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The Gift of a Tangible Legacy w/ Eileen Spinner · Something Extra

• 0:02
  Lisa Nichols: Chromosomes.
• 0:03
  Lisa Nichols: Little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions
• 0:08
  Lisa Nichols: that tell us who we are at birth.
• 0:10
  Lisa Nichols: Most people are born with forty six chromosomes, but each year in the United
• 0:14
  Lisa Nichols: States, about six thousand people are born with an extra chromosome, making them a
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  Lisa Nichols: person with Down syndrome.
• 0:20
  Lisa Nichols: If you've ever encountered someone with Down syndrome, you know that they are some
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  Lisa Nichols: of the kindest, most joyful people you will ever meet.
• 0:27
  Lisa Nichols: They truly have something extra.
• 0:30
  Lisa Nichols: My name is Lisa Nichols, and for thirty years, I have been both the
• 0:34
  Lisa Nichols: CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ali.
• 0:38
  Lisa Nichols: Ali has something extra in every sense of the word.
• 0:41
  Lisa Nichols: I have been blessed to be by her side as she impacts everyone she
• 0:45
  Lisa Nichols: meets.
• 0:46
  Lisa Nichols: Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have
• 0:50
  Lisa Nichols: witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the
• 0:54
  Lisa Nichols: world.
• 0:55
  Lisa Nichols: While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that
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  Lisa Nichols: defines who you are.
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  Lisa Nichols: Join me as I explore the something extra in leaders from all walks of
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  Lisa Nichols: Before we get started, I'm excited to share that my book Something Extra is
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  Lisa Nichols: now available.
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  Lisa Nichols: It is rooted in the remarkable spirit of our daughter, Ally, and the heartfelt
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  Lisa Nichols: conversations we've had on the podcast.
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  Lisa Nichols: You'll find wisdom and practical tools to ignite the leader within you and
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• 1:44
  Lisa Nichols: I'm excited to have Eileen Spinner on the show today.
• 1:47
  Lisa Nichols: Eileen is a licensed professional counselor, author, and public speaker.
• 1:52
  Lisa Nichols: Well, Eileen Spinner, welcome to the something extra podcast.
• 1:56
  Lisa Nichols: I'm so excited today to have you on the show.
• 2:00
  Lisa Nichols: Thank you so much for making the time.
• 2:01
  Lisa Nichols: When you and I met, I said, oh my goodness, Eileen.
• 2:04
  Lisa Nichols: You've got to come on to the something extra podcast because I love what
• 2:07
  Lisa Nichols: you do, and we're gonna get into that.
• 2:09
  Lisa Nichols: So thank you so much for making the time.
• 2:11
  Eileen Spinner: Oh, gosh.
• 2:12
  Eileen Spinner: Thank you.
• 2:12
  Eileen Spinner: It's an honor.
• 2:14
  Lisa Nichols: Well and I always tell our listeners this, you know, because they always wanna
• 2:18
  Lisa Nichols: know, how do you get connected to your guest?
• 2:20
  Lisa Nichols: And we have to give a shout out to our mutual, beautiful,
• 2:24
  Lisa Nichols: amazing, incredible friend, Becky Feldman.
• 2:29
  Lisa Nichols: Yay, Becky.
• 2:30
  Eileen Spinner: Amazing.
• 2:31
  Eileen Spinner: Yes.
• 2:31
  Eileen Spinner: We love you, girl.
• 2:33
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 2:34
  Lisa Nichols: She's like, oh my gosh, Lisa.
• 2:36
  Lisa Nichols: You've got to meet, you know, Eileen, and we'll talk about it because she
• 2:39
  Lisa Nichols: knows that you know, she knew that I had the podcast.
• 2:42
  Lisa Nichols: And then, also, like, your son, and we'll talk about Austin, your son
• 2:46
  Lisa Nichols: that's a sophomore that's a really good piano player.
• 2:48
  Lisa Nichols: And she knew that sometimes we hire, you know, and she goes, you might
• 2:52
  Lisa Nichols: wanna hire him sometime for some of your events.
• 2:54
  Lisa Nichols: So we'll we'll talk more about that.
• 2:58
  Lisa Nichols: But I know he's incredibly talented.
• 3:00
  Lisa Nichols: But, you know, Eileen, you're a licensed professional
• 3:05
  Lisa Nichols: counselor, author, public speaker, and you worked for the
• 3:09
  Lisa Nichols: BJC hospice for twenty years leading their,
• 3:14
  Lisa Nichols: hospice program.
• 3:15
  Lisa Nichols: And, this is what was so
• 3:19
  Lisa Nichols: thrilling to me is that you capture people's stories.
• 3:22
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 3:23
  Lisa Nichols: So and we're gonna talk a lot about that.
• 3:25
  Lisa Nichols: But, you know, let me take you take us back.
• 3:28
  Lisa Nichols: So I know that you're a native Texan.
• 3:31
  Lisa Nichols: So you even said your patients were saying, hey.
• 3:34
  Lisa Nichols: We know that you're from Texas, so you don't have to come out in
• 3:38
  Lisa Nichols: the snowstorm that we're having, but Texas got it too.
• 3:41
  Eileen Spinner: They did.
• 3:41
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 3:41
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 3:42
  Lisa Nichols: Which is so unusual.
• 3:43
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 3:45
  Lisa Nichols: But when did you first sense that walking with people at the end of
• 3:49
  Lisa Nichols: life was really part of your calling?
• 3:52
  Eileen Spinner: Oh, gosh.
• 3:53
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 3:53
  Eileen Spinner: So it might sound hard to believe, but when I was working on my
• 3:56
  Eileen Spinner: master's in counseling at Saint Louis University back in two thousand
• 4:00
  Eileen Spinner: five, which seems so long ago now, I was trying to figure out what
• 4:04
  Eileen Spinner: kind of counselor I wanted to be.
• 4:05
  Eileen Spinner: And I always thought maybe, like, pastoral counselor, something with spirituality.
• 4:09
  Eileen Spinner: And I literally read a book, by Ira Byock called
• 4:13
  Eileen Spinner: Dying Well, and it was about hospice and end of life care and this
• 4:17
  Eileen Spinner: interdisciplinary team that takes care of not only the patient but the family.
• 4:21
  Eileen Spinner: And it was just like this lightning bolt.
• 4:24
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 4:25
  Eileen Spinner: It was like a god wink.
• 4:26
  Eileen Spinner: God was just like, this is this is what you're supposed to do.
• 4:30
  Eileen Spinner: And all the pieces fell in place from there.
• 4:32
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 4:32
  Eileen Spinner: There was just nothing more spiritual than end of life care.
• 4:35
  Eileen Spinner: And I got an internship at BJC, and here I am literally
• 4:39
  Eileen Spinner: twenty years later.
• 4:41
  Lisa Nichols: Oh my goodness.
• 4:43
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, that's so beautiful though.
• 4:46
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 4:46
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 4:47
  Lisa Nichols: Because sometimes people search their whole life Absolutely.
• 4:50
  Lisa Nichols: For that purpose and calling.
• 4:52
  Eileen Spinner: Yes.
• 4:52
  Eileen Spinner: I feel I feel very blessed to be living my calling.
• 4:56
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 4:56
  Eileen Spinner: And This is your calling.
• 4:58
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 4:58
  Eileen Spinner: Really living it.
• 5:01
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 5:01
  Lisa Nichols: So beautiful.
• 5:02
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I love that because, you know, you said you might do pastoral care
• 5:06
  Lisa Nichols: or, you know, counseling, that sort of thing, because I know that you have
• 5:09
  Lisa Nichols: a theology degree Yeah.
• 5:11
  Lisa Nichols: From University of Dallas.
• 5:12
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 5:13
  Eileen Spinner: Yes.
• 5:13
  Eileen Spinner: Yes.
• 5:14
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 5:14
  Eileen Spinner: So I yes.
• 5:16
  Eileen Spinner: I grew up in Dallas.
• 5:17
  Eileen Spinner: My I have children brothers.
• 5:19
  Eileen Spinner: My parents brought me up in the Catholic faith.
• 5:21
  Eileen Spinner: I actually I don't know if this was intentional or not, but I went
• 5:23
  Eileen Spinner: to Catholic school from, like, kindergarten all the way through my masters.
• 5:27
  Eileen Spinner: And, you know, just the values that my parents instilled in me from a
• 5:31
  Eileen Spinner: young age.
• 5:32
  Eileen Spinner: Even today, my parents are eighty one, eighty four.
• 5:34
  Eileen Spinner: I'm very blessed that they're still alive.
• 5:36
  Eileen Spinner: You know, they always just taught us to lean on our faith,
• 5:40
  Eileen Spinner: family.
• 5:42
  Eileen Spinner: They were both the type of people that really served others.
• 5:45
  Eileen Spinner: My dad was a air force reserves colonel, psychologist,
• 5:50
  Eileen Spinner: a school psychologist.
• 5:51
  Eileen Spinner: My mom was a nurse and then a stay at home mom, and she
• 5:54
  Eileen Spinner: actually ran a food pantry, a not for profit for forty probably
• 5:58
  Eileen Spinner: forty plus years.
• 5:59
  Eileen Spinner: And so, you know, I grew up volunteering.
• 6:01
  Eileen Spinner: I grew up being in the church at the food pantry.
• 6:04
  Eileen Spinner: I joke that I've been volunteering at that food pantry since I was born,
• 6:07
  Eileen Spinner: which I really was.
• 6:09
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 6:09
  Eileen Spinner: But I think, you know, all of that kind of led
• 6:13
  Eileen Spinner: me down a certain path.
• 6:14
  Eileen Spinner: And then when I got into college, I really was fascinated with theology,
• 6:19
  Eileen Spinner: all different religions and learning about them.
