Latest / CRYPTO 101 / Ep. 749 Coinbase’s Head of AI Explains the Future of Agentic Finance

Transcript

Ep. 749 Coinbase’s Head of AI Explains the Future of Agentic Finance · CRYPTO 101

0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody welcome back.
0:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to another episode of the crypto 101 podcast.
0:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you're having just as fantastic of a week that I am Brendan.
0:22
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you doing?
0:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Extra fantastic as well.
0:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how can you not be?
0:28
[SPEAKER_00]: How can you not be when you're covered in the blood of bears with the largest short squeeze by several different measures, the largest short squeeze in the history of crypto from a national volume perspective?
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw the first hour, I mean, all of this was driven off the back of the news of the Secretary Treasury saying he's going to essentially print more money.
0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, he cloaked it in a fancy way by saying he's going to issue a lot more debt on the front end of the curve with two year bills.
0:59
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to buy back a bunch of these off the run, you know, 20 year and 30 year bonds adding more liquidity to the whole, uh, landscape there and then just the other day saying, well, we've also got the Treasury General account.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We could run that down and buy back bonds and so they're,
1:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Essentially monetizing the debt, the currency takes the hit off the back of that, you know, the markets are to sniff out the seriousness of their plan.
1:26
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a billion dollars of short liquidations over just the one hour following that announcement, over the following 24, sorry, over the following 48 hours, I think it totaled somewhere around $4 billion.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And so,
1:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a really, really, really big, you know, short squeeze.
1:46
[SPEAKER_00]: We were happy to see it starting to get those texts from friends and, oh my gosh, we thought you were, we thought crypto was dead.
1:54
[SPEAKER_00]: We thought you're going to have to start a new podcast.
1:56
[SPEAKER_00]: We thought you were going to have to, you know, move to to Kentucky or something, no shade of Kentucky, but cheaper cost of living than San Diego.
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But sure enough, the crypto bowls have
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: you know have have come back with a little bit of vengeance and so we're really excited I know everybody who's watching is really excited but we have an incredible guest who I'm sure is sharing in the the celebrations here in in the crypto markets the head of AI product at Coinbase Lincoln Mer joining us so Lincoln welcome to the show how are you doing
2:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Doing well.
2:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having me.
2:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, pretty stoked about everything this happened over the last couple of days.
2:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
2:37
[SPEAKER_00]: No, there's been a ton of fun stuff, and AI is at the epicenter of a lot of this excitement.
2:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, everybody is now using AI in their workflows, whether it's to analyze the crypto markets, whether it's to get news.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know folks who are using AI, MCPs to execute trades.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and they're able to to manage their portfolios.
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: They're, I mean, I'm seeing people manage their wallets through different, uh, platforms.
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's so much to unpack, um, this is going to be a really exciting episode.
3:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you know, we, you know, we've got a lot of questions to cover, um, but first, I just want, you know, again, this is a show about people, um, and we always platform.
3:23
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, just the smartest best builders in the space, and that's why you're here.
3:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to know a little bit about who you are before we dive into what you're building and all that kind of stuff.
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So just tell us a little high level on how you ended up at Coinbase as the head of AI product, a little bit about your background, and then we'll dive into it.
3:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally.
3:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So I first got into crypto years ago.
3:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I was 11 or 12, and I was looking for a way to buy out for you games on the internet.
3:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I need to get a VPN.
3:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So we wouldn't keep getting notices from the internet service providers that were breaking other terms and whatnot.
3:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So I traded a target gift card for Bitcoin on local Bitcoins, had it on my iPhone 4S wallet, and that was kind of my first experience that was really interacting with money.
4:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Flashboard a couple years later, I checked that wallet and I thought I spent $20, but there's somehow $20 in there.
4:13
[SPEAKER_02]: No idea how that happened, but sort of got reinterested, sort of poking around right around the 2017 bull market starting, and never really looked back.
4:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Did a bunch of research wrote publications, articles, whatever during college, remade of university's blockchain club, and did some research with the Ethereum Foundation on consensus mechanisms to wrap things up there.
4:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Right-out college started at Coinbase, working on our wallets and all of the different APIs and different wallets related to developer-facing products, and built out agent kit, which was our first early attempt at building out a way to give AI agents access to crypto wallets.
4:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Posted that on my Twitter account and went viral.
4:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a team to build around this whole agetic narrative and whatnot.
4:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That turned into X402, which turned into Coinbase advisor, which turned into all the other day.
4:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, now I'm down here.
5:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So is it fair to say that you're the inventor of X402?
5:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say co-creator.
5:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I would reserve the inventor title for the engineers who actually wrote the spec and did all the heavy lifting to make it such a compelling standard.
5:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I do a lot around the product side of it.
5:18
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the things around it?
5:19
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the features and tools and capabilities that you need to actually build on top of X402?
5:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, I love it.
5:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a great place to start
5:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, avenues for agents, chatGPT or Claude or many of the others that are going to be coming out grockbott is something I've been tinkering around with now, which is super cool.
