Latest / Becoming Flame: Where Sensuality, Sovereignty, and Sacred Power Ignite / Why Do High Performing Women Feel Numb in Intimacy with Katy Orah

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Why Do High Performing Women Feel Numb in Intimacy with Katy Orah · Becoming Flame: Where Sensuality, Sovereignty, and Sacred Power Ignite

• Kait Tregenza: This episode of Becoming Flame is brought to you by Phenxx. Phenxx is a ritual luxury house devoted to erotic feminine embodiment. We create alchemical intimacy oils and functional fragrances infused with spagyric botanicals designed to soften the nervous system, open the body, and awaken life force vitality. Our formulations are crafted as tools of self-initiation. They are not cosmetic. They are not decorative. They are designed to be felt. They are designed to shift. Each oil facilitates a cellular shift into relaxation and receptivity, activating and opening up an archetypal femininity that your body knows and is yearning to step into. These oils allow the body to open safely into sensual intelligence, magnetism and creative power. They open the libido and open creative sexual energy. When the body is safe, it softens. When it softens, it receives. When it receives, it creates. And when it creates, the entire world shifts. We believe that women who sit deeply in their bodies, in their erotic intelligence and sovereignty, become powerful creators of their lives and the environments around them. Our products are initiations into that coherence. Luxury in experience. Devotional in use. Transformational in effect. Get yours now at phenxx.com That's P-H-E-N. xx.com Today's is for the woman who looks like she has it all together. She's capable, ⁓ she's self-aware, she gets done. She's one people on. She knows how to lead, perform, support, achieve, and just keep Sounds like you? But underneath all of that competence, there can be another truth living in the body. That numbness, that disconnection, that exhaustion, the loss of desire, a loss of softness and just a loss of feelings. You might get to the end of the day and think, all I have done today is tell somebody else what to do get through a million things myself. So she's always on, she's always doing, she's always thinking about what's next, who do I need to manage, what do I need to do for them it's go, go, go. And you know what's so funny ⁓ that so many women carry shame around that. They think that something is wrong with them because they feel present in intimacy anymore because they're so busy doing everything, keeping those spinning. Because even though they can manage a business, they can manage a household, they can manage a life, a social life, they can keep all their kids in order, they can keep their on track, they can do all these things. But when it comes to self, when it comes to pleasure, when it comes to intimacy, to closeness, to turn on or emotional they don't seem be able to ⁓ access that in way that they want to. And so today really what we're going to talk about is what numbness? What is protection? Why has the body gone offline? Why can it not stay open? It's going to be such a fascinating conversation today. I'm joined by Katy Orah. She is intimacy and relationship coach and she's here talk about the hidden cost. of being high functioning in a world that rewards women for over giving. rewarded for over performing from disconnecting from the body, ⁓ ⁓ very There are enormous rewards for that. What are the rewards for opening to intimacy? What are the rewards for being enabling yourself to come into pleasure, to come into openness, stop self abandoning, to stop doing all the things for everybody else and to build nervous system capacity, to desire, to build emotional connection, softness, to take down armor ⁓ and really I guess the question is what, does it take for women to come back into that intimacy with self? How can she connect with her? And while this will be a conversation about sex in relationships because she's a sex in relationship coach, ultimately an intimacy coach. And so it's not just a conversation about sex in relationships. It's a conversation about what happens when woman comes so good holding together that she can't even feel herself anymore. And just so much to unpack in this conversation. So let's get into it. Let welcome to the podcast, Katie Orah Katie. Hi, nice to nice to have you here. Katy: Thank you, I'm excited to be here. I think this is gonna be really juicy for a lot of women out there. Kait Tregenza: Yes. let's dive in. Let's just go straight into it. We've got, you know, we've got so much to unpack in such a short period of time. So let's start with the hard hitting journalistic question. Why do high performing women go numb intimacy? Why can they do ⁓ everything outside them? And then they struggle here in this in, in connection to self into connection. with and and safety and and exhilaration and life force. What's the disconnect? Katy: And they are exactly the words that we want, like pleasure, joy, like we want more of that. And simply because high achieving, performing women are just switched off from the body. They are constantly living up in their head, schedules, Google meets, thinking about. you know, picking the kids up, what's for tea, are the school bags packed, you know, many appointments have I got tomorrow? There's so much go, go, go. There's no time for the actual body to feel. And this like, ⁓ the nervous system, it creates so much pressure. And if a woman has lived like this all of her life, because in a lot of women in high achieving women, I see in often, you know, 15 year marriages where they've met, they've had the relationship, they've had the children, they've been really focused in the career and... Nowhere in these past 15 years has been any time was like, well, what about me and my body? And it becomes a pattern. So women are just in a pattern of waking up, using the phone, answering the emails, going to work, picking the kids up, coming home. by the time they get home at the end of the day, of course they've got no time and they just feel exhausted in themselves because their body's just switched off. And it's such a big one for having a switched off body that really kills the arousal. Women don't think or... they can actually have pleasure or they don't deserve it because they haven't experienced it for such, such a long time. And this is why I love these topics and actually bringing that back because pleasure is there for everybody. Kait Tregenza: Mm. I think the, think the challenge for a lot of like, you've just described a scenario that sounds impossible to get out of, right? So how do you start to even tackle that mountain? What your approach to helping women just like make a move out of? Katy: Absolutely. So three things that I would recommend that these are gonna be practical that they can take away straight after they've listened to this podcast the first one is sensual showers. So let's say in the morning ⁓ in the evening, when we're having a shower, we all know we get in the shower, we wash ourselves, wash our hair, we get out where we go. Like it becomes very routine based. It becomes very robotic. But what I say to my clients is having an extra two or three minutes just standing in the shower. and allowing yourself to feel the water that's dropping over your skin. With my girls inside the School of Sensuality, I actually get them to have some pink bubble bath. this is their like go-to self-care, self-moment time. When they're using this, they only use the pink bubble bath when they're actually having that calm time, like that downtime. ⁓ if they've got all week and they haven't used that pink bubble bath, they know that they need to use that pink bubble bath. So you're standing in the shower, you're literally just feeling the water just caress over your skin. And this actually, if you can just stand there closing down your eyes, you're like, wow, I can actually feel the water droplets that are running down my body. Wow, I've actually got a body here. I can feel myself and I'm not just focusing thinking in my head all the time. ⁓ that's such a beautiful one. then can even incorporate this into their relationship with their partner as well. It's something that couples can do together. just having, I call them slow essential showers and making sure you have like your favorite champagne bubble bath to actually create an experience. But you have to, it's kind of like putting everything, the meetings, the