• 6:21
  Eileen Spinner: And I thought maybe I'll be a theology teacher, you know?
• 6:24
  Eileen Spinner: And I found that a lot of my education courses were psychology.
• 6:28
  Eileen Spinner: And so, again, it was like God kinda wind in that path, and
• 6:33
  Eileen Spinner: I ended up kinda switching into more of a counseling mode.
• 6:37
  Eileen Spinner: So I did my undergrad in theology and then, did my master's in
• 6:41
  Eileen Spinner: in counseling.
• 6:42
  Lisa Nichols: But, boy, I mean, talking about preparing you, right, for what you're doing
• 6:46
  Lisa Nichols: today because I'm sure you lean on that lean on that even.
• 6:50
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 6:50
  Eileen Spinner: And even, you know, those volunteering with people of all backgrounds,
• 6:54
  Eileen Spinner: ages, you know, a lot of older ladies and men from different churches.
• 6:58
  Eileen Spinner: You know, I just was so comfortable with different people.
• 7:02
  Eileen Spinner: And so it made sense, when I look back that, you know, I was
• 7:05
  Eileen Spinner: like, okay.
• 7:06
  Eileen Spinner: I can do this.
• 7:07
  Eileen Spinner: I can work with people of all different backgrounds and ages
• 7:11
  Eileen Spinner: and, you know, help them in whatever part of life they're in.
• 7:15
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 7:15
  Lisa Nichols: That is I love that.
• 7:16
  Lisa Nichols: That is just so beautiful.
• 7:20
  Lisa Nichols: Well, we was there a moment, like because then you started doing
• 7:24
  Lisa Nichols: that.
• 7:24
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 7:24
  Lisa Nichols: And you interned for BJC and then you ended up staying there.
• 7:27
  Lisa Nichols: Was there a moment when you realized that this is holy ground?
• 7:30
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, the work that you are doing, Eileen, is really sacred work, I
• 7:34
  Lisa Nichols: believe, you know, and so meaningful, not only to
• 7:38
  Lisa Nichols: the person,
• 7:40
  Lisa Nichols: that's at end of life, but I think maybe even more importantly to the
• 7:44
  Lisa Nichols: people that are left behind.
• 7:46
  Eileen Spinner: Yes.
• 7:46
  Eileen Spinner: Oh, so true.
• 7:49
  Eileen Spinner: Gosh.
• 7:49
  Eileen Spinner: When did I feel like I was on holy ground?
• 7:51
  Eileen Spinner: I think immediately.
• 7:54
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 7:55
  Eileen Spinner: I people describe being and if, you know, if you've had losses of your
• 7:59
  Eileen Spinner: own, it's kinda like this they've described it as like that's this thin veil,
• 8:02
  Eileen Spinner: right, between life and death.
• 8:03
  Eileen Spinner: And so being in that space, it's like holding a newborn.
• 8:07
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 8:07
  Eileen Spinner: Like, you appreciate this, fragility of life and
• 8:12
  Eileen Spinner: being you know, seeing someone's soul and just the beauty of, you know,
• 8:16
  Eileen Spinner: birth and death.
• 8:17
  Eileen Spinner: And so I think I immediately felt very humbled
• 8:21
  Eileen Spinner: to sit with dying people.
• 8:24
  Eileen Spinner: And then supporting their family members, you know, I realized really quickly
• 8:29
  Eileen Spinner: I just needed to be present.
• 8:30
  Eileen Spinner: I just needed to be there with them.
• 8:32
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 8:32
  Eileen Spinner: I think a lot of times when we have someone in our own life
• 8:35
  Eileen Spinner: that's, sick or dying or,
• 8:38
  Eileen Spinner: they're the person supporting that person, we don't know what to do.
• 8:42
  Eileen Spinner: But really Right.
• 8:43
  Eileen Spinner: Show up.
• 8:43
  Eileen Spinner: You just have to be there.
• 8:45
  Eileen Spinner: There's a really great grief author and speaker named Alan Wolfell, and he
• 8:49
  Eileen Spinner: is known for coining kind of the word companioning.
• 8:52
  Eileen Spinner: And that's what we're doing.
• 8:53
  Eileen Spinner: We're companioning.
• 8:54
  Eileen Spinner: We're just being present.
• 8:56
  Eileen Spinner: I think of one lady, that I worked with in bereavement on the
• 9:00
  Eileen Spinner: grief side.
• 9:01
  Eileen Spinner: And I remember her saying one time, you know, I don't know what you
• 9:04
  Eileen Spinner: did, but I feel so much better.
• 9:05
  Eileen Spinner: And I've had people say that and I always tell them I didn't do
• 9:08
  Eileen Spinner: anything.
• 9:09
  Eileen Spinner: You did I just stood next to you and walked alongside you.
• 9:13
  Eileen Spinner: You did the work.
• 9:14
  Eileen Spinner: You worked through your grief.
• 9:15
  Eileen Spinner: And so we we went with you.
• 9:18
  Eileen Spinner: I wish the whole medical world worked the way hospice does because you really
• 9:21
  Eileen Spinner: like you said, you're helping the patient and their family.
• 9:25
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 9:26
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 9:26
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 9:28
  Lisa Nichols: Well,
• 9:30
  Lisa Nichols: you know, so let's talk about what you do in particular.
• 9:34
  Lisa Nichols: You help people tell their stories.
• 9:36
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 9:37
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 9:38
  Lisa Nichols: And journal, and it's just it's so you you put together
• 9:42
  Lisa Nichols: a book, basically, right, of their of their stories.
• 9:46
  Lisa Nichols: And and, obviously, you know, you kinda wanna start the
• 9:50
  Lisa Nichols: process while the person is still coherent too.
• 9:54
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 9:54
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 9:54
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 9:55
  Lisa Nichols: But why do you why do you think the stories matter so much,
• 9:59
  Lisa Nichols: especially then at the end of life?
• 10:02
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 10:02
  Eileen Spinner: I think, it was funny.
• 10:04
  Eileen Spinner: I just was reading a quote the other day that, it was just kind
• 10:07
  Eileen Spinner: of going through, Facebook and John O'Leary, who we all in Saint Louis
• 10:11
  Eileen Spinner: know and adore.
• 10:13
  Eileen Spinner: And love.
• 10:14
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 10:14
  Eileen Spinner: He had written about how, our stories,
• 10:18
  Eileen Spinner: you know, are part of our life, but it's not what defines
• 10:23
  Eileen Spinner: us.
• 10:23
  Eileen Spinner: It's like what we do next with what's happened.
• 10:26
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 10:26
  Eileen Spinner: And I think giving people an opportunity to tell their story
• 10:31
  Eileen Spinner: is is such a gift because then they get to say this is how
• 10:35
  Eileen Spinner: I wanna be remembered or this is what I want you to know about
• 10:38
  Eileen Spinner: me.
• 10:39
  Eileen Spinner: I always tell patients and families when I'm doing this work or when my
• 10:43
  Eileen Spinner: volunteers are doing this work that we're trying to capture your essence, You
• 10:47
  Eileen Spinner: know?
• 10:47
  Eileen Spinner: And, there's this concept of, like, two deaths.
• 10:51
  Eileen Spinner: We have our physical death when our heart stops and our actual death when
• 10:55
  Eileen Spinner: people stop talking about us.
• 10:57
  Eileen Spinner: And so to be able to have that opportunity to say, this is what
• 11:01
  Eileen Spinner: I want to be remembered as, That's such a gift to the patient because
• 11:04
  Eileen Spinner: then they feel like, okay, I might die, but now I can help my
• 11:09
  Eileen Spinner: family after my death.
• 11:11
  Eileen Spinner: And it helps the family because then they're getting something tangible that they can
• 11:14
  Eileen Spinner: hold on to.
• 11:15
  Eileen Spinner: And, you know, whether it's a, you know, a bear made out of clothing
• 11:19
  Eileen Spinner: or a book or a letter or just a quote, whatever it is, they
• 11:23
  Eileen Spinner: might read that ten, twenty, fifty years from now and say, okay, I feel
• 11:27
  Eileen Spinner: my mom or I feel my husband or my daughter, you know, and that's
• 11:30
  Eileen Spinner: really special.
• 11:31
  Eileen Spinner: It's it's just such an important thing.
• 11:34
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 11:35
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 11:36
  Lisa Nichols: I think I had told you when we met, my mom passed away in
• 11:39
  Lisa Nichols: twenty fourteen, and it really kind of there
• 11:43
  Lisa Nichols: were probably signs, but she really kinda was passing off the signs
• 11:47
  Lisa Nichols: as arthritis or something.
• 11:49
  Lisa Nichols: And Yeah.
• 11:50
  Lisa Nichols: So she went into the hospital in June and passed in August.
• 11:53
  Lisa Nichols: So I pretty much, like, stayed at her bedside, you know, in Kentucky
• 11:58
  Lisa Nichols: for that time and not really knowing.
• 12:01
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, not not even have met you at that time, but, you know,
• 12:05
  Lisa Nichols: what was so therapeutic to me is just writing.
• 12:07
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 12:08
  Lisa Nichols: And at the time, we had, our grandson was eighteen months old.
• 12:12
  Lisa Nichols: And I just remember the thing that made me so sad
• 12:16
  Lisa Nichols: was that Sawyer was not going to know my mom.
• 12:19
  Lisa Nichols: Like, I knew his mom and, like, his mom knew his my mom.
• 12:22
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 12:23
  Lisa Nichols: And it was just it was very therapeutic for me just writing, you know,
• 12:27
  Lisa Nichols: and I would ask my dad stories.
• 12:29
  Lisa Nichols: And then, you know, I would talk to my mom and ask her stories.
• 12:32
  Lisa Nichols: And then her her sisters that would come in, I would just Yeah.
