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The Mentor Sessions | The Secret to Finding Purpose After losing Everything · The Mentor Sessions

• Kurtis Gabriel: pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. And You wouldn't believe how how free you can live, man. The only thing that matters is you stay in the fight You were born having already passed the test, having already won the lottery. You are a miracle yourself. You have always been good enough. You can't not be good enough. It's physically, it's impossible to not be good enough. BigMike Coyle: Welcome back everyone to the mentor sessions. I am your host, Big Mike, and today I'm really excited to have a special guest today. we met while working on a separate podcast together, and I invited him to be on the podcast, and he was more than gracious to offer his time to us. my guest today is Curtis Gabriel, a former professional hockey player from Canada. he was drafted by Minnesota, played in Minnesota. Chicago San Jose and New Jersey, the Red Devils So I'm really excited. I I'm still new to learning about hockey, as I searched Curtis a little bit, he was quite the enforcer with the teams. found some awesome video of some awesome fights. But that's not what the game's about, but that's what his role it was. And we're gonna talk about how he got into that role and his experiences and and where life is taking him now, 'cause he's doing some really great stuff for people now. So Curtis, thanks for joining us on the mentor session. Kurtis Gabriel: Thank you very much, brother. We're one. So glad to join you. BigMike Coyle: Thank you. why don't you just start out and and tell the audience a little about your your history and how you got into professional hockey and just start from the beginning 'cause there's crazy sidetracks that I know were gonna go down when we start telling that story. Kurtis Gabriel: Yeah, so I was born Newmarket, Ontario, forty five minutes north of Toronto, the hockey center of the world. And two parents that were very athletic but more into like squash and baseball and basketball and s kind of summertime warm sports. but I played all those, but I just hockey was my thing. It was the coolest, most badass, biggest thing around. It just was something different. I wasn't as good at it as other sports. I was much better at baseball. It just did something for me. And started playing at, you know, five years old, just on the pond. Started playing organized at six, seven, eight, nine. And then I was playing, here's the levels for you, because you don't know hockey. Triple A is the highest level of minor hockey. Then double A, single A, select, and house league. So I went house league, select, single A, and I tried out for the local triple A team, didn't make it, my dad said, No, you're good enough to play triple A now. I know it. We're gonna go play somewhere else. And I said, Dad, what are you talking about? let me just play double A. I haven't even played double A yet. He's No, you're good enough. So, Dad took me to a couple towns over, tried out for that team, and I remember going out there and just fell into the moment with his belief in me. And the next thing a couple of days later or sitting in front of this coach, he's going, I don't know who the hell you are, but I can't not put you on the team. So guess welcome to Triple A. And I remember looking up at my dad and he's just BigMike Coyle: How how old were you at that time? Kurtis Gabriel: ten years old. BigMike Coyle: Is that common for a ten year old to be put on a triple A team? Kurtis Gabriel: no, there's there's kids that are already been playing AAA since seven, eight, nine years old, yeah. Yeah, BigMike Coyle: really? Okay, I gotcha. I gotcha. Kurtis Gabriel: so it's pretty serious. Just like you guys have serious football, serious baseball, basketball, everything down there. It's it's it's hardcore from a young age if you want to do it. And I was always athletic. I I was walking at eight months, I was hitting a ball, I was popping out above out of a T at a year and two months. I was just ahead of the curve with those things. And yeah, I made that team my d it I didn't even think I was good enough, and now I make this highest level, and I'm going. This is what life's gonna be. I'm gonna play hockey. I'm gonna be a hockey player, and dad's gonna believe in me, and we're gonna go as far as we can go. And that's where I was gonna get my happiness from. Hockey, that external validation from my dad. And made that team, and and two weeks later my dad ran into training to take his own life. And BigMike Coyle: I've heard that from you I think two or three times now and I'm gonna tell you, dude, it it still hits me like a wrecking ball, you know, hearing it. I can't imagine at ten years old the impact that had on you because those of us that are blessed to have a good, involved parent, especially a father for young men, thinking that our father is no longer there. If you can go back and I don't want to take you back too dark, but tell me about like how did your ten year old mind try to grasp what was going on? Kurtis Gabriel: Yeah, that's just where I was going, dude. I have no problem getting dark. Believe me, it's a matter of can I not go too far for people out there? I'm mercilessly vulnerable because I know that's where life begins and where my life began again. So when I thought it was just he died and I wasn't told why or how, it was two weeks of like just the world just lacked color. It turned to grayscale. It was flipped upside down. I just How could that happen to the coolest guy ever? That guy was like my support, my rock. He was gonna we were gonna do this hockey thing together. But then two weeks later, when a guy at school came to school and his uncle had taken his own life, and I said to my mom, I said, Hey mom, Joseph's uncle took his own life, and my mom went, Boys, put your forks down. I don't want you to hear this from somebody other than me, so I need to tell you. Your dad took his own life. That grey depression of a dream turned into white hot rage and anger like that. And some people might have gone more down depressive road. We all have our own different makeups. I was always a hard charging, passionate guy 'cause that's what my dad was. He was hard charging. He was the point guard in his basketball team, he was the pitcher on his baseball team, but he also worked with disabled kids. He also drove a shitty beige sedan and didn't care. He was like this cool, vulnerable but tough, confident guy. And I just went, he did what? and didn't even leave me anything behind to say see a kid, love ya, just and it just dude, I got so angry. And from ten to fifteen, I got anger and anger. The first time I got drunk at a house party, I broke down out in a field on the way home with my friend and just like screamed at the moon, like, where the fuck are you? what how could you do that? To my brother's three years younger than me. How could you do that to us? And my parents weren't together anymore, but still, now you're leaving my mom to do this by herself. And at sixteen, I had just gone back to playing single A and double A hockey, not the highest level, because that year I just lost all my confidence and my dad was gone. So I just went back to playing for fun. And at 16, I was ready to hang up my skates, never play again, kind of figure out what they're