives before we get back to the World Series.
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So again, I think they've got to put a lot of eggs in this basket over the next day or so, Steve, we can get an upgrade at catcher and, and you know, just hope that we can get something
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back from Judge and Stanton.
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Even though, again, I think we should start with the premise that we're not really going to get a lot from those guys.
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If you have to win games 3 to 2, 2 to 1.
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I know that that's not a comfortable thought going into the playoffs, but if you look at this road trip, they were just on 6 and 4.
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They talked about it at the end of today's game.
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They won one game, one nothing.
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Two games, two to one, One game, two nothing and one more game, three to two.
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This New York Yankees we're talking about.
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So it's not comfortable that to win those kind of games, but if that's what you need to do in order to win.
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Chris mentioned it.
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They still do have a really good starting staff, especially with Freed now back in the mix and their bullpen, I think is really amongst the best in baseball as it is right now.
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Well, Mike, it's been great having you back on.
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We can't thank you enough.
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You're welcome.
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At any point.
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You're a well known voice across Long island and obviously here on the radio waves and we'll be keeping our fingers crossed for the Yanks because certainly our Mets aren't going anywhere.
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But it's always a great story and we appreciate your insight and like we said, you're always welcome here back on the show.
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Thank you so much, guys.
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Have a great show and great to talk to you again.
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Absolutely.
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Thank you.
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Mike Trezor once again returning back to the show and you know, giving us.
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Hey, putting it all out there.
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Exactly.
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And now we're going to take a little bit of even a deeper dive into New York baseball and and we're very happy to be joined right now by Brian Heyman, who is a reporter for Newsday and who covers
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obviously both the Mets and Yankees and can give us that expert opinion.
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He's in the trenches every day.
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Brian, this is Mike Goudone, Chris Caputo here on wgbb.
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Welcome to the program.
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Do we have you, Brian?
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Hey, Brian, can you hear us?
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I can hear you now.
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There we go.
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Sounds good.
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All right.
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Thanks for joining us, Brian.
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Oh, happy to be on.
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Thanks so much.
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Absolutely.
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So you've been around the Mets the last couple of days and what's the latest that you've kind of heard?
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We obviously know Freddy Peralta was traded to the race today.
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Any other insights you can give us about either what you've heard or what you think might happen?
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Well, what I think might happen I think is sort of the obvious.
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The expiring contracts, there's no need to keep them around at this point.
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So you know, the guys like Brooks Raley, the reliever, you know, he pitched today and you know, talking to him after the game, he knew this was it for him.
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He was just waiting to see where he's going.
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So.
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And you know, Tyrone Taylor, the outfielder, he will is on an expiring contract, so he'll probably be going.
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Clay Holmes pitched a rehab start today instead of putting him out against the Marlins even though he was ready.
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And you know, he calls it pretty likely that he's going because there's no real extension talks that have been going on lately.
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So those are the obvious guys.
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And then, you know, it gets interesting in that, I mean, you know, Holmes is a valuable asset with Scuba going to the Dodgers.
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You know, he's one of the best remaining starters on the market there who's available.
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And you know, and then you just, you know, you have a guy like Luke Weaver, excellent reliever, having an Excellent year, tested in New York in a big market.
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You know he can handle the post season pressure and you know he's having a great year.
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So it becomes a sort of question and the Mets want to contend next year and yet they have this valuable asset that they can move and they need to restock the farm system.
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They need guys, prospects that they could maybe flip in the off season for major league ready talent.
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So that's another decision that has to be made by David Stearns.
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The problem is that he hasn't made a lot of good decisions and that's why they're in this mess at the moment.
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So Brian, I heard you in the short fourth inning that was ended on a, I believe a pitch clock violation in the fourth inning today on the radio.
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So we're going to give you a little bit more time here.
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But you know, you did say something about this could be a trade deadline that kind of puts the Mets on whether or not they're going to start having good prospects in their system or if this really is a
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major setback.
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Like where are the Mets going from here?
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Do you think that the Mets can pull something out?
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I'm always a guy of like, hey, I'd rather have one top 15 prospect from another team instead of three guys, which at this point the Mets have gotten all prospects from other teams between 15 and 27.
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Not terrible.
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But do you think the Mets can pull something out of their hat in the next 24 hours to get a.
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Big time guy as far as a big time prospect?
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You know, I think they, you know, if they're willing to move homes, which they are, and if they're willing to move Weaver.
