Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 15 July

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The Kenny Report | 15 July · The Kenny Report

0:01
Speaker 1: Love from the Skying New Center. This is the Kenny Report.
0:06
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me tonight. Much more on the story
0:09
Speaker 2: that's still reverberating around the world, the Secret Service security failure,
0:14
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's defiant response and President Joe Biden's uncertain response
0:20
Speaker 2: and what it all means for the United States. I'll
0:22
Speaker 2: speak with former Australian Foreign Minister and US political tragic
0:26
Speaker 2: bobca about the implications of hate speech in political debate.
0:31
Speaker 2: I'll speak with former Democrat White House advisor Barbara Heiniback
0:34
Speaker 2: about the tragic history of political violence in the US
0:38
Speaker 2: and how it tears at their social fabric. Plus, I'll
0:41
Speaker 2: cross to Kristen Tate in the US and get her
0:43
Speaker 2: take on whether President Biden runs again or withdraws in
0:47
Speaker 2: coming weeks. And today marks the sixtieth anniversary.
0:51
Speaker 1: Of the Australian newspaper.
0:53
Speaker 2: Our Sky News doco airs tonight and former editor in
0:56
Speaker 2: chief of The Australian, Chris Mitchell, joins me tonight.
1:00
Speaker 1: All that plus lots more.
1:01
Speaker 2: With Gematine Uni, Christy McSweeney and Sophie Ll'sworth. Thanks so
1:06
Speaker 2: much to Caroline Marcus and Steve Price for holding the
1:08
Speaker 2: fort so well last week.
1:10
Speaker 1: Let's get into it. I was just a baby when
1:16
Speaker 1: John F.
1:16
Speaker 2: Kennedy was shot, but the tragedy loomed large over my
1:19
Speaker 2: childhood through his great words and those brutally dashed hopes.
1:24
Speaker 2: Later we saw the chaos and social division of the
1:27
Speaker 2: late nineteen sixties, with Martin, Luther King and Bobby Kennedy
1:31
Speaker 2: shot dead again, men remembered for their greatness and their
1:36
Speaker 2: hopes cut violently short.
1:38
Speaker 1: My generation was.
1:39
Speaker 2: Young and idealistic when John Lennon's death horrified us, and
1:43
Speaker 2: a year later we were shocked when Ronald Reagan was shot,
1:47
Speaker 2: but even his critics were impressed by how he handled it.
1:51
Speaker 2: The weekends appalling attack on Donald Trump falls into that
1:54
Speaker 2: same horrible narrative, and likewise it will shape history. I
2:00
Speaker 2: want to start with some crucial points tonight. First, the
2:03
Speaker 2: security failure. This was unforgivable. Why was a rooftop so
2:09
Speaker 2: close to the stage not occupied by police? Even still
2:13
Speaker 2: bystanders saw a man with a rifle on the roof and.
2:17
Speaker 1: Alerted police because danger.
2:37
Speaker 2: So why did police not immediately warm their colleagues to
2:40
Speaker 2: get Trump off the stage? Within minutes a police or
2:45
Speaker 2: secret service sniper was onto the threat started taking aim,
2:50
Speaker 2: but didn't shoot and kill the would be assassin until
2:54
Speaker 2: he fired three rounds. Sure, we all know the US
2:58
Speaker 2: has a massive gun problem and that four presidents have
3:02
Speaker 2: been assassinated, but in the past one hundred and twenty
3:05
Speaker 2: three years only one president has been assassinated JFK of course,
3:10
Speaker 2: and until the weekend, two had been wounded in attempts
3:14
Speaker 2: on their lives, Teddy Roosevelt in nineteen twelve and of
3:17
Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan back in nineteen eighty one. So the US
3:20
Speaker 2: Secret Service has managed this constant threat quite well, but
3:25
Speaker 2: not on Sunday in Pennsylvania. Listen to conservative commentator and
3:30
Speaker 2: former Secret Servants Secret Service agent Dan Bongino.
3:35
Speaker 3: Donald Trump knweded doc. I mean most people would he
3:39
Speaker 3: saved his own life. That's just a fact. The evacuation
3:43
Speaker 3: did not go right. I mean the rule with the
3:45
Speaker 3: Secret Services covered the protectee and evacuate. The other rule
3:49
Speaker 3: is maximum to the protect ee, minimum to the problem.
3:53
Speaker 3: Why minimum to the problem, because you don't know that's
3:56
Speaker 3: the only problem. It could be a distraction.
3:59
Speaker 1: There could be another in the crowd.
4:01
Speaker 3: So if you don't jump on the protectee, you could
4:03
Speaker 3: be looking at multiple shooters. So at least that part
4:07
Speaker 3: the guys there stepped up there. But the failure here
4:11
Speaker 3: is absolutely catastrophic. And I got to tell you the
4:14
Speaker 3: Secret Service should be very careful. I could tell you
4:17
Speaker 3: and absolutely confirm from the horse's mouth from multiple people,
4:22
Speaker 3: not just one. And I saw Congressman Waltz textas out
4:25
Speaker 3: before on X. There have been repeated requests to increase
4:29
Speaker 3: the security footprint around not just the residences of Donald Trump,
4:33
Speaker 3: but the body itself, and they have been rebuffed. Like
4:36
Speaker 3: I said, I can tell you actual quotes, the Secret
4:39
Speaker 3: Service directors completely failed and candidly should resign today.
4:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a great worry.
4:46
Speaker 2: There are investigations underway now and we'll follow all that.
4:50
Speaker 2: But this takes us to the performance of President Joe Biden. Remember,
4:53
Speaker 2: up until the weekend, all the talk was about replacing
4:56
Speaker 2: him on the ticket. Some analysts are now saying this
5:00
Speaker 2: locks him in now as the candidate, that he can't
5:03
Speaker 2: quit now after the weekend's events.
5:05
Speaker 1: I beg to differ.
5:07
Speaker 2: The only certainty about such volatile times is that we
5:10
Speaker 2: should expect more volatility once more. This episode shows just
5:15
Speaker 2: how slow Biden is to act, how his judgment is faulty,
5:20
Speaker 2: and how he lacks the vitality to lead the contrast
5:23
Speaker 2: with Trump's instant defiance and leadership, and how He's kept
5:27
Speaker 2: to his schedule today traveling to Milwaukee for the Republican Convention.
5:31
Speaker 1: Well, it's a stark contrast, isn't it.
5:34
Speaker 2: On Saturday night, it took Biden almost two hours to
5:38
Speaker 2: respond from his beach house in Delaware.
5:42
Speaker 4: Look, there's no place in America for this kind of violence.
5:45
Speaker 4: It's sick. It's sick. It's one of the reason why
5:49
Speaker 4: we have to unite this country. We cannot allow for
5:52
Speaker 4: this to be happening. We cannot be like this. We
5:54
Speaker 4: cannot condone this.
5:58
Speaker 1: We cannot condone this. Really, this was a terrible statement.
6:03
Speaker 1: He said as little as he could.
6:05
Speaker 2: He made no apology or concession for demonizing Trump over
6:10
Speaker 2: the years.
6:11
Speaker 1: He added no new information. It was insipid.
6:14
Speaker 2: We heard next from the President eighteen hours later on
6:18
Speaker 2: Sunday afternoon at the White House.
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Speaker 4: Will debate and will disagree. That's not going to change,
6:26
Speaker 4: but it's we're going to not lose sight to fact
6:28
Speaker 4: who we are as Americans.
6:31
Speaker 2: Again, it was more noteworthy for what he didn't say.
6:34
Speaker 2: There was no press conference just a statement, and then
6:37
Speaker 2: in his third go at getting the tone right, in
6:40
Speaker 2: twenty four hours, Biden gave a short, heavily scripted address.
6:45
Speaker 1: To the nation.
6:47
Speaker 2: Even then it contained the typical Biden misspeaking, ironically swapping
6:52
Speaker 2: ballot boxes for battles.
6:56
Speaker 4: But in America, we resolve were difference at the battle box.
7:01
Speaker 4: Now that's how we do it at the battle box,
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Speaker 4: not with bullets.
7:06
Speaker 2: Oh dear, how can the Democratic Party tell voters these
7:10
Speaker 2: are traumatic testing times demanding strong leadership and then have
7:15
Speaker 2: this man run for re election. In his address, Biden
7:18
Speaker 2: again turned to the challenges for civil society.
7:23
Speaker 4: Former president was shot, an American citizen killed. I'll simply
7:27
Speaker 4: exercise his freedom to support the candidate of his choosing.
7:31
Speaker 4: We cannot, we must not go down this road in America.
7:35
Speaker 4: We've traveled before throughout our history.
7:38
Speaker 2: Violence has never been the answer. Sure, again, this is
7:43
Speaker 2: largely platitudes. What about the hatred? The president has to
7:47
Speaker 2: lead the way instead of just calling on others to
7:50
Speaker 2: tone down the debate, hinting that Trump and his supporters
7:53
Speaker 2: are to blame.
7:55
Speaker 1: Biden should lead.