• 12:36
  Lisa Nichols: Gathering.
• 12:36
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 12:37
  Eileen Spinner: Did it naturally.
• 12:38
  Eileen Spinner: I did it as a volunteer.
• 12:40
  Eileen Spinner: No.
• 12:43
  Lisa Nichols: And you know, and I found out stuff about my mom literally that I
• 12:47
  Lisa Nichols: had never known.
• 12:48
  Eileen Spinner: And you know, that happens so often.
• 12:51
  Eileen Spinner: That happens so often.
• 12:52
  Eileen Spinner: I I can't tell.
• 12:53
  Eileen Spinner: Even with my own family, I remember I was creating some new tools and
• 12:57
  Eileen Spinner: one of the tools was like a list of favorite things.
• 12:59
  Eileen Spinner: And I was like, you know, I don't even know this about my own
• 13:01
  Eileen Spinner: parents, so I made my parents do it.
• 13:03
  Eileen Spinner: I was like, hey, if I'm needing this program, I gotta see if this
• 13:05
  Eileen Spinner: works.
• 13:06
  Eileen Spinner: And so I made them do it.
• 13:07
  Eileen Spinner: And my mom, you know, she's not as super athletic.
• 13:12
  Eileen Spinner: Like, she doesn't work out kind of and she was saying my favorite sport
• 13:15
  Eileen Spinner: was skiing.
• 13:16
  Eileen Spinner: I'm like, mom, we grew up in Texas.
• 13:17
  Eileen Spinner: Like, what are you talking about?
• 13:19
  Eileen Spinner: She's like, well, when I was in nursing school in Boston or Boston, in
• 13:23
  Eileen Spinner: Denver, I just absolutely love skiing, and it just
• 13:27
  Eileen Spinner: brought out all these stories.
• 13:28
  Lisa Nichols: Lord, you're right.
• 13:30
  Lisa Nichols: Yay.
• 13:30
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 13:31
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I remember my my dad telling me that my dad was a marine,
• 13:35
  Lisa Nichols: and when they came back from the service, he bought this little red sports
• 13:38
  Lisa Nichols: car.
• 13:39
  Lisa Nichols: Now my mom was eighty one when she passed away and never got a
• 13:43
  Lisa Nichols: speeding ticket in her whole entire life, Eileen.
• 13:46
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, she my mom was a rule follower.
• 13:48
  Lisa Nichols: You know, she would keep my my dad on his own business.
• 13:50
  Lisa Nichols: She kept his books.
• 13:51
  Lisa Nichols: And if she was a nickel off, my mom would find it.
• 13:54
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, she just, like, she was just played by the rules.
• 13:57
  Lisa Nichols: But what I found out from even her sisters, it's like they would, like,
• 14:01
  Lisa Nichols: see this flash of red going down the road, and it was my mom
• 14:05
  Lisa Nichols: in this little red sports car.
• 14:07
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm like, you've got to be kidding.
• 14:08
  Lisa Nichols: My mom has never had a speeding ticket.
• 14:10
  Eileen Spinner: So I think your mom and my mom are sisters because my mom has
• 14:14
  Eileen Spinner: never had a ticket either.
• 14:15
  Eileen Spinner: Knock on wood.
• 14:16
  Eileen Spinner: And she was like a
• 14:17
  Lisa Nichols: little speed demon.
• 14:19
  Lisa Nichols: That is so funny.
• 14:21
  Lisa Nichols: Oh my gosh.
• 14:23
  Lisa Nichols: So neat.
• 14:23
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
• 14:25
  Lisa Nichols: Wait.
• 14:26
  Lisa Nichols: Are there themes that show up time and time and time again with people
• 14:30
  Lisa Nichols: when you're pulling out their stories, Eileen?
• 14:33
  Lisa Nichols: Regardless of background, are there things that show up,
• 14:36
  Eileen Spinner: that are kinda common with everyone?
• 14:39
  Eileen Spinner: Right.
• 14:39
  Eileen Spinner: You know, I think, you know, when you're at towards the end of life,
• 14:43
  Eileen Spinner: things sometimes for the patient like you're saying, for the family, it's
• 14:47
  Eileen Spinner: hard.
• 14:48
  Eileen Spinner: They're losing their loved one.
• 14:49
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 14:49
  Eileen Spinner: And no one wants their loved one to die.
• 14:51
  Eileen Spinner: But Yes.
• 14:52
  Eileen Spinner: I think for the patients, a lot of times, it's just, honestly,
• 14:56
  Eileen Spinner: love.
• 14:57
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 14:57
  Eileen Spinner: Like, they just want to love everyone they love.
• 15:00
  Eileen Spinner: They want to be loved.
• 15:01
  Eileen Spinner: They wanna be remembered for the love they gave.
• 15:04
  Eileen Spinner: There's always a lot of gratitude.
• 15:06
  Eileen Spinner: You know, I think, I think years ago before I really knew about hospice
• 15:10
  Eileen Spinner: when I was very young, I thought, oh, you know, if I died, I
• 15:12
  Eileen Spinner: hope it's really quick and there's no pain and, you know, you don't but
• 15:15
  Eileen Spinner: then when I learned about hospice, I was like, gosh.
• 15:18
  Eileen Spinner: What a gift, right, to know, to have time to say, okay.
• 15:22
  Eileen Spinner: This is how I'm gonna use today, or this is how I'm gonna use
• 15:25
  Eileen Spinner: this week.
• 15:25
  Eileen Spinner: And so I do see just that simplicity of, like, love and
• 15:29
  Eileen Spinner: gratitude and family and just the simple joys.
• 15:33
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 15:33
  Eileen Spinner: And I see that so many times with families.
• 15:37
  Eileen Spinner: They don't you know, they may have traveled the world, but they're not worried
• 15:40
  Eileen Spinner: about necessarily talking about all of it.
• 15:42
  Eileen Spinner: They just Yeah.
• 15:43
  Eileen Spinner: They're just happy to to be snuggling on the couch with their grandkids or
• 15:47
  Eileen Spinner: with their daughter or whoever.
• 15:48
  Eileen Spinner: So yeah.
• 15:49
  Lisa Nichols: Oftentimes, it's joy.
• 15:51
  Lisa Nichols: It really probably brings into, you know, full focus the
• 15:55
  Lisa Nichols: things that really matter most.
• 15:56
  Eileen Spinner: Absolutely.
• 15:57
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 15:57
  Lisa Nichols: It's not about your accomplishments.
• 15:59
  Lisa Nichols: It's not about what you've done or you've achieved in life.
• 16:03
  Lisa Nichols: It's not about what's in your bank account.
• 16:04
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 16:05
  Lisa Nichols: It's about the people and Who you are.
• 16:07
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 16:08
  Lisa Nichols: And who you are.
• 16:10
  Lisa Nichols: So the Lumina life review program is
• 16:14
  Lisa Nichols: what it what it's called.
• 16:15
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 16:16
  Lisa Nichols: You know, once you created I I read this.
• 16:20
  Lisa Nichols: Once you created a book that was, I think, one of the largest memory
• 16:23
  Lisa Nichols: books in history
• 16:25
  Lisa Nichols: in the program's history, and it was Irma.
• 16:28
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 16:28
  Lisa Nichols: Irma.
• 16:29
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 16:29
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 16:30
  Lisa Nichols: Tell me about that.
• 16:31
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, what you know, I mean, she just had so much to say
• 16:34
  Lisa Nichols: or
• 16:34
  Eileen Spinner: people are Well, you know, so she so just for people that don't know
• 16:38
  Eileen Spinner: about Lumina, so there's so many different hospice programs across Saint Louis
• 16:42
  Eileen Spinner: and across the country, but BJC is very blessed to have donors.
• 16:47
  Eileen Spinner: And Suzanne Doyle, who started the program almost twenty years ago, she was
• 16:51
  Eileen Spinner: really a visionary.
• 16:52
  Eileen Spinner: She started Lumina because she thought it comes from the word luminous light.
• 16:56
  Eileen Spinner: She's like, we need to shine a light on people.
• 16:58
  Eileen Spinner: We need people to share their life, and what's important to them.
• 17:02
  Eileen Spinner: And so the the Lumina program itself is really like life review
• 17:07
  Eileen Spinner: and legacy creation.
• 17:08
  Eileen Spinner: So sometimes you just do life review and and the patient may
• 17:12
  Eileen Spinner: pass and you don't get to make anything.
• 17:14
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 17:14
  Eileen Spinner: Sometimes you do get to make that legacy piece.
• 17:18
  Eileen Spinner: In Irma's case, you know, she, she had had a
• 17:22
  Eileen Spinner: we had done a whole story on her because it was really a a
• 17:24
  Eileen Spinner: miracle.
• 17:25
  Eileen Spinner: She actually wanted to be called miracle lady,
• 17:28
  Eileen Spinner: because she was.
• 17:30
  Eileen Spinner: She had had a traumatic brain injury coming home from volunteering, actually,
• 17:34
  Eileen Spinner: at Barnes Jewish Hospital.
• 17:35
  Eileen Spinner: She had volunteered for, BJ BJC for a long time, and it was
• 17:39
  Eileen Spinner: during ice and she slipped on her step.
• 17:42
  Eileen Spinner: And if the mailman hadn't randomly changed his,
• 17:47
  Eileen Spinner: route that day, he wouldn't have found her.
• 17:48
  Eileen Spinner: He actually was the one that found her.
• 17:50
  Eileen Spinner: They rushed her to the hospital.
• 17:51
  Eileen Spinner: She, ended up coming on to hospice.
• 17:53
  Eileen Spinner: They weren't sure if she would recover.
• 17:55
  Eileen Spinner: They said, you know, there's a very small chance after six months she might
• 17:58
  Eileen Spinner: get better.