gonna do to move on with my life. And I felt like I had to become somebody. I felt like I had to prove to my dad that like he should have stuck around. But my mom poked her head in my room and was like, Do you wanna go travel for the local junior A team? So it'd be like down in the south, it'd be like, Hey, do you wanna go travel for varsity high school or something? Or like, you know, a travel team. And I went, Why? She's like, Well, why not? Do you always like them growing up? You're in shape. I know you're about to hang up. Hang up the skates forever. Why not just go out for fun? It's fifty bucks. And I was like, Okay, Mom. And I went out there, dude, and just like that trout at 10 years old, but this time without dad, it was like it just somebody ripped the cord of the Walmart, kick-started that motorbike, and I was just like, my heart just like, I'm gonna do this without that motherfucker. I'm gonna do this without him. And I just rose to the occasion. I'd always been a smart player. I wasn't the fastest, it wasn't the biggest, it wasn't the strongest, but I competed and I loved the game and I thought the game well. And I just played better with better players. And they were like, again, I'm in front of this coach and he's like, Who the hell are you? You know, I can't take you from double A to junior A. It's too big of a jump. You have to go play triple A another year and then come back. And I went, okay. And from that day forward, I just the blinders went on and I was already playing in the NHL in my mind. And then later that year, when a coach looked at me and said, Kid, I know you want to make it. I know you want to play pro hockey, but you ain't gonna make it scoring goals or skating circles around people. You're gonna make it hitting people. And if you hit people, you're gonna have to fight people. And I said, sign me up. Never been in a fight off the ice. Goody two shoes, teachers, boy, son. Perfect report cards, son behavior. But now I'm a bare knuckle fighter on the ice to go prove to my dad he should have stuck around. And from 17 to 23, I went on a rocket ship ride from nowhere, absolute nowhere in hockey to playing in the NHL. BigMike Coyle: When That coach pretty much guided you to being the enforcer. And I'm sure you knew what that position was and stuff like that. And and you talk about being a goody two shoes. You you'd never been in a fight or anything like that. Did you feel a sense that all that pent up rain rage and and maybe confusion and anger that you've been feeling? now I finally get to just let that getting on the ice was the time to I'm letting it all out now. Kurtis Gabriel: I think it was buried. because I've deconstructed my life and I've written a book that'll come out next year on all this and I've it's so easy to look back twenty twenty hindsight, but at the time it was like I was convincing myself that it really really wasn't about him. It was like, no, this is my dream. I you know, screw him, but it it's under the hood. It's unconscious. And as the great late Carl Jung said, you know, if you don't make the unconscious conscious, it'll dictate your life and you'll call it fate. So that's what happened to me. I had all this rotting all these rotting wounds underneath that I didn't know were there and I just was like I I was passionate about the game. I love the game. It was my first thing before all this sh shit happened. But had my dad been around and I got told if I want to make it I was going to fight he would have like dude no you're gonna go play defense instead of forward. You're gonna play the game. Maybe I would I would have gotten a scholarship, I'm sure I was a late bloomer. I would have played college and then I could have maybe been like when I go to turn pro, there was a kid, you have to fight if you turn pro. My dad would say, Go try it. But if you don't want to try it, you got your degree, go go live your life. It would have been something much more, kosher, much more relaxed. but this was just like burn the boats. I'm going there. I don't care who I have to fight, I don't care what I have to do. And because I had didn't have that father's guidance, I had this amazing mother who was the perfect. feminine energy of mother of just unconditional love no matter what I could always come back to. If I didn't have her, I'd probably be in jail or dead. Probably dead. I didn't have that guided mail, like you said, and I got sucked into pornography. I got sucked into lust and women and gluttony and food and greed and envy and power hungry and just ego to the max that I could really manipulate and hide. It was I knew I was like rotten and shameful on the inside, but the outside I looked like this model citizen because I got off on that too. That was like my ego as well. So nobody checked me. Nobody, I didn't have that male line to go like not smack me physically, but like put me in my place. And BigMike Coyle: Mm-hmm. Kurtis Gabriel: man. So it was it was very unconscious. Very unconscious. And because I wasn't into the hard drugs, the cocaine, the drinking, all these things. It was like of course that big tall skinny kid's gonna eat his face off every fucking day. Of course he's gonna chase girls. Of course he's gonna do this like that's what the guys do. Let him have his fun. So it was like encouraged all the way through. And I built a whole identity around. BigMike Coyle: you bring up a a very few radical points, and I don't mean radical in a negative way. needing that male line to kind of put us in check. and that's where I think mentors and and they don't have to be male, like you you mentioned the the role your mother took and played in your life, right? But as as young men, and this is just a personal belief, as we grow, if we don't have older men to the way you were describing how the the coaches like, hey dude, you're gonna be an enforcer and your dad's like, No, I don't see that for you, man. go play defense, go go put your strengths here and stuff like that. And then coaches in one way I think it's a good thing because they see a skill that they know that you can harness, but in another way, are they harnessing it for their benefit or for your benefit? are they looking out for the the team and as well as Curtis, or are they just looking out for the team? And I I think that's where as coaches, as as you know, as you got to be an older guy on the team on some of these teams, you kinda having to say that to the rookies and stuff like that, you know, like, Okay, hey, here's what you need to know, or else you're gonna go down the dark traps that especially once their ego starts taking over. And I like the way that you put it. You could have done anything and it's just like, well, yeah, he's a professional hockey player. And they strip away who Curtis is. Kurtis Gabriel: That's it. I think I was fortunate that I never was forced to fight. It truly was always my decision. I never had to be told. I was drooling. I'd tell the coach I'm going out to fight and be like, okay. But you're right. It's I love this quote from Steve Harvey. Hit me like a brick wall when I heard it. He said, you know, use even though we there's fathers out there that are struggling and can't be this for their sons, they deep down feel it. I think every father is that from what I understand, I'm not a father. Your father's the only true man that truly wants you to be better than him. And I felt that. And that's how my dad made me feel. and these coaches, they they didn't want to, they could find another guy to fight. They could tell I wanted it so bad because I worked so hard, dude. So they they were giving me what they could, but they weren't my dad, they didn't. see me and go, he's my responsibility and I want to make sure he's better than me. I can make like they just said, hey kid, if you wanna do it, go for it. Why the fuck not? Right? That's where they're at. That and there's nothing wrong with that. But my like you said, my dad would have gone, Hmm, that's not you. if I'd been like gr a kid that's violent growing up or something, maybe no, but I wasn't. So I I think you nailed it there. I think it's my dad would have just had that extra layer of care where it's like, hey, this is my young future male lion that's gonna take over thing. It's like I gotta make sure he's on the right path. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, and you talk about how your coaches said, hey, you're not gonna outskate everybody or outscore everybody. This is a path. If you want to get to the show, this is the path you have to take. this is where I struggle with some of these messages that are shared from different coaches and stuff like that. And it's one that as as a coach, I try not to share. went back and have gotten back into full contact football and stuff, is realizing I was never going to be the fastest, strongest, But what I did know I had, and it sounds like this is kind of where you were at too, I'll be sure to be the one to outwork everyone else. I wanna ask, because I've heard you say in other interviews and we when we were talking on coach in the gang, you said about the smile your dad got on his face and then two weeks later is when he he took his life. Do you feel like that was he was setting that up to get that ball rolling so that way you had that because he knew he wasn't going to be there for you. Kurtis Gabriel: brother, I don't wanna get too much into it because in my book, there's this pretty powerful thing that's happened in the time that I was writing my book that is in it, but that you are you're all over it. Let's just say that. It's BigMike Coyle: Ha ha ha ha. Kurtis Gabriel: it's growing up I was raised with zero religion, spirituality, anything to do with other than treat your neighbor good, which is you know it's funny because we actually live like really Christian principles of like love each other. We didn't love God, we didn't believe that. Love each other, love your neighbor. Pretty much the same thing. But not. And we treated people amazing. Treat people how you want to be treated, like no problems ever. But all that shit just weirded me out. It just like, what the what all these people like talking of all this stuff that you can't see? And all them say all this stuff, but then they don't live it, they don't walk it, they're all hypocrites. But back then, that's because I was so terrified of death and fear and all these things. So yeah, I I'm not I don't I don't get into that part of my origin story because it's kind of for a different audience at times, but I I had like a dream come to me at at put the fear of everything in me. And I thought not only is my dad gonna help me with hockey, he's gonna f as long as I got him, he'll keep me safe. And then when he checked out, it became everything was just life or death, it felt like I knew I wanted to be happy, but I have this time limit, this thing's gonna come get me. It took dad or he chose to go with it. I don't know, this dark, dark energy really enveloped me as a young guy. And it's funny. On the other end of things now, where I'm at and how I look at it that yeah, there was a lot of deep meaning being portrayed through my life's events that I now know kinda exactly what happened. BigMike Coyle: I don't know what that's like. And we we shared briefly as an icebreaker before we hit record some of those things that we've experienced. we've talked a little bit here and there, And dude, I really enjoy the energy you bring and and you said it here. We are all one. When you're talking about I didn't grow up with a god knowing what a god is, and but now when we look back and we're like, hell, there's more going on, maybe. And I I dude, I will be the first one to say I don't know all the answers. I see like a smorgasbord of religion out there of things you can take. But the core roots are what you said just be a good person, love your neighbor, don't hurt people. if that's the core of everyone's beliefs, why do we have all this infighting about who's right and wrong? So, Kurtis Gabriel: Right. BigMike Coyle: as you were started playing and you talked about the role that your mom had for you, did any of these coaches on these teams, knowing your background, knowing your history, did any of the coaches or any other men in your life try to step up and help give you that male guidance? Kurtis Gabriel: This is where it gets interesting because I was simultaneously so mad at my dad, Mike, but he was also, there's nobody better than him. Nobody could measure up. And I took that very personally because he modeled this unbelievable man that I now could never live up to. No, sorry, that nobody else could live up to, but I was gonna surpass. So everybody el every guy was below me automatically. That's what was ingrained in me. And fuck did that mess me up. Because I remember Tom Jackson, I your minor hockey coach, Joe Paccioni. And I look back now and I always wonder why they kind of came and went. They'd be there for me and then they would pull away, or they wouldn't be there for me. And my mom even noticed it. But I thought they were the problem. But they were not the problem. Me. I pushed them away. I had a grandfather who was amazing, but he had his own wounding. So he was a great role model, but wasn't vulnerable because he couldn't be, because he had his own stuff that he never dealt with. And then I had a stepdad who was even more wounded emotionally, who's not in my life anymore, who couldn't even look himself in the mirror and his problems. So I was perfectly guided by life or my dad or whatever you want to say to go into being the vulnerable lone wolf, just fuck everybody, I'm doing it myself. And that's that's the curse. But it is also my medicine. So I never had a role model ever. No mentor. Nobody I could call as a male to pick up the phone. Never. And that's why I ran amok. That's why my first billet house here in Owen Sound is still so close to Tracy and Sean Walker. Shout them out. I'm way closer to Tracy than Sean because I just it's who I was at the time. We've we've gone better now. I'm more open now, but I just resonated with women, right? Because I had my mom. So I had all these moms, but no male figure. And I didn't get a male figure through my it took a lot of pain and suffering until that person came around. So from 10 years old, my dad takes his life all the way till. Yeah, twenty years. Twenty years until I was willing to surrender to someone basically as a mentor. BigMike Coyle: What does that mean, surrender to someone? That sounds like an interesting thought. Kurtis Gabriel: Yeah, it sure is. it sure is. For someone who's built up an ego that I'm the man, I'm the best. People are gonna walk in a room behind me and go, you know who that is? You know what happened to his dad and look who he