7:56
Speaker 2: By admitting overreach on his own behalf. We know Trump's
8:01
Speaker 2: supporters rioted at the Capitol in January twenty twenty one,
8:05
Speaker 2: and that's been widely condemned by politicians, by media, and
8:09
Speaker 2: by authorities. But where was the Democrat condemnation of the
8:13
Speaker 2: riots that greeted Trump's election in twenty sixteen. Where was
8:18
Speaker 2: their condemnation of the endless Black Lives Mattered protests in
8:22
Speaker 2: twenty twenty And what about the way the Democrats and
8:25
Speaker 2: their supporters have endlessly ratcheted up the anti Trump rhetoric.
8:32
Speaker 4: Well, I'd like to punch him in the face.
8:34
Speaker 5: Yes, I have thought an awful lot about blowing up
8:40
Speaker 5: the White House.
8:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've seen endless hatred and vitriol. There was that
8:46
Speaker 2: unfunny comedian parading Donald Trump's severed head. And when Hillary
8:51
Speaker 2: Clinton lost to Trump, she said he was illegitimate and
8:55
Speaker 2: she urged people to join the resistance.
8:58
Speaker 6: I'm now back to being an active as citizen and
9:01
Speaker 6: part of the resistance.
9:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, just as Trump was wrong to rail against the
9:10
Speaker 2: result in twenty twenty, the Democrats failed to offer unqualified
9:14
Speaker 2: losers consent in twenty sixteen.
9:17
Speaker 1: They all need to do a hell of a lot better.
9:19
Speaker 2: And the demonization of Trump also extended to his tens
9:23
Speaker 2: of millions of supporters.
9:25
Speaker 4: You could put half of Trump's supporters into what I
9:28
Speaker 4: call the basket of deplorables.
9:34
Speaker 1: Right the races, sex.
9:39
Speaker 7: Is, homophobics, aenophobic, islamophobic, you name it.
9:46
Speaker 1: This isn't acceptable.
9:48
Speaker 2: Political hatred, personal abuse is not acceptable.
9:52
Speaker 1: It has consequences.
9:55
Speaker 2: The leftist media and commentators have taken to describing Trump
9:59
Speaker 2: as some kind of hitler and the recklessly execu rate
10:04
Speaker 2: of what's a normal partisan contest, as a threat to
10:07
Speaker 2: democracy itself.
10:10
Speaker 8: It is just unquestionable at this point that that man
10:14
Speaker 8: cannot see public office again. He is not only unfit,
10:19
Speaker 8: he is destructive to our democracy and he has to
10:23
Speaker 8: be He has to be eliminated.
10:26
Speaker 4: Donald Trump and the Marga Republicans represented extremism that threatens
10:32
Speaker 4: the very foundations of our republic. As we began the
10:37
Speaker 4: selection year, we must be clear. Democracy is on the ballot,
10:43
Speaker 4: Your freedom is on the ballot.
10:46
Speaker 3: What in your view constitutes the primary threat to freedom
10:49
Speaker 3: and democracy at home?
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Speaker 4: Donald Trump? Seriously, Donald Trump talk uses phrases like We're
10:57
Speaker 4: gonna He's eviscerate the constitution. It can be a dictator
11:01
Speaker 4: on DeWine.
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Speaker 1: This is terrible stuff.
11:05
Speaker 2: The polarization of debate, the exaggeration of the stakes, they
11:09
Speaker 2: can have consequences. Reports just on the weekend before the
11:13
Speaker 2: shooting said President Biden told donors he wanted to put
11:16
Speaker 2: a bullseye on Trump's back. Now that's a figure of speech,
11:20
Speaker 2: to be sure, but it's emblematic of a hateful political culture.
11:25
Speaker 2: All sides in the US need to create a better
11:28
Speaker 2: public square where people can respectfully disagree. The hard question
11:34
Speaker 2: is whether this is even possible in the social media age.
11:38
Speaker 2: The US election is not a choice between democracy and fascism,
11:43
Speaker 2: or between communism and freedom. This is an election between
11:47
Speaker 2: old warriors from the two major parties, where the policy
11:51
Speaker 2: differences are more typical than atypical. This anti Trump bile
11:56
Speaker 2: has been prominent in Australia too.
12:00
Speaker 1: Let me remind you of what.
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Speaker 2: Even our own ambassador to the United States has said
12:04
Speaker 2: back before he had the job. Kevin Rudd said on
12:08
Speaker 2: social media that Donald Trump was a traitor to the West,
12:12
Speaker 2: and he looped in news Corp and talked about rancid treachery.
12:17
Speaker 2: Also called Trump the most destructive president in history, dragging
12:22
Speaker 2: American and its democracy through the mud. This is hateful
12:27
Speaker 2: and unhinged stuff. And by the way, it shows why
12:31
Speaker 2: Anthony Alberneze's appointment of Rudd to Washington was deeply unwise.
12:36
Speaker 2: If Trump becomes president again, and he's certainly the favorite,
12:39
Speaker 2: he'd have every right to completely shun Kevin Rudd. This
12:44
Speaker 2: leads to my final point that's very important for Australia.
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Speaker 2: If we believe that political hate speech can increase the
12:52
Speaker 2: chances of political violence, then we need to tone it
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Speaker 2: down here. We need to stop the hate speech here.
13:00
Speaker 2: It's getting out of hand. For the past eight months
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Speaker 2: or more, I've been highlighting hateful, violent speech in this
13:07
Speaker 2: country around the Middle East issues. What could be more
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Speaker 2: hateful than this? Well, actually, maybe this was even more hateful.
13:26
Speaker 2: I'm I'm smiling and I'm happy.
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Speaker 1: I'm that's a day of courage.
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Speaker 2: Celebrating terrorism, celebrating the murder of men, women and children,
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Speaker 2: the rape and kidnap of girls is hate speech and
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Speaker 2: it's not been prosecuted or stopped. The ugly anti Israel
14:06
Speaker 2: protests are continuing in this country week by week, including
14:10
Speaker 2: protests and vandalism at politicians offices. The strongest lesson from
14:16
Speaker 2: America to Australia this week is to get on top
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Speaker 2: of hate speech here as soon as we can stop
14:23
Speaker 2: the escalation. We have to draw the line against hate
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Speaker 2: speech because you can never know where it might lead.
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Speaker 2: Let's go now to former Foreign Minister of Australia Bobca,
14:38
Speaker 2: former New South Wales Premier too.
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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Bob, good to talk to you and.
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Speaker 2: Pick your brains about your knowledge of American history. Firstly,
14:46
Speaker 2: let's talk about the nineteen sixties in the US, the
14:51
Speaker 2: civil unrest, the polarization of the debate, the political violence.
14:55
Speaker 2: Are we getting to a similar era of polarization and
14:59
Speaker 2: trauma in American politics?
15:01
Speaker 4: Now?
15:03
Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 9: If you look at the sixties, you had riots, Black
15:08
Speaker 9: riots in the streets of all major American cities. That
15:12
Speaker 9: added an extra element that you haven't got today. You
15:17
Speaker 9: also had, i mean far worse than what you had
15:20
Speaker 9: a few years ago, in response to the relations between
15:24
Speaker 9: police and America's African American population. So that was an
15:28
Speaker 9: ingredient you had in the sixties you haven't got today.
15:31
Speaker 9: Whether you'd have, I don't think you're going to have
15:33
Speaker 9: demonstrations like those in the nineteen sixty eight. Your Cargo
15:36
Speaker 9: Convention of the Democratic Party that was really violent that
15:41
Speaker 9: was a police riot against half crazed demonstrators. Some provocateurs
15:47
Speaker 9: half crazed, others quite peaceable. There are elements you haven't
15:51
Speaker 9: got today, but don't forget in the sixty eight you
15:53
Speaker 9: had two assassinations, Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. We're
16:01
Speaker 9: at about the same time as the Robert Kennedy assassination
16:04
Speaker 9: in the year that was after the Californian prim I
16:08
Speaker 9: think that was June June. So there's time for this
16:12
Speaker 9: to be bad. If there's another attempt at murdering one
16:18
Speaker 9: of the candidates.
16:20
Speaker 1: Well, it's important to tone this down now.
16:21
Speaker 2: I know Donald Trump and his supporters at times have
16:24
Speaker 2: gone too far.
16:26
Speaker 1: I want to waste too much time on that.
16:27
Speaker 2: Because the whole world has focused on that for about.
16:30
Speaker 1: The last six years.
16:31
Speaker 2: But don't the Democrats need to accept some responsibility for
16:35
Speaker 2: the way they have demonized Donald Trump and ratcheted that
16:39
Speaker 2: up continuously over the last number of years.
16:43
Speaker 9: Well, we can get into this agonizing assessment who did
16:48
Speaker 9: it first, But Chris I got to say, when Donald Trump,
16:52
Speaker 9: remember the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband at their home
16:55
Speaker 9: in San Francisco. He was seriously battered by an intruder,
17:00
Speaker 9: and Trump's response was the response you would never have
17:04
Speaker 9: had from a George Bush junior, or a George Bush senior,
17:08
Speaker 9: or a Ronald Reagan. Trump and close Trump supporters promoted
17:15
Speaker 9: false claims that Paul Pelosi had somehow brought the onslaught
17:17
Speaker 9: upon himself through sexual misadventure. Donald Trump jeered and mocked.
17:23
Speaker 9: Now the decent response we're being for Trump, with his
17:27
Speaker 9: status former president, to have expressed real regrets and to
17:31
Speaker 9: have sent Nancy Pelosi and her husband best wishes. So
17:36
Speaker 9: this was being of them.
