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Artemis 2 Progress, Iron Bars in Space & Life’s Deadly Origins | Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights... · Space News Today

• 0:00
  Hi there. Thanks for joining us again.
• 0:02
  This is Space Nuts, where we talk
• 0:04
  astronomy and space science every week,
• 0:06
  twice a week, in fact. On today's
• 0:09
  episode, we're going to look at the
• 0:11
  progress of Arteimus 2. There's an
• 0:13
  update for you, and it's good news. Uh,
• 0:16
  this is a weird story. An iron bar seen
• 0:19
  in space. And no, it is not a runaway
• 0:21
  spanner from the International Space
• 0:23
  Station, although that does happen. and
• 0:26
  something deadly that could be important
• 0:28
  in the origin of life. We'll find out
• 0:31
  about that on this episode of Space
• 0:33
  Nuts.
• 0:34
  >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
• 0:39
  Ignition sequence start.
• 0:41
  >> Space Nuts.
• 0:42
  >> 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
• 0:47
  >> Space Nuts.
• 0:48
  >> Astronauts report. It feels good. Back
• 0:51
  for more with stories galore is
• 0:53
  Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at
• 0:55
  large. Hello, Fred.
• 0:57
  >> Good morning, Andrew. Or good good
• 1:00
  whatever part of the day it is when
• 1:01
  you're listening to this.
• 1:03
  >> Yes. It's difficult dealing with a
• 1:05
  global audience, isn't it? Because you
• 1:06
  just don't know.
• 1:07
  >> You just don't know what time it is
• 1:09
  wherever.
• 1:10
  >> But uh they know what time it is here.
• 1:13
  >> Well, it's Eastern summertime is what it
• 1:16
  is. And uh we are approaching the
• 1:19
  hottest time of the year in this part of
• 1:22
  the world. And I've been looking at the
• 1:24
  forecast, Fred, cuz uh right now it's
• 1:26
  not too bad. You know, low low to mid30s
• 1:30
  uh Celsius, which some people would be
• 1:32
  horrified by, but for us that's pretty
• 1:34
  normal. But next week,
• 1:37
  we are expected to hit a string of 40
• 1:41
  plus temperatures peaking at 45.
• 1:44
  45
• 1:46
  which is uh I for those who don't use
• 1:48
  the metric system that is 113 degrees
• 1:52
  Fahrenheit.
• 1:53
  So that's um that's what's coming up for
• 1:56
  us. I mean some people will hear this
• 1:58
  and it will already have happened and we
• 1:59
  won't be there next week and they'll
• 2:00
  wonder why. Well, that's the answer.
• 2:02
  We're just going to burn. We are burn.
• 2:06
  >> Uh yeah, horrific. It's been horrific.
• 2:08
  We had a massive storm here the other
• 2:10
  day and it uh ripped through the the
• 2:12
  city. I actually looked at it on the
• 2:14
  radar and it was only a really small
• 2:16
  cell,
• 2:17
  >> but gee, it was intense. It absolutely
• 2:20
  devastated the golf course. We lost a
• 2:22
  lot of trees and branches. Uh, but it
• 2:24
  happened all over town. So, yeah, we've
• 2:27
  had some uh pretty radical weather of
• 2:29
  late and now we're going to hit a heat
• 2:30
  wave and I don't I think we've got like
• 2:32
  six or seven days in a row at least over
• 2:36
  the old 100 Fahrenheit.
• 2:39
  So,
• 2:40
  >> there you go.
• 2:41
  >> Looking forward to that.
• 2:43
  Yes, I'm sure you are. It's a bit more
• 2:44
  temperate here on the coast, but uh we
• 2:46
  did have a day weight last Saturday
• 2:49
  where it it was 43 was the highest I I
• 2:52
  saw when I was out and about and it's
• 2:54
  been quite a few years quite a few years
• 2:56
  since we had a 45 here, but I do
• 2:58
  remember one some years ago and it Yeah,
• 3:01
  it was horrible. They actually forecast
• 3:03
  47 or 48 that day and it didn't get
• 3:05
  there thankfully.
• 3:07
  >> But um hopefully it won't do it again
• 3:09
  this year. But u it's been a long time
• 3:12
  since we've had temperatures like this.
• 3:14
  Um you
• 3:16
  for a few years in a row we didn't even
• 3:17
  make 40.
• 3:19
  But um yeah, we're we're getting at
• 3:20
  least four in a row next week.
• 3:24
  >> Anyway, um Oh, and the other thing
• 3:26
  that's been really exciting this week uh
• 3:28
  is um the auroral activity in you saw
• 3:33
  anything?
• 3:34
  >> No, I went out last night and didn't see
• 3:36
  anything. there's too much light and I I
• 3:38
  thought, "Oh, well, I go out of town."
• 3:40
  Uh, yeah. How far do I go? Where do I go
• 3:44
  to get a perch because it's pretty flat
• 3:46
  out here. Um, but I didn't see anything.
• 3:49
  There was one photo I took where it may
• 3:52
  there was a little bit of a purple sheen
• 3:54
  in the distance, maybe. I don't know.
• 3:59
  >> Last night, the night before was better.
• 4:02
  It was right.
