Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 16, Season 1: What it Looks and Feels Like to be Securely Attached

Transcript

Episode 16, Season 1: What it Looks and Feels Like to be Securely Attached · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Doug Podcast. I'm your co host
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Raina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley. Hello. Hello,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: We've got episode sixteen today. Yes, and the topic of
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: this episode is what it looks like and feels like
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to be securely attached? Yes, So what does it feel
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: like in our peace? Yeah?
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just confidence, resilience, sort of knowing that even through
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: really difficult moments you are going to be okay.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Nervous system regulation is just at the heart of secure attachment. Metacognition,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: which is this fancy word for being able to observe
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: your own thoughts, is a key component of secure attachment.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I always tell people you can talk yourself on the
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: ledge or you can talk yourself off the ledge.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Right now, what's the difference there?
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Right? So, if let's just say, for example, you have
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: a bad moment with your significant other, say they say
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: something and it comes across rude, and you get a
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: little triggered, right because you feel like, hey, I didn't
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: deserve that, Right If your thoughts are I didn't deserve that,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: They're such a jerk, What in the heck is their problem?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Every thought that you have speaks to your nervous system.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So if your thoughts are I'm married to a jerk,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: they're super inconsiderate. That was so rude. Your nervous system
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: is going to go, oh my gosh, nine one one
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: read alert, I'm not safe. But if you have this
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: metacognitive skill, which is largely what I teach, where you
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: can sort of observe your thoughts coming in in real
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: time and you can challenge them and be like, hold on, yeah, okay,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: he just said something I didn't like. He's not really
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: a jerk, right. In fact, a lot of the time,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: most of the time, the reality of the time, he's
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: a wonderful, loving husband, right, But in this particular moment,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: I didn't love it. And I don't tell people to
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: gaslight themselves and be like, oh, that was no big deal.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't feel upset about that. No, that's not what
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I want you to do. What I want you to
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: do is to go stop. I didn't love that. It
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: didn't come across great. But let me take a deep
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: breath and step take a step back and think about
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: how I want to approach this. And being able to
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: take that step back only happens when you are safe
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: in your own nervous system. And so the first step
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: is to stop catastrophizing, stop using what we call cognitive distortions,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: which are just essentially thoughts that really aren't true. They're
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: too extreme, or they're too black and white or whatever.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: And so when we start to get in the habit
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: of really monitoring our thoughts, well, the very first thing
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: most people discover is that their thoughts are really negative, yeah,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and really catastrophizing. And then they wonder why they have
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: anxiety and depression. It's like, well, that's speaking into your
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: nervous system. If you are just a victim of your
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: own thoughts and they just whatever rolls in you believe
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: and you accept as the truth, then yeah, you're gonna
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: experience a lot of pain.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know, the first step in getting there
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: in those situations where you're actually triggered is starting with
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: just your everyday thoughts, with.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Your everyday thoughts, right, If you just try to practice
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that in your own relationship, you're never going to get
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: good enough at it where it becomes automatic.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I think it really starts with just how you speak
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: to yourself.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: For sure. That's a huge part of it, your own
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: self talk, right, I mean I used to shame myself.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I used to beat myself up. I was a bully
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: to myself pretty much my entire life until I earned
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: my attachment security.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Now I refuse to bully myself. I refuse it. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that those thoughts don't come in sure,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: but when they do, I'm like, heck no, I'm not
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: anticipating with that. If I always think about you, I
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: think if I wouldn't say it to Rena, right, I'm
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: not gonna say it to myself.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great way to really put it
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: into practice. Like would I say this to like somebody
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I love? Yeah? No, never, Right, Like, whend I ever
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: look at somebody and be like, oh my gosh, you
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: look disgusting in an outfit? Right, Because I'm pretty sure
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I've probably said that to myself when I've looked in
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: the mirror, Oh for sure.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: And I mean I have met so many women who
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: are going through the process of earning their attachment security,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: and we talk about what is your inner voice, like, right,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: what does it look like, what does it sound like?
