Latest / Generations Church / Apologetics Series 2024 - Part 2: The Deity of Jesus & The Trinity | Samuel Nesan & Andy Yeoh

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Apologetics Series 2024 - Part 2: The Deity of Jesus & The Trinity | Samuel Nesan & Andy Yeoh · Generations Church

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Hey there, you're listening to the Generation's Church podcast. We pray that the
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word of God today will challenge, change and channel you into your God given
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destiny. Now let's get started today. We're gonna well Jesus, amen,
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is Jesus God? Because we have friends even locally in Malaysia that likes to
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bring up this topic and say, your Jesus never said is God by He
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never claimed to be God himself. He never said about and worship me,
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He never said those works. So how even if he him something say he's
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gone, why are we claiming him to be God? So it's a pretty
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good question. Uh, And I did search up the New Testament. I
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can't find Jesus quoted saying I'm God, worship me words? Why is it?
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Is it what they claim since he because he's not God, he never
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claimed to be God? Is that is that? Is that claim true?
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And how do we know he's gone? That's important because if Jesus is not
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God, who are we worshiping? Who sees all? Hey, King Jesus
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they were thinking about. So we're gonna cover that. But also about trinity.
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Unlike any other religion, we have this concept called the trinity h and
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while we have this concert triunity, we still claim we worship only one true
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living God. We worship one true living God. Yet we also claim that
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we have a God who is the Father. We have a God who is
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the Son. We've got, we have a God who's the Holy Spirit.
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That sounds like tree gods. But you say you worship one God. That's
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confusing. So we hope to address that as well. Okay, let's start
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with the Trinity. In order for the Trinity to to hold, one of
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the three persons of the Trinity, Jesus has to be God. Otherwise the
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whole thing breaks apart. So we start with the Trinity and then we go
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to whether Jesus is indeed God or not. And so if you if you
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look at your work ship, it starts with the question why defend the Trinity?
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Or maybe we could even rephrase the question for our context today because we're
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not arguing, we're not debating today. But I think we can also ask
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the question this way, like why is the Trinity important to us? Why?
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Why are Christians? Why is this so important to Christianity? Can we
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just ignore it? It's such a it's such a difficult concept to grabs it's
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how to explain. We may or may not bring this up in a day
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to day basis. So why why border So I like to establish the importance
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of the Trinity. Why is it important? And there's at least four reasons
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why. And first let's read the scripture, because it's from the scripture that
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we get this. Matthew twenty eight, verse sixteen to twenty. I'll read
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verse sixteen. Now, the eleven disciples went to Galilee, the mountain to
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which Jesus had directed them, And when they saw him, they worshiped him.
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They worship who Jesus? They did? What to Jesus? They had
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a chat, they had wrote, pick together? What did they do?
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They play some games? No, they worshiped Jesus pretty important, even though
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some doubted. Some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, all
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authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me, All authority,
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not some, not a lot, all authority. And he says in verse
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nineteen, go therefore and make disciples of all nations. Go do this thing
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that will now come to know as the Greek commission. Go therefore and make
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disciples of all nations. How baptize them in the name of the Father,
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and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. So Jesus himself mentions
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these terms, baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son,
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and the Holy Spirit. So he mentions these three, these three persons,
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and then his continued to say, teaching them to observe all they've commanded you,
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and behold, I'm with you always to the end of the age.
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So it seems to me that by definition, cannot do the Great commission,
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meaning we cannot preach the Gospel, meaning we cannot bring this message of hope
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and truth, this message that mixed Christianity, Christianity, all of these things.
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We actually can't do it without the Trinity. Right, this would suggest
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that Jesus do this, what is this the great commission? Preach the Gospel.
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So all your missions, your mission trips, your evangelism, your whatever
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it is you do to bring this message to the world cannot be done apart
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from the Trinity. So that will be the first point. That would be
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the first reason why Trinity. The Trinity, although it's so hard to understand,
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so how to explain, But we need this, we need to understand,
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we need to accept and believe in the Trinity because it is central.
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That's the first plan to Great Commission. The Great Commission cannot be done apart
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from the Trinity. So we cannot ignore. We cannot, like, let's
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just talk about Jesus. That's the easy part, just the crossmand right,
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let's just only focus on that. It's just not possible, not allowed.
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So that also brings us to the second point. The Trinity is important because
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it is central to the Gospel. That means that you cannot actually preach and
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prison the gospel and only talk about Jesus, which is what we like to
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do because it's easy because that's there's the picture on the wall, that's the
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post, that's the painting, and you know, we all know, yes,
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and the whole world knows the name Jesus. And so it gets complicated
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when you know we're bringing the Holy Spirit and then the Father, and then
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there's this concept of father and son. It gets very complicated. So let's
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just avoid that. But I like to propose to you that we cannot do
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that. We cannot ignore the Trinity. It's important, all right. So
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it's central to the Great Commission. From the scripture, we can see that
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it's central to the Gospel and the Bible, which is the third blank.
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The Bible actually begins with the Trinity and ends with the Trinity in action.
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How do we see the Trinity in action in the beginning? How does the
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Bible start? Oh, the Bible starts in the beginning. Okay, great,
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wow, so smart? Okay, So in the beginning, in the
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beginning, what God created? God created? How did he create? By
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his word? Right? He spoke, and I think the first thing he
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said was let there be light. There was life. So from scripture we
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see the Trinity in action. How I think last week, remember we we
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had a little chart. We asked the question, who is the speaker?
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Who is the word of God? Who spoke those words? And they say
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it's called the Father. So God, the Father is the is the one
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that spoke those words? And who is described as the word in the Bible.
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Jesus, Right, Jesus is the word. Beginning was the word?
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The word was God, and the word was God what became flesh. So
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Jesus is the word. And when you speak, what comes out of your
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mouth as the words of your mouth, as the words to leave your mouth?
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What is that? The physical breath which is by the way, what
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spirit means. The word spirit is the word breath. So in that one,
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actually, when God spoke the word to existence, all of the three
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persons of a trinity are in action together. Right, So the Bible actually
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begins with the treaty action and it ends is the Bible. And it's fascinating
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because you talked about worships. Now, yes, in the Great Commission,
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and I just want to point that out and derve tail to the answer the
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question that answered the question that you just said. The Bible begins in the
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Great Commission by saying, go make disciples of all nations. In fact,
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if you are a very particular on grammar, the word disciple is the only
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verb in that entire clause. It's the only verb. Because you you ask
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people how many verbs are that they think disciple, make disciples, baptizing,
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teaching, and all that going. Actually it's not the other is all participles.
