Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / The Key to Raising Good Humans AND Being One with Developmental Psychologist, Dr. Aliza Pressman

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The Key to Raising Good Humans AND Being One with Developmental Psychologist, Dr. Aliza Pressman · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: This is pretty smart. Doctor Eliza Pressman is a developmental psychologist,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: child behaviorist, and parent educator. She's also a mom of
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to herself, and she shares valuable knowledge, tools, and advice
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: to help others on their journey of being a parent,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: especially on her podcast, Raising Good Humans. It's one of
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: my favorite podcasts. She's such a great interviewer. Doctor Pressman
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: is Hollywood's go to resource for parenting. Jennifer Garner, Juliana Margalize,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore, Jesse Williams, Cleo Wade, and many more are
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: all fans and students of her philosophies. For a long time,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I've been fascinated by parenting because so much much of
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: it is about communication, and you all know I'm obsessed
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: with being a better communicator. I also have a lot
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: of apprehension about being a good parent. It seems so
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: difficult and there's no guidebook. So if you're a parent already,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: this is a great episode. But if you're like me
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and you're not a parent yet or don't ever want
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: to be one, this episode will still be really interesting.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: It's basically a masterclass in communication, self confidence, and self compassion. So, Alisa,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: before we get into all of the parenting and communication stuff,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I want to know more about you. Where are you from,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: where'd you grow up? What were your parents like?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Oh? Well, so I was born in Ohio, and then
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I was in Washington and then I moved to New
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: York City in high school. And my parents were divorced
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: when I was a year and a half. And so
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: when my dad actually lived in Boston and I was
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: once they got divorced, and then I moved to New
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: York and lived with him in high school because I
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: wanted to live with my dad. At some point, I'm
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: still apologizing to my mom about that. I mean, that
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: was just such a cruel high school student thing to do.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I think I heard her, Yeah, I mean.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I certainly think now that I have a high schooler
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: if she turned to me and was like, I just
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: want to go live with dad, I mean, actually I'm divorced,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: so she could turn to me and say that, but
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: he's a mile away, so it would not be the
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: same thing. In this case, I went to a different
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: state and she let me. So I feel guilty, But
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: was he really Have you ever talked to her about it? Yeah,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I at least once a year say something like I'm
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: so sorry. I was a terrible teenager.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Why do you think she let you?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I think she really believed that, you know, I was
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: old enough and it was a reasonable request to want
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: to live with your father at some point, and so
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: she was like, okay, but I don't know she thought
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I would do it.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I think that's pretty big of her.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would never be that cool ever. Ever.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really hard thing to do. Yeah, she relinquished,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: she did.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: She's good at that.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: What was the time spent with your dad?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Like, So, I have a sneaking suspicion my interest in
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: developmental psychology and parenting and attachment and all of the
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: ways that we come to be who we are are
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: likely related to my own childhood and kind of being
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: curious about how it all panned out. But my father
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: is amazing and interesting and crazy and eccentric and definitely
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: was super permissive, so I could. I had no rules,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: but I remember, like I remember very distinctly not having
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: a curfew, for example, But I never went out. I
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: was just like a good fit for a permissive parent
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: because I never did anything. He was so lucky. And
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: then one day I went out and didn't come home
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: till four o'clock in the morning, and he and it
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: was before cell phones, because I'm a hundred and he
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: was like so beside himself and so angry. And I said, well,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: you didn't tell me I had to be home at
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: a certain time. And he's like, because who goes out
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: till four o'clock in the morning, Like it should be
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: a given. And I said, well, here's a parenting tip,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: give me a boundary, like and I will, I will
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: follow accordingly, but.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: You know, my god, here's that tip.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I'm not meant to be in charge here.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: But if I'm going to be in charge, the risk
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: is I'm going to come home at four in the morning.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was like not even doing anything. It's
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: so sad, it's barely I was just at a friend's house, yeah,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: and it was like a group of kids and we
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: were totally sober, hanging out and watching movies. But for him,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: and it's New York City too, so it's terrifying, I'm
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: sure for a parent. But anyway, that was like a
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: moment where I thought, you know, what are parents doing?
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: So you think, if I'm hearing you write, you're sort
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: of like loose or porous boundaries informed you're wanting to
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: study this.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: I think that was a certainly a part of it
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: was what is all that about? Like I remember the
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: first time somebody explained boundaries to me, I was like,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: because I said, I don't think I understand what boundaries are.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I was in my early twenties. Yeah, and I didn't
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: even know what that meant because it just that wasn't
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: the kind of family that I grew up and now
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: there I also got the closest relationship with both of
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: my parents because we definitely had the best friends thing
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: going more. But it's scary to have no boundaries. It's
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: scary to be in charge of yourself. I mean I
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: still feel that way, and I am a grown woman
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: with children, Like, I'm in charge of children and you
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: have two kids? Yeah, how old are they? One is
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: about to turn twelve and the others fourteen?
