Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 451: Law firm leadership. Mitigating a 2.9 GPA. From Africa to Europe.

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MBA Wire Taps 451: Law firm leadership. Mitigating a 2.9 GPA. From Africa to Europe. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:17
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, October 13, 2025. Emory University's full time MBA powers growth in your career, your leadership and your Built on a foundation of cross functional problem solving, leadership development and career readiness, this top 20 MBA program delivers a high return on investment with top five career outcomes. Step into a global network that's connected by design and supportive by nature. Explore the Emory MBA at Emory Biz ClearAdmit. That's Emory Biz ClearAdmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
• 0:59
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graeme. Thanks.
• 1:01
  Speaker A: So give me the latest. What are people talking about on Livewire, what deadlines are upcoming and any news and notes you want to share.
• 1:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean we're seeing a lot more interview invites coming out for schools that tend to sort of trickle them out over a good period of time. So a lot of that activity is ongoing. Stanford is an example of that, but several other schools are also rolling out some of these interview invites. So lots of good activity there Upcoming this week. Fisher, Mendoza, Carroll, McCombs, Marshall, Kelly, Arizona, Cary, Mirage, Warrington all have round one deadlines. The consortium actually has its first round deadline and and Jones, they also have a deadline. Stern has around two deadline and Fuqua, Sade and Mendoza are releasing early decisions, early action decisions and interview invites scheduled to come out for Imperial and INSEAD this upcoming week.
• 2:06
  Speaker A: Wow. Never a dull moment. Also, I know some people are looking ahead on the horizon. I believe that the Wharton interview invitations for round one are kind of coming. What is that, October 22nd or something? I can't remember the exact date.
• 2:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, not, not next week though. Graham.
• 2:21
  Speaker A: No, I know, I know, but it's coming. Yeah. So other stuff going on we have.
• 2:27
  Speaker B: You know, so, so like I mean just to interrupt lightly, would next week probably see Booth rolling out interview invites and or Ross.
• 2:36
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
• 2:36
  Speaker B: Would be my speculation.
• 2:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, Good point. Yeah, those are coming.
• 2:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 2:40
  Speaker A: Other news, we continue to have this great schedule of events that are all kind of getting closer and closer. So we're going to connect with real in our Real Human series, we're going to connect with current students and alums from Stanford, Duke, Vanderbilt, UT, Austin, INSEAD and University of Washington Foster. That's on October 21st at 8pm Eastern. And then the next day on the 22nd, also at 8pm we're going to connect with students from Wharton, Berkeley, Georgia Tech and UNC Keenan Flagler. So yeah, you can sign up for Those all of our events now are just@clearadmit.com events. So you can go and sign up. We have more things coming up later in the month. These regional webinars where I think we have basically every top school on the, you know, in the US Taking part in these. But we have those different regions, you know, the west coast, the Great Lakes, Southeast, Mid Atlantic, New England, and then a Texas region. And for each of those, we have, I think anywhere from three to five or even six schools taking part to just talk about their, you know, kind of regional advantages and that sort of thing. So should be fun. Those are all coming up. And again, you can get to all this stuff that just clearedmit.com events. So please sign up because you have to.
• 3:48
  Speaker B: So am I correct in understanding that no New York schools are represented in the regional events?
• 3:54
  Speaker A: Oh, good question.
• 3:55
  Speaker B: It seems like you've gone New England to Mid Atlanta instead of calling it Northeast.
