Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / The Making Of Yes '90125' [Episode 212]

Transcript

The Making Of Yes '90125' [Episode 212] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

0:00
Speaker 1: We're totally boomed in rock and roll.
0:04
Speaker 2: I mean gotta leave you. You're reading Little Hans says
0:06
Speaker 2: it's time to rock and roll.
0:08
Speaker 1: Read roll up.
0:09
Speaker 2: We are totally booked.
0:16
Speaker 1: Welcome back to book don Rock the podcast for those
0:18
Speaker 1: about to read and rock. Find the podcast at booked
0:21
Speaker 1: on rock dot com. All the episodes there in audio
0:25
Speaker 1: and video, plus links to all of the social media sites,
0:28
Speaker 1: and stay up to date on the latest rockbook releases
0:32
Speaker 1: through booked on rock dot com. Stephen Lamb is a
0:35
Speaker 1: returning guest. He is the author of the brand new
0:38
Speaker 1: book part of Sonic Bond's Rock Classics series, titled Yes
0:41
Speaker 1: nine O one two five Against the Odds. Nine on
0:44
Speaker 1: one two five became Yes's best selling album after its
0:47
Speaker 1: release in November of nineteen eighty three. Featuring new interviews
0:50
Speaker 1: with several of the key players, including singer John Anderson
0:53
Speaker 1: and guitarist Trevor Raven, this book traces the complicated story
0:57
Speaker 1: of the album from its nineteen eighty one demos to
0:59
Speaker 1: the conclusion of yes His massive world tour in nineteen
1:02
Speaker 1: eighty five. A great Conversation with Steven takes us through
1:06
Speaker 1: all the tracks, including the huge hit owner of a
1:08
Speaker 1: lonely heart story behind the album title, the interesting story
1:12
Speaker 1: behind the album cover, something you probably never would have noticed.
1:16
Speaker 1: All that, and a whole lot more all coming up
1:18
Speaker 1: A link to here. All of nine oh one two
1:20
Speaker 1: five by Yes can be found on the show notes page. Steven,
1:23
Speaker 1: welcome back to the podcast. Great to see you again,
1:26
Speaker 1: and do you Eric, Great to see you, Yes, nine
1:29
Speaker 1: oh one two five, Just chatting before we started recording
1:32
Speaker 1: that this was one of those albums I certainly recall
1:35
Speaker 1: as a thirteen year old seeing the video on MTV
1:41
Speaker 1: constantly right for the hit single off of it. But
1:45
Speaker 1: there's so much more than just the hit single. So
1:48
Speaker 1: we're going to get to the tracks on this one.
1:51
Speaker 1: Starting with a forward, you write about the bands like Yes,
1:55
Speaker 1: who are huge in the seventies but now under a
1:58
Speaker 1: lot of pressure from the label in the eighties to
2:01
Speaker 1: set up the recording of this album. Can you talk
2:03
Speaker 1: about that pressure Yes was facing heading in to nine
2:06
Speaker 1: oh one two five.
2:07
Speaker 2: It's a complicated story actually, because of course they weren't.
2:11
Speaker 2: Yes really got them coming into the album. It was
2:14
Speaker 2: they were almost Yes by a kind of managerial maneuvering.
2:22
Speaker 2: They were meant to be a band called called Cinema,
2:26
Speaker 2: which was Trevor Rabin, Chris quill and White and Tony Kaye.
2:32
Speaker 2: But they were they became yes right at the end
2:37
Speaker 2: of the process. The other important thing I think to
2:40
Speaker 2: say at this point of course, it's not just pressure.
2:43
Speaker 2: They had no label at all. They had the assumption
2:50
Speaker 2: was was always that they would probably be signed back
2:52
Speaker 2: to Atlantic, the label that they had been signed to
2:56
Speaker 2: in the seventies, but it was by no means a
2:59
Speaker 2: signed deal. So for the entire recording process, right up
3:03
Speaker 2: until Kind of Owner of a Lonely Heart was finished,
3:08
Speaker 2: they didn't have a deal. So the whole thing was
3:12
Speaker 2: being financed with on a development deal provided by Atlantic,
3:15
Speaker 2: but also by Phil Carson from Atlantic. It was back
3:18
Speaker 2: personally bankrolling the whole thing. So that kind of added
3:21
Speaker 2: to the pressure. So Chris Guire has always said Armaturtkin
3:25
Speaker 2: from Atlantic said to them, well, we really need a
3:28
Speaker 2: hit single this time. But actually it was worse than that.
3:31
Speaker 2: They weren't signed at all. So imagine the pressure that
3:34
Speaker 2: essentially you're this new band, you haven't got a label.
3:37
Speaker 2: You rehearse for a huge amount of time to pull
3:43
Speaker 2: an album that you read it up together, but you're
3:45
Speaker 2: still not signed, so it's the bit so then there's
3:51
Speaker 2: a little bit of traction where somebody says, well, wouldn't
3:54
Speaker 2: it be better if we called this Yes? And wouldn't
3:57
Speaker 2: better if we've got John Andsen back? And then that's
4:00
Speaker 2: when you get the the the switch to Yes. And
4:03
Speaker 2: it's because they had this kind of amazing hits potential
4:06
Speaker 2: hit single in the bag.
4:09
Speaker 1: The rest is possibly no, Yes, right, I mean, that
4:11
Speaker 1: was it. That was the thing that was Yes was
4:13
Speaker 1: pretty much done. It was it seemed like they had
4:15
Speaker 1: run their course, right, because if you go back to
4:18
Speaker 1: January of eighty one, after the band completes that Drama tour,
4:22
Speaker 1: there's a meeting at Steve Howe's house right in Hampstead.
4:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
4:25
Speaker 1: What happened during that meeting in terms of the future
4:28
Speaker 1: or the end of Yes, Well.
4:30
Speaker 2: There's been lots of reports of that meeting, and many
4:34
Speaker 2: of them are sort of couched in diplomacy. Steve Howe's
4:38
Speaker 2: report in his in his really Good autobiography is that
4:43
Speaker 2: you know, Trevor Hall and went on to do the
4:45
Speaker 2: next Buggles album. Chris Squire and Allen White decides they've
4:48
Speaker 2: got their wanting to go at God and play with
4:50
Speaker 2: Jimmy Page. I don't think either of those things would
4:53
Speaker 2: were actually decided at that point, but it was kind
4:56
Speaker 2: of convenient thing to say, I guess, which left Steve
4:59
Speaker 2: how and Jeff Down holding yes with no, with no
5:01
Speaker 2: desire to carry on. But if you read Trevor Horn's
5:04
Speaker 2: whghobiography on the same subject, he says, well, they fired me.
5:08
Speaker 2: I was fired, and he was. He's kind of quite
5:11
Speaker 2: facialistic about it, and understandably so, because he had done
5:15
Speaker 2: this tour. He hadn't you know, his singing hadn't been
5:20
Speaker 2: as good as the band hoped it would be, and
5:23
Speaker 2: so you know, they's I think people ends up being
5:27
Speaker 2: a bit depressed after it, and they ended and so
5:29
Speaker 2: he so they Trevor Horn essentially got kicked out of
5:33
Speaker 2: the band because of that. Jeff Downs didn't, but but
5:37
Speaker 2: but Trevor horns Horn did. He probably should never have
5:40
Speaker 2: done the whole thing, really because he was though the
5:43
Speaker 2: album that the Drama Album is brilliant, he wasn't up
5:47
Speaker 2: to doing these huge tours as a lead singer. Singing
5:50
Speaker 2: in a vocal range was slightly too high for him.
5:53
Speaker 2: It was never going to work.
5:54
Speaker 1: And as you said, John Anderson, he does come back,
5:57
Speaker 1: but that's not like an immediate thing. There's a little
5:58
Speaker 1: bit of a story behind that. Two. So yeah, the
6:01
Speaker 1: lineup on nine oh one two five is John Anderson
6:03
Speaker 1: back on the vocals. You get Trevor Raben and guitar
6:06
Speaker 1: and keyboards, Chris Squire and bass, Tony k on him
6:09
Speaker 1: and organ an electric piano, and Alan White on drums.
6:12
Speaker 1: So Trevor Horn briefly the singer just what two three
6:15
Speaker 1: years before doesn't work out, but it's interesting he's back
6:18
Speaker 1: with the band, but this time as the producer, which
6:20
Speaker 1: is which is an interesting move there, right, Yeah, yeah.
6:25
Speaker 2: Well yes, but he was almost, and this is in
6:28
Speaker 2: the book. He was almost. He tried out to be
6:31
Speaker 2: singer of that band as well. He Chris Guire got
6:35
Speaker 2: him along and he say, why don't you try out?
6:38
Speaker 2: You could? You could sing, Trevor could, Trevor Horn could
6:41
Speaker 2: just sorry, Trevor Rapin could sing, and I could sing,
6:44
Speaker 2: meaning Chris Guire. So he turns up at the rehearsal
6:49
Speaker 2: studio and h he turns up with the guitar and
6:53
Speaker 2: Trevor Trevor raping slightly bitually I think says uh, says,
6:59
Speaker 2: you're gonna play that thing or is it just the prop?
7:00
Speaker 2: So they try a rehearsal with Trevor Horn singing and
7:04
Speaker 2: it doesn't work out and Trevor Horn disappears and Trevor
7:07
Speaker 2: Rabin is then much happier. But when they get into
7:10
Speaker 2: the studio they actually become really and they to this
7:14
Speaker 2: day they're actually now quite good friends. So but the
7:17
Speaker 2: choice of Trevor Horn to produce came about because well
7:25
Speaker 2: officially it came about because it didn't work out with
7:28
Speaker 2: all the other producers they were talking to, so they
7:30
Speaker 2: were they were meetings with Mutt Langer and that.
7:35
Speaker 1: Is really interesting. Imagine that.
7:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, Trevor Rabin's sort of mentor at in South Africa.
7:45
Speaker 2: They met with Roy Thomas Baker and also the man
7:49
Speaker 2: Bob Ezrin was the man that was in that was
7:51
Speaker 2: really in the frame to produce as well, and he
7:53
Speaker 2: later produced Trevor Rabin, but none of them end up
7:56
Speaker 2: doing it. I suspect this is speculation on my part.
8:00
Speaker 2: I suspect it was down to the amount of money
8:02
Speaker 2: that was available, which which wouldn't have been very much
8:05
Speaker 2: because the Bath had no deal. So in the end,
8:08
Speaker 2: Trevor Horn gets the gig because he's a known quantity.