17:38
Speaker 2: So, Bob Carr, I don't disagree with that. I won't
17:41
Speaker 2: disagree with any of the times Trump supporters or Trump
17:44
Speaker 2: himself have gone too far. But the point is that
17:47
Speaker 2: instead of taking the high ground as I've claimed to
17:50
Speaker 2: take that, Democrats have talked about him as hitler, as
17:53
Speaker 2: a complete threat to democracy, that if they lose this
17:56
Speaker 2: election there'll be a dictatorship in the US.
17:58
Speaker 1: Of course, this just amplifies all.
18:01
Speaker 2: Sorts of hatreds and animosities in the body politic.
18:06
Speaker 9: Well, I'll give another example that I think I think
18:09
Speaker 9: completes the indictment of Trump and his behavior by Governor
18:13
Speaker 9: Wretch and Witmer just take a moment we all.
18:17
Speaker 2: Know about Donald Trump might be it is about the
18:20
Speaker 2: Democrats taking some responsibility for toning down their own language.
18:25
Speaker 9: I'll come to the Democrats, but this is important. When
18:28
Speaker 9: she when there was a right wing extremist plot to
18:31
Speaker 9: abduct her as governor of Michigan, Michigan, Trump belittled the
18:36
Speaker 9: thread at a rally, and he disparaged.
18:38
Speaker 1: Her as a political enemy.
18:40
Speaker 9: The decent response would have been for Trump to have said,
18:43
Speaker 9: this is appalling. The way Biden responded to the assassination
18:48
Speaker 9: attempt on Trump, you should have said, this is appalling
18:51
Speaker 9: that a governor, yes a Democrat, that a governor doing
18:55
Speaker 9: her duty to the people of Michigan would have been
18:58
Speaker 9: would have been subject to the possi ability of being kidnapped.
19:02
Speaker 1: He didn't say that he is a thessender.
19:04
Speaker 9: Again, this is a lowering of the bar, a lowering
19:08
Speaker 9: of the bar against violent talk and encouragement of violence.
19:12
Speaker 9: And then there's January six. Now when it comes to
19:14
Speaker 9: the Democrats. When it comes to the Democrats, I think
19:18
Speaker 9: you've got to throwing around comparisons with Hitler. Invoking fascism
19:24
Speaker 9: has got to be has got to be approached with
19:26
Speaker 9: a bit of aness. I would say the furthest you
19:29
Speaker 9: can go Trump a fascist is to say that his
19:33
Speaker 9: postures and his rehtoric have tones of fascist leadership over
19:38
Speaker 9: the years. I'd be thinking of Mussolini, but it's probably
19:42
Speaker 9: not worth pursuing that because there's enough incontestable stuff on
19:46
Speaker 9: which to condemn him.
19:49
Speaker 2: Bob Joe Biden, though from the White House, has been
19:52
Speaker 2: saying that Donald Trump would be a dictator if he
19:56
Speaker 2: was elected, that the whole future of American democracy.
19:59
Speaker 1: Is on the line.
20:00
Speaker 2: Isn't that unnecessarily and recklessly inflanetary.
20:06
Speaker 9: Well, look at two things Trump has carefully committed himself
20:09
Speaker 9: to do. One is to deport aliens who haven't got
20:14
Speaker 9: immigration papers. Now, that would mean and he expressly said
20:17
Speaker 9: that in his first year, Chris, he'd deport a million
20:20
Speaker 9: of them. That is a less of mobilization.
20:23
Speaker 2: See the issue here is Bob, sorry, because we do
20:27
Speaker 2: have limited time, and look, we could talk for an
20:29
Speaker 2: hour about what a rogue Donald Trump is, and that's
20:34
Speaker 2: been twenty four to seven on most of the world's
20:36
Speaker 2: media for the past six years.
20:38
Speaker 1: What I'm trying to get at is the Democrats.
20:41
Speaker 2: Who hold the White House at the moment, and their
20:44
Speaker 2: culpability for, instead of lowering the tone, actually amplifying the
20:48
Speaker 2: retoric and escalating the divide and polarization in the body politic.
20:56
Speaker 9: But they're up against a Republican opponent who says, old,
21:00
Speaker 9: round a million people living in America, regardless of whether
21:04
Speaker 9: they're married to Americans, regardless of whether they hold jobs,
21:08
Speaker 9: regardless of whether they work in age care or disability care,
21:12
Speaker 9: and I'll deport them. I'll deport them. That's going to
21:14
Speaker 9: be a massive nationwide exercise in detaining people, sticking them
21:21
Speaker 9: in camps till they be till they be busted across
21:24
Speaker 9: the border. The second thing he's committed to is weaponizing
21:27
Speaker 9: the Justice Department, and he's on record saying he's on
21:30
Speaker 9: records saying he will go after critics, critics of his administration.
21:35
Speaker 9: And the next one, well, if he says things like that,
21:39
Speaker 9: he's really inviting.
21:41
Speaker 2: Well, you're saying the excuse for this polarization and violent
21:46
Speaker 2: retoric from Democrats and their supporters is Trump because he's
21:51
Speaker 2: a rogue.
21:51
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I.
21:55
Speaker 9: Absolutely, I think I think if you look at the record, Chris,
21:57
Speaker 9: you've got to say Trump has degraded the public debate.
22:00
Speaker 9: There is no other Republican, not Ted Cruz, not Marco Rubio,
22:05
Speaker 9: who would say and do the things in the style
22:09
Speaker 9: that Trump has done. Yeah, well, if they were running
22:12
Speaker 9: for president.
22:13
Speaker 2: Well, the issue the justice system, the justice system obviously
22:17
Speaker 2: has been weaponized against Tim, so it's legitimate for him
22:20
Speaker 2: to raise that.
22:21
Speaker 1: And my point, I keep getting back to this.
22:23
Speaker 2: The Democrats keep telling the people of America that the
22:26
Speaker 2: very future of their country is on the ballot paper
22:29
Speaker 2: this time, that Trump will be a dictator, and they
22:32
Speaker 2: keep escalating this hysteria. Let me at least get your
22:35
Speaker 2: views on Joe Biden, then, Bobca, do you think in
22:38
Speaker 2: the interests of American democracy and the Democratic Party, Joe
22:43
Speaker 2: Biden should stand aside in favor of a fresh ticket.
22:48
Speaker 9: You should stand aside. He should have made the decision
22:51
Speaker 9: out of respect for his the political system in the US,
22:54
Speaker 9: as Truman did in nineteen fifty two, as Lyndon Johnson
22:58
Speaker 9: did in nineteen sixty eight, which a year you invoked
23:01
Speaker 9: the start of the interview. He should have made the
23:03
Speaker 9: decision at the start of the presidential election year. It
23:08
Speaker 9: would have given his own party, who treated him with
23:11
Speaker 9: great respect and delivered great support to him. It would
23:14
Speaker 9: have given the Democratic Party time to have arranged a process,
23:19
Speaker 9: time to have had open primaries. Instead, there's a convention
23:22
Speaker 9: about to descend on the party with the delegates over
23:27
Speaker 9: ninety percent of them, over ninety five percent of them
23:29
Speaker 9: locked up committed to Biden. I think he's locked himself in.
23:33
Speaker 9: He's done his party a huge disadvantage, and this, combined
23:36
Speaker 9: with the attempted assassination, leaves Trump sitting pretty I think
23:41
Speaker 9: to win the presidency in November.
23:43
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Bob Carr. I appreciate your time.
23:47
Speaker 2: Bob Carr, their former Foreign Minister of Australia.
23:50
Speaker 1: You'll appreciate.
23:51
Speaker 2: So there's lots to talk about with Donald Trump, but
23:53
Speaker 2: I do really want some of the public debate to
23:56
Speaker 2: focus on Joe Biden and the Democrats and.
23:59
Speaker 1: The wreck us.
24:00
Speaker 2: Why they keep escalating this debate in the US. Let's
24:05
Speaker 2: go to former Democrat White House staffer Barbara Henebacker joins me. Now, Barbara,
24:10
Speaker 2: great to talk to you again as someone who's lived
24:12
Speaker 2: through those tumultuous sixties and as a lifelong Democrat, and
24:17
Speaker 2: you've seen the horrors of political assassinations and division on.
24:21
Speaker 1: The streets of the US.
24:23
Speaker 2: What did the weekends events erupt in you? What is
24:27
Speaker 2: your interpretation of what's unfolding now?
24:30
Speaker 10: Yeah, well thanks for having me. Chris lifelong Democrat, one
24:35
Speaker 10: more time. I need to stress I didn't leave the
24:38
Speaker 10: Democrat Party. It left me because it's not the party
24:42
Speaker 10: that it was back in the sixties.
24:44
Speaker 1: You know.