5:44
[SPEAKER_00]: A way to give them the ability to spend money on the internet.
5:49
[SPEAKER_00]: without giving them your credit card, without having to trust them with some, you know, large amount of money, you could just say, hey, you know, use this x402 protocol, and you could, you know, give them $20 of USDC and say, that's your allotment for the week.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: use it wisely.
6:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you could give it an allowance and very interestingly enough as well.
6:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to give them any Ethereum for gas fees.
6:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of all baked in there.
6:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So so walk us through.
6:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the vision of X402, how it started and again, color it with the idea of people who are listening, they're not technologists in a sense that are heavy coders generally.
6:31
[SPEAKER_00]: There are people that are users, their consumers, their retail investors,
6:36
[SPEAKER_00]: speak to them, particularly about the power of X402 and what it paints a vision of the future for.
6:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally.
6:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we were building out agent kit and some of these early sort of tools to give agents access to wallets, it was extremely experimental and we were most, most they just poking around.
6:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And what we needed to find out is that we can tell our clients and our chatshevTs to go do on-chain or into things.
6:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can go make a swap, you can go deploy a smart contract, making NFT, all of this cool stuff, but kind of inside the coinbase and the crypto bubble.
7:08
[SPEAKER_02]: and really what we wanted to do is take the idea of an agent having to wall it and actually make it be able to go off and pay for things.
7:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think one of the clearest pain points that we're trying to solve is how today, if you want to interact with all of these different services that exist on the internet, it's a really frictionful process.
7:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So for example, if you want to set up your agent to have the ability to generate images or videos or do a web search,
7:30
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to go find a specific provider that'll do that service.
7:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to sign up for an account.
7:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to fund that account with a debit card, and then you have to get some sort of API key, or basically like a unique identifier that you give to your agent to authenticate it on the service.
7:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a huge thing.
7:45
[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be analogous to if you went to a grocery store and before you were able to check out, they make you buy a gift card to that grocery store and sign up for a grocery store account.
7:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It just doesn't make sense.
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So the whole idea of X402 is to let an agent go, hey, that's something cool on the internet that I want to pay for.
8:00
[SPEAKER_02]: How can I do that?
8:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that web service wants, oh, here's all the information that you need.
8:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I charge 10 cents of USDC on base, and the age you can just send that money.
8:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's easy as that.
8:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You can access whatever you want on the internet, and really help facilitate this new agetic economy in this era of machine-to-machine payments that are increasingly inevitable.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so awesome.
8:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what are kind of some of the example use cases of like what is an agent spending money on?
8:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it?
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And my wife and I talk about this all the time because we're, you know, we're really passionate about like, you know, where the future's going robots in the house or
8:35
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, oh, like, maybe one day in AI agent, like, it knows my preferences, it knows where I shop.
8:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I just give it $100 and say, you know, wait for this dress to come on sale and be able to automatically execute that, or is it really more just like, you know, Mike, you know, hey, I want to subscribe to a feed of data for my stock portfolio, micro transactions, you know, every, you know, every day pay it, pay this data feed, you know, five cents.
9:03
[SPEAKER_00]: like, where are on the spectrum or are we not thinking even big enough, maybe?
9:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it covers really all of the above is kind of the basic answer.
9:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Where we've actually started to see real traction, especially with stablecoins and crypto, is on this micro-transactions use case.
9:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's because it's particularly uniquely enabled by stablecoin and crypto rails.
9:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And since that traditional card and payment processing networks have minimum transaction size and transaction views that prohibitive to this vision of
9:32
[SPEAKER_02]: and this general developer-oriented audience that's currently playing with agents are more prone to these individual services that they might be interacting with.
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So some concrete examples, I've just given my cloud agent a wallet and everyone's well, I'll ask you to do something and then after it finishes it's whole five minute thinking process, I'll realize that it actually used so that money to go off and do something.
9:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So some of the examples are I was writing up some report and I needed to send it to somebody so it paid for a service that a lot of me to just host a PDF on a website.
10:01
[SPEAKER_02]: and I can just send that link to anyone and they could go for you with another time I was trying to get it to access.
10:06
[SPEAKER_02]: What's that service called?
10:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just write that down real quick.
10:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's called Stable Upload.
10:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I didn't interrupt, but I'm always like that.
10:13
[SPEAKER_02]: No, yeah.
10:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So then interact with some other services like a fire crawl or XA, which allow you to scrape website information.
10:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is particularly valuable if I tell my agent to go do research and it gets blocked by some sort of bot or paywall.
10:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It can just pay for access to that content.
10:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are kind of the organic use cases that are started to pop up and since it's launched about a year and a half ago now it's seen well over a hundred million transactions taking place.
10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So this machine, machine, macrotransaction, oriented economy is really where we're seeing a lot of the proliferation of this right now.
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is fascinating.
10:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to kind of circle back to something that you just said, which is this idea that AI agents are becoming the primary consumers of the web.
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen you talk about this as well.
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at the legacy rails, which is kind of what your point was, it's not really prepared or built for these AI agents.
11:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
11:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really built for humans when you look at things
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: card forms in bank hours in the manual KYC and the way that bank accounts are structured alongside the KYC.
11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It's meant for us.
11:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not meant for these and a really cool stat was that I think 76% of agent transactions fall below the 30% or 30 cent card minimum.
11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the economics don't even work kind of in the first place.
11:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It would seem as if this is kind of that solution.
11:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you say that that's right?
11:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
11:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And it doesn't even touch on some of the other benefits you get here, which is this whole cross-border permissionless period of payment never that we're starting to see come to life.
11:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if I wanted to give my agent a card, there's a whole KYC process, might be geostricted based on which jurisdiction I'm in.
11:59
[SPEAKER_02]: But agents are bored of us.
12:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think anyone anywhere is going to create some sort of service that I want my agent to interact with.
12:05
[SPEAKER_02]: As long as it passes some bare minimum sanctions, checks and whatnot that we're doing, I should be able to send that money anywhere in the world, especially if it's a micro-transaction that I should have in the free, instantly, all the things that you'd expect from a modern payment rail.
12:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's another unique benefit of crypto here.
12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, that's, it does feel like that's just the way that the world is moving, right?
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We've all seen probably a million different sci-fi or futuristic shows where people have some form of AI, right?
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like getting the groceries for them, it's hiring and making sure that, you know, maybe someone has a house cleaner and it's like, okay, well, every two weeks, it makes sure that they're scheduled at the right time or, you know, whatever, right?
12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's doing calendar management and it's all these little things.
12:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does just feel like that's the way that we're moving towards.
12:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if we truly do believe, which I think most people can agree, like that's the direction the world's going more tech-heavy, then the next proper step is how can we prepare and build and benefit off of the infrastructure?
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's really the first step, right?
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's what this feels like it is.
13:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it saying, let's prepare, let's build out and let's scale the infrastructure and really get this ball rolling.
13:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I fully agree.
13:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the fun things that's going to start to happen is you have these agents operating with more autonomy because you get them money.
13:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And the same way they can, with access to money on the internet, can do so much more than they can without it.
13:27
[SPEAKER_02]: You can imagine an agent that eventually runs a business.
13:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The simple example being a vending machine.
13:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You put enough sensors on there that the H&K can start to understand, okay, I'm running low on this, or there's a maintenance issue, let me hire somebody to do it.
13:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It can start to take out a lot of these tasks in a way that feels truly autonomous.
13:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we'll get back to this vision of dows as truly autonomous organizations once we have this AI infrastructure in place.
13:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So tell me a little bit about why Coinbase particularly cares so much about AI agents.
14:03
[SPEAKER_00]: products, I guess you would say that they launched or services, one of the other, maybe it's both.
14:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe AI is blending the line between product and service, a Coinbase advisor, which is the first AI powered SEC registered financial advisor that's literally embedded in your Coinbase app.
14:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I would love to know if you had anything to do with that, um, and, uh, sort of, you know, again, why is Coinbase, which you think, oh, they're a crypto exchange, like what, what are they doing building AI products?
14:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell us how they're thinking about it, and, um, yeah, all, all that.
14:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, advisement's had a fun.
14:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that was my project for the past year.
14:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Quibis has this program internally called NextBets.
14:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And the whole idea is anyone across the company can pitch an idea to the executive team.
14:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And if they like it, they give you a team to go fund it and build it out over the past year.
14:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So the idea that came to them with was advisor.
14:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And the whole idea was to make it as easy as possible and to for users to manage the money using AI.
15:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And the real core problem statement there is that there's a bit of an orchestration gap that exists today with trading platforms.
15:09
[SPEAKER_02]: People have these high level ideas that they want to execute on, but they don't necessarily have the time to constantly monitor the markets and make sure that strategy goes exactly as they think.
15:19
[SPEAKER_02]: For example, if you're watching the street of Formus and you want to log your short oil, you're going to have to be awake 24-7 watching the market's monitoring traffic information.
15:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything that would make your trademark profitable, but it's just too much from us people.
15:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And secondly, people don't necessarily know how to take these high-level concepts that they have.
15:37
[SPEAKER_02]: composed and down into financial premise.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I tell my advisor, hey, I want to invest in quantum computing or space exploration, I don't really know how what can I do.
15:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It can give me assets across crypto and derivatives and prediction arcets and equities, all the different things that I don't really have to think about that I can just execute seamlessly.
15:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And having it be from the,
15:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Registered fiduciary organization that's SEC licensed and CFTC registered means that me as a user can feel very comfortable and secure in the advice that I'm getting, and I don't have to, you know, jump through the same hoops that I have to to do this on an external interface.
16:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think broadly AI and is enabler of Coinbase customers getting the best experience for trading and payments, which are ultimately two of the goals that Coinbase is trying to drive.
16:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So cool.
16:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So cool.
16:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And how's the uptake been?
16:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Have there been people that are like, yeah, I'm going to trust it.
16:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give it 100 grand or, you know, whatever.
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I think, you know, most people have a financial advisor, somebody who's helping them plan for retirement.
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And they like the fact that they could just hop on the phone.
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: They could call them.
16:41
[SPEAKER_00]: There's somebody.
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, to walk them through things, do you view this?
16:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, what's kind of like been like the uptake?
16:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think you guys also had quarterly reports recently.
16:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe we could look at just like what's been publicly disclosed on that product.
16:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, do you see people just like having both their advisor and this agent?
17:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Or are people like just dropping their advisor and going full, full agentic?
17:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So one of the things that I think is particularly interesting about the advisor is that it helps lower the floor of who can now access high quality financial advice.
17:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Because typically, if you interact with the advisor, you have to have some sort of minimum stored with the advisor.
17:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that's not necessarily achievable by all of the customers on Coinbase.
17:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're able to scale and democratize access to financial advice using AI.
17:32
[SPEAKER_02]: and I think there will always be a need for a financial advisor to have, but they're not also online 24-7.
17:38
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's 3 a.m., and I noticed the markets are crashing overnight, I'd love somebody to chat to, even if it's a chap on, say, hey, what's going on should I be selling, what's your take on the markets and the latest of what's going on?
17:47
[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of the adoption that we've seen so far on the advisor, it's still super early in terms of our rollout.
17:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Right now, it's only available to about 1% of our Coinbase One members with a plan to gradually roll out to
17:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Over the coming months or so, across both Quimbase 1 and potentially regular retail users as well.
18:05
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're seeing some great traction.
18:06
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the early use cases that's fortunately no longer relevant, but was for the past six months is tax lost harvesting.
18:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So people would tell their agents, hey, you sell all my positions and then just like rebuy them back for me.
18:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And with no wash, shooting, really crypto, it's a great way to save people thousands of dollars.
18:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Very, very seamlessly that otherwise we require a lot of manual effort across all the different positions you might hold.
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: That is fascinating.
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I heard another example where basically people were talking about they gave agents access to their portfolio and it was like, hey can you help me optimize this and save money and it was like, yeah, you actually own this ETF or this crypto ETF and you can switch to this other one and it'll save you like X amount.
18:53
[SPEAKER_01]: because of the the custodial fees, right?
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, oh my gosh, I think it was on, he was like, oh, it's the whole lap in the holdings is like almost the same.
19:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you have like 99% correlation, but you're paying a higher fee.
19:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, AI, now that everybody has this data, and they can scrape all this data immediately, like it's gonna be a race to the bottom for fees for ETFs, too, and mutual funds.
19:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause you would imagine that most,
19:19
[SPEAKER_01]: forms of AI and agent, so whatever would make this choice.
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So those groups out there that have these really icacidium bees, what you should have if you have AI taking over people's portfolios, is it should be kind of forcing a mass exodus?
19:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Not to close fear, but it would be like, hey,
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone all of a sudden knows that you're paying a significantly higher fee and that there's other options out there with a near identical correlation.
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, Bryce, I think you're right.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that kind of incentivizes a world where people are more aware.
19:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But because they're more aware and incentivizes these people in charge, or those institutions in charge, to really lower those fees and make them more competitive.
19:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, yeah, it's kind of the same concept.
20:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Elon's talked about it, but like he's just the the loudest mouth.
20:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there's several other people in the AI space that talk about like the deflationary nature of AI, like if you could have all these products and services.
20:12
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, being created every day, you know, all day, then it drives the cost of product and services actually down.
20:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why AI could be a deflationary sort of sort of thing over the long term.
20:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, the custodial fees and the management fees, that's an obvious one for sure.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But I, you know, I guess we'll pause there and get your feedback, but there's so many other questions that I just want to just keep going.
20:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But what do you think about that concept?
20:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I totally agree.
20:40
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels like AI in substance is sort of the democratization of software and the ability to compose these different product and services together.
20:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it trickles not only from ETF providers and then providing best fees, but also just exchanges and venues broadly.
20:52
[SPEAKER_02]: If my agent has the ability to go migrate my account somewhere else, that's cheaper, while still in the same level of security, why wouldn't it do that?
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the real motive for these platforms when an AI can go access, whatever it wants about having the friction that a human traditionally has?
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, here's another one, right?
21:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine people who just don't have maybe the general knowledge of the crypto space to send things between different block chains and do this in that and imagine you have a bunch of fun somewhere and you're like, hey, I want all of this consolidated into USDC.
21:22
[SPEAKER_01]: in my Coinbase account or in my, you know, wherever account, in my Coinbase wallet, but it's a bunch of different blockchains.
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe it knows, hey, the most optimal way to do this is I'm going to transfer it all to this chain, which is the cheapest option.