• 17:59
  Eileen Spinner: And so during that six months, I met with her daughter almost weekly.
• 18:03
  Eileen Spinner: She'd have pictures of her mom, of her life, of everything
• 18:07
  Eileen Spinner: she'd gone through.
• 18:08
  Eileen Spinner: Irma would tell me stories, the daughter, sometimes even the son, other people would
• 18:12
  Eileen Spinner: join in and tell stories about her.
• 18:14
  Eileen Spinner: Her.
• 18:14
  Eileen Spinner: So we had this giant book growing about her and her life and her
• 18:17
  Eileen Spinner: family and her career and everything.
• 18:20
  Eileen Spinner: And then she started to get better, and she actually went off of hospice.
• 18:24
  Eileen Spinner: She's actually living independently again in her home.
• 18:27
  Eileen Spinner: It's amazing.
• 18:28
  Eileen Spinner: She's and and so, you know, that was a giant book.
• 18:32
  Eileen Spinner: We we real and it's beautiful because now she has this book, and I
• 18:35
  Eileen Spinner: told her we gotta add an epilogue one day, so she could add, you
• 18:38
  Eileen Spinner: know, the last couple years to it.
• 18:40
  Eileen Spinner: Sure.
• 18:41
  Eileen Spinner: But, you know, just amazing.
• 18:43
  Eileen Spinner: And I've and we've written quite a few giant books.
• 18:46
  Eileen Spinner: I'm grateful for my volunteers to make that possible because we
• 18:50
  Eileen Spinner: have a lot of patients that have amazing stories.
• 18:52
  Eileen Spinner: We've even had veterans that have turned their books into library
• 18:57
  Eileen Spinner: of congress, so it's really a part of permanent history, which is incredible.
• 19:01
  Eileen Spinner: Oh, man.
• 19:01
  Eileen Spinner: Stories and things like that.
• 19:03
  Eileen Spinner: Mhmm.
• 19:04
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 19:04
  Eileen Spinner: Lots of beautiful, huge books, even little things.
• 19:08
  Eileen Spinner: I've had visits where I just help them write a thank you to their
• 19:11
  Eileen Spinner: loved ones, and that's it.
• 19:13
  Eileen Spinner: And it's just as powerful.
• 19:15
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 19:17
  Lisa Nichols: Mm-mm.
• 19:17
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
• 19:22
  Lisa Nichols: Because I'm thinking as you're hearing these stories, I've often thought about pastors
• 19:27
  Lisa Nichols: and doctors.
• 19:28
  Lisa Nichols: Eileen, you know, you have your own stuff that you're carrying,
• 19:32
  Lisa Nichols: but you also are carrying like, if it was if if it's a case
• 19:36
  Lisa Nichols: of a pastor, they're carrying the burdens, if you will,
• 19:40
  Lisa Nichols: the burdens and the joys of their flock.
• 19:43
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 19:43
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 19:43
  Eileen Spinner: Sure.
• 19:45
  Lisa Nichols: And so you're hearing these stories.
• 19:46
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, how has that been for you?
• 19:49
  Lisa Nichols: Does it ever become overwhelming to you to be carrying all these
• 19:53
  Lisa Nichols: stories within you?
• 19:54
  Eileen Spinner: Sure.
• 19:55
  Eileen Spinner: So I think, you know, all counselors would say, yeah, you carry
• 19:59
  Eileen Spinner: things sometimes.
• 20:00
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 20:00
  Eileen Spinner: And, there are times where it's hard, of course, but, you know, our goal,
• 20:04
  Eileen Spinner: especially in hospice, is to go in there and just make it a little
• 20:08
  Eileen Spinner: easier, right, to walk with them.
• 20:09
  Eileen Spinner: I tell people if it's there was my husband or my kid
• 20:14
  Eileen Spinner: or my mom, I would need someone else to come in and do this.
• 20:17
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 20:17
  Eileen Spinner: I wouldn't be able to be the professional.
• 20:18
  Eileen Spinner: I need to be the wife or the mom or the daughter.
• 20:22
  Eileen Spinner: But even with my volunteers, you know, I always tell them we we all
• 20:26
  Eileen Spinner: have a a talent and a role, something that we can give these families.
• 20:29
  Eileen Spinner: And so that's our job is to go in there and help do that.
• 20:33
  Eileen Spinner: And so the job can get heavy.
• 20:35
  Eileen Spinner: When I when I was thinking about this, I was thinking of one situation
• 20:39
  Eileen Spinner: in particular.
• 20:40
  Eileen Spinner: I back in twenty twenty two is after COVID.
• 20:43
  Eileen Spinner: You know, the heaviness of COVID really, I think all of us.
• 20:46
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 20:47
  Eileen Spinner: And I remember driving to this young patient with young children, and I thought,
• 20:51
  Eileen Spinner: I don't know if I can do this.
• 20:52
  Eileen Spinner: And I just was like, oh, no.
• 20:54
  Eileen Spinner: I thought the thought that's, like, the end of my job.
• 20:57
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 20:58
  Eileen Spinner: And I thought, okay.
• 20:59
  Eileen Spinner: Buck up.
• 20:59
  Eileen Spinner: Go visit this lady.
• 21:00
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 21:00
  Eileen Spinner: She she needs you.
• 21:02
  Eileen Spinner: And at the time, we still were wearing our masks and everything.
• 21:05
  Eileen Spinner: And I was asking this mom, we were making books for her little girls,
• 21:09
  Eileen Spinner: and I asked her, what advice do you have for your daughters?
• 21:11
  Eileen Spinner: And I they were so young.
• 21:12
  Eileen Spinner: I thought she'd say be kind or loving.
• 21:14
  Eileen Spinner: Very simple, you know, for little kids.
• 21:17
  Eileen Spinner: She turned to me and said, be authentic.
• 21:20
  Eileen Spinner: And the reason that hit me so hard is that was my word that
• 21:24
  Eileen Spinner: year.
• 21:24
  Eileen Spinner: My word for that year was to be authentic.
• 21:27
  Eileen Spinner: And so of course I'm smiling under my mask.
• 21:30
  Eileen Spinner: And I was like, oh, what does that mean to you?
• 21:32
  Eileen Spinner: Why would you say that?
• 21:35
  Eileen Spinner: And she had no idea what that meant to me in the moment.
• 21:37
  Eileen Spinner: And she and her husband also joined in.
• 21:39
  Eileen Spinner: They said, you know, if you're not sharing your gifts, if you're not being
• 21:42
  Eileen Spinner: who God made you to be, then what is the point?
• 21:44
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 21:44
  Eileen Spinner: And I was like, okay, I get it.
• 21:47
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 21:48
  Eileen Spinner: Okay.
• 21:48
  Eileen Spinner: I'm having a hard day.
• 21:49
  Eileen Spinner: That's alright.
• 21:50
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 21:50
  Eileen Spinner: So Yeah.
• 21:51
  Eileen Spinner: So, yeah, it can get very heavy sometimes, but, you know, that's when you
• 21:55
  Eileen Spinner: lean on your, you know, your your your family, your friends.
• 21:59
  Eileen Spinner: I have the most amazing incredible team in hospice, and so we all lean
• 22:03
  Eileen Spinner: on each other.
• 22:03
  Eileen Spinner: We actually call each other, the geese.
• 22:05
  Eileen Spinner: And so you think of, like, a geese formation.
• 22:07
  Eileen Spinner: You take turns at the front, and you lean on each other, and you
• 22:10
  Eileen Spinner: help each other.
• 22:11
  Eileen Spinner: And so we we do that.
• 22:13
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 22:13
  Eileen Spinner: We we do that when we have those hard days.
• 22:15
  Eileen Spinner: And I remember leaving that leaving that house and and calling one of
• 22:19
  Eileen Spinner: them and being like, you're not gonna believe this.
• 22:21
  Eileen Spinner: She said my she said my word.
• 22:24
  Eileen Spinner: It was just like, okay.
• 22:25
  Eileen Spinner: God God wink again.
• 22:27
  Eileen Spinner: Like, I get it.
• 22:27
  Lisa Nichols: That's that's the message.
• 22:29
  Lisa Nichols: That's the message.
• 22:30
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 22:31
  Lisa Nichols: Oh.
• 22:32
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 22:32
  Lisa Nichols: Goodness.
• 22:33
  Lisa Nichols: Well,
• 22:35
  Lisa Nichols: yeah, I want you we're gonna need to take a quick break here in
• 22:38
  Lisa Nichols: a minute, but there are two two people,
• 22:42
  Lisa Nichols: that you had sent me a note about, Ruth and Jory.
• 22:46
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 22:47
  Lisa Nichols: And especially Jory because that touched my heart.
• 22:51
  Lisa Nichols: Jory had
• 22:51
  Eileen Spinner: I knew it would.
• 22:53
  Lisa Nichols: A little boy with Down syndrome.
• 22:55
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 22:55
  Lisa Nichols: So tell me a little bit about that story.
• 22:59
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 23:00
  Eileen Spinner: So, again, another patient that I thought, oh, I don't know if I can
• 23:03
  Eileen Spinner: do this.
• 23:03
  Eileen Spinner: We were actually, like, the same age.
• 23:05
  Eileen Spinner: Had kids or I had kids around the same age as her little boy
• 23:08
  Eileen Spinner: at the time.
• 23:09
  Eileen Spinner: And I remember asking my volunteers, you know, who would like to take on
• 23:12
  Eileen Spinner: this wonderful patient?
• 23:13
  Eileen Spinner: Nobody offered it.
• 23:15
  Eileen Spinner: So I was like, okay.
• 23:15
  Eileen Spinner: This must be mine, and I was so grateful she was mine.