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Well, you're asking, what is that well that teaches you how to
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fulfill the verb if I told you finish the exam, that's the verb by
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filling out all the answers, checking, signing your name in the bottom.
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Checking. Filling and signing are not verbs. They are participles. They help
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you fulfill the finish your exam. Verb right. Quite a great commission says
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that go make disciples, and the Greek doesn't even have the word disciples.
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The Greek actually has the word disciple as a verb disciple. And the question
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is how do we do that? Well, we do that by going,
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because you can't sit on your chair and not this internet maybe can, but
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you have to this intentionality. You gotta go. You do baptize, and
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you got to teach them to do all that Christ is commanded. And part
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of that which Christ taught is the trinity. And so your Christian is we
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saw the Trinity in action in creation because in Genesis chapter one, God spoke.
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The Bible also says in verse two Genesis one two, the Spirit is
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houring over the water. The word creates. So you have the Word of
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God Jesus, you have the Holy Spirit, you have the Father, all
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three persons in the first two verses of the Bible. Now you come to
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the great commissions. As to end it out, it says that when they
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saw him, they worshiped him. Interestingly, that's not the last time the
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Bible talks about the ship of Jesus. Where is the trinity mentioned again?
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Revelation chapter twenty two worse three Revelation chapter twenty two, verse three, and
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it's the fifth of the Bible. In that final chapter it actually says,
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anyone want to turn revelation, Yes, all right, anyone want to turn
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to Revelation twenty two three. What does it say that the throne? How
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many occupants are there to the throne of God? Revelation twenty two, verse
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three, How many occupants are there to God's thrown Two? They are God
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and the Lamb. And it goes on to say his servants will worship him,
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worship him? Who is the him? Now in Greek, the way
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you answer that question is find out what is the nearest anticident, What is
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the nearest word that comes close to him? Well, the closest one is
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Lamb. So his servants, that is, the servants of the Lamb will
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worship him. The worship of Jesus is even in the final chapter, and
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the chapter twenty two also goes on to talk about the Spirit who invites us
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and says, the Spirit and a bride say come, and so you have
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the Holy Spirit, you have the Father, the throne of God. You
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have the Lamb, and in the very last chapter of the Bible, it
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really begins and ends with it. That's right, amen, Okay, so
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far, so good? Okay, important, Uh, the Bible ends,
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begins and ends with the Trinity in action. And of course, finally,
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the Trinity is important to the Gospel because it distinguishes Christianity from every other religion.
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There are other religions that also claim they only worship one God. So
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what's so impressive, what's so true about your religion? My we also watch
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one God. Suppose you know what'soul being many many gods? Is it's Yeah,
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that alone makes it not believable. So Christianity alo one God, some
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o the regions of one God. So what's special, what's so different?
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What's so unique? The Trinity is what's unique. The Trinity is what distinguishes
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Christianity from every other religion. And this is why it's important for Christians to
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study and understand this. Yeah. Absolutely. And the thing is that in
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every religion, let's be careful of saying every religion, let's just say generally,
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what we tend to see in other religions is that the gods of these
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religions very often resemble the worshippers themselves. Right, And I'm not getting into
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detail, but the gods of the religions, generally speaking, typically resemble the
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worshippers themselves, but only in Christianity. To my knowledge, I've yet to
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come across a religion that is different. That you have God so incredibly complex
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to the human mind that the theologian Augustine One said, to try and deny
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the Trinity is to risk your salvation, or is to risk losing your salvation.
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And to try to understand the Trinity is to risk losing your mind because
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it's that complex. And you say, well, no one could actually sit
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down and invent these things. So where did it come from? Well,
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it comes from Peacing. Chapter one was one of Genesis all the way to
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Revelations. Unity too. It's the compilation of all scriptures, says that we
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derived as a amazing doctrine. Andy truly distinguished sets Christianity apart from every other
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faith in the world. And we'll look at now next next we'll look at
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what what is the doctoral Trinity? What does it tell us? So we
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don't we won't break our minds yet, but at least define it. The
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five affirmations, right, the five informations? What makes the doctrinal trinity?
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What do we believe when we say the trinity? Okay, are you ready
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for that? So I'm just gonna breech pool so that we can later on
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use these as a foundation and then answer those questions that you are now pouring
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in. So five affirmations of the doctrinal of the Trinity. Number one is
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that there is one God. There is still no tree gods. There's no
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tree hates. There's no one God with three hates. It's one God.
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We are still saying it's one God. But what do we What do we
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mean by one God? I'm just going to throw the terms out there first
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and we can explain later. We mean it by one substance, one being,
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one nature. So Jesus and the Father shares one nature, one being.
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That's what we mean by one God. By what right? This is
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the word. So we'll come to that. But this story is out first
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because some of you have this old CD. No, you have to fill
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in the blank. If you go home without a blank, spill you'll come
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and kill us. So we're feeling the blanks first. Number two, what
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we when we say that when we say trinity, we mean the Father is
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God, Father is God. We also mean Jesus is God. Okay,
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the mind starts so cracky. Wait wait, wait what God? But the
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Father has got that Jesus also God. Now we have two gods. Not
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so fast. The fourth point is the Holy Spirit is God. Okay,
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now we have three gods. How do we deal with this? But we've
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already established as one God, one God. And we mean that by saying
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there is the three persons that shares one substance, it makes them one.
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Okay, we'll get there. Uh, that's where that's where we come to
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the last point. The fifth affirmation of the doctrin or trinity, Uh,
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that they are Father. They meaning the Father, the Son, the Holy
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Spirit. They are distinct persons, distinct persons, okay. Uh. Not
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three different gods combining to become one. Not Voltron, not one of those.
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No. No, they didn't just combine and like combined power. No
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Captain Plannet kind of thing. Not three, not like five elements becoming one
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Captain Plannet, not that concept. It's they chair one substance, one being.
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All right, So lay out there first, When we say trinity,
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we mean there's one God one but but the one God means the Father is
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God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. But they
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are three distinct persons. I think that the chart kind of explains that.