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Yeah, I think they could get maybe, you know, somewhere in the high top 100 prospect for one of those guys.
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But you know, it's in the way things have gone the last more than calendar year and with all the moves that have gone wrong, they're kind of like, you know, David starts in a phase right now where he's
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a kind of a prove it guy that he can make a good decision.
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Now he used to make good decisions when he was in a small market in Milwaukee, but it hasn't been so, so great here.
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And I mean you look at some of the guys he picked up and you know, he went after guys who had an injury track record and it, and it blew up in his face.
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And then he went on about run prevention.
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That was the big goal.
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And then he gets, you know, Bichette and Polanco and is moving them to New Positions, the first and third.
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It just didn't make any sense.
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Now, as it turned out, Bichette has been very adequate at third base and probably better at third than he is at short, than he was at short in first base.
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They need to fix.
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So it is possible that they, you know, that they could get a high level prospect for, you know, one of those two guys.
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But, you know, we'll, you know, we'll see.
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We'll just have to see.
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But because they, you know, it's, it just has not, not gone well.
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And, and then there's so much, not really in the clubhouse, but there's so much negativity floating, floating around the team now and so much kind of fan disgust with what's going on that they really need to start making
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some good decisions.
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As I said on the Mets radio broadcast today, I think it's a really important time and that's, you know, history at the moment.
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You know, are they going to continue kind of floundering between bad and mediocre or are they going to start making some good decisions personnel wise and get on the road to, you know, being a serious contender?
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Once again, Brian Heyman from Newsday is joining us talking Mets and shortly Yankees.
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Brian, just one last thing on the Mets before we move on.
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Francisco Lindor's name was kind of dangled out there a little bit.
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Do you think that that was legitimate or was that just something that was good fodder for newspaper and Internet discussions?
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Well, I think, you know, they kind of, it kind of came out that the Mets had this list of only a few Untouchables and it was McLean and Christian Scott and the two outfielders, Yuling and Benjamin Soto.
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And Lindor was not mentioned in the Untouchables.
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And he's, you know, he's in his early 30s, he's having a very down year, both offensively and defensively.
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But he's, you know, he has no trade status and he also has about $160 million left to pay him.
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So, you know, I think kind of in this, you know, trade deadline time, he would be hard to move if, if they wanted to.
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And especially when no one knows what the collective bargaining agreement the new one is going to be.
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I mean, are we even going to start the season on in time next year?
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So no one's knowing what the salary limitations are going to be for teams.
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And I think people are wary of that.
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You know, maybe when that comes to light, maybe there'll be more of a market in the off season.
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But I'd be, you know, I'd be very surprised if he's going anywhere by tomorrow.
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Brian, you've been around the team the last couple of days.
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It's one of those, we kind of know guys are going to be leaving and only a couple of them have gone so far.
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What?
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Again, we're asking for your opinion.
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What's the atmosphere been like?
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Is it one of those, like, hey, we're sad to see guys like, you know, Raley and Taylor and Holmes and Weaver and guys like that go, or is it just dejected?
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I mean, we had a 1986 celebration yesterday and that ballpark was dead.
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I mean, there were people there to see some of these players, but that should have been a packed house in most years.
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What's the atmosphere been like in that locker room?
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You don't, you don't get a negative vibe walking in there.
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You know, the guys have been asked constantly, you know, what's this?
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You might be traded your thoughts.
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So it brings it to the forefront for them.
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I think they, you know, you know, it's human nature to think, where am I going to be in a couple of days for a lot of them.
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But I think, you know, for the most part, you know, you haven't really sensed a downcast atmosphere, even with the losing and all this trade, you know, talks swirling around the team after the trade deadline passes and they
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bring in more young guys and they're struggling some more.
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Well, you know, I think it could be, you know, they're going to have to show some mental toughness, the veterans, to get through the season.
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You know, it didn't, it doesn't come, it didn't come across as a negative vibe the last few days.
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And I agree.
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I was at the, you know, I wrote about the 1986 World Series celebration yesterday, and it was a nice ceremony and it's good to see those guys, those.
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One of the great.
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Well, game six was maybe the greatest comeback I've ever seen in sports, and I've watched a lot of games, but you're right, the ballpark was not tacked for that.
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And, you know, in a way, I think that's part of, you know, what's gone on with the losing and kind of the fan, you know, discontent with what's happened with this team.
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So, Brian, we're going to just switch gears here a little bit to the Yankees.