24:45
Speaker 10: I remember when my dad was so excited about voting
24:49
Speaker 10: every year, and especially once every four years. And I
24:53
Speaker 10: was a little girl in the car with mom and
24:55
Speaker 10: dad for a couple of hours in the winter in
24:58
Speaker 10: November going to the polls, and we were fighting for
25:01
Speaker 10: serious freedoms. When JFK was assassinated, I was a little
25:06
Speaker 10: girl then, and I watched on television and I saw
25:10
Speaker 10: and tried to follow a little bit what was going on,
25:13
Speaker 10: and remembered he and Jackie walking down Pennsylvania Avenue the
25:17
Speaker 10: day of the inauguration and then hopping out and coming
25:21
Speaker 10: to the White House and the arena there and everyone
25:26
Speaker 10: welcoming them into the White House and it was a
25:29
Speaker 10: new day for America. And then shortly thereafter at the assassination,
25:34
Speaker 10: we followed for the whole weekend. I remember things were
25:37
Speaker 10: shut down and then fast forward to when I was
25:42
Speaker 10: when Martin Luther King Junior was assassinated. By then I
25:46
Speaker 10: was in university at Howard University, Washington, d C. Coming
25:50
Speaker 10: home from university that night, I think it was a
25:53
Speaker 10: Thursday in nineteen sixty three, no, nineteen sixties, teen sixty
26:00
Speaker 10: eight for Martin Luther King and coming home and all
26:03
Speaker 10: of a sudden, I heard bullhorns and police up and
26:07
Speaker 10: down the streets.
26:07
Speaker 11: There's a curfew. Get home. I went home for a
26:10
Speaker 11: few minutes.
26:11
Speaker 10: I was scared to death, first time away from home
26:13
Speaker 10: and tried to run down to my boyfriend's house and
26:17
Speaker 10: I got pepper sprayed, fell on the curve and it
26:20
Speaker 10: really does make you dizzy and all.
26:22
Speaker 11: And there was a bloodbath in Washington.
26:25
Speaker 8: D C.
26:26
Speaker 10: It was the slogan was burn Baby, Burn Well. People
26:30
Speaker 10: were fighting for their rights. It was the wrong thing
26:33
Speaker 10: to do. Two wrongs will.
26:35
Speaker 11: Never make a right.
26:36
Speaker 10: And I think one of the most famous quotes that
26:39
Speaker 10: Martin Luther King Junior ever said, an eye for an
26:42
Speaker 10: eye and a tooth for a tooth will make us
26:44
Speaker 10: all blind and toothless.
26:48
Speaker 2: Bob are These are traumatic memories, But tell me how
26:51
Speaker 2: you think of the weekends events, and how have I
26:53
Speaker 2: played that narrative in that history. How concerned you are
26:57
Speaker 2: about American democracy right now?
27:00
Speaker 10: Un terribly concerned, Chris, because you can't have it both ways.
27:05
Speaker 10: And just as you were trying to get from Bob Carr,
27:09
Speaker 10: he refused to talk about all of the rhetoric that
27:13
Speaker 10: has come from the Democrat side for the last eight years.
27:17
Speaker 10: Hillary called anyone who was wearing a red hat, said
27:21
Speaker 10: you're deplorables.
27:23
Speaker 11: And then we have Trump.
27:24
Speaker 10: Talking, I mean, we have Biden talking about democracy will
27:28
Speaker 10: end as we know it. And who was it that
27:31
Speaker 10: absolutely demonized Donald Trump from day one? And then they've
27:36
Speaker 10: had him in all of these court cases and all
27:39
Speaker 10: and yet we can't even see Biden make his way
27:43
Speaker 10: through a debate.
27:45
Speaker 11: And even the other day.
27:46
Speaker 10: What he called his big boy you know, his big
27:49
Speaker 10: boy press conference, he didn't manage that well. Tried to
27:52
Speaker 10: blame it on having a cold and just got back
27:55
Speaker 10: from Europe. Well, two weeks home from Europe is not
27:59
Speaker 10: a tough pull. And also when you're riding on Air
28:02
Speaker 10: Force one, which I've written many times, it's a pretty
28:06
Speaker 10: comfortable plane.
28:07
Speaker 11: He has a lounge, he has a bed.
28:10
Speaker 10: He has his own his own area in that plane
28:13
Speaker 10: where he can get all the rest he needs, all
28:16
Speaker 10: the briefings he needs.
28:17
Speaker 11: So it's a poor excuse on the Democrat part.
28:21
Speaker 2: I was surprised the situation. Their convention is just over
28:26
Speaker 2: a month away. They're going a month after the Republicans
28:28
Speaker 2: obviously happening this week Milwaukee. You would obviously like to
28:33
Speaker 2: see Joe Biden retire, perhaps a new ticket emerge at
28:37
Speaker 2: that convention.
28:38
Speaker 1: Is Kamala Harris up to the job?
28:40
Speaker 2: Or who do you see as who should carry the
28:42
Speaker 2: mantle for the Democrats?
28:46
Speaker 10: I don't want to laugh, but to answer the first
28:49
Speaker 10: part of your question, is she up for the job?
28:52
Speaker 11: I am awfully.
28:53
Speaker 10: Sorry to say Kamala has failed at the job. She
28:57
Speaker 10: won't read her briefing books. She was given the appointment
29:01
Speaker 10: of being the.
29:02
Speaker 11: Cizar of the border.
29:04
Speaker 10: We're almost four years in now and she has yet
29:06
Speaker 10: to make it to the border. Two years in, she
29:09
Speaker 10: did go down about twenty miles from the border and
29:12
Speaker 10: had a little conversation with a few people in Texas.
29:15
Speaker 11: She still didn't see the border.
29:17
Speaker 10: And we have listened to the rhetoric from both Kamala
29:22
Speaker 10: and the President when during the night in twenty twenty,
29:27
Speaker 10: Kamala came out and said, there's no problem at the border,
29:30
Speaker 10: and she encouraged the illegals to continue to come.
29:34
Speaker 11: Who pardon me.
29:37
Speaker 1: So, if not her, who.
29:40
Speaker 11: Kamala encouraged the illegals to come.
29:43
Speaker 1: Sorry?
29:44
Speaker 2: But who should the Democrats seek to put at the
29:47
Speaker 2: top of the ticket for this election?
29:50
Speaker 10: I really, I really believe that Biden's going to try
29:53
Speaker 10: to stick it out because when you look at look around,
29:56
Speaker 10: who can they put at the top of the ticket now?
29:59
Speaker 10: And if he were to step down during their Democrat convention,
30:04
Speaker 10: it would give others an opportunity to at least go
30:08
Speaker 10: for the position.
30:09
Speaker 11: If they want it.
30:10
Speaker 10: And I don't know if Nikki Hale is going to
30:12
Speaker 10: try to do it again. If she was given the opportunity,
30:15
Speaker 10: I think she would she.
30:17
Speaker 1: On the wrong sort, Nicki Hale, that's right?
30:20
Speaker 11: What am I thinking? I'm very I'm sorry, I'm going
30:23
Speaker 11: to confuse myself.
30:26
Speaker 10: Think of one person who would be strong enough, at
30:30
Speaker 10: least at this point to pick up the baton and
30:33
Speaker 10: carry it forward.
30:35
Speaker 1: Gretchen Whittmer. I think we'll see what happens.
30:37
Speaker 2: Well, just a bit out of time there, Barbara so
30:40
Speaker 2: We appreciate your time.
30:42
Speaker 1: Catch up again soon. Barbara back there who worked back
30:45
Speaker 1: in the Jimmy Carter White House for the Democrats.
30:50
Speaker 2: Let's bringing our panel now, Gematoniini from GT Communications and
30:53
Speaker 2: Christy McSweeney, the managing director of PR Council.
30:56
Speaker 1: Thanks both for joining me.
30:58
Speaker 2: I want to go to the nets all sort of
31:00
Speaker 2: domestic implications of all of this.
31:03
Speaker 1: Christie, we've seen a big focus.
31:04
Speaker 2: Now on how we need to be wary here, some
31:07
Speaker 2: security advisors saying that we need to be wary about
31:10
Speaker 2: political violence in this country.
31:12
Speaker 1: Now, ordinarily I wouldn't.
31:14
Speaker 2: Say that we see something shocking like this in the US,
31:16
Speaker 2: so therefore we have to be vigilant here. But we've
31:19
Speaker 2: been through a period, especially over the Gaza Israel issue,
31:23
Speaker 2: where we've seen so much vandalism, so many threats at
31:26
Speaker 2: MP's officers, and so much toxicity and hate speech in
31:29
Speaker 2: the public debate.
31:31
Speaker 1: That's understandable. There are concerns, don't you think.
31:35
Speaker 12: Politics has certainly become more binary, and that's perhaps a
31:39
Speaker 12: function of the social media infiltration and social media being
31:44
Speaker 12: used by political parties to get what was once we
31:49
Speaker 12: wanted to get an article in the newspapers now we
31:52
Speaker 12: want to make memes that are quick, that are effective,
31:57
Speaker 12: that don't have a lot of critical analysis in and
32:00
Speaker 12: that grab people on social media. People also don't join
32:05
Speaker 12: community groups as a lack of people having social bonding
32:09
Speaker 12: or community cohesion through actual formal groups, so they gravitate
32:14
Speaker 12: towards politics. But they're not joining political parties. We know
32:18
Speaker 12: that they're gravitating towards political movements to feel included, and
32:23
Speaker 12: those political movements are social media driven. So there's a
32:29
Speaker 12: number of pillars. It's not just oh, we need more
32:32
Speaker 12: security for our MPs. Perhaps the political parties need to
32:36
Speaker 12: look at what sort of communications materials they're putting out.