• 23:19
  Eileen Spinner: She was very young.
• 23:21
  Eileen Spinner: She had paraganglioma, which is a very rare disease, and I promised
• 23:25
  Eileen Spinner: her I would always share her story.
• 23:26
  Eileen Spinner: I was part of her legacy.
• 23:29
  Eileen Spinner: And she actually got pregnant.
• 23:31
  Eileen Spinner: She couldn't she didn't even think she could get pregnant when she was under
• 23:35
  Eileen Spinner: treatment, and she did.
• 23:37
  Eileen Spinner: And she had a choice.
• 23:39
  Eileen Spinner: She could, you know, stop treatment or keep doing treatment.
• 23:43
  Eileen Spinner: If she kept doing treatment, she'd be able to keep the baby.
• 23:46
  Eileen Spinner: And so she stopped her treatment so that she could have him,
• 23:50
  Eileen Spinner: and she did.
• 23:51
  Eileen Spinner: And he's wonderful, sweet little thing, and he was born with Down syndrome.
• 23:56
  Eileen Spinner: And she was about a year old when we met.
• 23:59
  Eileen Spinner: And so when I met her, we made birthday cards for every birthday
• 24:03
  Eileen Spinner: up until twenty one.
• 24:04
  Eileen Spinner: We made, an a b c book.
• 24:07
  Eileen Spinner: So she wrote out, like, a is for this, b is for this, and
• 24:11
  Eileen Spinner: some of them were so beautiful.
• 24:12
  Eileen Spinner: She picked, like, q is for quote, and she did this doctor Seuss quote
• 24:15
  Eileen Spinner: about, how, you know, you are you, there's no one greater than
• 24:19
  Eileen Spinner: you.
• 24:20
  Eileen Spinner: So this sweet little quote.
• 24:21
  Eileen Spinner: And and so actually that and my volunteer who's an artist made
• 24:25
  Eileen Spinner: hand painted book for her from it, and it was just gorgeous.
• 24:29
  Eileen Spinner: And the volunteer actually went and actually made a canvas of that page because
• 24:32
  Eileen Spinner: she knew that she loved it so much.
• 24:35
  Eileen Spinner: We made oh, and one one, she picked z is for zebra, and she
• 24:39
  Eileen Spinner: said just like the zebra, you are unique.
• 24:42
  Eileen Spinner: And she picked that.
• 24:43
  Eileen Spinner: She said that zebra has that extra chromosome that makes him so special and
• 24:47
  Eileen Spinner: perfect.
• 24:47
  Eileen Spinner: And I just thought, what a mother.
• 24:49
  Eileen Spinner: And she care you know, so she was able to be there for him
• 24:53
  Eileen Spinner: through all these little gifts, you know.
• 24:55
  Eileen Spinner: And as she was on hospice, we helped her do so many things
• 24:59
  Eileen Spinner: around Saint Louis.
• 25:00
  Eileen Spinner: Volunteers were donating tickets to all sorts of stuff so she could make memories
• 25:04
  Eileen Spinner: as many days as she felt good.
• 25:05
  Eileen Spinner: It was so powerful.
• 25:07
  Eileen Spinner: So Oh,
• 25:08
  Lisa Nichols: now I'm crying.
• 25:10
  Lisa Nichols: She
• 25:11
  Eileen Spinner: yeah.
• 25:11
  Eileen Spinner: And her mom her mom even started volunteering for us after.
• 25:15
  Eileen Spinner: So I do hear from her sometimes.
• 25:16
  Eileen Spinner: And then if I'm doing a talk and I mentioned her, I always say,
• 25:19
  Eileen Spinner: hey, I'm carrying Jory with me, and she's still touching people's lives.
• 25:22
  Eileen Spinner: So I think that makes a difference for her to know that her daughter's
• 25:25
  Eileen Spinner: still making a difference.
• 25:27
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 25:28
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 25:29
  Lisa Nichols: Oh my goodness.
• 25:29
  Lisa Nichols: Well, Eileen, we have so much more to talk about, but we do need
• 25:32
  Lisa Nichols: to take a quick break, and we'll be right back with Eileen Spinner on
• 25:35
  Lisa Nichols: the Something Extra podcast.
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• 26:07
  Lisa Nichols: Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with my friend, Eileen Spinner.
• 26:12
  Lisa Nichols: So, Eileen, how has walking with people at the end of their life
• 26:17
  Lisa Nichols: shaped your faith?
• 26:20
  Eileen Spinner: I would say it has strengthened it amazingly.
• 26:24
  Eileen Spinner: I've really learned to kinda just trust in God more than I ever had
• 26:28
  Eileen Spinner: before.
• 26:29
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 26:29
  Eileen Spinner: Like, just lean on him.
• 26:30
  Eileen Spinner: Let him guide me.
• 26:32
  Eileen Spinner: I know I can't do it by myself.
• 26:34
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 26:35
  Eileen Spinner: And I think, doing this kind of work has kind of had a,
• 26:40
  Eileen Spinner: like, a sense of urgency to just be there for others.
• 26:43
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 26:43
  Eileen Spinner: Like, to be a light to others because if you're working with folks
• 26:48
  Eileen Spinner: who are dying every day, you realize, like, we don't know our day and
• 26:51
  Eileen Spinner: time.
• 26:51
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 26:52
  Eileen Spinner: And so, it really has strengthened my faith immensely.
• 26:58
  Eileen Spinner: There's a there's a quote from
• 27:01
  Eileen Spinner: pope Francis where he talks about, the saints and the
• 27:05
  Eileen Spinner: church, how they he kinda compares them to the stained glass windows
• 27:09
  Eileen Spinner: of a church and how the light shines through them differently.
• 27:14
  Eileen Spinner: And there's different colors, different hues, and I think all of us are like
• 27:17
  Eileen Spinner: that too.
• 27:17
  Eileen Spinner: And so he talks about each of us have our own light to share.
• 27:21
  Eileen Spinner: And if we don't do that, then what are we doing?
• 27:23
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 27:24
  Eileen Spinner: So I think that's really for me.
• 27:27
  Eileen Spinner: I I'm just like, okay.
• 27:28
  Eileen Spinner: I'm just gonna do what I can every day to share that light.
• 27:32
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 27:32
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, no.
• 27:33
  Lisa Nichols: That is so beautiful.
• 27:34
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 27:35
  Lisa Nichols: Well and then the other thing as you were talking, Eileen, I was thinking
• 27:37
  Lisa Nichols: about is you talked about none of us know the day or time.
• 27:41
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 27:42
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, it's appointed once for a man to be born and once for
• 27:45
  Lisa Nichols: a man to die, man or woman to die.
• 27:48
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm thinking when you were reminded of this
• 27:53
  Lisa Nichols: so often, it probably reminds you to live
• 27:58
  Lisa Nichols: more in the present.
• 27:59
  Eileen Spinner: Oh, yeah.
• 27:59
  Eileen Spinner: To make
• 28:00
  Lisa Nichols: sure that you are present where your feet are planted Yeah.
• 28:03
  Lisa Nichols: That day, right, with your family.
• 28:05
  Lisa Nichols: Because I just know, like, I feel like the world is so noisy and
• 28:09
  Lisa Nichols: can be so distracting.
• 28:10
  Lisa Nichols: And we know in our hearts what's what's important, but my goodness, how
• 28:14
  Lisa Nichols: many times do we get pulled by the world and what the world's telling
• 28:18
  Lisa Nichols: us we need to be doing or should be doing.
• 28:21
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 28:21
  Lisa Nichols: And, yeah.
• 28:22
  Eileen Spinner: And I think, you know, as moms, I think a lot of times we're
• 28:26
  Eileen Spinner: trying to do and be everything.
• 28:28
  Eileen Spinner: And and I I have to watch that.
• 28:30
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 28:30
  Eileen Spinner: I have to make sure I'm not too exhausted at the end of the
• 28:33
  Eileen Spinner: day that I am present to my kids.
• 28:36
  Eileen Spinner: I I just watched something recently where mom was talking about that.
• 28:39
  Eileen Spinner: You know, we we work and we're doing all sorts of different things that
• 28:41
  Eileen Spinner: fill us.
• 28:42
  Eileen Spinner: Like, we gotta make sure we don't empty that that out too much or
• 28:45
  Eileen Spinner: we're not there enough for our children.
• 28:47
  Eileen Spinner: And people used to tease me.
• 28:49
  Eileen Spinner: You know, we we used to go on a lot of different vacations.
• 28:52
  Eileen Spinner: We we still do.
• 28:53
  Eileen Spinner: I mean, our kids are a little bit older now, so they're busier.
• 28:55
  Eileen Spinner: But they're like, gosh, you guys are always doing stuff.
• 28:57
  Eileen Spinner: I'm like, well, you know, carpe diem.
• 29:00
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 29:01
  Lisa Nichols: We're always
• 29:02
  Eileen Spinner: we're always trying to do stuff.
• 29:04
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 29:05
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 29:06
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 29:09
  Lisa Nichols: You know, what what questions I mean, you've been doing this work for twenty
• 29:13
  Lisa Nichols: years.
• 29:13
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, what questions do people have about God, you know,
• 29:17
  Lisa Nichols: or meaning?
• 29:18
  Lisa Nichols: What what are some of the questions that they most often ask, Eileen?
• 29:22
  Lisa Nichols: Can you think of a few?
• 29:24
  Eileen Spinner: So, you know, I I often find that
• 29:28
  Eileen Spinner: and they may share it more with the chaplain, but I don't get as
• 29:32
  Eileen Spinner: many questions about God.
• 29:33
  Eileen Spinner: They might share just kinda more what they think is coming or or what
• 29:37
  Eileen Spinner: they hope is coming.
