Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #355 From the Doctor's Desk

Transcript

#355 From the Doctor's Desk · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
0:09
Speaker 2: once answers.
0:10
Speaker 1: Now here's what I know at the moment. Our older
0:13
Speaker 1: teens in particular are missing out on all of the
0:15
Speaker 1: significant life events that they would typically be involved in.
0:18
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
0:21
Speaker 1: and dad, missus Happy Families. We have got two days
0:25
Speaker 1: two days until the school holidays arrive on the eastern
0:29
Speaker 1: seaboard all of Queensland, New South Wales the Act Victoria
0:33
Speaker 1: on school holidays starting tomorrow afternoon. Are you excited for it?
0:38
Speaker 2: I might just be getting a little bit excited. Okay,
0:41
Speaker 2: I have been waiting to see what our government is
0:44
Speaker 2: going to do, but I think we actually might make
0:47
Speaker 2: it to the holidays unscathed.
0:48
Speaker 1: This might be the first time in what feels like
0:51
Speaker 1: more than a year since well, hopefully there won't be
0:56
Speaker 1: a lockdown. Hopefully Brisbane and Queensland are going to escape.
0:59
Speaker 1: For those of you who are in New South Wales,
1:00
Speaker 1: the Act Victoria and New Zealand school holiday is probably
1:04
Speaker 1: not quite what you are hoping because lockdowns continue to continue.
1:10
Speaker 1: But are we are justin and Kylie Coulson, the founders
1:12
Speaker 1: of happy Families dot com dot are your parents to
1:14
Speaker 1: six children. I'm the author of six books about raising
1:16
Speaker 1: happy families. And this is the Happy Families Podcast Kylie.
1:20
Speaker 1: Every month or so, you allow me to geek out,
1:23
Speaker 1: get a little bit excited, dive into the latest research
1:26
Speaker 1: from all around the world to look at what's happening
1:28
Speaker 1: in families and what we can take from science implement
1:31
Speaker 1: in our homes to make our families flourish.
1:34
Speaker 2: And today's the day you're saying that, like, I have
1:37
Speaker 2: a choice.
1:40
Speaker 1: That was my that was my wicked laughing. So let's
1:43
Speaker 1: get into it. We've got we've got three studies. You know,
1:47
Speaker 1: should we do the should I do the wicked witch? Laugh?
1:49
Speaker 1: I just go for it. Okay, this is the kids
1:51
Speaker 1: love this one. You're ready, Yes, okay, I'm back. Let's
1:57
Speaker 1: do this.
1:57
Speaker 2: Sit Downald Duck.
1:58
Speaker 1: You want me to come on, we're about to get
2:01
Speaker 1: academic and science and you want me to do Donald Duck?
2:05
Speaker 1: Why do you want me to? Donald? Do it? Did
2:11
Speaker 1: you like that? The kids are into me all the time? Wonderful?
2:18
Speaker 1: All right? That is I don't know where that came from,
2:21
Speaker 1: and I'm not.
2:22
Speaker 2: Sure Donald Duck, doctor.
2:24
Speaker 1: Doctor, Donald, I know, all right, So let's talk science
2:27
Speaker 1: because I need to recover from what you've just put
2:29
Speaker 1: me through.
2:31
Speaker 2: Look, there had to be something and it filled me.
2:34
Speaker 1: If that did it for you, you are very easily pleased.
2:37
Speaker 1: Let's have a look at the latest science. So we're
2:40
Speaker 1: going to talk about three different studies that have come
2:41
Speaker 1: out in the last few weeks that have really caught
2:43
Speaker 1: my eye. One of them is a what we call
2:45
Speaker 1: a meta analysis, that is a study of a whole
2:47
Speaker 1: lot of studies. This is looking at the global prevalence
2:50
Speaker 1: of depressive and anxiety symptoms in children and adolescents during
2:54
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen from around the world. Second one that we're
2:57
Speaker 1: going to look at considers ADHD and being the youngest
3:02
Speaker 1: in the class and how that seems to relate to
3:05
Speaker 1: long term outcomes in kids. And the third one, I'm
3:09
Speaker 1: excited to talk about this one very much, talking about
3:12
Speaker 1: the importance of enjoying school and what that does for kids' grades. So, Kylie,
3:16
Speaker 1: where should we start? Are you happy to go in
3:17
Speaker 1: that order? Do you want to mix it up?