• 4:01
  Speaker A: I think that the New England one may not be. Maybe I'm just calling it New England. It might just be Northeast and there. But as of now, I don't believe that. I think Columbia had a conflict and I'm not sure about Stern. I think those are the only two schools. It's really strange because we've got, you know, so many top schools taking part, but I, for some reason they. Yeah, so we're. It's not a perf. You know, it's nothing personal about New York. No, we just. Yeah, they're not in that group yet. I don't know. We'll see what. What Mike on our team can. Can work up. We also do have, in November and into December, we are going to have deferred enrollment events as well as Masters in management events. So stay tuned for those. And then, Alex, as we've been talking about, we're going to convene on 28th October for our YouTube live stream. Can ask us anything you want. You just have to go to bit.ly.ca. youTube Live to subscribe. Yeah. So lots of event stuff and yeah, should be fun. Alex, we did an admission tip that I love and that I just personally remember being terrified of. And this is an admissions tip about interviewing the interviewer. Right. So everyone knows that when you have one of these MBA admissions interviews, at the end you're often asked the question, do you have any questions for me? And so we have this great tip that we put up on the website. It's accompanied by a video that you and I recorded where we touch on some of the same things and I just love the way that we organize this. Right. So I'm just going to give you there just a few little tips. One is focus on the positive with your MBA interview questions. Right. So this isn't the why should I come here? Or what do you think about the fact that you place fewer people at McKinsey this year than last year or something? You know, something like that. Like focus on the positive. You can kick the tires after you've been admitted. Right. Then the next point is avoid the obvious and the obscure. Right. So if you're, if you're asking questions that are just super obvious, right. On the website, that makes you look potentially like you didn't do your homework, but also you don't want to go so far into the weeds that there's no way your interviewer is going to be able to answer the question. And that leads to the third point, which is mind your audience. So obviously if you're interviewing with a current student, then maybe you can go further into the weeds than if you're interviewing with an admissions officer or an alum who graduated, you know, 10 or 15 years ago. Right. So it depends, know your audience. And the last one is don't overdo it with your questions. So when they ask you to have any questions for me, the idea is not to then stay there for 30 minutes asking them, you know, as many questions as they just asked you. This is like a couple of questions. Right. But Alex, I love that because I remember being terrified of this part of the process.
• 6:38
  Speaker B: Yeah. And that last point just gets to self awareness. You should know how close you are to the end of the interview, how long the interview's been, et cetera. So yeah, have one, two or three questions prepared. But if you know you're close to the end of the interview, you're probably only going to, going to get the opportunity to ask one of those three questions.
• 6:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, you're right. Yeah. So in any event, so that's over on the website. And then the other thing we did is we did a profile of, as part of our Real Human series of current students in the Esade MBA Class of 2027 E is in Barcelona, you know, one of the better programs in Europe along with, you know, ESA and INSI at LBs, etc. Right. So we did a profile and I just wanted to read a couple of little quotes. We connected with Alex, who's from Barcelona, so he's going to school in his homet and he, you know, we just asked like, why did you choose esade? What were the Factors that led to this decision. And he said, for me, ESADE was an easy choice. Having one of the world's leading business schools in my own city was a unique opportunity. But what truly convinced me was how strong they identify with its values. Diversity, innovation, collaboration, social responsibility, among others. In addition, esade's strong connections to the healthcare sector make it an ideal platform for someone like me who's seeking to transition into this industry. So I thought that was interesting because I, you know, I'm going to admit I was not as aware of these connections that they have to health care. It makes sense. And you know, and you know, obviously he lives in Barcelona. It's a great school to attend, right?
• 8:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely. And even if you don't live in Barcelona, Barcelona is a great place to attend a business school.
• 8:12
  Speaker A: Absolutely, yes. And that. So. So speaking of not living in Barcelona, we also connected with Armin and she is originally from Armenia. She's 28, studied economics in Armenia and she had some good advice for people applying because she's the current student at ESADAY as well. And we asked her, like, what's one thing you would change or do differently about your application process? And she said, I would allow myself more time to prepare, not only for the test, but for the reflection that it takes to present yourself authentically. For someone like me, balancing demanding consulting roles with the application process meant working under constant pressure. If I could go back, I would create more space to enjoy the process instead of treating it like another deadline. So I think she makes a really good point too.
• 8:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I also, I mean, I think that the application process is just such a good time for self reflection and for planning ahead, regardless of whether you successfully matriculate an MBA program or just, you know, planning ahead for your life goals. Yeah, essentially.
• 9:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally. And then the last one I'll just mention is we connected with Laura, who's a classmate of the, of our. Of our mean and Alex's at esade, and, and we again asked her, like, what's one thing you would change or do differently? And she said, if I were to do something differently, I would start my essays much earlier. Reflection takes time and it's difficult to capture your true story when you're rushing. Giving yourself more time allows you to refine your ideas and be more authentic in how you present your journey. I thought that was really fascinating because they don't see each other's responses when we do these. Right. So she and Armin have very similar thoughts on this need to reflect and how doing so really produces a better application. So I thought that was great.
• 10:00
  Speaker B: Superb advice. Yeah. Yes.
• 10:01
  Speaker A: Now, Alex, I gotta, I don't know if you saw this, but I got into a little bit of a dust up on LinkedIn about this very Real Humans piece and I just want to get your take on this because it's been really bothering me. So queer admit shared this Real humans piece on LinkedIn as we often do.