calendars, the appointments that you have to go to, we have to actually create time to do this. So it's like, it doesn't have to be every day. I suggest like maybe three times a week, having an extra two minutes in the shower. Gently your body is going to start feeling that, whoa. I can actually relax, I can actually chill out. Oh, wow, I haven't had this feeling for such a long time. And the more we do that, we actually want more of it because it feels so good and we feel relaxed within that. A second one I suggest is on meal times and lunch time. So this is... When I see busy women sitting at the laptops, shoving their food down, eating really, really fast, or even sitting in their car, because I used to be a professional CrossFit athlete. So I've been there. I've been sitting in the car before training, after work, shoving my food down. And we just shoving the food down, feeling robotic, like, okay, I just need to eat, and they get on with the next task. But that actually slowly eating your food one meal a day, same again for an extra two to three minutes, is just going to chill out. You're just gonna calm down. You're just going to relax. And in that moment, it's going to feel so weird. So the first time the women do this, they're like, Katie, what do you mean? I can't eat a slow strawberry. Or I can't eat this food slow. It's because the programming and the patterning, we've just been programmed to just be so fast all the time. And so it does take, yes. And it does take a little bit of time to adjust into like, okay, how can I actually relax? Kait Tregenza: Efficiency. Katy: So it's just like, okay, eating my food and you start laughing at yourself. You're like, gosh, Katie's right. I literally cannot slow down. And then you start making a game about yourself with it because like, okay, slow can I eat my ⁓ here right now? How slow can I eat this strawberry? And you're like, ⁓ my God, it's gone. And we don't realize like, yeah, the speed that we're on. And then the third one I would recommend is my favorite one. is sensual massage. So you can do this, you can incorporate the two when you've had the shower as well with your partner. When you're coming out of the shower, same again, having some special massage lotion, some coconut oil there, which you know this is your self-care time and you're allowed to pick this up when you are slowing down. This isn't a bottle that you use when you're in the rush doing your make-up and going on. This is a moment when you actually allow yourself to feel. And so having this bottle of massage oil at the end of the day after your shower, just gently putting it onto your hands, caressing your body and just like loving yourself in a way I was like, whoa, I've got a body. Like this body takes me to work. This body helps me move through life. This body allows me to connect with my children, with my partner, with my colleagues. Like without a body, I wouldn't be going anywhere. So it's like, how can I love this body even more? and gently just giving yourself a gentle massage. Some people prefer it like a really slow, tender, just touching themselves, and then others perform more of like an earthy touch. I do prefer more of like an earthy, grounding touch. And this just brings aliveness and awakens the body back up. If the body has been switched off, like I said earlier, it's these little moments are really gonna support in reconnection with ourselves to relax. And it's like, you know, it's just a new skill that we're just gently teaching the body that it's okay to relax, that it's okay to open up. And these three exercises are things that are just really simple to implement into the day. Because when women allow themselves to give themselves time for stillness and slowness and relaxation, then they've got more desire or more want to actually come into the bedroom. Kait Tregenza: Yeah, it's the foundation of the stillness, silence, the space. and the moving at a rhythm that is far slower taking up time and taking up the room and take, and really is like taking on that constant narration too much to the extreme, like turning it around and being like, yeah, I am too much. I'm taking up too much time, too much space, too much pleasure. My body's. too much sensation. I love that. I feel like what you've just given tips ⁓ are tactile. It's about the senses. It's about taste, ⁓ touch, Katy: Yeah. Mm. Kait Tregenza: and what tends to change for people after that. Katy: Well, it's like being able, and like she said, the senses, it's being able to notice that we all have five senses. And if we're going through life and we're not actually connected to our senses, we're not actually in our body, we're not actually feeling. the more like, the more we do allow ourselves to connect to our feelings, we can actually be more present for our partner and for our children, for everybody work. We can actually be like. Whoa, okay, like I'm allowed to actually have some feelings where, know, I do have feelings of love for my partner. I do have feelings of love for my kids. And it's not always just, I guess, just rush. Being with your senses allows you to, I move away from the patterns and the programming that you've just, that we've just had that's just in the mind and allows you to ⁓ come a space of, I don't have to perform. I don't have to. ⁓ give myself, I'm not just here to do, I'm not just here to serve everybody else, I'm allowed to feel. And it's really allowing, using your senses to present into your body so you can allow yourself to feel again. Kait Tregenza: And especially if you are a person that is in such demand in every avenue of your life, your children demand something of you, your partner demands something of you, your boss, your colleagues, your clients, parents, your friends. If everyone's always taking, you so accustomed and that's been the way that your entire life has been. You don't even know. to shift around the conversation to be like, is it back? And I see that for so many women, matter what country or what socioeconomic class they're in, right? You know, ⁓ so easy say that if you're a woman with high means, you have all of these support networks. but it's not always the case. You have a lot of extra responsibility. You're operating at a different level and it's the mental load that you carry in those. You might have a cleaner and you might have a driver and you might have a meals person. You might do, you know, hundred different things to make your life easier, but it's the mental load that responsibility, that that ⁓ level of responsibility that actually keeps you up all night long. And that even if you are carving out time for intimacy with a partner, you even there? ⁓ you even ⁓ Katy: Yes. hear it often from women, you're like, the partner wants intimacy, ⁓ so they're coming into the bedroom and they're just basically watching the clock and think, is it nearly over yet? You know, can I get back to my meetings? Can I get back to the doing mode? And that is because we've all been programmed into that speed. You know, for a lot of my life, I was very in my masculine, I was very driven, I was a professional athlete. So I didn't know. anything else but like go hard, go fast. This is my determination and my And I love that about myself and I still have that. But the moment I guess doing with these central practices and a lot of what I've just shared, when I started doing this, it actually was calming my mind as well. So I was less up here. So I knew obviously going through my life, have, got my to-do list. And, but instead of like thinking like the to-do list was heavy and there's so much on it. I found a lot more enjoyment in doing the tasks that I was doing because there was less going on in my mind. My mind was like, it wasn't racing as much. wasn't in any overthinking loops. wasn't rushing through life. And I was like, ⁓ okay. I'm actually like wanting to send this email. I'm wanting to make this piece of content, not from a place of like, have to, or just rushing to like. to go from A to B to C to D and actually like finding enjoyment in it. But that only became when I started allowing myself to give it to myself. And I really had to like, what I used to do is throughout my day at the same time every day, more or less if I could, if I wasn't, let's say in meetings, I'd set an alarm on my phone that when that alarm went off, I knew that was the moment to be like, how am I feeling right now? Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Katy: Am I relaxed? Am I stressed? Is my mind racing? And I had those five minutes to be like, do you know what? I'm so stressed right now. I'm so overwhelmed, but I know that that's not helping me in my life and my, work and everyone else in my life. So how can I, I regulate and calm myself more so then I can show up even better to other people my life? And the moment when I started doing that, I actually noticed how other people in my life, then they were less rushed and less stressed and overwhelmed as well. And everyone else just, it was like a ripple on effect of everyone just kind of just chilling out. And then even I'm at the point now where I had a business meeting the other day in the ocean. I live in Thailand, I live on an island ⁓ as with one of my staff members and we were at the beach and we just happened to be in the ocean. were having a, it wasn't planned, but it just happened. And she said to us like, Katie. I really like that we've just had a business meeting in the ocean. I was like, yeah, we have, haven't we? And it was so left field, it was so different, but it was actually really allowing myself to still be, you know, in a work mode, let's say, but in a pleasurable way of doing it. Because I could have done this years ago and I'd been so stressed, you know, taking all those notes down, writing things, forgetting what I was saying. But I was in this moment, I was so relaxed, I was so calm. My mind wasn't thinking and I could just be. and then obviously, know, then we move on to do the thing, the practical tips of life. But yeah, was quite, it was quite a nice moment to see like the shift that had gone through. Kait Tregenza: I think when you engaged in a practice of experiencing tactility in your life and recode your into expression and its fullest outward expression through creativity, through a connection with your members or anything like this, then the activation of the water on your body through your shower practices, through all of these Katy: Hmm Kait Tregenza: you know, practices that I'm sure that you do that are more advanced than just a three minute shower, you know, a week. But think what's really important for women to understand is like, it's not a two minute shower to take two minutes of time to do the tick off activity that, okay, yeah, I use my, you know, bubble gum, shower soap, whatever. It's like, Katy: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: What does the sensation of water now activate in my body technology, in my memory at that core cellular level that once I get into a larger body of water, that activation is already happening because over years and years and years, we're shifting from, do work in a cubicle facing a black screen The female body is a vessel for creation and the connection to water what activates my femininity, my sensuality, my slow down, my relax. So now my body has a signal of I'm in water, I activate relaxation. In my greatest is safe to express. And these small that we compound add up. Katy: Hmm. I think like for, and it's, I, sounded like a poem and erotic poetry, what you just said there about... ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Yes, ⁓ erotic poetry. Katy: I feel like, you know, a lot of my clients ⁓ in ⁓ offices in the city and they don't have an ocean on their doorstep, for example. And they also don't have, haven't yet built this pattern. And like you said, you know, it does take time to build a new pattern in this skill. ⁓ this is why I make it tangible with, you know, high performers who go by Okay. If if I do this, I know I'm going to be able to have more relaxation in time for myself. And then it invites that, the slowing down the creativity to actually awaken within self, like you say, rather than just kind of ticking the list. But I get them to tick the list because they know they've done it. It's like, oh, okay. And then after, it's like, well, how did you feel? And as soon as a woman is able to connect to the feelings of the experience, whether that be eating sex or pleasure, in or out of the bedroom, our bodies is like, ooh, I really like that. and we start naturally gravitating to more of it. So when I was able to find more pleasure and really activate that in my own body, was like, ooh, this feels good. So I want to keep doing more ⁓ it. Kait Tregenza: Mm. it's fascinating how I wanted to ripple back to, sorry, I wanted to go back to something that you said about the ripple out. Like I loved how in your descriptions, all of metaphors that you were using were really these water-based, you know, concepts. And it's so to me that ⁓ once we start to understand the elemental of what, you know, ⁓ different things and the way in which we feel into something, ⁓ know, water so in control of our emotions, it's in control of how we feel in our bodies. It also memories, it also keeps all of these, the fluidity of feminine, right? And so I think it's an interesting concept with the shower or the bath or whatever. ⁓ Okay. If you don't have a large body of water, or even if you just have a pool, even if it's chlorinated, that body of water is going to activate within you that relaxation because of the buoyancy. You actually feel the lightness of what your body could feel in letting go of all the to-dos. okay, fine. If you need to have a to-do to do the relaxation, I don't know. I know how relaxing. ⁓ that sounds, like that's the access point, okay, fine. Like get access point. So tell us more about what a relaxed body actually does. What, ⁓ it differently? Why is relaxation so critical to a more intimate life? Katy: Hmm. So when you allow yourself to, my body felt so relaxed then as you said that. When we allow ourselves to relax, we can show up and make better decisions in work. We can actually be more present for our family, for our children, for our partner. We can actually move through life like we're actually living. Kait Tregenza: Yeah Katy: and we're turning ourselves on and we're turned on by life rather than thinking that we're robotic and we're here to perform and just tick the boxes. Let's say, you you've got a really big, a really big ⁓ happening in work, but all you've been ⁓ is been stressing with the kids in the morning, getting the kids to school, you're walking into the office, you're stressed, you're dropping your bags everywhere, kind of bit like the devil wears Prada, you're just tucking the bags over and you go in straight, zoom in, sitting at that... body hasn't had any time to process its feelings or even connect with like what's actually happening. You're so robotic. And so you're going into this deal and the person in front of you, maybe they are feeling your stress, feeling your overwhelm. ⁓ so that energy in the room is going to be so much more heightened than it would be if you're just walking gracefully and calmly and from a relaxed state. Everyone in the room, same on that ripple effect is going to be feel a lot calmer. And the deal is probably going to get a lot more juicier than what you would have, what it would have been if you would have come in in such like a, as a, what do you call it? A bull in a china shop. You know, like really that force coming in. The same with your partner. And I see this so much in the couples that I work with is they've, they've said, they've lived like that that whole day. They're coming home saying that energy is just so heightened in the body. They're so contracted and so tight. So of they don't feel any desire to their partner because there is no ounce of relaxation. There is no ounce of calmness in their body. And so then their partner starts feeling rejected. He starts feeling abandoned. He thinks that, you know, she's not loving him anymore, but really she's just been up here all day on go, go, go mode. And there's no, there's nothing left in her cup for him. So it's like in those moments when she is allowing herself to choose she wants to choose her partner because a woman has to want to choose the intimacy. She wants to have to choose ⁓ partner. Otherwise, you know, she'll just keep going in her own lane. And some people do and some relations are happy, but ⁓ and my world pleasure and intimacy comes first. So I'm all about choosing and allowing yourself to create that time to have that whether that's in or outside of the bedroom. When the woman is coming home, automatically, she's got from the office at five o'clock. She's not automatically going to want to have intimacy unless she's given herself some, a moment of, can I just have five