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Guns, Dems, And Heels · Politix

0:00
SPEAKER_01: obviously like the purpose of the vice president, right?
0:01
SPEAKER_01: If Donald Trump dies in office, Vance will become president automatically.
0:05
SPEAKER_02: And Trump is old.
0:06
SPEAKER_02: He's got this glass fragment lodged in his earlobe.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, who knows, right?
0:13
SPEAKER_00: And so if, then it really does matter, like who is the real J.D.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Vance.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Hey everyone, you're listening to a free preview of the Politics Podcast.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: In this episode, we'll talk about a lot of unpleasant news, actually.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: There was the shooting at the Trump rally on Saturday.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: And then there's a question of what to make of Donald Trump's new running mate, J.D.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: Vance.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: And finally,
0:42
SPEAKER_01: how to reassess Democrats in light of their political paralysis as they contemplate
0:47
SPEAKER_01: losing the 2024 election.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: So I hope you enjoy the conversation.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: And if you want to hear the whole thing, you can upgrade your subscription to paid at politics.fm.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Hey everyone, welcome to the Politics Podcast.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm Brian Boitler.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm Matthew Iglesias.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: We're back and it's like Matt wasn't on vacation last week,
1:09
SPEAKER_01: but it feels like enough time has gone by or enough crazy things have happened
1:14
SPEAKER_01: since last episode that we have to do this big omnibus recap of a whole bunch of
1:20
SPEAKER_01: crazy shit.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Starting with...
1:23
SPEAKER_01: the Pennsylvania shooting,
1:26
SPEAKER_01: I guess it was a Pennsylvania Trump rally shooting where Trump was shot or at the
1:32
SPEAKER_01: very least injured by some shrapnel or shattered glass.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: We're not really sure.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: But it has been... I'm a Trump shooting truther.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to come out with it here.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I should offer you cover as a... Well, I was just going to ask you because I'd say like...
1:52
SPEAKER_02: One time I saw a gunshot wound victim and it was it was my friend Brian.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: He was quite a bit more.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: It's like you're like,
2:00
SPEAKER_02: oh,
2:01
SPEAKER_02: it's like incredibly brave of Trump to just like stand up and like give this thumbs
2:05
SPEAKER_02: up when he was shot.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: But that's because like he wasn't hurt.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he wasn't hurt.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: So what's it like to be shot by actual bullets?
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Look, I also got up and I was able to begin running just briefly.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: Did you pump your fist and say, fight, fight, fight?
2:27
SPEAKER_01: I kind of pumped my fists and I said, we got to run, run, run.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: So wait, what happened actually?
2:31
SPEAKER_01: Because we're old friends.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: People don't know.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: What are we talking about here?
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: This was now over 15 years.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: It was 2008 in July.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: So the anniversary just happened, I guess.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: The raging out of control crime of the George W.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: Bush years before Barack Obama brought law and order to America.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: It was more dangerous in D.C.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: then than it is now.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: and I was out late at night on a weeknight with a friend because I was in my 20s,
2:58
SPEAKER_01: and that was just the kind of thing that I did.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: And we were on our way home,
3:03
SPEAKER_01: but changed plans to go into Adams Morgan,
3:07
SPEAKER_01: a neighborhood in D.C.,
3:08
SPEAKER_01: via this dark street,
3:11
SPEAKER_01: one-way street.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: It was like 1 or 2 in the morning, so nobody was out.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: And we just got...
3:16
SPEAKER_01: our, our paths were crossed by a couple of kids.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: This is Euclid street, right?
3:21
SPEAKER_01: Euclid street,
3:22
SPEAKER_02: which is notorious dismemberment plan songs specifically about getting robbed at
3:26
SPEAKER_02: gunpoint on Euclid street.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, there is a, there's a great old city paper article about, you know, the gang activity on that street.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: And, um,
3:36
SPEAKER_01: From back in the mid-aughts to, I believe, Jason Chirkus wrote it.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, we were trying to get friends to come meet us at the next stop, and we had our new iPhones.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: iPhones were a pretty new thing then, and these kids were like, give us your phones, and we...