• 29:39
  Eileen Spinner: But I think there's I always have this
• 29:44
  Eileen Spinner: sense of peace that comes from folks when they're in that space,
• 29:49
  Eileen Spinner: where they know that this is coming, they've accepted it, and there's kind of
• 29:53
  Eileen Spinner: this peace and joy there.
• 29:56
  Eileen Spinner: Now the folks that are kinda struggling with what's next or, you know, where's
• 29:59
  Eileen Spinner: God in this, you know, I think that's where it's beautiful that we have
• 30:02
  Eileen Spinner: this interdisciplinary team to come in there and help them figure out what that
• 30:05
  Eileen Spinner: is.
• 30:06
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 30:06
  Eileen Spinner: And, the chaplains probably, you know, work with that more than I do
• 30:10
  Eileen Spinner: where they just kinda help them find a piece there.
• 30:14
  Eileen Spinner: Again, it kinda goes back to that.
• 30:15
  Eileen Spinner: Like, this is your story.
• 30:16
  Eileen Spinner: This is, you know, what you decide to share here.
• 30:19
  Eileen Spinner: I think of one lady I worked with who had a very hard, hard
• 30:22
  Eileen Spinner: life, and her, you know, ninety some odd year old
• 30:26
  Eileen Spinner: mother who was very abusive was still alive, you know, and she wanted to
• 30:30
  Eileen Spinner: share her story.
• 30:30
  Eileen Spinner: And her goal was to find peace and reconciliation
• 30:35
  Eileen Spinner: in that relationship.
• 30:36
  Eileen Spinner: And so she knew a lot of hard things, but then we had to
• 30:38
  Eileen Spinner: figure out what do we write that helps you achieve that goal.
• 30:42
  Eileen Spinner: And I she was like, this is the best therapy I've ever had.
• 30:45
  Eileen Spinner: Now it wasn't meant to be therapy, but it was because it was therapy
• 30:49
  Eileen Spinner: for her to find peace in all of that.
• 30:52
  Eileen Spinner: So, you know, everyone's unique in their religion and spiritual process,
• 30:56
  Eileen Spinner: but I think people kinda find that peace somehow.
• 31:00
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 31:01
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 31:01
  Lisa Nichols: That's beautiful.
• 31:03
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I wanna get into your books.
• 31:05
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 31:05
  Lisa Nichols: Because now you've written a couple of books.
• 31:06
  Lisa Nichols: You've got another one coming out.
• 31:08
  Lisa Nichols: Did it just come out?
• 31:10
  Lisa Nichols: Yay.
• 31:10
  Lisa Nichols: That is so awesome.
• 31:13
  Lisa Nichols: You know, and
• 31:14
  Eileen Spinner: I have your book here too.
• 31:16
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, look at you.
• 31:18
  Eileen Spinner: I'm almost I'm almost done with it.
• 31:19
  Eileen Spinner: It's really good.
• 31:20
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, thank you.
• 31:22
  Lisa Nichols: Thank you.
• 31:22
  Lisa Nichols: Thank you.
• 31:22
  Lisa Nichols: That makes me really happy.
• 31:26
  Lisa Nichols: But your books invite parents to share not just their beliefs, but their heart.
• 31:30
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 31:31
  Lisa Nichols: And, you know, what do you hope that the children,
• 31:35
  Lisa Nichols: you know, possibly,
• 31:38
  Lisa Nichols: siblings, the people that are left behind, what do you hope that they receive
• 31:41
  Lisa Nichols: when they read those words that are written there in those books?
• 31:46
  Eileen Spinner: Oh, gosh.
• 31:46
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 31:47
  Eileen Spinner: So, you know, I think about when families get together, you know, we all
• 31:50
  Eileen Spinner: tell stories.
• 31:51
  Eileen Spinner: And I don't know about your family, but I think a lot of families
• 31:53
  Eileen Spinner: tell the same stories a lot of times.
• 31:55
  Lisa Nichols: Over and over because they can't remember.
• 31:57
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 31:57
  Eileen Spinner: They're like, you know, the fish the fish gets bigger or, you know, it's
• 32:01
  Eileen Spinner: just it's so funny.
• 32:02
  Eileen Spinner: Or even like you said, you find out something new because someone tells the
• 32:05
  Eileen Spinner: story a little different or to a different person.
• 32:08
  Eileen Spinner: And kinda that's the beauty of Lumina is, like, myself and the volunteers will
• 32:11
  Eileen Spinner: come in there, and we're just these new ears, these new faces.
• 32:14
  Eileen Spinner: And so people just, like, light up and can't wait to tell you all
• 32:17
  Eileen Spinner: of them.
• 32:18
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 32:18
  Eileen Spinner: And so we write them down.
• 32:19
  Eileen Spinner: And so for the families that read that, you know, immediately or years
• 32:24
  Eileen Spinner: later, it's an like, an opportunity for them to connect
• 32:28
  Eileen Spinner: with that person.
• 32:29
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 32:29
  Eileen Spinner: Mhmm.
• 32:30
  Eileen Spinner: It gives them something tangible that they can hold on to
• 32:34
  Eileen Spinner: or even kind of open and feel their essence.
• 32:37
  Eileen Spinner: I think of a a mom who had a young daughter,
• 32:41
  Eileen Spinner: that that died years ago, and her daughter was so
• 32:45
  Eileen Spinner: artistic.
• 32:46
  Eileen Spinner: I mean, everything from, she would, like, paint menorahs.
• 32:50
  Eileen Spinner: She would, she had, like, pottery, all different
• 32:55
  Eileen Spinner: kinds of art, and it was all over her house.
• 32:57
  Eileen Spinner: And she's like, what do I do with this?
• 32:58
  Eileen Spinner: It's everywhere.
• 32:59
  Eileen Spinner: And I just I wanna, like, honor it.
• 33:02
  Eileen Spinner: And so one of my photography volunteers took pictures of everything.
• 33:07
  Eileen Spinner: And the mom gave her pictures of her daughter with some of the things,
• 33:10
  Eileen Spinner: and they made this giant coffee table book that had all of her
• 33:14
  Eileen Spinner: art in it.
• 33:14
  Eileen Spinner: And it was absolutely gorgeous.
• 33:17
  Eileen Spinner: And her mom said it so perfectly.
• 33:19
  Eileen Spinner: She said, when I open this, I can feel her.
• 33:22
  Eileen Spinner: And I was like, that's what it is.
• 33:24
  Eileen Spinner: That's what we wanna make, for people.
• 33:26
  Eileen Spinner: So sometimes, you know, people think I have to tell the whole story and
• 33:30
  Eileen Spinner: it's like, no, you just have to capture the essence of who you are.
• 33:34
  Eileen Spinner: And that that is what
• 33:35
  Lisa Nichols: we hope.
• 33:36
  Lisa Nichols: That's so cool.
• 33:36
  Lisa Nichols: That is so cool.
• 33:38
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you got your three books there.
• 33:40
  Lisa Nichols: It's mom, tell me why you're Catholic, and then you did one for the
• 33:45
  Lisa Nichols: dads.
• 33:45
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 33:46
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 33:46
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 33:48
  Lisa Nichols: Why do you think that it was important to create both of those?
• 33:51
  Eileen Spinner: So, sister Gianna, my coauthor, she and I actually
• 33:55
  Eileen Spinner: met when she was finishing her counseling degree.
• 33:58
  Eileen Spinner: And the idea really came when she started taking care of her own mom.
• 34:01
  Eileen Spinner: Her mom, became terminally ill while she was doing this work in
• 34:05
  Eileen Spinner: hospice.
• 34:06
  Eileen Spinner: And so she started using a lot of the Lumina training that she had
• 34:09
  Eileen Spinner: done to ask her mom questions.
• 34:11
  Eileen Spinner: And then that's when we started talking and we created the mom book.
• 34:16
  Eileen Spinner: And my mom has memory issues.
• 34:18
  Eileen Spinner: And so I was like, oh my gosh.
• 34:20
  Eileen Spinner: I need to do this with my own mom too.
• 34:22
  Eileen Spinner: But then after we did the mom book, we're like, you know what?
• 34:25
  Eileen Spinner: Dads need to do this as well.
• 34:28
  Eileen Spinner: You know, and I think oftentimes,
• 34:30
  Eileen Spinner: dads may not be as, you know, open to do it.
• 34:33
  Eileen Spinner: Moms might share more.
• 34:34
  Eileen Spinner: And so we both wanted to honor our dads.
• 34:38
  Eileen Spinner: Her dad had passed away a few years earlier than that.
• 34:41
  Eileen Spinner: But my dad's still he's a storyteller.
• 34:43
  Eileen Spinner: Let me tell you.
• 34:44
  Eileen Spinner: If you get him going, it's like, uh-oh.
• 34:47
  Eileen Spinner: So and even he was like, are you gonna have a dad version?
• 34:50
  Eileen Spinner: I was like, it's coming.
• 34:51
  Eileen Spinner: I promise.
• 34:53
  Eileen Spinner: Yes.
• 34:53
  Eileen Spinner: Because when we were doing question now my parents live in Texas.
• 34:56
  Eileen Spinner: And so when we were doing some questions when with my mom, my dad
• 34:59
  Eileen Spinner: would just answer as well, and it was so sweet.
• 35:02
  Eileen Spinner: So it was fun to do both mom and dad.
• 35:04
  Eileen Spinner: And I think for families, it's so beautiful to see different perspectives.
• 35:09
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 35:09
  Eileen Spinner: What what your dad might say versus what your mom might say.
• 35:13
  Eileen Spinner: A great example of that was, just recently, I asked my parents, you know,
• 35:16
  Eileen Spinner: what would you want your legacy to be?
• 35:18
  Eileen Spinner: And in my mind, I'm thinking all these amazing things they've done.