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They made a trade today, bringing in Luis Garcia Jr.
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From the Washington Nationals.
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What's your thoughts now?
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You're going to spend a little time with them now as they're heading back east and legitimately, what do you think their chances are and how many more moves, if any, do you kind of see on the horizon for
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them?
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You know, I think if they don't get judged back, their chances are not too good.
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But it's, it's amazing that, you know, he goes down and everyone just forgets that it hit.
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It's just strange.
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So they're really struggling offensively.
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I think they're going to try very hard to get more offense in here.
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They want another bat.
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I think they want a right handed catcher, Austin Wells, another guy who, he's been a little better lately, but you know, it's been an epic struggle for him to hit the ball.
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And I think, you know, the bullpen.
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Is generally good, but I think they.
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Want to beef that up some more as well.
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So I can see them making some more moves tomorrow.
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But, you know, I think the key is getting judged back.
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And no one knows when Stanton's coming back.
26:39
I mean, he's supposed to hit offline pitching this week, but he's for big guy.
26:44
You know, his body's betrayed him so many times and he's always seems to be hurt.
26:50
Pretty much said that with the Luis Garcia deal.
26:55
You know, I think he's, I think I see him as a platoon player playing first or designated hitter, not the greatest defensively, not, you know, his splits.
27:10
You know, he, I think he needs to face right handed pitching.
27:14
You know, he's had a pretty good year for the Nationals.
27:17
Provides power.
27:18
He leads the National League in slugging percentage.
27:22
So I think he's, he's helpful.
27:24
But you know, they, they have two of these, two of these guys already, you know, with Goldsmith and Ben Rice.
27:31
And then what if Stanton comes back and then there's Garcia in the next.
27:35
I'm not sure where he fits in, but for now he could be, you know, platoon at first base.
27:41
And they desperately need some more offense to go with their good starting pitching.
27:47
Last one for you.
27:49
The trade of Tyrek Skubal to the Dodgers.
27:51
How does this change baseball and is it really bad?
27:56
You know, I'm not, I wasn't really bothered by it.
28:00
I see how all these clubs are, are bothered by it and feel like they can't compete with the Dodgers endless bankroll.
28:09
But you know, they've done a good job with their farm system too and they have prospects to trade.
28:14
But I wasn't bothered by this trade that, you know, this great team is just adding another guy because, you know, other teams could have given a good package and better prospect package and he could have gone there to
28:26
another another team.
28:28
I think the Dodgers are playing the game as it is now and they're doing it well.
28:32
But you know, I think in this new negotiation world, there's going to be some sort of attempt to rein teams, big spending teams in.
28:44
Well, Brian, we can't thank you enough for joining us tonight.
28:46
We hope that both the Mets and Yankees give you at least, you know, something positive here down the stretch to write about.
28:51
I'm sure the Yankees certainly will and hopefully the Mets will keep it interesting.
28:56
And your insight's been really, you know, welcomed for us tonight.
28:59
And again, hopefully it's interesting for you down the stretch before we wind into the fall.
29:07
I mean, I expect the Yankees to be in the playoffs, so that'll they should do okay.
29:12
And the Mets, it's going to be might not be too pretty the rest of the way, so but thanks so.
29:18
Much, guys for having me on.
29:19
Absolutely.
29:20
Appreciate it, Brian, Our pleasure.
29:21
We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to welcome the legend Dick Hoops Weiss with us for the second half of the program here on wgbv, Sports Talk New York.
29:50
You are listening to Sports Talk New York.
29:53
Tune in every Sunday night at 8pm on Long Island's WGB, broadcasting on 95.9 FM and 12:40am or listen live online at wgbbradio.com stay connected to sports Talk New York on WGBB by following us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram
30:12
at WGBB Sports Talk, you are listening to Sports Talk New York on Long Island's wgb.
30:22
And now back to the show.
30:28
Welcome back to WGBB Sports Talk New York.
30:31
Our next guest is one of the most respected voices in college basketball.
30:34
For more than four decades, he's covered the sport at every level, from conference tournaments, Final Fours recruiting and the NBA draft.
30:41
His work has appeared in New York Daily News, espn, the Philadelphia Daily News, and numerous national outlets.
30:46
And today, he continues to break news and provide insight through his website and social media, whether it's coaching changes, recruiting, conference realignment, everything going on.
30:56
March Madness has changed again.
30:57
Few people have the perspective that he does.
30:59
We're thrilled to welcome veteran college basketball journalist Dick Weiss.