3:51
SPEAKER_01: said no and so one of them pulled a gun out passed it to his friend who happened to
3:56
SPEAKER_01: be standing in front of me maybe four or five feet away and just like pulled the
4:00
SPEAKER_01: trigger three times and ran and i fell on the street and uh they were gone and i
4:05
SPEAKER_01: got up and dusted myself off and your adrenaline's flowing and i didn't i didn't
4:09
SPEAKER_01: quite understand what had happened like it was like
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Saw a gun.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: It went off.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: I fell.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: That adds up to you got shot.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: But like I would not be just standing right up.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: So we were going to just continue on with our day and our night.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: And and we started walking back down the street to resume our plans.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: And then it just started like my shoulder hurts and my shirt was red.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: So I took it off and it was blood everywhere.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Um,
4:35
SPEAKER_01: and so then I knew it was real and we started running and my friend called 911 and
4:40
SPEAKER_01: an ambulance came.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: But by the time the ambulance arrived,
4:43
SPEAKER_01: the,
4:44
SPEAKER_01: the severity of my internal injuries had caught up with me and I couldn't run anymore.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: And I had kind of slumped down on the sidewalk and I was trying to stay conscious.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, I just, my spleen had been shot and so I was bleeding a lot.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: And, uh,
4:58
SPEAKER_01: The ambulance drivers, EMTs, they gave me a fluid IV.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: It picked my blood pressure back up.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: And then it was like, oh, this is what being shot feels like.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: It really hurts.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, they took me to the hospital.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: They did a big surgery.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: They took out my spleen.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: They stapled some other holes in my organs.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: And then I was out of the hospital in 11 days.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I made a full recovery.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Life went on.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: And I don't talk about it a ton anymore because my friends all know what happened.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: A lot of the people who I meet know what happened because I've written about it a couple of times.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: But every now and again, something happens in the news that makes it newly relevant, such as now.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: And it's not that I think it's impossible for somebody to have like an
5:45
SPEAKER_01: be shot in a way that doesn't cause that kind of serious life-threatening injury.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that happens a lot in American society.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: There are actually two things about the Trump shooting that I would like a little bit more clarity on.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: One is just like, I'm curious, what actually happened to cause Trump's injury?
6:05
SPEAKER_01: Was it that an AR-15 bullet grazed his ear to create a small bleed and
6:12
SPEAKER_01: also didn't damage his hearing at all?
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Or did a bullet...
6:17
SPEAKER_01: I know the people who are being actually conspiratorial about this are like,
6:22
SPEAKER_01: no,
6:22
SPEAKER_01: his teleprompter shattered and the glass cut his ear.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: And that's another hypothesis.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe it was a bullet fragment.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: The question should be answerable.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: Like if a...
6:34
SPEAKER_01: competent physician or medical professional examined Trump after it happened and
6:40
SPEAKER_01: took real notes and not the kind of notes that Trump asked his doctors to take,
6:44
SPEAKER_01: it would be in there.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: People used to talk a lot about norms and Trump, right?
6:49
SPEAKER_02: And this is like a small example of like, I just think if you went back in time
6:54
SPEAKER_02: To Barack Obama's presidency, George W. Bush's presidency, Bill Clinton's presidency.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: Had there been a gunshot and an injury to a president or a presidential candidate?
7:07
SPEAKER_02: And then the person was,
7:08
SPEAKER_02: as Trump,
7:09
SPEAKER_02: Trump,
7:09
SPEAKER_02: it seems he went to the hospital and he was examined by doctors.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: You just would have gotten a exhaustingly thorough account from the doctors of exactly what occurred.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Not because there's actually any great significance in like exactly what occurred,
7:27
SPEAKER_02: but just because as a matter of routine.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: you were exhaustingly documenting what was going on, right?
7:36
SPEAKER_02: Starting with Trump,
7:37
SPEAKER_02: who at the time Trump became president,
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Trump was the oldest president that we had ever had and seemed in many ways to not
7:45
SPEAKER_02: be in great health.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: We started to get presidential medical reports that were political propaganda.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: Democrats,
7:53
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to go down this rabbit hole,
7:54
SPEAKER_02: but are obviously now not in a point to have any like high ground on that subject
7:58
SPEAKER_02: of like exhausted medical.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: We will get to that in like 45 minutes.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, it's...
8:05
SPEAKER_02: It is like a two wrongs don't make a right kind of situation.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: This is,
8:10
SPEAKER_02: in some ways,
8:11
SPEAKER_02: the least important thing that's gone on in American politics over the past 10 years.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: But we've tumbled into this weird universe where you no longer can just take for
8:20
SPEAKER_02: granted that you're getting these clear counts.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: Now...
8:23
SPEAKER_02: To me,
8:23
SPEAKER_02: the more relevant thing about the Trump shooting,
8:26
SPEAKER_02: the known unknowns,
8:27
SPEAKER_02: is that there was this very rapid rush to be like,
8:32
SPEAKER_02: A,
8:32
SPEAKER_02: it's bad to shoot at presidential candidates,
8:34
SPEAKER_02: which I agree with.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: And then B, to connect the dots very fiercely to like, Democrats say Trump is a threat to democracy.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: And that's why people are shooting at him.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: And it's totally unclear that that's at all what was on this guy's mind.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: Can I chime in?