• 35:23
  Eileen Spinner: My mom said, I wanna be remembered in prayer.
• 35:28
  Eileen Spinner: That's all.
• 35:28
  Eileen Spinner: That's all she said.
• 35:29
  Eileen Spinner: And I was like, no, mom.
• 35:30
  Eileen Spinner: Like, how do you wanna be remembered?
• 35:31
  Eileen Spinner: She's like, in prayer.
• 35:33
  Eileen Spinner: In prayer.
• 35:34
  Eileen Spinner: And then my dad was so sweet.
• 35:36
  Eileen Spinner: He was like, his, full name is Lambert.
• 35:38
  Eileen Spinner: And he said, I wanna be known as, like, the nicest Lambert.
• 35:43
  Lisa Nichols: The nicest Lambert in my life.
• 35:45
  Lisa Nichols: And I
• 35:45
  Eileen Spinner: just thought there's so much more I could write here.
• 35:48
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm like, I'm like, this Lambert.
• 35:51
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 35:54
  Lisa Nichols: You it's funny.
• 35:55
  Lisa Nichols: You know, you just remind me because I told my husband this was years
• 35:58
  Lisa Nichols: ago.
• 35:59
  Lisa Nichols: You know, I'm a praying woman.
• 36:00
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 36:01
  Lisa Nichols: And I believe in the power of prayer.
• 36:03
  Lisa Nichols: And I was telling him, I said, now on my epitaph, you know, I
• 36:08
  Lisa Nichols: want you to put here lies camel knees.
• 36:11
  Lisa Nichols: And he goes, what?
• 36:15
  Lisa Nichols: And I said, no.
• 36:16
  Lisa Nichols: Isn't that beautiful?
• 36:17
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, like, I got camel knees because I'm, like, kneeling in prayer all
• 36:20
  Lisa Nichols: the time.
• 36:21
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 36:21
  Lisa Nichols: We still laugh about that, but I still think that would be cool.
• 36:24
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, you you might do it.
• 36:26
  Lisa Nichols: Camel knees.
• 36:28
  Lisa Nichols: Alright.
• 36:29
  Lisa Nichols: So moving right along.
• 36:30
  Lisa Nichols: I digress there.
• 36:31
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, I know.
• 36:32
  Lisa Nichols: Your new book is Friend.
• 36:34
  Lisa Nichols: It's for friends.
• 36:35
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 36:36
  Lisa Nichols: So this is cool.
• 36:37
  Lisa Nichols: Why friends, Eileen?
• 36:39
  Eileen Spinner: Okay.
• 36:40
  Eileen Spinner: So, you know, people were like, oh, make any of that one.
• 36:42
  Eileen Spinner: Make a Godmother one.
• 36:43
  Eileen Spinner: And we were like, oh my gosh.
• 36:44
  Eileen Spinner: We can make a million of these.
• 36:45
  Eileen Spinner: It'll be like, you know, its own series.
• 36:47
  Eileen Spinner: But friend kept coming up for a few reasons.
• 36:50
  Eileen Spinner: But one that was kinda funny, I was telling sister Gianna, I was like,
• 36:54
  Eileen Spinner: a lot of times when I see people, I'm like, hey, friend.
• 36:57
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 36:59
  Eileen Spinner: So for that just made me laugh.
• 37:00
  Eileen Spinner: But, you know, I think doing friend, gives us space for
• 37:05
  Eileen Spinner: friends to reach out to each other.
• 37:07
  Eileen Spinner: Now, you know, it could kinda fall into that same legacy category, like, maybe
• 37:11
  Eileen Spinner: you have a friend that's towards end of life, and you'd say, hey.
• 37:13
  Eileen Spinner: I wanna help you do this.
• 37:15
  Eileen Spinner: I would love to ask you questions or if you wanna fill this out.
• 37:19
  Eileen Spinner: I think the beauty of actually doing it with someone is wonderful, but even
• 37:23
  Eileen Spinner: just handing it to them to fill out is great.
• 37:25
  Eileen Spinner: But we also saw, you know, there's an opportunity here for friends
• 37:30
  Eileen Spinner: to say, like, I really admire your faith.
• 37:32
  Eileen Spinner: I thought of you when I saw this book.
• 37:35
  Eileen Spinner: You need to write down your stories, your values, your faith because it's a
• 37:39
  Eileen Spinner: beautiful thing.
• 37:40
  Eileen Spinner: If you don't write it, it can be gone, you know, or lost.
• 37:43
  Eileen Spinner: Right.
• 37:44
  Eileen Spinner: So it's, you you know, kind of a cool thing to say, like, buy
• 37:46
  Eileen Spinner: one for yourself and buy one for a friend, that inspires you.
• 37:50
  Eileen Spinner: I am gonna have to give these to a lot of people because I've
• 37:53
  Eileen Spinner: been inspired by so many friends that, you know, their faith and
• 37:57
  Eileen Spinner: values just really amaze me.
• 37:59
  Eileen Spinner: I could see even, like, women's groups doing this or men's groups or
• 38:04
  Eileen Spinner: church groups, you know, saying, let's look at our roots.
• 38:07
  Eileen Spinner: Let's look at our faith, our prayers, our history, our travel, you
• 38:11
  Eileen Spinner: know, and talk about it.
• 38:12
  Eileen Spinner: And how does God show up in each of those things?
• 38:15
  Lisa Nichols: So I mean, there are friends,
• 38:17
  Lisa Nichols: Eileen.
• 38:18
  Lisa Nichols: There are friends that are as close as family.
• 38:21
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 38:22
  Eileen Spinner: Absolutely.
• 38:22
  Eileen Spinner: In your life.
• 38:23
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, there are friends that, you know, have been friends for life.
• 38:27
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 38:28
  Eileen Spinner: Yes.
• 38:28
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 38:29
  Eileen Spinner: Absolutely.
• 38:30
  Eileen Spinner: And I think of, I was actually just talking with sister, Joanna, last night,
• 38:33
  Eileen Spinner: and I was thinking of, and I'm a Catholic.
• 38:36
  Eileen Spinner: I'm really bad at, like, where in the Bible something is.
• 38:38
  Eileen Spinner: But I was like, Matthew eighteen twenty says, for where two or three gather
• 38:42
  Eileen Spinner: in my name, there I am with them.
• 38:43
  Eileen Spinner: And I thought, like, this is just a beautiful thing, you know, that you're
• 38:47
  Eileen Spinner: putting people together to do something beautiful, not just
• 38:51
  Eileen Spinner: for that person, but for everyone around them.
• 38:53
  Eileen Spinner: So
• 38:54
  Lisa Nichols: I love it.
• 38:54
  Lisa Nichols: And so and we'll put all this in the show notes, but where do
• 38:58
  Lisa Nichols: people can people go on Amazon and get all three of these?
• 39:01
  Eileen Spinner: Right.
• 39:01
  Eileen Spinner: Right.
• 39:02
  Eileen Spinner: So, they can yeah.
• 39:04
  Eileen Spinner: Books dot catechesis dot com is the press, but it's on Amazon, Barnes
• 39:08
  Eileen Spinner: and Noble, all the major retailers.
• 39:10
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 39:11
  Lisa Nichols: So good.
• 39:12
  Lisa Nichols: We'll make sure we put it in the show notes.
• 39:14
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
• 39:16
  Lisa Nichols: So how has this work influenced the way you love your own husband and
• 39:20
  Lisa Nichols: children, Eileen?
• 39:21
  Eileen Spinner: Oh my gosh.
• 39:22
  Eileen Spinner: So just beyond grateful for every day.
• 39:24
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 39:25
  Eileen Spinner: And, every little thing in my husband, my kids.
• 39:28
  Eileen Spinner: My favorite saint is Saint Therese.
• 39:31
  Eileen Spinner: She's known for, like, her little way, doing little things with great love.
• 39:34
  Eileen Spinner: And, you know, I think I try to model that for my kids, and
• 39:38
  Eileen Spinner: I see it in them.
• 39:40
  Eileen Spinner: Like, my daughter has the most amazing heart.
• 39:42
  Eileen Spinner: She is so thoughtful.
• 39:43
  Eileen Spinner: Even when she was itty bitty, like, she'd befriend the kid in the corner,
• 39:46
  Eileen Spinner: you know, that no one was around.
• 39:48
  Eileen Spinner: Like, just trying to, you know, do do good for others,
• 39:53
  Eileen Spinner: you know?
• 39:53
  Eileen Spinner: And it's funny.
• 39:54
  Eileen Spinner: My husband is is not one of my volunteers, but he did volunteer once.
• 39:58
  Eileen Spinner: And and it just it shows that yeah.
• 40:01
  Eileen Spinner: And I could tell that story in a second if you want me to,
• 40:03
  Eileen Spinner: but I I I just so I I this kind of plays
• 40:07
  Eileen Spinner: into what I think is most important in life, and that's, like, living our
• 40:11
  Eileen Spinner: gifts.
• 40:11
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 40:12
  Eileen Spinner: My husband is, like, a businessman, but he's like, you I admire your
• 40:16
  Eileen Spinner: hospice work.
• 40:16
  Eileen Spinner: I love what you do.
• 40:18
  Eileen Spinner: And I love that guy so much, but I especially love him for one
• 40:21
  Eileen Spinner: time when we needed a Batman.
• 40:24
  Eileen Spinner: We needed someone to be Batman for a pediatric patient, and we were like,
• 40:27
  Eileen Spinner: who would do this?
• 40:28
  Eileen Spinner: So I was like, Brian, is there any way you could dress up as
• 40:31
  Eileen Spinner: Batman and go visit this little pediatric patient?
• 40:33
  Eileen Spinner: And pediatric's so much harder even than than adults.