8:10
Speaker 2: He kind of produced really most of Drama and Who
8:15
Speaker 2: was Also he had moved into producing, so at that
8:18
Speaker 2: point he had produced when he'd done the second Bungles album,
8:23
Speaker 2: which is a kind of a sort of sonic manifesto
8:26
Speaker 2: really because there's so many different styles of music on it.
8:29
Speaker 2: He had done the UK pop band Dollar. I had
8:34
Speaker 2: no idea whether they had hits in the in the
8:37
Speaker 2: in the USA probably not. But he also did the
8:40
Speaker 2: the first ABC album and that went on to become
8:45
Speaker 2: a huge so he was getting Oh and he just
8:48
Speaker 2: produced Malcolm McLaren, Malcolm McLaren's album Duck Rock in New York,
8:53
Speaker 2: so he so he was sort of gaining momentum as
8:57
Speaker 2: a sort of pop a very hip pop producer, and
9:00
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, this band, this banch of Old
9:02
Speaker 2: Dinosaurs ask him to ask him to produce them, and
9:05
Speaker 2: his wife Ji se Claire says, why do you want
9:07
Speaker 2: to do this? Of course, Trevor Hall loved the band.
9:09
Speaker 2: They were his favorite band, so even though they'd fired him,
9:12
Speaker 2: he kind of thinks, I really like Chris, I really
9:16
Speaker 2: want to do it, So he ends up doing it.
9:18
Speaker 2: He ends up producing. So it's yeah.
9:21
Speaker 1: And as for John Anderson, talk about how they were
9:23
Speaker 1: able to get him back in the band. Oh, well,
9:25
Speaker 1: that's just where Phil Carson comes in.
9:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean Phil Carson had been bankrolling the
9:30
Speaker 2: whole project. He was an executive at Atlantic and he
9:33
Speaker 2: had he had been involved in a lot of the
9:36
Speaker 2: stuff that had happened yes in the seventies, So in fact,
9:40
Speaker 2: when the Cinema project started, he was heavily involved. He
9:44
Speaker 2: was providing the money. Also, because of course Trevor Rabin
9:48
Speaker 2: and Tony Kay both lived in California. They couldn't really
9:53
Speaker 2: afford to put them in put them up in hotels,
9:55
Speaker 2: but for months and months and months, so they both
9:58
Speaker 2: lived initially at least they lived with Phil Casson, as
10:01
Speaker 2: Tony Kay said to me, in the same bed for
10:04
Speaker 2: a while. So Phil Carson is very so. But Phil
10:10
Speaker 2: Carson told me that his plan was that he should
10:12
Speaker 2: always be Yes. He always would much have preferred it
10:15
Speaker 2: be Yes and be Cinema because you know, an established
10:19
Speaker 2: bands much easier to sell understandably, you know, you know.
10:23
Speaker 2: So so Cinema go to the studio with Trevor Horn,
10:28
Speaker 2: they produce the album the album is finished, all the
10:31
Speaker 2: overdubs are done, but there's a little bit of dissatisfaction.
10:36
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of worry. Trevor Horn and Phil
10:39
Speaker 2: Carson mainly a bit worried that maybe it's not quite
10:43
Speaker 2: as good as it might be, or maybe we still
10:45
Speaker 2: need some bits. So gradually they decide, well, okay, let's
10:49
Speaker 2: let's see if we can talk to John Anderson. Chris
10:52
Speaker 2: Guirren and Wayne and White aren't keen on this for
10:55
Speaker 2: obvious but understandable reasons, I guess, So they have to
11:00
Speaker 2: reach John. John lives in France at this point and
11:04
Speaker 2: no one's got a number for him. So Phil car
11:07
Speaker 2: and Ring calls John Andsen's roady and just happens that
11:14
Speaker 2: John Andson is about to appear in a call box
11:17
Speaker 2: on the King's Road in London, and the Road is
11:19
Speaker 2: about to call him, so Phil Carson calls him instead.
11:22
Speaker 2: John said, yeah, okay, I'm interested, but Chris has to
11:25
Speaker 2: talk to me. So Chris then has to talk to him.
11:27
Speaker 2: Chris plays him some stuff, and then of course he
11:30
Speaker 2: needs to talk to Trevor Horn as well. So all
11:32
Speaker 2: these meetings take place and John agrees to come back.
11:35
Speaker 2: He goes to sing Owner of Her Only Heart, and
11:38
Speaker 2: then he starts getting into the whole album, and gradually,
11:40
Speaker 2: of course, of of course, about three or four weeks,
11:43
Speaker 2: he adds all his parts. It is important because he's
11:48
Speaker 2: not just singing stuff. He's adding lyrics, he's adding melodies,
11:53
Speaker 2: he's changing a lot of lyrics less than he would
11:56
Speaker 2: like to have done. Butt, He's changing a lot of lyrics,
11:58
Speaker 2: and he sprinkles lots of fairy dust though with that album.
12:00
Speaker 2: That makes it, let's say, twenty percent better. So what
12:05
Speaker 2: might have been a very good album suddenly becomes a
12:07
Speaker 2: great album and it makes all the difference. So yeah, you.
12:12
Speaker 1: Should talk about it. A couple guys there weren't too
12:15
Speaker 1: keen on having John coming back, and I want to
12:17
Speaker 1: get to that because Trevor Horne said he had some
12:19
Speaker 1: difficulty early on working with the band. He said the
12:22
Speaker 1: project was quote a ship be set by turbulence.
12:25
Speaker 3: Yeah that's actually Trevor's emin see that's that's lifted from
12:29
Speaker 3: his autobiography and yeah, it's well, put yourself in Trevor's shoes.
12:35
Speaker 2: Trevor was a relatively inexperienced producer for a start, and
12:42
Speaker 2: he worked with younger bands using loads of modern technology.
12:46
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, he is he's in the studio
12:50
Speaker 2: with four experienced musicians, including Trevor Rabin who Trevor Aravin
12:56
Speaker 2: was younger, but he'd been around studios for a long time,
12:58
Speaker 2: so he'd done three years three so albums. He'd done
13:00
Speaker 2: a couple of albums with his band Rabbit in South Africa,
13:03
Speaker 2: and he knew about recording. So all these guys, all
13:07
Speaker 2: of a sudden, these are older guys, and they've got opinions.
13:10
Speaker 2: They don't like what's coming out of their monitors. They
13:13
Speaker 2: want to stop stuff, they want to start stuff, they
13:15
Speaker 2: want to complain about things. And they weren't as malleable
13:19
Speaker 2: as say the members of ABC, who for whom it
13:22
Speaker 2: was their first time in a studio really might have been.
13:25
Speaker 2: So they it wasn't an easy time for him. Now,
13:29
Speaker 2: Tony kay said to me, and again, all these things
13:33
Speaker 2: are you know, I would love to be able to
13:36
Speaker 2: sit down with some of these guys and talk about
13:37
Speaker 2: it and talk about this stuff for ours, but I've
13:39
Speaker 2: never had that opportunity. But I have spoken to some
13:41
Speaker 2: of these guys, and Tony Kaye looks at it from
13:44
Speaker 2: a different point of view. He wasn't impressed by Trevor
13:47
Speaker 2: Horn at the time. He thought that Trevor Horn, that
13:51
Speaker 2: the vibe that came across was that Treble Horn wasn't
13:53
Speaker 2: in charge and that what he was doing was a
13:55
Speaker 2: bit all over the place. And when he did when
13:59
Speaker 2: he recall did he recorded some keyboards for a Deaf
14:03
Speaker 2: Leopard album that's been recorded at the same roughly the
14:06
Speaker 2: same time by Mutt Langer, and he when he went
14:09
Speaker 2: into those sessions, he wrizing Mutt Langer was in charge.
14:13
Speaker 2: He's telling them exactly what they should be doing. Trevor
14:16
Speaker 2: Hall's not doing not doing this. He's got all these
14:18
Speaker 2: voices in his ear and he's not coping with it
14:20
Speaker 2: very well. That's the implication anyway. That may not be true,
14:24
Speaker 2: but that's what Tony Kaye certainly implied when I spoke.
14:28
Speaker 1: To him about it. That must have been Deaf Leppard's Pyromania.
14:32
Speaker 2: I think it's Pania, Yeah, yeah, and what was it?
14:35
Speaker 1: John didn't like engineer Gary Langan either, right, But it's
14:39
Speaker 1: a story about lang and switching off the top back button.
14:42
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that that comes from Trevor Horn.
14:46
Speaker 2: Trevorhorn's book book. So, so I think I think John John,
14:53
Speaker 2: and today he's not. I mean, I've spoken to John
14:55
Speaker 2: a couple of times in the last few months and
14:56
Speaker 2: he's been nothing absolutely charming. He couldn't be me more wonderful.
15:01
Speaker 2: But he had a reputation for being sometimes a little
15:04
Speaker 2: bit difficult in this in the studio, and he and
15:06
Speaker 2: Gary Langham kind of locked horns a bit, and and
15:11
Speaker 2: and Gary took a dislike to him. You have bear
15:14
Speaker 2: in mind that Gary had been working on that album
15:15
Speaker 2: for quite a long time in that stage, so tempers
15:18
Speaker 2: may have been getting frayed anyway, just because you know,
15:21
Speaker 2: they were getting a bit they were getting a bit
15:23
Speaker 2: tired of working on the same on the same record
15:25
Speaker 2: for months up the month switch. So the story, Yeah,
15:30
Speaker 2: so there's a story where he where he I won't
15:34
Speaker 2: use the word. He used the word.
15:36
Speaker 1: I was going to say, we can leave that word out.
15:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but he kind of he basically he switches
15:41
Speaker 2: off the talk back button so he has to physically
15:43
Speaker 2: press it down to speak to Jonson, and then he
15:45
Speaker 2: would take his finger off the talk back button and
15:48
Speaker 2: say you idiot or something like that, and Trevor Horn
15:53
Speaker 2: was completely was terrified that he was going to forget
15:56
Speaker 2: to take his finger off the button and John would
15:59
Speaker 2: hear it. But thankfully you never did. I don't know
16:02
Speaker 2: how John.
16:02
Speaker 1: Would have taken that Bo Podcasts will be back after this.
16:06
Speaker 2: Surely you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't
16:10
Speaker 2: call me surely.
16:13
Speaker 1: Stephen Lamb, author of the brand new book titled Yes
16:15
Speaker 1: nine oh one two five Rock Classics. This is part
16:18
Speaker 1: of a series which I want to ask you about too.