32:40
Speaker 12: But Chris, I fear that this narrative that's being developed
32:44
Speaker 12: here by some people on the left side of politics
32:47
Speaker 12: is a stalking horse for what was floated around the
32:50
Speaker 12: AEC being the arbiter of political truth material.
32:55
Speaker 1: That's a worry.
32:56
Speaker 2: But what we need is more respectful if not, but
32:59
Speaker 2: also wrote us political debate Gemma. And if the Democrats
33:02
Speaker 2: in the US can't see that they're part of the
33:05
Speaker 2: problem with the demonization of Trump, all they want to do.
33:08
Speaker 1: Is talk about the evil Orange man.
33:10
Speaker 2: You know they've got to accept responsibility themselves, and hopefully
33:14
Speaker 2: in this country, surely we can get onto this early
33:16
Speaker 2: enough where we just reject hate speech in political debate
33:20
Speaker 2: from either side, any side.
33:23
Speaker 5: Look, first of all, in response to the situation in
33:26
Speaker 5: the US, the Democrats can deny it or they like,
33:29
Speaker 5: they can obfuscate all they like, but they're not fooling
33:31
Speaker 5: the electorate. And that's one of the biggest mysteries to
33:35
Speaker 5: me is they cannot see the freight train that's heading
33:37
Speaker 5: for them at one thousand miles an hour and not
33:40
Speaker 5: deviating from its course. The lessons that we in Australia
33:44
Speaker 5: choose to learn or otherwise are up to us, and
33:47
Speaker 5: they're up to our political leaders. And I do believe
33:49
Speaker 5: that the Australian political landscape broadly but definitely since October seven,
33:57
Speaker 5: I mean the Prime Minister's office, correct me if I'm wrong.
34:01
Speaker 5: Electorate office remains closed because of a security threat from
34:05
Speaker 5: ongoing protesters on the Israel Gaza issue. Why does not
34:10
Speaker 5: the police come in and move them on? I mean,
34:12
Speaker 5: this is weak policing, it's weak parenting, it's weak teaching,
34:16
Speaker 5: it's weak leadership. The Sydney I believe the city Jewish
34:20
Speaker 5: museum was vandalized, or the oldest synagogue in city was
34:22
Speaker 5: vandalized over the weekend. There's all of these things happening
34:26
Speaker 5: under the Prime Minister's watch, under the state government's watches,
34:29
Speaker 5: and they're just going, oh no, everybody become yes, be calm,
34:32
Speaker 5: but for goodness sake, show some consequences to these actions.
34:35
Speaker 1: When there are no.
34:36
Speaker 5: Consequences, people feel in bold and it's not complicated.
34:39
Speaker 1: You're so right, Jemsie, this is the problem, Christy.
34:42
Speaker 13: That.
34:42
Speaker 2: But if you don't draw a line somewhere the law
34:44
Speaker 2: that we just have, the mob rule, you have.
34:47
Speaker 1: To be able to ensure.
34:48
Speaker 2: That the Prime Minister's electorate office does function.
34:51
Speaker 1: And we have people preaching.
34:53
Speaker 2: Gas the Jews or where's the Jews and celebrating the
34:56
Speaker 2: death of innocent people in Israel on our streets, then
34:59
Speaker 2: they need to be the prosecuted, at least for hate speech.
35:04
Speaker 12: They certainly do. And it's one thing to do untold
35:07
Speaker 12: press conferences around social cohesion, but it's another thing to
35:13
Speaker 12: not seek a mandate with police and to enforce the
35:16
Speaker 12: laws that we already have so that people understand that
35:21
Speaker 12: that's not acceptable. So a weakness of the government's role
35:25
Speaker 12: and responsibility. As has been mentioned, is a lot to
35:29
Speaker 12: blame for how people think they can mobilize, they can activate,
35:33
Speaker 12: they can organize. I live in sin Kilda East. The
35:36
Speaker 12: police and the Victorian State government did not stop protests
35:40
Speaker 12: in a park on Shabbat Friday next to a synagogue.
35:45
Speaker 12: That is not acceptable. Those protests turned out to be
35:50
Speaker 12: verging on violent, but they are certainly uncomfortable and upsetting
35:55
Speaker 12: for what is a predominantly Jewish suburb. So if that's
35:58
Speaker 12: allowed to happen, there is a blockage in the supply
36:02
Speaker 12: chain somewhere between a press conference on social cohesion and
36:06
Speaker 12: filtering down to the community that that's not acceptable.
36:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a worry.
36:11
Speaker 2: We'll keep discussing these issues in the weeks and months
36:14
Speaker 2: to come.
36:15
Speaker 1: I want to go to some pleasant news.
36:16
Speaker 2: This will be very pleasing news for a good MATEI
36:19
Speaker 2: of yours, Gemma, Caroline Derusso and the Royal Report, and
36:23
Speaker 2: that is that King Charles and Queen Camilla are coming
36:26
Speaker 2: to Australia. It was in jeopardy of course because of
36:29
Speaker 2: his cancer treatment, but good news that he's going to
36:31
Speaker 2: make it.
36:32
Speaker 5: I think it's great and I think the Australian people
36:35
Speaker 5: more or less are very ambivalent around the Republic. I
36:38
Speaker 5: think the Republican issue is largely an elitist issue, and
36:41
Speaker 5: I think it's the sort of issue people can wring
36:44
Speaker 5: their hands over when they're not worried about paying their bills,
36:46
Speaker 5: running their businesses and sending their kids to school. I
36:49
Speaker 5: think most Australians, whether I mean I'm personally agnostic, I'm like,
36:52
Speaker 5: if it's not not broke, don't fix it. And working
36:55
Speaker 5: Royals work hard, and I certainly wouldn't want to be
36:57
Speaker 5: out pressing the flesh twenty four seven.
36:59
Speaker 1: I'm not that patient.
37:00
Speaker 5: But it's going to be great for Australia. I think
37:03
Speaker 5: it's going to be great for morale. The royal family
37:06
Speaker 5: have a really important connection with this country. I for one,
37:09
Speaker 5: am here for it.
37:10
Speaker 2: Chris, Yeah, well, it's going to be interesting to watch.
37:12
Speaker 2: Of course, he's well known to Australia, he knows Australia well,
37:15
Speaker 2: but to come out here as the ruling monarch will
37:17
Speaker 2: be something very different. Of thoughts, especially with Queen Camilla.
37:21
Speaker 2: Just before I come for your thoughts, Christy, I want
37:23
Speaker 2: to show what happened at wimbled and overnight because another
37:26
Speaker 2: royal who's had a tough battle ongoing battle with cancer
37:29
Speaker 2: is Kate. Of course she turned up and have a
37:31
Speaker 2: look at the reception she got from the crowd. Princasic ways, Yeah, fantastic,
37:49
Speaker 2: the Princess of Wales. Of course I always got these
37:51
Speaker 2: titles mixed up, but fantastic to see her, you know,
37:56
Speaker 2: looking thin but happy and out in about and obviously
37:59
Speaker 2: embraced by the crowd.
38:00
Speaker 12: Christy, She's a shining star for England and the UK
38:06
Speaker 12: and the Commonwealth.
38:07
Speaker 10: And for Australia.
38:08
Speaker 12: Australia loves Kate and if she ever has an online
38:12
Speaker 12: auction of her dresses, I am going to stay up
38:16
Speaker 12: all night so I can be first online to get them.
38:19
Speaker 12: And as I always say, white to young girls, what
38:22
Speaker 12: a copy fitness influences and reality TV stars and people
38:27
Speaker 12: verging on not doing a great thing for their public
38:31
Speaker 12: personality when there are women like Princess Kate out there
38:35
Speaker 12: as role models to young girls.
38:37
Speaker 2: Just a quick hit from you if I could Gemma
38:39
Speaker 2: on social media. This debate's going on, not just in Australia,
38:42
Speaker 2: around the world about limiting the exposure of teenagers to
38:46
Speaker 2: social media. People seem to think from sixteen onwards is good.
38:49
Speaker 2: I hope I can keep my kins off it, my
38:51
Speaker 2: little ones off it till sixteen. But are you on
38:54
Speaker 2: board with This's going to be very hard to police,
38:56
Speaker 2: so we know that people will get around it.
38:57
Speaker 1: But is there any merit in all of this?
39:00
Speaker 5: Well, the bank of evidence is irrefutable about the damage
39:03
Speaker 5: that too much social media does to teenagers. It's not
39:07
Speaker 5: even up for debate anymore. So the issue is our
39:10
Speaker 5: parents prepared to parent, our caregiver is prepared to draw
39:13
Speaker 5: a line in sand And, as I wrote in my
39:15
Speaker 5: weekend column, Chris, are they prepared to say, jem I
39:17
Speaker 5: hate me as much as you like. This is what
39:19
Speaker 5: my mother said to me many moons ago. But you'll
39:22
Speaker 5: think me one day. It's not just the legislation, it's
39:25
Speaker 5: the enforcement of the same thing.
39:27
Speaker 1: I got to say.