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And did you deliberately parent them differently than your parents
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: or did you take a lot of what your parents
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: gave you.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure I took some of what my parents
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: gave me unconsciously, and I definitely took some of the
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: stuff that I thought was really special about my experience
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: being parented. And then I definitely was like rejecting a
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: chunk that felt like God, that was a harder way
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: to grow up. Like I didn't feel like I had
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: the tools necessarily that I would want for my kids.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: That's so hard.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I love, like I often think, because parenting
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: is never perfect and you're always going to it's like
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: the thing in life you should get to see, Like,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't be a perfect parent. It would be a
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: terrible message to your kids because then they have to
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: be perfect kids. And I also feel like, I don't know,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't I wouldn't want a different life, Like I
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: love the way the life that I have, And in
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: a large part it had to do with my experience
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: as a child and all of those things. So I
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: use it to inform my choices and it probably got
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: me here. And you know, you don't find a lot
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: of psychologists that were just like I just had a
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: normal experience.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I think we're all we all kind of go
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: into not all of us, but many of us go
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: into fields to heal ourselves in some sort of sure.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: But I heard Gwyneth Paltrow say one time something I loved.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: It was like a whole different perspective than I had
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: heard that any decision you make parenting, if you feel
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: like it wasn't a good decision, whatever that means, then
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: it is a cumbent upon your child to heal that.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: And we all have things to heal, so you can't
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: really make a good or a bad decision. It is
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: like your kid's life journey.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Yes that's true, but you can be conscious that like
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: your choices once you have kids have an impact on
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: other people, and your choices have an impact on other
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: people forever all the time. We're never alone, We're always
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: in this world. We're just we have interdependence. There's just
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: so much of it when there's a child or children involved.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: And so it's this really cool thing happens to your
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: brain the first three years of life. Seventy five percent,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: give or take. So if there's a neuroscientist listening, they
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: might adjust my numbers, but let's just say about seventy
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: five percent in those first few years, and certainly in
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: the first five years is developed. And then there's another
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: huge jump in development in adolescence. And the third biggest
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: growth in your brain is at the onset of parenting.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: And it's not biological because they see this in adopted
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: First of all, they see it in fathers who do
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: not carry children, and they also see it in parents
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: who adopt. It's the act of caregiving that opens your
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: brain up so that you are available to put your
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: resources into changing for the better. You get people stop
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: smoking who could never stop smoking. You know, think about
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: those moments that you're like, I want I did it
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: for my kid. People stop drinking when they're pregnant, Like.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Glenn and Doyle. It's her famous story she
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: finally got sober and stopped her eating disorder.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: It's the time in your brain development that you are motivated.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And people say mom, brain all the time, but they're
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: using it wrong because you can't find your keys, not
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: because you've lost your brain, because your resources are put
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: in more important things, so you're like, I don't have
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: time for this little stuff. So it's really kind of
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: a beautiful, fascinating isn't it cool? About just how we grow,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: and the fact that it's the act of caregiving and
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: loving that does it. So it's not just that you
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: b a child, that this happens to anybody who's whose job,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: who's like put in charge of another human being.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: When people give me nuggets like this, I'm like, I
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: learned the coolest stuff on this podcast. Thank you for
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: sharing that. Okay, So your approach is different from some
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: people's out there. You call it developmental psychology and not
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: just you call it that, but yeah, I call it that.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: It is a field. So in Layman's terms, for me
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: to understand, what is developmental psychology and what is your
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: approach like to parenting?