16:20
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that a little bit more, but getting
16:22
Speaker 1: back to the book. Some of the songs now, the
16:25
Speaker 1: opening track owner of a Lonely Heart, massive hit single worldwide. Yeah,
16:30
Speaker 1: number one in the US, twenty eight in the UK.
16:32
Speaker 1: And you write quote how the song came to be
16:34
Speaker 1: on the album at all has had some differences of
16:37
Speaker 1: interpretation over the years. So it's interesting that it was
16:40
Speaker 1: one of the last songs recorded for the album, but
16:42
Speaker 1: the song had been around for a while. Give us
16:44
Speaker 1: the most accurate story you can come up with based
16:47
Speaker 1: on your research and the interview that you've done as
16:50
Speaker 1: to how this song to be.
16:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's it's that there is some direct This
16:55
Speaker 2: is the only point at which there is some direct
16:57
Speaker 2: contradiction between two different people talking about this, because Trevor
17:03
Speaker 2: Horn has always said that how this came about was sorry,
17:09
Speaker 2: I've just been joined by Cat. So if I feel like, yeah, yeah,
17:14
Speaker 2: I talk to anybody, she always appears. This is Sofia
17:20
Speaker 2: part of the episode. Yeah, So Trevor Horn says that
17:26
Speaker 2: they were a listening session actually at Trevor Rabin's home.
17:31
Speaker 2: I think it was, Yes, it must have been Trevor
17:34
Speaker 2: Rabin's home in California. So this was this was during
17:37
Speaker 2: the rehearsal process. But of course they weren't rehearsing. Rehearsing,
17:41
Speaker 2: you know, nine till five, seven days a week. They
17:44
Speaker 2: Cay and Raven both lived in Los Angeles or the
17:47
Speaker 2: Los Angeles area, so they went home quite a lot.
17:50
Speaker 2: So they were at home, the whole band were there.
17:52
Speaker 2: They're doing a listening session to hit to listen to
17:54
Speaker 2: what albums might go, what tracks might go on the album.
17:58
Speaker 2: They play a load of songs and right at the
18:03
Speaker 2: end of the tape, owner of Lonely Heart comes on
18:06
Speaker 2: and Trevor Horne says, Wow, that's a hit. That really
18:11
Speaker 2: is a hit, and Trevor Rabin says no, no, no, no.
18:14
Speaker 2: That was never intended for Yes. That's just a song
18:15
Speaker 2: I'm trying to I was usually just trying to get
18:17
Speaker 2: a deal. Now. I think that's true up to a point. However,
18:23
Speaker 2: Trevor Rabin so just put the cat down, not in
18:27
Speaker 2: a bad way on the floor. I mean so Trevor
18:35
Speaker 2: Rabin said that he always intended that song for yes,
18:38
Speaker 2: and that and that and that It actually just they
18:40
Speaker 2: decided when they were reharsying, they decided not to rehearse
18:42
Speaker 2: that one. They decided to bring it in much later
18:44
Speaker 2: in the process. I suspect the actual truth is somewhere between.
18:48
Speaker 2: This is in there somewhere, but that's the only area
18:50
Speaker 2: where there's direct contradiction. The other slight contradiction is who
18:54
Speaker 2: wrote it or who deserves a writing credit, because there
18:58
Speaker 2: are four writing credits on that track, and obviously it's
19:01
Speaker 2: such a such a huge hit that anybody with a
19:04
Speaker 2: writing credit on that track is going to earn a lot.
19:07
Speaker 1: That's why I was gonna say, this is a big
19:08
Speaker 1: discussion gets Crez.
19:12
Speaker 2: When you listen to their demos, it's very clearly ninety
19:16
Speaker 2: it it's Trevor Abiens song. There's no doubt about that. However, However,
19:23
Speaker 2: Trevor Horn claims he rewrote some of the some of
19:27
Speaker 2: the lyrics, which he may or may not have done.
19:31
Speaker 2: Trevor Rabin says he didn't. Trevoran says he did. However,
19:35
Speaker 2: I'll come back to that. John Andsen definitely did rewrite
19:37
Speaker 2: some of the lyrics, for which he does deserve a
19:41
Speaker 2: writing credit, and Chris Squire wrote there's a little bridge section,
19:45
Speaker 2: and Chris Guy wrote that, for which he also deserves
19:48
Speaker 2: the credit. However, even if Horn didn't rewrite any of it,
19:54
Speaker 2: I think he still deserves a writing credit because his
19:56
Speaker 2: production is all over it and his arrangement. It is
20:00
Speaker 2: so astonishing, particularly listen to a lot of the detail
20:03
Speaker 2: in there, that I would say that makes him a
20:06
Speaker 2: co author as well as I'm concerned.
20:07
Speaker 1: Agreed, that's brilliant work.
20:11
Speaker 2: But having said that, you know, when you listen to
20:13
Speaker 2: the to the to the big to the fully recorded
20:17
Speaker 2: demo that they put together or that he put together,
20:20
Speaker 2: you can hear it's it's Trevor Rabin's song. It's just
20:22
Speaker 2: been real. The tone is different, but the mote that
20:27
Speaker 2: the song, some of the lyrics and most of the
20:30
Speaker 2: melodies are Trevor's definitely.
20:32
Speaker 1: And I believe that the original version or the demo
20:34
Speaker 1: version is online.
20:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can listen to this, actually you can. It's
20:39
Speaker 2: on YouTube. They also it also appeared on Trevor's album,
20:41
Speaker 2: which actually there is a type in the book. Unfortunately,
20:45
Speaker 2: Trevor Raven did an album called nine oh one two
20:47
Speaker 2: four which is a bunch of his demos, so you
20:50
Speaker 2: can hear his original demo which he supposedly wrote. He
20:53
Speaker 2: wrote on the Toilet, which is justly strumming an acoustic guitar,
20:57
Speaker 2: but you're playing the riff and singing owner of it
20:59
Speaker 2: only heard that melody. And then there's a much longer,
21:02
Speaker 2: much more professional demo that is very similar and has
21:07
Speaker 2: a lot of those fair light sort of noises in it,
21:11
Speaker 2: but played on a mini move I think. And then
21:15
Speaker 2: there's a little pre chorus in there that they cut out,
21:17
Speaker 2: very wisely cut out for the for the for the
21:20
Speaker 2: main version.
21:21
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, I'm sure many are asking, unless you're
21:24
Speaker 1: a hardcore yes fan, are you going to ask him
21:26
Speaker 1: what the meaning of nine O one two five is?
21:28
Speaker 1: We will, I will ask you that we'll get to that. Yeah,
21:31
Speaker 1: what's the connection to the Police drummer Stuart Copland on
21:34
Speaker 1: this song too. That's interesting because I'm a huge Stewart
21:37
Speaker 1: Copeland fan.
21:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure, no, he was. Trevor Horn was a
21:40
Speaker 2: big fan of Stuart Copeland's drum sound in the Police
21:45
Speaker 2: and noted that Stuart's snare was always tuned high tuned
21:49
Speaker 2: to a top a. So so what he did was
21:52
Speaker 2: he tuned Alan White snare and White snare to a
21:55
Speaker 2: top a to get get a similar sound. And there's
21:58
Speaker 2: a story, I think it's in the book where he
22:01
Speaker 2: when they go to record it, first of all, he
22:04
Speaker 2: wanted to program it, so so he programmed a drum
22:10
Speaker 2: pattern which Alan White then played over without complaint. By
22:14
Speaker 2: the sounds of it, it Alan White being when he was
22:17
Speaker 2: still with us, one of the nicest guys in rock.
22:20
Speaker 2: But when he's playing the drum part, Trevor Horn says
22:24
Speaker 2: keep saying, oh stop, no, hang on, let's take away
22:26
Speaker 2: some of the drum kit. So they keep taping taking
22:29
Speaker 2: away parts of the drum kit until all Alan's ALA's
22:32
Speaker 2: left with it with is a snare, a high hat,
22:34
Speaker 2: and and a bass drum. Although there is some you
22:37
Speaker 2: can hear some tom in the actual song as well. So,
22:42
Speaker 2: so yeah, that was the point. It was. It was
22:43
Speaker 2: because because he was a big fan of Stuart Copland's
22:46
Speaker 2: drum sound and wanted, yes, his drum sound to sound
22:49
Speaker 2: like it, or at least the drum sound and owner
22:50
Speaker 2: of a Lonely Heart.
22:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, he could definitely hear it. You can definitely hear it.
22:55
Speaker 1: And Trevor Horn's arrangement. Getting back to that, you break
22:57
Speaker 1: down the sections in the book, which is great. What
23:00
Speaker 1: are some of the standout moments for you when it
23:01
Speaker 1: comes to the production of the track, Well, I.
23:04
Speaker 2: Think the most interesting and and Trevor Horn gives again
23:07
Speaker 2: gives Alan White a lot of credit for this because
23:10
Speaker 2: the things that people really notice are all those little
23:14
Speaker 2: strange noises that which came from the fair Light, which
23:22
Speaker 2: was early eighties incredibly expensive sampling machine. In fact, I
23:27
Speaker 2: put a picture of it in the book. It's so
23:28
Speaker 2: it's so.
23:29
Speaker 1: Very popular at the time.
23:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so h Trevor Horn had access to that
23:36
Speaker 2: and Sinclavier another sampling machine but with but manufacturing in
23:42
Speaker 2: a different way. So when you hear those, some of
23:47
Speaker 2: those are played by Alan White on the fair Light.
23:50
Speaker 2: So you had you got the fair Light, Cook keyboard,
23:52
Speaker 2: and you might have an acoustic guitar on one bit,
23:55
Speaker 2: and you might have you might have the horn that's
24:00
Speaker 2: that horn noise another bit. So that was one of
24:03
Speaker 2: those strange production tricks and though it was actually played
24:07
Speaker 2: by a person Alan White, in this case, it was
24:10
Speaker 2: a strange production trick that gave the song a lot
24:14
Speaker 2: of character. The other really interesting one apart from all
24:20
Speaker 2: the detail, its huge amounts of detail. So you know,
24:22
Speaker 2: if you break down the individual tracks, you hear it's
24:25
Speaker 2: a clean guitar here, there's an overdriven guitar. There is
24:32
Speaker 2: is that there's some cow bell, isn't it. So in
24:34
Speaker 2: the opening verse it's just a straight cowboys, an actual
24:39
Speaker 2: cow bell being played by somebody. But as the song
24:42
Speaker 2: goes on, it becomes more textural. It goes down in
24:44
Speaker 2: the mix, but it starts, it starts creating a melodic pattern.