3:19
Speaker 2: Always in the beginning, that's the best place to start.
3:21
Speaker 1: Okay, let's start at the beginning. This one is looking.
3:24
Speaker 1: Now for the last couple of weeks, we've been going really,
3:27
Speaker 1: really deep on what we can do about the reality
3:31
Speaker 1: that study after study after study has pointed to COVID
3:34
Speaker 1: nineteen and specifically lockdowns and government restrictions. There's no way
3:41
Speaker 1: to I've got to be a sledgehammer about this. An
3:44
Speaker 1: absolutely devastating impact on the mental health of our communities,
3:49
Speaker 1: and our children are not escaping this. In fact, they're
3:51
Speaker 1: being significantly affected. This study meta analysis, so we're looking
3:56
Speaker 1: at twenty nine studies nearly eighty one thousand young people.
4:01
Speaker 2: So what did they actually find in relation to depression
4:03
Speaker 2: and anxiety in our children?
4:05
Speaker 1: Twenty five point two percent of children and teens were
4:10
Speaker 1: clinically evaluated as having depression, and twenty point five percent
4:17
Speaker 1: of children and adolescents were clinically evaluated as having anxiety.
4:22
Speaker 1: What about one in four yeah, one in four to
4:25
Speaker 1: one and five. Now in Australia, we've got data that
4:28
Speaker 1: suggests that that's pretty much bang on, maybe even here
4:30
Speaker 1: in Australia a little bit higher. And that's because again
4:33
Speaker 1: the lockdowns, particularly for Victoria, but increasingly now for New
4:37
Speaker 1: South Wales and the Act, the lockdowns are having an
4:40
Speaker 1: undeniable impact on how children are coping, and the data
4:44
Speaker 1: is telling us that they're not coping well. In fact,
4:48
Speaker 1: these researchers said, the prevalence of depression and anxiety symptoms
4:52
Speaker 1: during COVID nineteen have doubled compared with pre pandemic estimates.
4:57
Speaker 1: And in Australia we know that adolescents we had about
5:01
Speaker 1: fifteen percent of them that were already pre pandemic showing
5:05
Speaker 1: up with anxiety. We're pretty confident now that that's somewhere
5:07
Speaker 1: closer to twenty five percent, maybe even getting a little
5:11
Speaker 1: harder than that. We are talking just staggering. I mean,
5:15
Speaker 1: I can't believe that we're talking about these kinds of numbers.
5:18
Speaker 1: And I think that this is a really big risk
5:20
Speaker 1: for governments to be aware of because the long term
5:24
Speaker 1: impact of this could be significant. So what comparance do well,
5:28
Speaker 1: We've talked about this extensively. If you were to go
5:31
Speaker 1: back to listen to our podcasts from last week, where
5:34
Speaker 1: we spend an entire week talking about what we can do,
5:37
Speaker 1: that would probably be the best thing. But the very
5:39
Speaker 1: brief summary, Make sure that the kids aren't retreating of
5:41
Speaker 1: their rooms too much. Make sure that they're getting outside time.
5:44
Speaker 1: Nature is fuel for the soul. Make sure that they're exercising,
5:46
Speaker 1: moving their bodies and not just slumped on the couch
5:50
Speaker 1: all day every day. Make sure that they're connecting with
5:54
Speaker 1: people that they love in whatever way you can, and
5:56
Speaker 1: if it can be face to face, that would be ideal.
5:58
Speaker 1: Just make sure that you keep it legal. They're probably
6:01
Speaker 1: the main things. If they've got an interest, ensure that
6:03
Speaker 1: they have the opportunity to pursue that interest. I could
6:06
Speaker 1: keep on going, but I think you get the picture.
6:09
Speaker 2: Do you think that things will improve once lockdowns shift
6:12
Speaker 2: and left?
6:13
Speaker 1: I like that way you said that. I don't know,
6:16
Speaker 1: and I don't think that anybody can really tell. Here's
6:20
Speaker 1: what I know at the moment. Our older teens in
6:23
Speaker 1: particular are missing out on all of the significant life
6:26
Speaker 1: events that they would typically be involved in. Lockdowns have meant.