minutes here to maybe, you know, have that shower, just get out of her head and be in a body to be present in that moment, to look at her partner and think, wow, I haven't actually looked at you in your eyes for the past month because I've been so busy. And when they start allowing that reconnection to come through eye gazing or through the eyes, through a little bit of touch, for a long hug, through holding their hands, because they've got so much love there, that then is going to be activated and they're going to naturally want each other. But you actually have to allow that space to be created rather than thinking, okay, I'm getting home and it's natural that I don't wanna have intimacy, so we just switch off. And that's so common in relationships. They come home, sweep it under the rug, two hard basket, move on Netflix, okay? And then day repeats. And the day repeats for weeks and months and years. Sometimes they come to me, haven't, yeah, they've had maybe sex three times in like the past six years. And I'm, wow, wow. And each to their own, but in my world, we do things differently. We're all about intimacy and pleasure. So really allowing yourself like, okay, if I want more intimacy with my partner, Kait Tregenza: Okay. Katy: How can I start adding these gentle parts of relaxation to myself first so can bring that into the relationship? Kait Tregenza: How many of the women that you see that struggle in intimacy, or receiving or responding to intimacy in a partnered setting have ⁓ self intimacy at all? Katy: very, very limited, very So if they're struggling with intimacy in the relationship, they generally don't have intimacy by themselves. Or if do, it's just a quick flick of the bean, get off and then carry on with life. There's no actually connection with themselves. So when I do work with couples, I'm all about self pleasure individually, even if you're a relationship as well. So it's, wouldn't always say, cause it can be really intimidating for a lot of women to start pleasuring themselves when they're in a relationship. Cause if they've never experienced this before, they don't know what self connection is with themselves. And so I gently bring it in with like those three exercises that I started with earlier in a way of, okay, I'm actually allowed to connect to my body, to my stillness, to my own pleasure, then build on from that. Because like if I was, for a lot of my clients, you know, If I was to go deep into a self-pleasure internal cervix meditation, they're like, Kelly, what is this? Like, I don't have time for that. Like, I don't know. I just want to sit here and get off. Whereas if they can see, if they can start feeling just a gentle, wow, okay, I can chill in this. And then that then opens up their body to want to have more intimacy with their partner as well. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's this... I appreciate the nuance of making like into this access, right? It's not about, well, here is I ⁓ am. This where I wanna be. I need to leap from here to there because that just sets you up for failure, right? And so I guess, do you start with mindset shifts or you start? more effectively by connecting into that body and experiencing the pleasure as a more foundational motivation to why you would want to continue this. Because would say it's really hard to mentally imagine your life would be more pleasurable. It feels so easier to be like, ⁓ experienced a afternoon. Why don't I do that more? And that ⁓ motivation seems more something that you would be more consistently able to show up for, right? Because it's a felt experience as something that as opposed to something you're projecting it out or, or is it a combination of both? how, how, what's the most effective way to start making these changes for women who haven't made any time? Katy: Yeah. that's like, it's choosing. Do you want to have some time for yourself? Do you want to be connecting more with your partner? And generally like if they are, their want is like, okay, Katie, I do want this, but I just don't know how to get there. That's like the first step is just ⁓ it. I want this. When you're, and then you're actually saying that to yourself, to your body is like, okay, we're on this path. because a lot of women just don't. And they're like, that's okay, they can live their life. But in my world, this is exactly what I'm here for. So, and I meet everyone, you know, where they're at. I myself am a very pleasured sensual being, but a lot of my clients, like I said, they haven't had, you know, they've probably had sex three times in the past couple of years. And so it's like using those exercises that I said earlier, and also allowing emotional intimacy, but this is the part that gets scary. Because if a woman has never had any time for herself, if she has just given herself to work, to the kids, to her partner, doesn't know ⁓ she is anymore. When the age she reaches 40, and ⁓ for women, for anyone, can be so scary. Kait Tregenza: Right. Katy: they don't know who they are. They're like, ⁓ my God, I'm actually realizing that I've just given myself to my three kids, to my work. I'm sitting here thinking, can't be in stillness and I can't be in silence and I can't be in pleasure because it feels too scary, because it feels uncomfortable because it's the unknown. And that is the part where, you know, I don't tell people to sit there in silence because we're not going to get anywhere with that. They're just going to start going around in their thoughts. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Right. Katy: That's why it really works in my world where they have that to do list. So like, okay, I gave myself, might just be okay, the exercises, or it might be okay, give yourself 15, 30 minutes of something that you would do for enjoyment. For example, one of my clients likes to into Pilates and the other one likes doing paintings and drawings. And it's just like, okay, have you done for yourself this week? No. Why? just don't have time for that. or didn't want to sit there by myself and you know they wanted to be active. So it's about meeting where they're at and also allowing them to ⁓ doing things that they enjoy and just keep doing more of it. So go into a Pilates class, it's taking your time out of your busy day, you're actually giving to your body, your sensations are warming up, then you're coming home, having your shower, having a bit of you know, slow touch to yourself, that's enough. They don't need to be going into a full, full body orgasm with a cervix meditation and that, because it's way too much for them. Of course, if they're listening, they want that, come on over, I am here for it. But like you said, it's, you're going from like zero to a hundred in your body or just like, what is this? And you don't think it's possible. But the more that you start going along, think I drop in there one time, I so disconnected from my body. I was so switched off. I didn't know what pleasure was, you know. I really I could never feel anything when I was pleasuring myself. And now I'm at the point where I can actually like ejaculate with no And the moment I found that in my own body, I'm like, wow, this is a skill. This is not something that I've like, you know, it just happened overnight. It's a process that I've taken my body on through pleasure, through that connection. And that's allowed me to come to that. So ladies listening out there, it's so possible and so full body orgasms, but it's like, it's the path that we get to. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Katy: So I'd say for a woman at the moment, like practicality, she's in her busy life. She knows she wants more pleasure. How can you add in, in your schedule, and you literally have to mark it in your schedule, 30 minutes of self care and self pleasure time. In that 30 minutes, are you gonna have that warm bath that you've been meaning to have for the past month? Are you gonna get some strawberries and chocolate? Are you gonna get your favorite drink and have a sip while you listen to your favorite music? Doing something that activates, like I said, that relaxation. Then from there, naturally, are sensual beings. If you're in the bath feeling relaxed, massaging yourself, you might think, Kate is right. I actually am starting to feel a bit turned on. And then when you bring that energy into your own self pleasure practice, or can take it to your partner and be like, babe, I listened to this podcast and show me ⁓ long bath and worked. And feel really turned on now. Like, should we go? And if they allow themselves to do that, then bit by bit, they'll start noticing what works for them. Some clients like a slow bath, some like just sitting, watching the birds, some want to listen to music. You find what works for you and then just do more of it because you know how your body is like, wow, I feel juicy. I feel turned on. It's like Katie, what's happened here? You know? Kait Tregenza: Yeah. think that point of like when you do connect into pleasure, not it is that were about choices, right? Like you have to choose it, you have to choose it. ⁓ Well, if you an environment where pleasure is available you're there, there's nothing to do. There's nothing else to take care of. Katy: Mmm. Kait Tregenza: but you in that moment still choose to shut it down. Not to bring that up to create shame or, you know, know, wrongness in that. But I think there's so many women who do, ⁓ know, get to ⁓ and Gen X women who were raised by a very conservative boomer or, you know, older parents who... ⁓ You know, if you were caught masturbating as a child, like mother didn't take you aside and was like, it's fantastic that you have found a pleasure center. ⁓ Let three year old, four year old, whatever you are, you know, gently explain that unpack for you in a safe and, you know, held way. No, you were punished. were humiliated. You know, this was not something that you learned. ⁓ that your body holds that memory of, don't touch yourself. If you grew up in a conservative family or a religious one, or if you have a political that, you know, is against kinds of things. And so I think the first that I guess to contextualize this conversation like, there's many reasons why you would shut down your pleasure. Like this is not about you and I sitting here women who aren't in pleasure or who aren't activating in that. But guess in the context of how entangled in ⁓ all these other externalities, how a who to you who says like, okay, I can do the shower, but just touching myself, even, you know, for assignment, a to-do, which I love to tick off that to-do. I just can't do it. I can't, like I feel disgusting. I feel shameful. I feel wrong. more importantly, it doesn't feel good. And I don't want to do it. Like, I don't think that there's, I don't think that anyone who gets to the end goal of, you know, total and liberation hasn't been through this journey at some level or at some degree. Yeah, could you maybe speak to those kinds of points? Because I think very women still have times where they're like, I got to ⁓ push through Like, or I've got it, like, it's not flowing, right? Katy: Yeah, I want to a little bit earlier, but I want to say I growing up and prior six years ago, I was most vanilla, prude, self-conscious woman, girl that was. it's so my school friends and people I knew back in my life, they knew how much I used to blush about talking about sex or intimacy or anything like that. And now they see, I'm speaking on stages around the world about sex. They're like, Katie, what happened? Because it's polar. It's so polar opposite. And from my own personal journey, I literally got thrown into the deep end. I was thrown into the deep end with my ex-husband who was in a very liberated open space at the time. And I was like, whoa, is this it? And I used to judge the women who were so... Kait Tregenza: You? Katy: liberated and who was so open because I'm like, I guess I didn't have that in myself. They would just confidently wear these lingerie at parties. And I'm like, how can they just stand there showing their body in these lingerie? I was like, how, like, how is this a thing? Because I was so like, switched off from myself and self-conscious within myself. And being around these liberated, confident women, it was so intimidating at the start. But I was like, As you went on and we know this, whoever you surround yourself by, you become. And so the more I was in that energy, I gently over time started awakening myself up. remember this one time. I so self-conscious about my Yoni and my at the time was really supportive to help me build a ⁓ with my body. And then after some time, I remember he came home and I'm sitting there in front of the mirror, like, looking at her thinking, look how pretty she is today, babe. But before that, I was so self-conscious and I only wanted to have sex with the lights off. I used to keep my underwear on and only just like move them to the side for an entrance in there because I never wanted to be seen or to be, to anyone to be looked at her because I was so like ashamed from an ex has said to me earlier in my life. And that stuck with me. And so it's like, I'm gonna put something practical on this tip, on this now for women to actually what they can actually do is, well, it doesn't have to be in front of the mirror. What I suggest is like putting some central playlist on. I have a beautiful playlist, so I'll send that over to you. Putting a central playlist on and in the central playlist, keeping your clothes on and just gently bring in some touch to your tummy, to the inner thighs. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Now we'll link it in the show notes. Katy: And as you're lying there, closing your eyes, breathing, bringing this touch to your tummy, to your hips. Like, I was like, wow, this is my body. Like I'm allowed to feel, I have a tummy, like, whoa, okay, I have legs, I have a bum. just gently then start keeping your underwear on, caressing yourself and just gliding ⁓ you know, when the panties sit. And just gently finding some touch before we need to go in all the way in there and finding the G-spot and everything else we've got. Just gently caressing yourself. And then that's enough for today. That's it, you know, we don't need to do anymore. It's like warming a new baby up to a new food. You just go step by step. The second time we come into this moment, it's like, okay, maybe Katie, I'm gonna try this like without my underwear on now. So just touching the inner thighs, closing down your eyes, listening to the music, breathing. in that moment, you're going to have stories that are coming into your mind, but this is the moment to choose. Do I want to keep believing this story? And is my mind actually helping me do I want to feel differently? And do I want to feel the discomfort, but allow myself to know that I'm allowed that pleasure. And so when that mind starts coming in, you, over isn't, you know, it takes time to build this new muscle, but you're like, okay. This does feel good when I put my hand on myself and like, I'm allowed to touch myself like that. And then when we allow ourselves to start walking up with that. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Katy: And let's say the third time we're doing this now, okay, that's when we're actually bringing some touch to the vulva. That's was like, ⁓ okay, this is the entrance of my vagina. It's like, I didn't even know that was there. Like, ⁓ what's this part up here? allowing that connection to come with the body step by step. So we've gone from feeling really insecure or self-conscious, just touching ourselves with clothes on to now, you know, if you do it over a couple... bit by bit, whenever you have the time, let's say the third time you're gonna have some self connection, it's like, okay, this is my body. And you go through this process with you choosing to give yourself some time for self connection, self pleasure, you're choosing to like, okay, I remember what Katie said, when those stories coming into my mind, who is me this story? ⁓ yeah, it was that teacher from school or it's my mum that said that, I was like. Do I want to keep believing their stories or am I allowed to have my own story now? And then we're allowed to create whatever story we want today, tomorrow, and moving forward. Kait Tregenza: I think it's a really powerful I think, I mean, the first question that I know that people would ask hearing that is that first time, second time, third time, like day one, day two, day three, or can, you know, this be effective if it's months apart or apart? Like, is there a cadence to opening in this way? Katy: Well, I say it's like anything, you know, if you're going to learn to run a marathon or if you're going to a new sport, the more trainings you do in your sport, the more runs you go for, the faster you get in your marathon. The more times you do go to yoga to learn how to do a back bend, you're going to get better at it. So