24:49
Speaker 2: So when you actually listen to it, you can hear
24:52
Speaker 2: this the cow bell which no, it's now longer, no
24:55
Speaker 2: longer just bit a percussion instrument. It's a melodic instrument.
24:59
Speaker 2: And that detail well is something that Horn would have
25:02
Speaker 2: put together with Gary Langham and their Fairlight programmer. There's
25:08
Speaker 2: no way anybody, And yes, we come up with that
25:10
Speaker 2: in a million years. That's all Trevor Horn. The detail,
25:13
Speaker 2: it's amazing. Four minutes twenty seconds, and the amount of
25:16
Speaker 2: detail in that song is what makes it. You know,
25:20
Speaker 2: this is all stuff you wouldn't really notice at your
25:23
Speaker 2: front of your line when you're listening to here on
25:25
Speaker 2: the radio, but it all goes in somewhere and it
25:28
Speaker 2: all makes the track much more distinctive. So that track
25:33
Speaker 2: is a miracle of lots, I think, different things coming
25:37
Speaker 2: together really, but it's the arrangement I think that really
25:39
Speaker 2: makes it.
25:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing. Yeah, and this song convinced Simon Ernigan to
25:43
Speaker 1: resign yes to Atlantic, which is also But John Anderson
25:47
Speaker 1: wasn't a fan, talk about what his first impression of
25:50
Speaker 1: the song was.
25:51
Speaker 2: Well, well, yeah, I mean nobody knew it was going
25:53
Speaker 2: to be a big hits. I mean, you know, Trevor
25:56
Speaker 2: Rabin thought it would be. Trevor Horn was convinced it
25:59
Speaker 2: was going to be. But and Yes said it's a
26:01
Speaker 2: pop song, you know. He said, it's not sending the
26:04
Speaker 2: clowns and so, which the implication being that that's a
26:08
Speaker 2: very sophisticated tuning up by Stephen Sondheim and the Owner
26:14
Speaker 2: of a Lonely Heart is nothing really and if you
26:17
Speaker 2: hear some of the other things that are like if
26:19
Speaker 2: you listen to I haven't put this in the book,
26:21
Speaker 2: but there's Michael Tait who is, yes, his old lighting
26:25
Speaker 2: design designer. You hear him talking about Owner of a
26:28
Speaker 2: Lonely Heart. He just says, anybody could have done that,
26:30
Speaker 2: that's not yes. And I think that's what John Ansen's
26:33
Speaker 2: attitude was at the time. Of course, you know he
26:38
Speaker 2: plays it all the time now when he does his
26:40
Speaker 2: gigs with the band gigs, he plays owner, they play
26:42
Speaker 2: Owner of a Lonely Heart. It's you know, he's forever
26:46
Speaker 2: associated with that song. But at the time he was
26:50
Speaker 2: he was unimpressed. But I don't criticize him for that really,
26:53
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's understandable. It is fundamentally a deliberately
26:59
Speaker 2: common show popsil so I.
27:01
Speaker 1: Hear what you're saying, and they look at it from
27:03
Speaker 1: a different perspective. This is similar to Van Helen's jump.
27:06
Speaker 1: David Lee Roth said he didn't want Eddie to do keyboards,
27:09
Speaker 1: not that he didn't like the song, just from an
27:12
Speaker 1: objective standpoint. Yeah, it's a great song. They're looking at
27:15
Speaker 1: it like, is this a song that should be on
27:17
Speaker 1: one of our albums? Is this a yes song? You
27:20
Speaker 1: know it? Or is it you know too? So that's
27:23
Speaker 1: the distinction between. It's not like they're listening to it
27:25
Speaker 1: and saying I don't hear anything good in this at all.
27:27
Speaker 1: It stinks. It's just they're looking at the big picture
27:30
Speaker 1: and they're trying to also, you want to, you know,
27:33
Speaker 1: maintain the yes sound. You don't want to straight too
27:35
Speaker 1: far away from it. I think that's where the point.
27:38
Speaker 2: I think the point the reason why he was complaining
27:40
Speaker 2: about it was not that he didn't think it was
27:42
Speaker 2: a worthy song, but he was being asked to sing
27:45
Speaker 2: it again. He sung it, and then they changed it
27:49
Speaker 2: and he was asked to being sing sing again, and
27:51
Speaker 2: he's sort of saying, well, why it's just a crap
27:53
Speaker 2: pop song. I've already sung it, you know. So that's
27:56
Speaker 2: I don't think he was he was saying it shouldn't
27:58
Speaker 2: be on the album. I think he was just saying,
28:00
Speaker 2: what's the point in fiddling with?
28:03
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, So he came up with all lyrics, it's
28:07
Speaker 1: all of.
28:08
Speaker 2: His no, no, no, it's the most of it is
28:11
Speaker 2: well we don't know, because it's one of those things
28:13
Speaker 2: where Trevor Horn is claiming to have written some of
28:15
Speaker 2: the lyrics, but certainly most of the lyrics are a
28:21
Speaker 2: lot of the lyrics of Trevor Rabins. Because a lot
28:22
Speaker 2: of the lyrics are in the original demo. Johns some
28:26
Speaker 2: rewrote parts of the verses. So the whole he's a
28:30
Speaker 2: good story. It's quite a well known story. But here's
28:32
Speaker 2: a good one. In the second verse he sings about
28:35
Speaker 2: the eagle in the sky. Trevor Horn didn't think that worked,
28:40
Speaker 2: didn't think it fitted with the with the rest of
28:42
Speaker 2: the lyrics. It's very it's it is a very much
28:44
Speaker 2: a John Anson is and so you can hear a little,
28:49
Speaker 2: a little gun shot in the background, and that's him
28:52
Speaker 2: and Gary Langham shooting down the eagle in the sky.
28:56
Speaker 2: But again it's a nice little it's it's a little,
28:59
Speaker 2: a little effect in the song. It just gives a song,
29:01
Speaker 2: added added character. So Johnsen rewrote some of the lyrics,
29:04
Speaker 2: and also there's some what's the best best phrase to you?
29:08
Speaker 2: Words to you? There's some vamping going on towards the
29:11
Speaker 2: end of the song where John Andsen does a little
29:14
Speaker 2: it's almost semi wrapped, and that's clearly Johnsen, and it's
29:19
Speaker 2: kind of just it sounds like stuff. It just came
29:21
Speaker 2: into his head at the time. In fact, it's contradictory,
29:24
Speaker 2: So I'd say in the book that it's one at
29:28
Speaker 2: one point one line contradictsy at the following line, because
29:32
Speaker 2: the whole song is essentially about it's a very but
29:38
Speaker 2: you know, it's a basic sentiment. It's basically about being
29:41
Speaker 2: frightened to take a to take a leap into a
29:43
Speaker 2: into love, and John's twist in it is that no, no,
29:49
Speaker 2: really take that leap, whereas Raven's lyrics are more about
29:54
Speaker 2: the fear of that. John's trying to be more positive,
29:58
Speaker 2: but he's sort of saying, look before you leave and
30:00
Speaker 2: then jump in. But you're what you can do, all
30:04
Speaker 2: what you can do on all the other you can't
30:05
Speaker 2: do both really, So anyway.
30:08
Speaker 1: Wow track two hold, oh, I love it. No. It's
30:12
Speaker 1: like a push and pull between the two sides lyrically,
30:14
Speaker 1: which yet, yeah, I don't know how many people even
30:17
Speaker 1: notice their care because obviously the song is such a
30:20
Speaker 1: huge it's just we'll just hither.
30:24
Speaker 2: The words owner of it. Only hearts are sung nineteen times.
30:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what people are hearing, right. Yeah. Second track
30:31
Speaker 1: is hold On, number forty three on the US Rock charts,
30:34
Speaker 1: and one that you note would please the diehard guest
30:37
Speaker 1: fans who may have been let down by the poppy
30:40
Speaker 1: lead track. And you did mention that the track listing
30:43
Speaker 1: is perfect in euro opinion. Track three one of my
30:46
Speaker 1: favorite Yes songs. It Can Happen, reach ninety two in
30:49
Speaker 1: the UK, fifty one in the US, number five on
30:51
Speaker 1: the rock charts. So you write about John Anderson's contributions here,
30:54
Speaker 1: you say it lifted a decent song up a couple
30:57
Speaker 1: of notches from the original cinema version. Talk about that.
31:01
Speaker 2: It can Yeah, well that's the one song where we
31:03
Speaker 2: can hear both versions. So and there's in fact, there's
31:07
Speaker 2: several versions. There's one officially released version, which is what
31:11
Speaker 2: I refer to in the book, so you can hear
31:14
Speaker 2: that the Cinema version is on there's a Yes box
31:18
Speaker 2: set that came out in nineteen ninety one and that's
31:21
Speaker 2: Yes Years and it's on that, so you can hear.
31:24
Speaker 2: It's a Chris Guire song essentially with little bits there'tle
31:27
Speaker 2: added bits from Trevor Rabin and Chris Guire came up
31:33
Speaker 2: was the main lead vocalist on that in the cinema version,
31:37
Speaker 2: So the main chorus stays the same, it's a strong chorus,
31:42
Speaker 2: but the verses are very different. The Chris Guire version
31:47
Speaker 2: is It's fine, but the version that ends up on
31:50
Speaker 2: the album, which strikes me as being a mixture of
31:54
Speaker 2: John Andson's embellishments and some Trevor Horn production tricks. That
32:02
Speaker 2: makes that track again, that's one of the tracks that
32:05
Speaker 2: really benefits from from the addition of John Andsen. But
32:09
Speaker 2: if you listen to the chorus, the chorus is essentially
32:13
Speaker 2: chrisquare see him with Trevor Raven So that's an area
32:16
Speaker 2: where they haven't really changed it at all. It's the
32:18
Speaker 2: verses that Johnsen.
32:20
Speaker 1: And what is the spoken words section during Trevor Ravens
32:22
Speaker 1: solo really hard to make out.
32:25
Speaker 2: Yes, and to be honest, there will be some I
32:29
Speaker 2: don't know why that's there. I did try, and I
32:32
Speaker 2: know what it is, but I don't know why it
32:34
Speaker 2: was placed there. I didn't get the chance to ask
32:36
Speaker 2: anybody about it. It's but it's from it's from spoken
32:41
Speaker 2: word from the play. The importance of being earnest by
32:43
Speaker 2: Oscar Wild but I don't know what is relevant.