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Because,
8:58
SPEAKER_01: look,
8:58
SPEAKER_01: I think getting to the bottom of what actually hit Trump in the ear is important because...
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't,
9:05
SPEAKER_01: as an actual person who has been hit by a bullet,
9:08
SPEAKER_01: don't appreciate stolen,
9:10
SPEAKER_01: got shot valor,
9:11
SPEAKER_01: and I want to know.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: And second, even when John F. Kennedy was shot...
9:18
SPEAKER_01: There was a briefing.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: You can watch it on TV.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Was it Parkland Hospital?
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Is that what it's called?
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Where they just explain bullet through the head, you know, that didn't happen this time.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: And it just should happen.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: Like there should be a clear record of it because Trump's untrustworthy and he will
9:34
SPEAKER_01: claim to have been shot even if he knows it's not true because that sounds more
9:39
SPEAKER_01: badass than I got.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: I got nicked with some glass.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: And we shouldn't accept that he just gets to do that.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: The truth of the matter is important.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: But the truth of what the shooter's motive was is the thing that I think is really...
9:56
SPEAKER_01: It's like...
9:58
SPEAKER_01: There ought to be...
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Like...
10:04
SPEAKER_01: like simultaneous congressional and FBI investigations that intersect with each
10:11
SPEAKER_01: other because the public needs to know,
10:13
SPEAKER_01: right?
10:13
SPEAKER_01: If the FBI finds out that this was, that can assess a motive.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: It can't remain locked in DOJ quarters, right?
10:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Republicans are going to run away with the conspiracy theories about this shooter
10:27
SPEAKER_01: no matter what,
10:28
SPEAKER_01: but my concern isn't really conspiratorial.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: It's more like it's a hypothesis I want to see run down.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Um,
10:36
SPEAKER_01: like people just seem content at the moment to treat the young guy who did this as
10:41
SPEAKER_01: essentially like a school shooter,
10:43
SPEAKER_01: right?
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, just a messed up young person who's trying to gain fame.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: And I'm totally willing to buy that.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: That's all it was.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Um,
10:51
SPEAKER_01: But people seem to want to assume it so that they can move on, right?
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Like,
10:55
SPEAKER_01: if it was like any other American assault rifle massacre,
10:59
SPEAKER_01: then Republicans don't have to change their views on anything because they're
11:02
SPEAKER_01: already the party that is okay with mass shootings.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: And Democrats can remain in this defensive crouch because they're not going to
11:09
SPEAKER_01: shame Republicans out of gun culture.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: And because Trump is the victim here, it would look petty to try to turn this into a liability for them.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: But...
11:19
SPEAKER_01: If this guy was like a fanatical accelerationist who was like,
11:23
SPEAKER_01: I like Trump,
11:24
SPEAKER_01: but killing him might ignite civil war,
11:27
SPEAKER_01: then it's not really OK by me for Democrats to.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: No,
11:30
SPEAKER_02: I tell you,
11:31
SPEAKER_02: the other thing is that there's what looks like a,
11:34
SPEAKER_02: you know,
11:35
SPEAKER_02: really egregious breakdown of the protection protocols.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: which you know um elon musk floated like a one conspiratorial version of this in
11:49
SPEAKER_02: which like i don't know he seemed to be suggesting that like the biden secret
11:55
SPEAKER_02: service like let trump get shot or something um which is ridiculous what i think is
12:01
SPEAKER_02: like less ridiculous right is that um
12:06
SPEAKER_02: It's like not a big secret that like rank and file law enforcement personnel in the
12:10
SPEAKER_02: United States are a major Trump constituency.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: And,
12:14
SPEAKER_02: you know,
12:15
SPEAKER_02: I think a concern you might have is that people working these rallies are like fans
12:26
SPEAKER_02: and they're not doing their job.
12:29
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
12:30
SPEAKER_02: Like they're like there to watch the rally, not to be professional.
12:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that Trump is too actually like close with his details.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: You know,
12:39
SPEAKER_02: which is not,
12:40
SPEAKER_02: you know,
12:40
SPEAKER_02: if you ever like read books about this stuff,
12:43
SPEAKER_02: it's like the relations between security details and protectees are often like
12:49
SPEAKER_02: fairly contentious,
12:51
SPEAKER_02: you know,
12:51
SPEAKER_02: because there's always some push and pull,
12:54
SPEAKER_02: give and take about like,
12:55
SPEAKER_02: don't stage it there,
12:56
SPEAKER_02: you know,
12:57
SPEAKER_02: don't have this line of sight,
12:59
SPEAKER_02: et cetera,
12:59
SPEAKER_02: et cetera.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: And then,
13:00
SPEAKER_02: you know,
13:00
SPEAKER_02: the president and his team,
13:01
SPEAKER_02: it's like,
13:02
SPEAKER_02: you want to put on a good show,
13:03
SPEAKER_02: you know,
13:04
SPEAKER_02: back and forth,
13:04
SPEAKER_02: back and forth.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, again, who knows exactly what went on here?