• 4:03
  >> This morning, of course, I wake up to
• 4:05
  all these amazing photos that people
• 4:06
  have taken and they saw them as far
• 4:09
  north as southern Queensland. So,
• 4:11
  >> yeah, that's right.
• 4:12
  >> It's been a very intense solar storm
• 4:14
  that's um that's caused all this. But it
• 4:17
  looks like I missed the boat again,
• 4:18
  Fred.
• 4:20
  >> It's got to come with us to the Arctic
• 4:22
  sometime.
• 4:22
  >> Ah, look. Yeah. The other thing I saw
• 4:26
  this morning um was there's a um a trip
• 4:30
  to the Arctic this year to watch the
• 4:32
  solar eclipse. That'll be a big one. I
• 4:35
  think that's in um August.
• 4:37
  Is it? Or was that last year?
• 4:40
  >> Um no. Um there is I thought it was the
• 4:45
  Antarctic.
• 4:46
  >> Oh, it might be.
• 4:46
  >> Just kissed. Yeah, I think that's
• 4:49
  probably it. Yeah.
• 4:50
  >> Uh there's there is the there is an
• 4:53
  eclipse in August. It's the 12th of
• 4:54
  August. We'll be watching that from uh
• 4:57
  northern Spain.
• 4:58
  >> Um so we're taking one of M's tour
• 5:01
  groups up there to see the eclipse.
• 5:03
  >> Well, that's the one they were talking
• 5:04
  about.
• 5:04
  >> So that
• 5:06
  >> Yeah, I think the I think the one you're
• 5:07
  talking about was Antarctica and it's
• 5:09
  not the same eclipse. Anyway, never
• 5:11
  mind.
• 5:12
  >> Yeah, I can see the one the one I was
• 5:14
  thinking of is the one you're going to
• 5:16
  see in
• 5:17
  >> Okay. All right. Okay. might Yeah, might
• 5:20
  start in the Arctic.
• 5:21
  >> Yeah, it's crossing all the places we
• 5:23
  were visiting
• 5:25
  last year. So, we're all we're a year
• 5:27
  too early.
• 5:29
  Never mind.
• 5:30
  >> Always ahead of always ahead of the
• 5:32
  game. But
• 5:33
  >> yes, always get through Dodger before
• 5:34
  the disaster. That's what that's their
• 5:36
  philosophy.
• 5:38
  >> Um we've got a bit to get through. So,
• 5:40
  we'll we'll start with um this exciting
• 5:43
  news and that is an update on the
• 5:45
  Arteimus 2 mission. Now, we only
• 5:47
  mentioned that a week or so ago, uh that
• 5:50
  it was one of the big things happening
• 5:52
  in 2026. Uh it's starting to happen.
• 5:55
  They've started moving stuff.
• 5:57
  That That's right. Uh so um as we speak
• 6:02
  the uh Arteimus 2 stack, if that's what
• 6:06
  you call it, with the uh space launch
• 6:08
  system and its two solid rocket boosters
• 6:10
  and the uh service module, the the I
• 6:14
  nearly said Apollo there, the Orion
• 6:16
  capsule on top, uh is sitting on
• 6:20
  launchpad 39B, uh which is a very famous
• 6:24
  part of the launch facility at um at
• 6:27
  Cape Canaveral.
• 6:28
  So uh it yes it's made its journey from
• 6:31
  the uh vehicle assembly building uh to
• 6:35
  launchpad 39B
• 6:37
  which if I remember rightly is 6
• 6:39
  kilometers and it took 12 hours to do
• 6:41
  it.
• 6:42
  >> So half a kilometer per hour um uh is
• 6:46
  that right? Yes, that's right.
• 6:48
  >> Yeah, I think it's like 082 of a mile
• 6:51
  per hour or something like that.
• 6:52
  >> Yes, that's what I saw too. Um I think
• 6:56
  the when you average it out it it comes
• 6:58
  to half a kilometer an hour but I think
• 7:00
  it's a little bit more than that uh in
• 7:02
  terms of um you know the the maximum
• 7:04
  speed when it accelerated up to full
• 7:07
  speed 82 miles per hour. Uh so that is
• 7:10
  the start of the journey to the moon uh
• 7:12
  which is really quite nice. Um and
• 7:15
  Artimus 2 yes the mission uh will uh we
• 7:18
  hope uh actually launch within the next
• 7:22
  few months. What we do know is that
• 7:25
  there is to be um a wet uh what's what's
• 7:30
  called a a wet um test. Is that the
• 7:34
  right word? Uh a wet dress rehearsal.
• 7:37
  That's that's the correct term. Uh where
• 7:39
  it's fully fueled up uh and basically uh
• 7:44
  under goes a countdown, a dummy
• 7:45
  countdown. Uh everything as if you were
• 7:48
  about to launch, but you don't launch.
• 7:50
  Uh, and we're told that is not going to
• 7:53
  happen any later than basically next
• 7:55
  week our time or the week after next.
• 7:57
  Uh, which is February the 2nd is the
• 8:01
  date that we've got. So, um, that will
• 8:04
  be exciting to see how that how that
• 8:06
  goes, whether everything goes flawlessly
• 8:09
  or whether they find a gotcha and have
• 8:12
  to wheel it back to the vehicle assembly
• 8:13
  building which has happened.
• 8:14
  >> That's happened before, hasn't it?