made himself into and I'd be like, Yeah, fucking red idea 'cause I'm better than my dad. That's the energy I had. But it took seemingly what I thought everything taken away from me at the time. Looking back, it wasn't, but it was where I was at the time. It felt like everything was taken from me. Twenty-nine years old. I have to retire because my wrist breaks down. I've had multiple surgeries on it. Everywhere else is healthy, but I always push for the next contract. I never took time off to get arthroscopic surgery to take care of it. I'm like, wrist's never gonna end my career. It'll be sore, it'll be fine. Yeah, until it wasn't, until I couldn't shoot a puck. And I'm not a goalscorer, but you need a guy that can handle a stick and I couldn't anymore. So I'm twenty-nine years old, the rest of my body's healthy. There's this three by four inch patch my wrist that renders me useless. I thought I was gonna play till I'm forty. Play like how you are playing in late in later in life, playing in some League in Japan in hockey, just having fun. But here I am and I'm just I don't know who the fuck I am anymore. I've my whole identity's taken away. What I've done since what I've loved since five years old and what I did nothing else from sixteen to twenty nine, thirteen years of nothing else. I'm talking minimal partying, minimal anything, just straight isolation almost, two girlfriends, that's it, and focus. And I retire and it just all imploded on me, dude. Imploded on me. And because I was a porn and sex addict, I was dating an OnlyFans model. She was The point zero one percent top OnlyFans model selling her body online making millions of dollars. And I was helping her, working with her, doing this whole thing. I don't know what else to do. I'm like doing this. And all this traumatic s just stuff happening to me. I just it all came out. I got labeled with bipolar two, anxiety, depression, O C D like tendencies, autistic tendencies. Clearly addicted to binge eating edibles, wheat edibles. this relationship, this sweet soul who I'm still close with, mirrored all these things to me. And all my poison came out, and had to look at it all. And it was when all of that got so bad, the pain was so I just I could understand why my dad wanted to take his life now. I could understand that pain. But I could never do that because I swore to my mom and brother I would never would. And That's honestly probably the greatest gift that I never did get there because of him. But living seems scarier than dying. But as Tony Robbins says, change happens when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain it takes to change. And I hit that point. It was way scarier to stay where I was than to not put in the work. And that's when Michael A. Singer came into my life. And maybe people may not be familiar with him. He's a world-renowned best-selling author and spiritual teacher. From Northern Florida. he describes himself as a Jewish born, Christ loving yogi. So his his temple's called the temple of the universe. You could be atheist, you could be Hitler, you could be anybody. You come to his temple, you're welcome. BigMike Coyle: Well, and that's that goes back to that shmorgis sport of taking the best from all of it, Kurtis Gabriel: Exactly. BigMike Coyle: yourself. And that's what That's why things that I do love, I love lifting heavy because you're challenging, but you're also you have to connect with yourself. golf is the same way for me because you have to focus on what's in front of you. That moment right there in front of you. I talk a lot about my love for watches and timekeeping and time because for me the watch the symbol of this is the time we have right now. Don't worry about what's in the past. Don't worry about what's in the future. Worry about this time right now. it reminds us to take time for ourselves because you said, you were focused, not and and being driven and goal focused is important, but it wasn't about the goal, it wasn't about the success and and getting to play pro hockey. It was about proving to your dad you were gonna be better than him. Kurtis Gabriel: And I was never present. I did drop into the present to do things and push myself and train all of course, but it was always about the next hill, the next thing to climb, the next achievement, the next and it it's the desires of this world, as a great Sufi mystic wrote, are like drinking seawater. More you drink, thirstier you get. BigMike Coyle: it's always about the next contract. getting more and and proving your value and stuff in the next contract. And Kurtis Gabriel: 'Cause it was it w it was getting to the NHL is one thing, but I didn't then once I played there, I had to become a full timer. And if I pay him a full timer, it would have been how I how do I get the two million dollar contract? How it never would've ended, bro. Never. So I got a taste, fifty-one games NHL, and I realized how sweet it was to fulfill your ego's dream. my god, is it intoxicating? I was sleeping three, four hours a night, training all day, bouncing out of bed in the morning, insane. Ins my energy I'm very sensitive and I could the energy just would flow through me and then when you get that taken away I felt like I'd never be happy the rest of my life because I'd always be that has been. I got a taste of what it was like but I never fulfilled it. I never got it to I never took it all away and I have to live with that aftertaste. So that's what was haunting me BigMike Coyle: But you bring up a a very great point that I think all of us go through when we transit make those life transitions. So for me it was my career in law enforcement. and I've actually known parents who go through this. Their whole identity becomes that thing that they are right then. And when you're no longer that thing, so for parents. You're always going to be a parent. But when your kids are out of the house and you're not the primary influence in their sphere, if you will, the impact that has on a parent of I'm not a parent anymore. I'm not mom anymore. Well, you are. Now you get to be mom and grandma, which is a great experience, or dad and grandpa, which is a great experience. But and not being a cop anymore and being in that camaraderie and that brotherhood. you feel that sense of loss, okay, who am I now? What am I now? And that hurts. When you try to describe the pain you're going through when you're in depression and anxiety and dealing with trauma, I remember when it was first starting to really manifest. And my wife was like, What's wrong? And I said, I hurt. Now, you and I, because of our athletic backgrounds, when we talk about pain, we know what physical pain feels like, but we can't describe the words to describe what emotional hurt feels like. But we just know. Our body is manifesting itself in the same way as if we got punched in the face I felt that inside when all of a sudden I couldn't cope and I couldn't deal with what was going on inside my world at that moment anymore. Kurtis Gabriel: Physical pain can't hold a candle to psychological pain. BigMike Coyle: you said it yourself. you start understanding. if this is what my father was feeling, I understand why he did what he did. and it doesn't make it any easier. It do but it kinda helps you like, okay, I think I can understand. And it gives you more grace and more kindness to those that have either lost a family member