if you went to a yoga class once a month, it'd probably take you longer to get a back bend than it would if you went to a yoga class three times a week. So it's like anything, the more time and energy that you're choosing to put into it, then you'll get out of the other side. if you're really intimidated at the start, maybe I'd say intentionally just once a week, just once a week, having a moment of half an hour of self-connection to yourself and sure you're putting it in your calendar, schedule it pink if you need to. I'm always about bringing the colors and the juiciness into it. And you know, it's like, okay, I gave myself some time. you're probably not going to feel any different after that first time of doing it. Like going to your first yoga class, you're not going to be able to do a back bend in one yoga class. The more you do it, you're building a skill in your body, in your mind to create a new habit and a new pattern. Like in my life now, if I go weeks without actually touching my own self and touching my own body, my body's like, Katie, hey, you've forgotten about me. Like, where are you? Because it's such a... It's such a habit and it's pattern, I guess, that time that I give to myself. But way before that, God, I would go years without touching myself because I didn't know what I was doing. But I've gradually built that skill. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Yeah. I this, there's a of you that needs to be body led into that and be like, okay, when the sensation arises, like follow with it. But when you're shut down with sensations not arising, there is a requirement for you to kickstart that, you know, that engine there. Yeah. Katy: Yes. It's like, you know, going to the gym. Sometimes we don't want to go to the gym, but when we're in the gym after five minutes, we start feeling better. You know, you go to work, sometimes you don't want to go to work, but you know, we go. And that's why I'm all really big about setting time in schedule because high achieving women are always looking at their calendar. And if it's there in front of their ⁓ more so than they're going to post it note in the fridge, you can't miss it. Kait Tregenza: feel really good. Yeah. Katy: And if you're not, if you set that, so with my clients in my sessions, at the end of the session, we schedule in together in their calendar. And then I know when they've got their self care time, the next 24 hours later, I'll just check in, have you had that time? And if they haven't, then it's like, okay, well, there's probably a part that they're avoiding because they know they have the time for it. They've just chosen not to. And that's like the discomfort comes like choose, oh, I just didn't want to go to the gym today. But instead. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Katy: We need to keep doing those paths, keep recreating those new habits and creating those new pathways to be building this new skill of pleasure. Kait Tregenza: What changed for you personally the first time that you saw your body, your pussy, your vulva, your folds? Like, how that shift your of Katy: beautiful question. So this wasn't just an overnight process. This was a journey that I was on for quite some time. Like I said, I got thrown into the deep end. I was actually in the adult industry. I married somebody in the adult industry. And so I was really thrown into the deep end at the same time exploring tantra. So I'd never done anything like this before. was in a I was in a tantric workshop, you people were touching me and I like, ⁓ my God, what is this? I don't wanna be there. And it was very like intimidating, but being in that discomfort, surrounded by people who are confident, who were liberated, who felt comfortable, allowed me to feel the same as well. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Katy: And so the more I've gone on over time, I've actually just finished a retreat. And in the retreat, I was saying, like, you know, five years ago, I was the one who would be self-conscious and sitting there and just showing what's possible into the way that you can move forward. I think one of the biggest things that I loved on my journey for liberation is I was choosing stand or to sit in front of the mirror and to look at my body. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Katy: And with myself, like, you know, I was a professional athlete, so I've often taken a lot of care in my body, my nutrition, you know, hydration, my training, my sleep. So I've always had that. That's always been quite natural for me of how I take care of myself. But that was one level, coming to be nude, sitting in front of the mirror, actually just looking at myself thinking, whoa. Like, this is like my body, like no one else has got this body, like this is just me. And it was through actually just looking at myself and loving myself in the mirror, like I was talking to my best friend, but talking to myself in the mirror really helped me build that confidence and my personal journey of feeling like, whoa, okay, I can be here naked, like I feel so sexy. Kait Tregenza: it's interesting because I have a similar, I have a similar background, you know, I wasn't ever a professional, but I was very close to being a professional. And then ⁓ when didn't happen for me, I made a different choice elsewhere, but it is that it's like, you really understand functionality of your body at that level. You understand exactly how you can jump or how this, that, or the other, know, whatever your personal. sport or for your body to do. You understand it's specific capabilities, but limitations. And then you focus very much within room. And the I say that, and you also mentioned the like you understand the care and the maintenance of the body system and what changes ⁓ when you something in and And I've never been ⁓ a drinker because I was an athlete and training at such a high capacity so many years. And the reason is when you are so finely attuned to the differences ⁓ the output quality and capacity of a body, you that one glass of alcohol changes your output capacity. And ⁓ you really, really aware of these operations or the functionality of the capabilities. And in many ways you a skillset. And I realized that I had a skillset in the acute awareness of what my body was, is, and could do and, and, and how the relationship my mind and my body and my health in my body, changed, you know, its capabilities. And when I came the sensuality of the tantra world and that's obviously it's a, it's a different. It's a different mindset and it's a different way of approaching it. But actually in many ways I found a great overlap because the tantric understanding of the functionality of the body is extremely acute as well. It understands the finessing of we do this, then this changes. And so of a sudden I realized, well, I actually have ⁓ all of skill sets of how my ⁓ athleticism and how my training and how my recovery and how like I'm treating my body like inputs and outputs. You know, I understand that. And in Tantra, understood people understood that in a very similar acuteness just had a different lens and just had a different perspective. And I think why for me, my fascination with the body technology and what you can do with your body ⁓ limited by what you have met in your body. And the more that you meet yourself in your body, the more you realize this of flesh is not bones and organs. There is an organizing principle that your entire is created by the connection that you have. to the capabilities that your body can emit for you. Katy: beautiful and I really like the similarities that you showed there between being an athlete and tantra. so many women, so I guess this is the life that I live in the space of, you know, self-connection and time chip, but a lot of women, high achieving have never maybe had that experience of that connection with themselves. ⁓ And it takes away, ⁓ I like the mind doesn't open into what's possible. And then being able guess, for those bring it back into a way of like, whoa, I actually do have a body. And then when we start noticing these things and obviously it becomes like a refresher in the body. It's like, whoa, I can have this as well. I feel like for so many women, it seemed like we've been shaped to act like a man. living in, you know, the cycle, when really when connect to our female body and connect to our hormones, our ⁓ cyclical living, have so much more out of life. And there is much, I mean, I think this