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When Great Coaches Go Off Script: Lessons From the Session Room with Adam Landrum · The Ambitious Coach Lab

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Ambitious Coaching Lab, Powered by Ninety.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Cam Land.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: Each week we explore the real tactics, tough conversations, and breakthrough moments that drive coaching success.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: Let's jump into today's episode.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hello, friends.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: I am so excited to welcome Adam Landrum with us today.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Adam is a mutual friend that I met through Jamie Mullikan, who is a guest here.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Adam is the founder and an executive coach with Made to Matter.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so we have crossed paths quite a few times.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so when we were thinking about some guests for this season too, uh Jamie actually recommended, dude, you got to talk to Adam.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I reached out and uh just kind of went out and here we are.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: We're making it happen.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome to the show, Adam.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Excited to have you, man.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks, Cam.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to be here as well.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love that uh, you know, random strangers or random acquaintances come on the show.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, we're gonna impress the listeners a little bit more than just the random acquaintance.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: I have, I have no doubt of that.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: And uh many times we've interacted since we we met, it's been awesome.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like your content on LinkedIn and every time I've interacted with you, it's been great.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm excited to have you.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: But to kick it off, why don't you share a little bit for those that maybe don't know you as well, just a little bit about your journey to to starting Made to Matter and a little bit of the entrepreneurial journey as well.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I you know, I think I have a similar story to a lot of coaches.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that is that that you had a coaching experience at some some point in your life, and it was so powerful, so impactful that you're like, this is what I want to do.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's exactly, exactly what my path.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I founded an agency called Up and Up.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I ran that, grew it for 22 years.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am an entrepreneur at heart.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love entrepreneurs.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but I got I got coached um 10 years ago, and it it changed my life.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: It changed the trajectory of my company, and I was like, I am going to do this when I grow up.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I did.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I got two certificates, I got a certification in 2016 and then again in 2018, and I started coaching my management team.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want them to manage our people, I wanted them to coach our people.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had uh coaching clients on the side while I ran the agency, but I always knew this was the plan.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I sold that in 2023, and so I've been um coaching now for a little over uh two years, full time.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Very cool.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so during that time, that's where you met Jamie Mullikan.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: Is that right?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: Can you kind of tie that connection?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think Jamie told us a little bit, but I'd love to hear kind of your side of it too.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh Jamie, he was our VP of strategy and he was um my right-hand man, and we were we were doing uh EOS.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I needed an integrator.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: We probably had those roles backwards in hindsight.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if you know if people know Jamie, he's been he's been um labeled as a category seven hurricane.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so at that Azure integrator can be pretty disruptive, but um, he actually did uh a f after he wrecked everything, he did a fabulous job building it all back together.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and so you know, we became close friends and uh he was incredible while he was at Up and Up.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that's great.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Jamie's been a good um friend, ally.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: He uh I will never forget.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: We uh were sitting, this was the first time I was introducing him to my dad, just kind of being a connector.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Yeah, Cam is my queen bee.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like, what are you talking about?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: And uh he kind of elaborated that it was just a networking thing of just someone who's uh just the the queen bee in a hive, right?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it was funny.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: So that was one of the early uh memories with Jamie.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: So uh he's category seven's a great way to describe that, but um well, cool.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, as we kick off, um, really the the goal of this season is really opening things up on just really stories from the session room.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, you've worked with hundreds of of leadership teams and you've sat in lots of meetings over the years through the agency and then also with your coaching work.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: But can you tell me a little bit of just maybe some of the surprises or you know, things that happen inside the session room compared to maybe what you expected when you first started facilitating?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: What were some of the maybe just oh wow, that's interesting.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't think about that.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for the first thing that I'm always surprised about, and I don't know why I keep forgetting this, but I do, but that people are people.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, whether it was my leadership team, which is, you know, very impressive leaders and very competent people, or um, you know, we did higher ed, we focus on higher ed in the agency world, and it was you know, presidents of the university and the VPs of marketing enrollment, that type of thing, you know, executive level level people.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I'm now even I'm coaching a uh Fortune 500 uh COO.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they're just people, right?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you when you when you you can be all intimidated, I think, and like go in and like, oh my gosh, I'm dealing with a really impressive group of uh room here.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you get into it, you just realize, oh, you know what?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's they're they're like everybody else, and uh, you know, they're just people and and they're they're really looking to be guided.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're oftentimes those type of rooms are they're confident in themselves, but they're still looking for the guide and uh to uh to you know facilitate the process, whatever that may be.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, the I I feel like that's such an interesting dynamic, and I want to dive into that because I think that is in my experience, I have been very blessed and privileged to have some incredible coaches that have been in my life, whether that's through one-on-one type things or leadership team.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say I I don't know if I got lucky or just uh, but there is a level of emotional intelligence that is so critical when you're going into a session because you're right, you are dealing with humans.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so is that something that you feel like you have learned over time, or is that something that you kind of instinctively had?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: I I have this testable theory that this emotional intelligence is something that can obviously be developed.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I think there are things where we have to have the right mentality going in and understanding that, hey, this person that is a high powered leader is probably bringing baggage, maybe professional or personal, into the room.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: So how have you seen that play out or how have you kind of prepared for that mentally going into a session?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I have I I maybe we call it different things.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I from an EQ standpoint, I think I'm very average.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but from an intuition standpoint, um, I'm uh very high.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so so I would, yeah, I would, I would think what what what I learned over time was to trust my is to trust my gut.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm you know, Cam, I'm actually still learning that like every day.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like just trust your gut, trust your gut, trust your intuition.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Trust because it's it's knowing.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: What I how I would describe intuition is it's knowing without knowing.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know why I know that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I'm I know that that person or you know, that guy is having a tough time today.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, again, that may be called EQ, but it but I call the intuition.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so at you know, when I first started facilitating, like everything, you know, it was like super rigid and structured and and then um then I just learned this more to trust my intuition, go off script, go, yeah, like like, oh, I guess we're going over this is where the room's going, this is where the you know, and and just to just to trust it and follow it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: So uh Yeah, that's it's it's one of those things that I just I distinctly remember I was in a session and there was uh one of my teammates was just I mean, they were you could tell emotions were rising, right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was just getting a little heated, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I will never forget the coach that we were working with.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: He just called that out in a very loving way, just hey, you know, let's just call it Steve.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Steve, it looks like you're you're kind of upset about what was said a little while ago.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's bring that back out and let's open that up and let's figure out what needs to happen and what needs to be said, what needs to be dealt with, whatever it is.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: And the way that he just kind of weaved that in and acknowledged that that was, you know, there's clearly tension in the room and brought that in.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was just, it was just I and then after that was dealt with, you could tell the room was just back on track.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I think a rookie move would be to ignore, you know, that obvious thing that is happening.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh, you know, I love what that facilitator coach did, like just just name it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know, well, context.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know if I'd necessarily make the person unpack it right there, but but naming it, hey I can see you're a it seems like you're aiming whatever, um, is yeah, it's a powerful move.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it was at that point in the in the time we were, you know, a year and a half, two years in.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: We had pretty high trust on the team.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: So there was context, you know, as far as but um, but yeah, I mean, it was one of those, I I just never forgot that of I think you're right, it is so easy, especially as a newer facilitator coach, as you're in dealing with something, that'll work out.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't necessarily want to bring the elephant out in the room.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas actually sometimes that's probably the most powerful thing you can do.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, but can you talk a little bit about let's say, you know, a session that went completely off the rails?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what what's you know, something what tell us about what happened, how you responded.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, because that I feel like every coach has that one story of something that was just crazy.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: But can you tell us a little bit about, you know, just what happened and how you handled it?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I had that well, I certainly have had sessions that you know didn't go as as as good as I'd like to.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I have two, I have two examples.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're not huge dramatic ones, but the the first one, um, look since we're talking about feelings, yeah, um, is we had a guideline at at up and up.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that was um is you could cry at up and up.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was okay to cry.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, the yeah, the there's the saying, right, in business, like you know, check your personal stuff at the door.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like we didn't believe that.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's horrible.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's horrible advice.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now we didn't necessarily want you to come dump your baggage on the desk and like and you know, and gravel, grovel over it, but but um, but you could cry.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So so you could express sadness.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and expressing sadness uh might turn into liquid falling from your eyes, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so you know, we would have leadership team meetings where um, you know, someone would cry.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, and and sometimes I I guess maybe I'll I'll I'll contrast it to maybe somebody, uh a less experienced person was facilitating that meeting and like the whole meeting stops.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It gets derailed, like everything stops because the person is crying, like, oh my gosh, this is like Armageddon or DEF CON 5 or you know, whatever.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but a little bit back to your analogy, I was like, is like, you know, as coaches um know the the term of like, you know, uh one of the jobs of a facilitator is just is to hold the space.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: All right, just hold the space.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: That person's crying, something's going on.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably not they're probably not crying about leadership issue stuff.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that might trigger it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably something personal, it's probably something deeper.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just hold the space, acknowledge it.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, hey uh Tim, I you know, I see you're upset.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, when you're ready, and if there's anything you want to share with us, you know, um let us know.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: But we're you know we're gonna we'll we'll continue on when when you're ready to to move, to keep moving.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so so I I guess I've seen more potential.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: It could really go up the rails if if I were to overcompensate and or give way too much attention to what is a human experience.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And like so, maybe that's the lesson there is like when we're when we're facilitating coaching, like just to allow the human experience to happen.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that let's not make it such a big deal.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I think we tend to make it a big deal and come especially when we're doing this within inside companies.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's uh you you're managing human energy, and so that naturally is we can't compartmentalize, even if we try, there's still that holistic human being that's bringing all sorts of things.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so that is something that I think that's been a lesson learned for me over the last few years that you know it's easy to kind of think that, okay, hey, when we're in the session, it's gonna be just all business and we're able to kind of think through those things, but I can't factor in the you know, individual that's going through a nasty divorce at the time, and that might bleed into some of the high intense conversations that we have, or you know, whatever.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just obviously bringing an example, but it's it's one of those things that I think it is.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: The great facilitators are able to pick up on that.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you're right.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think it is intuition that that leads into that, um, where they are they're able to go into and read a room.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I uh did you have another example?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't want to jump, um, I didn't know if there was another one or if that was it.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I was just thinking of some things that we do.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So one of my certifications is in it's called conscious leadership.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um one of their agenda items is well, first of all, you get present before you start the meeting.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the second thing is like um what's here now.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: You speak to to factual things that are here now, like and it's how you're feeling.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: You you're the name your feelings, name what you're feeling, like in your like, you know, I feel my elbow on the chair, and then what your next thought is.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Those are facts.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's a you know, you can't argue those.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then um and so you so you get present.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then the the third thing is like do you need to clear anything?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any distractions?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any things going on that you need to let the table know about and uh or the room know about, right?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so anyway, it's just a it's it's a great way to s to really to set we call it setting the container.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because uh what sparked that thought was when you said, like, yeah, we pretend like we're a lot of times we're in petri dishes or we're in these completely sterile environments.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, people's lives are going on.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so let give them some space to sort of express what's happening, and then we can go, good, that's out there.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: We know it, it's named, great.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's move on and and start doing.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: We need to get it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because often, I mean, often as you just address it, it allows that everybody can breathe, you know, and then we can move on.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because it is hard.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you, when you're in a session, as a I'll just say as a leadership member or you know, just a team member on a team.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: If something is weird, I just I remember there's one where there was uh someone that was transitioning out and the new individual was in.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so there was a little bit of an overlap period.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: And there was a moment where the two were kind of like the old one was kind of attacking the new one, and it was just like you could tell everyone just wanted to crawl in a hole and die.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: It was just like, oh my gosh, this is so like you can cut it with you know a knife.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it got dealt with by by the facilitator in there, and it was just hey, let's get back on track here.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just we can all breathe now, that that tension's gone because you just you don't know what to do.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so you really need someone to address that.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: And oftentimes it is that third party that's maybe out of not as much emotion inside the business.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's I mean, that's the beauty of the facilitator, their objective.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, their objective, and they can referee those those instances.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I guess the other, Cam, the other one um off the rails, and again, this was a little bit more of a pattern.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we see this in leadership and power dynamics, but um, you know, we so we would we would go hold a strategy session with a a new client, uh, a university, and you and usually they're hiring us because they're a little bit in trouble, right?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Their enrollment's down and they're trying to grow enrollment.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but you know, we had instances where uh it'd be let's say it's a three or four hour session that we're facilitating, and the president shows up an hour late, um, is on their phone the whole time, texting, you know, not not paying attention, not present.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like, talk about an energy killer.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just from the top, there's no buy-in, right?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's and it's just like this isn't gonna work.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, we're doing brand for universities, and like brand, I mean, you gotta get everybody rolling in the same direction or brand is not gonna take so um, so you know, we've we experienced that once or twice or three times.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I was like, how do we, you know, uh maybe a more gifted facilitator could have dealt with that in the room.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um but this is more of an example of well, how do you how do you set set it up for success before the stretch before the meeting ever happens?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we started saying we started um again as a conscious leadership term uh um is building the container.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like what what's the what are the rules, what are the ground the you know the ground rules and how are we gonna show up?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and so oftentimes we would talk to the president and say, hey, look, this is really important what you're doing.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: We need you to be there, we need you to be present.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we would then start going to in these um meetings and say, you know, no phones, no computers, like no electric, we just need you focused.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and once we started doing that, that container got tighter.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore then it was uh a much better experience for everybody.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, those like I feel like objectives and and expectations, if you set those ahead of times, most humans are good enough, you know, to understand that, you know, obviously there are anomalies in certain situations, but like oftentimes it is.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I as a leader would appreciate that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I appreciate you letting me know.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, sure, could it be common sense that I shouldn't be on my phone or be an hour late?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, when you set that, okay, hey, we're going in with this specific tone, we're going in with the right mentality, that is a little subtle shift where, all right, hey, that's one of the things that I mean, you know, I've been in the EOS ecosystem for a long time.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: But that is something where objectives right at the beginning of meetings, hey, this is what we're gonna accomplish today.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: We kind of level set, make sure we're all on the same page of where we're going in this session or whatever it is, you kind of get that on the front end.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's really beneficial.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the yeah, setting those objectives is is is key, but also setting the expectations for what how we're gonna show up.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Setting the expectations for what behavior looks like in this container.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're not we're not walk, we're not coming in late.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're not, yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: I actually I I hold a um I do a a founders forum actually doing one tomorrow night with about eight founders.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh cool.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um the expectation has been, you can judge it if you want, but um on time is late, right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and early is on time.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we we end exactly at 7 p.m.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: We end like two uh the second.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like it and I facilitate it in that way, like I respect your time, but like two two intense hours.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna I like it drives me nuts when when facilitators stretch what could be done in two hours into four hours just because well, let's wait another five minutes for so and so to show up.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are we wait why are we waiting for the slacker?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you honor the people?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, don't get me going.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yo um but like building that container and it tight, I think people really appreciate it.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I don't know, that's also how I like to roll.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that I think that is something as a as someone who is was on a leadership team that worked with a facility.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: We implemented EOS, I will never forget how the first session went.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: It was we went in, literally the clock went like started the meeting.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, here's where we're going.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: Here's exactly the expectations of what it is.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm telling you, as a young, I think at that time I was in my like early 20s, which is insane looking back, but you know, you go back and okay, hey, wow, I felt that that elevated me just by being in proximity of that room and of him because it was here is the standard of where we're going.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that made me behave in a way that wanted to, you know, adhere to that of where we were going.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think it brought me up out of the you know early or uh late 20s, you know, cam that I was.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: And all right, hey, now let's actually get into we're moving forward, we're executing at a high level.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think it raises the room in a positive way when you have that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: But when so on one thing that I I want to uh touch on, it but you said something, it jogged something in my brain.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: So when you is there ever been a moment where you as a facilitator have gone in and asked a question that maybe opened up the room?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: That I think coaches are some of the best question askers.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: They're able to ask that timely question.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: So is there a time where you have gone through and maybe asked just something that unlocks something in someone's brain that just changed the trajectory of the way?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: The rest of the session went.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, you know, if you can't ask good questions as a coach, then you're you're not going to be a coach for very long.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um I have, I mean, I have a a couple basic ones.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: It it seems like it seems nuancy.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I was just listening to a podcast on copywriting um yesterday.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And there uh I forget the exact example, but there were they were, you know, um, especially like in direct direct mail and stuff like that, like copywriting is super, super important.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And they were they were getting into like, hey, the most the most common uh mistakes, you know, uh founders make, right?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and and then they're saying, hey, you know, that's gonna be average, that's gonna be mid.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like um the three common mistakes are these common mistakes.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you just put these in there, like that makes all the difference uh in the world.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes like we don't have to think of like, oh, what's a super provocative question that's just gonna really rock them.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: So here's like here's one question.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when you're facilitating, there's a big question of like what's next, like what like what's the new thing look like or where are we going?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so a simple question is uh that I have found very effective is oh, okay, you know, they say whatever they say, and I say, okay.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what is it that you really want?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you notice my intonation there too, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's not only just I put really in there, but like you know, it it went down, like it went down deep.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, like, no, what do you really want?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when pe when when you do that, people think, okay, yeah, all the BS aside, what is it that, yeah, what is it that I really want?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you can get a hundred percent of a different answer than what the whole the whole group think just gave you.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, so again, like if it's with the university, it's like, yeah, we want to, I I can't tell you how many times I heard this, we want to be the Stanford of the South or whatever.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, you're not gonna be the Stanford of the South South.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: But all right, so what do you really want?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, you know what we really want?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: We really want to impact our community, like within this 50 mile radius.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: But like, that's what we really want.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go do that.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like let's well let okay, good.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad to know what the truth is now.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go, let's go focus on that.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that um that just one word and changing how you ask it can make uh a huge difference.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's really good.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: My the the communication, uh, I studied that in my PhD, but I'm loving that because I think there's so many elements of communication, not just what you say, it's how you say it, right?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that's an age-old thing that we all know, but it's so true.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the timeliness as well of all right, sure, you could come in and I could give you what I think, but if I can get you and ask a question in a way, use the right tone to get you all to come to the conclusion you're gonna get buy-in with your team probably faster than me just telling you what it is.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: Is that something that you learned over time, or do you feel like you had a pretty good grasp on that just based on experience, kind of transitioning into coaching, where that that you know, dynamic of telling what to do versus asking a question, like that balance of that.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Does if that does that make sense?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it totally does.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think early in my career, I was definitely a teller.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: I not that I was the smartest one in the room.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I it was it was my company and it was my, you know, it was my uh the downside was all me.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when we when you own a company, the you share the upside, but you you pretty much eat the downside.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but over time, and even when I got coached, I was like, oh my gosh, the power of people coming to their own conclusions is a thousand times more effective than if I tell them what the answer is, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you find out often it their answer is better than what my answer would have been.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: So like it just, yeah, it's I I love I love the coaching modality because that that in and of itself is the power right there.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: Elaborate what you mean.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: I want to make sure I capture that uh from the coaching modality.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: What do you uh what do I want to make sure I understand what you mean by that?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so you know, there's there's therapy.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm gonna, I'll, I'll, I'll very broad brushes here.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, right.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're broken, you need to be fixed, right?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So therapists will help you do that.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um mentor is, hey, this is how I've done it, so this is how you should do it.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: A consultant is I'm the expert.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is how you do it.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: A coach is a coach goes, hey, you know what?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know the answer.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think deep down inside you actually have the answer.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna ask questions to help uncover that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so like people will say, I need clarity or I need to figure XYZ out.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, I I think you probably already, you already know that.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: You just need help articulating it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm gonna ask you questions and watch what happens.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna articulate it and and and so I, you know, I see it almost every day.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have coaches, I get coached, and I see it, I hear it coming out of my mouth, and I go, oh, that's awesome.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: That was all like locked in there.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: So like coaching just like unf just frees all that.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's the that's the difference in modalities.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And those, yeah.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to be clear, like, I'm not saying coaching is better than those modalities.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're it's they're just a different tool.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you use those modalities for different reasons.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, 100%.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: I've used all of those.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there are certain times where yeah, you do need to bring an expert in.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: You do need to get, you know, understand up from an industry or whatever.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Or yeah, there are times, many times, still many times, that I need a therapist.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, so I mean, there's all sorts of every lane is important, and we're gonna spend time in each lane at some point probably in our life.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I appreciate you sharing that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great uh kind of overall unlock.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you're right.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think there is so even, I mean, you could probably go it across even step into the therapist angle, but since we're talking about coaches here, there are, I would say the most impactful times of growth in my life has been from a one-on-one conversation where somebody has asked me a question that has helped me unjumble whatever's in here or in here and get it out.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh, wow, that was in there.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: Man, I would never have come to that conclusion had you not asked me or guided me there.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so, and I think so many leadership teams probably feel that way too, because they're like, hey, you I mean, it's not complicated to run a good business, right?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's just we get so jumbled in, we get into the chaos and all these things.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes you need a coach to just help you get a path out.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I appreciate you sharing that.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: You bet.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: So, on um as you've worked with with teams and and leaders, what are some of the the patterns that you see in just whether it's teams working together that they maybe don't realize, maybe they're blind to, what are some of those things that you've started to see over time that maybe are missed, maybe until they get into a coaching relationship?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I I think the let's see, the biggest thing that I am seeing in teams and and individuals, um especially from the founder and leadership group aspect, is um they they trust that as a coach I can do what I can what what I say I can do.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't think there's a lot of like uh I don't know this guy's you know selling snake oil.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think they they believe that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: What they don't believe, what they've been struggling to believe, is can they do it?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can they, you know, do they have what it takes or did the discipline or or what and that's the scary part, right?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of like hiring a personal trainer.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: You trust the personal trainer knows what they're doing.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: They can tell you, they can give you the exercises, they can hold you accountable, they can tell you to show up.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: But do you have the willpower and the you know change your habits and you know do all that stuff to do it?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's a pretty big ticket item, you know, you're probably not gonna plop down the money because you you have less faith in yourself than you do in the um in the provider.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So so I so I've been so I I've I've seen this in the last four prospective clients that I've talked to.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, wow, this is this is really interesting.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it reminds me, you know, the new Ted Lasso uh is out.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't seen it, I haven't seen it, so don't no spoilers.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I haven't either.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't realize it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: I knew it was coming out, I didn't realize it was out yet.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: So great.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for letting me know.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta watch it.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think, I think it's gone.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: And but if not, it's coming to the screen near you.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, they of course they have the yellow believe, right?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Above the the door.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so we've seen that in so many sporting sports movies, right?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like the coach gets the team, it's like crucial.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: They gotta believe in themselves.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't believe in themselves, they're not going to, they're just not gonna rise to the challenge.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so long, long answered your question is is I I think a leader, a coach, a facilitator's job is to is to get the people to first believe in themselves that yes, that they can do this.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: They can do it.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, what what's the there's the famous quote by the uh who said, you know, it's it's not blah, blah, blah, who's gonna change the world.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a small group of people who's gonna change the world, right?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's like should be like the the coach and facilitators mantra leaders mantra.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that this small team is gonna make the change, but we got to believe that we can actually do it.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's fascinating because I think you're spot on, and I've never thought about this before.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: Because one of the things that we talk about, there are different competencies of being a great coach that we talk about a lot on this show, right?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, you gotta be clear on your vision of why you do what you do, you gotta be got to get a clear offering, you gotta be able to go do business development, and that's what I'm leaning into right here.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm wondering, because based on, you know, all right, the last four perspective clients that you've worked with, is there something that if you see that maybe they lack that belief part, is that something that you're is is an automatic red flag, like, nope, not gonna work with them?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: Is that a conversation where you challenge in that perspective bus business development conversation?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how do you handle that as someone who kind of picks up on that?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: That, oh, I don't know if they're gonna believe, which then is gonna lead to just a tougher engagement, if you will.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is this is super fresh, and this is uh, so I I can share what I'm what I'm doing now.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I just I just signed one of those clients.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: So what I did is I went back and I reworked my offer.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um, my offer is uh is 12 months of coaching.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And my belief is like you have to commit for a year.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like the work that we're doing, it's it's not a magic bullet.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're not it's right.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Will you see results uh quickly?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yes, you probably will.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: But there are there's also gonna be a trough where you don't see results, and people will bail during that trough, and they're gonna they're bailing on the right before the upside of what's gonna happen, right?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't curve.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you just gotta stick, you gotta stick with it.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think any transformational, and I I feel like I'm doing transformational work with with founders.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: So any transformational work, like there's gonna be tests, there's gonna be the hard times, there's gonna be the stuff where you got it's not gonna be mountaintop the whole time.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I want, long story short, I want my clients, or I'm only gonna work with clients who are gonna be in it for the long term.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now I get it.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a if you're a founder, uh a prospective client and a coach, and that's their pitch to you, you're like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't know if this is gonna work.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like and and I and and I don't believe myself.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: So what I did is I designed the first 90 days to be more intensive, more um, more of us interacting with the new client to help, to help them start developing those habits and those routines.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like, and just for me, with with founders, the the number one thing that I see with founders is they don't have the discipline or the mindset to work on the business.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: The uh if any money opportunity comes, whether that's in a client or a new uh prospective client, they will drop everything and go after that.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I so I'm training them, if you will, coaching them to be like, no, working on the business is your highest priority.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do not sacrifice, prioritize that, do not sacrifice that time.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta get in the habit.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the first 90 days, I help them get in that habit.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's how I redesign my services, and then they can cancel at 90 days, they can be like, no, this isn't working for me.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um so that's how I'm addressing that.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's really good because I think that's such a an important thing to talk about because if it is, you don't necessarily want to go into engagements that are doomed from the start, right?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and so I appreciate you sharing a little bit of that context because I think that business development is the lifeblood of a business coach, a consultant, fractional executive.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, therapy, like you know, you name it on the modalities that you talked about earlier.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's that's the lifeblood.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: But since we're talking specifically to coaches here, yeah, if you can't business develop, good luck.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: You might not be in the right path.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think it was life, but but I I I think integrity is a big part of your offer too.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by integrity is is you know, aligned.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is it aligned with what you believe?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, you know, what I said is like I really believe it's not a gimmick.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like you got this is a long-term deal.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: And like I'd actually I would actually say I I bet my average, again, I'm I'm I'm early in my coaching career, but I bet my average is gonna be like a three-year engagement.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I bet that's that's what I anticipate happening.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and basic basically they have well have graduated and like are they're well on their way to you know doing what they they want to do.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, so I think some coaches sell like you know six six session packages or and like if that if that fits with your your point of view and how what you think is best for the client, then then great.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: But um I I think I do think you have to align it and and and so basically what I'm saying is like, hey, founders have a confidence problem.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we're talking because things haven't worked out as they thought they should or could yet.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a confidence problem.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like, man, if you don't solve the confidence problem, you you're not gonna be able to help them.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just going back to that sports analogy.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: If the coach doesn't get them to believe, the team's not gonna do it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna accidentally win.
• 37:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta believe you can win.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I like the approach, especially with the the example that you gave of all right, we're gonna adjust that first 90 days and we're gonna lean into some of these things and make sure we get the, I mean, I guess you could call it the foundation set correctly that will lead to the rest of the engagement being successful.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: So Yeah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it also also came in the sales conversation, right?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: So like uh every coach probably has answers to for objections to price.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, do you have an answer for an objection to low confidence?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, I I didn't anticipate that was a that was a a major thing.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm thinking, oh my god, oh, okay.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have so now in that sales conversation, it's like, hey, let's talk about, you know, believing in yourself.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about your self-confidence, let's talk about, you know, your your willpower, you know, whatever that is.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm going to address that now pretty, pretty straight on instead of you know acting like that's not a thing.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: It is a thing, a huge thing.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you, that's that's a a whole unlock for me because that I mean, in you know 35 plus conversations on this this show, and I've probably had thousands of conversations with business coaches over the last five years, and not a single time has that come up.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I guarantee you that is something that is dealt with all the time.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's almost uh, you know, price, yeah, sure, you kind of figure that one out.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: But this is a this is a much deeper, you know, personal um belief is such a almost a subjective, because of what does that mean to each individual?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a really important thing.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: I know I'm I've got to think through that of just how would I deal with that, you know, with people that I interact with.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's a I appreciate you sharing.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: For where my brain's going on on this is say there's a newer coach that maybe just became certified and, you know, whatever framework.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they're about to go into a you know session that, you know, they've got to lead their first session.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: What's maybe a mindset that you would recommend that they go in with into that that first session that they got to get under their belt?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, probably drawn from some things I've said is is you know, the first of all, just you know, there's uh advice for speakers to uh picture your audience in their underwear.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I would do that, but a lot of along those lines of like just recognize that they're people.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you don't, you don't have to be an you're not the expert.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to be the expert.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like an aside, people will be like, well, have you ever helped uh, you know, uh a poultry farm before?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, whatever.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm like, no, I've never done poultry, but I know how to coach.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a coach, right?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so you don't have to be the subject matter matter expert.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as a facilitator going in or coach going into it, use your tools, use your skills, facilitate, coach.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah don't don't get freaked out by whatever the the subject matter is.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, and then the the third thing, maybe I'd be overloading them by now, but it's like, you know, hey, I would um set the container up front.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I believe this in sales, I believe this is as a professional service, I believe this as a coach.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're driving the bus.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: The client is not driving the bus.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the moment you let the client start driving the bus, you're done.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're gone.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's over.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if you're if you walk, maybe we go back to the believe thing, Cam.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you walk in that room and they see that you're not confident, like you don't, you you're not controlling the room, you don't have or you know, not controlling, but command of the room.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of leaders will sense weak leaders and they will start taking over.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you gotta you gotta like psych yourself up before you walk in that room and like you own it um in your way.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: What however that looks.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mean it means domineering, but like you're coming in confidently.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: So and and give yourself grace.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be the other thing I'd say is like it's gonna take you a while to to be to get good.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you you weren't uh regardless of what your parents told you that you were born perfect, you're not.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it might take a while to get good.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: So learn from your mistakes and build that confidence so that one day you do walk in that room and and you do own it.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a good word, man.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: It it really um there's a a level of one of the last competencies that we talk about in kind of the series.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: So you've got vision, offering, business development, practice management.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then the last one is mastery.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you have showcased a lot of of this in just this conversation, but I think the best coaches had this just lifelong pursuit of mastery.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you have even referenced you have certifications in some of these frameworks to help you be a better coach that you can pull from.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: It just gives your tool belt, your arsenal, whatever you want to call it.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: You've just got more that you can pull from.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think those types of coaches are those ones that are hungry for getting better and going and putting the reps in and understanding that this is a journey and I'm gonna continue to better myself every single day.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I appreciate you you sharing that and I appreciate this conversation.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: I I always like to ask guests two questions kind of on the tail end.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: So the first question is a little bit more reflective.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: So let's say you are looking back at rookie Adam with all the knowledge and experience that you have now.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: What advice would you tell your rookie coach Adam self?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think the b what would I tell rookie coach Adam?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm looking at it may maybe from the business standpoint, but um the the coaching the business coaching standpoint, I would say hey Adam, it it it's this is not you're you're not gonna build Rome in a day or whatever that Yeah, it's this is gonna take time.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say give yourself, Adam, give yourself three years to get your business up and running.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's from a business standpoint.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm and I'm seeing that with my clients too.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: I just met with a client yesterday.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: We looked at his pro forma.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's wrapping up year two.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be decent.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna make money.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Year three is okay.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Year four, it starts blowing out of the water.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like he starts to hit scale.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like so my I I think my theory of like a solid give yourself a solid three years is is um is pretty accurate.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um from the from the coaching standpoint, um, I I think I'd just go back to trust your gut.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like that would be like it with your strengths, whatever your whatever your strengths are, like, man, use them and trust them in coaching.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um I can't tell you how many times where I like I have a weird question pop in my head or a weird feeling of like, you know, something I should pursue.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I'll dismiss that, um, but sometimes I don't.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times I don't, and I and it just takes it just takes the client a completely different way, and they have a completely different insight.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad um that I that I trusted that.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a good word.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I love that.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's really good.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's really relevant too.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like a lot of people.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: The second question I always like to ask is what's a lesson you're in the middle of learning in this current moment?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I you know, maybe I just I just said too much uh earlier because the the big the big aha for me is like confidence is bigger than you think um in people and um and helping them um it you know I I have uh I have four kids, a wife, and like I just see these beautiful humans who can who can do so much and it's so hard.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you you gotta be careful, like if you tell them they can do whatever, like then, you know, I think um we've we've you know parents have maybe wrecked millennials or Gen Z by telling them they could be whatever, and then like their expectations is like uh that's unachievable, like it's overwhelming, right?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: So right now it's like, okay, well, how not to make that mistake again?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and how do I take my client, prospective client, help them help them realize yes, they can do this, but not build it up so big that they get paralyzed um in doing it.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and by the way, you know, any anything you spot, you can have advice for yourself.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, you know, so there could be um there could be where parts in me where I need to build up my confidence where I might um might not have it.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's good.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: I I that's a good word.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Adam, man, this has been awesome.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you you coming on.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say someone is curious and wants to get in touch with you, maybe learn more about you, pick your brain on things.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what's the best place to get in touch with you?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um the probably the easiest is Adam Landrum um on uh LinkedIn.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh made to matter.coach.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: So made to matter.coach, you can contact me there and see more about my my services and what I do for coaching founders.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'll link out to all that here in the show notes.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: But man, thank you for coming on.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm glad our paths have crossed.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um I have learned a lot from you even before this conversation, but um, I really appreciate you sharing and kind of opening up things here.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: So um, well, cool.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you for for coming on, and uh, we will be there here in uh a little bit.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: We'll have new episodes coming out here shortly.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: Take care.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, K.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's it for today's episode of the Ambitious Coach Lab.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: My hope is that something here helps you sharpen your craft and keep building a coaching practice you're proud of.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: Before we wrap, a quick thank you to our sponsor, 90.
• 48:00
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• 48:06
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• 48:10
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• 48:17
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• 48:24
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• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: Again, that's AC20 for 20% off.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for hanging out with me today.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Cam.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: Cheering you on as you grow your ambitious coaching practice.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see you next time.