31:02
Dick, thanks so much for joining us tonight.
31:05
Hey, it's my pleasure.
31:06
Chris, how are you?
31:07
All right, Mike and Chris here.
31:11
Mike, how are you doing?
31:12
I'm doing great, Dick.
31:14
And it's really, it's an honor for us to have you on.
31:17
Let's, let's not a problem My pleasure.
31:19
Guys, let's start about.
31:20
You've covered college basketball for decades.
31:23
Besides the paycheck.
31:25
Yeah, besides the paycheck.
31:27
What keeps you passionate about the sport after all these years?
31:31
You know, that's a good question.
31:33
I really like the games themselves.
31:36
Although I will say this, the last couple years have been harder to fall in love with it because there is so much change in rosters every year.
31:50
You don't really get a chance to see a kid grow up in a program anymore because more than likely they're either gone to the highest bidder on a regular basis or they're using the portal to try to enrich
32:05
themselves.
32:05
I mean, college players used to play for the name on the front of the jersey.
32:11
Now they play for the paycheck that they're getting.
32:16
Hasn't been interesting, but I will say this.
32:19
I think it's created a lot more fluidity and it's made it a lot more interesting.
32:26
Maybe not in the Final Four, but just in terms of teams getting to the Final Four.
32:33
I think it's more difficult than ever before to make that quantum leap in the second weekend of the tournament.
32:41
Yeah.
32:41
And as you said, you know, things are always changing.
32:43
Do you think we're moving toward an era where roster continuity is becoming almost impossible with guys leaving for whatever the reason is?
32:51
I think the biggest problem you have is aside from these huge mega conferences like the SEC, the Big Ten and maybe to some extent the Big 12 and the, and the ACC, it's really hard for schools to come
33:07
up with the money to stay competitive on a high level.
33:12
I mean, roster construction anymore.
33:15
People used to think, well, I can get it done with 10 million.
33:19
Now people are talking about 20 million.
33:21
If you really want a top 15 to 20 team.
33:26
And maybe even more than that.
33:28
I mean, it doesn't seem to bother the teams at the top.
33:33
And teams like Duke and Florida have the money to compete for a national championship on a regular basis.
33:41
But a lot of these schools are going to get pushed out of the way and I think it's sad.
33:47
I think it's sad for the mid major teams that are limited in their ability to get into the tournament.
33:54
Guys, when I look at the Atlantic 10, they get one bid.
34:00
Last year they got lucky.
34:02
St.
34:02
Louis got upset, they got two bids.
34:05
I think they.
34:08
I would love to see the NCAA put in a rule where you have to, to have a winning record in conference play during the regular season in order to be eligible to play postseason at the highest level is
34:22
the way it is now.
34:23
I mean, two years ago, the SEC had 14 teams get into the tournament.
34:29
Last year, Big County, SEC, both had double figure teams.
34:34
And it's, the system is rigged against people that are on national television because they limit the amount of time are willing to go on the road and play a mid major who's trying to make its own reputation.
34:50
Now, Dick, I wanted to talk about that.
34:52
What you're saying is the NCAA expanded the field from 68 to 76 teams, but they're adding more teams.
34:59
Like what you're talking about the teams that are, you know, 7 and 11 in conference and they're just, they're not adding, they're not adding in that team who was, you know, on the bubble, the Miami of Ohio, who,
35:10
you know, 32 and one going in.
35:12
They're adding more of those, you know, teams that maybe were on a bubble just to add more teams.
35:18
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
35:20
If you told me that they were going to use this expanded number to become more inclusive with teams who aren't necessarily from the biggest conferences, I would be a lot happier with expansion right now.
35:37
Last year I think we had problems finding 68 teams that belong the tournament and I agree they got shoveled into it, guys.
35:47
So Dick, I'm sorry, go ahead.
35:49
And what the other thing that concerns me is I can't control the selection committee.
35:55
But it personally bothered me last year when the Big east, who had two legitimate teams that could make a run at a Final Four, both got put into the same regional.
36:07
Right.
36:08
That makes it almost impossible.
36:11
I mean, now Connecticut won on a fluke play at the end against Duke.
36:16
It was maybe the best finish in the tournament.
36:19
But I think if, if these teams had gotten higher seeds, they wouldn't have been forced to play Duke back to, back in the, in the regional semifinals and regional finals.
36:34
I think, I think that the league itself probably doesn't get the recognition it deserves.