or closed one to to taking their own life or those that have tried and not succeeded. You're you're a lot more understanding. Kurtis Gabriel: Yes. However. When you're in it, that's how you feel. Where I sit now, there is no excuse for it. I there's not it's people, some people have their path, but there's no such thing. I I went through the phase of, you know, dad was sick. You know, he was sick. It's like, no, no. I've lived it. it's something we don't understand properly. And BigMike Coyle: I I agree with you there. We don't understand it. Kurtis Gabriel: We don't. Psychiatry just throws labels around and Big Pharma throws meds around. They can help you in acute situations. They're tools. All these things are tools. Medication, therapy, diet, exercise, community, sleep. Those are great six pillars, and you can get through the debilitating psychological pain. You can trim the weed down, but that motherfucker grows back. What do you do when you pull out a weed? the root is, and the root is mindfulness, spirituality, consciousness, whatever you want to call it, whatever works, nature, whatever you want to call, there's no rules. Why, why is that? Because We are it. BigMike Coyle: doing all of those things, like you said, you're trim, you're just trimming the weeds down. I think all those things will help you get to the root. Because like I said, I will be in pain. and I can't describe what that pain is or where it's coming from. It's not like having acid reflux. It's not like getting punched in the face. You just know your body just knows it's in pain. It's in the same tense, stress induced feeling that being in in a car accident, in a fight that you're in. So you have to use all those tools to help you and get to those roots. we're talking about pulling up a weed, and and that's what trauma and that's what all this stuff is, is there weeds in your mind. Okay. Let's use that analogy, that that imagery here. When you pull a weed and you pull all those roots, you see all the branches off of them. You also see everything that's entangled in that weed. And you're like, Man, no wonder why I'm sweating pulling a a little one-inch branch because it's dug in so deep into everything else. So I agree with you 100%. All of those things will help you start getting down in there, getting around the roots. But first and foremost, it's up to the person to decide. I have to pull this root out. You know, you had to deal with the anger and the rage for as long as you were a professional athlete and as long as you were playing hockey, really, you got to deal with all that come game time on the ice. And all you did was just put bandages over it. All you were doing was just taking off the top layer so nobody could see it. And you were using that ego to to really show like here's the beautiful lawn. Don't look at the big, weed. growing right in the middle. Just look at the lawn. But in the middle is this pain and this hurt. And then when your hockey career ended why'd you quit playing hockey? I jacked up my wrist. You wouldn't think like that's gonna ruin a hockey career. You know, it And and just to be blunt about it, someone who doesn't understand athleticism and how these things, they're in their mind going, Bussy. Yeah. Kurtis Gabriel: That's what I was doing to myself. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Well, that's what we do is that's what we do to ourselves all the time. how many times we've got our trainers and our coaches and stuff saying, Hey, dude, stay out of the gym for a little bit. Give yourself your body some time to recover. And it's like, I'll recover when I'm dead. I've said that so many times. Kurtis Gabriel: I couldn't tell anybody. I didn't tell anybody. My mom didn't even know. I couldn't even I didn't even want to look at it. I I got it shot up with cortisone. Just it's fine. I didn't even I it didn't even cross my mind that it would end that way. BigMike Coyle: Right. But I I'm I'm talking about to ourselves and I'm not saying the coach came out and said, Hey dude, you need to settle down but because of this injury, but there's times where they're like, Hey, Curtis, you're really pushing it. Take a take a couple days recovery and you're like, Nope, I'm good. I'm not hurting and inside you're like you feel every nook and cranny of getting out of bed in the morning. Kurtis Gabriel: Yeah. I didn't even tell it nobody could even say that because I didn't tell anybody. it was so hidden. I just played through pain for years. And it just got to the point where I literally couldn't do my job. I trained so much that's the only way I had confidence on the ice to play with these amazing players. I did so much extra work. That's also what broke it down, the constant use of it. So that that that work ethic that you build bec is your what gets you there. It's a double edged sword, it becomes your prison. Becomes what undoes you. BigMike Coyle: so you you how did you get in contact with Michael Asinger? How did you guys find each other? Kurtis Gabriel: He f he he f I couldn't keep him away from me. and it's not the traditional way. It's exactly what I needed on my journey. I did when I was twenty-seven, after two years before my career ended, I started to realize there's something really messed up going on up here. And my brother, offered me two books. One was Eckertolli, The Power of Now, one was Michael A. Singer's Untethered Soul. And Eckhart Tolli didn't vibe with me. I like Michael. Michael had the the mustache like my dad did. He when he spoke, he was so eloquent. His whole f body lit up. He was just, it's like, wow, that that's someone who looks like they're happy as hell hell. I read two chapters and I threw it in the closet because it scared the shit out of me. Because he told me I was not. my mind, my body, my thoughts. And I went, what the fuck? Went back into suffering for years, And then I found that he was giving lectures at his temple every week, three days a week. So I started listening to those every week on repeat. I read all of his books. I did all his online courses. I kept reading, I kept reading, and I started piecing together. This is what's going on? My dad didn't want to die. Nobody wants to kill themselves. They their ego wants to die. We've all heard about ego, death, and all this. That is what if you are identified with that, that's why people kill themselves. They go, I'm in so much of that psychological pain we're talking about. That they think I just gotta end it, I can't take it anymore. That's not them, that's their ego that wants to be shed away like snakeskin. So I started to see that, and I went, so then that's what's wrong with me is this identity I built of who I think I am. And I started doing the work, meditating, starting and stopping, reading, meditating, starting and stopping, reading, meditating over. Just I turned the discipline will that I cultivated to get to the NHL on fire, and I turn that into devotional will To free myself. And I put every out that's what I know now. That discipline that took me to the NHL only was preparing me for this healing journey. The discipline it takes to lean in. And I kept leaning in and I kept biting off more than I could chew, chewing it, spitting it out, going back for more. Fail falling on my face, falling on my addictions over and over again. On and off medication, on and off with my partner. Chaos, chaos, trying