39:28
Speaker 2: I was at the Swaneas on the Saturday afternoon with
39:30
Speaker 2: my kids and I looked across and there was three
39:34
Speaker 2: three twelve year olds. One of them was watching the footy,
39:36
Speaker 2: the other two were looking at their phones. I think
39:39
Speaker 2: this is not the way the world is supposed to be. Now,
39:41
Speaker 2: I've got to show you both something now. It falls
39:43
Speaker 2: into that you're only in Australia category. And I'm not
39:46
Speaker 2: doing this just so it can be clipped up and
39:48
Speaker 2: go nuts on YouTube in the US.
39:50
Speaker 1: I'm doing this because we need some happy news.
39:52
Speaker 2: Have a look at this footy match in Wa and
39:56
Speaker 2: how it was invaded not by a crowd but by
39:59
Speaker 2: this mob. You know, I've seen the rus on the
40:11
Speaker 2: footy field every now and then, but your.
40:13
Speaker 1: Neck of the woods.
40:13
Speaker 2: Actually you're both Western Australians, aren't you, Christian. But a
40:17
Speaker 2: mob of emu is running around now. They got their
40:19
Speaker 2: brains like peas. It's like letting an extra bunch of
40:23
Speaker 2: under eights onto the field.
40:28
Speaker 12: Well, Chris, look, I grew up in regional Western Australia,
40:31
Speaker 12: so I have attended many a country footy match with kangaroos.
40:34
Speaker 12: I'm sure I've seen it EMEO in my time. It's
40:37
Speaker 12: not uncommon, of course, if you're watching from the US,
40:39
Speaker 12: it happens all the time.
40:41
Speaker 1: Fit.
40:42
Speaker 2: Indeed, thanks for joining us, guys. I'll catch up with
40:44
Speaker 2: you next week. Christiy McSweeney and Jemma Tanyini. Now I
40:48
Speaker 2: want to go on to a very special story for today,
40:50
Speaker 2: because it is sixty years ago. This very day that
40:53
Speaker 2: from an operation in camera, the very first edition of
40:57
Speaker 2: the Australian Newspaper rolled off the presses. It was an
41:00
Speaker 2: audacious move by Rupert Murdoch to create our first national newspaper,
41:05
Speaker 2: and through thick and thin, it has survived sixty years.
41:09
Speaker 2: Here it is and tonight on Sky we of course
41:12
Speaker 2: are running our documentary that.
41:14
Speaker 1: Tells this story.
41:15
Speaker 2: Have a look at this footage that we including the
41:17
Speaker 2: documentary way back from nineteen sixty four.
41:22
Speaker 9: Well, he has this great ability as a managing director
41:25
Speaker 9: to get into the detail of the organization.
41:30
Speaker 1: He carries us to extraordinary links.
41:34
Speaker 11: In the first four or five.
41:36
Speaker 10: Months probably I think up until the time I left
41:38
Speaker 10: this day, Rupert would quite.
41:39
Speaker 13: Often be seen down on the stone making up the paper.
41:45
Speaker 1: Incredible stuff.
41:46
Speaker 2: So much has changed in sixty years and plenty has
41:48
Speaker 2: stayed the same.
41:49
Speaker 1: Two. Let me bring in the former.
41:50
Speaker 2: Editor in chief of the Australian Newspaper, Chris Mitchell.
41:53
Speaker 1: Chris, great to see you again. Thanks for having when
41:56
Speaker 1: you see that.
41:56
Speaker 2: Old footage and you and I have talked about this
41:58
Speaker 2: for the documentary. What an audacious move in nineteen sixty four.
42:02
Speaker 2: We can't imagine Australia without a national newspaper now, but
42:05
Speaker 2: to go to Canberra and to set this thing up
42:08
Speaker 2: from scratch, the potential for failure must have been immense.
42:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
42:12
Speaker 13: I mean in those days, printing presses all live downstairs
42:15
Speaker 13: inside newspaper offices.
42:17
Speaker 1: The idea that you.
42:18
Speaker 13: Would take the forms from Canberra to Sydney for printing
42:22
Speaker 13: and then distribution around the nation, this was indeed audacious.
42:25
Speaker 13: So maybe sixty years ahead of its time.
42:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well it's lasted now.
42:29
Speaker 2: Now you're an editor in chief for a long period,
42:31
Speaker 2: and really an important period because you oversaw the digital transition,
42:36
Speaker 2: if you like, massive threat to newspapers now the Australian
42:40
Speaker 2: the obviously always difficult to make a national newspaper venture
42:45
Speaker 2: financially viable. The challenge of the digital onslaught affected all newspapers.
42:51
Speaker 2: So how did you get through that and how are
42:55
Speaker 2: the rest of the newspaper world faring in that battle?
42:59
Speaker 13: Well, I guess there's only two papers in our country
43:01
Speaker 13: that are sort of hard paywalled, and that's us in
43:04
Speaker 13: the Thin Review, and we sort of took the view,
43:07
Speaker 13: I think back in twenty eleven that we had a
43:09
Speaker 13: lot of unique content and that we could afford to
43:12
Speaker 13: charge for it. I think it's harder for papers like
43:14
Speaker 13: the Sidney Morning Herald, city based papers where the news
43:17
Speaker 13: on a given day they might have a big exclusive story,
43:20
Speaker 13: as they have done this week, but generally the news
43:23
Speaker 13: is pretty interchangeable between the three TV Freeedom Wears, the
43:27
Speaker 13: Telly and the Sydney Morning Herald. There's a lot of
43:30
Speaker 13: overlap between them all and in fact, increasingly as we
43:33
Speaker 13: go on, between all the city based papers, a lot
43:36
Speaker 13: of the pagination looks the same. So I think that
43:39
Speaker 13: makes it quite important for the ods to try to
43:41
Speaker 13: be unique, to try to break stories, to have a
43:45
Speaker 13: unique opinion where it can.
43:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I worked for you. You employed me at the odds,
43:49
Speaker 1: so you're the reason I ended up working very good
43:51
Speaker 1: decision on you. It was a great step for me,
43:55
Speaker 1: that's for sure. Tell me explain to us, explaining to
43:57
Speaker 1: the audience.
43:58
Speaker 2: What's different about the ethos or the mission of The
44:02
Speaker 2: Australian compared to other media organizations in the country.
44:05
Speaker 13: Well, I think, first the national thing. So you know,
44:08
Speaker 13: as we say in the doco Tonight, as Rupert says
44:11
Speaker 13: talking to Paul Whitaker, you know his father even had
44:14
Speaker 13: an idea for a national newspaper, and I think Rupert
44:17
Speaker 13: felt the country was parochial, that this was a new thing,
44:21
Speaker 13: that he could create a newspaper that was outward looking,
44:25
Speaker 13: that had a sense of where the country needed to go.
44:28
Speaker 13: And I think that's what it's always tried to do.
44:30
Speaker 2: It's helped in that process, as and obviously other factors
44:33
Speaker 2: at play, changes of government and other social changes. But
44:36
Speaker 2: do you think it's actually helped push the nation along?
44:39
Speaker 13: I do, And look, I think it's an interesting thing
44:42
Speaker 13: to reflect on what the country would be like without it.
44:44
Speaker 13: It seems to me that the big national media organizations
44:47
Speaker 13: these days, especially digital, are all center left or far left.
44:52
Speaker 13: There's really not much in the center or the center
44:54
Speaker 13: right now. It seems to me the two big institutions
44:58
Speaker 13: debating national policy is are the ABC and the Australian,
45:02
Speaker 13: which is one of the reasons, you know, the ABC
45:04
Speaker 13: and a lot of left wing people absolutely hate the Australian. Yep,
45:07
Speaker 13: you know, I think it's pretty clear why.
45:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
45:10
Speaker 2: Let me go to one of those big issues, because
45:12
Speaker 2: part of the documentary is a fantastic interview material where
45:16
Speaker 2: Paul Whitaker, former editor in chief of the Australian who
45:19
Speaker 2: succeeded you now CEO of Sky News. He interviewed Rupert
45:22
Speaker 2: Murdoch and we've got Rupert Murdoch's thoughts on the Australian
45:25
Speaker 2: and the history and also contemporary issues.
45:28
Speaker 1: Let's have a list of.
45:29
Speaker 2: Rupert Murdoch on net zero, the climate change challenge.
45:34
Speaker 8: Do you think the net zero targets are achievable?
45:38
Speaker 1: No, I think we're absolutely on the wrong trail.
45:40
Speaker 9: I'm not a climate denier.
45:43
Speaker 1: I may bee a skeptic of some of the things
45:46
Speaker 1: that has said.
45:47
Speaker 9: But you're going to have black house, You're going to
45:49
Speaker 9: have kite of living will go up all over the world.
45:55
Speaker 1: There we go, now, Chris Mitchell.
45:56
Speaker 2: Also the climate debate, the net zero debates, one that
45:59
Speaker 2: really unfold over.
46:00
Speaker 1: Your period as editor in chief.
46:03
Speaker 2: How much of a role has the Australian played in
46:05
Speaker 2: that just to question the policy responses or question the
46:09
Speaker 2: way some of the sciences related tracks the labeled denier.
46:13
Speaker 1: How have you dealt with that debate and how important
46:15
Speaker 1: is it?
46:15
Speaker 10: Well?
46:15
Speaker 13: I think you know, as you know, whole books have
46:17
Speaker 13: been written about it, and you know you and I
46:19
Speaker 13: have been defamed.
46:20
Speaker 4: Regularly in any of these books.