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: So I would say most of what I do is
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: not original thought. I really pull from researchers, scientists, psychologists
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: in the world from the last however many decades. And
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: so I just want to say that because I feel
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: like much of this field is not original thought. It's
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: just how you translate it, you synthesize it and make
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: it understandable. I hope, or that's my intention, because there's
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: so much out there what people think of when they
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: think of psychology, they're thinking of clinical psychology, which is
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: basically it's just people say psychology as a general thing,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: and this is so minutia, but it's a different pair
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: of glasses. The glasses the lens for a clinician, for
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: a clinical psychologist is what is pathological here? What's wrong?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: How can I figure out what's going wrong? And developmental
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: psychology and I'm really simplifying it, but developmental psychology is
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: just simply looking at the growth, the emotional and social
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: and intellectual growth of a human being from birth through
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: the end. And my focus happens to be until adulthood.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: So I just the onset of parenting to adulthood, even
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: though my interactions are with parents, so I'm actually with
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: adults all the time thinking about kids, and so that
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: makes my lens a little bit more positive and not toxic. Positive,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Just what can we think about that is in our
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: control in this environment, in this world to support this
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: human being and because the stuff that's not in our
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: control is interesting and it's good to have as a
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: point of reference, you know, like how are you coming,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: what's your DNA? How are you coming into this world?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: And what's your temperament? But the stuff that is not
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: in our control is obviously not in our control, there's
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: nothing to do about it. So the parenting world that
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I try to focus on is what are the things
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: that we can do that not what can our kids do,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: but what can we do to best support their growth
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: and development? Instead of the lens of how do I
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: make my kid better or like what can I teach them,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: it's really about what can I teach myself and in
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: doing so, this will be healthier for our next generation.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: It's such a great approach because I think about I
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: guess to my own lens through therapy, and I asked
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: my therapist one time, when I do have children in
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: the future, hopefully, how can I make it so that
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: they're okay with pain, that our house is okay with
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the messiness and the pain. And she said, well, you
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: just have to be okay with pain. And I was like,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: all of it's on me, but it's empowering that all
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: of it's on you.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: That's the thing is like when I say that, I
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: don't mean like you better be good because your kids
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: are watching. I mean how cool that your kids are watching,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: because that means you actually have an influence and you
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: can say, hey, pain is part of the day, and
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not scared of it, and then your kids thrive
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: from that information. Imagine knowing as you enter adulthood that like,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: if you're having pain, that that's not like an alarm
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: bell does not need to go off. You know. That
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: comes from growing up finding out that the whole range
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: of feelings that we have is all the whole range
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: of it. It's just what it is, instead of like
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I have to fix this. Yeah.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: So usually when I prep an outline for an interview,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I like put the questions in order, I reorder them,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I make sure the flow is really good. I had
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: so many random questions for you that there is not
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: going to be a flow, a flow necessary. Thank you.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: So my first question is on the topic of resilience. Okay,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I heard Adam Grant say one time, prepare your child
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: for the path, not the path for your child. Great,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: it's great. It's a great line.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: He's awesome.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I'm thirty, so I am in the heart of the millennials.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: You really are, I am, and we are known as
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: that everybody gets a trophy generation. I often hear people
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: that are my parents' age say that we lack resilience.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering what you don't really mean about millennials, they
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: really are.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I think they get a bad rap. I know we're
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: actually very hard workers. Yeah, statistically we spend more time
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: at work and make less money than any generation. But
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: aside from that, what is your take on First of all,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: will dive deeper into resilience, but millennial resilience, well.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: There, it is true that there was a time when,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: you know, making sure everything was even and everybody got
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: the trophy felt good. Not because of the children, but
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: because of the adults who didn't want to feel the
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: feelings of how awful you feel when your kid is upset.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of not the millennial's fault at all.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: It's about the feelings the adults didn't want to have
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: at the end of the soccer game, and so that
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: message did happen. I mean, obviously this is a stereotype,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: but there is a generation that felt like the message
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: was always like you're the best, you could do anything,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: you're a queen. Well, what happens when you go out
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: into the world and you have to like mop the
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: floor or file the files, and you thought you were
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: going to start at one hundred, It's like you didn't
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: get the path paved for you. I'm sorry you did
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: get the path paved for you instead of learning this
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: path or whatever. I just ruined Adam Grant's quote. It's prepared, right, yeah, yeah,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: prepared for the path.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: And that was a disservice, certainly, because if you're pumped
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: up by external things like your parents telling you that
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: you are the most important thing in the universe. Not
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: of course you're the most important to them. But you
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: can't tell kids that they can do anything, be anything,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: have anything, because it's confusing, it's not true, Like.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Can you tell them that they can have and be
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: all that with hard work? Or how how do you
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: cultivate confidence? I have resilience.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Well, so confidence comes from competence, not from being told
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: you're awesome, And that I think is one of the
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: biggest problems that this generation was burdened with. Like this
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: is not on the millennials. This is on the generation
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: that had millennials who was who said I want my
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: kids to be so confident. I'm going to tell them
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: their shit doesn't stake all day and then they're going
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: to feel good. But that doesn't feel good because as
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: you get older, you're like, I don't know how to
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: do this, and why am I? You know, like, why
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: don't I have these tools? And why don't I have
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: these skills? And will anybody know that I am? You know?