• 8:16
  >> Yeah, it's it did with Arteimus one. In
• 8:18
  fact, I think it happened two or three
• 8:20
  times, didn't it? If I remember rightly,
• 8:23
  uh because they've got to get this right
• 8:24
  and they've got to, you know, it's got
• 8:25
  to be right and it will be. Uh is the
• 8:28
  bottom line. Yeah.
• 8:29
  >> Yes, indeed. But it's exciting. Um I
• 8:32
  think it has been delayed. It was
• 8:33
  supposed to go last year, wasn't it?
• 8:36
  >> Uh that's correct. Yes. Uh indeed,
• 8:38
  that's true. It's I mean that you know
• 8:41
  the whole project has uh suffered
• 8:43
  delays. Uh there is one bit of good news
• 8:47
  though which has come out of
• 8:50
  uh Congress. I think I should get my
• 8:53
  terms right. But the but the NASA
• 8:55
  funding uh for next year or for this
• 8:59
  year uh seems to be uh much more secure
• 9:03
  than was previously thought. Some of the
• 9:05
  big cuts that were being planned have
• 9:07
  sort of evaporated. Uh and I think the
• 9:10
  funding level for NASA this year uh is
• 9:13
  not that much. I think it's on a par
• 9:15
  with what they received last year. Um uh
• 9:18
  notwithstanding the fact that yes, the
• 9:20
  Mars sample return mission has has still
• 9:22
  been axed from that budget, but that
• 9:24
  leaves room for some other things to be
• 9:27
  funded and no doubt there'll be further
• 9:29
  talks on how we get these canisters of
• 9:32
  uh Martian soil back from Mars before we
• 9:35
  all die.
• 9:36
  >> Yes.
• 9:37
  >> Yeah. Well, hope now let's hope somebody
• 9:41
  um riding a trail bike up there one day
• 9:43
  comes across it and goes, "Oi, what's
• 9:45
  this? What's this? Who left this here?"
• 9:48
  Um but yeah, uh it's good news. Uh and
• 9:51
  we should mention the astronauts
• 9:54
  involved, Reed Wiseman, V Glover,
• 9:57
  Christina Ko, uh and they're all from uh
• 10:02
  NASA Americans. And then you've got uh
• 10:04
  from the Canadian Space Agency, Jeremy
• 10:06
  Hansen. And uh they'll be journeying out
• 10:10
  and around and back uh over a period of
• 10:13
  10 days, which is about the same length
• 10:15
  as the average Apollo mission. Although
• 10:18
  there was one mission that only went 5
• 10:20
  days because well, they couldn't stop
• 10:23
  because they
• 10:24
  >> Yeah, that's right.
• 10:25
  >> They had a bit of
• 10:26
  >> that was another story.
• 10:28
  >> But it's true. It's reminiscent of
• 10:30
  Apollo 8. uh you know by Christmas Day,
• 10:34
  wasn't it?
• 10:35
  >> Uh Christmas Eve, I think. I can't
• 10:37
  remember.
• 10:37
  >> Something like Christmas Eve. I think it
• 10:38
  was Christmas Eve. Yeah.
• 10:40
  >> Yeah.
• 10:40
  >> 1968. Um um but but what's different
• 10:44
  though is I think their orbits around
• 10:46
  the backside of the moon will be uh at a
• 10:49
  higher distance from the lunar surface
• 10:52
  than we saw with the Apollo mission. So
• 10:55
  uh these astronauts will be uh will hold
• 10:58
  a record as being the furthest humans.
• 11:01
  the furthest that humans have been from
• 11:03
  planet Earth after at the end of their
• 11:05
  mission. So
• 11:06
  >> yeah, that record currently held by
• 11:08
  Michael Collins.
• 11:10
  >> That is correct. Yes.
• 11:11
  >> Yes. I think in fact uh there's a famous
• 11:14
  photo I think I've mentioned before that
• 11:16
  Michael Collins took which showed the
• 11:19
  moon where Neil Armstrong and Buzz
• 11:21
  Aldrin were on the surface at the time
• 11:23
  and Earth in the background and it
• 11:25
  basically said every human being that's
• 11:28
  ever existed is in this photo except
• 11:31
  one.
• 11:33
  >> I think that's great.
• 11:34
  >> That was Yeah.
• 11:36
  >> Yeah. I mean you think
• 11:38
  >> to feel lonely.
• 11:40
  >> It's pretty Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty deep
• 11:42
  when you take a photo and someone says
• 11:45
  to you, "Lady, do you realize you're the
• 11:46
  only human human being in history that's
• 11:49
  not in that photograph?"
• 11:52
  I reckon that's uh that's incredible.
• 11:54
  Yeah. Uh of course, people come back and
• 11:56
  say, "Oh, but what about the people on
• 11:57
  the other side of the planet that
• 11:58
  weren't in the picture?" Well, they were
• 11:59
  on the planet, so they were in the
• 12:01
  picture.
• 12:01
  >> Yeah, we we knew.
• 12:03
  >> We could use a bit of creative license.
• 12:04
  Sure. We
• 12:05
  >> Yes, that's right.
• 12:06
  >> That's right.