6:29
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine being in New South Wales
6:31
Speaker 1: Act Victoria and not being able to do your end
6:33
Speaker 1: of year Year twelve exams and having the disruption there.
6:36
Speaker 1: They've missed out on formals, They've missed out on coming
6:39
Speaker 1: of age celebrations, They've missed out on birthdays, They've missed
6:41
Speaker 1: out on being able to say goodbye to their friends
6:46
Speaker 1: the way a school year should end. Now. Now, they
6:49
Speaker 1: may not have completely missed out, because we know that
6:51
Speaker 1: Andrews and Verry Chicklean are talking about changing the kid's
6:55
Speaker 1: experience and access of school, but they're certainly not having
6:58
Speaker 1: what everybody has hissed or really had with the wonderful
7:02
Speaker 1: experiences there, and there is a grieving process that's associated
7:05
Speaker 1: with that. I think that they're missing out on closure
7:09
Speaker 1: and that's a really big deal. But they're also looking
7:12
Speaker 1: at an uncertain future with no idea where this is
7:14
Speaker 1: going to go. Will they get over it? I think
7:18
Speaker 1: most of them probably will, but we really don't have
7:20
Speaker 1: an answer for it. Most children who have experienced elevated
7:25
Speaker 1: mental health symptoms, I think that for many of them
7:28
Speaker 1: it will resolve and they'll just get on with live.
7:31
Speaker 1: But there's going to be a group of children for
7:33
Speaker 1: whom that isn't the case, and they're going to be
7:36
Speaker 1: on a trajectory that I think we could probably call challenging,
7:40
Speaker 1: to say the least. And there's another group of children
7:43
Speaker 1: who already had mental health difficulties pre pandemic, and they're
7:46
Speaker 1: probably going to struggle long term because the pandemic has
7:49
Speaker 1: exacerbated and accelerated what they were experiencing.
7:52
Speaker 2: We'll look at another study after the break.
7:54
Speaker 1: It's their Happy Famili's podcast.
7:57
Speaker 2: For a happier family, Try a Happy Families membership, because
8:01
Speaker 2: a happy family doesn't just happen.
8:03
Speaker 1: Details at happyfamilies dot com dot Au.
8:07
Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
8:10
Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now. And today I'm
8:13
Speaker 2: letting you geek out. It's the Doctor's Desk. We've talked
8:16
Speaker 2: about COVID and the impact that it's having on our
8:19
Speaker 2: children with depression and anxiety numbers rising, and now we're
8:22
Speaker 2: going to talk about ADHD and our children who are
8:25
Speaker 2: young for their age.
8:27
Speaker 1: So a few weeks ago in a recent Doctor's Desk
8:30
Speaker 1: we talked about how there's a number of studies from
8:33
Speaker 1: around the world, including here in Australia, that indicate that
8:36
Speaker 1: children who are the youngest in their cohort tend to
8:39
Speaker 1: be more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD. Well some
8:43
Speaker 1: researchers from Sweden have decided to try to work out
8:47
Speaker 1: whether or not there are any long term negative outcomes
8:49
Speaker 1: from being the youngest in the cohort or being diagnosed
8:52
Speaker 1: with ADHD, particularly when you're the youngest in the cohort.
8:56
Speaker 1: And this is a really fascinating research. It's also kind
8:59
Speaker 1: of provocative because any conversation around ADHD and any suggestion
9:03
Speaker 1: that it's anything other than a neurological disorder can really
9:08
Speaker 1: irritate and upset a lot of people. So we're not
9:10
Speaker 1: trying to be provocative. We're simply reporting on what the
9:12
Speaker 1: science is showing. These researchers got a really nice large
9:17
Speaker 1: sample of Swedish kids. They compared the children who were
9:21
Speaker 1: born in January and February of the year with those
9:24
Speaker 1: born in November in December. So they're essentially saying, if
9:27
Speaker 1: you're in grade three and you're a January February child,
9:30
Speaker 1: that means that you're pretty much ten to twelve months
9:32
Speaker 1: older than the kids who were born in November December. Therefore,
9:34
Speaker 1: youngest versus oldest, let's have a look at what's going
9:37
Speaker 1: on here. The total of three hundred thousand kids, around
9:41
Speaker 1: about six and a half thousand had an ADHD diagnosis.