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: And they report back to me my inner voice is mean, yeah,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: she's a bully.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think causes it. I mean, let's
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: talk about the root calls. Right, where does it begin?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: It begins in being shamed in childhood. Yeah, being parented
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: in ways that make you feel shame. So let me
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: give you an example. I think I told we talked
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: a little bit about this in the car.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: So we got a turtle and a hamster. We have
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: four kids. We got turtle on a hamster. Siblings are
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: partnering up to help take care of these bets, right,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: which is great. The turtle is so easy, yeah, hamster
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: not so much. Right, So the hamster. One of my
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: children was holding the hamster. The hamster kind of got away.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: The hamster is okay, But in that moment where one
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: of my children express I accidentally let the hamster like
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: escape from my hands. I could tell that she felt
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: this immense shame, like I had made such a mistake.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I put the hamster in harm's way, like the dog
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: could have eaten the hamster. You know, something could have
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: happened to the hamster. And I had to really sit
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: down with her and I had to say, baby, accidents
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: happened to everybody, and when we make a mistake, we
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: have to really watch out that we're not shaming ourselves
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: and ourselves. I'm not punishing you. God's not punishing you,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: and you can't punish your right. So let's feel that emotion.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Where is it at right now? And she said it's
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: in my chest and it's in my eyes, like her
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: eyes were welling up with tears. And I said, okay, well,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: let's let's acknowledge that and let's let it come through.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: And it did, and she shed a few tears and
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: then she started kind of coming down from it, and
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: then I said, okay, let's do our breathing. Let's breathe
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: through it. And then I said, now, what do you think?
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: And she said this wasn't my fault. And I said,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: that's right. You only have so much control over a
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: teeny tiny little critter.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Right, it's gonna wants to wiggle away, right.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: It's not a big deal. She's fine. The hamster is good.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: The hamster, SAME's donut. It's good, right, everybody's fine. And so,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: but I never had somebody in my childhood. Again, Mom,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I love you. You did such a good job
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: with me, but you know you didn't know, you don't
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: know what you don't know to say when I made
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: a mistake, when I was being so hard on myself. Baby,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: let's sit with this, but let's release it, because it's
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: not necessary and it's not true. Right, And I grew
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: up in a house and in a religion where shame
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: was really a big part of it. And actually shame
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: is the most disregulating thing to the nervous system. So
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a large part of regulating your nervous system is to
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: do shame, really releasing shame. And so you have to
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: recognize where is shame coming up, right, And a lot
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: of times it starts in our own thoughts. We are
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: actively voicing shame onto ourselves and accepting it as if
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: it's the truth. And we have to stand in authority
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: against that. We can't, we have to. We don't want
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: to again further shame ourselves for having the emotion, because
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: then you're just adding shame on top of shame. Yeah,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: but what we need to do is say, Okay, I'm
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: not going to judge it that it's here. I recognize
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: that it comes from a place in my past. I'm
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: going to feel it in my body. I'm gonna let
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: it be in my body. I'm gonna sit with it.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: But then I'm going to breathe it out, let it out,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: take it down, and then I'm going to cognitively win
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: my own thoughts and say this isn't the story.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know we've talked. We've talked a lot
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: about shame, just because I do. I agree that it's
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: probably the root cause of a lot of nervous system justsregulation.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Most Yeah, especially in me, because you know, I had
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: a Again, she's not here to defend herself. She's gone.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: And she was the fantastic mother, loyal mother, had tons
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: of wonderful qualities, but she would do certain things like
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: a moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: That was like her favorite thing to say. And so,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: of course we've already established the growing up in the
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: nineties was hard enough where every every woman was like
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: stick thing, anorexic and unless you were anorexic, like you
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: weren't thin. Everybody was on a diet. It was like
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: the it was like the time of It was a
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: time period where like all the diet foods came out
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: on the market. Everything was low fat everything, you know,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: which we've now discovered is not actually healthy for you.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: But there you know, so there was this societal issue
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: where for us and our generation, right, there was so
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: much shame around anything anything we are.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: There was so much shame around our basic needs, right,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: and actually shaming yourself for your basic needs, like being hungry, Yeah,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: is is severely dysregulating. So a famous psychologist named Maslow
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: a long time ago in the seventies put this pyramid together, okay,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: and he coined the term self actualization, which means that