• 12:07
  >> Um we should also mention why why this
• 12:10
  mission is happening. And it's it's it's
• 12:12
  based around putting long-term humans or
• 12:17
  long a long-term human presence on the
• 12:19
  lunar surface, but the ultimate goal is
• 12:21
  to create that springboard for missions
• 12:24
  to Mars. So it it's it's part of a
• 12:28
  long-term venture, I suppose.
• 12:30
  Yeah, I think actually that you know
• 12:32
  it's got an immediacy about it that um
• 12:36
  um is makes the Mars issue
• 12:40
  uh perhaps uh not reducing its
• 12:44
  significance but um but giving us a good
• 12:48
  you know a good reason to be on the moon
• 12:50
  anyway and that's the the possible
• 12:52
  resources that are on the moon.
• 12:53
  >> Yeah. Plus, there's still a geopolitical
• 12:56
  uh aspect of this, exactly as there was
• 12:58
  in the 1960s. Um, the Americans are very
• 13:02
  keen to get there before Chinese
• 13:04
  tyonauts walk on the lunar surface,
• 13:05
  which they're certainly planning to do
• 13:08
  by 2030. That is what we hear. But
• 13:11
  you're right. Um, I mean, Arteimus 2 is
• 13:13
  a is a precursor to Arteimus 3, which is
• 13:16
  likely to be not next year, but the
• 13:17
  following year. There's still a lot of
• 13:19
  work to do on that. uh where four
• 13:21
  astronauts will land on the lunar
• 13:23
  surface. And that in a in a sense is the
• 13:26
  perhaps the opening gambit for a
• 13:28
  permanent uh or a semi-permanent human
• 13:30
  presence on Mars. And yes, you're right.
• 13:33
  Eventually that will lead to we hope uh
• 13:36
  expertise that we can gather that will
• 13:39
  take astronauts to Mars, not to colonize
• 13:42
  it, but to explore it in a in a suitably
• 13:45
  ethical way.
• 13:46
  >> You you hope not to colonize it.
• 13:49
  >> Yeah. Well, that's right.
• 13:52
  >> Okay. Um, yeah, very exciting news and
• 13:56
  hopefully all will go well with the uh
• 13:58
  with the tests. Uh, in fact, they're
• 14:00
  talking about doing it more than once if
• 14:02
  they've got time. Um, but yeah, it'll be
• 14:05
  uh it'll be and it'll it'll bring about
• 14:08
  the same level of excitement, I suppose,
• 14:11
  that we enjoyed in the 60s with the
• 14:13
  Apollo missions because you got a whole
• 14:14
  new generation that weren't around to
• 14:16
  see that. And so this is all fresh and
• 14:19
  new for them.
• 14:20
  >> I reckon that that's right.
• 14:22
  >> That will revive the uh the interest in
• 14:26
  uh space science uh as well. I suppose
• 14:29
  uh if you'd like to read all about it,
• 14:31
  you can log on to Scitec Daily, but I
• 14:34
  think you'll probably find there's
• 14:35
  plenty of news on plenty of platforms,
• 14:37
  including the NASA website. This is
• 14:40
  Space Nuts with Andrew Dunley and
• 14:41
  Professor Fred Watson.
• 14:45
  Let's take a break from the show so I
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• 16:04
  3 2 1
• 16:07
  >> Space nuts.
• 16:08
  >> Okay, Fred. Uh, this weird story has,
• 16:12
  uh, been published in a in a paper about
• 16:15
  a nebula that is demonstrating something
• 16:18
  that at this point in time is
• 16:21
  inexplicable.
• 16:22
  Uh, they know what it is,
• 16:24
  >> they don't know why it is.
• 16:26
  >> Yeah. Exactly. And so this story is
• 16:29
  about perhaps one of the most famous um
• 16:32
  celestial objects in the northern sky.
• 16:35
  Uh an object called the ring nebula. Uh
• 16:38
  because it's shaped like a ring. Uh it's
• 16:41
  in the constellation of Lyra. Uh one
• 16:43
  that um certainly I've been aware of
• 16:45
  ever since I first became interested in
• 16:47
  astronomy in the 1950s.
• 16:49
  Um it is a planetary nebula and that is
• 16:54
  a bit of a misnomer term. It was one
• 16:56
  coined by William Hershel in the early
• 16:57
  1800s because these things kind of look
• 17:00
  like planets, but they're nothing to do
• 17:02
  with planets. They're not in the solar
• 17:03
  system. They're clouds of gas. And we
• 17:05
  now know that they are the the bubbles
• 17:07
  of gas that are puffed off by uh uh
• 17:11
  giant stars in their old age. Um and we
• 17:14
  also know that the sun will go through a
• 17:16
  phase where eventually it's surrounded
• 17:17
  by a a nebula, a planetary nebula very
• 17:20
  like the ring nebula. Uh so um we know a
• 17:24
  lot about that nebula and um what's
• 17:28
  there's a sort of slightly personal
• 17:29
  aspect to this story because a uh a
• 17:32
  telescope that I worked on quite
• 17:34
  commonly in the 1990s uh the William
• 17:37
  Hershel telescope uh which uh was then
• 17:40
  operated by the UK I think it's now the
• 17:42
  UK and some other
• 17:45
  uh sorry I'm going to cancel this can't
• 17:49
  take that call don't know whether you
• 17:51
  heard Uh my phone is ringing.