36:42
Now last year I thought the league was pretty average, but this year I think that, yeah, and I think the league has got to do something to reassure us they can put four or five teams in the tournament
36:57
every year.
36:59
But I do think this, I think this year, Connecticut, St.
37:04
John's going over are all potential top 15 teams and they've all spent the money to make sure that they are.
37:11
But eventually, what scares me about the Big east guys and Catholic colleges, I don't know where the money's coming.
37:19
They're reaching into the treasury now to compete for the best players.
37:27
I don't know when that model becomes.
37:29
Unsustainable and so many universities and colleges at this current time are just in trouble in general and trying to spend this kind of money.
37:39
Yeah, it's, I mean it's scary when you look at a team like Ryder and you say, or you look at a team like UCLA and say, well, I mean they're all, they're producing athletic programs that are in the
37:53
red and some schools like Ryder can't afford to be in the red because it now affects the chances of the school staying open.
38:01
It's gotten crazy that way, guys.
38:04
Do you think you'll see more schools kind of make that, you know, Division one to Division three jump as some have been doing?
38:09
Oh, that's a really good question.
38:12
I do believe that eventually you are going to see that.
38:15
I would like to see.
38:18
I think eventually what you might see is the four major conferences kind of bailing out the NCAA altogether and forming their own self governance so they can have their own four league tournament.
38:35
And you're going to get, and you're going to wind up with Division 1 and Division 1 AA unless the schools like the Big east are willing to put up the money to be able to be competitive.
38:50
Once again we're joined by legendary author and sports writer, specifically college basketball and college football, Dick Hoops Weiss.
38:58
Dick, we wanted to ask you.
39:00
Both Chris and I, you know, talk about this often as fans of college basketball and coaches.
39:06
So you have guys like Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, they kind of, you know, even they've been around the game forever, they kind of, I almost say bail out, but they've had enough.
39:15
But yet.
39:16
But I think they read the tea leave.
39:17
Yeah.
39:18
Don't you?
39:18
Oh, absolutely.
39:19
Jay Wright got to a Final Four team that didn't have a draft pick.
39:23
Yeah.
39:23
And then he just got out.
39:25
Absolutely.
39:26
Tony Bennett got out before he was 60.
39:28
Yeah.
39:28
I mean people see it and they don't want to deal with it.
39:32
Look at Dusty May at Michigan this year.
39:35
I mean he wins the national championship.
39:38
He did it with 5 for 5 transfers but he probably didn't want to go through the same thing over and over again.
39:44
So he took the Dallas Mavericks job.
39:47
So what keeps guys like Tom Izzo and Rick Pitino though still going?
39:51
I mean with.
39:52
They've seen, you know, this such a change.
39:55
I think that Rick has gotten huge measure of assistance from Michael Poly who is locked into making sure St.
40:06
John's competes.
40:07
And Tom has just done it for so long, although I don't know how much longer he will do it.
40:13
I don't think you're going to have anybody who lasts to 78, 79 like Jim Bay, I'm really anymore.
40:20
I just think.
40:21
And those are the, those are the two biggest names in the sport that you just brought up in terms of coaching successfully in their 70s.
40:33
But you know, guys like Roy Williams, I mean they know when enough's enough.
40:38
Even Mike, after a certain time, realize it's time.
40:44
Yeah.
40:44
And I think you're going to see more and more the game is changing.
40:48
I think it's a younger coaches game.
40:51
I think you need coaches who really understand the nil.
40:55
They understand the portal.
40:57
I mean it's hard finding players that fit your system.
41:02
I mean you need people to.
41:05
You almost have to have two whiteboards.
41:07
You need a whiteboard for high school seniors and you need a whiteboard for transfers that you think could help you.
41:14
And it looks like more and more coaches like Rick Pitino are not even bothering to recruit the high school player.
41:22
They will recruit the transfer because they feel that experience and age are necessary to win big in this league.
41:33
And I think it's happening just about everywhere.
41:35
I mean team and teams are locked into replacing multiple players on a yearly basis, even at the highest level because.
41:48
Because players look at the money first and if they think they can make more money, they all.
41:56
Everybody's got an AOE discussed and if they feel they can make more money, they're going to look because there's no penalty for leaving anymore.
42:06
I mean, I love it.
42:08
They're putting in a five year rule which might help.
42:11
But all that means right now if you don't get hurt is you get to play five years.
42:16
Yeah.