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, send it all here, convert it there, and then it'll all appear in the wallet that way.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And it can kind of instantly identify the cheapest fastest
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: option to kind of do all this and I would say the average person might know that that's an option but might not know how to do it and might be afraid that they're going to make a mistake and lose their crypto and yada yada take a bridge risk and if this can kind of just be an all-in-one solution to solve those issues that's just I guess another way that you can see this be taken to ban and shove.
22:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally.
22:05
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot that we need to do to improve it.
22:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Because right now, it's regular toward requirements to have human-of-the-loop sort of tap to execute on every individual action.
22:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're moving toward a world where we can make this more discretionary and the advice we can trade 24-7 on your behalf.
22:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But for users who want to do that today, we have like a coin-base for agents.
22:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's our entity that lets you just plug into whatever existing agent you have and do all this autonomous trading.
22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can run on these fun strategies.
22:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I have my agent connected to a hyperlicker wallet and connected to the Coinbase exchange.
22:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And on Hyperlicker, whenever the funding rates on those derivatives are pointed in a certain direction, basically meaning I can short the asset and earn money from shorting that asset, I have my agent do that and automatically buy an equivalent amount of equities on Coinbase.
22:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to earn some sort of yield while just like my agent is all doing it for me.
22:54
[SPEAKER_02]: There's all sorts of fun things like that.
22:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Arbitrage on like Polymarket Persons call she, you know, there's a million different ways that you can have your agent start to make money.
23:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Holy smokes.
23:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is incredible because, you know, if you wanted to do that, uh, even just, you know, let's call two years ago or last year.
23:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be like, okay.
23:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you got to know Python, um, a coding language.
23:15
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to, uh, have like, you know, deep, deep level of proficiency and understanding of all this stuff.
23:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's like, bro, do you speak English, uh, or, or you could speak to it in any language.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure it's like, if you could do that, and you could come up with the idea.
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You could become an arbitrage trader.
23:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You can become an automated trend to follow or whatever.
23:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It's super, super cool.
23:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of the things I wanted to get your opinion on, it's this theory that
23:45
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of popped into my mind a few weeks back and then I heard somebody also talking about it where like every analyst say every equity analyst or every crypto analyst working on the desk at a fund I'm sure is using some you know foundational model like
24:03
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, Chattipy T's soul five six or Claude Fable like one of these things to just like hey stress test my idea or you know surface some ideas and like but now everybody who's controlling money and even just normal people at home like are using this.
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And my worry is that it's going to make the market a little bit more fragile, because everybody's going to be like listening to Claude.
24:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Claude is kind of, you know, the Claude that you run is the same Claude that I run is the same Claude that, you know, somebody else runs.
24:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you could put in different, you know, mark down files.
24:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You could have different data sets like piped in to like get some unique spin.
24:43
[SPEAKER_00]: But do you think like everybody
24:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a great point.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I think one very coherent way to put this is if everybody puts in their cloth, hey, go make me money.
25:00
[SPEAKER_02]: The diverse between those strategies is going to be very minimal and it's going to result in a lot of cloths running the same exact thing.
25:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do think in some sense that it really does come down to the user and the owner is still in the user to provide the ideas and the like, you know, quote unquote alpha that they have to these agents for them to actually do any sort of profitable trading.
25:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know necessarily if it makes the market fragile at the scale at which we're seeing AI originally today.
25:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And frankly, if it got to that point, and I think it would be a great sign that a gente trading has a really strong future.
25:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And what it also does is it opens up this opportunity that we even think a lot about for how do you give agents access to proprietary data that help them make decisions?
25:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So how can I plug in my agent to not only my Coinbase account to the Coinbase MCP, but also can I give it access to Artemis and Masari and Nansen and Coinglass in all of these different data sources that can help my agent make more well-informed decisions.
25:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things we're releasing that I'm pretty excited about is the ability for your agent to pay for X4O2 services directly from your Coinbase balance.
26:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So now I can tell my agent hey, every single morning, let's see where the smart money is moving on chain and let's just follow
26:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can do that, have it set up, run entirely without me there.
26:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I can ask it for information about Artemis and what the whale movements are or where we're seeing different money moving around on Arkham or all these different platforms that previously would require somebody to have a decent bit of technical knowledge and proficiency to get it set up, not to mention pain for a subscription, all now available to my agent very cheaply.
26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And that I think is going to be part of the differentiation between various different models and how they make decisions as the data behind them.
26:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So as every, like you just mentioned, Artemis, and there's, you know, D-Fi, Lama, and there's all, you know, CoinGekko, CoinMarketGekko, all these different data providers, CoinGlass, are you saying that potentially, X402 could be the death of the annual or monthly subscription,
26:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, because a lot of the times, you know, if I want to, you know, use defy law or something, I'm like, oh, do I really want to pay for, like, you know, monthly, like, you know, whatever it is, hundreds of dollars.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, or do I just, I really just want this one little piece of data in it, and I just want that one thing.