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Okay, go for it. So you have that the Father is God,
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is God, the Spirit is God. But at the same time, the
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Son is not the Holy Spirit, the Father is not the Son, and
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the Holy Spirit is not. So there is this unity and diversity within the
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Trinity that it doesn't go against human logic or go against logic. I think
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it transcends logic itself. Yeah, so you get that. That's what you
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mean by distinction. That means what they all three is one God. The
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Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son, the Sign
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is not the Holy Spirit orly Spirit is not the Father. So there's this
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distinction plus few one. Yeah, and people don't seem to get that past.
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One of the things that strikes me as odd is that you would typically
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hear people, especially atheists, say this, and they pretend that they understand
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the Trinity. Let's go to the previous light, please, the one before
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this. I'm not, just to be clear for the record, I'm not
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promoting this t shirt. Okay, so it's not in Chaine shop, not
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available. No, don't buy this tation all right? Well, it says
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here atheis because God sending himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from
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himself is a bit much to believe. What do you think God sending himself
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to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself, it's a bit much
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to believe. What do you think? Now? I tell you what I
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think. I fully agree. I fully agree. Actually I couldn't agree more.
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I think it's too much to believe too. I think that's absolutely nonsensical
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because we don't believe that God sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save
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us from himself. Know what do we believe? In John three sixteen,
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God so loved the world that he sent his said, not himself. The
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Father is not the son. You see. And these guys who pretend to
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make fun of the Trinity, they don't understand the basic fundamental principles of the
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Trinity itself. God the Father is not Jesus. They at distinct persons want
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God, not the same person. So there's a examples past end of how
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of friends who usually want to say, oh, the Trinity doesn't make sense.
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Well, obviously if you present it this way, I'm with you,
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it doesn't make sense. But that's not what Christians have historically believed it.
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Yeah, and from that, can I can I already bring up a question
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that's being asked you a thing it's related, uh, and just see how
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you and I can answer this. Basically, there's a question that asks that
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is asked this way. Is there is there like a father son relationship between
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Jesus and God the Father, So it's like a father's relationship or is it
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like a self love type of you like God is loving himself? So you
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kind of addressed it. Really, But I think what they're trying to ask
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behind this question is like, how does it work? How does this father's
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some relationship work? Because the Father, the earthly Father's a relationship the way
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we understand it is very different than what I think Jesus has to be the
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father you will be speaking to. That is God just is like God's loving.
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Oh I love me. When I say the Father lost the son,
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is he really cause saying I love me? Or is there a distinction this
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means to something else? The funny thing is it's one person here who's actually
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written an entire research paper on wonder. That person is past Andy. So
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he wrote an entire research paperon that. I've had a privilege to read it.
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It's it's beautiful because he ties it into the pastoral application as well.
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But that I would say something, and of course you have a lot more
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to say. Please speak to him about this. He's the best person to
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speak to on this. But one of the things I would say to that
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is that when the Bible says that there is a father son relationship, notice
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that is not the same relationship that the Father has with the Spirit. The
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Spirit is not the son of God. So then you ask in what sense
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is Jesus the son of God. Now I tell you this, it was
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only when I was doing my PhD. I began to really make sense of
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this book. I couldn't understand this. If you go to the Nicene Creed,
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which was the earliest one of the early Christian creeds that was developed in
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the year three hundred and twenty five a d. They talk about this interesting
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clause of the sun. They say that the son was begotten of the Father.
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Let me hold it the right way, begotten not created, begotten before
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all ages? What does it mean to say that Jesus is eternally begotten of
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the Father? Now. I struggled with that even when I was doing my
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PhD, because it didn't make sense to me until I began to realize that
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what it really means is that from eternity pass. And if you don't understand
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this, that it's completely fine because in a sense, neider, do I
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right? In eternity pass God the Father or already God, the Son proceeded
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from the Father himself. In other words, that the son proceeds from the
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very nature of the Father. So he is not created, but he is
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begotten. Now again, I cannot explain that. One of the best passages
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to explain this is in Micah chapter five worse two. Micah Chapter five worse
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two. If you have your Bibles, can someone read out loud Micah chapter
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five worse two. Okay, well, since we have it here, and
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I still want people to read, because your versions are going to say different
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things depending because this is such a complex text to explain. It says talking
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about by the way, predicting the birth of Jesus. But you, oh
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Bethlehem Ephrata, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah.
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From you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel.
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But who is the media God a father right comfort for me, one
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who is to be ruler in Israe world. That's Jesus, by the way,
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whose coming forth is from old, from ancient days. What does that
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mean? It means he came faith from ancient days. Now, if you
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have another version, if your version says everlasting, can I see your hands?
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Yeah? Can you read that out loud? Please? Yes? From
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everlasting, which means that in eternity past, Jesus proceeded from the Father.
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It was not the Father's will for this to happen. This took place in
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eternity just out of necessity. Right, It's out of necessity. It could
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not possibly have been by any other way. It's not like the Father chose,
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because that would be creation. Jesus proceeded from the Father. And that
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is why you have a very interesting raise in John one one. We read
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John one one quote John one. We don't realize that John one one begins
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with this. John one one says in the beginning was the what do words
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do they proceed from? The speaker, don't they That's already there. The
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Word was with God, not when did the word proceed in the beginning,
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See I read that. I thought that must be dealing past to Andy with
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with with with You know that something like Jesus became the word, you know,
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when he became men. The problem is John one fourteen says the word
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became flesh. So the word is the prior state, eternal state. He
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was the word. The Word became flesh. But that means it already eternally
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implies procession. He proceeds from the Father. Okay, then you say,
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okay, great, great, what about the Holy Spirit? If the Holy
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Spirit is not the Son of God, then what is the Holy Spirit?
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Now Here is where the Bible uses a very interesting phrase. Now we don't
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get this because I think past Andy mentioned this, but only if you know
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your Hebrew and Greek you kind of get the feel of this. In the
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Hebrew and in the Greek, roch and numa are both words for the spirit,
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but they also mean breadth. So the Son is the Word of God,
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who proceeds from the Father. But the Father and the Son breathe the
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Holy Spirit. So the Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son.
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That is why, on the one hand, the Father sends the Holy Spirit.
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On the other hand, of the Bible says Jesus sends the Holy Spirit.