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Is there something wrong with me? Am I the only
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: one who you know? You get? You question yourself because
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: nobody said to you, hey, listen. Of course you don't
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: know how to do this. Of course that painting isn't Picasso.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: You have to practice and work and try, and even
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: then it's not going to happen to everybody. But there's
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: no way that you'll have a chance if you don't
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: really put your mind to it and focus. But there's
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: this false idea that even if you do one hundred
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: percent of you are going to get to be Picasso.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Is ridiculous. But if you're told by your parents, listen,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I love you for exactly who you are, this painting
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: has nothing to do with why I love you. Who
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: you are is not the splendor of your accomplishments. There
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: was a generation of kids who basically and it's still
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: happening now. It's not like everybody realized this was a
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: mistake and stop doing it. There's still kids often feel
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: that the love from their parents and others comes from
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: the splendor of their accomplishments, not from who they are,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: and that is from this well meaning praise of how
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: you know, I want to instill confidence by telling you
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: you're amazing.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So it was almost a pseudo confidence, yes, exactly. And
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: if confidence comes from competence, like say even a silly
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: task like laundry exactly, like you're a kid, you don't
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: know how to do laundry, you.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Know how, somebody's going to help you learn how to
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: do laundry.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And then when you do it by yourself and you're like,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I know how to do this, you build confidence.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: That's right, and then you don't go to college let's say,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: for example, and realize I don't know how to do laundry?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: How do I do laundry? And then you're like, find
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: a roommate. Maybe I'm giving you my story like who
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: knew how to do laundry and was like, oh my god,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: what have you been doing this whole time? Because you
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: feel like that kid feels competent and they can take
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: on the world. So it's not those silly little things.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Those silly little things are exactly what you want to cultivate.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: That is so interesting. So is there a way to
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: build resilience.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: So some parts of resilience are just environment that you
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: can't control the community you grow up in, the socioeconomic
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: group that you grow up in. Like that can be
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: easier or harder depending you have nothing to do with that.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: There are certain things that aren't necessarily going to be
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: on you. But the stuff that we can build and
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: help kids with in ourselves is what you said earlier,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: being able to sit with the more challenging feelings in
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: life and knowing that you will they will come and go,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: just like every other feeling. Happy feelings come and go,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Hard feelings come and go, and they are to normalize
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: them so that you don't wonder why you're so sad
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: that and you think it's going to be forever. So
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: that's one thing. Is just like making feelings all acceptable.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I always say all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: And that is a very child like friendly way of
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: saying something that is true for adults too. When you
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: start to think I'm not feeling the right feelings, you
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: start to feel shame, and shame is this thing that
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: really breaks down resilience. So another thing for resilience, it
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: just requires one, but one loving, supportive caregiver, and that
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: is so powerful. And when you're an adult, if you
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: want to build a resilience, you need to have one
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: person who keeps you psychologically safe, like they are your person.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be a romantic partner, a friend,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: someone with whom you know you are psychologically safe.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I think so many adults find that safety and therapist
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: right nowadays, which is kind of lovely.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: It's so lovely and you can certainly, I mean, and
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: it's so wonderful that therapy is something that people feel
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: comfortable with and it's not like a thing to whisper.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Finding relationships where you can know that who you are
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: again does not rest on the splendor of your accomplishments.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It is not. Their love is not conditional in that way.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Obviously you have to be nice to them and treat
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: them well. But you're just talking about a real friend,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: a real friend, a true blue friend. Yes, you don't
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: have to give them a fake answer. You don't have
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: to pretend that you're not thinking about something that you're
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: totally obsessing over. You don't have to be someone you're not,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: and it's hard to do that. Like if you really
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: break it down. You might have certain friends for parts
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: of your personality. It's hard to find people that love
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: the whole you, even though I think if you tried
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: showing the whole you, they probably would. It's just you
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: gotta believe that. So you need the confidence to know
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: that who you are is not somebody to hide.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: There's also a want there because sometimes I have like
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: a spidey sense, like I could show up as my
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: full self, but there's something about that person I don't
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: need to.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's great to know, because we don't need
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: to show our whole selves to everybody. That's not necessary.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: It's the people that you know where you're psychologically safe,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: or that you have a spidy sense like yeah, I
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: can be whatever with this person. And that spidey sense
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: is part of resilience too. There's also in we know
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: that motivation and purpose is linked with resilience.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, can you say more about that?
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: So when you have purpose and when you are motivated
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: to move toward a purpose, if you think about that,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: it means for sure you know there's a future for you,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: which is very positive. Like that's an optimistic view. You're saying,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: not half glass half full. I don't mean that. I
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: mean there's potential. When you have purpose, you know there's potential,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: or you wouldn't bother with it. And so if you
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: know that there's more than a fifty percent chance that
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: you'll meet that goal, you can motivate to meet that.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: You know, whatever your purpose is, that calling helping others
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: is very linked with resilience because you step outside of
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: yourself and it gives you perspective. But more importantly, it
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: gives you connection. And connection is everything. It's everything.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: So this is a question that I realize is going
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to sound really basic. When I meet a child, a toddler,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: like if they're like eight or nine, I know what
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to say totally. When I meet a toddler, I go blank,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Like I don't want to ask them what their favorite
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: color is, but that seems like boring to them.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, if you ask anybody anything about themselves,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: they'll probably be thrilled to answer anything. Yeah, okay, So.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: If you meet a baby, you just kind of hold
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: the baby. You meet a toddler, what do you say?