27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, does X402 enable that, um, on its own, or does defy law, I also have to like opt into that.
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's a two sided marketplace, basically, right?
27:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, to set a marketplace, but I mean, all those games I just mentioned are all on X4 or 2 today.
27:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can do it.
27:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Just give your agent a wallet and say, hey, go check on the ants and go check on our Arkham.
27:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the list goes on and on and on.
27:37
[SPEAKER_02]: The sorry, all of the big data providers, you know, CoinMarket Capcoin, Gecko, etc.
27:42
[SPEAKER_02]: are all integrated with X4 or 2.
27:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can just literally have your agent go pay exactly as you described today.
27:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, we're seeing some really good traction on the supply side for these, uh,
27:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Specifically this trading use case, everyone kind of is now acknowledging that there's a compelling opportunity to build out this sort of data marketplace.
27:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you're familiar with OpenRouter as this ability to aggregate all the different LLMs and AI models behind a single platform, I think X4 or 2 is an opportunity to, in some sense, disintermediate that for more than just the AI industry.
28:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And now you can access all of these different things, which are actually better together, and easier for a user than it otherwise would be.
28:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a resource that shows us like a living, every evolving resource of everybody that has X402 enabled?
28:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, you know, she said, oh, all those names that you just mentioned, they all have X402 enabled.
28:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, I crypto podcast, I trade every day, like, I didn't actually even know that.
28:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm like, I should just, is there a website that tracks all this?
28:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And then also,
28:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's a good resource that you would recommend our listeners who are like, oh my gosh, they're foaming at the mouth.
28:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to learn how to do this.
28:52
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your guys' version of the Anthropica Academy or something like that?
28:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, yep.
28:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So the two resources that are most helpful, one is just agentic.market.
29:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's our website that services all of the different providers that are available, or at least like a curated list of them.
29:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And then to actually see stats about what's being used in volume and whatnot, I would recommend checking out x4o2scan.com.
29:16
[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of resources on where to get started, there's really two places.
29:20
[SPEAKER_02]: One, you can just point your agent at coinbase.com slash skill dot MD and tell it to get set up with an agent to quality or get your coinbase account ready to go so you can start paying for these things or you can go to our documentation which is at docs.cdp.coinbase.com.
29:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Both of those resources should have everything you need to get started.
29:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so much simpler than you can imagine.
29:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Once you have a wallet set up, it's like the last thing you ever really think about it.
29:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And now you're just now your agent's ready to go.
29:44
[SPEAKER_02]: You do it on CHPT, Claude, Proplex Steve, everywhere.
29:48
[SPEAKER_00]: How freakin' cool, man, do the agents pay taxes or does the human who owns the agent pay the taxes?
30:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Human who owns the agent pays the taxes, unfortunately.
30:03
[SPEAKER_02]: There's still a big, outstanding question.
30:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
30:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
30:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think identity and taxes are one of the few areas with agents that there's a lot of greenfield space
30:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I imagine we'll see a very similar standard to what came out with X402, potentially even from the X402 foundation around identity or how you start to give these agents a little bit more sovereignty on the internet.
30:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, man, we have talked about so many different ways to apply and use agents.
30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Two questions come to my mind is number one, how are you seeing
30:38
[SPEAKER_01]: agents being used the most right now, and then do you think that that will change, and if so, how do you think agents will be used the most in five years?
30:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the boring answer for today is coding, especially in enterprise settings.
30:57
[SPEAKER_02]: At least the one that I see the most in terms of where the most token volume is really happening.
31:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes sense.
31:02
[SPEAKER_02]: The enterprises are very price-incensitive.
31:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I personally don't care if my agent is chugging through credits on Brian's dime.
31:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So, might as well keep on running those.
31:12
[SPEAKER_02]: In the consumer-facing world, I saw some chart recently, and it's like the top use cases are around just searching as a replacement for people and companionship and therapy, like an AI friend, which is somewhat dystopian, but still very interesting.
31:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Where we are right now, the onus is almost on these chat interfaces, chat to PT, cloud, wherever people are going to expose some of the more advanced functionality and make it easy and intuitive for users to interact with.
31:40
[SPEAKER_02]: People know the chat box because it's what they're used to with Google.
31:45
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't necessarily know that you can have it check your email or start to interact with all these other things in your personal life, make dinner reservations for you.
31:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That type of stuff I think there is going to be a bit of a discovery process to bring the
31:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Now billions of users interact with AI into this new paradigm and you know we see the frontier of it with things like open claw and clawed code and those rules but they're still very difficult to be accessed by the traditional mainstream consumer audience.
32:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's an effort to be done both by apps and plugins and all these different things but also by these chat harnesses themselves to make that easier for everyone.
32:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there's there's big efforts on the on the education side as well guys like us just trying to try to make this as easy as possible for people to access and learn about and do you know just just work with trusted products and stuff like that so and we're super happy that we were able to have you on a couple more questions for you you know stable coins are obviously a big part of this US DC from circle partnered up with Coinbase.
32:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there an ability to pay with other cryptocurrencies on X402?
32:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Say I have Bitcoin?
32:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Say I have Solana or some random meme coin?
33:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there the ability now or potentially in the future to kind of all integrate that next 402?
33:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally, that's available today.
33:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So, wow, in terms of network support, each of the different coin chain foundations is responsible for their own implementation.
33:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Explore through itself is actually governed in its own separate foundation.
33:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So we spun it out of coin base.
33:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And now it's a body of Coinbase, Cloud Flare, Strike AWS, Shopify, MX, Visa, MasterCard, all of the big names that you can imagine in payments, processing and related fields.
33:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's particularly interesting about that is there's this perception that X4 or 2 is crypto only.
33:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And while it's crypto first, there's absolutely no reason that any of those car providers could eventually add their own network scheme or support X4 or 2 based transactions
33:56
[SPEAKER_02]: for example.
33:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And though Coinbase specifically believes that stablecoins are going to be the cheapest fastest, most efficient option.
34:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And today I think over 99% of a jitter transactions or at least export of two transactions are happening using USDC because it's what merchants prefer as a stable currency.
34:11
[SPEAKER_02]: There's absolutely no reason you can expand that into anything you want.
34:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, so cool.
34:17
[SPEAKER_00]: What's on the cutting edge right now?
34:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Where you're looking at, I always like to ask experts kind of like, what is it that you're really excited about?
34:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's all this stuff that you've already built.
34:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in the past, it's working, you're like, I mean, because even when I ask the question about like, oh, all these different networks, I thought you were going to say, oh, yeah, that's on the road map, like eventually we'll get there.
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're freezing past that.
34:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's on the cutting edge for you guys?
34:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
34:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the main thing is we've seen incredible sort of, you know, it's the two side of marketplace we have supply and demand.
34:47
[SPEAKER_02]: The supply side has been amazing.
34:48
[SPEAKER_02]: We have Amazon Web Services going live now with, like, literally exploratory payments and discovery for all of their enterprise builders of agents.
34:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, the adoption has been incredible.
34:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And cloud flers announcing that you can start, you know, gating your websites behind X4 or two-based transactions.
35:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you have an agent that comes to your site, you're not going to make any revenue off of that today, but you can have an agent, you know, pay a micro transaction to do that.
35:12
[SPEAKER_02]: All that's on the supply site though, and we haven't seen any real consumer demand side adoption.
35:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And part of what we're thinking about is, as Coinbase, what could we do to help drive that, where is our sort of core competency, and really the truth is that's trading.
35:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think through the work that we're doing to sort of bring into trading to life and that fly, we'll talk about earlier around.
35:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Agent goes off and pays for access to premium data that makes the trades more profitable therefore increases the demand for data.
35:37
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where I think we're going to see a lot of this early initial traction for a gentrating and payments both happening together in general money management.
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's one.
35:45
[SPEAKER_02]: The other one that's really far out that I'm super excited about is like
35:49
[SPEAKER_02]: The crypto nerdy me is really excited to see how far we can push the realms of a fully decentralized autonomous agent.
35:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So, like, can you run this in such a way that it really feels like a true decentralized life form?
36:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You just give it a wallet, it pays for its own hosting, it pays for its own infrastructure, and services, and all the different stuff.
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: such that there's really no way to shut it down.
36:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it's a bit of a scary thought, but it's something that's inevitable and it's something that I'm quite excited to see start to come to life now that all the infrastructure and technologies in place.
36:21
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you say to the, to the person that's listening out there, maybe they're not two-person tech savvy, and it just seems a bit overwhelming or intimidating?
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you, maybe say to them to get them a little bit more familiar or comfortable or, or,
36:37
[SPEAKER_01]: make it seem like it's not this big mountain of like I don't know how I'm going to do this like I maybe turn on my computer and I can get on to an exchange but like that's a lot for me.
36:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a path forward for this people?
36:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
36:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is why we're building Coinbase Advisor inside the app.
36:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one tap away.
36:55
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're more comfortable interacting with chat, GPT, it takes you literally a minute to get set up.
37:00
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're concerned that your agent is going to go rogue and blow up your balance, you can have a setting on where literally every single interaction.
37:06
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a nice widget that pops up and you have to manually approve all of those before your agent can do it.
37:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's very analogous to self-driving cars, you know, a decade ago, if any of us thought we would be sitting in a car that can drive itself, you'd call it, you'd call yourself crazy.
37:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But it started with just the latest, it started with ads for parallel parking and how easy that is and now we're seeing this massive progression in both the improvements in this technology and the user trust and really that's where it starts.
37:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll just encourage people to play around with it and put around with it.
37:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I promise you it's easier than you think.
37:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's incredible.
37:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's self-driving cars.
37:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're talking about the robots in the house.
37:43
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be a huge piece of the future.
37:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this rock-bought thing is super cool.