32:46
Speaker 1: Is very low in the mix.
32:49
Speaker 2: Yeah it is, and actually, if you that's I do
32:54
Speaker 2: say this in But one of the interesting things is
32:55
Speaker 2: that I think the single mix of that track is better.
32:59
Speaker 2: I think there's some stuff in that song. It's about
33:02
Speaker 2: a minute in that song that you could easily lose
33:04
Speaker 2: without without song being any worse. So when you hear
33:07
Speaker 2: the single mix, that bit is missing. And then there's
33:10
Speaker 2: an extended instrumental section in the middle. So there's a
33:14
Speaker 2: solo from Raven in there as well, and that's still
33:16
Speaker 2: in them the single mix, but the kind of extended
33:19
Speaker 2: vocals instrumental section with that bit of with that sort
33:24
Speaker 2: of bit from your school wild play is gone from
33:28
Speaker 2: the single mix, and I think it's better. Personally, I
33:30
Speaker 2: don't always think single mixes better, but I think that's
33:33
Speaker 2: I think it is in that case.
33:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, more often than now. The single mixes, Yeah, they
33:36
Speaker 1: take out too much. But the next track, now, this
33:39
Speaker 1: is one you say, I believe you say. It's in
33:41
Speaker 1: your top ten overall Yes songs changes, Yeah, yeah, number
33:45
Speaker 1: six US rock radio track tell us about this one.
33:47
Speaker 1: The lyrics about Geffen Records.
33:50
Speaker 2: Well, yes, it's it's it's an interesting song because it's firstly,
33:55
Speaker 2: I think it's still think it's brilliant. I think, you know,
33:58
Speaker 2: I think the band realize that it is really good
34:01
Speaker 2: as well, because it's whenever there's been whenever Arabian's been
34:04
Speaker 2: in the band, whichever tour or and some Rabian weightman
34:08
Speaker 2: the thing they did much later, that track is always
34:11
Speaker 2: that song's always been played, and it is I suppose
34:15
Speaker 2: it's the closest to a classic. Yes, maybe with Hearts
34:19
Speaker 2: I did, I suppose. But so that song was one
34:23
Speaker 2: of the ones that Rabin demoed in Los Angeles in
34:27
Speaker 2: eighty one when he was trying to get a deal.
34:29
Speaker 2: So the basic song, the chorus and the verses Rabien wrote.
34:37
Speaker 2: Then then it went into the cinema rehearsal period where
34:41
Speaker 2: where all the embellishments ended up happening. So you've got
34:44
Speaker 2: so you've got the the percussion bit, do do do
34:47
Speaker 2: do do do that bit, so it it then gets
34:51
Speaker 2: all the yes embellishments and then much later, sorry, all
34:55
Speaker 2: the cinema embellishments. So it's on the album definitely, and
34:58
Speaker 2: then right at the end you've got little touches from
35:02
Speaker 2: John Andersen that which again just lifted another little notch
35:05
Speaker 2: to make it even better. The one word from You,
35:07
Speaker 2: one word from Me section, which provides a little bit
35:11
Speaker 2: of tension before they go into the final chorus. The
35:14
Speaker 2: other really good thing about that song, and one of
35:16
Speaker 2: the really good things about the album that people forget.
35:19
Speaker 2: People often talk about how well John Anderson's voice works
35:23
Speaker 2: with Chris Squire's voice, but actually you don't hear it
35:26
Speaker 2: that much on record. It's more when they play live
35:31
Speaker 2: that they work so well because they are the two
35:32
Speaker 2: main vocalists in the band. So and when they sing
35:38
Speaker 2: the chorus there it's Amazon and Squire singing harmony and
35:41
Speaker 2: it's fantastic. And that's There's a few other occasions on
35:46
Speaker 2: the album where that where they do that as well,
35:48
Speaker 2: way more than in the other album. I think, yes,
35:51
Speaker 2: fans tend to forget that. There's way less of that
35:55
Speaker 2: on the seventies albums, I think, so overall, with all
36:00
Speaker 2: those little bits, it gets quite you know, it's fairly proggy.
36:04
Speaker 2: Alan Alan White wrote that percussion section, it's and you know,
36:09
Speaker 2: it's perfectly placed. It closes side one of the album.
36:13
Speaker 1: I was about to say, a hell of a Side
36:15
Speaker 1: one too, Owner of a Lonely Heart, hold on it
36:17
Speaker 1: can happen changes those are the four Yeah. Now, Side
36:20
Speaker 1: too is interesting because you got some deep tracks here
36:22
Speaker 1: and it opens with Cinema, which initially was to be
36:27
Speaker 1: the opening section of a twenty minute piece titled Time.
36:30
Speaker 1: What happened to that twenty minute piece?
36:33
Speaker 2: Well, I think Trevor Rapien told me that he thought
36:36
Speaker 2: they thought it was fairly successful, but it didn't really
36:38
Speaker 2: and they actually tried to start recording it. So there
36:42
Speaker 2: will be a demo of it somewhere, but it's never
36:44
Speaker 2: seen The Night of Day. Some people have heard it.
36:46
Speaker 2: I've spoken to people that have heard it who have suggested, yeah,
36:50
Speaker 2: it's okay, but it's not a classic or anything. So
36:54
Speaker 2: they did record it, but they recorded it essentially as
36:56
Speaker 2: a sort of working demo really, and to be honest,
37:06
Speaker 2: I couldn't I can't really see it, you know, I
37:08
Speaker 2: couldn't really see it on the album. It would have
37:10
Speaker 2: taken up a whole side. So and though yes, I've
37:14
Speaker 2: done that plenty of times in the past, I can't
37:15
Speaker 2: see yes in the eighties doing that.
37:18
Speaker 1: But a lot of times instrumentals open an album and
37:20
Speaker 1: open side too. Here, going back to the statement you
37:23
Speaker 1: had made about this is the perfect track listing the
37:26
Speaker 1: way things were ordered, talk about that. Why do you
37:29
Speaker 1: feel that way it's just balanced out perfectly?
37:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think, I think, I think, you know,
37:34
Speaker 2: I think it's deliberately sequenced to do something and it
37:39
Speaker 2: and it hits you hard with the with the big
37:41
Speaker 2: hit single straight out the box. So the first thing
37:45
Speaker 2: you hear is his own a Lonely Heart. So but
37:49
Speaker 2: of course, you know, nine one five was the last
37:52
Speaker 2: album by Yes that wasn't released on CD at the
37:56
Speaker 2: same time as it was released on vinyl, so to
37:59
Speaker 2: buy it in nineteen eighty three, you had to buy
38:01
Speaker 2: it on vinyl. That wasn't the case with Big Generator
38:05
Speaker 2: there were it was really simultaneously on CD and vinyl
38:08
Speaker 2: with different covers actually, but that wasn't the case with
38:12
Speaker 2: nine oh one two five. So so side one they
38:16
Speaker 2: hit you with owner with Lonely Heart, Side too, straight
38:18
Speaker 2: in with within with the instrumental. So you know, I
38:22
Speaker 2: get it, really, I get that that works. You know,
38:26
Speaker 2: they're not I know Toto opened their first album with
38:30
Speaker 2: Child's Anthem, and that really really works. But you know,
38:34
Speaker 2: some people do that, don't do things differently, and so
38:36
Speaker 2: I think it really works opening side too. I think
38:39
Speaker 2: it also works as a kind of lead in to
38:42
Speaker 2: lead it to leave it as well.
38:44
Speaker 1: So which is my favorite from this album. And when
38:49
Speaker 1: I was in college and college radio station, somebody put
38:52
Speaker 1: it on a cart which is like an eight track.
38:56
Speaker 1: I used to play it through in my shift and
38:58
Speaker 1: it brought me back to when I first heard it.
39:00
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard it in a long time at that time,
39:02
Speaker 1: and I just I just couldn't get enough of the
39:06
Speaker 1: just the vocal, the harmonies and everything it was produced.
39:09
Speaker 1: Just a brilliant track. Again when you talk about the production,
39:13
Speaker 1: it did reach number twenty four here in the US,
39:16
Speaker 1: number fifty six in the UK. But the layered vocals,
39:19
Speaker 1: so what we're hearing there not enhanced, and they're all recorded.
39:23
Speaker 2: Scratch, absolutely, and that's again I spoke to Trevor Rabin
39:28
Speaker 2: about this, particularly when we were talking about his recent
39:30
Speaker 2: set of album Rio. He still does it like that,
39:34
Speaker 2: So it's not enhance. What you're hearing is this layered
39:37
Speaker 2: off layer of the layer of the layered vocals. So
39:41
Speaker 2: they recorded them all. It took weeks. It's it's like that.
39:46
Speaker 1: So how many tracks did they use? It was this
39:50
Speaker 1: eight track?
39:51
Speaker 2: Do they know it's late than that? I think it was.
39:54
Speaker 2: I think, And I can't what they were using to
39:57
Speaker 2: recall because it do dip it in. What's it's recorded
40:00
Speaker 2: sixteen track with sixteen track linked up with the twenty
40:03
Speaker 2: four track. There was the eighties. It was beyond date
40:07
Speaker 2: track people using sixteen tracks or twenty four and they.
40:11
Speaker 1: Made the most use of those tracks.
40:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know you can you can do that.
40:15
Speaker 2: You just bounce things down to the two individual tracks.
40:19
Speaker 2: So it's yeah. So that's the other interesting about that
40:23
Speaker 2: is that there's a few really interesting things about that.
40:27
Speaker 2: That song, it's the it's one of the only songs
40:30
Speaker 2: that doesn't have a writing credit for John Anson. He's
40:35
Speaker 2: on it, obviously, he sings the second verse, but he's
40:37
Speaker 2: singing Raven's lyrics.
40:39
Speaker 1: Squire, Raven and Horn. Those are the three.
40:42
Speaker 2: So I'm presuming that Horn's writing credit comes because he
40:47
Speaker 2: was because because of the intricacy of the of the arrangement.
40:49
Speaker 2: I could be wrong about that. I don't know then
40:51
Speaker 2: the precisely what is what what his involvement in that
40:53
Speaker 2: was but it's but it was, it was pulled together.
40:56
Speaker 2: It was I think Raven wrote most of it and
40:59
Speaker 2: Squire the doom Doom that that sort of that that
41:04
Speaker 2: sort of riff.
41:07
Speaker 1: Uh.