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So you have the spirit coming from both the Father and the Son.
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So it's not like three friends got together, past Andy and decided to start
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a company called Godhead, right, It's not like that. What actually happened
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is that from eternity God, the Son proceeded from the Father, and from
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Father and son proceed the Holy Spirit. They are of one nature, inseparable,
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coequal, co eternal. Answer today, maybe you can break that down
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pastorally, I think, Oh okay, So Severn mentioned that I wrote a
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paper on this topic. Uh. And the paper is actually on the whole
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concept called the eternal generation of the Sun, which basically, if I can
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break it down to lay language, is like so most okay, those of
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us who are sons, we had a beginning, right, like you know,
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Father, mother did something, then we came out right, right,
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so we all we all at a beginning. Uh so that makes us a
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son. We have a father, right. But if we applied the same
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understanding to Jesus, then they will imply that Jesus once upon a time wasn't
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the sun, and then he became the son, and that creates a problem
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because if Jesus had a beginning, then he can't be God. Right,
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he has a limitation and he can't be God. So that's approse. My
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paper kind of like touches on that doctrine. Uh, and it examines the
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pastoral and pologetical implications on that doctrine. So if if we accept that Jesus
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was always the sun from eternity and forever will be the sun, so he
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has his son but has no beginning, then how does it affect our evangelism?
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How does it affect what we're teaching church and what songs we sing in
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church and stuff like that? Right, So I don't know. It's not
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being graded yet, to be honest, although you did, but it's not
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being graded by the Bible School yet. So I'm not sure. Because I
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was about to say, I don't mind sharing this paper onto our church discod
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server so that they can read it's good. Okay, So just that I
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don't grade those papers. Yes, So yeah, it doesn't grade, so
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there's non biasedness. But so it's just if it's good, I will Is
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it okay? I will just because it's a long paper and I can't shay
26:42
it here. Uh, there's too much to cover. It's worth the reader.
26:47
I will put it out on our discords server and you can have a
26:48
read. Is that okay? Okay? Great? Great? And then but
26:53
I do want to address this because this this is interesting a particular part the
27:00
global intenational American past's name is mentioned and what he teaches, and then and
27:06
then and then there's a question that I think I have to answer because because
27:10
it has got to do his songs, because I mentioned songs just now,
27:12
and songs have theology in it and stuff like that. Right, So I
27:15
think our adress that part. So Stephen Furtigue mentioned Jesus as being in modes.
27:22
God is different modes. How does that affect it mentions? How affect
27:30
his theology? I don't know. We can just make it more general,
27:32
like in general, I seem like, if you believe that Jesus has different
27:34
modes, and how does that affect what we believe? Uh? And then
27:38
our address the next part, why do we still sing songs written by his
27:41
church? Think this would be pretty easy, pretty quick. Jesus is not
27:45
in different modes. Those who claim that Jesus and the Father are different modes
27:51
would usually use something like, uh, you know that, you know the
27:56
steam water eyes analogy? Have you heard those analogies? Those are really bad
28:02
analogies, right, really terrible because they imply that once upon a time he
28:07
was the Father in the Old Testament, he became the Son in the New
28:10
Testament, and then he went up and came back down as the Holy Spirit.
28:12
The one problem with that, as we would see in the biblical verses,
28:18
is that at the baptism of Jesus, the Father said, you are
28:22
my son. With you, I am well pleased. So if there is
28:26
different modes, was Jesus saying to himself that I'm pleased with myself and noticed
28:30
the Spirit lands on Jesus. So you have the Trinity all in one scene.
28:34
You could have taken a picture of video with the Father's war is the
28:37
Spirit there and Jesus, So they're all three there at the same time,
28:41
and so it can't be it's impossible for that to be different modes. Rather,
28:45
it's better to say they are distinct persons so that they're always having fellowship
28:51
with one another. Yes, so can I also say that. I think
28:57
as human beings, we've tried our very best, open generations to try to
29:03
understand the Trinity. So in our quests and pursuit to try to understand and
29:07
explain, So I think we come from a generally speaking like, you're if
29:11
you believe in Jesus, you you're God fearing. I don't think you set
29:15
out to purposely intentionally teach wrong or bad doctrine or weak doctrine, right,
29:19
So it's in our pursuit to try to explain we come up with things like
29:22
God is like an egg. You know, it's good, it's the shell,
29:26
it makes one egg. It's problematic as well. Then we try to
29:30
explain it by all its h two, oh, you know, whether you're
29:33
solid or The problem is that, like you know, with with that,
29:37
you can exist in one one state at one time. But God's not limited
29:41
by that, right, God can exist all three persons exist at the same
29:45
time all times. So that's why some of these analogies or examples or metaphors
29:52
are not sufficient. But I like to see this as us trying to explain
29:57
God and then we kind of like which we tend to do. We since
30:02
we can't fully explain God. We try to limit him to our own understanding,
30:07
and somewhere there we may have gone off the path. So I don't
30:14
know. I don't know who stilling. I mean, I know who steping
30:15
for it is, I don't know, like I don't know him. Not
30:22
to be fair, I think it's also him trying to explain and maybe just
30:26
end up explaining in a way that's weak, it's not as good. But
30:33
so if he teaches stuff like that, and you know, we we clearly
30:37
now know like, oh, that's not a very good way to explan Trinity.
30:38
It's the wrong way. It's bad. It limits God, and it's
30:42
saying something about God. It's not true. Why are we singing songs from
30:45
his church? Now? There are people who have very strong convictions like if
30:52
the past that teaches back doctrine, I will not sing any songs that comes
30:56
up from that church. I want to read their books. I will not
30:59
even look at their site. I will scroll past the Instagram post. There
31:03
are people like that, Okay, God bless them, nothing wrong with that,
31:06
that's your conviction. Ah, And there are people who like they are
31:11
actually absolutely do not care doctrine and my Li's okay, totally not care,
31:15
not responsible at all, not like the Brians, where they actually I wonder
31:21
is this really in the Bible, and then go and search and read up
31:23
on their own. So I don't know where on the spectrum you are.
31:27
But for me, I guess this is a question that only I can answer.