42:18
Dick, I think that the NCAA is still the greatest sporting event in America.
42:21
But I don't know if you still agree, but if you know I've been.
42:25
To 55 Final Four,.
42:28
You be the guy to ask.
42:30
Well, on that for me, it's something I grew up with.
42:34
Right.
42:35
I mean I've been watching it for a long while and I love the event.
42:41
It's three weeks that you can't, that you can't replicate because everything is a one and done.
42:48
It's not like the NBA where you know you can lose and still win championships.
42:53
The best teams could lose on any given night.
42:56
And there's always going to be a moment of reckoning for everybody in college basketball.
43:03
You either pass or fail your biggest test.
43:07
I mean it's hard.
43:09
I mean it's hard game.
43:10
And now instead of just having to win six games, a lot of teams are going to have to win seven yeah, that makes it almost impossible.
43:20
I mean, especially in a one and done deal, guys.
43:24
Yeah, we'll get back to the nostalgia in a few minutes.
43:27
But if you can make one change to college basketball and it could be something we've already talked about, what would it be?
43:34
I would make everyone who transfers it out of here second transfer money.
43:42
I would make everyone who transfers it out of here because I think it would make people think twice about leaving the program.
43:50
So even the, even the first time you transfer, you'd have to sit out.
43:54
Yeah, you do that.
43:55
All of a sudden people are starting to wonder.
43:58
I mean, look, John, California, your first, your first transfer is free and then you have to sit out after that.
44:06
I can live with that.
44:07
But I, I, I think people need to learn how to work for success, guys.
44:15
I think that too.
44:17
All too often.
44:18
I didn't get enough shots, I didn't get enough time.
44:22
Coach didn't play me.
44:23
I didn't like the way he used me in this.
44:25
And the first thing they do, as opposed to work through it now, is head to the door.
44:30
Yeah, that's the easiest thing to do is just bail out.
44:35
I totally agree, guys.
44:38
So from a personal standpoint, Dick, I wanted to ask you, you wrote or co wrote my all time.
44:45
I read everything college basketball about coaches.
44:50
Yes, my wife would agree.
44:52
And also, yes, I'm very, I am very.
44:57
No, I know what you mean.
44:58
But very single minded in my interest of reading.
45:00
But honestly, full court pressure, which he wrote along with Rick Pitino, that is, let me tell you, that is my all time favorite.
45:10
That last shot cost me about $500,000, but it was still, I would never trade that.
45:19
It was a chance to get behind the big boob curtain.
45:22
I mean, I was at every practice, every game.
45:25
I mean that team was a special team.
45:28
I mean they, they basically got the last part of the bench.
45:34
Everyone else left after Eddie Sutton got put on probation.
45:37
Absolutely.
45:37
And they had Jamal Ashburn.
45:39
And when he came, no one knew he would be a consummate pro.
45:45
I mean he, I mean, he lost the weight.
45:49
Rick.
45:50
Really, I thought that when I was down there, they had the best staff you could possibly have.
45:57
They had Billy Donovan, who was.
46:00
And Herb Sendak, who were both incredibly hard workers, and Rick, who probably was as good a player development as anybody I've ever been around.
46:10
I mean, in the time they spent in the gym.
46:12
Now, what wasn't as crazy as it was when Rick coached Providence and they were practicing three times a day in 1987, when they got to A final four.
46:24
But I'm telling you, the work he did with the kids and the way that he taught the three point shot was remarkable.
46:32
That's why I was like a little confused last year.
46:36
I don't think that St.
46:37
John's had great three point shooters last year relative to what we normally see out of Rick Patino teams.
46:44
But you know, you get Rick players.
46:46
He'll win anyway.
46:48
He has to.
46:49
Yeah, I mean, see, it'll win with defense.
46:53
It would, I mean, he'll win.
46:55
I mean he'll, he'll, he'll win with half court sets.
46:58
Sure.
46:59
The guy is one of the great coaches of my lifetime.
47:02
I mean he's a guy who, who brought full court press back to the Knicks, you know, in the, in the 80s and people were, they didn't know what the heck was going on.
47:10
Can't be that old.
47:11
Oh, come on.
47:12
I was in college then, Dick.
47:13
Come on now.
47:14
But I'll tell you, that full court pressure book, to me, I think.
47:21
I'm.
47:21
Kind of gushing about it, but it really is, it's in my collection.
47:24
That is my all time favorite book.
47:28
It's the truth.
47:28
And you'll never see another book written like that because a.