41:09
Speaker 2: The other really interesting thing about that song, aside from
41:12
Speaker 2: the song itself, is the video which people know. People
41:18
Speaker 2: if you've seen, like if you like the song online,
41:22
Speaker 2: it's one of those interesting songs you see a lot
41:24
Speaker 2: of people you know that you get all these reaction
41:26
Speaker 2: videos and you see a lot of reaction videos to
41:29
Speaker 2: leave It. It's just one of those songs that because
41:31
Speaker 2: it's so unusual, but because yes it's spent. Had done
41:38
Speaker 2: this massive, massive video for Own River Lonely Heart, which
41:42
Speaker 2: must have gost an absolute fortune to put together, particularly
41:45
Speaker 2: as it was put together by Storm Thorgerson and Aubrey
41:50
Speaker 2: Powell of who were Hypnosis and that were at that
41:54
Speaker 2: point were Green Green Back Films. They had decided to
42:00
Speaker 2: do something a bit more modest for the leave It video.
42:02
Speaker 2: So you'll have seen the video, which is kind of
42:04
Speaker 2: it's very eighties. It's there's the band all in gray
42:08
Speaker 2: suits upside down, and then there's some video effects where
42:11
Speaker 2: it's goind of spins round as they mimed the song. Well,
42:15
Speaker 2: what they decided to do is they decided to want
42:16
Speaker 2: to get Lol Cream and Kevin Godley to to make
42:21
Speaker 2: the video, and they put Yes into a studio in
42:25
Speaker 2: New York for one day and they just recorded lots
42:28
Speaker 2: and lots of different versions of the of the of
42:31
Speaker 2: them performing, what not performing it just miming to the
42:35
Speaker 2: to the track, all in these gray suits, but with
42:38
Speaker 2: little subtle variations. So for instance that one of the
42:41
Speaker 2: variations is there's just John Anderson's down in there, everywhere
42:45
Speaker 2: else is gone. One of the variations is it's exactly
42:47
Speaker 2: the same, but Tony Kay is wearing a pink tie.
42:51
Speaker 2: One of the variations is there's just the instruments there
42:53
Speaker 2: and and not the rest of the band. And one
42:56
Speaker 2: of the variations is the band have all been replaced
42:58
Speaker 2: by other people. And then they mixed them all up
43:03
Speaker 2: together and then they put them out on MTV over
43:04
Speaker 2: the course of a course of about two weeks, one
43:09
Speaker 2: a day, and then they played them all on April
43:12
Speaker 2: the first, nineteen eighty four.
43:14
Speaker 1: They talk about those videos taking a long time, and
43:18
Speaker 1: it was not exactly the funnest experience for the band
43:22
Speaker 1: because it was just this whole just this whole day
43:24
Speaker 1: of just filming and refilming. I can imagine, Yeah, oh
43:28
Speaker 1: my god, we're going to do this one more time.
43:30
Speaker 2: Well yeah, the idea originally what they wanted was that
43:33
Speaker 2: not only were they going to be standing there in
43:35
Speaker 2: gray suits, which were meant to be as dull as possible,
43:39
Speaker 2: but they wanted them all to be literally suspended upside
43:42
Speaker 2: down for the whole day. They decided not to do it,
43:46
Speaker 2: not because because it would have been inconvenient for the
43:48
Speaker 2: whole band, but because Trevor Rapn had just had his
43:50
Speaker 2: spleen removed.
43:52
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the video now. Their heads are detached
43:57
Speaker 1: from their bodies and they're gone in a Yeah.
44:01
Speaker 2: But that's the verse. That's version eleven.
44:02
Speaker 1: That's the one with eleven.
44:04
Speaker 2: That's version eleven. So there were there were about eighteen
44:06
Speaker 2: different versions, and so they shot eighteen different versions, and
44:09
Speaker 2: they had really bizarre names, kind of python esque. Obviously,
44:13
Speaker 2: Cold Cream, Lord Cream and Kevin Godley are quite dry,
44:18
Speaker 2: funny English guys from Manchester, and so they had they
44:25
Speaker 2: if I can find it now, I've got the book here. Yeah.
44:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, while you're looking up, I'm gonna enjoy this video.
44:33
Speaker 2: I found it. So version three is called Tribute to
44:36
Speaker 2: Jeremy Okay. Version four is called Endless Infatuation. Version five
44:43
Speaker 2: is just called four. Version ten is called Lords of
44:48
Speaker 2: the Galaxy. Version eight is called Surgeon's Dilemba. And so
44:54
Speaker 2: it was all very It was almost like a combination
44:57
Speaker 2: of an actual video recording in some form of slightly
45:00
Speaker 2: bizarre performance art. And the best one is right at
45:05
Speaker 2: the end of the day, they asked the band to
45:07
Speaker 2: record the two minds of the track with their backs
45:11
Speaker 2: turns to the camera. So there's a guy from MTV
45:14
Speaker 2: film filming, which you can you can see the MTV
45:17
Speaker 2: documentary online. It's really entertaining there. It's bad quality, so
45:21
Speaker 2: it's hard to see all the names on the on
45:24
Speaker 2: the on their sort of on their storyboard thing they had,
45:28
Speaker 2: but so so you can see them all with their
45:31
Speaker 2: backs to the camera, and the MTV guy just sneaks
45:34
Speaker 2: to the side and you can hear you can see
45:35
Speaker 2: them all sort of giggling as they attempt to mind
45:38
Speaker 2: to it during the course of the of that version
45:42
Speaker 2: of the song, and Godly and Cream usher the entire
45:44
Speaker 2: crew after the studio. So when the guys turn around,
45:49
Speaker 2: there's nobody in there that everybody's gone, and you can
45:52
Speaker 2: just hear the band that's unfortunately the band take it
45:54
Speaker 2: in reasonably good heart. You can see you can hear
45:57
Speaker 2: someone say I knew it. Best comment and the best
46:01
Speaker 2: comment is by just by John Andton right at the end.
46:03
Speaker 2: He just says, beautiful. But it's a great it's it's,
46:12
Speaker 2: it's it's it's a great song, and it's a very
46:16
Speaker 2: very unusual arrangement. So it's that's why it stands out.
46:19
Speaker 2: It's what that one as long as with I guess
46:23
Speaker 2: with Owner of an Lonely Heart of course, which has
46:25
Speaker 2: had a whole life of its own, and some of
46:28
Speaker 2: the better known songs that the band loved to play,
46:30
Speaker 2: like whole, like hold On and changes, that's the one
46:33
Speaker 2: that's had the longest life, just because it's such an
46:37
Speaker 2: unusual sounding song.
46:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I always love the singles that were somewhat
46:43
Speaker 1: hit singles because then they gotta get they get forgotten
46:47
Speaker 1: over time. And I love to just go back and
46:49
Speaker 1: and and listening because you remember when you heard it,
46:54
Speaker 1: but you hadn't heard it in a while, so it's
46:56
Speaker 1: just like, this is this really cool moment of like
46:59
Speaker 1: oh my God, I remember that one, you know. Whereas
47:01
Speaker 1: with the Owner of the Lonely Heart, sometimes you got
47:03
Speaker 1: to step away from it for a while and listen
47:05
Speaker 1: to it again because there's a burnout factor. But with
47:07
Speaker 1: songs like leave It, I always love listening to it.
47:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, And there isn't a I still play
47:16
Speaker 2: the album a lot. Obviously, I played it an awful
47:18
Speaker 2: lot recently, but I still play still play the album
47:21
Speaker 2: from time to time, and I don't miss anything. Don't
47:23
Speaker 2: miss the track.
47:24
Speaker 1: Down Rock podcast. We'll be back after this.
47:29
Speaker 2: Leave Down.
47:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and then it finishes out with three songs.
47:35
Speaker 1: We have our song City of Love and Hearts. So
47:38
Speaker 1: that's the side to the album finishes out with those
47:41
Speaker 1: three City of Love. I think would have made for
47:44
Speaker 1: a great rock radio single. Talk about the true story
47:47
Speaker 1: behind the lyrics, which were mostly written by Trevor Raven,
47:50
Speaker 1: I think.
47:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, and put his own spin on it later. So
47:56
Speaker 2: I think John Anderson makes. One of the things that
47:58
Speaker 2: John Andsen does very well of the album is he
48:00
Speaker 2: kind of widens out the lyrics. Raven's lyrics are very
48:04
Speaker 2: much either Vignette's little stories or just he's expressing a
48:10
Speaker 2: fairly basic emotion, like on Owner of a Lonely Heart.
48:13
Speaker 2: I don't want to take a leap into falling in
48:16
Speaker 2: love with somebody in case I get hurt. City of Love.
48:19
Speaker 2: The story behind it is that when he was going
48:23
Speaker 2: through the turmoil of losing his development deal with Geffen
48:28
Speaker 2: that we haven't talked about, but that's kind of what happened,
48:30
Speaker 2: what led him into that joining cinema, he was offered
48:35
Speaker 2: offered a position to be keyboard player and foreigner for
48:39
Speaker 2: at all. So he went for a rehearsal in New
48:42
Speaker 2: York with foreigner. He got taken to the wrong place,
48:46
Speaker 2: kind of in Harlem, somewhere right in the north of Manhattan,
48:51
Speaker 2: and he was and he found himself deposited by this
48:57
Speaker 2: taxi driver in a place full of pimps and drug
49:00
Speaker 2: dealing and stuff. And so the story represents his kind
49:04
Speaker 2: of impression of that, of of what he felt when
49:08
Speaker 2: he was there, and he's kind of extrapolated that into
49:11
Speaker 2: a sort of a vignette about, uh, the love in
49:15
Speaker 2: this case is carnival love. It's not it's not romantic love.
49:19
Speaker 2: It's gonna it's it's a little bit grittier. And then
49:22
Speaker 2: Jod Andsen has just just widened it a little bit
49:25
Speaker 2: into sort of a slightly more general story in in
49:30
Speaker 2: sothern of his lyrics. So but also that led to
49:34
Speaker 2: Trevor coming up with quite a very very very basic lyric.
49:38
Speaker 2: So sorry, very very basic riff that really works. That's
49:43
Speaker 2: that's that's that's the right. And he wanted to keep
49:46
Speaker 2: it basic because it sort of it fitted in with
49:48
Speaker 2: the sort of the slightly menacing vibe he went he
49:52
Speaker 2: wanted to go for.