31:30
Why do we still sing songs from that church? I tend to separate
31:37
this. I don't know whether, yeah, I tend to separate the song,
31:42
the product from the person because, okay, maybe they say this way,
31:49
like if if you're going to buy a chair, you go to the
31:53
furniture shop and you found out that about to buy from it here is created
31:59
by an athies, like the person actually hates God. Do you stick by
32:01
the chair? So someone might say, now that I know it's in eighteen
32:07
chair, I won't buy the chair. I will only buy chairs from people
32:10
who believe in Jesus. Fine, you didn't bring any law, you didn't
32:15
offind anybody. That's your conviction. But if you do buy the chair made
32:20
by an atheists, I find there's nothing wrong in that because you're just buying
32:27
a chair to sit on. You're not worship chair. You're not you're not
32:31
bound by the chair. It's not the only chair you'll buy, and you're
32:37
not only You're not only buy chair from this one athe So I tend to
32:42
do that the If there's nothing wrong with the chair, the chair is not
32:45
broken, I'm not now bound by the chair. I'm not now addicted to
32:49
a chair. I can only sit on this chair or worship this chair.
32:52
I feel it's okay. I feel it's okay. Having said that, I
32:54
still do examine the chair. So if there's one leg is broken, then
32:58
why would I buy it? Right? So, I believe that there's the
33:04
songs from the church that may have some bad theology in it or wrong theology
33:09
in it. Once we know it, we detect it, we don't sing
33:13
it. But if the theology sound or maybe it's a theology that I don't
33:20
know enough yet, and so I don't know enough to say it's wrong yet,
33:23
then we may still sing it. When the moment we know it's wrong,
33:27
we stop singing it. You give them great where I'm going, Like
33:29
the moment I examined the chair and I found out wait, one leg shortened
33:31
and the other oa, you should know it earlier. But then I'm like,
33:35
okay, I'm not buying this chair from this person anymore, right,
33:38
because otherwise, if you apprentice to songs, you have to apply it to
33:42
everything. Now the chocolate tale that the antiamate and she believes in, like
33:45
like Kuanima or something, and then you're, oh, I can't eat this
33:49
charco anymore. I can't go to the doctor because the doctor prays to zaiy
33:52
bah bah. I will already go to doctor be not and maybe doctor ling
33:58
ling and doctor leting you. You get my point? Like I tend not
34:06
to throw the baby out with the buff water. But that's not a reason
34:10
to be irresponsible. So we do try and try and learn. And I'm
34:15
learning. So once I know, okay, this is bad or rong geology,
34:19
then me stop singing a song. Until then I have no reason.
34:22
I feel like the reason that because the positives back theology. Sometimes therefore I
34:28
blanket and say no, books, no, you know what I'm saying.
34:31
Yeah, just add on to that a bit like I think that if you
34:37
want to make a rule that says that you cannot take a song from a
34:42
ministry that you know has geological issues, then I think one would have to
34:45
find a biblical basis for them. I'm not sure there's any biblical basis.
34:50
And I love what you said. If your conviction tells you don't do it,
34:52
don't do it, right. But if if you don't have that conviction
34:55
and someone's going to impose to you and tell you it, you can't do
34:59
that, I guess my question will be raised that in the Bible. Now
35:02
I'm not That's that's what I feel, right, So I think you ought
35:07
to be free to follow our convictions exactly once you start imposing something that is
35:10
a conviction. So if it's a biblical law, by all means we all
35:15
you know, otherwise we will be sitting against God anyway, whether or not
35:19
the person imposes something on you. But if it's a conviction, if it's
35:22
your you know, like Paul says, you know, if you're gonna eat
35:24
this en stumble a brother, He's not saying don't eat pork. If symbols
35:30
a friend and that hinders your your relationship or hindus your evangelism, then then
35:34
don't do it. Right. So yeah, okay, great, Okay,
35:39
lots of questions like always that's good, And yes, there there is there
35:45
is someone who says trinity it goes and Gus uh, solid vapor and what's
35:54
your you know, liquid liquid? Look it? So I hope we've addressed
35:58
that. Let's scratch that. Let's see what else is there? Every every
36:04
almost every analogy human analogy of the Trinity ends up making it three gods or
36:08
modes one one person, one god. You know, every almost and every
36:14
analogy ends up doing that, which is why I avoid giving any analogies and
36:17
analogies at all. I think in scripture God says to what would you compare
36:22
me to? The Creator? The Creator cannot be compared to anything else in
36:25
all of creation. Okay, uh, okay, Just just so that I
36:30
can address those of you who are putting questions here, some questions here that
36:36
is not directly related to today's topic, So we will leave that to later
36:39
if there's time, right, So not avoiding your questions, just that we
36:44
want to be faithful to the topic, because I think there are people who
36:46
came here for the topic, so I hope that they can get those questions
36:50
answered. And if it's related to topics that is coming up in the coming
36:54
weeks, then we'll leave it to then. All right, He said,
36:57
Okay, all right, let's see there was a there was something about omnipotents
37:02
earlier. Let me try to find that again. Where did he go?
37:08
Okay, if there there is one God but three persons, how do we
37:14
explain the omnipotence of God? Is the son, so it's a hieracha concussion.
37:19
It's the son in lower hierarchy than the father. So therefore he's less
37:25
powerful, not all powerful, because the Father is all powerful. So yeah,
37:30
which is addressed in my paper, but we can Yeah, I was
37:34
about to say that, Actually, yeah, your paper addresses that, but
37:37
just put in simple. So yeah, it's the concept of Uh. I
37:39
think we're going to explain substance because earlier there's one God. And when we
37:44
we define what we mean one in substance, one in being, one in
37:47
nature, one in property. Should we explain that? Yeah, yeah,
37:52
I think, I think, but maybe you can explain it. What I'll
37:53
quickly do is just say that all of this attributes of God. Now,
37:58
just to be clear, how many attributes does God have? The answer is
38:04
one? Right, God only has one because God is not chopped up into
38:07
different parts, because to do that would say, if I'm going to make
38:10
God, let's put a bit of love here, a bit of justice,
38:13
a bit of holiness, a bit of mercy, and you mix it up
38:15
and you get God. That's not what it is. The whole thing of
38:19
concept about God is God has no parts. We call this divine simplicity.
38:23
Not that he's simple to understand, but He is not complex or compound,
38:28
made up of many small parts. So ultimately God only has one attribute.