47:33
The games changed so much.
47:34
But it was literally like for me, as someone who was breaking into coaching at the time, it was like a textbook and it was just.
47:42
I'm not surprised.
47:43
Yeah, just tremendous stuff.
47:44
Dick, I got a question about nowadays.
47:46
Is there a team or a conference that you're excited to see or want to keep an eye on this season?
47:52
I think I'll be intrigued by.
47:57
The.
47:58
SEC only because I'm always intrigued by that.
48:01
I mean that commentary.
48:03
The other conference I'm intrigued by is the acc, because I think there are.
48:08
I think Miami has a chance to do unbelievable things this year with their roster.
48:16
I think that they have a chance.
48:18
I don't know.
48:18
They can beat Duke, but I think they have a chance to steal it.
48:21
And the sec, they have all these swamp monsters down there playing at schools like Florida and Arkansas.
48:31
I think the games will be interesting.
48:33
So that's, that's me.
48:37
I'm always interested in the Big east because I grew up with it.
48:40
I mean, I.
48:42
The only Big east tournament I missed was the year after Covid.
48:47
I wanted to go to the Final Four, but you needed to get a double vaccination.
48:53
I didn't want to take a chance to go to New York, so I passed on that.
49:00
Ironically, that was the year the, that Baylor won the championship and the games were in Indianapolis.
49:09
All the games were there.
49:10
I went there.
49:11
John Feinstein and I drove from Washington D.C.
49:16
to Indianapolis to watch that tournament.
49:19
That was great.
49:20
Ten hours.
49:21
It was great stuff.
49:23
Still one of the great losses in our profession when he passed away.
49:27
Yes.
49:28
I saw seven games in 48 hours in four different arenas in Indianapolis.
49:32
It was amazing.
49:34
We got to see a game in some, some random field house watching, you know, Winthrop and Villanova.
49:40
And they were trying to play everywhere.
49:42
Exactly.
49:43
They tried.
49:44
Dick.
49:45
Speaking of Final Fours, if you could relive one Final Four as a reporter, go back and kind of redo it, which one would it be and why?
49:53
Probably Villanova.
49:54
85 only because no one thought they could be Georgetown.
50:00
And you know, they were a team, they were an ace seed.
50:04
They had to play the first game on the road against a nine seed Dayton.
50:09
And they wound up beating like three number one seeds in order to win the championship that year.
50:16
I mean, it showed how big the Big east was.
50:20
I mean, you had three Big east teams in Lexington that year with St.
50:24
John's with Georgetown, Villanova.
50:27
And the irony is, if Villanova played St.
50:30
John's instead of Georgetown, St.
50:32
John's would be the national champion.
50:35
Villanova could not beat Chris Muller.
50:37
Yeah, they had no answer for him.
50:40
They had no answer for him.
50:42
But Rowley was such a good coach with playing without the shot clock and the three that he understood how to play John Thompson.
50:53
They had two close games.
50:54
One was a seven point game, one almost an overtime game in loss in the regular season.
51:00
So all the people that thought that this was going to be a walk in the park for Georgetown probably didn't see the regular season competition because it was right there.
51:14
Because all their kids had played the Georgetown kids up at five stars in summers before that.
51:21
It was great.
51:23
We actually spent some time with.
51:25
With Ed Pinckney at Villanova camp, actually.
51:29
Yeah.
51:29
And he, he said the exact same thing.
51:31
There was no way.
51:32
Because everyone was saying, and this was many years after, like, how were you not intimidated?
51:36
And they said, hey, you know, these are guys we played against all the time.
51:40
I still remember at the end of the game, the game, the game was playing on April 1st.
51:45
I still remember Eddie Pinckney and Dwayne McLean jumping up on the press conference screaming April Fools after the game, I believe.
51:53
Wow, that's pure joy.
51:57
The other question I had for you in your time, I'm a big Mount Rushmore guy.
52:03
I like to ask people.
52:04
So you're Mount Rushmore of college basketball coaches.
52:08
I know that it's very difficult, I'm sure.
52:11
But for you, for you personally, who would you name?
52:16
Boy, that is a hard question, because you got to put wooden on there.
52:21
Probably K on there, I think Dean Smith, I would put on there.
52:27
And, you know, I'm going to take a flyer on this and say that I can make a case for dinner.
52:35
Yeah, yeah.
52:36
The only one I would.
52:38
I would suggest from my end, I mean, I would.