to change everything. And it f it really took a massive uptick when I met him because we were on a content shoot, me and my partner driving through Florida, and then I realized, like, like, of course, the only the of all places in the world, this guy who's changed my life now through just his books and his lectures, he is right near where we're driving by, near Jacksonville. So I left her at the Airbnb and I just took off in the through the night, backwoods, no reception to his temple, because he speaks there three nights a week. I get there right before he gets in. I sit down to it's all quiet. There's seventy five people in there. I felt my heart expanding already. I watched him do exactly what he does before every lecture. I've been hearing it for years, listening, listening, studying him, learning everything about him. He did exactly as he said he did. He did everything. He went up and spoke. I got to ask him a question. I saw someone living what they were saying. Like truly. It felt like I saw another version of my dad, but he actually backed it up, you know? And from then on, everything just, you know, hear about, you know, a guru or teacher or whatever, but that's what's so magical. And he always just pointed. the power back to me, that I was the one that was pr imprisoning myself in my mind by holding on to all these hurts BigMike Coyle: You made a great point that This was your dad, but he backed it up. Kurtis Gabriel: This was the mentor that I've always been looking for. Someone that I could literally go, that guy's better than me. He gets it. He backs up everything he says. I can follow that. That's the surrender. And that's his whole message is to surrender to life, to surrender to everything that comes as the exact thing that's supposed to come to you, to help you grow, to serve you. Everything's happening for you. It couldn't not. And all this teachings that I've been just working on just soaked in even more. And Everything he said, I can go back through the whole thing. He said, one day you'll wake up after doing this work. You'll wake up and wonder how you ever thought there was such a thing as a bad day. And I remember that day, November 6th, 2024. You'll wonder you'll wonder why you anybody is ever thinks they're suffering. Remember that day. everything he said has come true. BigMike Coyle: I am so glad that you found him because the path you were going on As much as you didn't want to, who knows where that path could have taken you just to end the pain. went to his temple when you were going on a content shoot with your partner at the time How hard was that for you to being in that world while your mind is starting to be like, I don't want to be in this world anymore. Kurtis Gabriel: You nailed it, brother. BigMike Coyle: how how do you tell your partner, yeah, I don't wanna be with you anymore if this is what you're gonna do? Kurtis Gabriel: Rather. It was like getting flayed alive, skinned alive. Because there's so many nuances to it. I went through the whole spiritual ego of it, of this is wrong, this is awful. I went through that. I went through you gotta just live your life. I gotta live mine, but we're not compatible anymore. But we love each other. You we know we do, but you come into a relationship at the same level of wounding, that's why you resonate with someone, and then your wounds will reflect back off of each other when I was seven years older and going through a lot of pain so I was willing to do the work and I raised my consciousness and she wasn't ready to. So god damn did I try. And I knew the whole time it was never gonna work. And that was that was hell man. my mom raised me with like insane morality, like right and wrong. We do people right, we don't do like to almost to the point of like too uptight, making sure people are like okay and we're being moral, we double checking nobody thinks badly about us like too much. So I was LGBTQ advocate, Black Lives Matter, like over the top, calling you're bad, you're wrong, I'm right, you're like just It's it's fucking hell living that way, man. And I now know, because I live it every day, that the Rumi quote, the famous best poet of all time, my opinion, he said, Beyond right and wrong, there is a field, and I'll meet you there. And brother, it is peace. BigMike Coyle: Beyond right and wrong, there is peace. and and I think that's something that we get caught up too much in the world in general of trying to just prove we're right and you're wrong. I wanna ask you, you said something and and I'd like to get into it. one of the things that you took a stance was inclusivity in the NHL. and you caught some flack and some backlash for that. What was that like going into the locker rooms and and being on the team and and standing up for what you believed in while being denigrated and and you know, being told stay in your lane type thing. Kurtis Gabriel: Yeah. Well, fortunately I was the toughest guy most of the time on every team, so nobody could really mess with me that way. And I was so aggressive back then that they knew not even to get in a conversation with the bit with me because they weren't gonna win it. Whether physically, confrontationally, verbally, whatever, logically, you're not gonna win. You all you can say is, Well, I don't believe 'cause God said so. It's like, Okay, shut the fuck up, get out of here. gay people are bad. It's like, okay, man. So I never got any problems from locker room guys. I got support, if anything. I think obviously there's probably front offices that were like, let's just pass on this guy in free agency. Don't deal with his stuff off the ice. got the King Clancy nomination with the NHL. People really appreciate it overall. And this is what I think people miss is that the NHL in society is very inclusive. But it's the people who run society who are not. There's a board of governors of the NHL. They make the rules. There's elites that run all the politicians. They make the rules. They they pull the strings. So there's a lot of people. There's a very loud majority that's against LGBTQ and all this blah blah blah. The ground just moves under them. So I really didn't deal with too much. I was already a hard charging person and I was like, screw them, they're all wrong anyway, because I was so locked in the morality thing. So wasn't that hard, man? BigMike Coyle: I think it's very comical. when someone has a platform and takes a public stance, you can tell, as long as it agrees with our stance, we're all, yeah, that's great. Yeah, Curtis is standing up, that's great. But then as soon as they say something that disagrees with our stance, it's what a moron. What he needs to keep his mouth shut and just play hockey. And like you said, between right and wrong, there's a field we'll all meet in. I'll throw a barbecue and invite everyone. All I want you to do is just come have a barbecue. And I I know you don't eat meat now. and and let's just sit down and break bread and share a meal together. because that means more to me than what we believe and not believe. Because at the end of the day, you and I are just both people. I know I've taken a lot of your time, dude. I appreciate you so much. I appreciate just spending time with you and learning from you and learning how you've overcome so much. For you in your case, catching that triple A 10-year-old kid and saying, I've got you. I see you. I know