38:32
Humanly speaking, we don't have the right words to describe what that attribute is,
38:38
so we end up saying that God is love and God is just.
38:43
But you know, the funny thing is, his love is a just love
38:46
and his justice is a loving justice, and so it's all together in one.
38:52
It's not that they are balanced, it's that they are perfectly actualized.
38:58
Sense is properly in the fuller sense. So when you say that God is
39:04
all powerful or all knowing or all present, you're dealing with the being of
39:12
God, which is equally shared by the Father, Son, and the Holy
39:15
Spirit. So whatever omnipotence is attributed to the Father is also attributed to the
39:22
Son and to the Spirit as well. You can't say the Father has more
39:24
omnipotence than the Son. No. I think all that pastor stems from this
39:28
one worse that people misunderstands the Father is greater than I, and I think
39:32
we have to distinguish between a functional subordination that Jesus voluntarily chose to submit versus
39:39
a equality. Because if let's say I were to work in generations church,
39:45
and let's say I'm the you know, maybe a youth pastor or maybe a
39:47
children's pastor, and I say, well, Pastor Andy is greater than I.
39:52
I don't mean in size, clearly as you can see right, you
39:54
know, I wish I could be that size. But what I mean is
39:59
that in function he's greater. If I say that anwa ibra him is greater
40:04
than I, what I actually mean is that in position he's prime Minister,
40:07
I'm I'm me right. So at the end of the day, he has
40:12
two hands. I have two hands. He has two feet. I have
40:14
two feet. On being I have, I mean, I'm as much a
40:17
human being as he is. So when you talk about omnipotence, it's dealing
40:21
with being, not with function. Like to maybe you can can you help
40:28
find the scripture collision chapter two these nine? Yeah, So so this would
40:39
also address those who say, yeah, but Jesus never claimed to be God.
40:45
He's the Son, so he can't be as God as the Father is
40:47
at least a little bit less. I think some cows that your witness claims
40:52
that Jesus is not God, but he's a very special person just that resulted.
40:58
He was the first of our great and because God created him first,
41:00
and God existed in eternity, and eternity is so long as because he's exist
41:04
for so long, he's being we got for so long. He's almost like
41:07
God, but he's not God. So we've got all these different concepts and
41:10
sometimes we're like, yeah, actually, how do we explain this? And
41:14
you know, we just talked about how that Jesus and the Father shares exact
41:21
same nature that miss Jesus is not ninety nine percent of God's the Father's nature,
41:25
like, oh, very high. Ninety percent is very high already,
41:29
and that will make God, that it will make Jesus lesser than God.
41:32
It has to be one hundred percent, right. So there's this powerful scripture
41:37
that I discovered in class and I never saw it before and I never raised
41:42
before, but I think it's so powerful. So it's a colationship to verse
41:45
nine, which says for him referring to Jesus the whole fullness of deity.
41:52
And you can understand that as every attribute we know now as one, but
41:57
just for the say, with discussion every attribute. So if there were ninety
42:00
nine attributes, that makes God God all ninety nine. If it requires so,
42:07
we will say it is this nature that makes God the Father God.
42:12
So let's call his nature x y ZAC all x y Z for example,
42:19
all the attributes, whatever substance that makes God the Father God. All of
42:23
that duells bodily in Jesus. And and and these words are carefully not just
42:31
chosen. It's inspired God, God inspired that these words are written. So
42:36
in Jesus everything that makes God God, all of the attributes are substance,
42:43
dunsing Him in the flesh. This is where we get the whole concept of
42:46
Jesus being truly God and truly men at the same time. And and and
42:55
so this scripture tells us that Jesus is not less, he's not lower on
43:04
the hierarchy. He is God. And that's why he is to be worshiped,
43:09
because only God deserves worshiped. Only God can receive worship uh. And
43:15
Jesus is to be worshiped because he is truly God. He is God and
43:22
all in all, in every sense of that, every sense of the word.
43:25
Uh. And it speaks to Jesus' humility. I think it's in Philippines
43:30
too. Philippians two was fine forwards. Maybe you can pull that up at
43:35
so Philippines two was five heaving this mine among yourself, which is yours in
43:39
Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did
43:44
not count equality with God a thing to be grabs, but emptied himself.
43:47
It was voluntary. He was not made, He was not made to do
43:52
it. Voluntary, emptied himself, taking the form of a seven being born
43:58
in likeness of men. This he speaks to his humility. Right you want
44:00
to speak more into that? Oh? Yes, because you see it talks.
44:05
Verse five says have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ
44:08
Jesus. And before this it says, consider one another equal. You know
44:12
worse four. Can we go to worse four? Please consider others most significant
44:15
of yourselves. That's what it's saying. So that's verse thirty worse four.
44:21
Yeah, Let each of you not look only to his own interests, but
44:24
also to the interests of others. So you have to count others more significant
44:29
of yourselves than it says in worse five, have this mind among yourselves,
44:32
which is yours. In Christ, Jesus, who though he was in the
44:36
form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grounds,
44:39
but emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant and being born,
44:45
and being born in the likeness of men. So Jesus chose to humble
44:49
himself. And Paul cannot use that as an exemplary act of humility. If
44:55
Jesus was already lesser than God, right, I'm not if I submit to
45:00
my boss, I'm not being very humble, right, because he's my boss.
45:04
Right. But if I'm equal to someone and I voluntarily choose to be
45:07
a servant, that speaks to humility. And Paul is saying to the church,
45:12
you all are equal to one another, but serve one another in the
45:15
same way that Christ chose to serve God. In other words, he's equal
45:20
to God. Yes, it's awful, powerful lesson of humility. Yes,
45:23
I think we've already addressed some of these questions, So just read the questions
45:25
so that we know where addressed them. For example, in a trinity.
45:29
Do they each have equal power? Yes? Yes, because omnipotent or powerful,
45:35
they are one. In fact, Jesus says. One of my favorite
45:37
verses is John five. Jesus says, the son does nothing of his own.
45:42
He does only what he sees his father doing. For whatever the father
45:46
does, the son also does. If the father can create, so can
45:50
the son create. The father can judge, so can the son judge that
45:53
whatever the father can do he can do? All right, Yes, let
45:57
me see what else. There's some question about tongues. We want to address
46:00
that today. The hardest part to answer questions on trinity is how they God
46:07
get a son. His mother married the mom both on earth and in heaven.