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: you reached the top of meeting your own needs, like
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: you've you've met all of your own human needs. And
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: when you've met all your own human needs, you get
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: to this place of self actualization, which is like this
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: inner piece and like the fulfillment of your own authenticity,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: and it's sort of like the goal, right, And so
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of therapeutic intervention around sort of
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: this pyramid, and there's actually been a ton of research
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: to show that he was right. And at the very
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: bottom of the pairments you have to start at the
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: bottom and you have to go up to the top
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: are your physiological needs. And a large part of regulating
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: your own nervous system is and this is part of
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: earning your attachment security. I mean These are things that
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: people don't think about, but it's huge. It makes an
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: enormous impact. Are meeting your own needs without shame. So
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: things that I used to do that when I was
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: insecurely attached, where I wasn't meeting my own basic needs,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: not eating when I was hungry because I was always
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: on a diet, or if I did eat, shaming myself
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: that maybe I ate too much. Powering through work and
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: not using the restroom, holding you know, the need to
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: urinate all day long. And I would tell people like
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: I only pee like twice a day, and they'd be
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: like what, And I'm like, well, I'm busy. I have
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: to work, I have to do these things. And I
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: was just too busy to have to interrupt what I
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: was doing to use use the rest which.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Literally takes less than thirty usually.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: But you know, there's this concept called flow, like you
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: get in the flow, right, and oh yeah, So like
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: you know, when I was a professor for a lot
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: of years of psychology and I was running a graduate
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: psychology program and it was so much work, you know,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: and I'd just be working sometimes into the night or whatever,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: and I was in the flow and it would be
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: like I would be holding my pee for hours, right,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and there comes a point in time where you stop
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: noticing that you have that need, right.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Something it would be in thirsty.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know we're being thirsty. Sleep is a big one, right,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: and knowing that you should have a good sleep schedule,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: but scrolling on your phone, right, So meeting your own
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: basic physiological needs is huge. Then up the ladder. One
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: more step is safety. Most of us never feel safe
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: in our own nervous systems because we started with a
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: childhood that involved discipline that was inappropriate or shame I
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: mean the phrase in my house shame on you was used.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, same, same, and that's not cool. Yeah, or just
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: having an I know we've talked about this too, having
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: a parent that you felt very emotionally responsible for. Yeah.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I feel like, if anything, that really disregulated my nervous system.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: As a young child because parentification.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I was constantly on eggshells as to how
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: to gauge really both my parents to a degree. My
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: dad just wasn't reactive and my mom was. You know,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I think I just fiend affection from my dad more
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: than anything, because he would he was more dismissive.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So we have to be able to feel safe
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: in our own bodies because the language of the subconscious
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: where our attachment wounds live is feeling of the body.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: It is somatic sensations. That is the voice of the subconscious.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: So when our subconscious is speaking, when it's trying to
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: inform us, it's doing so through the feelings component of emotion. Right,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: So emotion is made up of the feelings in the
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: body plus the thoughts about what's happening to us. Right,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: The feelings component of emotion is the language of the subconscious,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: So we will feel things in our nervous system that
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: we don't quite always cognitively understand, Like what am I
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: actually experiencing here? And what most people do is they
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: either launch into a trauma response where they behave in
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: ways they wish they wouldn't. And we're talking about like
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: fighting with your partner, drinking, using drugs, shopping, you know,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: binge eating. Those are all trauma responses, right, in different categories. Right,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: they're all coping mechanisms. I should say they're coping mechanisms
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: for the trauma responses. That's a more accurate way to
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: talk about it. Or we suppress we're like no, I
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: can't think about this, and I'm going to go do
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: something else.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: What do you think is worse?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, the coping mechanisms for both are usually the same. Right,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do something else to try to not
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: feel what I'm feeling. And whether you're successful at that is,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: you know, depends really on your attachment style. If you're
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: like an anxious preoccupied, you can't compartmentalize, so you're going
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: to usually try to use other people to band aid
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: your pain. That's what anxious preoccupied do. They use other
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: people to soothe themselves. The dismissive avoidant is going to
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: use hobbies, work, you know, other things. The fearful avoidant