• 17:54
  >> It's ringing in my my earphones. Sorry.
• 17:56
  Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. It's all right. I'll
• 17:59
  call them back shortly. Um it's uh it's
• 18:02
  a
• 18:04
  uh the telescope that uh was built in
• 18:06
  the 19 late 1980s, commissioned I think
• 18:10
  around about 1990. Uh as I said, I
• 18:13
  worked on it in the in the 1990s. A 4.2
• 18:16
  2meter telescope which is situated uh at
• 18:19
  a place called El Rock de los Machos
• 18:23
  which is the name of a peak in the
• 18:25
  island of La Palma. It's a volcanic peak
• 18:28
  uh and there is a major global
• 18:30
  observatory there. Um it's uh it's as I
• 18:34
  said 4.2 m telescope. Uh I think it's
• 18:37
  now jointly operated by a number of uh
• 18:39
  different nations. Uh it was built by
• 18:41
  the Brits uh and uh was for a while
• 18:45
  something like the third biggest
• 18:46
  telescope in the northern hemisphere I
• 18:48
  think. Um it uh uh has an instrument on
• 18:53
  it. Uh which is sort of let me guess.
• 18:55
  Let me guess.
• 18:56
  >> Descendant.
• 18:57
  >> It's a saxophone.
• 18:59
  >> Sorry couldn't help.
• 19:00
  >> It's an E flat trombone. Uh
• 19:04
  it's a it's a um an instrument which is
• 19:08
  I was going to say it's a descendant of
• 19:09
  a let me rephrase that. It is an optical
• 19:12
  instrument. Uh which is a descendant of
• 19:15
  uh something I was very deeply involved
• 19:18
  with when I was there. Um I was project
• 19:20
  scientist for a thing called a
• 19:21
  spectrograph which is um uh the device
• 19:24
  that splits up light uh and lets us see
• 19:27
  that barcode of information in the light
• 19:30
  of a star or galaxy or indeed a
• 19:32
  planetary nebula. Uh but the new version
• 19:35
  of that I we were using optical fibers
• 19:37
  uh to to look at individual objects. uh
• 19:40
  the new version uh uses optical fibers
• 19:43
  again but in such a way that you can
• 19:46
  look at an object like this nebula and
• 19:48
  for every point on the image you can get
• 19:51
  a spectrum uh and we uh it's a a
• 19:54
  technology which is known as integral
• 19:56
  field spectroscopy
• 19:58
  uh and uh they have built something
• 20:00
  called a LEU which is a large integral
• 20:03
  field unit for the weave instrument
• 20:06
  which is the WH enhanced area velocity
• 20:10
  Explorer. Uh, great stuff. And the
• 20:13
  bottom line is that the to get to the
• 20:15
  end of this long rambling story. This is
• 20:18
  a brand new instrument that is just
• 20:20
  being tested. And what better object to
• 20:23
  test it on than this lovely northern
• 20:25
  hemisphere nebula, the Ring Nebula. And
• 20:28
  so that's what they've done. a group of
• 20:31
  scientists mostly I think from the UK uh
• 20:33
  they've used the ring nebula just to
• 20:35
  make sure that the weave spectrograph
• 20:38
  works properly and does everything they
• 20:40
  want it to and they've uncovered a
• 20:42
  complete surprise uh that has blown
• 20:45
  everybody's mind because nobody
• 20:47
  understands it and that is exactly as
• 20:49
  you've said is an iron bar. Now, um,
• 20:52
  when you talk about a bar in astronomy,
• 20:54
  it's not something you prop yourself up
• 20:56
  against to, um, get over all your
• 20:59
  problems. Uh, although you can do that
• 21:01
  if you want. Uh, it's it's uh, usually
• 21:05
  it's a
• 21:06
  a structure, a linear structure. Um,
• 21:09
  often made of stars. Uh, galaxies often
• 21:12
  have a bar across the middle. We call
• 21:14
  them barred spiral galaxies. And that
• 21:16
  bar is made of stars which are
• 21:18
  circulating in a in a very elliptical
• 21:22
  orbit around the center of the galaxy.
• 21:24
  So it looks like a essentially a solid
• 21:27
  bar of material. It's actually made of
• 21:29
  stars. So the bar in the ring ring
• 21:32
  nebula is not made of stars. It's made
• 21:34
  of gas. Uh but what is interesting is
• 21:38
  that that gas is highly ionized. That
• 21:41
  means energized uh version of iron. So
• 21:45
  this is a plasma of iron atoms. Uh and
• 21:50
  um one of the interesting comments that
• 21:52
  comes out of the the data um that's been
• 21:55
  released on this on this uh piece of
• 21:58
  research is that the total mass of the
• 22:00
  iron that's in that bar is comparable to
• 22:04
  the mass of Mars. Uh that is quite
• 22:07
  significant. Uh and I love this comment.