• 40:35
  Eileen Spinner: So I'm like, you can say no.
• 40:36
  Eileen Spinner: It's okay.
• 40:37
  Eileen Spinner: And he said, sure.
• 40:38
  Eileen Spinner: No problem.
• 40:39
  Eileen Spinner: I'm like, you can say no.
• 40:40
  Eileen Spinner: And he's like, if someone asks you to be Batman, you be Batman.
• 40:45
  Eileen Spinner: And he was incredible.
• 40:47
  Eileen Spinner: I remember when he left, this little boy was like, Batman was in my
• 40:51
  Eileen Spinner: house.
• 40:52
  Eileen Spinner: Oh my gosh.
• 40:52
  Eileen Spinner: And and he just played it, and he ended up doing it for a
• 40:55
  Eileen Spinner: few kids because the nurses loved it so much.
• 40:57
  Eileen Spinner: But what it showed me was, like, he shared his gifts.
• 41:02
  Eileen Spinner: That was his gift.
• 41:03
  Eileen Spinner: He might not, you know, wanna do bereavement phone calls or go sit in
• 41:06
  Eileen Spinner: an office or sit with someone who's dying, but he could play Batman for
• 41:09
  Lisa Nichols: a little pediatric.
• 41:11
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, boy.
• 41:12
  Lisa Nichols: Perfect.
• 41:13
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 41:13
  Eileen Spinner: And so I think this work has, you know, influenced us as a
• 41:17
  Eileen Spinner: family because it it just shows you, you know, you have gifts to give,
• 41:21
  Eileen Spinner: and you live every day to the fullest and do what you can for
• 41:24
  Eileen Spinner: other people.
• 41:25
  Lisa Nichols: That's so beautiful.
• 41:26
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 41:26
  Lisa Nichols: Well and I'm just thinking, Eileen, you saw that model about your own parents.
• 41:30
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 41:31
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 41:31
  Eileen Spinner: Your mom had
• 41:32
  Lisa Nichols: a food pantry for over forty years.
• 41:35
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, you saw that model.
• 41:37
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, my parents were the same way.
• 41:38
  Lisa Nichols: My mom was always serving.
• 41:40
  Lisa Nichols: And Yeah.
• 41:40
  Lisa Nichols: You know, you you see that and you grow up and you go, oh,
• 41:44
  Lisa Nichols: it's not about me.
• 41:45
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 41:45
  Lisa Nichols: I serve other people.
• 41:47
  Eileen Spinner: For sure.
• 41:48
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 41:48
  Eileen Spinner: Yeah.
• 41:48
  Lisa Nichols: It's so important.
• 41:51
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I've got just an another question for you, and then we'll we'll get
• 41:55
  Lisa Nichols: into something extra.
• 41:57
  Lisa Nichols: So, you know, if someone is listening today, right,
• 42:01
  Lisa Nichols: and they wanted to capture their story, but they feel really afraid to do
• 42:05
  Lisa Nichols: it or don't know where to start, what would you say to them, Eileen?
• 42:09
  Eileen Spinner: I don't know if I could say it like a Nike ad, but, like,
• 42:11
  Eileen Spinner: just do it.
• 42:12
  Lisa Nichols: Just do it.
• 42:13
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 42:13
  Eileen Spinner: Like, I remember when, Suzanne, who started the Lumina program, when
• 42:17
  Eileen Spinner: she retired, I thought, oh my gosh.
• 42:20
  Eileen Spinner: I wanna do I wanna take her I wanna take over that role when
• 42:23
  Eileen Spinner: she retires, but who am I?
• 42:25
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 42:26
  Eileen Spinner: And at the time, I remember thinking I I'm not
• 42:30
  Eileen Spinner: her.
• 42:30
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 42:31
  Eileen Spinner: And I remember one of our volunteers who was a published author at the
• 42:34
  Eileen Spinner: time was like, Eileen, do you write?
• 42:37
  Eileen Spinner: And I was like, yeah.
• 42:38
  Eileen Spinner: And she goes, then you're a writer.
• 42:41
  Eileen Spinner: And it was so simple, but I was like, you're right.
• 42:45
  Eileen Spinner: And that's what I tell people now too.
• 42:46
  Eileen Spinner: I'm like, if you write if you can write, you're a writer.
• 42:49
  Eileen Spinner: Or if you're not comfortable writing, record it.
• 42:52
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 42:53
  Eileen Spinner: We all have a story to tell.
• 42:55
  Eileen Spinner: And if you don't write it down or record it, then it's gone.
• 42:59
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 43:00
  Eileen Spinner: And I think we owe it to each other to do that.
• 43:03
  Eileen Spinner: You know?
• 43:04
  Eileen Spinner: We all have something special to offer in this world.
• 43:06
  Eileen Spinner: I love when I meet a patient that's like, oh, I don't know.
• 43:09
  Eileen Spinner: My family just wants me to do this, and then I'm there for an
• 43:11
  Eileen Spinner: hour and a half.
• 43:13
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 43:13
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 43:14
  Lisa Nichols: We all have
• 43:14
  Eileen Spinner: a story.
• 43:15
  Eileen Spinner: So, yes, if someone And then you know, without writing, write.
• 43:18
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 43:18
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 43:19
  Lisa Nichols: Eight billion people in the world.
• 43:21
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 43:21
  Lisa Nichols: And the collective wisdom
• 43:25
  Lisa Nichols: of eight billion people.
• 43:26
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 43:26
  Lisa Nichols: And I do.
• 43:28
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, you know, you just I I think just do it.
• 43:31
  Lisa Nichols: Like you said,
• 43:32
  Eileen Spinner: you can
• 43:32
  Lisa Nichols: start and, yeah, I think it's so beautiful.
• 43:35
  Lisa Nichols: I love love love what you're doing, for people and their
• 43:39
  Lisa Nichols: families.
• 43:40
  Lisa Nichols: But, Eileen, this is called something extra.
• 43:43
  Lisa Nichols: The common through line is what do you believe is the something extra that
• 43:47
  Lisa Nichols: every leader needs?
• 43:50
  Eileen Spinner: So I had a million answers to this.
• 43:53
  Eileen Spinner: I've been very blessed to have some really, really amazing leaders
• 43:57
  Eileen Spinner: in my life.
• 43:58
  Eileen Spinner: And the thing that kept kinda coming up is that, you know,
• 44:02
  Eileen Spinner: we're all made on purpose with a purpose.
• 44:07
  Eileen Spinner: And, like, we're at this time in life for some reason.
• 44:10
  Eileen Spinner: And I think we spend our lives trying to figure out what that is.
• 44:14
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 44:14
  Eileen Spinner: And and so I really think that something extra is trying
• 44:18
  Eileen Spinner: to figure out, like, what is my gift.
• 44:21
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 44:21
  Eileen Spinner: And then if I know my gift, then I have to share that gift.
• 44:24
  Eileen Spinner: And I think the thing that has touched me so much over and over
• 44:27
  Eileen Spinner: by my leaders is that they not only know their gift and share their
• 44:31
  Eileen Spinner: gift, they look at it in everyone that works for them.
• 44:34
  Eileen Spinner: And so if if as leaders, we find those gifts in other people and
• 44:38
  Eileen Spinner: help them share them, then, again, it's like sharing the light.
• 44:42
  Eileen Spinner: Right?
• 44:42
  Eileen Spinner: And so I think, you know, I've supervised so many volunteers
• 44:47
  Eileen Spinner: and interns over the years, and I tell you, I serve them best when
• 44:51
  Eileen Spinner: I can help them discover what that talent is and then how they can
• 44:54
  Eileen Spinner: best share.
• 44:55
  Eileen Spinner: Like, again, my husband could be Batman and he's a great Right.
• 44:59
  Eileen Spinner: You know, but just doing that, I think that's so huge.
• 45:03
  Eileen Spinner: So, you know, if we can find those gifts, share them with other people,
• 45:07
  Eileen Spinner: that's what it's that's what it's all about.
• 45:08
  Eileen Spinner: Whether it's at home, in your family, in your neighborhood, your church, your work,
• 45:13
  Eileen Spinner: that's what it's about.
• 45:14
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you're speaking my language, girl, because that's the whole premise of something extra.
• 45:18
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 45:19
  Lisa Nichols: We've all been given these gifts, but they weren't given for us to to
• 45:22
  Lisa Nichols: keep to for ourselves.
• 45:24
  Eileen Spinner: Mhmm.
• 45:24
  Lisa Nichols: Truly, we're to to share them.
• 45:26
  Lisa Nichols: And and then next level, like you just said, as a leader, is help
• 45:30
  Lisa Nichols: other people discover the same thing
• 45:32
  Eileen Spinner: Yes.
• 45:32
  Lisa Nichols: And help them lean into that.
• 45:34
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:34
  Lisa Nichols: So this has been so much fun.
• 45:36
  Lisa Nichols: I knew it would be, but thank you so much for your time.
• 45:40
  Lisa Nichols: I'm so excited for our listeners to learn from you, and I just, the
• 45:44
  Lisa Nichols: work you're doing, Eileen, is sacred work.
• 45:46
  Eileen Spinner: Aw.
• 45:46
  Eileen Spinner: Thank you.
• 45:47
  Eileen Spinner: I just appreciate being on here and being able to share about it.
• 45:50
  Eileen Spinner: Thank you so
• 45:51
  Announcer: much.
• 45:52
  Announcer: Thank you for listening to today's show.
• 45:54
  Announcer: Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production.
• 45:58
  Announcer: Copyright Technology Partners Inc two thousand and nineteen.
• 46:01
  Announcer: For show notes or to reach Lisa, visit t p I dot co
• 46:05
  Announcer: slash podcast.
• 46:06
  Announcer: Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever
• 46:11
  Announcer: you listen.