9:44
Speaker 1: And what they did was they basically looked at how
9:46
Speaker 1: those children were going when they were little. Then they
9:49
Speaker 1: had look at them aged between fifteen and twenty three,
9:52
Speaker 1: and they were having a look at whether or not
9:54
Speaker 1: they were doing well at school, whether or not they
9:56
Speaker 1: were involved with substance use disorder, which is a pretty
9:59
Speaker 1: high threshold. We're not just talking about whether they were
10:01
Speaker 1: using alcohol and other drugs. We're talking about kids that
10:03
Speaker 1: have got a disorder associated with substance use. They also
10:07
Speaker 1: looked at criminality and depression and the results are fairly complicated,
10:11
Speaker 1: but let me distill it into some into the simplest
10:14
Speaker 1: possible terms. Essentially, kids that were young but didn't have ADHD,
10:20
Speaker 1: that is, the kids that were younger in the cohort,
10:22
Speaker 1: but they never ended up having an ADHD diagnosis. They
10:26
Speaker 1: just because they were the youngest, it was associated with
10:28
Speaker 1: greater risk of depression, greater substance use disorder, and lower
10:33
Speaker 1: educational achievement, which I think is fascinating. And again not
10:37
Speaker 1: that being the youngest causes these things. There's plenty of
10:39
Speaker 1: people who are young in their cohort that don't go
10:41
Speaker 1: on to have substance use disorder. They still do very
10:44
Speaker 1: very well at school and they don't end up with depression,
10:47
Speaker 1: but these things are associated.
10:49
Speaker 2: It's interesting as you talking like I'm thinking about one
10:52
Speaker 2: of our children. She is the youngest in her class. Yeah,
10:55
Speaker 2: by a long shot. And in the very early days
10:59
Speaker 2: she held her own.
11:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, and everyone said she's ready. Push her into school.
11:04
Speaker 1: She's absolutely ready for this.
11:06
Speaker 2: But what we're noticing now as she progresses is just
11:09
Speaker 2: she's just still a little bit younger the other kids.
11:11
Speaker 1: The maturity level isn't there anymore, it.
11:13
Speaker 2: Really is, and it's having an impact. And I think
11:16
Speaker 2: about the experiences that I had, you know, on that
11:18
Speaker 2: desire to fit in and and you know, kind of
11:21
Speaker 2: be a part of the crowd. And when you don't
11:24
Speaker 2: fit in because your maturity level isn't there, then you've
11:26
Speaker 2: got to work harder, and it's hiring.
11:29
Speaker 1: It's so hard, and you just know you're not the same.
11:31
Speaker 2: And you're thinking of you know, coming of age and
11:34
Speaker 2: wanting to fit in. And this idea that substance abuse
11:38
Speaker 2: and use increases may have an impact.
11:42
Speaker 1: Well, they're trying to be like everyone else, perhaps, And
11:45
Speaker 1: research does show that the earlier you start using these
11:48
Speaker 1: kinds of substances, the more likely it is that it
11:50
Speaker 1: will be problematic, so that that one year difference could
11:53
Speaker 1: actually be be really important in that particular conversation. Now
11:57
Speaker 1: here's interesting. Here's where it gets even more interesting. I'm
12:00
Speaker 1: so glad that you're enjoying this.
12:01
Speaker 2: I didn't say I was enjoyed.
12:03
Speaker 1: You said it was interest. That's a proxy for enjoyment.
12:06
Speaker 1: I'm going to say the children with ADHD were just
12:12
Speaker 1: They also experienced an increased risk of substance use disorder,
12:15
Speaker 1: but that's typical for children with ADHD anyway, because they're
12:18
Speaker 1: more likely to be impulsive, they're more likely to take risks,
12:21
Speaker 1: and they also experienced lower educational achievement. We've known this
12:24
Speaker 1: for a long time. But here's the thing. The kids
12:27
Speaker 1: with ADHD weren't more likely to have depression or criminal behavior,
12:31
Speaker 1: and so it seems that children with ADHD diagnoses can
12:36
Speaker 1: actually still grow up without any worries about depression. They
12:39
Speaker 1: probably struggle at school, but we've always known that they will,
12:41
Speaker 1: and they may struggle with some risk taking. But compared
12:44
Speaker 1: to the kids that were just young for their age group,
12:47
Speaker 1: young for their cohort, they were the ones that seemed
12:49
Speaker 1: to struggle a little bit more. When we look at
12:51
Speaker 1: this data, the ADHD kids are actually doing well relative
12:57
Speaker 1: to the ones that are just the youngest in the cohort.