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: So when you meet a todd the first thing is
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: like check out their temperament, because like if they're clearly
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: like clinging to their adults. Just get a eye level
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: and just say you're you know, like use a little
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: bit of a happier, higher pitched although you have a
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: very happy way of being, so it would come across well.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: But if for somebody that's like got a flatter affect,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: bump it up a notch, smile bigger, and get it
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: eye level and neil, you know, like lean down or
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: not lean down. Lean down is kind of intimidating. You
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: really want to get down on your knees or squatting
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: and so that they're the same height and you just
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: say like, hi, nice to eat you, I'm Alisa, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: then usually asking any question if they're up for it,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: including what's your favorite color? Is totally fine, or ask
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: them about something they're holding or whatever. And then you
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: kind of want to be a cat, like you're there
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: but you're not bugging them, And then you can sit.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: If you're trying to engage a toddler, I would like
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: sit down on the ground and start playing with something
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: and they probably will come check it out. But if
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: you're like on top of them like a dog, then
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: they you know, it doesn't feel as good for them,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: so you kind of.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: They don't like someone who tries too hard.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: You don't want to try too hard. You got to
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: play it cool, which is not my nature. If I
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: had a tail, it would be like a wagging tail
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: all the time and give everything away. But if you
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: can be a little bit like I'm at your eye level,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I'm available, but I'm not going to force anything, they
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: usually come to you.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: That is such good advice. Thank you. What is your
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: take on what we say to little boys versus little girls,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: because I think in the last five years or so,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of rhetoric about not saying like, wow,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: you're so pretty to a little girl, because we don't
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: say that. We don't say wow, you're so handsome to
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: a little boy. We say like you're so tall, you're
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: so strong. Yeah, even if they're not just we started
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: like boosting that. Yeah. But I think honestly it comes
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: from a place of not knowing what to say. Yeah.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: It's so like, as a rule, if we could all
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: agree not to comment on looks and just comment on
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: some internal thing that your child or that child is
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: working toward or working on.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: But if you just meet a kid you don't know, so.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Then you might just say I like your shirt. That
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: has nothing to do with them. They're just wearing it,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: so it's fine. But once you get into your handsome,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: you're smart, you're gorgeous, you're whatever, there's a judgment there
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: about who they are, whether it's good or bad. It's
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: still like setting that up and it's something that's not
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: in their control. So the other thing with a compliment
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: is like compliment something in their control. They have a
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: shirt that is something they could take off if it's ugly,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: so it feels like that's safe.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: My daughter said to me, my little one is real introvert.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: If I praise how she looks, she actually says to me,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: I am uncomfortable when you do that, because I don't
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: want to walk through the world thinking you are looking
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: at me like that's not fun for me. And I
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: was like, right, that's so awesome, so great that you
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: told me that. But also there are a lot of
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: introverts out there that and also people in general who
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: don't realize that the message really is I'm watching you.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Wow. So speaking of I'm watching you, my mom has
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: a phrase, I love lessons are caught, not taught. Oh,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I love that kids really observe you. Like she always
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: said to me, you listen to what I say a
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: little bit, but you really watch how I walk throughout
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the world. So in your experience, how much do children
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: take from what you say versus how you act and
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: how you are?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, I completely agree with her. They mostly take
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: the nonverbal and the watching how you're walking through the
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: earth as the fundamental values and lessons like if you
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: say never lie, but they catch you constantly lying, they're
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: not gonna value truth. Most of parenting stuff is also
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: again it's where it's it's working on yourself, like what
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: how how am I walking through this world? That what
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: lessons are being caught when I'm going about my day
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: in front of my children or even not in front
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: of them, because the energy is there and you're you know,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: we pick things up a lot, and so of course
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: modeling is important.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: When you do talk to your children. Is there a
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: time to raise your voice or you always supposed to
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: be calm?
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Well, let me say this, even if you are always
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: supposed to be calm, nobody is. So it's an unrealistic
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: goal because there are situations where a stern voice like
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I SA serious voice is totally relevant and important. Yelling
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: is never a thing like there's no reason to yell,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: except of course, people yell when you get when your
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: nervous system gets the message that you should have alarms
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: going off because you're under threat or under attack. You're
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: going to fight, fight, fight, freeze. Those are the things
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: that we do. So if something happens that sets off
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: your alarm, you might yell at your kid, that's because
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: you lost control and your nervous system lost control, and
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: then you need to like regain it, say the same
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: thing again without that voice, and recognize that you needed
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: to feel safe and you didn't, and so you yelled.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: That's all that happened. But it's not the end of
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: the world. You can repair. But I do think like
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: this idea that like all parenting has to be mellow
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: and calm is false advertising. You can't care and always
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: be in a state of like it's all good. There
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: are going to be moments when your nervous system is
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: like rah. So I want parents to and anybody to
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: kind of recognize, Okay, what is my body telling me
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: right now? I care a lot and that freaked me out,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: and now I just went into my stress brain and
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: That's why, like as you before you become a parent. Ideally,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: but any time in life, you want to get practice
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: getting from your state of fight flight or freeze to
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: back to a state of chill so that you don't
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: not know how to get back from losing it. You
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: want to really be able to say, like, what is
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: the passcode to my internal alarm so I can turn
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: it off before I do something I'll regret. And that's
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: life work, right, I mean yes, but again it's more
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: important when you're raising kids because you're like, oh boy,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: my nervous system has a huge impact on how their
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: nervous system works. It's coregulation, it's called and when that happens,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: you like put a little bit more or hopefully we
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: can put a little bit more consciousness into how we
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: respond social media.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: This is I think probably one of the most talked
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: about topics. There's so many different facets totally. I read
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: that Steve Jobs wouldn't let his kids use like iPhones iPads.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: You hear that a lot with the creators.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that always, like red Flash, it always makes me
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: feel like, what do they know that we don't know?