49:54
Speaker 1: So now let's get to the story behind the album title,
49:57
Speaker 1: which is really interesting. That was initially titled eighth one
50:01
Speaker 1: oh two. What was the significance of that number and
50:04
Speaker 1: why changed to nine oh one two five and what
50:07
Speaker 1: does that mean?
50:10
Speaker 2: So, so, yes, I've been using kind of computery stuff,
50:13
Speaker 2: not in the same way that the Talk album was recorded,
50:15
Speaker 2: but they were they were going for a very modern
50:18
Speaker 2: vibe with the album. This is a modern, yes, with
50:21
Speaker 2: brand new So they wanted to go with something that
50:24
Speaker 2: sounded very early eighties and very modern. So someone said,
50:29
Speaker 2: let's just use the catalog number, and the catalog number
50:33
Speaker 2: that was planned for the album was eight O one
50:35
Speaker 2: O two. I think Phil Caston actually said nine oh
50:37
Speaker 2: one O two, But I think it's eight O one
50:39
Speaker 2: o two because Gary Mouat, who's the who designed the cover,
50:43
Speaker 2: the computer generated cover, said that it was. I said
50:46
Speaker 2: it was a one o two.
50:47
Speaker 1: Could you explain what is a catalog number? For those
50:49
Speaker 1: who were well.
50:50
Speaker 2: If when you look at any if if you look
50:52
Speaker 2: at if you look at any album, it will have
50:56
Speaker 2: see if I can find we're not random. Yeah, I'd
51:00
Speaker 2: talked by Yes, every every album has a has something
51:03
Speaker 2: on its spine that's differential differentiated out for anything else.
51:08
Speaker 2: So with a book, a catalog number would be and
51:10
Speaker 2: it would be its ISBN and which is a thirteen
51:14
Speaker 2: digit number that separates one book out from another one.
51:17
Speaker 2: So it was going to have a catalog number. It
51:20
Speaker 2: was it was the number that people were going to
51:22
Speaker 2: use to differentiated out from other Atlantic recordings. So it
51:28
Speaker 2: was going to be eight O one oh two. So
51:29
Speaker 2: they said, well, let's call it eight O one o two.
51:32
Speaker 2: But when Phil Carson then looked into it, he realized
51:34
Speaker 2: that that the that the number eight oh one o
51:37
Speaker 2: two wasn't available in all territories. So it was going
51:41
Speaker 2: to be a jazz album in Brazil or something like that.
51:44
Speaker 2: So let's find one that's available in all territories. Okay,
51:47
Speaker 2: the next one is nine oh one two five, and
51:50
Speaker 2: of course the band said, oh, that's not such a
51:51
Speaker 2: good number, to which Phil Carson said, it's just a number.
51:57
Speaker 2: They're all the same. So literally, it is just the number.
52:01
Speaker 2: It's just the number that that differentiated the album from
52:04
Speaker 2: from from other albums made by at CO around about
52:08
Speaker 2: that time.
52:08
Speaker 1: It's great that that's just it's simply that it's just
52:11
Speaker 1: a number to that. But people can look into it
52:15
Speaker 1: and oh there's some secret meeting behind that. What is that?
52:17
Speaker 3: There is?
52:20
Speaker 2: It was and I catch a lot of number was chosen.
52:22
Speaker 2: Then they had to change it to another one, and
52:25
Speaker 2: that's that is it. It's quite I mean, it's not dull,
52:30
Speaker 2: but it's it's a bit procedural. Really, there's no there
52:34
Speaker 2: is no message behind it.
52:35
Speaker 1: No message behind that.
52:37
Speaker 2: I know, one two five. He won't suddenly summon the devil.
52:39
Speaker 1: I was gonna say yes, or there's no wizard vas
52:42
Speaker 1: dark side of the Moon thing going on there. There's nothing,
52:45
Speaker 1: nothing behind it. And a traditional Roger Dean cover was
52:48
Speaker 1: not the case here. He was the one that would
52:51
Speaker 1: do the do the artwork you talk about he did
52:54
Speaker 1: the artwork previously, but who does the artwork on this one?
52:56
Speaker 1: And the interesting story behind the gray why that's wrapped up?
53:00
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, So who is a British computer artist,
53:07
Speaker 2: so he was working with computer art even in the
53:09
Speaker 2: even in the early eighties. He'd worked with Trevor Horn
53:11
Speaker 2: before and so they thought, well, we were something really
53:15
Speaker 2: modern looking. So well, so I don't think Trevor I
53:18
Speaker 2: don't think Roger Deine was really even considered because he
53:24
Speaker 2: started designing the album the album cover before the band
53:29
Speaker 2: changed his name to Yes from Cinema. So when he
53:31
Speaker 2: did his first draft for the album cover, the why
53:34
Speaker 2: that you can see. So if you look at the
53:37
Speaker 2: album I will hold up the book again for people
53:39
Speaker 2: watching this on video. So if you look at the
53:41
Speaker 2: look at the album cover, it's the the catalog number
53:47
Speaker 2: is couched in a sort of what is a slightly
53:50
Speaker 2: rotund why. And originally when he designed it, that roadtund
53:54
Speaker 2: why was actually he was on his side and was
53:56
Speaker 2: a c because it was going to be the sea
53:59
Speaker 2: for Cinema. So the extra colors you can see in
54:01
Speaker 2: there were going to would have been would have been
54:04
Speaker 2: would have been around to see everything would have been
54:05
Speaker 2: flipped on its side.
54:08
Speaker 1: Interesting story.
54:09
Speaker 2: So I don't think the other thing is I mean,
54:11
Speaker 2: I'm not sure to put this in the book, but
54:13
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised they didn't use Roger Dean.
54:14
Speaker 1: Roger's gonna ask you why why didn't they go with Roger.
54:17
Speaker 2: Well, because it was it would have been seen as
54:19
Speaker 2: as linking back to the seventies. But also Roger Dean
54:22
Speaker 2: in particular is he was very friendly with Steve Howe.
54:27
Speaker 2: I think they didn't. Don't think they they didn't use it.
54:29
Speaker 2: I don't think they. And also Roger Dean was doing
54:31
Speaker 2: the Asia albums, so they want to say, well, let's
54:34
Speaker 2: not look like if you if you remember the first
54:36
Speaker 2: Asia album that's got Roger Deane cover, it's not like
54:40
Speaker 2: the Yes albums. It's a very different style of Roger
54:42
Speaker 2: Deane cover, but it is a Roger Deane cover. So
54:45
Speaker 2: they didn't want to be seen to be copying Asia.
54:48
Speaker 2: So I don't think that Roger Deane has ever really
54:50
Speaker 2: seriously considered for the for the cover design. They're always
54:53
Speaker 2: gonna do something a bit different.
54:56
Speaker 1: So Yes, nine one, two, five Rock Classics it's out now.
55:00
Speaker 1: This is just these are just a few of the things.
55:03
Speaker 1: There's a lot more in this book. I mean, you
55:04
Speaker 1: break it down, and this is a complex story when
55:06
Speaker 1: you go from start to finish. Here as to how
55:08
Speaker 1: the album comes to be, and we mentioned it earlier,
55:12
Speaker 1: the fact that yes, it was pretty much done, and
55:15
Speaker 1: how they are revived, it's just it's a great story.
55:18
Speaker 1: It's a it's a comeback story for the band, yes,
55:20
Speaker 1: you know, and then they did Fire with the Generator
55:22
Speaker 1: was four years later, right in eineteen eighty seven.
55:26
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it was. And the thing about nine point
55:30
Speaker 2: oneenty five is that the whole process is it. I
55:32
Speaker 2: cannot think of an album where the whole process is
55:35
Speaker 2: as contrived as this. It goes through these different stages,
55:40
Speaker 2: and it almost in a way it has all of
55:42
Speaker 2: these different stages. It could have fallen apart at any time.
55:45
Speaker 2: So if you think it's demoed by Trevor Rabin and
55:48
Speaker 2: to a lesser extent, Chris Quarren Allen White, then they
55:51
Speaker 2: rehearse it in London, then they record the album as
55:55
Speaker 2: Cinema without John Athanson, and then they add John Anderson
55:58
Speaker 2: at the end. Only one of those things could have
56:01
Speaker 2: gone very very badly, and the fact that everything they
56:05
Speaker 2: did in the end ended up making it better is astonishing.
56:09
Speaker 2: I cannot think of an album that's quite like it.
56:11
Speaker 2: You know, you know what happens with most bands, as
56:13
Speaker 2: I say in the book, even if they are coming
56:17
Speaker 2: off a hiatus or something, They record an album. They
56:21
Speaker 2: record that, that someone writes the songs, they record the album,
56:24
Speaker 2: they go on the road, then they go back and
56:26
Speaker 2: record the next album, and that's this is This album
56:29
Speaker 2: is recorded in a much much more complex way than that.
56:32
Speaker 2: So the fact that it's as good as it is
56:36
Speaker 2: is remarkable. Really.
56:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, Big Generator nineteen eighty seven, leve will Find a Way,
56:41
Speaker 1: Rhythm of Love. That's another interesting album. But how did
56:45
Speaker 1: these songs from nine to oh one two five translate
56:48
Speaker 1: on the road? Did you see that? But you saw
56:50
Speaker 1: the band during this tour, right yeah, yeah, I thought, yeah,
56:52
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of production on these songs, how
56:55
Speaker 1: were they able.
56:55
Speaker 2: To well, actually, it's another quite interesting sorry. So they
57:00
Speaker 2: played at the breast stages of the tour, they played
57:03
Speaker 2: the whole album Our song, which we haven't really talked about.
57:06
Speaker 2: But this song I really like was dropped for a
57:10
Speaker 2: lot of the tour, but still played thirty odd times
57:13
Speaker 2: on the tour. The rest of the songs fitted into
57:16
Speaker 2: the into the into the tour, alongside some older material
57:20
Speaker 2: which Trevor Raben used to had to get used to playing,
57:23
Speaker 2: of course, And what they did was they needed to
57:30
Speaker 2: enhance some of this stuff. So this is so, this
57:34
Speaker 2: is this is is not the first incidence of Yes
57:37
Speaker 2: doing this. But they hired a second keyboard player, a
57:43
Speaker 2: guy called Casey Young who played from underneath the stage. Uh.