13:00
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really interesting, But I'm wondering how that helps moms.
13:04
Speaker 1: And dads, Yeah, the average mum or dad. So basically
13:07
Speaker 1: what it's saying is what I think that all this,
13:10
Speaker 1: combined with all of the other research on the topic,
13:13
Speaker 1: really says that children should not be pushed into school
13:16
Speaker 1: at a young age. We need to be having really
13:19
Speaker 1: intelligent conversations about how old children should be, what the
13:23
Speaker 1: developmental milestones are that they need to hit before they're
13:26
Speaker 1: ready for school, before the academic learning, before the educational
13:29
Speaker 1: pressure that comes on them. We need to be talking
13:32
Speaker 1: about how we can make those early school years much
13:34
Speaker 1: much much more enjoyable and take the pressure off I
13:38
Speaker 1: think later school starts the way we should be going.
13:40
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting that you bring that up, because that
13:42
Speaker 2: really is a wonderful segue into our last study over
13:47
Speaker 2: the day.
13:47
Speaker 1: I see how I didn't even mean to do that.
13:49
Speaker 1: So this one comes out of the UK. It's associations
13:51
Speaker 1: between school enjoyment at age six and later educational achievement.
13:56
Speaker 2: This is kind of one that actually breaks my heart
13:58
Speaker 2: a little bit because when you look at a toddler
14:02
Speaker 2: and then a preschool and you look at the way
14:05
Speaker 2: they are just wired to learn, and they just love
14:10
Speaker 2: discovering lights of up. It just it's so amazing to watch.
14:17
Speaker 2: And then you watch what happens over the first couple
14:20
Speaker 2: of years of school, generally speaking, and all of a sudden,
14:23
Speaker 2: our kids curiosity gets squashed because they just get boxed in.
14:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this is what the research has found. They
14:29
Speaker 1: were looking at. What they basically said is we know
14:31
Speaker 1: that there's a whole range of factors that affect the
14:34
Speaker 1: quality of education and how well people do at school.
14:36
Speaker 1: How will our children do at school? But one thing
14:38
Speaker 1: that's never really been researched before is how much children
14:41
Speaker 1: enjoy being at school, which I thought is fascinating. I
14:45
Speaker 1: couldn't believe that we've never looked at school enjoyment anyway,
14:48
Speaker 1: a nice, big example of about twelve thousand kids, and
14:50
Speaker 1: what they found was that students' school enjoyment at age
14:54
Speaker 1: six was very strongly associated with later achievement at age
14:58
Speaker 1: sixteen looking at the compulsory UK exams. So basically, the
15:02
Speaker 1: kids that had more fun, the kids that liked being
15:05
Speaker 1: at school when they were just six years old, did
15:07
Speaker 1: significantly better as much as three grade levels higher when
15:12
Speaker 1: they were sixteen ten years later, just because school was
15:14
Speaker 1: fun when they were well, at least, that's one of
15:16
Speaker 1: the associations. Now they canceled out. In the statistics, they
15:19
Speaker 1: looked at family background, they looked at cognitive ability, they
15:23
Speaker 1: looked at the amount of money that the family had,
15:25
Speaker 1: whether socioeconomics could have something to do with it, And
15:27
Speaker 1: what they basically said is the kids do better when
15:30
Speaker 1: they have fun. Some other things that were really interesting.
15:34
Speaker 1: Girls reported enjoying school twice as often twice as much
15:39
Speaker 1: as boys did. But essentially, what this is saying, if
15:42
Speaker 1: I was to summarize it in really simple terms, even
15:45
Speaker 1: after you control for intelligence, even after you control for
15:48
Speaker 1: socio economic background and all that kind of thing, students
15:50
Speaker 1: who enjoy school at age six earn higher standardized test
15:54
Speaker 1: scores at sixteen. And as an extension of that, research
15:58
Speaker 1: tells us that teachers are the ones who really set
16:01
Speaker 1: the tone for intrinsic motivation, because students who like their
16:05
Speaker 1: teachers are nine times more likely to enjoy school. How
16:10
Speaker 1: did you go to school?