what you're the pain you're going through, and I want to help you not go through the pain I went through in this step. So talk about the next arena, talk about what you're doing and how you're trying to share those messages to make life better for those around you. Kurtis Gabriel: You brother for opportunity. And I want say every conversation where I speak to someone who's vulnerable like yourself, I learn just as much. So thank you for your presence and thank you for your time because I'm learning through you as well. but here's the thing: we can pass these around, these messages as as we've been mentored, and then we pass it along, but it doesn't have to be loud, it can be quiet. BigMike Coyle: no, Kurtis Gabriel: Do it quietly or you can do it loudly. It's there's no right or wrong answer. You don't have to do anything. That's that's the freedom of the path that I'm on, is that there is now nothing to do. And as my brother coined this beautiful term, once you realize you don't have to do anything, you can do anything. And there's a term in Japan called ikigai. And that is a think of a four-way Venn diagram that combines in the middle the four aspects and they all cross over in the middle. what the world needs, what you're good at, what you can make money doing, and how you can serve like your fellow man. I think I missed one in there. There's four things that converge and and and that is your want to carry out your purpose, your life's calling, whatever that is. So, you know. People always said I was gonna be a commentator, an announcer, an entertainment. I actually did personality tests with the NHLPA when I was freaking out, thinking I was gonna retire earlier than even I did. And it said you're either gonna work in managing people or in entertainment. So I thought, okay, I'll be a color commentator. But then I went down this whole path and realized that I've always been being groomed by life to be that kind of reflection mirror pointer, not even a coach, just someone who can sit with someone in the shit and go, I know. And they keep talking about how bad it is, and you just go, I know. And talking they keep talking about how bad it is, you go, I know, and say, Here's my hand. You don't have to take it, but I'm here if you want it. BigMike Coyle: you said something that, dude, I can't get out of my head because man, it is probably the most powerful thing. Once you realize you don't have to do anything, you can do anything. Look at the path that you were on. It was all about like you had to get the next contract, you had to get the next award, you had to get all these things. And once you stopped having Having to do this, I have to do this. Look at what you've been able to do and build. And that I think is so much of an amazing aspect of life that I will honestly say this is part of my own experience and my own expectations. And why I'm sitting here now doing this is because. I went from law enforcement, I went into corporate, I went into I still have to keep grinding, keep grinding, and then realizing I don't have to do this. my wife, she got her master's in accounting. She told me, hey, retire from law enforcement. You've done your duty. I would work three, four jobs a day, you know, different companies, different little side gigs and stuff like that to try to put bread on the table and stuff and get the bills paid. 'cause she was raising our kids. when she said, Hey bud, it's your turn. It's your time to experience and And, especially when I told her I wanted to start the podcast and stuff like that. And she's so supportive. My wife is amazing. I'd love for you to get to meet her. She is just an amazing human being. But when I told her, hey, I need to do this, it was like, yeah, okay, we'll figure it out. I'll support you. Because she knew that I needed to do this and I needed to stop having to do something so that I could do anything. And I've done, I'm doing so much more now that. It fills my bucket, it fills my well and it fills my soul like you're talking about. you coined it right there. You nailed it. Kurtis Gabriel: Brother, it's that's what it's all about right there. It's what it's all about. Rock star life, dating the hottest girl, playing the NHL, fighter, ma all this stuff. Dude, I choose to live here with my mom in a small sleepy town in Canada. I don't do anything but stretch and move my body and talk to people about this. And that's what's manifested through the next arena. Just I I didn't even choose it. It just happened. It's It's I don't have to create this, so look what's being created just by nature it coming through me. A place where I would have needed when I retired the exact place, integration, locker room, community, and training program to turn my mind from looking all outside to back within myself to find out there's no zone to chase. It's called living from the zone, our training program. Not trying to get the zone, living from the zone, because that zone. What do we love in sports, right? You melt into the moment. my best game. It's like I wasn't even there. Or what? You're you're you're you're eating the best food, or you hit a big gig at your job. I just it was the best feeling. And then the feeling comes that you're back searching for something again. No, this feeling has always been within you. It's just revealed when you get what your mind wants, and what happens? Your mind stops seeking. It's not the heroine, it's not the porn, it's not the food, it's not the job, it's not the career. That's making you happy. When you get it, your mind goes, And then salt water. I need more, I need more. What we're seeking is the cessation, the end of seeking. Not the thing. All we have to do is turn in and face ourselves. And it is so hard, like you said, pulling out that route. There's so much under there. It takes time, and that's why you need a community to do it with, to reflect back to you when you get hung up, when you get stuck, to keep going when it's hard. And we just launched it last night with the most beautiful. open door live webinar call. It was just every call I get off. I I cry on almost every call. I get off every call. Like I'm I'm lighting up. Like it's It's like when I scored my second NHL goal and I had the peak moment of my life, every cell in my body erupted. It was this goal that I had earned, and I everything, my dad, everything, it just I exploded, I disappeared. And then I spent the next five years chasing that feeling and trying to get it back. I can now experience that sitting here on my bed in silence, doing nothing. Because it's always been here. And it's the most fucking beautiful thing. And nobody knows, man. I didn't know. how angry I was at first when I was driving away from that temple. I was like, what the f why didn't I know this? Why didn't I know there were people like this that knew this? And now if you look, there's there's been books written 5,000 years ago that are telling us this. But we have all our conditioning and all this society of food and get this and get this, and it's you gotta come back to yourself and you can live a life that we all long for. Utter peace every moment, no matter what. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. you and I, Curtis, we come from two different worlds. We come from two different countries. We come from two different life backgrounds. Two different life experiences. I I know the best thing I was blessed with growing up was I had two parents that loved me. They did the best that they could. And I was blessed to have them both there at all of my major events. They were there at my wedding. They were there when my children were born. I've had that. You got robbed of that opportunity at such a young age. And those demons haunted you. And then thankfully for you and for the community and for the world in general, because now you having that platform, which is what I hope to achieve with this It's just letting people know hey, you are valued here on earth. You are valued as part of this community, as part of this tribe. And I want to hear those stories of those people who they had mentors, they lost mentors, they'd never had mentors. And you said something about the conversation with your brother about a mentor doesn't have to be loud, and it doesn't. It doesn't have to be someone like a coach or you know, an agent or a f fellow player saying, hey man, let me show you how to do this the right way. It's the dude next to you, or it's the kid brother, or it's The neighbor that they see you with all those lyers stripped away. And that when they're saying, Hey Curtis, you're not on the right road right now, your ego's driving you, they say it because they love you and not because they're trying to get anything out of you. And that's what I hope people get from the mentor sessions Anything else you want to leave us with? Kurtis Gabriel: Yeah, I do. Something you said there I can connect two things of you're saying I I and from the from the human in this body point of view, I got robbed of having that father and the demons that came from it, but That is what freed me. That suffering and those demons. When I looked at them and hugged them, they ceased to have ever existed. And that fear that they did, that false evidence appearing real, I like to call fear an acronym, it's just not real. And it's a lack of understanding. If we are going through any suffering, pain is real. Pain is a physical thing that you can change your perspective on big time, but suffering, it's pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. And You wouldn't believe how how free you can live, man. just keep looking. The only thing that matters is you stay in the fight and what you said about your valued on this earth, my gosh, if only people knew. You were born having already passed the test, having already won the lottery. You are a miracle yourself. You have always been good enough. You can't not be good enough. It's physically, it's impossible to not be good enough. And once you start to feel that the suffering in your life's gotten strong enough that you're ready to make a change, ooh. That's why I call it like Robotessin or Buckley's. It's the medicine that tastes awful, but it works. That's your suffering. So as a mentor, if you see someone suffering and you've been through what they've been through and you want to help them, great. If they're receptive, great. But we know as mentors, you cannot help someone unless they want help. BigMike Coyle: One hundred percent. And Kurtis Gabriel: And those demons that they are going through that you can't help them with are their gift. So do not torture yourself over, God, I wish I could help the person. They're not. That's exactly what they need to go through because it's already what you went through, and it's the only reason you're here. BigMike Coyle: I love to share. being the person that can sit in the shit with someone and how important it is to have those people in our lives. But I remember a story. It's a I got it from a TV show, but it hit me when I heard it and I love to share it. this actor in his role as this character tells a story that a man was in a hole and a priest walks by and he's like, you know, priest, father, father, help me, I'm in this hole. And the father wrote down a couple prayers and sent it down to him and said, God be with you, my son, and walked away. And then a doctor came by and he goes, Doctor, doctor, I'm in this hole. And the doctor throws down a couple prescriptions, like you said, you know, Fig Pharma. And threw it down in the hole and said, you know, good luck. These will help you. Well then a friend walked by and he said, Hey, I'm I'm buddy, I'm stuck down in this hole and the buddy gets down in the hole with him. And he's like, You moron, now we're both in the hole. And the friend can say the friend says to him, he goes, I've been here before. And I'm not gonna let you sit here alone. So I'd love to wrap it up on that point, Curtis. Just one thing I like to end with, besides Mr. Asinger, if there's a particular mentor in your life that you think deserves a shout out that you want to give a thanks to, please feel free to do so. Kurtis Gabriel: Absolutely. Thank you so much, brother. Appreciate it. And yeah, Michael I. Singer's been that a far kind of person, but through him, I found my in-person person. And that is my best friend, Ben Myers, who I co-founded this coursing community with. Just visited him for the first time in person a week and a half ago after getting him to know him online for two years when I went through the worst part of my life. He graduated from the same certified integrated mental health coaching program as me. I just got off a call with him today. My God. I love you, man. going to sit with him on his couch and looking at him and going, for the first time in my life, he's 39, I'm 33. I said, dude, not only are you a big brother to me, you have this father energy that I have never experienced. I look at you and I truly feel that like you walk the talk. You are truly. What a man should be. And it's funny how in that moment I almost felt this like, and I'm I'm not a crisis the only way, but I felt this heavenly energy, I felt this energy enter me talking to him with that. We're both like a crying, and it's we need these people, man. We need these people to sit and reflect to us. We don't do this thing alone. Find your people. Just swallow your heart. You'll find people, you'll find mentors. So, brother, thank you so much for having when you said the name of this podcast, I was like, Yeah, we're doing this thing. I loved your energy. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Yeah, dude. I I I look forward to building a long lasting relationship and friendship with you because I think you and I while our traumas may be different, they hit us around the same time and I think through your experiences, through my experiences and and like you said, like we've both been in that hole and we know those that those that have been in the hole can help us the most. So Curtis, thank you so much for joining us. Everybody, please check out the next arena. and and you know, feel free to check out Michael Singer's books and his podcasts and his programs and get from it and and also check out Curtis. You know, it's so funny the road he's taken and and the path that he being in an enforcer in the NHL and That was his escape from from the suffering he was doing and really finding that he was just masking it. He wasn't he wasn't escaping it. He was just hiding from it. So Curtis, thank you so much. I appreciate it. everybody, thanks for joining us on the mentor sessions. Please leave a comment, and and share this message and subscribe. I'd love to have you come back to hear more messages about the mentors in our lives.