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically like you have all these different little AI agents.
37:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same kind of concept.
37:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But I could just imagine wanting to text my roomba, be like, hey, clean the kitchen.
38:02
[SPEAKER_00]: and you're just in the grockbott interface and, you know, one of the characters is your roombott and you're just texting it demands or your optimist robot, hey, go clean the dishes and I was telling somebody else about this, I was like, um, using, uh, clawed to teach a skill.
38:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, I have, you know, certain things that I do every single day, whether it's a market reports and, you know, position reports and that kind of stuff, where you could just be like, you know, watch me ride along with me.
38:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a button now.
38:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, grock has it.
38:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Chatchipity has it.
38:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Teach a skill.
38:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it screen records your actions.
38:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And it allows you to log in, click around, export things, upload it to a Google Drive or wherever, do analysis on it.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you could say, run that every day forever.
38:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, it just does it.
38:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's so cool.
38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, oh my gosh, that's going to be what we do with robots.
38:56
[SPEAKER_00]: we're going to it's going to watch us do our dishes or fold our laundry or put our clothes away.
39:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to watch us do it one or two times and then it's going to say, okay, thank you, Bryce.
39:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand, you know, the task.
39:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, whatever you want me to do this task, tell me,
39:12
[SPEAKER_00]: do my laundry or whatever and it's just going to do it and it's just you know some will come preloaded with certain skills and it'll just need your spatial mapping but I mean this is to me just such an exciting exciting time and it's funny like how you know guys like me and Brendan we started out as crypto traders and investors and stuff and here we are having a conversation about the future of robots and AI it's like
39:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, you know, it makes me feel just as excited as when I heard about crypto the first time.
39:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes me feel just as excited as, like, under, you know, this concept of, you know, stateless money and, you know, non-sovereign control over, you know, execution layers and settlement, like all that kind of stuff or, like, man, this is a big idea.
39:51
[SPEAKER_00]: AI is, is just as big, if not, if not bigger.
39:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, there's a lot of, a lot of really, you know, like you said, green fields in this right now.
40:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Brennan, any last questions for Lincoln while we still have some time here?
40:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we hit on most of them.
40:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if anything, I'm walking out of this with a much better understanding about how all of this is going to affect us moving forward.
40:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, Crypto is a big part of it.
40:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like Crypto is the real big infrastructure on it.
40:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, from what I'm taking away here, it seems like Coinbase is play is that AI companies are going to be spending in companies in general are going to be spending billions on all these competing models and everything in coinbase is saying hey let's build the financial system let's focus on infrastructure and that's what all of these kind of winning models can run on and so is that right Lincoln.
40:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
40:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we think AI-FI or AI finance covers a genetic trading and a genetic payments, and this is in an episode of the overall AI and an agent build out that we're seeing.
41:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And Coinbase's goal here is to be the backbone of the ancient economy, whether that's through providing advice, through Coinbase advisor, letting people plug in their Coinbase account into their agent through Coinbase for agents, or even just paying with X402 and Coinbase for business.
41:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do actually maybe have a related question to that.
41:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So if people want to maybe get exposure to this idea and this plan, this stuff that we talked about, let's say that a lot of the stuff that we talked about takes off, including X402 and the different products, is that something that would go back
41:36
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe towards Coinbase.
41:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you said the X4 or two is now separate from Coinbase.
41:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?
41:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So like say this all succeeds and it's massive and you guys are this form of infrastructure that everyone's using.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that something that you would see on like in earnings call or like a quarterly report from Coinbase?
41:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is that now separate?
41:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, so X4 or 2 itself as a standard is technically separate.
42:00
[SPEAKER_02]: However, Coinbase has a lot of the pieces of infrastructure required to make these payments actually happen at scale.
42:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're running on USDC, on base, they're using Coinbase's wallets, or the...
42:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, on platform retail, USDC dollars that are flowing through all of this.
42:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Coinbase is the path here with X4 or two is to create an open standard, and through that create as much value as possible, and then focus on capturing a little bit of that.
42:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you look at what Google did with Android, Google acquired the Android operating system and took the opposite approach to what Apple did with iOS and made it available for everything, from cars, to Kindles, to Google funds.
42:38
[SPEAKER_02]: and that approach now resulted in Android being an 80% of operating systems worldwide and that's what we want to explore too to be.
42:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow incredible love it man.
42:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Lincoln can we have you back on again in a quarter or two?
42:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, things are things are going on to wrap and clip over there at Coinbase and I know that the platform is going to keep involved in so we really appreciate your time again.
43:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We welcome you back and I hope everybody at home who was watching or you know you're on your way to work or anybody to school whatever you're listening.
43:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep following along come back next week.
43:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have some more incredible guests for you.
43:13
[SPEAKER_00]: same time, same place.
43:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Lincoln, enjoy the beginnings of hopefully a new bull market.
43:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll check in with you soon and thanks again for your time.
43:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
43:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks guys, this is great.