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: That said, avoiding technology not reality, It's not reality. And
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: also I'm not sure it's beneficial. Like so much of
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: our work and the future of work I think is
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: somewhat dependent on at least like having basic knowledge in
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: developmental psychology. In your experience as a parent, what's your philosophy,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: like what do you do with your kids Instagram?
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: And with my kids, my older child, I just went by, listen,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to not have you doing these things.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: I want to show you how to use them, and
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: over time, as you get more responsible, you'll have more freedom.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: But we won't start until it's actually like there's an
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: age for example, Instagram. It says you have to be
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: thirteen to use it. Now can you bypass that? Of course?
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: But I just said this is it's right here. It
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: says thirteen. So when you turn thirteen, it's yours for
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: the taking private of course, And I you know, gave
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: a contract. Here are some ground rules. If you break
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: this contract, then we take off Instagram. It's super easy
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: and we don't have to fight about it. And because
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I think if you're too controlling, I know tons of
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: kids who just what weren't allowed to have it at all?
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: And they have of course they have it. They just
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: have it on their friend's phone. They have a Finsta,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: yeah so, and they all have finstas and their regular
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: account that we can like, I'm I'm not following my
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: daughter's fince day account because she doesn't want it to
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: look like I'm following her fince day account. But I
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: have access to her fins day account. You know it exists,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: of course, and I look at it. I just but
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I just check in to make sure that she's not
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: a totally different person than I think she is. Not
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: to police her if she gave me reason, if there
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: were things that were red flags, then I would probably
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: have a different conversation. So I think you give the freedom.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: You assume that you're teaching and guiding to a point
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: where they have freedom, and then if it's the right
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: amount of freedom, they should be able to handle it.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: When it's not, you say, this wasn't working. Let's pull back,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: so it's not too late.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Ever, I also like what you just said, this isn't working,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: so let's pull back. Not like you broke the rules.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: You're bad.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, totally, because you're not. This is hard
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: to navigate. I mean, if you told me that I
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: can't use my Instagram for a week or look at it,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah what would have a tough time. I'd probably sneak it.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: But it's not they're bad or good. It's about what
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: they can handle and what they need help with. And
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: it's also built for us to want more of it.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: So how can we expect a developing brain to be like, oh,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I'm above this. Of course they're not so. And I
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: think having them understand what is happening with their mental
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: health and what is happening in their body when they
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: look at certain posts or follow certain things, so that
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: they can make healthy choices and recognize that it is
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: not for them. I don't know why everybody was like
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: floored that Facebook was secretly knowing because it wasn't good
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: for teenage girls.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Didn't we all know it was not good for teenage girls?
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: That was so weird to me. I was like, why
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: is there an uproar over something that we know to
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: be true intuitively? And also, it's a business that is
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: doing like we've seen this a million times over. The
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: onus is not it's not to shut down those businesses.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: It's to give our children tools so that they can
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: handle it and then have boundaries when it's too hard
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: to handle.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: But like got to pave the road, it is back.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: To pave the road. It is back to Adam Grant.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: What is one thing you wish someone would have told
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you before becoming a parent?
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: That you cannot control other people? I think that would
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: have been a good data point that I only learned
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: when I had kids. That's a good one.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I hope I'm not the only one who feels this way.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: I definitely want to become a parent, and I feel
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of apprehension about it. I really like work,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: and I put so much time and energy into it.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I barely have time to get a manicure or do laundry.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: How do like, I just can't wrap my brain around
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: how people do it all?