57:48
Speaker 2: And initially he was just providing enhancements to some of
57:53
Speaker 2: the vocals. So if you hear the vocals to changes
57:58
Speaker 2: or hold on, for instance, a lot of the backing vocals,
58:02
Speaker 2: you can hear that they're enhanced. So they were hanced
58:05
Speaker 2: on stage, so you might get John Anison Chris Squire
58:07
Speaker 2: singing together. But also there'll be parts where you can
58:10
Speaker 2: hear a lot more voices by that than that, and
58:12
Speaker 2: that's been enhanced by somebody standing still playing it, but
58:16
Speaker 2: by somebody below the stage. So when they did the
58:23
Speaker 2: second phase of the tour, they enhanced things even more so. Actually,
58:27
Speaker 2: I think Casey that Young talks about going to see
58:30
Speaker 2: Trevor Horn at his studio and get bringing in some
58:32
Speaker 2: more samples, like he said that they could they could
58:35
Speaker 2: do even more accurate versions of the songs on the road,
58:39
Speaker 2: and Casey Young gets gradually gets given more stuff to
58:42
Speaker 2: do as well. So Tony Tony Kay is understandably a
58:47
Speaker 2: little bit wary if you talk to him about it,
58:49
Speaker 2: because obviously Tony Kay, well, Tony Kay plays on the album,
58:54
Speaker 2: got fired by Trevor Horn, was asked to come back
58:57
Speaker 2: to do the tour. Did the tour, and unfortunately, pro
59:02
Speaker 2: Tony suffered from this because people know that there was
59:05
Speaker 2: the second keyboard player that was playing from below the stage.
59:09
Speaker 2: Some people have extrapolated from that that Tony k was
59:12
Speaker 2: not playing at all, that he's mining all his parts,
59:14
Speaker 2: he's just there because he was the next member of Yes,
59:16
Speaker 2: which is completely not true. I mean, whenever you see
59:18
Speaker 2: any of the footage, it's very clear that he's playing.
59:21
Speaker 2: That he's playing. It's a ludicrous we even suggested it
59:27
Speaker 2: is a ludicrous idea, but that's one of those conspiracy
59:30
Speaker 2: theories that's built up over time, that's been a and
59:32
Speaker 2: he's very wary of that. So if you talk to
59:35
Speaker 2: him about Casey Young, he just says, what he was
59:36
Speaker 2: just my keyboard tech.
59:39
Speaker 1: He's had to answer their question. I'm sure people have asked, yeah, yeah,
59:44
Speaker 1: well well yes, nine on one two five. It's one
59:49
Speaker 1: of those albums that goes down in rock history among
59:52
Speaker 1: the best, one of my favorites. And this book is
59:56
Speaker 1: is all you'll ever need to find out about this album.
59:58
Speaker 1: It's out now, Yes Night and I want you five
1:00:01
Speaker 1: Rock Classics and you can find it wherever books are sold.
1:00:03
Speaker 1: Now talk about where people can find you, Stephen. Also
1:00:08
Speaker 1: the Rock Classics series. Anything else you want to you know,
1:00:10
Speaker 1: get out there under the sign Yeah sure.
1:00:13
Speaker 2: The book. The book itself, it's available. It's published in
1:00:16
Speaker 2: the UK and it's published is available from the sonnic
1:00:18
Speaker 2: Bond shop. If you want to signed one, It's available
1:00:21
Speaker 2: from the Sonny Bone shop at BURNINGSHD dot com. It's
1:00:24
Speaker 2: not published in the USA yet. It is out in
1:00:28
Speaker 2: September I think in the USA, so you can pre
1:00:31
Speaker 2: order it from the normal places like Amazon in the
1:00:34
Speaker 2: USA if you want to get one now, I wish
1:00:38
Speaker 2: I would completely understand then then either go to Burning
1:00:41
Speaker 2: Shed or you you probably need to order it from
1:00:43
Speaker 2: Amazon in the UK. It has that I think I
1:00:45
Speaker 2: said this to last time we spoke that the books
1:00:47
Speaker 2: have to be physically shipped to the USA, so they're
1:00:49
Speaker 2: sitting on a boat somewhere right now.
1:00:51
Speaker 1: Well, I always put a link for UK purchases Burning
1:00:55
Speaker 1: Shed USA Amazon, so I'll put that link up for
1:00:58
Speaker 1: Burning Shed there. But you're the right classic series. Tell
1:01:01
Speaker 1: us about this?
1:01:01
Speaker 2: This is very oh yeah, yeah. I mean the idea
1:01:05
Speaker 2: behind the series was that I had seen how successful
1:01:09
Speaker 2: the thirty three in the third series that that have
1:01:14
Speaker 2: been published for many, many, many years, but I always
1:01:17
Speaker 2: find them a little bit dry. They tend to be
1:01:19
Speaker 2: written by academics. So I thought, well, let's do it.
1:01:22
Speaker 2: Let's see my own track series. That's only one publishing.
1:01:26
Speaker 2: On track series has done very very well. Over you
1:01:28
Speaker 2: and you've spoken You spoken to Andrew Darlington just a
1:01:31
Speaker 2: little while ago about about small Faces. Yeah, so let's
1:01:35
Speaker 2: let's let's put the on track spirit into a book
1:01:38
Speaker 2: that into books had just discussed a single album. But
1:01:43
Speaker 2: also I decided I didn't want to do any unless
1:01:46
Speaker 2: we had something different to say or unusual. So what
1:01:51
Speaker 2: I've tried to do is get the authors that are
1:01:53
Speaker 2: doing them to, you know, do new interviews or come
1:01:56
Speaker 2: up with a different angle about about the albums. They're
1:01:59
Speaker 2: talking about. So, for instance, the one published before this
1:02:02
Speaker 2: one is about the super Trunk album I'm gonna reach
1:02:10
Speaker 2: behind me and grab a copy because I'd forgotten the
1:02:14
Speaker 2: title super Trump album Crime of the Century, which has
1:02:17
Speaker 2: written by Steve Pilkington. So and now he based that
1:02:21
Speaker 2: around a long interview he did with Roger Hodson from
1:02:23
Speaker 2: Super Tramp.
1:02:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's one I do and bring it all back
1:02:26
Speaker 1: home too, I see.
1:02:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's so again, that's my that's my over
1:02:32
Speaker 2: good By Goodwin, who's one of my regular authors who
1:02:37
Speaker 2: has the benefit of being he's older than all the
1:02:40
Speaker 2: rest of us, even though I'm quite old. He's older
1:02:43
Speaker 2: than all the rest of us. And he was in
1:02:44
Speaker 2: he was there in the sixties when you know he
1:02:47
Speaker 2: he was hanging around in London when when all these
1:02:50
Speaker 2: things were going on. So he's an expert on people
1:02:53
Speaker 2: like Dylan and Phil Ox and in fact, got book
1:02:57
Speaker 2: on Phillips coming out soon. And he's own up book
1:03:02
Speaker 2: on beef Heart as well, so he's he knows about
1:03:05
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. We've got a book on Purple
1:03:08
Speaker 2: Rain by Prince we have coming out later on in
1:03:15
Speaker 2: the year. We've got Californication by The Red Chili Peppers.
1:03:21
Speaker 2: We've also got an interesting one. We've got The Dreaming
1:03:24
Speaker 2: by Kate Bush, which is the album that is her
1:03:29
Speaker 2: most adventurous album, I would say, but also one of
1:03:35
Speaker 2: possibly her worst selling, but it's also one of those
1:03:39
Speaker 2: albums that people really love. People love it, have really
1:03:42
Speaker 2: connected with it. It's by Peter Kerns, who again has
1:03:45
Speaker 2: done a few on tracks, so that should do really well.
1:03:48
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that one will do really well. I'm holding
1:03:50
Speaker 2: off on commissioning more, just for a few months until
1:03:52
Speaker 2: I've seen that all the books have had a few
1:03:55
Speaker 2: months selling because the first one only come out in April.
1:04:00
Speaker 2: I think in the UK a.
1:04:01
Speaker 1: Good idea that you go to Sonic Bond Publishing dot com.
1:04:06
Speaker 2: Yeah dot com and dot co dot UK both work.
1:04:10
Speaker 1: So if you can subscribe, subscribe right there, subscribe right yeah.
1:04:14
Speaker 2: You can describe to the maintenance, which I haven't used
1:04:16
Speaker 2: much yet but I will be. There's something coming up
1:04:19
Speaker 2: in September that I hope, hopefully will introduce the people,
1:04:23
Speaker 2: so I'm what I'm trying to do is get a
1:04:25
Speaker 2: bit closer to some of the people who actually might
1:04:27
Speaker 2: buy the books. So I'm planning on doing uh a
1:04:31
Speaker 2: sort of book. It's on one book Club, which I
1:04:34
Speaker 2: haven't I'm still finalizing the fine detail.
1:04:36
Speaker 1: Oh great, but.
1:04:39
Speaker 2: Once that happens, it will give people opportunity to to
1:04:43
Speaker 2: buy books directly from us, both in the UK and
1:04:46
Speaker 2: the U s A. But also get special deals and
1:04:49
Speaker 2: things like that. So that's that's that's coming as well,
1:04:55
Speaker 2: because direct from us. Yeah if by direct from us,
1:04:57
Speaker 2: by from Burning Shed basically burning shed.
1:05:00
Speaker 1: But yeah, keep me posting because our audience, they're big
1:05:02
Speaker 1: fans of the Sonic Bond series. So what if we
1:05:05
Speaker 1: can do to help get the word out, that would
1:05:06
Speaker 1: be great. And I thank you Stephen, because before we
1:05:09
Speaker 1: started recording, I revealed to you I have COVID. Okay,
1:05:13
Speaker 1: so who thought this was coming back? So this was
1:05:15
Speaker 1: a nice diversion for me just sitting around all day.
1:05:17
Speaker 1: If anybody notices, like Eric, you look a little pale
1:05:19
Speaker 1: in the video.
1:05:21
Speaker 2: Well, if those of you who are watching the Olympics,
1:05:24
Speaker 2: you know there's there's been a lot of COVID at
1:05:26
Speaker 2: the Olympics, particularly in the US.
1:05:28
Speaker 1: It's coming back.
1:05:31
Speaker 2: I don't think he's coming back. I think he ever
1:05:32
Speaker 2: went away.
1:05:33
Speaker 1: I think yeah, So so thank you you just you
1:05:36
Speaker 1: gave me some great entertainments as I recover and look
1:05:41
Speaker 1: forward to talking to you again down the road and more.
1:05:43
Speaker 1: Sonic Bond authors always enjoy having authors on to talk
1:05:46
Speaker 1: about Sonic Bond books, so thanks so much, Stephen.
1:05:49
Speaker 2: My pleasure. Thanks Eric. That's it, It's in the books.