• 10:17
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 10:17
  Speaker A: And somebody leaves a comment. I'm not going to name this person, I don't know them, but this person leaves a comment, oh, you know, there are 30 out of 180 students at ESADE who are from India and none of them have been profiled in your, in your Real Humans piece. And so, you know, basically accusing us of like, you know, I guess, sort of racism or something like that. We didn't cover any Indians in this piece. And I thought it was interesting just because I don't think this person understands how these pieces come together. But essentially we reach out to the school, right? And we say, hey, it's Real Humans time. We need five or six candidates who are current students who you think would be, you know, interesting. They usually either send our questionnaire to the students themselves or they put us directly in touch with the students, but we don't really handpick them. It's really the school that does. And I just thought it was an interesting accusation because when I looked at it at the group that we did profile, you know, I mean, we had, so we had three women and three men. We had citizens of Spain, Armenia, Indonesia, a guy from the Netherlands, but who's originally from Turkey, and we had a citizen from your homeland, the uk. Did I say that? So any event, it just, and all kinds of lived experiences among amongst the six students and, you know, industry backgrounds. And so I was like, wow, what, what am I missing here? Why is someone so offended that, you know, with this. It seems like a pretty good group to me, but I don't know, what's your take on this?
• 11:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's difficult, isn't it? Because obviously when someone's looking at the real humans, they're, they're probably trying to identify folks from these pieces that are similar to themselves.
• 11:54
  Speaker A: Yes, fair.
• 11:55
  Speaker B: And, you know, if they're, if, if they're seeing that, you know, a decent representation at the school from their home country, yet none of them are getting profiled. Yeah, that, that's a little bit frustrating for them. But yeah, our process, I think is, is very, well, it's not clear to the, to to, to, to those reading. But yeah, we work directly with the Admissions Office and ultimately they dictate to us who, who gets profiled. Yeah, and I think sometimes from, from, from the Admissions Office's standpoint, they're seeking to profile perhaps candidates that aren't potentially overrepresented in their communities because they recognize those candidates can see their fit there and they want to see different candidates to show that there is quite a broad sort of diversity in the class bodies. So there might be a little bit of that going on, but yeah, I get that point. I don't think we need to be attacked over it, but I do get that point.
• 12:57
  Speaker A: Now the other thing I thought was interesting is just that. But you know, we don't. I wouldn't even argue that the schools necessarily over curate this either because I think what happens is they probably go out to a list of people on campus and say, hey, are you willing to do this? And then some of them are just going to say, no, I'm busy with classes. Like I don't have time to do this. Right. So some of it's a little luck of the draw. Right. But in any event, I just wanted to mention that was like kind of bothering me over the weekend because I feel like we try to do a good job and you know, just the Internet is a dangerous.
• 13:24
  Speaker B: Go for a run, Graham, go for a run.
• 13:26
  Speaker A: That's what I was just doing before we got on air. So. All right, so anything else that you want to talk about before we get into this week's candidates?
• 13:34
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 13:35
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. Our first candidate this week is applying to just two schools for now. And those schools are UNC Kenan Flagler and UT Austin McCombs. I believe they've submitted both of these applications in the first round. Prior to business school, they've been working in the kind of legal administration and operations domain. So they're kind of helping the business side of a law firm, you know, the kind of operations and stuff. They are looking to do something else after business school. I mean, they, they want to sort of advance within law firm administration with the ultimate goal of being a CEO of a large sized firm. And when I say something else, I meant something like non traditional that you don't necessarily see every MBA grad doing. They've taken the GRE and they have a 315 on that, that test. They are retaking the test even though they've already applied. They're going to retake and submit a New score kind of, you know, in process and I believe they're taking the test in a couple of weeks. They had a 3.46 undergraduate GPA, seven years of work experience and I know you kind of traded some messages with them and they ended up sharing the fact that you know, they are going to retake the test that their top choice, which is utter Austin because they want to work in Austin after business school has, you know, apparently will accept a late score kind of a, you know, an updated score after the deadline. And they also say that they're going to take some math courses starting in January to get their quant skills up to par and they think they'll have great recommendations. They also are very involved in their local community. They actually say very involved in local Jewish community and my synagogue, including founding a woman women's circle for Jewish young professionals. They're on the board of directors for the synagogue and also chair a committee at the congregation. And they're mentioning that they're including that stuff in their essays so that they are, you know, come across as well rounded, et cetera. So what do you make of this candidacy?