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you just sort of figure it out? You
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: just do.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: And also you have to know today that you can't
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: do it all, So don't worry about it, don't put
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: that on your don't burden yourself with that. You can
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: do a lot of it, and you can not do
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: it as intensely as you might if you didn't have kids.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: But there's a benefit because for your kids, when you're working,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: you're not like overparenting and for your work, you're prioritizing
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: and you're deciding what really really matters to you that
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: you have to do, and you're just like not yesing
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: the things that don't really matter. So it actually helps
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: you find balance. And also just knowing that you're not
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: going to be at every pickup, but you also aren't
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: going to be able to do every work thing. And
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: once you let go of that perfectionism, it's easy. What
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I mean is it's easy to get used to not
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: being like a plus at everything, Like I am a
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: solid bee and I am fine with that, and I
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: would never have said that twenty years ago, and maybe
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: sometimes like a B minus and whatever. I really feel
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: like fulfilled and great about it. And I think if
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: you can give yourself that comfort, which I do think
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: for women comes with time and necessity and to your
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: point about like you just find yourself there and all
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: of a sudden it figures itself out. And also you
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: need support. You absolutely need support. There is no chance
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: that this goes well for you know, without having like
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: a person who can support you and who you know
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: like you feel safe with.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can I ask you a incredibly personal question that
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: you can totally dismiss if you don't want to talk
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: about it. Of course, you mentioned at the beginning of
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: the interview that you were divorced.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I was like, also, you can't have it all.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: That has nothing to do with work and children, but
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: it does. It is true I am divorced, so that
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: takes out like a chunk.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Of Well, I only bring it out, bring it up
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: because you mentioned support, and so how do you navigate
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: that in terms like do you feel you still feel
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: supported it's just kind of a different relationship, or yeah,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: I think about this a lot because I wonder if
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I have space for being the kind of partner that
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I would like to be and the mother that I
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: would like to be, and have the job that I
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: would like to have, and be the friend that I
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: want to be. And so but I would say, like,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like, not even sure if this is something I
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: can say on here. But I would say, in terms
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: of friendships, I feel I feel like as as you
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: get older, the friendships that are not romantic. I would say,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: most of my friends are married at this point, but
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: they all crave their connection and like girls' weekends or whatever.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: And they're not all girls, so I just said girls weekend.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: But you think that changes because I think I'm thirty
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: and a lot of my friends are craving the romantic.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, I think it completely shifts. I think when you're thirty,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: you're like, I'm finding my person, I'm finding my soulmate,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: I'm figuring out my job, and your friends take a
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: little bit of a back burner. But then you get
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: to a point where your kids are old enough that
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: they have friends and they're like and you're like, huh,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: I crave my girlfriends right now, Like that's really weird.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: And it's not that I don't have romance in my life,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: it's just it's a different thing like I And also
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: most for the most part, they're people who have children also,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: so it's not I'm trying to be as general as possible,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: but so everybody's you know, working with having different priorities
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: and so it's easier to it. Certainly, I probably couldn't
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: be in a relationship with someone who didn't also work
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: and have children because I would not be a great
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: partner for them.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Right, You guys wouldn't be on the same page. So
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: you posted on Instagram, mom shame is the patriarchy's most
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: powerful tool. What did you mean by that? Well, actually,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: that's from God.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm blanking on where I got
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: that from. I think the reason why it resonated so
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: much with me is that there is just this unacceptable
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: expectation of mothers that is not on fathers, and it
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: is so hard to watch and I see it. And
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: this is like that weird relationship with Instagram where I
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: love it because I have a great community, but and
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: I love looking at it because I don't put myself
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: in the position of following things that make me feel bad.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: But when you go in the discovery section or like
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: whatever that's if you send a explore page, there's just
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: so much there that messes with moms. There's so much
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: there that messes with moms, and it feels like it's
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: coming from it's empowering the patriarchy. It's saying, like, you know,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: it's validating the idea that moms can't be certain things
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: or that they have to be other things, and it
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: is infuriating because no one has that expectation of working
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: fathers ever or not working fathers like I have. No
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: there's no you can be a working mom or a
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: part time working mom or a full time working mom.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: It's that's irrelevant. The expectation put on moms to be
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: any particular way feels very misogynistic snaps. So that's the
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: gift that I think we can give other mothers too,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: is just doing it our way, and that's that. And
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: of course there are going to be certain things that
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: are better for child outcomes that are just like fundamentals
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: of science. But then the rest back off everybody.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Right, And I think I hear from some of my
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: friends that are moms that it's other moms that are
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: doing it to them in a lot of ways, which
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: is also part of the patriarchy, but very convoluted exactly.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why that quote resonated with me because I
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: felt like, you know, we do moms certainly shame moms,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: but I think it's coming from this and that's why
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: it's convoluted to go through it, but it's coming from
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: the patriarchy. Yeah, it's a message that has been sent
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: from not moms, and it's now like, you know, it's
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: the same thing when women aren't supporting women.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: What's the biggest challenge for parents raising kids today do
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: you think.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: I think there's still a sense that it is on
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: you to be perfect and do it all and get
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: it all right. There isn't a lot of grace. There
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: just isn't a lot of grace for parents.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: On the flip side, what do you think that your
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: generation is doing better? Why are your kids better off
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: than the generation before?
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I do think there's an emphasis on emotional connection in
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: a way that you know, and we just have language
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: for emotions, and I think there's more of a general
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: acceptance of being able to sit and have emotions and
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: have relationships with our kids in a way that maybe
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: is deeper. I would say that dads are getting more
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: interested in that connection and involved, and that's really moving
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: in the right direction.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for both parents. Yeah, this is a hard one.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Should parents do what is in the best interest of
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: their kids or in the best interest of themselves?