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: is going to use more addictive things like shopping, eating, sex, drugs,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: alcohol to band aid. Right, And so, whether you're feeling
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: them intensely and trying to band aid, or you're pushing
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: them down and distracting to try to band aid, at
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, most people are trying to
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: band aid. And so we actually have to feel our
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: feelings all the way through the body in order for
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: them to be truly processed. So one of the biggest
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: things I learned in being a securely attached person was
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: that you have to let it come fully through. Well,
• 15:34
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• 15:36
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• 16:31
  Speaker 1: So when it fully comes through. I mean, are there
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: actual physical things that happen.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, you will cry, you might throw up, you might scream,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: you might stomp, you might punch a pillow. Yeah, I
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: mean that's what fully realized emotion looks like yeah. And
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: because as children we were often not allowed to have
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: those fully emotional responses. So I have somebody very close
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: to me in my life who has a little boy,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: and he's so precious, and this little boy has had
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: some trauma from his dad, and the little boy sometimes,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's a very normal three year old little boy,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: but sometimes you can tell he does get very dysregulated, right,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: like three year olds do, but probably a little extra
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: so because of what he's experienced. And his mother is
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: so good, she just sits with him and just allows
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: him to have those emotions, which so many parents are like, no,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: make make them stop because they're acting up bad. It's
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: like no, they're having somatic sensations that they can't control
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: right now. And when you force them into you, essentially
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: by punishing them for it, you're forcing them into a
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: freeze response. You're forcing them into a suppression, which doesn't
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: complete the emotional cycle, which causes wounding.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: So, if I could, if I could go back, and
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I had three year old or a two year old
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: and they were throwing a tantrum instead of trying to
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: kind of I was an oversoth it's okay.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we're going to be.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: You know, I was an oversoth. I was more of
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: a let me helicopter, let me step in, let me
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: try everything I can to make it okay. And really,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: what you need somebody to do is just make space
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: and be like, I'm here, and it's okay that you're
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: doing this right now. Yeah, it's okay that you're bohooing,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: it's okay that you're screaming.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Gosh, I wish I could go back and start over.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I know, but but so many people are going to
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: hear me say that and go, no, we can't have
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: children that act like that. They have to have respect,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: they have to have this. But here's what I will
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: tell you. Children that express their emotions fully as young
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: children grow up to be adults who can quickly regulate
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: their emotions. And people think it's the opposite. People think, oh,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: if you let your toddler throw a tantrum in childhood,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: they'll become adults that throw tantrums. And it's like, actually,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: it's the opposite. Yeah, as long as you are. But
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: the best thing a parent can do is just not interfere.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: But Sam, and it's okay. That you're experiencing this, give
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: him that sense of give him that sense of safety,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: and allow it to just rage through their body because
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: they don't have the brain cells yet to regulate it.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Most adults can't even regulate their own emotions, let alone
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: a two or three year old child.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Man, I wish I could go back and start over,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: because one thing I noticed about John Paul specifically, and
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: he's definitely you know, he's had trauma, but he's like
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: this ball of tension. Like when I hug him, you
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: can feel that his nervous system is just he's never
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: released anything. So like when I hug him sometimes I
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: have to be like buddy, like relax because he's just
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: so wound tight, so wound tight. Yeah, And I know that,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: you know, he has to experience life the way that
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: he will in order to you know, work through that.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: But gosh, if I I could go back and start over,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: knowing what I know now, I know, And that's why
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: this information is so important. It's so important, Like the
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: awareness that you're bringing to people not just in their
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: romantic relationships, but in their relationships, you know, with their children.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: It's so important. And that's why I've said you know
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: in other episodes, these are the things that change the
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: world because if you can if you can implement these
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: things into children, and then they grow up to not
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: be angry adults who want to like blow up buildings
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and stuff, you know, that's one example.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Or are getting divorced at divorce rates because they know
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: how to sustain a relationship, right, because they're disregulated all
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: the time. So what I will say is people think, oh,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: if you let your kid do that, then they walk
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: all over you. No, you can still hold boundaries. You
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: can still say no, I'm not willing to talk to