• 15:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think overall this is actually a really interesting candidate. Like you say their work is a little less traditional working, you know, for a law firm and with the idea in the long run to sort of manage and run the runner law firms offices rather than doing the legal work I suppose but and also outside of work, I mean obviously they're very involved in, engaged in their community and I do think that does show sort of, you know, another interesting perspective for them. Obviously the candidate has a real interest in being in Austin, Texas post mba and we'll see some candidates, candidates like this, right. They know exactly where they want to be post mba so location is super important in this regard. They will really benefit from doing their MBA likely in Austin, Texas or in close proximity and so forth. So that helps I think for them in terms of target school selection. Obviously Ut McCombs is one of the, you know, is probably their principal target because of those, those reasons. Yeah, I don't think they needed to have applied in round one to, to optimize and they have this issue of, you know, they're going to retake the GRE to try to get that more up to par. So would it have been better for them to have applied in round two with that new GRE score or taking the approach they're taking? Maybe there isn't that much difference. But you know, they need to make sure when they retake the test they get that, you know, a better score, I think just to be more competitive. Can they get in with a 315? Yes, it's probably with it at the lower range for programs like McCombs, but. But I think I would feel more comfortable if they were in the 320s. For sure.
• 17:37
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 17:38
  Speaker B: So, you know, taking additional math coursework, again, that's not until January, so. So to me, Graham, this sort of does smack of someone that perhaps should have just applied in round two and got more of their docs in a row. Nevertheless, many schools will take additional materials after the deadline and one example of that is an additional higher or a new test score. Yeah, so. So yeah, I. I hope they do well in the retake of the GRE and hopefully they. They along the way they get an interview invite and. And can sort of really present. Present themselves.
• 18:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm really. I mean, I'm kind of of two minds here. So on the one hand I'm like, wow, you know, three, four, six, decent gpa. This person, super active in her community, is also, you know, working in the legal profession, not as a lawyer, but on the kind of operations and. And management side, but, you know, kind of in that domain that are very concrete and, you know, to be attainable on the other side. Yeah, we have this low GRE and I worry that given her work experience, that there could be this issue around quantitative ability. Right. So people will look and say, oh, well, you know, if you're just doing sort of management work, you know, back office, et cetera, at a law firm, you're not, you know, hanging around a lot of numbers potentially. So I just. I'm a nerve. I'm nervous about that, you know, and it's that three. It's a combo of a lower GRE with. With maybe this sort of quant liability. And so I agree, probably should have just applied in round two and done MBA math or business fundamentals from GMAC or something in the fall to sort of really demonstrate the readiness. What I would say to this person is if it doesn't work out with UT Austin, and I hope it does, I mean, I hope that they. Or with Keen Flag or hope that they get that new test score, get it in and that it helps them. But if it doesn't and they really want to be in Texas, I would strongly consider looking at SMU Cox or Ross Rice Jones. I mean, those are two very good MBA programs in the same state that could get them to the position that they may want. You know, they could also look at places like Vanderbilt or Emory. I mean there are lots of really good schools out there, but we'll see, we'll have to see where the chips fall on this GRE retake, I think as a first step.
• 19:54
  Speaker B: Yeah. And they'll have, you know, because they've applied to a couple of schools in round one, they'll have the luxury of sort of getting feedback. Well, feedback in terms of decisions. Yeah, for round one. So. And they'll have plenty of time to target some of these other programs in round two if they need to. And if they do get into McCombs, like, like say that would be ideal, but maybe even then they might want to take a punt on Fuqua or something like that just to get an out of state experience to bring them back to Austin, Texas. So. So yeah, I mean there are advantages and disadvantages of their strategy to go into round one for sure, but. But let's hope their approach pays off.
• 20:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. I want to thank her for sharing her profile. Best of luck on the test when it comes up. And let's move on though and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week is applying to Carnegie Mellon, Tepper, Cornell Johnson and UCLA Anderson. So just three schools looking to start next fall. They've been working in environment, investment banking and then more recently in a family business. Although the family business is kind of a investment type experience according to them. They're interested in maybe either returning to the family business to help expand it or potentially getting into investment banking in the short term, like right away after business school before returning to the family business. They have a GRE score of 317 and an undergraduate GPA of 2.9. They have four years of experience, located in Canada, would love to land in New York City after business school. And they do mention that they had a tough time in undergrad, hence the 2 9, but that they basically took a leave of absence. They had two terrible years, took a leave of absence and came back and had a 3.75 GPS in their last two years. And they're sort of on the fence about whether they should be retaking that GRE score, which I said was a 317. They have, however, worked to build an alternative transcript. That's what we call it when you're trying to bolster your GPA or need to address a kind of weak gpa. So they took math for management at UC Berkeley online, I'm guessing. And they also did MBA math, which I mentioned earlier, and they've taken two accounting classes and all these classes they've done, they've had A grades, so they've built that alternative transcript. But, Alex, what do you make of this candidacy?
• 22:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a shame because obviously something happened in those first two years at undergrad to really pull their GPA down. Because if they had a 3.75 in their last two years and their overall GPA is 2.9, those first two years must have been fairly horrific. And they attribute it to how health issues and so forth. So I would certainly address this in the optional essay. And as you say, they built out an alternative transcript, so that's very good. But again, the 317 GRE, even though it's. It's quite, quite good on the math side, I believe that's what they said. They really need to try to get that GRE above the medium for the schools they're targeting to help compensate for the much lower gpa. So I would absolutely push them to, you know, go all in prep, prep, prep and try to improve that GRE score because that would then further their case that these first two years at undergrad were a complete anomaly and the reasons for it were. And they can make that case. You know, it surprises me that someone can graduate with a 2.9Gpa and have the sort of career that they've had actually, you know, investment banking and, you know, other related stuff. And I assume they've done very well and obviously they've got the family business that they work for and so on and so forth. So I'm guessing that their career focus to date and so forth has actually been very good. So hopefully they can get some strong recommendations, although with the family business that might be a bit more challenging. Who, who's their recommender and so on and so forth. So I'm. I'm just a little bit of a quandary with this overall candidacy, Graham, because part of me thinks that there's actually good evidence that they are very smart, but there's other sort of elements of their metrics, like the 2.9Gpa and the 317 GRE that tell a different story.
• 24:48
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm concerned. I mean, I think when you look at the schools that they're targeting, you know, these are all arguably top 16, you know, schools with, you know, or maybe top 20 if you're, you know, want to give, be generous here. And I worry that a 29317 is not going to cut it. And I know they've done. They've done a lot of what you're supposed to do. Right. They built this great alternative transcript that will help. But if the tech. They. You just. You need a home run on the test when the GPA is really low. And that's, I think, what it comes down to. The other thing I'm a little concerned about, as you point out, is. Yeah, where are the wrecks coming from? If you're in a family business, I mean, usually you go to an advisor like you're, you know, or a customer or someone else who's not a family member to write. But also, I don't see any extracurriculars. And I believe you asked them about extracurriculars and they didn't respond to that. So I'm nervous because it'd be one thing if they had. If everything else was great, amazing extracurriculars, you know. You know, it would help to maybe bolster these sort of weaknesses in the academic side. But I'm just. Yeah, I'm a little concerned. And so I. I would actually encourage this person to retake the test, apply in round two, and ideally probably expand the scope beyond the three schools that they've mentioned here.
• 26:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's very fair.
• 26:04
  Speaker A: So. All right, so I want to thank them for sharing and hopefully this is. I know it's not fun advice to hear, but hopefully it's really helpful as they move on. But let's talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our third candidate this week. Week is applying to IE Business school in Barcelona or. No, in Madrid. Sorry, ese. In Barcelona, Insead and Oxford. They want to start, they say, in 27, so they have a little bit of time. It sounds like they've been working as a strategic intelligence manager and they're doing that actually in the banking sector. So they basically work in kind of competitive intelligence in banking. They've progressed from analyst to senior analyst to manager. This candidate is bilingual, French and English. They not only did an undergrad where they had a 3.1, but they also have a master's degree in marketing where they have a 3.5. No test score yet, and they have nine years of work experience. This candidate's located in North Africa, wants to return to Africa after business school. And they mentioned, mentioned, you know, that they are wondering about this sort of three one undergrad versus three. Five masters that they have. And so they're wondering if they should emphasize their Master's GPA to strengthen the academic side of the profile. And they're also just wondering, like, what are their odds of admissions at some of these schools, they, you know, are kind of just wondering what they need to highlight to be successful in the application process. And the last thing I'll mention mention is they did elaborate on their career goals. They said, looking to pivot or advance my career through an mba, which I know you and I talked about, Alex, before we came on air. So I'll let you have at it. What do you make of this candidacy?