52:41
I certainly wouldn't argue with it, is Bob Knight.
52:45
I.
52:45
I can see that he.
52:47
I thought he was great when he had total control of the game.
52:52
I didn't like the way his career ended.
52:56
Yeah.
52:56
I didn't like the fact that after 92, they never get back to a Final Four.
53:02
Yeah, it's true.
53:03
Until he left, I was in Philly when I went 32, and.
53:09
And he coached beautiful basketball, and he.
53:13
I mean, he won in Philly in 81 and then beat Syracuse in 87.
53:20
The guy really knew how to coach.
53:23
He was.
53:24
He could be difficult to deal with.
53:26
I can imagine he wasn't the easiest guy in the world to deal with, especially if you're a member of the media.
53:33
But you had to appreciate the hard work he put in.
53:38
I mean, he developed a huge cult following out in Bloomington.
53:42
I mean, people in Indiana.
53:45
I mean, I was there the week after he got fired, and it got crazy, and the media got wrapped up and we became the enemy of the people, too.
53:57
So their students were totally incensed over the whole thing.
54:02
Yeah.
54:02
They literally camped out and we're going to cause a riot there.
54:06
Right.
54:07
I was there for an entire week after it happened.
54:11
I was at Notre Dame for the Nebraska game on Saturday.
54:18
And then this story breaks.
54:20
The next thing you know, I'm in Bloomington on Friday.
54:26
Next day, I get up, drove to do the Notre Dame game and drove right back.
54:32
And I was there through the following Friday.
54:34
It was just every day.
54:36
It was crazy.
54:37
Yeah.
54:37
Talking with Dick Weiss, who's been around much college basketball, do you have either a coach that you think, you know, you had a conversation with or a story that people maybe haven't heard much before that you'd be able
54:50
to share?
54:50
I mean, you've talked to a lot of probably really funny, interesting coaches.
54:54
Is there a.
54:55
A person out there or a story that, you know, you could share with us?
54:59
Boy, that's.
55:01
That's a good point.
55:01
I have to think about that, guys.
55:05
I still remember Dean Smith, who was a great coach but had a bad smoking habit.
55:14
I still remember him having a cigarette before the championship game.
55:18
Against George South.
55:20
That was crazy.
55:22
I mean, but, you know, he grew up on Tobacco Road, so I guess it works that way.
55:29
Yeah, absolutely.
55:30
I also remember St.
55:32
Joe's DePaul only because Jimmy Lyneman was coaching St.
55:36
Joe's he was a good friend of mine.
55:38
DePaul was the number one team in the country, the favorite to win it.
55:42
Only Mark Aguilar.
55:43
They had Terry Cummings, sure.
55:45
1981, that was Ray Meyer Brown game.
55:50
And St.
55:51
Joe's goes for to score the entire game.
55:56
Keeps the game under, under 50.
56:01
Comes up with a.
56:03
A rebound off a missed shot with three seconds left.
56:07
Two passes later, they're being DePaul.
56:11
And the next thing you know, Jimmy Lyman's youngest daughter, Dee, is running out of the, out of the stands, throwing herself into.
56:22
Jumping onto her father's, into her father's arms.
56:26
And that scene was probably replayed for like the next 10 years.
56:32
I also remember after the game, Mark McGuire taking the ball and throwing it into the river right off.
56:39
Wow.
56:41
It's crazy.
56:42
Well, that's the beauty of college basketball and just athletics in general.
56:47
In a one big game deal, anything can happen.
56:50
That's true.
56:51
Most definitely.
56:52
Well, Dick, we can't thank you enough.
56:53
I mean, just pure gold.
56:54
You're a legend and you know, you gave us so much great stories, insight, and we can't thank you enough for joining us tonight.
57:01
Hey, listen, it's really nice talking to both of you.
57:04
Okay?
57:04
Best of luck with your show.
57:06
Thank you very much.
57:06
Thank you again, Dick.
57:07
And we wish you all the best, Mike.
57:10
That's classic, right?
57:11
That's as good as it gets.
57:12
And what a story to end on, you know, I mean, really.
57:14
And it, you know, in some ways it's a shame that the game has changed, but those, those stories will never.
57:19
Still following it.
57:20
He sure is.
57:20
Thanks again to Mike Treza, Brian Heyman, and of course, Dick Hoops Weiss.
57:25
We'll see in a couple of weeks.
57:26
Have a good night.
57:29
The views expressed in the previous program did not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb.