Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S6 E15 _ Frozen Fear_ The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen Part 11

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S6 E15 _ Frozen Fear_ The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen Part 11 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime and One Time. I'm Terrie and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm Mama. Tonight we are uncorking the truth one of
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the darkest crimes and breaking it down together with you.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: One case, one conversation, and one or maybe two glasses
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: of wine. It's the job. It's time to get comfortable
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: and double check those locks before we just started, So
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: let's take a sip and dive in. Hello everyone, Hello,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of True Crime in One Time.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: It's just Slama tonight. That's right, the lovely Terry True
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Crime could not be with us tonight. I know her
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: and I are just rotating back and forth, but that's okay.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: The show must go on on, whether it's with me
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: or what. It's just her. We're making it happen because
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: we are all most done with this Robert Hanson nonsense.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: So hope everyone's having a happy Tuesday. I know I've
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: had a pretty good day. The weather was nice here.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: It felt like spring. Oh it's so nice to not
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: be in winter mode anymore. I feel like it's happening.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: It's happening. Hello, Pam, Hello, good evening to you. That's right.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Please before we begin, if you're watching us, on YouTube.
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• 1:41
  Speaker 1: know that we're live right now and that they should
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: probably come hear this story that is infuriating, infuriating. Hello lady, Hello, up,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you're doing well and to Reesie, a lovely to see you.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I love it. Everybody gather on in around the ca
• 2:00
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• 2:01
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  Speaker 1: pod get noticed. Also, speaking of getting noticed, the lovely
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Terry True Crime informed me that for our podcast, apparently
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: we have friends in Australia who have been listening to
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: our Robert Hanson story and that's really awesome. So hello,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Ozzie friends, Welcome, Welcome, it's a crazy story. Indeed, Hello,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: buff Hello, I know you can help ruin this show
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: too well, you know what, Australia doesn't seem to think.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: We're too hard to listen to anyway. So tonight is
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: part eleven of our Frozen Fear the Butcher Baker of
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Alaska series, where we are diving deep into infamous serial
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: killer Robert Hanson, his endless number of victims who we
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: refuse to let be forgotten, and how all of it
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: could have been stopped numerous times, and is of our
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: opinion that the state of Alaska has a lot of
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: blood on their hands and we are here to shine
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a light on all of it. So warning there will
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: be rants and there will be cursey words. I can
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: pretty much promise you that now you know I think
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: that this story. The reason why we chose to extend
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: it is because generally, when you hear the story about
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Robert Hanson, you hear about his seventeen murder victims, it
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: makes it sound like everything was taken place in the eighties,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: and then you find out that there was a whole
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: lot of shit going on in the seventies and that
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: he probably just should have been locked up the whole time,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: but depended on words of respectable people or parole officers
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: being like, well, he has a job in a family,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: and so then a bunch of women die because of it.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: And so that's why we extended this story, because there's
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: really a lot more to it than what I was
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: led to believe, honestly, So I can't wait. You can
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: ran at the wall. She does, Buffy does, Hello, Hello, welcome, welcome,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: well for the show tonight. I told you all I
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: was going to buy a bottle of vodka for this
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: whole series, and I have just enough left for tonight
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: and tomorrow. So I am drinking my speeda spedas Bedka
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: set sv Da Speta with seven up in orange juice.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: So that's going to take me to a very good
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: place tonight. Now, with that, let's just go right ahead
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: and get in to tonight's Sorry with a brief little recap.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: So we've watched the mask of sanity slowly slip from
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the face of Robert Hanson. We saw him, now, I'm sorry.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: We saw how a stuttering, mild manner baker from Old
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Harbor Road managed to live a double life for over
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: a decade. He was a pillar of the community by
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: day and a calculated predator of the Alaskan bush by night. Now,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the investigation reached its boiling point with the recovery of
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the aviation death map, featuring twenty four chilling X marks,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and we witnessed the incredible resilience of Cindy Paulson, the
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: teenager who broke the cycle of violence by rolling out
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: of a car, and her subsequent transformation from a strung
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: out street kid to a scuokum. That's our new Alaska
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: and word we've learned star witness protected by a Christian
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: safe house. In this final chapter, we go beyond the arrest.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: We're heading back into the interrogation room to hear the
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: words that the world thought it would never hear. And
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I am going to have some rants just to let
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: you know, oh my well, still no vida yeah, no
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: vita tequila here? No no, no, no, no, no, yes.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I think it will be prepared, because honestly, this whole
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: confession that's what we're going to hear tonight, is annoying
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: as shit. So prepare yourselves, everybody. Now, the legal fortress
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Robert Hanson had built around himself was beginning to implode,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: and his defense was rapidly crumbling under the weight of
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: forensic reality. Hanson's attorneys, Fred Dewey and Joe Evans had
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: gone to bat for him, and they hadn't just performed
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: a mechanical legal defense. They genuinely believed in the meet Baker.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: And if you're wondering, because I know you probably are,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I believe that they are court appointed. He did not
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: pay for these lawyers. Now, they had publicly called the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: charges ridiculous and even defended him against murder rumors before
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: he was even charged. So convinced were they of his innocence,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't like they really did think that it
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: wasn't you know, all defense lawyers are going to be like,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: my client denies doing those things. As a defense attorney
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: should it's exactly what you do. But as you'll learn
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: later on, they were very surprised to find out who
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: their client was. But as the troopers laid out the evidence,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: the jewelry in the attic, the ballistics from the many
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: fourteen and the twenty four X marks, the lawyers were
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: starting to realize the truth. Like the neighbors, the church goers,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: and the insurance agents before them, two had been victims
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: of Hanson's mini mask. He hadn't just lied to the police.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: He had weaponized his own legal teams trust to facilitate
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: his escape and listen, he's been through the system numerous
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: times now with basically he'd be sent to prison or
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: be negotiated. He'd get out six months or be let
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: off completely. So why would he want to show all
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: of his cards when he had all the reason to
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: be like, I don't have to say all the things.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: It's fine now. The final crushing blow came from the friends,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: who had provided his alibi for months. The word of
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: these well respected men had been the primary reason Cindy
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Poulsen's testimony was questioned. They were the shield that allowed
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Hansen to claim he was just having pizzas and beers
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: while Cindy was chained to a post in his basement.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Oh we know the Johns, right, that's their names, the Johns.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Not a fan of them. Hello, Kelly, Hello, Hello, welcome,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Hi Lady and Gray. Nice to see you. Hope you're
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: doing well. However, when the state troopers brought these men
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: into the interrogation room, the loyalty vanished. Faced with the
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: physical proof of a serial killer's trophies, the friends broke.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: They confess that they had lied to the authorities about
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Hanson's whereabouts on the night of June thirteenth. Now, while
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Hanson was finally exposed, the men who paved his way
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: to freedom numerous times, the ones who lied to protect
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: a predator and discredit a traumatized seventeen year old faced
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: no legal consequences. And it wasn't the first time or
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the first girl at the Johns gave alibis for Roberts.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I have my suspicions about them. They are not good people,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: and it kind of pisses me off that they weren't
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: charged with anything, obstruction of justice, lying to the police, nothing,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: But then again, we aren't talking about Alaska, and they're like,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the only reason why any of this is happening is
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: because they couldn't turn their head anymore like they had
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: done for the last thirteen years, because otherwise I feel
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: like they probably would have Now, as I said, there's
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: no record of these friends ever being charged with obstruction
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: of justice or perjury. They provided the cover that allowed
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: a killer to remain at large, and when the truth
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: became too ugly to ignore, they simply walked away back
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: into their respectable lives, leaving the wreckage of Hanson's victims
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: behind him. Now, Robert Hanson was now truly alone, no alibi,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: no reputation, and no way out. The meek Baker was
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: gone and the butcher was all that remained. Oh gosh,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: those guys. I hate those guys so much now. On
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: February sixteenth, nineteen eighty four, the call from District Attorney
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Frank Rothschild to Sergeant Flathe carried an unmistakable tone of victory.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Hanson's attorney, Fred Dewey, said, Hanson has had a change
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: of heart and wanted to clear the decks. He was
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: ready to talk, but he wanted to do it on
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: his own terms, after a consultation with his priest, and
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: within the secure confines of the District Attorney's office where
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't have to see the recording equipment that would
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: capture his downfall. I don't see why talking to a
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: priest is going to help him out any because it
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: did it, and it didn't change how he talked about
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: things either. I think that this is just Hanson's last
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: attempt to exert control, because, as we've learned about him,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: like that's his most important thing is being in control.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: And you know, overpowering the situation. So of course he's
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: going to do it in these vital moments now, As
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: is common with high stakes confession, the meek baker got
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: cold feet. Of course he did. On February seventeenth, the
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: interview was abruptly postponed. Hanson wanted the weekend to think
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: it over, like why do you really need that? So
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Roth's child and Flothy spent the interm sharpening their leverage.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: They knew Hanson was looking for a deal, but they
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: weren't interested in half truth. Flothy's strategies, suggested by investigator
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Walter Gilmore, was blunt quote, if he balks, tell him
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: that come summer, we'll charge him with murder every time
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: we dig up another body. So the deal was struck
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: not out of a sudden onset of conscience, no no,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: no no, but instead out of a predator's calculated fear.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: On the morning of his twelve hour marathon confession, Robert
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Hanson presented a list of demands that revealed a man
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: terrified of the very world he had spent a decade terrorizing.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: And this is you, guys. Eyes are just going to
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, the audacity, the audacity of
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: some of these things that he says, excuse me. See, so,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Hansen said he would plead guilty to the four murders
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the state could already prove with forensic certainty, that being
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Sherry Morrow, Joanna Messina, Paula Goulding Goulding Sorry, and the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: still unidentified at Kolutna Annie. In exchange for the locations
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: of his other victims and to guide a guide to
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: the X marks on his map, Hanson demanded two things,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: a total media blackout and a permanent transfer to a
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: federal prison outside of Alaska. The man who had spent
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: years hunting women in the wilderness was now the one
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: who felt hunted. Oh poor poor Robert. Oh no, poor Bob.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Are people going to be mean to you and mad
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: at you? You're such a stand up guide. Though Hanson's
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: primary motivation for the plea was a desperate, paranoid attempt
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: to protect his family and himself, he was convinced that
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: many of his victims, whom he primarily targeted from the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Avenue we're connected to organized crime, specifically motorcycle gangs like
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: the brothers quote, they're the girlfriends and so forth of
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the motorcycle gangs. His family is going to disappear. My
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: little daughter is just not going to come home. She
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: might show up three years later as some animal digs
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: her out of the of Nick River someplace. That's what
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: he said. Now, I have the utmost Listen, his wife
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and kids have nothing to do with anything, and I
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: do think they should be protected at all costs, and
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't retaliate against somebody's family at all. But for
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: him to be like, well, what about my daughter, what
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: if this happens to her, with like zero regards that
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: literally every single woman was somebody's daughter, just just rubs
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: me the wrong way, like how Dario. In a moment
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: of chilling self awareness, Hanson admitted, quote, I know there's
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: nothing they can do to me, and that I don't deserve.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Yet he weaponized the safety of his wife, Darla and
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: their children to secure his deal. He demanded that the
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: state provide a secure apartment for Darla while she prepared
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: to flee Alaska forever, and as part of the bargain,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Hanson would have to get into a helicopter with Sergeant
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Flafe and Sergeant Gallion to point out the grave sites
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: from the air. A macabre reenactment of his hunting trips.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Got I would not want to be on the helicopter. Ooh,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: talk about creepy. Don't love it? Hi, Hi, Laura, Hope
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: you're doing well. He is scum. He is to just
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: to just say that is grossy. That means he knows
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: how wrong it was. I know the audacity, right, Hi speedy,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Hope you're doing well tonight Bay now. On the morning
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: of February twenty second in nineteen eighty four, the state's
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: legal heavyweights Victor Crumb, yes you heard that name correctly,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Harry Potter, fans, Victor Crumb, and Frank Rothschild prepared to
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: sit across from Robert Anson for a marathon session that
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: would last twelve grueling hours over two days. And the
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: prosecution wasn't walking into this blind. Thanks to consultations with
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: the FBI's behavioral experts, they knew exactly how a man
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: like Hanson operated. Serial Killers often treat confessions like a
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: final business transaction, admit to the crimes they know the
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: police can prove, and then abruptly stop, hoping to keep
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: a few trophies for themselves. And that's usually how it goes,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: unless you got somebody with a really really wild ego,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: but even then they're usually filled with half truths. Well, Ada,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Rothschild says, quote, if he was able to walk away
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: not having confessed to other cases, then he would walk
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: away a winner and would have beaten the system. Again,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: he's not wrong. So to break the cycle, Rothschild took
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: on a difficult role as the empathetic listener. No matter
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: how stomach turning, Hanson's descriptions became the stalking, the terrorizing.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: The final moments in the bush, Rothschild would talk with
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and remain entirely neutral with him. And I don't know
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: how people do that in especially cases like these, because
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Robert Hanson says some shit that I would have called
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: him out on for sure and been like, cut the
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: bullshits are okay, don't know, and that's why I'm not
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: one of these people at all. Now. At exactly eight
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: forty six a m. The room went quiet as the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: official interview was initiated. Present were Sergeant Flothey and Hogspin,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Lieutenant gent Trooper von Klassen, and the full legal teams
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: for both sides, and the session began with the formal
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: reading of the agreement of understanding. It laid out the immunity,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the transfer request, and the waiver of rights. Hansen sat
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: there with his lawyers, Dewey and Evans, listening to the
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: legal definitions of his own surrender. He knew the police
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: had his maps, and he knew that they had his guns,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: and he knew they had trash his alibies. He really
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: had no choice at this point, and honestly, I think
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: he just didn't really want the media at all around,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: which is interesting, but that's the only reason he did
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: this in my opinion. Now, the twelve hour session began
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: with the case that finally brought the meek Baker to
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: his knees, Cindy Paulson. Robert Hanson leaned into the microphone
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: and began to minimize pretty much everything, to the surprise
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: of none of us, because of course he did. Even
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: while admitting to the crimes of kidnapping and rape, he
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: attempted to edit the narrative to make himself appear less predatory,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: because don't forget, guys, he is a really nice guy. Okay,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: They're just misunderstandings, they're just deals that go wrong. I'm
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: a family person, I'm a baker. I'm not a bad guy.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Not me as I'm sitting here, you know, trying to
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: confess to four murders and horror, horrible atrocities. I'm not
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: that bad, guys. So he flatly contradicted Cindy's terrifying account
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: of the abduction. While she remembered a man sticking a
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: three p fifty seven magnum to her head in the car,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Hanson claimed he only brought the gun out once they
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: were safely inside the home. Just so you guys get
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: that right. He only brought it out when they were inside.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: He would never do that in the car to get
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: them in the car, like he did with so many
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: other women already, So you never would never do that.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: In his mind, this made the act somehow less violent,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: like it was some mere domestic disagreement rather than a
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: life threatening abduction. And I think the most chilling part
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: of his initial confession was Hanson's explanation for why he
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: was taking Cindy to the airport to fly her into
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the wilderness. To the troopers, this was the precursor to
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: a murder, and I agree it was exactly to take
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: her out there to murder her. It was the same
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: pattern he had used for Sherry Morrow and Joanna Messina,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: But Hansen said he just wanted more time with her,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: that's all, guys. I was just gonna, you know, take
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: her hand cuffed. I know I kidnapped her. I know
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I raped her. I know that I have her in
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: handcuffs and I'm about to take on the plane. But
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: it's just because I wanted to spend more time with her,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: not because I wanted to murder her. Like how does
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: how did he think this was going to make him
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: sound better? I don't. I don't understand. What a guy
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I know, right, what a swell guy? I love it.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: So he painted himself as a lonely man who simply
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: wanted companionship. You know, I had a wife, and ignoring
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: the fact that his companion was a terrified seventeen year
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: old girl. Remember he's forty four years old at this time.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: She's seventeen years old who had been chained to a
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: post in his basement. But he's not a monster, guise now,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Da Rothschild and Sergeant Flothey sat in silence, playing the
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: roles perfectly. They didn't challenge his more time narrative, and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: they knew that if they called him a liar. Now
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: the faucet of information would turn off. And they're right.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: And that's why I'm not an investigator or a prosecutor
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: at all, because I'd have been like, you're lying. So
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: they let him believe they were buying his story, that
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: he was just a misunderstood man who just got carried
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: away as men do. Ridiculous and by letting Hansen minimize
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the Cindy Paulson case, they were lulling him into a
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: false sense of security. Right. They were waiting for him
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: to get comfortable enough to talk about the women who
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: hadn't escaped, the ones who didn't get more time but
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: instead got a shallow grave. Now, as the confession went on,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: a new, even more disturbing layer of Robert Hanson's psychology emerged.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Hanson revealed to Frank Rosschild that he had grown tired
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: of the logistical difficulties of flying women into the bush.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I know, gosh, why has it got to be so
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: hard and complicated? So the risk of whether mechanical failure
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: or a victim escaping in the vast wilderness were weighing
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: on him. Poor guy. His solution was what he chillingly
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: dubbed his quote summer project. And I'm going to try
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: my best not to put in my thoughts you right away,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: and I want to see what you guys actually think.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: His so much summer project was here. He said he
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: wanted to bring his fantasies home, but to turn his
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: house into a private dungeon, he needed his family out
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: of the way. So for over a year, Hanson meticulously
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: conspired to clear the house. He had eventually convinced his wife, Darla,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: and their children to take a massive multi week trip
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: to Europe to visit his relatives in Denmark and in
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: other parts of the Lower forty eight. While and then,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: while his family was half a world away exploring their heritage,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Robert Hanson was back in Anchorage transforming their family home
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: into a house of horrors. What a great guy, Just
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: a great family man. Hanson's evolution took a bizarre turn
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: into the world of traditional dating. He placed an advertisement
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: in the Anchorage Daily News under the I'm sorry the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Anchorage Daily News under the Sunday Singles column. He told
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: investigators he was looking for a sincere, honest attachment, someone
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: who wasn't from the avenue. That makes no sense. I'm sorry.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you go from getting dancers and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: sex workers and murdering them. And now you're putting an
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: ad in there because you want to date somebody over
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the summer while your family is away. This makes this
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: part makes no sense, by the way, So his ad,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: which ran twice in the month before Darla left, read
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: like a typical outdoorsman's plea for companionship. Adventurous male forty
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: two five eleven one hundred and sixty five pounds looking
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: for a lady proud to be a woman to share
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: sincere honest attachment. Must like to dance and enjoy social life.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I just must like to dance. And I
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: just put that together that he normally gets dancers. I
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: wonder he's not about that kind of dancing, I don't think.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: And enjoy social life, willing to put on jeans join me,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: and finding what's around the next bin, over the next hill,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: enjoy flying own plane, beachcombing, fishing, camping. Life is beautiful,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: much fuller if shared. Knowing what we know now about Hansen,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: like that doesn't sound sound great at all, But to
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: the readers of the Sunday Paper, it was the ad
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: of a lonely pilot to the troopers sitting in the
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: interrogation room. It was a predator casting a new kind
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: of net. Hanson reasoned that if he could control the setting,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: he believed he could control his impulses. But as Cindy's
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: escape proved, the summer project was destined to end in
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: the same violence that had defined his life for thirteen years.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, how could it not. Hanson wasn't looking for
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: a partner to share what's around the next ben. He
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: was looking for a victim he could keep within reach
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: of his own basement. And that's what I think. I think.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: That's what I think as well, that he was hoping
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: to get somebody. He wasn't trying to date anybody. He
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: was trying to have a sex slave in his house
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: for the summer. If you ask me so, Robert Hanson's
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Sunday Singles AD had actually worked, and one of the
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: women who answered it was an employee of the Alaska
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: State Troopers. Yeah. H On June eighth, nineteen eighty three,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: this woman walked into the house on Old Harbor Road
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: for a first date. Hanson, playing the role of the
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: adventurous male from his AD, and gave her the grand tour.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: He took her down to the basement, the very room
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: that would soon become a dungeon, and showed off his
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: museum of death, the stuffed trophies and hunting kills lining
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the wall, which women love. I'm sure some women loved that.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not one of those. But it's a weird first date.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: It's aline saying, look at my walrus tusk. Hanson admitted
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: that his goal for the evening was to have sex
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: with her on his large bearskin rug, but this respectable woman,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: who was not that kind of woman, turned him down.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: It was a first date and she wasn't interested. To her,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: it was sorry, pardon me, I still have a lingering cough,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: and I do apologize for that. To her, it was
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: just a disappointing evening with a socially awkward baker. She
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: walked out of that house, up the stairs, and back
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: to her life, completely unaware that she had just stood
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: in the kill zone of a serial predator. Now, the
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: rejection from a respectable woman seemingly snapped something in Hanson.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: His attempt at a sincere attachment had failed, and his
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: family was halfway across the globe. The house was empty,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the bare rug was waiting, and his frustration was boiling over.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Five days later, on June thirteenth, Hansen went back to
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: what he knew. He didn't look for a Sunday single anymore. No,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: he went to the avenue and found Cindy Paulson. The
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: same bear rug where a trooper employee had politely declined
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: a sexual and in case owner was the same spot
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: where less than a week later, Cindy Paulson was handcuffed,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: chained to a post and rate and Hanson told the
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: prosecutors that he respected the women who answered his ads
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: because they weren't prostitutes. In his warped moral compass, their
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: respectability acted as a shield, But when he couldn't get
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: what he wanted through the personal section, he reverted to
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: his predatory nature. Cindy Paulson wasn't just a victim of
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Robert Hanson. She was the victim of his failed attempt
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: to be a normal man. And I just want to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: pause here on that, because this is his story, this
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: is what him saying his intentions were, and I think
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: he is a liar, liar who lies to try to
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: make himself sound like a normal person. Oh, I just
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: put that in there to like, I just wanted to
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: date somebody. Well, it doesn't make any sense knowing what
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: we know about Robert, and had that woman, this respectable woman,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: according to him, agreed to have slept with him on
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that bear skin rug, in his moral dichotomy, would make
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: her a whore. He's already said that before, so he
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: probably would have killed her as well. I think he's
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: lying about this whole thing, and that he was just
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: felt he could get away with it. I don't believe
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: him for a second. It was just like, oh, I
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: just wanted to date, because what was he gonna do?
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Start dating somebody and then his family come back in
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: a couple of months. Well, then what do you do
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: with the woman you've been dating for a few months.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: You don't want your super religious wife to be finding
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: out that you're in a relationship. His only choice would
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: be to kill her, and Robert's world, there are other choices,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: but according to Robert, there's none. So we can only
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: go with what he has to say about that. Oh God,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: if it was current, yikes, no, thank you, yes, swipe
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: left please and thank you now. Okay, So next we
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: have this quote quote, I didn't start to hate all
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: women as a matter of fact, I would venture to
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: say I started to fall in love with every one
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: of them, every one of them because became so precious
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: to me, because I wanted their friendship. I wanted them
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: to like me so much. On top of the things
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: that have happened, I'm not saying that I hate all women.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I don't quite to the contrary. I guess in my
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: own mind, what I'm classifying is a good woman, not
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: a prostitute. I do everything in my power anyway, in
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: any way, shape or form, to do anything for her
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: and to see that no harm ever came to her.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: But I guess, I guess prostitutes are women I'm putting
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: down as lower than myself. I don't know if I'm
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: making sense or not. And you know when this started
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: to happen. When it happened the first time at at Klutna,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I went home and was literally sick to my stomach.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I was sick out there
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: to my stomach. I can remember. I sat and cried.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I knew what I did was totally totally wrong. It
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: had come so close to happening before with Patty Roberts,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: so going way back into seventy one there, but also, yeah,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I don't believe you. I don't believe you at all, Robert.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: But sure, you know that's just him being like, I'm
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: actually I'm I'm a lever. Mm hmmm, I'm actually a
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: huge romantic. So I'm a person right who says that stuff?
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Nobody says that stuff. Hello, way, good banjie, Hello, good evening,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: good evening. Excuse me? So it said he had finished
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: that with it comes so close to happening before with
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Patty Roberts, the daughter of the trooper Frank Rothschild asked, right,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: there were other girls there. It comes so close to happening,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: but it hadn't. Hmm, that does protest too much because
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: they hadn't tried to run. Viccrumb asked, right, as as
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: long as they didn't run away, things went as I
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: controlled it. I guess I wanted to control things. It
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: made me feel masculine or powerful or in control of
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: my life. And as long as things went fine, you know,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: that was it. But this time it went too far.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: My gosh, I can remember I never even drove downtown.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I think for six months. I can remember driving downtown
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: and seeing a prostitute down there, and my gosh, my
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: whole body just tightened up. I didn't even want to
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: go close to one. Do you guys believe him? I
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: don't believe him. As the tapes rolled, Hanson detailed the
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty murder of Iglutna Annie, not as a premeditated hunt,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: but more of more as a series of escalations where
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: he casts himself as a man merely trying to maintain order.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: You guys, okay. He said she was his first kill,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: but didn't know her name. He remembered her clothes blue jeans,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: a sweater, and a brown leather jacket, and a vague
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: belief that she might have been from Kodiak. To the world,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: she was a human being, but to Hanson, she was
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: just as disposable as his pastry wrappers. I mean pretty
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: much right. And I did not believe for one second
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: this is his first kill. Do you guys, Do you
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: guys think that Alucna is his first first kill? I
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: don't think so. It couldn't remember if she was a
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: dancer or a sex worker, but he admitted to picking
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: her up downtown under the guise of taking her to
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: his home in Muldoom. The moment the pickup truck pasted
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the Muldoon Road exit. The meager baker vanished when she
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: realized they were heading into the wilderness and demanded to
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: go back. Hanson's need for control took over. He claimed
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: he tried to calm her by pulling out his guns, saying, quote,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I just pointed the gun, and I tell her. I says, no. Look,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: if you do exactly what I tell you and don't
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: give me any problem whatsoever, there's going to be no,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: you won't get hurt in any way, shape or form,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: because I know if a gun is being pointed to me,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not scared or worried that I'm going to be hurt,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: because that totally calms people down. Right here is a liar. Liar. Yeah,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think she's his first at all at all.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: The narrative then took a surreal turn as Hansen described
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: his truck getting stuck in a muddy swamp near a
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Clutnat lake. In a bizarre display of the power dynamic
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: he held, he actually convinced his terrified captive to help
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: him maneuver the vehicle back on detractable ground, but the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: moment the truck was free, the true ended. But as
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: soon as Hanson started to drive away. She did the
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: one thing Hanson said triggered his violence. She ran. Hanson
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: chased her through the bush, catching her by the hair
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: and tripping her to the ground. He claimed she pulled
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: a knife from her purse, a common tactic Hanson used
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: to justify his retaliation as he pinned her face down
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: into the Alaskan dirt. The woman's intuition was perfect. While
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Hanson continued to gaslight her, falsely claiming he wouldn't harm her,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: she screamed the truth into the mud. You are You're
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: going to kill me, and he ended her life with
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: a single brutal thrust of a black handled buck knife
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: into her back. Hanson said in his confession that this
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: nameless woman is the first person he ever killed. Quote.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: It happened first time there, you know, and I went home.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I was literally sick to my stomach, he said, As
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I was sick out there to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: my stomach, to which I say, the fuck he was, Okay,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I do not believe this for one second. You know,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: this is him doing what he does best, sticking to
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: his meet. I'm a meek, little baker. I'm not a baker.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I'm just a midwhiz guy do to do. I'm not
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: the bad guy blah blah blah that we've seen him
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: do a million times already. I mean, he is an
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: avid hunter, and I'm not saying all hunters can hunt people.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: That is not what I'm saying here, just clarify. But
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: this man has killed and dressed how many animals? All right?
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: He has taken life and quite frankly, he does not
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: see these women as human beings at all, so it's
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: really no different to him. And yet he's so torn up,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: you guys, he's so remorseful of what he did. He's
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: sick to his stomach. He's not this kind of person.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: And then he goes and does the same thing sixteen
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: more times. So it doesn't make any sense to me
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: at all. This whole She was my first and I
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: didn't mean to I would never just makes sense. And
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: he tries to say as well that Lukena Annie is
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: his first kill. And the problem is, as long as
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: they didn't run away, he didn't hurt them. And you're
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: telling me that of all the women, all the women
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: before Eklutna Annie, that she was the first to try
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: to run, to try to escape, to try to not cooperate.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that for one second. And that's why
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: I do not believe at all that Elucna Annie was
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: his first kill. Now, could Alukena Anna be the first
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: X on his aviation map? Probably on that kill map,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. I don't don't know about that.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: So the story of Elucna Annie, though it doesn't end
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: in the mud of the swamp where Robert Hanson left her. Instead,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: it's at the Anchorage Memorial Park Cemetery, where her physical
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: remains became a symbol of the women Alaska forgot and
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: the secrets Hanson tried to keep For over forty five years.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: The woman who sparked Hanson's sickness rested under a small
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: bronze plaque that was slowly being reclaimed by the Alaskan sod.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: The marker offered no hint of the violence that ended
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: her life or the monster who put her there. Still
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: shrouded in in anonymity, her marker says Jane Doe died
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, which is just so sad. Alucna Annie's journey
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: after death was as turbulent as her final moments. She
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: was buried, then exhumed and relocated three separate times. The
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: last move was originally a matter of logistical necessity, and
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: she had to be moved when her initial interment area
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: was redesignated for infants. But she lies in a surprisingly beautiful,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: if hidden corner of the cemetery, tucked between two elegant headstones,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: shaded by a massive blue spruce and the scent of
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: flowering lilacs. There is some irony that a woman who
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: was brutally discarded in a mosquito infested swamp now rests
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: in a place of curated peace, And to the casual visitor,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: the plaque is just another record of a life lost.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: But to the true crime community and the troopers who
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: never stopped working her case, that bronze plate represented the
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: ultimate failure of Robert Hansen's game. He took her life,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: and he took her name, and he even tried to
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: take her humanity by calling her lower than himself. But
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: by leaving her in that cemetery, the state of Alaska
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: made a promise they would not let her disappear, even
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: without a name. She was a permanent resident of Anchorage,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: a silent witness waiting for the technology of the future
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: to finally give her back the identity Hansoon stole in
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: the mud of Eklutna. And as of today, of all
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: the victims that they do know about Elucna, Annie is
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: the only person that has yet to be identified, and
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: they're still working on it. They do try very frequently
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: for Eglutina. They did not forget about her, so at
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: least they're doing that, right, Amy, You know what I
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: do when something makes me sick, I don't do it again.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: You don't do it sixteen more times? Doesn't make sense. Now.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: As the interrogation clock clicked over at a twelve nineteen PM,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: the atmosphere in the room shifted. Robert Hansen moved from
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: the mistakes of a Klutnat Annie to the more calculated,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: yet still chaotic murder of Sherry Morrow in November nineteen
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: eighty one. The case would prove to be a turning
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: point that transformed the butcher baker into an aerial predator. Now, unfortunately,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: we could not might find much from his confession about
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: what happened during the murder of Sherrymorrow. But remember, excuse me,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: it was the condition of her body that revealed a
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: level of post mortem ritual that chilled the investigators. When
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: her remains were found, her head was wrapped in ace
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: bandages serving as a nake sshift blindfold. She had been
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: shot three times in the back, and although Sherry was
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: found fully clothed, there were no bullet holes in her clothes,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: meaning that she had to have been redressed in some way. Now,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Sherry's boyfriend, a man named Young coast seeking No, I
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: don't think that's right. Probably Yank Yankoski? I bet is it? Sorry?
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I should look that up. Sorry. Jan had told Sergeant
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Hogsfen that Sherry never took off a specific golden necklace
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: with a gold arrow head pendant. When the grave was excavated,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: the necklace was missing, but when the troopers tore apart
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Hanson's attic, it was sitting alongside jewelry from the other
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: missing women. Then, in an unexpected quip that confirmed investigator's suspicions,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Hansen off handedly mentioned that the area was essentially his
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: own private cemetery told them that another unidentified body remained
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: buried just a few yards away from where Sherry had
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: been found. Can you believe that? Just? I mean, it's
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: real close to It's like, it's not that far, but
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: they didn't see it when Sherry was found. And Hansen
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: wasn't just dropping bodies at random, he was returning to
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: specific sweet spots where he felt safe, comfortable, and invisible.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: So a whole lot of premeditating going on for somebody
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: that just gets sick when something bah happens. Now, for
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: the families of the missing women, this part of the
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: confession was a bit of a double edged sword. It
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: offered the hope of recovery, but also reinforced the whore
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: that their loved ones might be lying in a cluster,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: discarded like trash by a man who couldn't even remember
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: their names. There's another interesting antidote that we found from
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: his confession. So Hanson's decision to stop using his pickup
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: truck and switch exclusively to his private plane wasn't born
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: out of a desire for adventure. It was apparently allegedly
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: born out of terror. Again, we can only take some
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: of his word to be true or half true. After
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: bearing Sherry Morrow, Hanson attempted to drive out of the
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: remote area, but found himself trapped again. The same man
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: who would calmly redress a corpse was suddenly reduced to
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: a blind panic by a muddy road. Quote this time,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking at all, and for some reason, I
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: was so much in a panic. I started turning the
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: wrong way and I stopped. Then I couldn't get the
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: damn thing going again. So it took me some rocking
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: back back and forth before I got it out where
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: there's some hard gravel augh coming through the road. Just
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: before that, I had banged my back fender and got
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: stuck once on the road that I had been going
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: twenty times. You know, I just, my god, get the
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: hell out of there. You know, who, how do you
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: go and say that? Or if you just talked about
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: murdering somebody, like WHOA, let's just casually talk about my
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: car getting stuck. Hmm. Now this misadventure was the catalyst,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: he says. Hanson realized that the roads of Alaska were
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: witnesses he couldn't control. A stuck truck meant a potential
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: police encounter, and from that moment on, the Piper Superclub
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: became his primary weapon. And so in the winter of
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: eighty two and eighty three, Angela Fettern, Teresa Watson, and
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Delnn Frey were believed to be the first three women
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: that Hanson flew into the bush in his super cup,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: and by flying his victims into the trackless wilderness, he
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: eliminated the risk of getting stuck in the mud, and
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: he could land on a gravel bar, commit his atrocity,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: and be back at the bakery before the dough had risen.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Now I do I have some questions about this area
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: of his confession too. The two things to say. The
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: first is, as we're doing all of these confessions, we
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: don't have the answers for how everyone was murdered. But
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: I think that if you take all of what we
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: do know together, we pretty much probably know what went
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: down for every horrible things hor or five things went
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: down for each of these women. But this is not
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: the first plane he owned. He owned two before that.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: So for people that lie a lot, you know, they'll have,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: you know, an actual truth. Well, yeah, this was the
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: first time I ever flew. It was this incident that
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I flew these other women now in this in this plane.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna mention my other planes that I
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: might have done that as well, because how he's been
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: doing this for how long now? And at this point
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: he was like, oh the roads are bad, man, even
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: though we heard survivor stories where you know where he
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: got he got stuck when he had abducted Patty. I mean,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: the roads in Alaska weren't great in the seventies and eighties.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: I doubt they're great now. And this is just now
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: a worry of his. It doesn't make any sense, doesn't
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: make any sense to me. But he's probably gonna be like,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: please don't go look at my other planes and the
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: flight records from those or anything of that nature. So yes, Pam,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Pam says. The final disrespect to the victims is that
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: he couldn't even remember names. Yeah, I hate this. I mean,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: I hate a lot of the people we talk about,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: but this guy is just such a little m makes
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: me angry, I would say, and it says, I would say,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: they probably did look, but it was Alaska that in fairness,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: he he's confessing now for this plea deal, but it's
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: only been a few months since his arrest because he
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: was gonna not wave his white right to a speedy trial.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: If this would have gone on for years, I do
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: think that we would probably have uncovered more in his case.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: But here we are. And that's another reason why I
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: think he took the plea deal is so more things
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be investigated and more atrocities wouldn't be found out,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Even though you would think, why would it even matter
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: at that point? You know, you've already admitted to killing,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: you know, sixteen seventeen women. What's the matter if there's more?
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: You know? But this guy was very caught up in
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: what people have thought of him. So that's part of
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: my that's just my opinion of how this all played
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: out or why it could have. So Amy says, well,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: because I don't think all of his victims were proved
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: exactly exactly. I agree. So after that, Hanson then goes
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: on to explain and a general sense of what allegedly
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: went down once a woman got into his vehicle. Excuse me, sorry,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: While we don't have his confessions, like I said, for
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: each and every murder, it's more than reasonable that all
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: of them experienced something similar to this, as it does
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: match other survivor accounts. And just like when he's like, oh,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't bring a gone out on Cindy until we
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: were at my house, well, Susan Heppard, Patty Roberts, Christy
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Hay Yes, and Jane Doe's school teacher all have the
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: same story, and those were years apart, and that's exactly
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: what you do, sir. So okay, so he says, oh,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: this is oh okay. So we're going to be doing
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: a back and forth interview here with Robert and Rothschild.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: So Robert says, I had planned on possibly that there
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: was a better way to do it by using my airplane,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know how to get the people from
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: my home to the airplane. I didn't like there were
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: times when I get up here along the Nick River
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: and so forth. You know, wasn't hardly a time when
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: I was there that there wasn't other people driving up
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: and down the road. And this was always a very
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: scary situation. I was always concerned about that. No, it
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: wasn't if while the girl was there, everything may go
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: just as it was sup to go. But what if
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: she's seen somebody coming close by or something or the
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: other and then start yelling or screaming or something like this,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: here this guy here has got me out here, he's
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: kidnapped me and so forth. Oh my gosh, Rothschild says,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: what was your plan if that happened? Did you have
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: a plan? Well, that just scared the living daylights out
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: of me. I didn't know what to do now. That's
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: why the only thing I could think of is just
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: jump in the airplane and just leave and get the
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: hell out of there as fast as I could. Hope
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: to hell that they would not have got the numbers
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: off my airplane. I know that once that happened, I
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: was in a tremendous amount of trouble. Oh did you
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: know that? Okay, So Rothschild says, what I'm wondering though,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: is you even mentioned that when things didn't go right
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: out here you were kind of you felt like you
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: were right out in the middle for the whole world
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: to see. And then down here by Seaward where you
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: were just at a poll off along the road where
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: there were mounds of gravel, and you were certainly I'm
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: sure going as quick as you could here. I aren't
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Seaward again. Robbert says, what what I was going to
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: do if something came up? Sir, I honestly don't know
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: about that one. I hadn't gone out and out planned
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: to start shooting a bunch of people if a bunch
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: of people showed up. No, I don't want to shoot anybody.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: It wasn't the plan at all. Sure, Jan, Sure, But
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Cindy Poulson mentioned to us that you said to her
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: something like if we get stopped by anybody, or troopers
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: come or anything like that. Oh, that was just pure.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: That was just talk. That was just talk to get
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: her as scared as possible. The more scared she was,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: the better. I think there was something like that said
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: every time someone was put out. That was just talk.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: It's just talk, you guys, just him being a silly goose.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: That's all. Now, what was your standard speech? It is
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: a bunch of bullshit. What was your standard speech? Would
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: you normally try to tell them to convince them not
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: to Oh? Boy, I tried to stop. But most generally
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: coming out of town pull on to Muldoon Road right
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: down here away. I don't know if it's an old
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: fire station or if it's a state shed or something.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Now in here, they generally have a big amount of
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: gravel here. Look at all this gravel. Talk And I
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: remind you all a bethman Hanson, I'm sorry, not bethman
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Hanson of Zizi Mason who they try to put it on.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Gary Zeiger and this man Hanson goes to a lot
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: of gravel pits to dispose of his victims. Just see.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Can all go back to that and be like, ooh,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: that is interesting. Oh he continues on with uh. There
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: is also an apartment building here, and some homes along here,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: some more apartment buildings. There's one big apartment building down there.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: You can drive into the parking lot here, then more
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: parking lots and between two of the big apartment buildings.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Pull in here and just stop there. Or I pull
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: into the parking lot here between the apartment buildings down here.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: A lot of just wasting our time, Hanson. Well, six
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: of one, half a dozen of another. I've used them both. Sorry,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: I just had to say it that way. Just stop
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: there so the car's not moving, so I don't have
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: to worry about her in the car both at one time.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: The car stops at the side of the road. Then
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: try to control the situation from there. Is that when
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: you pull out the gun. Yeah, I pull out the gun. Then,
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: oh really, you pull out the gun then? Okay, okay,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: but you didn't do that with Cindy, that's right, Okay, okay, Yeah,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: I pull out the gun then and say hey, look
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: now you're I think the standard speech was, look, you're
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: a professional, and don't get excited. You know there is
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: some risk in what you've been doing. If you do
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: exactly what I tell you, you're not going to get hurt.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: You're just going to count this off as a bad
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: experience and be a little more careful next time who
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: you are going to proposition or go out with. You
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: know this mofo mm mmmmm. You know. I try to
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: act tough as I could to get them as scared
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: as possible, give that right away, even before I started talking,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: and all that reach over, you know, and more or
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: less get my hand in the girl's hair, you know,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: and hold that head back and put a gun in
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: her face and get them to feel helpless and scared
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: right there. Then tell them to turn around and face
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: the seat on their knees on the floorboard. That way
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: they were down. They wouldn't start anything there. I'm sure.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's it's not the same procedure for you, always
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: trying to get control of the situation so some things
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: don't start going bad. Can you believe this guy at all?
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: He now says, Oh, you cups, you probably like do
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: the same thing right, But also remember he's a nice guy.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: Things only go bad if somebody tries to run away
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: cause problem. He doesn't hold guns up against women. Okay,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: he's not like that. And here he's literally saying, yeh,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: that's that's what I do every time. So that sounds
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: like you had a good way to work it. Now,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: that's maybe I've seen some cops and cops shows and TV.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, how would you usually bind people?
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't have their arms free? No, No, generally handcuffs
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: that's the easiest, simplest, but you know, put their hands
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: behind them when they were sitting on their knees on
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: the floor with their hands behind them, and also they
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: were down when I drove by, nobody could see them.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: And then once down like that, then give them a
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: speech that, you know, try to impress on them over
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: and over again if there was no problem whatsoever, that
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: if they didn't do anything foolish tomorrow, they could get
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: on and get the shit out of here or just
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: not do it anymore. Heye, that's kind. Yeah, I'm just
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: gonna say I hate this guy after I have to
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: say his words, so it's extra gross. Did you have
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: to bind their feet too?
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: I don't recall at this time ever ever tying anybody's
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: feet up. No, they were. I almost always got them
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: on the floorboard of the car, mainly to you know,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: I know an awful lot of people around town and
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: this and that, and I just didn't want the idea
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: that possibly maybe taking any more chances that somebody knows
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: my car and sees me driving. Did you ever have
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: anything go wrong out there, I mean, just go batshit
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: on you? Were you able always to control the situation.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I never had a time to where when things went
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: bad there. I never had. I never had a girl.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: The only time you could say it went halfway bad
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: was if I had a couple of them start crying
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: and start out, Oh, don't kill me, don't kill me.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: I haven't done anything. I tried everything I can think
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: of that they know that's not going to happen, and
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: just do exactly what I tell you. I'm not gonna
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: hurt you. I never hurt none of them. If the
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: things went right, I admit I'd scared the hell out
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: of them, But that's what I was trying to do.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: That's just what he was trying to do. Guys, Okay,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: not a murderer, not a bad guy, that's just what
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: he was trying to do. Well from here, of course,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: there were no stoplights either, so you could go right back.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: I could just go. I had to make a stop,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: of course, you know that. But once that happened, I know,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: I knew. I mean, I purposely drove ten miles an
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: hour slower than the speed limit any place I had
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: to go. And that's one thing that really petrified me,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: that by God, something would go wrong or something. Oh well,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: can't be having any of that, can you. You know,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: before I would go pick a girl up, I would
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: go through, I would check my car over from one
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: end to the other. I was always petrified that something
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: was going to happen to the car, and for some
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: reason or another, I was going to have a mechanical failure,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: that I was going to be forced to stop along
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: the side of the road, and then what the hell
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: would I do? I do everything I could think of
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: so I didn't have a problem. Well, look at him,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: just thinking of all of the things that could go wrong,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: riot to Pam, Oh is that all? Well? Shoot, I'm
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: a swell guy. I'm a Midwestern guy with a sutter,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: and I'm a little Mick Baker. You know, I'm just
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: trying to have some fun. Well, I scare the shit
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: out of them. But then, you guys, if they react poorly,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: it's on them. Remember that it's not his fault if
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: they try to, like you know, I don't know, fucking
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: survive and run away and get from his crazy ass.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: But boy does he love playing to put in the
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: blame on these women. I'll tell you what. So. As
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: the interrogation moved into the afternoon, Robert Hanson turned his
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: focus to the coast. On May nineteenth, nineteen eighty, while
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: the rest of the world was reeling from the eruption
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: of Mount Saint Helens, Hanson was in Seaward, Alaska, stalking
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: twenty four year old Joanna Messina. Hanson's confession regarding Joanna
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: was steeped in his characteristic delusion. Okay, he told investigators
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: he met her on the Seaward docks and believed they
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: were having a normal date. He was convinced she was
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: attracted to him just for him, giving him a rare
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: moment of validation for a man who spent his life
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: feeling socially inferior. They went out to dinner and the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: evening seemed to go well. Joanna, who had a job
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: call at the cannery the following morning, simply needed to
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: get back to her campsite. But for Hanson, the date
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: was a trap that hadn't yet been sprung. Now, the
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: transition from a romantic evening to a murder occurred in
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: Have you Guessed It? A gravel pitt? What another one? Crazy?
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: According to Hanson, after they arrived to have sex, Joanna
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: asked for money. In Hanson's fractured moral universe, this request
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: was a transformative event. The respectable woman who was dating
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: instantly became a prostitute in his mind. He refused to pay,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: but he also refused to let her go, and the
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: rejection sent him into a rage. He kidnapped Joanna and
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: her dog, driving them to a remote area by the
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: Snow River. Now again, I think when it comes to
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: this story, I mean, we heard his you know, with
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: Patty Susan, with Christy. He would always be like, I
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: thought it was an you know, it wasn't anything bad.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: It was all their fault, you know. They tried to
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: pull one over on me and ask for more money.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah, and I do feel that's
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: exactly what he's doing with Joanna here, like, oh, I
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: thought we were on a date, you know, Like, oh no,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that for one second. What followed was
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: a brutal display of his control pathology. After raping her,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Hansen's violence escalated beyond his typical methodology. He struck Joanna
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: in the head with a twenty two caliber revolver, using
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: it as a club before using it to kill her,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: and he shot Joanna twice and an act of senseless cruelty.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: He also shot her dog once, ensuring that there was
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: no living witnesses to the crime. And it's of my
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: personal opinion that he actually shot the dog first because
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: it was a German shepherd. If when we covered her
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: missing case and finding of her body a few episodes ago,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: they were inseparable and I don't see how you're gonna
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: be able to do all this and her dog just
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: be like not reacting because that's not what people said
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: about her dog. Excuse me. So he dragged her body
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: then across the gravel and stuffed her, stuffed her into
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: a sleeping bag like some grim cocoon, and dumped her
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: in a gravel bit threw her belongings and dead dog
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: into the woods, and tossed the murder weapon into the
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: snow river. Hanson went on to say, there was only
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: one other time it went bad, that one. I've had
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: an awful lot of second thoughts about that. So this
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: is him saying, yeah, oh, maybe I was the bad
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: guy in that situation. Maybe you know, I shouldn't have
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: got That's why I think his story of what happens bullshit,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: because he was just using them to try to make
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: her look bad to justify And if that was the case,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: then why would you feel bad? And to say, oh,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: it only went bad one other time, sir, we got
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of x's on this map, So I don't
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: know about that. Oh you think you shot the dog
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: first too, Yeah, I do. I do as well. Or
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: maybe she left the dog back at the campsite or something.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but the dog had to have gone
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: first or been on a chained up or something. Just
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: based on what everyone said her dog was, it was
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: good boy. It was a good boy dog. So so
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: by saying that he had second thoughts, he was trying
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: to suggest that her death was a tragic misunderstanding rather
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: than a calculated execution. He blamed her desperation for the money,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: effectively making the victim responsible for her own murder. And
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: it was just more of the butcher's guile, you know,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: a predator trying to frame his most violent outbursts, his
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: moments of personal regret. Get out of here, sir.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: By the time the tape recorders were clicked off for
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: the day, the investigators and district attorneys were emotionally spent.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: Lord knows I was writing all of this, But as
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Flothy and da Ros's child stepped out into the
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: cold Alaskan night, they knew Hanson wasn't anywhere close to
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: being honest with them, and that the next morning they
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: were going to have to push and push hard because
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: he wasn't being He was not being very honest about
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of things. I think he's dish honest of
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: like how he ended up killing them, but then he
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: changes all the other stuff because I don't know. Do
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: you think maybe it's because like he doesn't want to
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: see himself as a monster, even though he knows he
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: is a monster, because he's he's monstrous. Let me tell
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: you what, But do you know himself? Like in the
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: first day, his story keeps changing. Oh, Cindy, no, I
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: never pulled guns on people like that. Oh if luc
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Na Annie, I told her not to run and then
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: she pulled a knife on me, and I as always
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: like claiming self defense when she's faced down on the
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: ground and he stabs her in the back. Anyway, He's
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: so full of shit, this guy. So the investigators and
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: district attorneys started the next day facing a vexing axiom. Okay,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: when a serial killer tells the truth twenty percent of
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: the time and lies the other eighty percent, the entire
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: confession becomes a minefield because you cannot trust the truth
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: because you have no metric to separate it from the trap.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: And I feel like he was only twenty telling the
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: truth on a lot of these so das, Vic Crumb
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: and Frank Rothschild realized that Hanson was only giving up
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: what he knew. They already had the survivors who could testify,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: like Cindy Paulson, and the bodies that had already recovered.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: He was trying to win the confession by keeping the
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: rest of his secrets buried. So Crumb decided to stop
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: the polite inquiries and go for the jugular, or in
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: real word terms, how did that go? Oh? Never mind.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: I was gonna have a clever joke, but then I forgot.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: I had the motto for the real world, stop being
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: nice and start playing getting real. That's what it is,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: the real world, where people stop playing nice start getting real. Sorry,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: I have to do something to lighten lighten this horribleness.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: So he laid out. Crumb laid out the mathematical impossibility
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: of Hanson's story. Hanson had previously claimed there were twenty
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: one good times consensual encounters that correlated with the marks
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: on his flight map. That's right, those were all good times, guys.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: They weren't bad times. This makes sense. But Crumb dismantled
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: this lie. On the maps, there were twenty one asterisks,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: and five of those marks already represented confirmed bad times.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: If Hanton was now claiming those specific spots only held
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: bodies and no good memories, the math wasn't mathing. It
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: suggested then that every single one of those twenty one
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: marks was a grave. Look at all those numbers on
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: that map like that is, and those are the ones
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: that we know of, And I'm gonna go with there's
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: a lot more that's none on that map. So Chrome
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: issued a terrifying ultimatum to the man sitting across from him.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: He made it clear that while the state would honor
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: the no publicity agreement for the Monday court date, the
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: search wouldn't stop there. Quote, come springtime, we're not going
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: to let this sit. We're going to go out there
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: and we're going to be looking for sixteen more grapes.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: And the message was clear, we know the scale of
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: what you did. If you'd don't tell us where they
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: are now, we'll find them ourselves, and your deal will
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: turn into a relentless series of new murder trials every
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: time a shovel hits a bone, which is exactly Wade
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: did not want. And guess what the pressure worked. Hanson
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: began to twist nervously. His carefully constructed mask of the
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: cooperative witness was slipping, and so he demanded a private
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: break with his attorneys, Fred Dewey and Joe Evans, and
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: what followed was a scene of pure chaos. You remember,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: his lawyers believe in him. Well. From across the hallway,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: the prosecution team could hear muffled shouting and intense arguing.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: It became painfully obvious that Hanson hadn't just been lying
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: to the police. He had been lying to his own
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: defense team. Dewey and Evans, who had walked in believing
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: they were managing a controlled surrender for you know, four
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: or five murders, suddenly realized they were representing the architect
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: of a literal graveyard. They hadn't read the FBI memo
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: on the manipulative nature of serial killers, but they were
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: getting a live demonstration of it. Now. Yeah, could you
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: imagine You're like, wait, what, sir, there's how many other
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: bodies out what?
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: I bet they were pissed. I bet they were really pissed.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: I would be, because you know, when you're negotiating a
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: plea deal, there's now now. Hanson began with Paula Golding,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: the most recent found victim who went missing in April
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty three. Sometime during the last shift at
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: the Bush the Dancing Company on April twenty fifth, Hanson
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: appeared and made an off for Golding should have refused,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: but she was new to the game, and Robert Hanson
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: took advantage of her inexperience. So let's listen to Robert
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: talk about it. That's right. Let's hear his stupid voice.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Hate his voice. Next amy, there you go.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: M So, what's the plan to give him to the
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: plane and give him in the plane? And I bore,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: I mean really good. Uh just tell him how no, hey, no,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: and go wrong. I'm gonna probably have to shoot half
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: the people this damn town.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah sounds ridiculous, all right, And then we have another audio.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: This is where he's talking about Paula.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: I walked around her side the car, opened her door,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: and you got her turn around from the seat and
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: background around behind the wing strut. And uh, she's still
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: hand and playing on. Grab her by the arms and.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: Learn through her feet up and step and walk her
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: feet on him and she sit ups down once you
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: think now again she's pretty much confined.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: Uh can't move?
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: Uh? Then uh again. Uh the period there where I
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: have to go back out and get my car and
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: just move it fifteen feet. I told her what I'm
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: going to do. I'm not to be watching it. We
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: start getting out of the airplane.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 4: Uh, please don't do it, because I don't want a
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: bunch of holes and the side of my airplane where
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: I have to shoot him through the through the bide
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 4: of the air. Uh, I said something to that fact, and uh,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: she and the other two were young, just out there board,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: didn't even both bleaan and I and.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: I got back in and h starting to eropy.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: Nothing. Isn't his voice just stupid? I find it stupid.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: I hate his stupid voice, and I hate him and
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: just how he talks like so nonchalantly about everything. It's
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: it's ough, so eerie. I don't like it. And there
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: were other audio things, but honestly, what we had access
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: to wasn't of anything of importance. And boy is he
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: a slow talker. I was like, never mind, we don't
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: need to listen. That was the only important stuff to
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: take away. He sounds stupid, Yes, stupid. I hate this guy.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: One of the most haunting aspects of the case Excuse Me,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: was how Hansen managed to load terrified women into his
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: plane at Marrowfield, one of the busiest general j aviation
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: airports in the world. When Crumb pushed him on how
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: he kept them from screaming for help while surrounded by
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: other pilots and ground crew, Hansen's answer was that it
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: just never happened, and so this suggests a terrifying level
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: of psychological dominance here, because by the time they reached
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: the tarmac, his victims were often so traumatized or so
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: convinced by his lies that they wouldn't get hurt if
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: they cooperated, that they stayed silent in the shadow of
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: the very people who could have saved them. And listen,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: that's no fault on the way. This happens all the time.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: One nobody knows how they're going to react. And yeah,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: you want to hope that they're not going to kill you,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: but listen, they always say, if somebody does try to
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: take you to a secondary ocasion or a secondary location,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: they are going to kill you, so don't go. But
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: then again, when you're standing there in that moment, out
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: of nowhere, a person pulls a gun on you, it's
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: probably the last thing that you remember. But I mean,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: somebody's waving around, they're talking about how they'll shoot other people.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: You know. He puts the possibility of other people's deaths
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: onto the victim. Ugh, this fucking guy, I hate him now.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: Flothy asked the questions some of you may be wondering.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: How does a lone pilot control a victim in the
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: cramped noisy confines of a small aircraft. Well, Hanson confirmed
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: that the women were handcuffed in the back of the plane.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: You remember when him and one of his stupid alibi
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: friends okay, thanks Jams, and they were like redoing his
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: his airplane seats to be removed out of the plane. Well,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: there you go, now, I know why, right, Oh, don't
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: like it. So once this Piper Superclub was in the air,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: Hanson felt invincible. To him, the cockpit was a sound
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: proof vault, and he said, quote, I don't care if
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: they screamed, yelled, or fuss. He said, what the hell
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: could they do? And that's true. What are they going
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: to do? Wreck the plane with both of them in there?
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess too, you know, just take down together.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: But you know he's not wrong, and you know he
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: noted it with a predator's logic that there were no
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: flight controls in the rear of the aircraft, and even
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: if the victim broke free, they were trapped in a
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: plane thousands of feet above the wilderness. What were they
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: going to do? Now? Hanson denied the more cinematic villain
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: tropes like threatening to throw women out of the plane
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: mid flight. He pointed out the physical impossibility of it.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: It's not even possible for him to do. However, However,
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: he admitted to a much more grounded and effective threat
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: once they landed in them bush, and that was if
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: things junk go right, boy, this is where you're going
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: to stay now, miles and miles from civilization, surrounded by
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: bears that will eat you, wolves that will also eat you,
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: and whether that most certainly will kill you. Telling a
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: woman this is where you're going to stay was not
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: just a threat or of a of abandonment. No, it
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: was a promise of death. You are not coming back
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: from that. With where he took them, there was no
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: way of surviving that now. Throughout these confessions, Hansen's focus
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: remained entirely on his own convenience. He used the word
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: problems repeatedly to him. A kidnapping and a murder were
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: talks that needed to be completely completed efficiently, all right.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: So the handcuffs, the threats, and the remote landing strips
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: were all just tools to ensure that his project went smoothly.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: That's all, you know. He wasn't interested in their fear
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: for its own sake, No, he just wanted their compliance
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: so he could satisfy his urges without problems. Sure, no,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: he enjoyed the fear. He enjoyed it now. The interrogation
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: then took a cinematic turn as Robert Hanson began to
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: describe the mechanics of the nineteen eighty three hunt of
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: Paula Golding Goulding. His account was devoid of empathy, focusing
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: instead on the logistics of the terrain and the structural
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: details of a hunter's camp. And there was a lot
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: that I could have done, like a back and forth
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: in but it was so you know, when people spend
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: too much time on details that don't matter. This is
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: what he was doing. And I'm like, I don't care
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: if there were five leaves. I don't care, So I
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: just get that part. But well, I should say I
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: put it into a small section for you guys. So
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: Hanson described landing the Piper Superclub on a firm gravel
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: bar along the Nick River. He told them about the
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: physical struggle of managing a captive in a cramped bushplane.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: The difficulty of extracting a handcuffed woman from the rear
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: seat forced her to get loose so she could use
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: the window supports to climb down but the moment her
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: feet hit the gravel, the transition from pilot to predator
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: was complete. He grabbed her the second she'd stepped out,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: immediately asserting physical dominance in the middle of the Alaska Void.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: And again, this is what he has to say about
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: what happened to Paula Paula, and it's probably what happened
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: to many of the other ones as well, So just
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: keep that in mind. Now. Hanson's memory of the location
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: was disturbingly precise. Oh, this is the part I was
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: talking about, and described a very specific campsite that evolved
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: over time. There was a tent frame, a structure with
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: half walls that had recently been enclosed, and not far
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: from that was a meat shack, a screened in building
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: that he specifically noted the horizontal bar used for hanging carcasses,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: which is a rather chilling detail considering he had brought
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: a human being to the same spot. But remember, guys,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: she's supposed to remain chill. Believe him that he's not
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: going to do anything wrong while going to a meat shack. Okay.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: He noted that the area was accessible by riverboat or
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: high clearance four by fours, but he felt safe there
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: because he had seen the tire tracks of planes with
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: the engine turned off and the silence of the wilderness
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: surrounding them. Hanson began leading Paula towards the shack. He
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: used his standard psychological manipulation, telling her quote, this is
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: where we're going to spend the day. It was a
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: phrase design to suggest a temporary situation, a way to
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: keep his victim from panicking and causing problems before he
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: was ready to exert final control. Now, just as they
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: were walking towards the shelter, the one thing Hanson feared
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: most happened, the unexpected arrival of another human being. A
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: plane appeared from up the river, circling low over the
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: gravel bar. Oh shit, the son of a bitch was
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: going to stop now. In that moment, Hanson felt a
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: surge of blind panic, similar to the time his truck
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: got stuck after murdering Sherry Morrow. The presence of another
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: pilot wasn't just an inconvenience, It was a threat to
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: his carefully constructed anonymity. He stood there, holding Paula by
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: the arm, watching a plane circle the very spot where
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: he intended to commit murder, Realizing that for all his planning,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: the Alaskan wilderness was never truly empty. So Hanson's strategy
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: with Paula was to turn her oak is, to turn
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: her own survival instincts against her. By the time they
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: reached the Nick River meet shack, he had successfully framed
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: his potential for murder as her personal responsibility quote, if
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: something goes wrong up here, it's going to be your fault,
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: which he said that to some of the survivors, like
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: Patty when the unexpected plane began circling overhead. Hanson didn't
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: just see himself as a kidnapper caught in the act. No,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: he saw him self as a man whose peace had
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: been disturbed, how dare they? He used the pilot's presence
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: as a terrifying leverage point that if Paula screamed and
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: forced him to kill the pilot, he would have to
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: kill her too, And in Hanson's twisted math, her silence
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: wasn't just a demand, it was a favor he was
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: allowing her to do for herself. Isn't he just so
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: th awful and so nice? Now? The details of the
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: meat shack proved a very aunting backdrop to the atrocity.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: Hanson described the nail and the stud used to keep
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: the screen door shut, and probably a mundane detail of
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: Alaskan bush life that he twisted to secure his prison.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: That's right, secured her with one nail. Now inside the shack,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: he had backed Paula against one of the structurals. The
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: iron bar designed for hanging heavy moose carcasses, became the
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: anchor for her handcuffs. Then he told her he was
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: going to make sure the guy didn't land excuse me,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: maintaining the illusion that if she would just stay quiet,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: the problems would end. Now. While Paula was chained to
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: a meat post inside the shack, Hanson walked back out
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: to his supercup as the pilot overhead made a final
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: pass and dipped his wings in a friendly hello between
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: fellow aviators. Hanson stood on the gravel and waved back
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: to the pilot in the sky. It was a peaceful
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: scene of a lone hunter at a camp. To Hanson,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: it was a moment of narrow escape that triggered a
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: surge of adrenaline. The wave wasn't a sign of relief,
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: it was a trigger for escalation, because, shaken by the
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: close call, Hanson realized his pistol wasn't enough to maintain
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: the control he craved, so he reached into the super
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: cub and pulled out his two twenty three Ruger Many fourteen,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: the high powered semi automatic rifle that would eventually become
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: the forensic signature of his most brutal kills. He leaned
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: the rifle against the meat shack, a silent centennial of
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: the violence to come, and stepped back inside to face Paula.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: The game had been interrupted, and romper Hanson was finished
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: being patient. During his confession, Hanson took a twisted pride
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: in how well he had groomed Paula for her own abduction.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: He described her as almost an accomplice in her own kidnapping,
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: running to the plane to be quiet, offering to duck
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: down at Merrowfield to avoid being seen, and hiding in
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: the bushes when the witness's plane first appeared. Now, to Hanson,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: this wasn't the behavior of a woman paralyzed by a
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: gun and a madman. It was a partnership in avoiding problems.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: Well quote, she'd done everything in her possible at the
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: time to keep there from being a problem. I think
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: I had her convinced of this yeh. Now, the psychological
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: break happened at the threshold of the meat cooling shack. Hanson,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: always the analytical hunter, wondered aloud during his confession if
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: the mere name of the structure, a place built specifically
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: for the butchering and hanging of carcassus, is what finally
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: broke Paula's facade of hope. I mean, it probably would me.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I don't think if somebody has need
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: to chained to a bar and a meat shack then
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: coming out a life of this, all right. Plus, this
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: guy has already said that he killed freaking anybody else,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: so again, she knows, she knows. They all know. He
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: likes to think that they're ignorant, and they're not. We
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: all know they're not. That's why when he was like, oh,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: these are the only the ones that fought back or
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: try to run away. Mmm, I'm gonna go with a
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: lot of them, did sir? All right? You don't just
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden have sixteen women do that in
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: a row in three years, but none in the previous
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: ten years. Okay, okay, sir. Now, when he returned to
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: the shock after waving at the pilot, the dynamic had shifted.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: The girl who had run to the airplane to get
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: and quiet was gone, replaced by a human being who
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: stared into the void and saw her own end. The
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: moment he freed her from the iron meat pipe, the
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: screams began. Paula Goulding had stopped believing the meek baker's lies.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: Quote You're going to kill me, aren't you? You're going
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: to kill me, Hanson, with his rifle leaning against the
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: exterior wall, replied, no, I ain't going to kill you.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: The problem is over with now. Hanson described her as
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: beyond fright and unconsolable. You don't say, like a real
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: fucking human being, Robert. For a man who obsessed over control,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: her loss of composure was the ultimate problem. He could
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: no longer pretend this was a day out or a
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: sincere attachment. By realizing her imminent demise, Paula Goulding had
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: stripped away Hanson's last excuse. As the interrogation reached the
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: climax of the polar Golding narrative, the room fell into
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: a heavy silence. Robert Hanson began describe a frantic, one
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: sided hunt in the Alaska bush. His words revealed a
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: terrifying logic under where the murder was a tragedy that
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: happened to him, rather than an atrocity that he committed
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: because of course, of course, Hanson described the final minutes
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: as a series of failed attempts to calm a woman
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: who had correctly identified her own executioner. Paula's transition from
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: compliant to hysterical was, in Hanson's eyes, the primary problem.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: I just don't understand why you don't calm down line
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: pointing a gun at you and have you handcuffed. I
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: don't understand why you're freaking out. No, you do. When
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: she finally broke away towards ther, he caught her and
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: tried to gaslate her one last time, claiming everything was cool,
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: but the presence of the meat shack and the circling
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: plane had stripped away the illusion. When she ran a
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: second time, Hanson reached for the ruger Many fourteen to
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: twenty three rifle he had leaned against the shack. Now,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: Hanson would never say I killed her or I shot her. Instead,
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: he used the phrase things went completely bad. So just
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: so you know, this mofo can take how many lives,
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: but he can't even be a man to say I
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: killed her or I shot her. No, he's going to
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: be a little wimpy, little wimp and he can't even
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: say the own words of what he did. No, it's
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: just things went bad, I don't know. Disgusting. Now, the
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: Hanson Paula's attempt to run was a betrayal of the
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: deal he thought they had. He blamed the son of
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: a bitch pilot for circling. In his mind, the witness
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: caused the panic. The panic, the panic caused the run,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: and the run forced the shooting. That's right, it's nothing
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: to do with him. It's not his fault, guys, It's
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: fine to everybody else. Now. The analysis of the moment,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: I think is vital to understanding Hanson. When a woman ran,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: she was reclaiming her agency, okay, and she was proving
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: that he didn't have control. And he didn't like that,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: all right, because the Robert Hanson, that was the ultimate insult,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: and his anger knew no bounce, because her flight was
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: a mirror reflecting his own inadequacy. And maybe if he
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: hadn't been such a creepy little jerk, okay, women might
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: have actually talked to you. But no, you're fucking creep
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: and a weirdo and gross, and you're gonna blame all
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: the women for you be in that way when you're
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: the problem. Okay, sir, you, sir, I'm sorry, are the problem. Now,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: when he couldn't control her life, he would exert the
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: only power he had left, and that was to control
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: her death. Now. The interrogation then turned to a specific
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: haunting detail that had puzzled the recovery team when they
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: first unearthed Paula Golding's remains. Sergeant Glenn Flothy knew there
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: was a discrepancy in how she was found, and he
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: used it to test the accuracy of Hanson's memory. Now,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: Flothy asked about the state of Paula's clothing. Hanson's response
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: was a frantic, sensorary memory of the final struggle. He
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: recalled the moment his control physically tore her world apart.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: As she tried to flee towards the river, Hanson lunch,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: grabbing the back of her shirt with such force that
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: it ripped at least part way off. Display of his
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: bizarre personality, Hansen claimed that as she stumbled to her knees,
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: terrified and screaming, that he was going to kill her.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: He he's a great guy. Guys, He actually apologized for
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: the damage, saying, I'm sorry that I tore your clothes.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: Can you believe this guy saying this to the police
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: with a straight face, Like, listen, I know I've done
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: all this stuff, which doesn't sound great, but I am
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: still a nice guy. I have manners. I'm from the Midwest,
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: so I had to apologize for ripping her clothes even
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: though I'm literally about to murder her. Sure, that doesn't
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: make any sense, Robert Now. He admitted that by the
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: time the final struggle ended, her clothes were hanging off
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: her shoulders, buttons were missing, and the fabric was shredded,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: a forensic detail that matched exactly what the troopers had
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: seen in the dirt of the nick. When the questioning
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: shifted to the actual execution, Hanson's narrative became fragmented, because
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: of course it did. He described the use of the
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: Ruger Many fourteen not as a precision hunting tool, but
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: as a panicked extension of his own rage. Because the
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: rifle wasn't automatic, the shots fired in rather rapid succession
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: to a degree, and Hanson claimed he couldn't remember the
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: count once twice, three times, doesn't know, describing a chaotic
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: scene where he held the rifle like a pistol at
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: close range. An experience hunter. This guy, like, you guys
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: think that's how it went down. I don't, I don't,
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: And he couldn't remember, okay. Hanson did his best at
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: minimizing every ounce of responsibility he could not with just
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: not for just Paul, but like with all of them.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: So that's why this is so frustrating. He wanted to
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: maintain the image of a guy who was pushed into
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: a situation where a gun just happened to go off, right,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: just happened. I don't know, it happened like seventeen times.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. But the ripped clothes and the multiple excuse me,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: the multiple two twenty three wounds told a different story,
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: a story of a predator who hunted a woman until
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: her spirit broke and then silenced her screams. Now, As
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: the final tapes of his confessions slowed to a stop,
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: the room was left with a silence that was both
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: heavy and hollow. Robert Hanson finally had finally been unmasked.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: His meek Baker persona discarded for the reality of a systemic,
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: systematic predator. Cush words are hard right now, just kidding,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: But as the legal teens prepared for his sentencing just
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: a few days later, the finality of his words felt
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: like a jagged, incomplete edge, which is also how I
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: feel about it as well. The official tal tally was staggering.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: Seventeen murdered women and the sexual assault of at least
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: thirty others during a twelve year reign of terror. That's
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: what he admitted to. It meant that for a Klutna Annie,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: Joanna Messina, Jerry Morrow, and Paula Gooding, Golding Goulding. Sorry,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: the truth was finally etched into a court record. Yet
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: the math of Hanson's map told a darker story of
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: the suspected thirty seven victims. The remains of only twelve
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: women have ever been recovered and turned to their families,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: who spent years staring at the front door, waiting for
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: a daughter or a sister who would never walk through it. Now,
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: while the plea deal was designed to clear the decks,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: Hanson proved that even a man facing four hundred and
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: sixty one years plus life in prison could still hoard
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: power and be the gatekeeper of grief. Now, the aviation map,
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: once a tool for navigation, had been transformed into a
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: permanent ledger of the missing, but it was an incomplete ledger.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: Hanson pointed to many X marks, but there were others
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: he simply refused to explain, and some of those being
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: three exes located near Resurrection Bay, a deep water fueld
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: near Seaward. And we all know the stories of Megan, Emerick,
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: and Mary. And by refusing to speak their names or
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: confirm their locations, Hanson ensured that the families of those
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: unrecovered victims would remain in a state of permanent agonizing limbo.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: The map was a confession, but his silence on all
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: the specific marks was a final act of defiance, a
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: way to ensure that, even from behind bars, he still
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: held the keys to Alaska's darkest secrets. And just so
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: you know, during and we will talk about what happened
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: to some of these other women in the next episode.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: And I didn't include the confession parts here, and that's
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: because he didn't know a lot of the women's names,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: and they didn't know who a lot of the victims
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: were until they found the bodies and could confirm who
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: who they were, So we'll get into some more of
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: his confession in the next episode as well. And speaking
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: of next time, on our next episode, we reached the
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: final chapter in our Frozen Fear the Butcher Baker of
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: Alaska series. That's right, we made it. I made my
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: deadline to have it all wrapped up by the end
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: of March, and we're going to take you inside the
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: courtroom for a sentencing that remains one of the most
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: significant in American history, where a judge handed down a
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: staggering four hundred and sixty one years plus life, ensuring
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: that Robert Hanson would never again breathe the air of
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: the Alaskan wilderness. And then we'll fly with the troopers
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: as they use Hanson's death maps to find the bodies
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: he promised would never be found. The ice is melting
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: and the truth is servicing, and the families of the
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: vanished are finally going to get their names back, and
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: we're going to see the conclusions of what happened with
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: Cindy Paulsen, what happened with Darla and the kids, and
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: how did the community really react to all of that.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: And we'll be covering all of that next time for
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: our well earned and deserved reckoning of Robert Hanson. The end. Now,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: I've said a lot of my closing thoughts already in
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: this Thank you Laney Lany one hundred percent shares my
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: scorn and disgust. And yeah, I feel like I don't
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: blame I believe it or not. I blame a lot
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: of things in Alaska. I do we all do at
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: this point, after everything we've learned. I want to be
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: upset that they didn't press harder in these interrogations of
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: forcing him to tell the truth, because I don't believe
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: he told the truth at all, and I don't feel
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: like they really called him on his bullshit and they
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: were willing to just take the minimum amount of information
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: they could and then go from there. And I don't
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: entirely blame them because in situations like these you do
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: have to be really careful. Right He could just not
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: say anything and not co operate, and they are looking
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: at trying to find what they think it is twenty
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: one missing and dead women. So I do give them
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: grace when it comes to getting this confession out of him,
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: But I really wish because he never talked about this again.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: He didn't want to and so there's so many unanswered
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: questions that I do wish that they had pressed more
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: on certain things, or that it would have been talked about,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: and you'll understand more. I mean you probably already can't
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: understand why, but in the next episode, when we're less
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: with what we do and what we don't know, you know,
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: because even though half of the stuff he says is
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: lies to make himself look good, for some of the women,
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: that's all the information we have on them, and so
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: that's quite sad. But between all the stories we've heard
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: in our entire coverage of this mini series, all away
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: from Susan Hepperd to Sendy Paulson, if you combine all
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: those stories together, we know what happened. I'm not saying
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: we need like the details of what happened to each woman,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: but some more of who they were, Like a kluton
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: at Annie, you know, there weren't more conversations. We don't
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: know anything about her. And what about all the people
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: he's not talking about. I mean, it does suck. There's
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: so many unanswered questions. But what happened with Paula, that's
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: probably what happened with all those other women as well.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: You know, he tries to make himself be like, hey, listen,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: I was just kidnapping them. They were prostitutes. I was
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: just trying to get it for free and scare them
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: and all of this stuff, which for him to even
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: I know that, he says that, oh, they're just prostitutes,
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: so they're bad. And when at the beginning, right, he says, Oh,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: I love all women. I fall in love with all
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: of them them, do you because you got a weird
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: way of showing it, Sir, Anne, are you in love
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: with your wife because you're a pretty fucking shitty husband
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: all around, not just for this, I mean, this is
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: pretty much the worst she can do. But like, you're
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: not great, sir. His view of himself is entirely twisted,
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: Lady and Gray says. The judge also skewers the justice
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: system for their failures. Yeah. I was hoping to put
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: all of this finality in one episode, but unfortunately the
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: sentencing part. It's not unfortunate because it's very very good.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: But the sentencing part is about seven or eight pages long,
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: and it feels very good. It is a good ending
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: to that of recognizing the faults along the way and
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: the atrocities that I have yet to be disappointed in
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: any of the judges except for the Alaskan Supreme Court.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: Not a fan of them. The judges, oh, except for
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: the judge who he had the bail hearing with for Patty. Remember,
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: he was just like, well, it's Christmas. Like, I know,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: he just kidnapped them, raped a seventeen year old, but
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: go spend Christmas with your family. Even if another one
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: girl just was found dead two days before it's Christmas,
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: It's fine. He doesn't need to be in jail. That
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: guy sucks. But anyway, that is what we will be
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: talking about tomorrow, yay. And so that's all I really
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: have for tonight. I'll definitely have some more thoughts at
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: the conclusion of tomorrow. If you guys have any questions,
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: if you want, you can leave them in the comments,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: the chat, DM them, email them, leave them in discord
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: wherever you want to, and I'd be happy to talk
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: about them more after we finish it up tomorrow night.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: So if you haven't send in my way, and we
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: can definitely discuss more, because there's so much more say,
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: there's so so much when it comes to this, But
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: for now I'm gonna go ahead and wrap up tonight,
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: so I have some voice left over for tomorrow night
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: since I've been on twice today. So before we go,
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: if you like what you've heard tonight, be sure to
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: follow all of our socials and subscribe to our YouTube
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: channel it's free, or if you're listening to our pod,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: please download and give us a rating. All of that
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: helps us tremendously, tremendously in getting our channel out there,
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: and it's free, so that's the best, right, love free stuff. Now,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: as I said tomorrow on True Crime and Wine, time
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: join us for the chilling conclusion of our Frozen Fear
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: the Butcher Baker of Alaska series at eight pm Eastern.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: Terry may or may not be with us, but I
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: will be here for sure, and that's all I've really
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: got for you guys, So I hope you'll have a
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: wonderful evening, Stay safe, and until next time, go forth
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: and be amazing, all right. Bye,