will be a different subject here. This ⁓ is just going open another door, but maybe could there be a part two when we can actually really connect with our cycle and how live as women. It really opens so many doors into how we show up in the workplace, how we communicate with our partner, and how we're actually working with ourselves and not against ourselves. Kait Tregenza: And it also helps you come back into intimacy. It's like, if you were in the wrong week to be, you know, starting an intimacy reset with your partner, you know, there are some external factors that you might need to zoom out and like give yourself a little bit of grace. It's like, okay. But at ovulation, I still don't feel desire, I still don't feel arousal. I still don't feel ⁓ any on at all. that's a different level investigation than I just finished bleeding and I'm ⁓ really ⁓ into it or I'm, you know, I'm about to start and I don't feel, ⁓ that's normal. I there are lots of women who actually use intimacy as pain management and, know, when start to unpack the marvel of your body and you, and you know, your entire, you know, sort of feminine sensuality, you can really start to understand how pleasure and pain work together in tandem. But well, that's a rabbit hole. But the whole point is, I guess the entire situation there is like how, if you are a high performing woman and you are so used to using your mind and ⁓ your investigation or analytical skills or anything, then you can apply them here. You can still apply them here. If you want get deeper into intimacy, there's an investigation and there's an entire, you philosophy around sensuality can actually shift in your If you need this to be a mental exercise for you first, ⁓ and that's where get turned on, like the books have written for thousands of years. It's available. You can come in at any point that you want. guess is the real point. Katy: love how you said that, like the BDSM, and a lot, mean, like you said, that's another, it's another rabbit hole, but a lot of, and I have done this for myself as well, like I will intentionally go into a BDSM consensual experience so I can relax, so I can surrender, so I can just, you be not in control. Whereas I a lot of women as well, because they're still in that dominance, they like that control, when they go into the bedroom, they take that with them. However, because you don't want to outbalance the polarity in the relationship, the man might feel a little bit smaller. And that's how like I can affect it can affect the libido and the connection in the relationship because she's wanting to be, I guess, the dom, the man in the relationship. It can be with boundaries and communication. but it's also so good for a woman to be like, tied up, please take me now, you know, and allow that space of, less control, more time for her to feel in the bedroom. Kait Tregenza: One of the most powerful things that I have ever done is take a course in power and what power is from a dominatrix. Katy: Mmm. Kait Tregenza: And understanding the submissive power and how you make that a truly powerful experience for everyone in the room and how, you know, the way that she frames it is more around a dominant role or a dom role is more around having your focus out and the submissive is having your focus in. And in many women, especially those in high performing areas. The role of the submissive is not to lay there and have what else wants done to you, done to you. It is actually about learning how to receive the attention completely ⁓ utterly focused on you. And that is scariest thing in the world for women who have been doing everything for everyone else. making sure that everybody else is looking at them. this shift in submission is not about having things done to you. in that zero control capacity, but the shift could be, if I got so good at receiving from somebody else in this moment? If are struggling to receive help in the kitchen, help with the kids, help at work, and you are just in that dominant stance all the time, you're not giving anybody ⁓ space contribute. And of the biggest shifts in my approach to what it take to actually be in receivership learning how to be an amazing, amazing sub. Katy: I love it. love it. And then ⁓ said that being able to receive, but that space of being in submission and of receiving and that stillness is scary for a lot of women who haven't Kait Tregenza: Yeah, because it ships. Katy: the space to ever like, whoa, I actually can say what I want and whoa, I'm actually allowed to just receive and my pleasure isn't just for him. that's where it can be scary for a lot of women. Kait Tregenza: And really like for what you want in this deeply internal way where you're bringing all the intention and attention into you and your fantasies, your desires, your wants, your needs, your ideas. And that have to be a sexual fantasy. It could be like, it would make me so incredibly to if you did the washing up. every second night. The way that I would feel our relationship could expand could find more point of intimacy with me watching you doing the washing up. Maybe you take off your shirt, maybe you get all wet on your hands ⁓ you ask it from that way instead of can you just do the washing up? Katy: Mm. Kait Tregenza: It's who wants to help someone who's nagging and you don't want to be that person, right? And that's the thing. Katy: times percent. So much, yeah. And it is, it's like you're taking that when women speak to their husbands, their men like this, you're taking that, you know, the manager role. to home. And that's where there's a polarity out balance because you don't want to be a manager in your home. You want to be in your feminine essence. You want to be your body. You want to be relaxed. You want to be in a relationship. You're not like micromanaging him or the house or stuff because that also affects the to get to those levels of deeper orgasms and deeper pleasure because you're micromanaging. Kait Tregenza: And you're taking the annoyance and the and the hate and the resentment that on yourself as well. And so now you have to unpack that, get that out of your body before you're even available for intimacy. It's like, it's so much extra work to just find a connection point. And so that was a really life-changing situation for me of like, how could I ask for what I want in this submissive because the entire world is constructed so that we stay in our dominance. But what would it be if I truly asked, if I begged, if I myself to somebody else's mercy to do the washing up? And I think it's just a really fun game to play with outside the bedroom ⁓ that help you find a little bit of extra, I don't confidence to play that role in the intimate bedroom play. Katy: Yeah, it's more because I know as you're saying that a lot of women say what they don't want. But in, yeah, okay, that's great. And we all know, it's all easier to say what we don't want. And this is actually was one of a huge lesson for me. Instead of actually saying what we don't want, voice what we do. Like, okay, I would love if you did the washing up. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Katy: two nights at work, every other night, I would love to be invited out for dinner, or I would love to receive a text message that's got the location and the time for our dinner date this week. So that's inviting him to step up into his masculine energy ⁓ actually, you know, allow yourself to receive. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Yeah. And I think if in case anyone really doesn't understand the dom sub thing, dominance about telling someone what to do. And submissive is really around that invitation and that receiving and that going inward and being like, you know, whether it's with words or with actions or with whatever. so I think part of the issue for so many women is how do you take off that hat at work. And my question is, why don't you just put on a sub hat at work as well and see how your work shifts? happens if you started telling your boss about your deepest fantasies ⁓ how to transform the company in a way that invited him into that? What you don't go head to head with Cheryl from accounting anymore and you invite her into a fantasy that you two have an amazing friendship. sometimes I think we get so caught up on these male negotiation and career accelerating, you know, bro speak ways of doing things. You, I have used this sub, kind of negotiation tactic on a child. And it's very effective. This is not just about adult to adult or male to female or lover to lover kind of dynamics. It's like, what happens if we totally got into the sensuality of receiving? you know, what if you received the water in your shower? Like what what if you took it to like all of these different levels? It would be really exciting. Katy: Mm-hmm. And I think like, yeah, I 100 % know and feel what you're saying. I guess I have my, a lot of my clients in mind who are so like, you can't just tell your boss that you want to have this central conversation, you know, cause it's so left field, but it doesn't, it doesn't. ⁓ I think the way to naturally get that. Kait Tregenza: But it wouldn't be sensual. You wouldn't say it sensually to your boss. Katy: is by starting and implementing in yourself what we've covered already in this podcast, because you will start noticing naturally when you start doing those things, yes, you're so much relaxed in yourself. So the conversations with your boss are going to be so much lighter or everyone else. And then naturally like that's part of the process. But yeah, I think like going from here to here is like, you know, there's a few pieces. there's a few pieces to go through before we get. Kait Tregenza: Maybe six. that's very, that's a good reminder. Just go back to what we said. Baby steps, titrate people, titrate. ⁓ Katy: Little by little. Kait Tregenza: Katie, what would you want single woman that may never have an opportunity to work with you directly, ⁓ you know, is listening to you in this moment, who's feeling your words, who's feeling like, there's a call for more. I come and work with you or I, I'm not ready for that. Or, or I want to know a little bit more, like just open the door, just a little bit extra for me. What is the access beyond this conversation that you think you want people to take away. Katy: As someone who is so deeply connected to their pleasure and their body, would just love to share, we have one life. Why not allow yourself to experience exactly what you want to experience? That might be for six weeks. That be for six months. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: You Katy: but allow yourself to get curious and explore whatever life is bringing to you, whatever you're getting, you know, curious about and go and get curious. You're going to be a complete newbie. You're going to feel so uncomfortable. Day one. But by day six, day 13, month three, you are going to be so proud of yourself that you allowed yourself to say yes to more pleasure, to say yes to connection, to say yes to more intimacy, because you said you made that choice and you're like, okay, I'm gonna go for it. And so how can you allow yourself to step into that discomfort and choose own pleasure? Because you're gonna maybe sitting in an old people's home in a wheelchair soon and you've never touched yourself. Where's the where's the fun gone in that? Kait Tregenza: And I think leave us with one inspiration of your greatest sense of what this work has gifted to you. What are you now, years ago where you couldn't access, where you were sitting exactly where everyone you're talking to is right now. What does your younger self wish to know about you right now? Katy: Ugh. I was such a firecracker. was like, was on speed constantly. I was constantly in my head. I was thinking, like I would send a text message and if he hadn't replied within three minutes, I'm thinking, ⁓ my God, I need to message him again. Or if he hadn't replied within five minutes, I'm like, ⁓ my God, is he gonna dump me now? Like even in a relationship, just questioning myself so much and it became so exhausting. I have none of that in my life now. I'm not in my head, I'm not questioning myself, I'm not worrying, I'm just living truly authentically to myself and supporting everyone else that's in my field to be able to do the same through. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Katy: pleasure and through sensuality and through connection with themselves. Because if you're spending, let's say you're spending three hours thinking up here, like my younger self used to day spent three days thinking about the text message that he didn't reply to me. I've just wasted three days of my life. And that's why I said like, we have one life. I have missed out. was so vanilla, so prude for the majority of my life. I missed out on so much connection with myself. And now this is something I bring into my life. it just makes me feel good. Pleasure to me is a way of living. ⁓ is a way of showing up. It's not just something that just happens in the bedroom. It's we are as women. And you don't have to be this big sexual outgoing person. You can be in work wearing your cute lingerie underneath and that makes you feel alive and that makes you feel sexy. And maybe that's all you need, but how can you give yourself that little bit of love? Kait Tregenza: She's like carrying around a secret. Katy: Yeah, life is full of that. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Yeah, amazing. So tell us a little bit about your retreat and how work with women and couples. ⁓ Katy: Yeah, so I work in person in Thailand and also Australia and the UK at different times of the year. I work with women and I work with couples privately or in group settings. And I also work in private coaching spaces online as well. For the girls, have, say girls because it is, I work with women as well, but I have my YouTube channel, The School of Sensuality for girls. So it's like, you know, 18, 25 year old girl. who are getting curious about their body. But the reality is there is a lot of older women on there as well learning the same things as I'm teaching my girls. So it kind of, you know, it matches up. But that's why, yeah, School of Sensuality is my YouTube channel and I run also intimacy resets for couples. So let's say you've got the love, you've got the connection, but the intimacy is just taking a back seat. I help couples reignite that spark in the relationship. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. So it's not a toxic relationship that you're trying to like, you know, manage. It's a relationship that is just disconnected. It's unplugged. Katy: Yeah, yeah, unplugged is a great way to say it. Yeah, so we just gently, you know, warm the oven back up. Kait Tregenza: how can people find you? Katy: So I am your couple's intimacy for my couples or the school of sensuality on YouTube for women. And I will send my links over. So I imagine we'll put them all in the show notes below. And then on Instagram, am Katie Aura as well. Kait Tregenza: Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today, Katie. biggest takeaway for me, I think in breaking this conversation down is if know all of this stuff, even if you've, you're not a beginner, even if you're entering into this at like an intermediate or advanced level, we all live very busy lives. Even if we're very hard to live a very slow paced, very slow living kind of life full of pleasure and everything. It gets, we get caught up in the doing. And for me, I think the takeaways are, it is so simple to get back into deep relationship with yourself. And even if you're partnered, should never stop dating yourself and you should never stop dating your partner. ⁓ I don't think very many women have ever dated themselves. And if, if they have, it's for like short spurts to maybe change your life a little bit. But it's like, for me, my takeaway is what if I committed to a long-term lifelong relationship with myself I loved myself I those intimacy research very regularly into, and in a big grandiose way, but like the ways that you've said is so easy to access. There's no excuse. no excuse. it's just, and it all comes down to exactly what you said, which is, will you choose yourself? Katy: Yeah. And some women will after they've listened to this podcast, they absolutely will. And some women will go and set those, you know, dates, self-pleasure times in their calendar. Some women will probably feel a little bit intimidated, but curious. And some women, you know, it might take them a couple of weeks or a couple of months for this conversation to land because the disconnection and the roboticness in them is so strong. And that's okay. Just like these information and these teachings are here to gradually come to it. But if I can suggest anything, go and set some self care time into your calendar right now. Kait Tregenza: Ora, thank you so much for coming on the pod. It was a pleasure. Katy: Thank you. Thank you.