• 27:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think that that career goal needs to be much better developed because, you know, basically they looking to pivot means doing something different or advancing my career through an MBA means doing much of the same of what they're doing. So they've covered that, the entire spectrum in a short phrase and so forth. So they really want to think long and hard about this. So obviously it's a huge investment in, in their, you know, in their career. It's probably the biggest investment that they'll make for the rest of their career. So they really want to know what the outcomes are going to look like and so forth. So it's not only valuable in terms of, you know, being making themselves a stronger candidate for admissions, but it's very valuable just from a personal perspective and so forth that we talked about a little bit earlier. So I would really do a deep dive to figure out the goals. They've already got nine years of experience, so I'm not sure why they're waiting an additional year unless they've only just had the sort of thought that they're starting to look at an mba. But certainly if they could get their docs in a row, apply in round two, you know, the January rounds this season, that might be a better approach. But to get their docs in a row, they've got to sort out these goals. And I would suggest that they need to take standardized test.
• 29:13
  Speaker A: Oh yeah.
• 29:14
  Speaker B: Or at least I don't see any evidence that they've done that yet. So they've got the Masters A three, five. They talk about. Should I emphasize that? I mean, you absolutely need to talk about that. Yeah, but where the emphasis is always is going to be on the undergrad graduate degree, but you can complement it with the additional Masters. But then they've got to distinguish and differentiate why they need an MBA based off the fact they already have a Master's in marketing. So there's a potential roadblock there that they need to overcome too. And obviously you can make the case because perhaps it's from the international perspective, they're further along in their career, they recognize the value and so on and so Forth. So there are good reasons why you might want to do a full time MBA at this stage, but they do need to overcome that. So I would say they've got to take the standardized test, they've got to do really well in it and they've got to get much more clarity on these, on, on, on these goals. Great.
• 30:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. You know, I think there's some serious strikes against this candidate when you look at, you know, okay, three, one undergrad gpa, you know, no test that we can see. And they also mentioned limited formal extracurriculars. Right. So yeah, those are serious strikes. And you know, it's not like the list of Target school Easy. Right. They've got, you know, arguably some of the best schools in Europe. Some might say that IE is a bit easier to get into than the likes of ESA and Oxford or insead, but none of these schools are, I mean these are all top schools in Europe. So I'm nervous about this now. And as you just said, you know, I love that they have the 3,5 GPA in their masters, but that Masters also opens up a little bit of a Pandora's box around like, hey wait, why do you need another Master's in business? So they need to sort of make sure that that's clear. In an ideal world that 3, 5 from the master's would be like a degr that they completed right after undergrad and they hadn't had any work experience or you know, something like that. So. But I don't, I don't know. But you know, obviously taking the test and doing really well would, would probably put to rest some of these things, you know, and I'm, I'm hopeful that maybe they do have some outside interests if not formal activity. Maybe there are things they do with their spare time like running or, you know, whatever it might be. Right. So I think as of now, when I look at this list, I say it's going to be tough, tough, but we don't have a test score and that could change things. And so I would encourage them if they, if they are. I think in all instances it might be smart to cast a slightly wider net and look at some additional programs. We have some other really good programs in Europe if they're set on being in Europe. You know, you've got Rotterdam School of Management, you've got ESMT in Berlin. So there are other schools out there that they could be looking at too. But they need to get, get things sort of sorted with the test and that'll be their best kind of way to combat some of the issues.
• 32:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yep.
• 32:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, just one last thing. As you said, I don't want to harp on it too much, but as you said, like, they need a set of career goals. I mean, that's kind of a basic piece of this process. So they need to be able to articulate what are they doing after business school. And, you know. Yeah, that's. That's a basic thing. We have a lot of good information on our website about how to articulate your goals and how to figure that out. There's even a video of you and I talking about it. So they should avail themselves of all these resources and put together a strong file that way. Anyway, I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Alex, I know you're headed off on some vacation, so thanks for doing this, you know, a little bit earlier in the week so we could work around your vacation time and have an amazing trip. And we'll connect when you're back, I guess.
• 32:44
  Speaker B: Very good. Thank you very much. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.
• 33:02
  Speaker A: It.