46:22
Speaker 13: But it seems to me that, you know, the truth is,
46:24
Speaker 13: the debate is shifting and people are now looking at cost,
46:28
Speaker 13: and people are seeing that in fact, you know, renewables
46:31
Speaker 13: are not as cheap as we thought they were. That
46:33
Speaker 13: when you factor in back up and wind and rolling
46:36
Speaker 13: out an extra between ten and twenty eight thousand kilometers
46:39
Speaker 13: of power lines, things don't look quiet as cheap as
46:42
Speaker 13: they maybe did. So it seems to me that Rupert's
46:45
Speaker 13: quite right in the show here. We are killing ourselves
46:49
Speaker 13: to get to net zero and eighty two percent renewables
46:52
Speaker 13: at a time when CO two is rising around the
46:55
Speaker 13: rest of the world. You know, So even if we,
46:59
Speaker 13: you know, in the Greens would love us to do this,
47:00
Speaker 13: even if we stopped exporting coal and gas, that doesn't
47:03
Speaker 13: mean that China and India and Russia would stop burning it.
47:07
Speaker 13: They just get dirtier coal and gas from other places.
47:10
Speaker 13: So we do have to ask ourselves, you know, is
47:12
Speaker 13: there much to be gained for the planet in getting
47:14
Speaker 13: ahead of the rest of the world.
47:17
Speaker 2: Now, just finally, then, will the OS be around in
47:19
Speaker 2: sixty years, whether it's on tablets, on computers or some
47:21
Speaker 2: other form.
47:22
Speaker 13: Well, look, I notice in the doco. Rupert says that
47:25
Speaker 13: he thinks the print edition will be around for another
47:27
Speaker 13: fifteen so that's very interesting. I think a lot of
47:30
Speaker 13: people thought print was dead ten or fifteen years ago,
47:33
Speaker 13: so and it seems to me that there's still quite
47:36
Speaker 13: a lot of revenue in the print edition. So I
47:38
Speaker 13: think if you look at our city based cousins got
47:41
Speaker 13: all those big domain ads, there's plenty there. So look,
47:44
Speaker 13: I think digital papers will be around forever. I think
47:47
Speaker 13: Paul Kelly says that the OS is forever, and I
47:50
Speaker 13: certainly think there's a long time ahead for the print
47:53
Speaker 13: editions as well.
47:54
Speaker 1: Great to talk to again, Chris, thanks for being part
47:56
Speaker 1: of the DOCA. Thank you, Matte. Catch up next time.
47:58
Speaker 2: Chris Mitchell their former editor chief of The Australian. He's
48:01
Speaker 2: part of the program tonight eight o'clock here on sc News. Now,
48:04
Speaker 2: let's return to the United States and Democrats and many
48:07
Speaker 2: journalists have demon a is Trump for years. Of course,
48:10
Speaker 2: as I've been signing that, I've consistently wretcheted up there, Ritrick,
48:13
Speaker 2: especially as November's election looms.
48:16
Speaker 1: Have a look at this.
48:18
Speaker 7: He's running against a man who is an existential threat.
48:22
Speaker 7: Donald Trump is a plague on the American conscience and
48:27
Speaker 7: the American nation.
48:28
Speaker 6: Donald Trump is an existential threat that the antidote to
48:32
Speaker 6: whom the antidote is Joe Biden. I think that Donald
48:34
Speaker 6: Trump is the most great threat that we will face
48:39
Speaker 6: faced our democracy in our lifetime.
48:41
Speaker 13: We have to make the case donald Trump does continue
48:44
Speaker 13: to pose an existential threat to our democracy.
48:46
Speaker 14: Trump is a existential, urgent threat to our democracy.
48:50
Speaker 7: Donald Trump cannot be president again.
48:54
Speaker 11: He's an excellent to preat to democracy.
48:58
Speaker 7: We got to focus on the greatest right to American
49:00
Speaker 7: democracy that we have ever seen, and that is in
49:04
Speaker 7: Donald Trump.
49:04
Speaker 1: I'm me now.
49:06
Speaker 2: Obviously, the person who carries the blind for the attempted
49:09
Speaker 2: assassination of Donald Trump is the gunman. But as I
49:12
Speaker 2: put to Christen Tite, there's been a vitriolic environment created
49:15
Speaker 2: with Trump on the end of an unprecedented level of
49:18
Speaker 2: hatred from the political lift.
49:21
Speaker 6: Yes, the ruling class and their ilk and in corporate
49:24
Speaker 6: media have a seeving hatred of Donald Trump because he
49:27
Speaker 6: single handedly exposed the swamp as a cabal of unaccountable,
49:31
Speaker 6: power hungry elites, and more and more ordinary Americans Chris
49:35
Speaker 6: are starting to think in some way or form that
49:37
Speaker 6: the government and the media are indirectly responsible for this
49:41
Speaker 6: assassination attempt. We have been told four years that Donald
49:44
Speaker 6: Trump and his supporters are white nationalist Nazis. On July eighth,
49:49
Speaker 6: twenty twenty four, President Joe Biden said, we are done
49:52
Speaker 6: talking about the debate. It is time to put Trump
49:56
Speaker 6: in a bullseye. They tried to keep Trump off the ballot.
49:59
Speaker 6: They tried to lander him and his family. They tried
50:01
Speaker 6: to take his properties away from him. They tried to
50:04
Speaker 6: throw him in jail on bogus charges. None of it worked,
50:07
Speaker 6: and he only got stronger. So what is the next step? Assassination?
50:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to repeat again the person to blame here,
50:14
Speaker 2: of course is the shooter, but everybody involved in the
50:17
Speaker 2: political debate is responsible for the tone and the level
50:21
Speaker 2: of hatred and some of the language around this has
50:23
Speaker 2: been irresponsible and it creates a horrible environment. And even
50:28
Speaker 2: since the assassination attempt, there have been some journalists in
50:31
Speaker 2: the US and even in Australia sort of flippantly joking
50:34
Speaker 2: that they wish there was a better aim from the shooter.
50:37
Speaker 2: It's just unthinkable the sort of hatred that is bandied
50:40
Speaker 2: about Yet after three goes at making a statement to
50:44
Speaker 2: the nation on the back of this attempted assassination, the
50:47
Speaker 2: President for the third time had a crack at it
50:50
Speaker 2: today our time, and he asked people to tone it down.
50:54
Speaker 1: Have a look.
50:56
Speaker 4: You know, the political record in this country has gotten
50:59
Speaker 4: very heated. It's time to cool it down.
51:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, tie it down from the president. But to me, Christian,
51:05
Speaker 2: this is still not enough. He has to accept that
51:08
Speaker 2: his own side of politics. Sure, he can say the
51:11
Speaker 2: Republicans and the Trump supporters have been to two extreme
51:15
Speaker 2: at times as well, but he needs to accept the
51:18
Speaker 2: responsibility himself and that the Democrats and their supporters have
51:22
Speaker 2: injected too much hatred and toxicity into the political debate.
51:27
Speaker 6: Yes, I mean the left has encouraged for years now
51:30
Speaker 6: a culture of hatred and at times violence against Conservatives.
51:35
Speaker 6: Years ago, a former Attorney General Eric Holder said of conservatives,
51:39
Speaker 6: when they go low, we kick them. Maxine Waters hold
51:42
Speaker 6: her supporters to go into restaurants and other public places
51:45
Speaker 6: and shout out Trump administration officials in public. Antifa regularly
51:50
Speaker 6: beats their political opponents in the streets of Portland with crowbars.
51:54
Speaker 6: LM torched the streets with impunity in America for months
51:59
Speaker 6: in twenty seventeen and Steve Scaleze, or Republican, was shot
52:02
Speaker 6: at a congressional baseball game.
52:04
Speaker 11: I mean, the left is watching.
52:06
Speaker 6: Their own base of voters devolve into a mob of angry,
52:10
Speaker 6: violent criminals in many cases, and there is no effort
52:15
Speaker 6: on the left that I've seen, no meaningful effort at
52:17
Speaker 6: least to shine a spotlight on that. We all want
52:20
Speaker 6: to de escalate the rhetoric. We all want peace, and
52:23
Speaker 6: we want the radicalism and the violence and the hatred
52:26
Speaker 6: to stop. But we're not seeing that ball from our
52:29
Speaker 6: leaders right now.
52:30
Speaker 11: And it's tragic.
52:32
Speaker 2: Yet we've seen from Joe Biden and threw him from
52:35
Speaker 2: the first lady Jill Biden, some level of personal respect
52:40
Speaker 2: afforded to Donald Trump.
52:41
Speaker 1: Have a look.
52:43
Speaker 4: Last night I spoke with Donald Trump. I'm so surely
52:48
Speaker 4: grateful that he's doing well and recovery, and we had
52:52
Speaker 4: a short but good conversation. Joe and I are keeping
52:56
Speaker 4: him and his family and our prayers.
53:00
Speaker 2: Even the level of invective and hatred in the debate,
53:02
Speaker 2: I just wonder how those words will be taken. I
53:05
Speaker 2: would have loved to have heard that short conversation. But
53:08
Speaker 2: my question goes to the president. Christian There's been some
53:12
Speaker 2: speculation that these events of the last forty eight hours
53:15
Speaker 2: mean that he's a lock now to stay in and
53:18
Speaker 2: contest for a second term, that it changes everything, Whereas
53:22
Speaker 2: I've got to say I.