46:13
Mary is not the mom in heaven. But Mary can be rightly called
46:16
the Mother of God, and this is something that caused a lot of friction
46:20
in the early Church. The word in well in Greek that they use for
46:24
this is called theo the costs th h e o t o k o s.
46:30
It literally means the god bearer. So Mary is rightly called the God
46:34
Bearer or the Mother of God because her son is truly man and truly God.
46:39
To take to say that Mary is only the mother of the human Jesus,
46:45
but not the divine Jesus. To put a dichotomy between the person of
46:50
Jesus, thereby creating two persons, the human Jesus and the divine Jesus.
46:54
You can't do that. The Bible speaks to the unity of the person of
46:58
Christ. So in a sense that means that Mary is the mother of God.
47:01
But by all I mean for all intents and purposes. Let's be careful
47:07
that not to exalt her to be any more than what Scripture says she is.
47:10
Because in Luke Chapter one, I believe she actually says, Praise be
47:15
to God, my Savior, which means she recognized she needs saving. Two,
47:20
she's not sinless, as some have argued. Wow, it's a lot
47:24
of good questions. Okay, this is a practical one, although there are
47:31
other questions as well that we've already addressed, but read them to make sure
47:36
that we've covered it. For example, what do you mean therefore, that
47:38
God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one that each know they're not
47:42
they are one? Okay, that's partialism, man, that's partialism. Yeah.
47:46
Does it mean spiritually they are one, but physically there are three.
47:51
God is spirit God. There's only one person who has a physical body,
47:55
and that person is Jesus. Yes, and that time, yeah, at
48:00
the Jesus in a day we call Christmas day. Only then did God have
48:05
a body. So it's a practical question what would be the best way,
48:08
then, the best way we can find to describe the trinity to a pretty
48:14
believer? How do we how do we practically expect the five statements we just
48:20
read, because that's absolutely biblical everything we read in that five statement there you
48:24
go, Yeah, it's work for work. Yeah. So I think what
48:30
they're looking for is, oh do I do I use a water? Do
48:34
I use uh? You know? Oh, I'm one person, but I'm
48:39
I'm the father, I'm a son and a brother all at the same time.
48:44
Oh that's still one person. Yeah, still one person, right,
48:50
So not three persons, three rules, one person. Yeah. So I
48:53
think if our goal is to find an earthly explanation to explain this, we
48:59
will be type press. I was going to be kinder like, it's it's
49:04
almost impossible and the scripture is the only way to explain it, and I
49:10
think we may not be able to fully understand or comprehend it. It's beyond.
49:17
And I know that sounds like a cop out. You Christians always say
49:22
like that. It's you're playing the mystery card. Anything, you gotta explain
49:25
its mysterious. You know, God is beyond, but what it is true?
49:30
We'll just add a little bit more to that, and by saying that
49:35
a God that can be fully comprehended by finite creatures is no God at all.
49:39
Yeah, God who can be fully comprehended by finite creatures, it is
49:44
no God at all. You see the doctrine of the trinity. If they
49:46
come to you and say is it makes no sense? And I've heard people
49:49
do this all the time, right, it makes no sense to me.
49:53
Well, as I said, algebra makes no sense to kids. Doesn't mean
49:57
it's wrong, right, you know, So it's just means that you don't
50:00
get it, and it's okay. In order to say the Trinity is wrong,
50:02
you're gonna have to show logical problems with the trinity, and good luck
50:07
doing that, right, So I just say that leave it. Yeah.
50:10
Yeah, So remember his first statement, there's one God, and we mean
50:13
that by substance. One is in substance, one is one as not as
50:17
in numerical or quantity is substance, So that means the fact is God,
50:22
Jesus, God always pre is God. But they are three distinct persons.
50:25
They have different I guess they function differently. They they yeah, function differently
50:31
distinct persons. I think Noble Karashi is right when he says that if you
50:37
talk about who someone is, that is dealing with personality, right, persons.
50:42
If you deal with what, you're dealing with substance and being so Nobil
50:45
Karashi, the late Nobel said that God is one what and three? Who's
50:51
one? What? Three? Who's one? Substance? Three persons? You
50:54
can write it down. There could be. It still doesn't explain everything your
50:59
friend probably ask but it's a good way. One what three, Who's what?
51:04
Who? Who? You know? It's one more who? Missing?
51:07
Okay? Okay? Oh what okay for you gen z people? All right?
51:15
Cool? Where does the virt trinity come from? Its Bible? It
51:20
is a shot form like think of a like a shorthand of being able to
51:25
describe all that you just see in your screen. There's one God, the
51:30
fathers God, Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit is God. They're not
51:32
the same person. If you want to go around using that by all means
51:37
do that, but or you can just use the shorthand trinity. It was
51:39
first developed by I believe the Tullian, who used the Latin what trinitas uh
51:45
to describe what the Bible calls the trinity or what the Bible the doctrines that
51:51
the Bible teaches concerning God One, God, Father, God's Son, God,
51:53
Holy Spirit, God not the same person. Or have we got six
51:57
more minutes? Okay? Someone asks, can these lights be sheard? These
52:05
are your slights? Yeah? Yes, yeah, sure, Okay, it's
52:08
a bit messy in the next one, but sure, okay, cool.
52:12
So we'll put it up on our discod server under the sermon's sermon notes channel.
52:17
You can go grab it there. Okay, all right, cool.
52:22
B any Way, it's the same thing they have on their notes as well.
52:23
Yeah, but if they want it up shure. Yeah, okay,
52:28
great, Let's see what else is there? Six more minutes? Okay,
52:34
this is not related to the topic, but maybe it can lead to other
52:37
the coming weeks. So I thought maybe we would do that. Uh.
52:40
And it's quite a generic general question. Maybe it's to you because you're the
52:45
apologies. Are there any questions in apologetics that you have yet to figure out
52:53
or understand that mean's like with your usual experience, I mean learned all that
52:59
you learn. Are there still questions in the politics that you understand and don't
53:04
have answers to? What would that be? Far too many? Far too
53:07
many? When will Jesus come? What? Where do the Where do the
53:13
babies of unbelievers go? So I'm pretty certain where the babies of believers go
53:17
to. I think Scripture is quite clear on that that they are saved,
53:22
and so we see that in David when he lost his son, the other
53:24
places like that, the question of unbelieving children, the scripture is not clear.