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: you about that until you're able to calm down. But
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I will sit here with you until that happens, right,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: And I'm not going to leave you until it happens.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: But no, or you know, okay, like my husband's so
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: good at this, did I tell.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: You the log story? I don't think so.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, So two weeks ago, every other weekend we go
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: take all the four kids. When we have all four kids,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: we take them usually camping in the camper and we
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: take them on the boat at Lake Cumberland. And of
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: course you know they're my kids are fourth generation boaters. Yeah,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: so they're very very experienced. We're very safe. Everybody wears
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: the life jacket, all that stuff. You know, we're good
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: on the boat. But we were in this cove and
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: my step son had this gigantic log and you could
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: tell that this and this log floated just like a barrel. Yeah,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: and it had been so smoothed out, probably from like
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: beating up against the rocks, and it was just part
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: of the habitat there. It was really cool. And he man,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: he thought it was the coolest thing. He was spinning
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: it and he was pushing it and he could ride
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: on it, and he was like, when we were getting
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: ready to leave the cove, he really wanted to take
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: this log. And this log was right like, one, we
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: couldn't have even gotten on the boat. Two wasn't gonna
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: fit it with all of us on the Yeah, there's
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: no way, right. So my step son got dysregulated and
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: he started crying and he's little. Yeah, and no joke,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, my husband just has this gift with his son,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: and you've seen it. It's really beautiful. He he goes
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: over to DJ and of course he gets down and
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: he gets kind of on his level, which is another thing.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: You know, you get down on the kids level and
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: you sort of speak eye to ild right, and he
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: gets down, you know, climbs down the ladder on the boat,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: gets in the water, and he said, buddy, he said, man,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I know you're disappointed. This log is so cool. He said,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I would be disappointed if I were you too, buddy.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: And he said, and it's okay to be disappointed and
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: to feel sad that we can't bring it, but we
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: still can't bring it right. And so what did he do?
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Did he go quit crying this log's just too big,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: get over it? No, because what would that be doing.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Shaming you for having a wanter and need right, and
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: shaming ourselves for our own needs and wants is what
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: causes our nervous system to be bonkers. So he goes
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: and he says he allowed his son to feel heard, seen,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: and understood. I see your disappointment, and then I see
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: your sadness. And as soon as my husband acknowledges his emotions, boom,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: his son is starts immediately regulated right because he was heard,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: his emotions were seen. Your emotions are, especially the feelings
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: portion are fighting to be heard, and if you don't
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: hear them by stuffing them back down. That energy will
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: stay with you and it's going to come out in anger,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: It's going to come out in you know, addictions or
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: bad habits. It's going to come out in all sorts
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: of different ways.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I keep wondering. I think about that with John Paulick.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Is one day is he just going to like sort
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: of explode and like because he is so well and tight,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: but you know, I mean he has had moments where
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: he's he's really so of it, and I encourage it.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: I have to ask though. This is actually sort of funny.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: So you know the the TikTok trend where you know,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: parents would allow their children to like go into the
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: bathroom in the mirror and like say cuss words, like
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: and like have you seen that trend? No?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I haven't.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's like there's this trend that I guess
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: it was probably a couple of months ago where these
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: parents were allowing their children to like go into the bathroom,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: lock the door like away from them, and look in
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the mirror and like scream out things like cuss words
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: or whatever they wanted to say right the right that
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't normally be able to say. If you know,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: they were you know that they would normally be like.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: What did you just say?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: You know, and so I just, you know, I thought,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because I mean, I think about
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: I grew I grew up as a preacher's daughter, so
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: like cussing was right, it was awful, like we were
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: not allowed to.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I don't allow my kids to cuss in front of me.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: I don't allow my kids to cuss with their friends, right,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: But if they wanted in a private space to yell
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: something out because their nervous system felt dysregulated, then so
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: be it. That's better than them acting out against someone else.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: And it feels good to do it too. It's funny
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: because I was on the creek last weekend kayaking, you know,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: and there's nobody in sight. I'm there with two of
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: my other friends, and I don't know what we were
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: talking about, but we were talking about our you know,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I think, old relationships, and I just like screamed at