53:23
Speaker 1: See it a little bit differently.
53:24
Speaker 2: I think the volatility of the last forty eight hours
53:27
Speaker 2: guarantees that will see more volatility. Perhaps the only way
53:31
Speaker 2: to break this cycle for the Democrats will be for
53:34
Speaker 2: them to, whether it's now or at the convention just
53:38
Speaker 2: over a month from now, actually.
53:40
Speaker 1: Find a new candidate for this election. What are your thoughts?
53:44
Speaker 6: I could not agree with you more, Chris. The events
53:47
Speaker 6: over the last twenty four hours were absolutely tragic. They
53:50
Speaker 6: were horrific, but politically speaking, they are very beneficial to
53:55
Speaker 6: Donald Trump. I am getting called and texts for people
53:58
Speaker 6: I haven't heard from in over a decade, Liberals, Democrats,
54:02
Speaker 6: independents telling me that they respect Donald Trump's strength in
54:06
Speaker 6: that moment. Some of them have said I'm even going
54:08
Speaker 6: to vote for Donald Trump now. What he did was inspiring.
54:12
Speaker 6: That was an iconic image, seeing him raise his fists
54:15
Speaker 6: like that after being shot and telling Americans to fight
54:17
Speaker 6: fight for their country. So the left, they are more
54:21
Speaker 6: desperate than ever now to get Biden out of there
54:23
Speaker 6: will their tactics to replace and change, Of course they will.
54:26
Speaker 6: I think you will see a quieting of that public
54:28
Speaker 6: conversation over the next few weeks. We won't hear much
54:31
Speaker 6: about it, but you better believe behind closed doors they
54:34
Speaker 6: are talking about the best way to do that. And
54:37
Speaker 6: I tend to agree with you that it will probably
54:39
Speaker 6: happen at or around the convention. Joe Biden will probably
54:42
Speaker 6: get up there and graciously say that he is willingly
54:46
Speaker 6: stepping down for the good of the country, for his family,
54:48
Speaker 6: for his health, to focus on those things, and then
54:51
Speaker 6: the Democrats can quietly usher in their preferred candidate.
54:55
Speaker 1: Fascinating times. Thanks so much again, Christin for keeping us
54:59
Speaker 1: up to day.
55:01
Speaker 6: Thank you so much, Chris.
55:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kristen Tate there in the US. Look, I've got
55:05
Speaker 2: to apologize to you. Many of you will have missed
55:07
Speaker 2: out on large elements of the first part of the program,
55:10
Speaker 2: my Cracking editorial and my interview with Bob Carr and
55:13
Speaker 2: Barbara Heine Back. Let you know that that'll be available
55:17
Speaker 2: on the Sky News app.
55:19
Speaker 1: It'll be replayed on.
55:20
Speaker 2: The election channel as well, so you can catch up
55:22
Speaker 2: on it all on our YouTube feeds if you can
55:24
Speaker 2: catch up with that editorial and interviews. Hopefully you can
55:27
Speaker 2: do so. Apologies, there was a bit of a technical difficulty.
55:30
Speaker 2: Now let's go to other media issues though, with Sophie Ellsworth.
55:33
Speaker 1: Sophie Ellsworth is the media writer for The Australian sixty
55:37
Speaker 1: years Today. I'll tell you what, Sophie.
55:40
Speaker 2: You know, when you think about the big stories of
55:42
Speaker 2: the decades and over sixty years, the odds front page
55:47
Speaker 2: today with that Trump survives as a massive story to
55:52
Speaker 2: have on the front page in the sixtieth anniversary of
55:55
Speaker 2: your newspaper.
55:55
Speaker 1: Wasn't it? Absolutely Chris?
55:59
Speaker 15: What I photo that will be etched in our minds forever.
56:03
Speaker 15: I mean, this is history in the making, despite how
56:07
Speaker 15: serious and how grim that situation was with Donald Trump.
56:12
Speaker 15: But yes, what a fantastic celebration sixty years of the Australian.
56:16
Speaker 15: I'm pleased to have been part of the Australian now
56:19
Speaker 15: for nearly four years myself. But there's so many tales
56:23
Speaker 15: to tell, Chris that we've been rolling out in the
56:25
Speaker 15: paper in recent weeks and months about the sixties anniversary,
56:30
Speaker 15: and I really look forward, Chris, to your documentary tonight,
56:33
Speaker 15: which I'm very anxiously waiting to watch.
56:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I might grab myself a bottler red on the
56:37
Speaker 2: way home, sit back and watch that one too.
56:39
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to it too. So I'll tell you
56:42
Speaker 1: one of the stories I.
56:42
Speaker 2: Read in the OS this afternoon, during a frantic afternoon
56:46
Speaker 2: talking about that iconic photo was a story about the
56:48
Speaker 2: photographer and how we took that photo in the Pennsylvania
56:52
Speaker 2: on Saturday. So I recommend that one to people tell
56:55
Speaker 2: us about other media. I read in your diary today
56:58
Speaker 2: that Channel ten apparently, I reckon. Are they not seem
57:01
Speaker 2: to be very slow and shifting to the biggest news
57:04
Speaker 2: story of the last few months at least?
57:08
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Chris.
57:09
Speaker 15: Look, they were asleep at the wheel yesterday with one
57:12
Speaker 15: of the biggest news stories globally this year, with the
57:17
Speaker 15: assassination attempt of Donald Trump. But if you're watching Channel
57:20
Speaker 15: ten yesterday morning, you'd be treated to a cooking show
57:24
Speaker 15: and the Barrymore Show. Until an hour and a half
57:28
Speaker 15: after first media outlets reporting this assassination attempt did Channel
57:33
Speaker 15: ten someone in there decide it was time to switch
57:36
Speaker 15: to their parent CBS channel and tune into the breaking
57:41
Speaker 15: news there. I mean, this is really appalling when you
57:43
Speaker 15: have a breaking news story of this scale and not
57:47
Speaker 15: to have anything but instead worrying about cooking shows. Just
57:51
Speaker 15: shows how bad the ten news element is of that network.
57:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got to remember the news matters and people
57:58
Speaker 2: need to know about this stuff.
57:59
Speaker 1: Speaking about news matters.
58:00
Speaker 2: Another great story in the media section today was Stan Grant.
58:03
Speaker 2: I used to work with sand here at SKY. I've
58:05
Speaker 2: been in touch with him a bit at the ABC.
58:07
Speaker 2: He's left the media completely the daily news cycle, and
58:11
Speaker 2: he says life's never been better.
58:15
Speaker 1: He has Chris.
58:16
Speaker 15: He spoke last week as part of an oration for
58:20
Speaker 15: SBS News Channel, and he said, yes, he's never been
58:23
Speaker 15: happier since he's left the media after forty years. He
58:27
Speaker 15: said he doesn't consume the six pm nightly bulletin.
58:30
Speaker 1: It's far too grim. There should be.
58:32
Speaker 15: More positive news and he's basically checked out of the
58:35
Speaker 15: media landscape. He's saying pretty much in full Now. This
58:39
Speaker 15: is coming from a man who had an entire career
58:42
Speaker 15: forty odd years in the media, was hosts of many
58:45
Speaker 15: shows up until he left the ABC. He was hosting
58:48
Speaker 15: Q and A and He also said, Chris, he doesn't
58:51
Speaker 15: like the format of those shows, which is quite a
58:53
Speaker 15: ronic given he was the host of Q and A.
58:55
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the ABC doesn't like them either, because they've
58:58
Speaker 2: scrapt it in favor of sport Chat Show.
59:00
Speaker 1: Anyway, we're nearly out of time.
59:02
Speaker 2: I've got to have a look at this though, because
59:03
Speaker 2: this cracks me out, a former ABC satirist that have
59:06
Speaker 2: put him on Channel seven as a funny guy like
59:09
Speaker 2: we used to make fun of in Frontline.
59:11
Speaker 1: Have a look. Mark Humphrey's is his name.
59:14
Speaker 13: Now.
59:15
Speaker 14: I'm not a doctor, but on a very good day
59:16
Speaker 14: I almost look like one. And it's clear to me that,
59:20
Speaker 14: medically speaking, Joe Biden might be suffering from a condition neurologists.
59:24
Speaker 1: Call that guy old.
59:26
Speaker 14: Signs of that guy old may include confusing names, long pauses,
59:31
Speaker 14: and keeping your mouth just that little bit open with
59:34
Speaker 14: that slightly disappointed look like Bunning's just told you the
59:37
Speaker 14: sausage sizzle has closed. Unfortunately, that guy old only becomes
59:42
Speaker 14: more severe than more. That guy get.
59:44
Speaker 1: Old, Sophie.
59:46
Speaker 2: We've got no time to discuss it, but the basic
59:48
Speaker 2: problem here is it's not funny.
59:52
Speaker 1: I didn't laugh. Chris I'm sorry to say great Stu.
59:55
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Sophia. I appreciate it. Sophia's worth
59:57
Speaker 2: the read her stuff in The Australian.
1:00:00
Speaker 1: Forget. I'll be back at eight o'clock with the story
1:00:02
Speaker 1: of the Australians sixty years. Here's Peter