53:29
That doesn't mean I don't have a guess, but I can't I can't
53:31
defend it. There are plenty of things in the Bible that I may not
53:36
get may not get a chance to concretely defend, but I may have guesses
53:39
about. And so one of the best, well it's not the easiest thing
53:44
to do, is to recognize that I don't need to understand all things.
53:47
All I need to understand is whatever he said, and to stick within that
53:52
boundaries of scripture. I think it was the reformer Calvin that said to confine
53:57
our inquiries within the limits of piety. I'll repeat that again, confine our
54:01
inquiries within the limits of piety. That is to say, what has God
54:05
revealed and what has it got to do with my spiritual life. If it's
54:08
going to be of use, I inquire, If not, I stop and
54:12
go no further. Yeah for me, you'll be. It kind of ties
54:16
in nicely to next week's topic as well. I think we can also ask
54:22
this question in a different way, which is like you know that famous question,
54:25
like if if you could ask God one question would really be like if
54:29
one day you meet God in heaven, like there will be the thing you
54:30
ask for me you'll be And I've written a paper on it and all that,
54:36
right, But it's got to do with the problem evil because it's personal,
54:39
because you know, many know our story. We were trying for a
54:43
baby for many years and we finally my wife finally got pregnant, but we
54:46
found out later on that she miscarried both babies, so we had a pair
54:51
of tweens. And I've never quite got the answer why God would do something
54:54
like this, And I know that probably is not the worst thing. You
54:58
know, there are family and people who face even greater evils, greater pain,
55:02
greater sufferings. I can't quite figure out, Like I know, God
55:07
is sovereign, and you know when we say good, by whose standard is
55:12
it good? Judas is scared for example, you know, like you know
55:15
the younger girl say sucks to be him, sucks to be him because he's
55:19
he's literally born to do that one thing to go betray Jesus. Is that
55:22
good or bad? Because on one hand, betrayal is bad. You know,
55:28
you send you send your your boss to the cross, it's all bad.
55:31
But he did what God call him to do. So isn't doing something
55:37
got us to do good? So what is good anyway? And I know
55:42
all that, but emotionally even intellectually, like why would God allow something like
55:49
that? So I don't know. When I get to heaven, I'll be
55:51
like God, first of all, where my babies are they here? Zion
55:57
is vacuute and sometimes have a argument says I love you. You're my firstborn
56:01
son, daddy. Technically I'm the third. So I'm like, oh,
56:08
he's aware, but that would be me like probably evil. And I'm looking
56:13
forward to next week because that's what we'll be talking about, Like how can
56:16
a God who's supposed to be all good, there's no bad, there's no
56:21
evil in him, allow war and pain and suffering and sickness. You know,
56:27
that's tough for me. I don't know if I'll ever find a sufficient,
56:32
satisfying answer. Not so if the answer will be satisfying. So yeah,
56:37
yeah, so yeah, it's a tough. Emotional problem of evil is
56:43
something that you cannot deal with on an intellectual level. The all of what
56:46
we deal with, I mean, it's you very well know, yeah,
56:50
is that we're trained to deal with the logical problem of evil, which essentially
56:52
amounts to an objection against God's goodness or his omnipotence. But it's the emotional
56:59
one that scriptures to mourn with those who mourn, you know, And so
57:00
that that's not something that we can do. I guess the only assurance we
57:05
have for all parents that have believers who have lost their loved one is Act
57:08
two thirty nine. This promise is for you and for your children also,
57:13
right, So I believe David was confident that his son or his child that
57:20
had passed on. He says he cannot go to me, but I will
57:22
go to him. That's a confident, that confidence that believers alone can have.
57:27
Now I'm not sure about the unbeliever, but that's something that the believing
57:30
parent can go. Sure, but it still doesn't you're right, it still
57:32
doesn't deal with the emotional question of why did it happen? Yeah, so
57:37
that's next week. Let's see, do you have time? Okay, some
57:44
quick ones. But the Bible says the Holy Spirit is in us? So
57:47
what about a father and son? So based on what we just talked about,
57:52
I love the Christian was waiting for this Christian to come. Yeah.
57:57
Well it goes down to the word Perry Core is right. You want to
58:00
explain that pass Andy? Or shall I do it for God? What?
58:07
Well? Perry crisis is this concept that deals with mutual indwelling and it's I
58:13
wish Christians knew more about this because if we understood this, friends, it
58:15
will change the way you worship. Right. Perry crisis deals with It's called
58:21
mutual in dwelling because because God is one being, although you are three persons,
58:27
the son would say the Father who is in me? And he also
58:31
says the Spirit who is in me? Spirit, the Lord is upon me?
58:36
Right, So the Spirit is in the sun and the Father is in
58:39
the Son. And then you also see that the Son is in the Father,
58:44
and that the Spirit is in the Father. And you also find that
58:45
the Son and the Father are both in the spirit. So there's a sense
58:49
of mutual indwelling between the Father, the Spirit, and the Son. So
58:53
that when you have Jesus well, Jesus says, I will be with you
58:58
always Matthew twenty eight twenty. That's the end of the Great Commission. And
59:00
then the Bible says, it's for your good that I go away, because
59:04
when I go, I send the Holy Spirit. Our friends say, chup
59:08
Jesus in me, or the Holy Spirit in me, and Jesus makes it
59:12
even more complicated. If you do my command John chapter sixteen. I think,
59:15
if you do my command, if you keep my commands, my Father
59:17
and I will come in and dwell with him. Now the Father is dwelling
59:22
with me, or the Spirit is dwelling with me or Jesus. In a
59:23
sense, the spirit is the medium that carries the present, that mediates the
59:30
presence of the Father and the Son. To the believer, I'll repeat that
59:34
again. The spirit is the medium or the means that mediates the presence of
59:40
the Son and the Father to the believer, because when the Spirit comes,
59:44
he is in dwelled by the Father and the Son. So even though Jesus
59:47
is glorified at the right hand of the Father today interceding for his people,
59:52
the Spirit in me carries the presence of Christ and the presence of the Father,
59:57
fulfilling the words of Christ you always, even to the end of the
1:00:01
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