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: the top of my lungs. I won't say his name,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: my ex is a narcissist. And I just like screamed
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: it out into like this wide open space, you know,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: as I was like floating on my back in the
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: water and it just felt so good. And I mean
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I could have screamed out anything, right, but it just
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: felt so good to like release some of that tension
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: that I've had built up, or even like because sometimes
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: even when we talk, I mean I'll admit, like when
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: we have these sessions in the podcast, like even I
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: still get a little triggered, you know.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I mean it's tough.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: It is, it's really tough because it brings up some
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: some past painful stuff that sometimes you feel.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Like you've worked through and then it comes back.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you realize, well, maybe I haven't completely
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: worked through it.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I understand. So there's this book called The Meaning of
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Truth by Nicole Sex, and she has a specific journaling method,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: and I think that there's some validity in the concept.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, whether or not people choose to use that
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: method for this concept is you know, somebody's choice. But
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: I think that the concept of speaking your truth, essentially,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: it's this method of journaling where you just you say
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: whatever you waw, yeah, right, like no matter how dark, dark, evil,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: whatever it is, just comes out because those are emotions.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, my spiritual faith kind of says like those
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: are getting rid of the Dean that's getting rid of
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: the demons because you expel them and then you stand
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: up against them and say that's not the story in
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Jesu's name, like I'm not doing that. And that helped
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: me a lot, it did. It helps me a lot
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: to just release it right, like spit the demons.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Outright, because I mean, I think that's the big thing,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: because I know that you talk a lot about like
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: understanding so much of this stuff, and like as you
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: talk about this stuff, it's like, Okay, I understand all this,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: but how do you really do it? Like what are
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: the actual things? And I know you have to gate
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: keep a little bitter obviously.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Nobody I'll ever buy my course now.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I mean you do have to gate keep because you
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: have a business that you're running and it's it's you're doing,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: you know, really great work. But some of those tools
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: in terms of well, I think you just said it.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean the first one is metacognition. Yeah,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: we have to become vigilant of ours. And there are
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: different methodologies to that that I teach, and it would
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: be way longer than this podcast for you to go
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: into the exact steps, but the premise of it is
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: you have to start monitoring your thoughts because you have
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: to realize there's this domino effect thoughts to emotion to behavior, right,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: and if a securely attached person what they are able
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: to do is they are able to put the pause
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: in before they respond. There and when we feel safe
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: in our nervous systems, we actually embody a lot of
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: really great qualities that sort of turn on, which are curiosity, compassion,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: and empathy, the ability to experience joy, our ability to
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: be mindful of the present moment, so be mindful of
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: like your tone of voice and the words that you're speaking.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: And so a securely attached person when they're going to
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: communicate with their partner, they're able to take that step back,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: call their nervous system into safety because they're good at
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: that because their parents taught him how to do that, right,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: and then go okay, instead of being assumptive or instead
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: of you know, saying whatever thought just went through my
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: head and letting it fly out of my mouth that
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: could end up being hurtful and starting a fight, I'm
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: going to figure out how to approach this with my
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: partner right, and I'm going to take those moments to
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: get my thoughts straightened out to calm myself down, and
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: then I'm going to respond.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: So something Josh is so good at because he's a
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: born secure He's so good at it. He really a
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: born secure. I can think about the moments that you know,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: we've had where we've either had a disagreement or I
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: can get pretty spicy, but he really really thinks before
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: he speaks, and not just when we're in an argument
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: or confrontation. Josh really thinks before he speaks always. It
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: was one thing that really attracted me to him because
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: it made him like somewhat mysterious, but it also made
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: him someone who I could just tell was really confident
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: and who he was right.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And so I tell people, you know, if they're taking
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: just the psychological approach to metacognition. Again, you can talk
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: yourself on the ledge or off the ledge, so you
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: can really tell yourself, I'm okay, I'm confident and capable
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: of handling this situation. This isn't the end of the world.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: It's just a disagreement, or it's just a bad moment.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: It didn't feel great, I don't love it. How do
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I want to handle it?