16:10
Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you right now. The teachers that
16:12
Speaker 2: I loved, I did really well in the subjects and
16:16
Speaker 2: we watched that in our home, we've got amazingly talented
16:20
Speaker 2: and intelligent children, and the subjects where they don't get
16:26
Speaker 2: on with their teachers, they just don't do well.
16:30
Speaker 1: Fascinating stuff. Now, this does not mean that if your
16:32
Speaker 1: children are happy at school at age six that they're
16:34
Speaker 1: going to absolutely be guaranteed to do better. It just
16:36
Speaker 1: means that, on average, what we usually see is a
16:38
Speaker 1: positive relationship between these two things. And I think that
16:41
Speaker 1: it's fascinating. Once again, we want to encourage kids to
16:44
Speaker 1: have great relationships with their teachers, because if they do,
16:46
Speaker 1: they're nine times more likely to enjoy school. And if
16:48
Speaker 1: they enjoy school at age six, they're significantly more likely
16:52
Speaker 1: to do well on those standardized test scores at age sixteen,
16:54
Speaker 1: even after we control for all of the other factors
16:56
Speaker 1: that could contribute to it. That is the doctor's death
17:00
Speaker 1: for this week.
17:01
Speaker 2: I want to say, I'm looking forward to the next
17:02
Speaker 2: one in four weeks time. But yes, yes, you are
17:05
Speaker 2: you enjoyed that it's four weeks break?
17:07
Speaker 1: Do you know? I enjoyed that? It hurts my head
17:10
Speaker 1: because you like me, and because you like me, you
17:12
Speaker 1: enjoy what we get to do. You like me and
17:14
Speaker 1: it was nine times more enjoyable, nine times more enjoyable
17:18
Speaker 1: than a regular podcast. Wow. We hope that you enjoyed
17:22
Speaker 1: the podcast. If you did, please leave us a rating
17:24
Speaker 1: and review. It's your ratings, your reviews that help other
17:27
Speaker 1: people to find out about the podcast and make their
17:29
Speaker 1: families happier. We received just the most delightful rating and
17:33
Speaker 1: review from somebody whose apple name is Couldn't do this
17:35
Speaker 1: without you? Five stars. The title of this review was
17:39
Speaker 1: soothes and realigns me. Listening to Justin and Kylie each
17:42
Speaker 1: day both susan re aligns me being a parent of
17:44
Speaker 1: two children under three, a business owner, and a full
17:47
Speaker 1: time emergency service worker. I have numerous stresses in my
17:50
Speaker 1: life each day. As I sit in my car and
17:52
Speaker 1: listen to this podcast, it reminds me that while my
17:54
Speaker 1: life is busy and I face challenges on a daily basis,
17:57
Speaker 1: my main purpose in life is to provide a warm,
17:59
Speaker 1: compassion safer, nurturing environment for my girls to grow in. So,
18:03
Speaker 1: no matter what else has occurred in my day, Justin
18:04
Speaker 1: and Kylie realign me daily to what is truly important,
18:07
Speaker 1: and they help my wife and I to be better
18:08
Speaker 1: parents and better people. Thank you Wow, I feel realigned,
18:13
Speaker 1: I feel soothed. What a wonderful, wonderful kindness we really appreciate.
18:17
Speaker 1: Couldn't do this without you for your five star rating
18:20
Speaker 1: and review. Like I said, you can leave them on
18:23
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. Hey, we've got four hundred and sixty one ratings.
18:26
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be amazing to get to five hundred? Will
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Speaker 1: you help us get there? Can we see if we
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Speaker 1: can get forty this week? That would be phenomenal? Please
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Speaker 1: do if you haven't done it already. The Happy Famili's
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Speaker 1: podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from Bridge Media. Craig
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Speaker 1: Bruce is our executive producer and if you'd like more
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Speaker 1: info about making your family happier, whether it's for free
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Speaker 1: or via our Happy Families memberships, check out Happy families
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Speaker 1: dot com dot a u