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Well, if you're a martyr parent, like a martyr mom
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: is not doing any favors for her kids because your
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: kids know that you're being a martyr. It's they feel it,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: and so it's not so I think maybe there's a balance.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: This is a lame answer because I'm not I think
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: it's a little bit of both, because you have to
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: put your oxygen mask on first. You cannot survive and
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: kids cannot thrive. That's a huge part of resilience as
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: having that one mentally stable, available caregiver in your life.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: And if you need oxygen, you got to get it.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: So in that sense, you have to take care of
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: yourself first in order to take better care of your kid.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: And so I can't think of very many circumstances says
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: where you would be taking better care of your kid
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: in the service of your child for something for them
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: that isn't okay for you, because you would be martyring
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: yourself and it would just do no one any favors
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: healthy mom, Like a healthy mom for a shorter amount
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: of time in the day is infinitely more valuable than
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: one who's there all the time and just struggling.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: I have some rapid fire if there was one episode
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: of Raising Good Humans that you would want people to
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: listen to. Anybody who hasn't heard your podcast yet, where
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: would you point them?
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's such a genius question for anybody
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: doing any kind of work, And I have no idea.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: I think probably if you have kids that are younger.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: It would be an episodpisode with Tina Payne Bryson on
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Everything you want to Know about discipline.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that sounds interesting.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting. I think the thing about raising good
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: humans is that because it's for different ages, some episodes
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: resonate more for teenagers. Some episodes resonate more if you're
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: just like I am in it as a mom, I
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: just want to figure this out, or as a dad,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: and summer for babies. So it's a little bit all over,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: but hopefully each one you can translate to any age,
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: including you know, thirty.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: A parenting hack that you figured out.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: One parenting hack is that most things are just not
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: as important as we think they are, and so letting
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: go is one parenting hack.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: But that sounds like a life hacked.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a life hack. There's a phrase that I
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: use a lot. All feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: I think I mentioned it earlier, and it's a hack
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: because when you're sitting there, not knowing what to do
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: in a moment, you just ask yourself, did I accept
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: the feeling? Did I set a boundary on the behavior?
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: I am done here? My work is done.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: So I'm obsessed with questions, which is we're going to
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: get to the question of dat. But that is so
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: brilliant because it's like when you don't know what to do,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: you don't know what question to ask yourself exactly that's
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: the problem. So you just gave us the question.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: That's the that's the question, and you can pretty much
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: cover anything from tot to teen to husband. So right
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: there you go.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: It's true what should be required reading for every human.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: I read parenting books all the time that are wonderful.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: My favorite one probably is the Power of Showing Up
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: by Dan Siegel and Tina Paine Bryson. I think it's
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: beautiful for parents or non parents.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: What is a family tradition that you do with your
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: kids that you really love?
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: God, they always talk about our family tradition and being
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: so word. We celebrate half birthdays.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: I love that. They're very They're very like.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: With half the half of a kke, half of everything,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: half a present, half a song. We are so nuts
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: How did that start?
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: When my kids were little? My mother's was a kindergarten teacher,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: so like a lot of my traditions come from my mom,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: and she used to do it with us. So I
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: just carried that on and as soon as my daughter
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: was eighteen months, we did her first. We didn't do
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: a six month half birthday. We started eighteen months and
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I did. I physically made everything in half to try
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: to help it make sense. But now they're, you know, old,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: so it's ridiculous at this point. Okay, So I have
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: a pretty smart card deck. There's fifty two questions and
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: I have you buy every one pick which everyone speaks
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: to you. I mean, this guy's okay, here, okay, what
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: gift do you most often give? And then it says regift?
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Is that a question like do you regift?
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Well? I think it comes from and my mom listens
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: to every episode and then she'll call me and be like,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you said this about me. My mom
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: is an epic regifter. That's so fun anymore as much,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: but when I was growing up, it was like a
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: joke in our family, and I kept thinking, like, do
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: you regift? And if so, what are you regifting?
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: That's really funny only because the gift I most often
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: give is a used book, so it is a regift,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: but it's not my used book, right, But it is
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: a regift of some kind.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: So there you go. That's perfect. And last question, whatever
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: comes to your mind. What is the smartest decision you've
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: ever made?
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I guess having babies. Really, I feel
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: like that was kind of pretty up there.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Nobody has said that yet.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, I love that. I mean, I'm sure there
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: were other good ones.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Well, no, because I've always shocked at the answer, because
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: in some way or another, it's a version of betting
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: on myself. They'll say I moved to LA, I made
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: this choice. A few people will say my significant other,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: thank you, doctor Alisa, thank you so much for having me.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: You are so absolutely wonderful and I'm excited for you.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: All Right, Today is a good day. To have a
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: good day. I'll see you next week.