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Right?
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Instead of flying off the handle with Oh, my gosh,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: they're so rude. There's such a jerk, They're so inconsiderate.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: This isn't fair. Why did they do that?
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: You must not let the balls.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're in the trigger cycle. You're immediately in the
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: trigger cycle when your thoughts confirm what your subconscious is
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: trying to tell you through the feeling in the body.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: If your thoughts confirm that boom, you're in the trigger cycle.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: It's too late, and there's not only the snowba effict,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: but then there's the rippling effect, right, because then once
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: it's over, you feel guilt, you feel shame, you want
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: to come back and apologize. When if you just pause
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: and do what securely attached people do, it's actually very empowering, empowering, right,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: You feel very empowered.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Afterwards securely attached people or they get quiet.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and then it brings you and your partner
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: closer together. It creates this level of intimacy too. When
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: you both feel that empowerment, you know to come together
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and really talk through it.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Right, And it's important not to mistake the quiet response
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: for an avoidant response, because when quiet goes on for
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: a long, long, long time, we've got an avoidant response.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: But when we have a moment of quiet, a lot
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: of times what secure people doing is they're internally deliberating, right,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: They're going, is this first of all something that is
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: worth is worth it?
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Because we have to pick our battles. Secondly, is my
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: response to this, Are my thoughts about this really truthful
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: and productive in that situation? Or do I need to
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: calm heck down? Yeah? Per second, right, don't need to
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: take a step back and calm down.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: But because the trigger cycle happens so fast and people
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: don't know how and when to interrupt it, and they
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: don't have the tools that they've used enough to become automatic,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: they're just launching.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Their trigger response is automatic.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Their trigger response is automatic. So you have to dismantle
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: the cycle at the three levels of the human experience.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: So there's only three components to the entire human experience thoughts, emotion,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: and behavior. What else is there in the human experience?
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: There's there?
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, That's all a human being and bodies is their thoughts,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: their emotion, and their behavior. There's nothing else. And so
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: when we dismantle the trigger cycle, we have tools at
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: each level, the thought level, the level of emotion, and
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: then the level of behavior. But the tools at the
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: level of thought and the level of the motion of
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: emotion are the capacity builders that allow you to behave
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: intentionally because a lot of what other coaches do is
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: they just teach people, oh, this is how you should
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: respond to your partner. Well that's great, but if they're
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: launched into a trigger response, that's trauma. They're not gonna
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: remember to say that, or it's not gonna come, it's
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: gonna be They're gonna white knuckle through it at best. Yeah, right,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: So I always talk about we have to build capacity,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: and building capacity to execute secure behaviors is what I
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: do with people.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: So if that's what you need in your life, which
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: I say everyone needs that in their life, go see
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: doctor Hensley at her website, the dain Dycoder dot com.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Check out all of her services there. She has groups
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: in September, Yes, yes, we'll have those posted, so check
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: out her hybrid group program, check out her one on ones,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: check out coach Elizabeth who is also wonderful who also
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: do yeah, who also does one on ones and couples coaching.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, if you are loving and enjoying
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: this content, please continue to tune in weekly episode every
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Tuesday morning drops at five am, So go check us
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: out on all platforms, and until next time, peace, love,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: and perspective.