• 22:09
  its length is about equal to 500 times
• 22:12
  the orbit of Pluto around the sun. Uh
• 22:15
  and so it's, you know, if you imagine
• 22:17
  Pluto's orbit, multiply it by 500 times
• 22:20
  and then take its diameter, that's how
• 22:21
  big this iron bar is. Uh so it's not an
• 22:24
  iron bar in the sense that something you
• 22:26
  can pick up and hit somebody on the head
• 22:28
  with if you're that way inclined, and
• 22:30
  I'm certainly not. uh uh but it's an
• 22:33
  iron bar in the sense of a barred
• 22:35
  structure in what is completely normally
• 22:39
  expected to be quite spherically
• 22:41
  symmetrical because this is a bubble of
• 22:43
  material. The ring nebula is a bubble of
• 22:45
  gas and yet here in the middle of it is
• 22:48
  this linear feature a bar uh of made of
• 22:52
  highly ionized iron atoms. So as you
• 22:55
  said at the beginning Andrew the big
• 22:57
  question now is where did it come from?
• 22:59
  >> Yeah. What? Why is it there? What what
• 23:02
  happened to create that? Because it's it
• 23:04
  sounds like it's it's unique. There's
• 23:06
  nothing else like it yet bound.
• 23:08
  >> Not that we know of. That's right. But
• 23:10
  nobody's looked for a lion in Yeah. Uh
• 23:12
  in the center of these these objects. So
• 23:16
  um I think uh there is, you know, a a
• 23:21
  sort of well as the as the article we
• 23:25
  might quote because this is from our old
• 23:27
  friend Universe Today. It's by Evan
• 23:29
  Goff. Uh the um the bottom line is that
• 23:36
  uh there are two uh let me let me let me
• 23:38
  just read because this is uh this is
• 23:40
  quite nicely put. There are two broad
• 23:42
  exploration explanations for this iron
• 23:44
  bar. One is that it reveals something
• 23:46
  new about how the central star and
• 23:48
  that's the star that it eventually gave
• 23:50
  rise to the nebula. How the central star
• 23:53
  ejected its material. Uh the other is
• 23:55
  that the bar, the iron bar is the
• 23:58
  remnant of a planet that was vaporized
• 24:01
  and destroyed by the star as it expanded
• 24:03
  into a red giant. That's a really really
• 24:06
  interesting uh conjecture that what
• 24:09
  we're seeing is perhaps the um the
• 24:11
  remnant that the vaporized core of a
• 24:16
  planet, perhaps a rocky planet that was
• 24:18
  in orbit around the star uh when it
• 24:20
  turned into a red giant. uh it was
• 24:23
  vaporized and what we are left with is
• 24:25
  this streak of uh highly ionized gas uh
• 24:30
  highly energized gas uh made of iron
• 24:33
  across the middle of the nebula. Really
• 24:35
  really interesting uh uh really
• 24:38
  interesting um results there.
• 24:40
  >> Yeah, absolutely. And and the pictures
• 24:42
  that they've gathered are spectacular.
• 24:45
  It looks amazing.
• 24:46
  >> Yeah. Yeah, it does. It's quite
• 24:48
  extraordinary. Uh there's a quote from
• 24:50
  Janet Drew who I won't say I know but
• 24:54
  I'd certainly have met her a few times
• 24:55
  back in the day. Uh she's one of the
• 24:57
  studies co-authors uh University College
• 25:00
  London uh said says we this is in a
• 25:04
  press release we definitely need to know
• 25:06
  more particularly whether any other
• 25:08
  chemical elements coexist with the newly
• 25:10
  detected iron as this would probably
• 25:13
  tell us the right class of model to
• 25:15
  pursue. In other words, um whether it
• 25:18
  was ejected from the star or a vaporized
• 25:20
  planet. Uh right now we're missing this
• 25:22
  important information. So, yep. Really
• 25:24
  um really interesting stuff.
• 25:26
  >> Yeah. And now that they've found it,
• 25:28
  they know what to look for and they may
• 25:30
  well find that this has happened quite a
• 25:34
  few times that you might even have one
• 25:35
  in your closet. You never know.
• 25:38
  What's what uh is interesting to me and
• 25:41
  there's a it's a tenuous link here but
• 25:44
  um perhaps the most famous planetary
• 25:46
  nebula in the southern hemisphere and
• 25:48
  it's one that is very familiar. It's
• 25:50
  called the Helix Nebula. Beautiful.
• 25:53
  Again, a ring-like structure. Uh we just
• 25:57
  uh yesterday I think or the day before
• 25:59
  received some new images of that from
• 26:01
  the James Webb uh space telescope which
• 26:04
  are absolutely staggering. uh they show
• 26:07
  structure on the sort of inner edge of
• 26:10
  this bubble of gas which is what the
• 26:12
  Helix Nebula is as well. Uh which is
• 26:16
  it's it's it's unfathomable almost. What
• 26:19
  we're seeing is little bubbles of gas
• 26:21
  being stretched out into these these
• 26:23
  myriad of fingers. It almost looks like
• 26:25
  a grassy paddock. It is quite
• 26:27
  extraordinary. It's well worth a look if
• 26:28
  you can find it, Andrew. Uh and I
• 26:31
  encourage our listeners and viewers to
• 26:33
  look for the James Webb telescope image
• 26:35
  of the ring of the Helix Nebula uh just
• 26:38
  released.
• 26:39
  >> Yeah.
• 26:40
  >> Keep an eye on that. But if you uh want
• 26:42
  to read about this particular iron bar
• 26:44
  discovery, you can read it uh on what is
• 26:48
  uh the universe today.com website or you
• 26:50
  can go to the paper which was published
• 26:53
  in the
• 26:55
  Royal Astronomical Society monthly
• 26:57
  notices of you could say it the other
• 27:00
  way around and you'd be right. Uh yeah.
• 27:02
  Um,
• 27:04
  but the pictures are spectacular in
• 27:06
  themselves, but the mystery itself is uh
• 27:08
  is quite um quite extraordinary. You're
• 27:11
  listening to Space Nuts with Andrew
• 27:13
  Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.
• 27:19
  >> Okay, we checked all four systems and
• 27:21
  being with
• 27:22
  >> Space Nuts.
• 27:23
  >> Our final yarn, Fred, uh takes us into
• 27:27
  uh a bit of a mystery land. um something
• 27:30
  deadly that could be important in the
• 27:32
  origin of life. Uh and you know if you
• 27:35
  would ask people what is deadly to human
• 27:38
  life and life in general um you would
• 27:41
  come up with a few well-known um things
• 27:46
  including hydrogen cyanide and and that
• 27:49
  is the topic of the discussion.
• 27:52
  >> Yeah, that's right. Um now I pre I
• 27:55
  preface this discussion with something
• 27:56
  that you and all our listeners know
• 27:58
  already and that is that I'm no chemist
• 28:00
  and certainly no um biochemist but um
• 28:04
  this is a yeah it's a really interesting
• 28:07
  uh study um that I think comes from
• 28:10
  Swedish uh Swedish scientists uh and
• 28:15
  it's it's about
• 28:18
  hydro hydrogen cyanide as a molecule HCN
• 28:22
  it's a chemical ical formula um which we
• 28:25
  know occurs uh commonly in space. It's
• 28:28
  one of these molecules that seems to be
• 28:30
  readily formed um in the co uh the
• 28:33
  coldness of space. So we find it for
• 28:36
  example in comets um and that's one of
• 28:39
  the reasons why excuse me there was
• 28:41
  panic in 1910 um when it was known that
• 28:44
  there was hydrogen cyanide in the tail
• 28:47
  of comet Halley and the earth was going
• 28:49
  to pass through the tail and so um I
• 28:52
  think all these quack you know quack
• 28:55
  chemists
• 28:56
  made up their their potions to stop you
• 28:59
  being poisoned by hydrogen cyanide fact
• 29:01
  that it's you know very very rarified
• 29:04
  gas wasn't something that impinged on
• 29:06
  their on their consciousness. They just
• 29:08
  made money out of it. Anyway, it's in
• 29:11
  comets. Uh it's in clouds of
• 29:14
  interstellar gas and dust. Uh it's also
• 29:17
  present in large amounts actually as an
• 29:19
  ice in the atmosphere of Titan, Saturn's
• 29:23
  moon, Titan.
• 29:24
  >> Uh and um it's um not only on the
• 29:28
  atmosphere, but it condenses out on
• 29:30
  deposits onto the surface as well. And
• 29:33
  so the basically the
• 29:36
  >> Don't lick the rocks, kids.
• 29:37
  >> Don't lick the rocks. Don't lick the
• 29:39
  rocks. In
• 29:39
  >> fact, don't and don't breathe the
• 29:41
  atmosphere.
• 29:44
  >> Uh which you wouldn't want to anyway um
• 29:46
  because it's pretty horrible. But um the
• 29:48
  so so that has led scientists to look
• 29:52
  more closely at the chemistry uh and
• 29:56
  sort of physics as well of of hydrogen
• 30:00
  cyanide. And in particular, what they've
• 30:03
  found is that it has essentially
• 30:07
  electric electrostatic properties that
• 30:11
  um may encourage
• 30:14
  uh it to assist with the formation of
• 30:18
  other molecules. It's apparently got
• 30:20
  really strong electric fields at the
• 30:24
  ends of a a solid crystal of hydrogen
• 30:28
  cyanide. Um, and what they're saying is
• 30:31
  that that might be a property that would
• 30:34
  allow this deadly chemical nevertheless
• 30:38
  to assist in the, you know, the the
• 30:42
  building up of uh prebiotic molecules,
• 30:46
  the the organic molecules that we think
• 30:49
  um are basically the uh the building
• 30:53
  blocks of life. M
• 30:55
  >> um
• 30:57
  it's so so it's um yeah it's really uh a
• 31:02
  really interesting uh piece of work that
• 31:06
  they are uh that these these authors
• 31:09
  have highlighted that maybe uh this this
• 31:13
  thing that to us is anathema hydrogen
• 31:15
  cyanoid maybe it's the reason why we're
• 31:18
  here uh because of reactions that might
• 31:20
  have taken place and of course that has
• 31:23
  um some interesting uh implications for
• 31:26
  Titan if it's common place on Titan.
• 31:29
  Titan's a world that we think could
• 31:32
  harbor life uh maybe in its uh under ice
• 31:37
  oceans. It's an ice world like many of
• 31:39
  the other uh satellites of the outer
• 31:40
  planets, but also has these seas and
• 31:43
  lakes of liquid ethane and methane. Um,
• 31:46
  you know, maybe there there are
• 31:48
  reactions going on in there that involve
• 31:51
  hydrogen cyanide that might have created
• 31:54
  uh uh organisms that use these um
• 31:57
  basically these uh liqufied natural
• 32:00
  gases, which is what they are as their
• 32:03
  working fluid. Who knows? Well, and and
• 32:06
  that's something we've talked about
• 32:07
  before because we, you know, when you we
• 32:09
  think of life, we we look at ourselves,
• 32:11
  carbon based life forms that breathe
• 32:13
  oxygen and, you know, and have a heavy
• 32:17
  reliance on water, but why does it just
• 32:20
  have to be that? Why why can't life
• 32:24
  develop in an environment that we would
• 32:26
  find toxic and well, basically hostile?
• 32:31
  But if you can create the catalyst for
• 32:34
  life on a world like Titan, why couldn't
• 32:36
  it develop independently as a a totally
• 32:39
  different life form?
• 32:40
  >> Something quite different. That's right.
• 32:42
  And um you know, that raises the
• 32:43
  question, how do you recognize that it's
• 32:45
  actually life if it's so different from
• 32:48
  from our our living organisms, too?
• 32:51
  >> Well, we don't really have a proper
• 32:53
  definition of what life is.
• 32:54
  >> No. No. And you you know some people
• 32:58
  argue that a virus isn't a life form.
• 33:02
  >> Yeah.
• 33:03
  >> So is is a is a virus life?
• 33:07
  >> I've seen that argument tossed around a
• 33:09
  few times. So what debate rages?
• 33:14
  >> Yeah. A definition that I think NASA
• 33:16
  uses from time to time is a living
• 33:18
  organism is a a self- sustaining,
• 33:22
  selfreplicating
• 33:24
  organism capable of Darwinian evolution.
• 33:27
  And and I actually think a virus would
• 33:29
  satisfy that.
• 33:30
  >> I I think it would.
• 33:32
  >> And it does it fast.
• 33:34
  >> Yeah. And it does. And I think I've got
• 33:35
  one at the moment, which is why I feel
• 33:37
  so crooked these days.
• 33:38
  >> Yeah.
• 33:40
  >> Yeah. They hang on, don't they?
• 33:41
  >> They do. Well, you know that that's
• 33:43
  that's the natural order, isn't it? In
• 33:46
  the the the fight for continuity. That's
• 33:48
  what a virus does.
• 33:50
  >> Yeah. All right. Uh very interesting
• 33:52
  story and uh don't go to the chemist
• 33:56
  asking for hydrogen cyanide because you
• 33:58
  want to, you know, revive your cat or
• 34:00
  something. Don't. It doesn't work
• 34:03
  >> because you know it's got um interesting
• 34:05
  electrical properties. It would be a
• 34:07
  good excuse, wouldn't it?
• 34:08
  >> Oh, yes. Well, we'll sell you some if
• 34:10
  that's the case. Yes.
• 34:11
  >> Yes. Why not? Yeah. I don't think you
• 34:14
  could get it very easily, could you?
• 34:16
  >> I don't know how you'd get I don't want
• 34:18
  any, but I don't know how you get it.
• 34:20
  >> You'd have to go to an illegal arms
• 34:22
  dealer or something, I think. But u Yes.
• 34:25
  >> Anyway, uh if you want to read about
• 34:26
  that, it's uh in the universetoday.com
• 34:31
  website. Uh and I think there's probably
• 34:33
  a paper that I have overlooked where
• 34:36
  it's been published, but um uh or you
• 34:39
  could go to the acs.org org website. Uh,
• 34:43
  ACS Central Science is where you'll find
• 34:45
  the article. Um, we're just about done,
• 34:49
  Fred. Thank you very much.
• 34:52
  >> You're welcome, Andrew. And, uh, thank
• 34:53
  you for having me. Um, as always, it's a
• 34:56
  pleasure.
• 34:56
  >> It It is good fun. We really enjoy
• 34:58
  ourselves and hopefully the audience
• 35:00
  does too. They've been sticking with us
• 35:01
  for a good many years now, which we
• 35:04
  greatly appreciate. And between shows,
• 35:06
  don't forget to visit us on social
• 35:07
  media, Facebook, Instagram. we might pop
• 35:10
  up in other places that I'm unaware of.
• 35:13
  I don't know. We'll have to um we'll
• 35:15
  have to go and lean on an iron bar and
• 35:16
  have a few drinks and figure it out. And
• 35:19
  um on our website, you can also uh look
• 35:22
  around at the shop or the astronomy
• 35:25
  daily news feed if you want to sign up
• 35:26
  for that. There's plenty to do on on the
• 35:28
  website, so check it out. Uh and thanks
• 35:31
  to Hugh in the studio who couldn't be
• 35:32
  with us today. We were talking about the
• 35:34
  weather earlier, Fred. And um I don't
• 35:36
  know if you know this, but Hugh's from
• 35:38
  New Zealand. And so once the temperature
• 35:39
  hits 6°, it's way too hot for him to go
• 35:42
  outside. So that's why he can't be with
• 35:44
  us today. And from me, Andrew Dunley,
• 35:46
  thanks for your company. We'll catch you
• 35:48
  on the next episode of Space Nuts.
• 35:50
  Bye-bye.
• 35:51
  >> Space Nuts.
• 35:52
  >> You'll be listening to the Space Nuts
• 35:54
  podcast
• 35:57
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• 36:00
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• 36:02
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• 36:08
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