13:08
SPEAKER_02: The Secret Service has been enmeshed in a lot of scandals over the past 5 to 15 years.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: And maybe they're just idiots.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: They were relying, it seems like, on local law enforcement for a lot of support here.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Traditionally, we've had presidential events mostly in major cities.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, so...
13:28
SPEAKER_02: NYPD,
13:29
SPEAKER_02: LAPD,
13:30
SPEAKER_02: Chicago Police Department,
13:31
SPEAKER_02: big city police departments have specialized forces and some experience in things
13:36
SPEAKER_02: like surveillance and counterterrorism and VIP protection.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: Doing rallies in small towns is a...
13:44
SPEAKER_02: sort of like admirable Trump affectation.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: But it's like not obvious that small town police departments like know how to do this kind of work.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, I mean, they should think about it.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just to say on both directions, what you're saying about the motive, like,
14:00
SPEAKER_02: When people are like, it is bad that a sniper took a shot at a presidential candidate.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, that is completely true.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: And that is, like, not just a talking point.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: But it calls for,
14:12
SPEAKER_02: like,
14:12
SPEAKER_02: actually looking at the causal chain of events here,
14:17
SPEAKER_02: both in terms of the motive and in terms of the protection that went down.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's something that we should try to adjudicate.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, I mean, like,
14:31
SPEAKER_02: Suppose Trump had been shot and killed, right?
14:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that would be bad on the level that murder is bad.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: But the consequences for American society of something like that would have been quite calamitous, right?
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, look, I mean, you know what I mean?
14:49
SPEAKER_02: And I don't mean that in the sense that like God needs Trump to bestow us.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: But it's like people would be losing their shit like in a really bad way.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: You could imagine it spiraling out of control.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: And like you can also imagine it being like, well, that sucks.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: That era is over.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is actually one thing people who have mixed feelings about
15:08
SPEAKER_01: this are grappling with and why it's like there's this big push,
15:12
SPEAKER_01: including people like me,
15:15
SPEAKER_01: to reject political violence now because we know that there are a significant
15:20
SPEAKER_01: number of people who think the world would be better off without Trump in it.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I agree with that view.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: But as in many things, how that happens is a significant part of whether it's actually better or worse.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: And in a rule of law society where his supporters are fanatical, you cannot indulge that.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: You cannot be like,
15:45
SPEAKER_01: we should make an exception,
15:47
SPEAKER_01: be like,
15:48
SPEAKER_01: treat Trump like this Hitler-esque person where if you could go back in time,
15:52
SPEAKER_01: obviously you would try to find Hitler and kill him.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: You can't try to predict the future and then justify some violent end to Trump's
16:04
SPEAKER_01: life as a result of that.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: And so it's healthy to see all of the liberal elite try to shut that thought down.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: But it remains true.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: We don't actually know.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: what the consequences of Trump dying would have been because that's not the future
16:26
SPEAKER_01: we ended up living in.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think that's right.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, I mean, I don't have that much more to say about this other than...
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Well,
16:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
16:37
SPEAKER_01: yes,
16:38
SPEAKER_01: like I just like I don't want the investigation that Congress doesn't like they're
16:41
SPEAKER_01: going to do an investigation.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: But like the investigation needs to have two parts.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: One would be like,
16:47
SPEAKER_01: remember when like if Benghazi had happened,
16:50
SPEAKER_01: but Republicans weren't like opportunistic creeps,
16:54
SPEAKER_01: you would have had an investigation of how the security protocols broke down and
16:58
SPEAKER_01: maybe like a political debate about what we were doing in Libya and whether that
17:03
SPEAKER_01: was a good thing.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: use of american power or whatever and that would have been like a salutary that
17:08
SPEAKER_01: would have been healthy and there should be that kind of investigation about this
17:12
SPEAKER_01: right do does the secret service need more money does it need better training does
17:16
SPEAKER_01: it need um to change its protocols around rallies outdoor rallies indoor rallies
17:22
SPEAKER_01: like all that is important but like is donald trump a target of people who actually
17:28
SPEAKER_01: like him because a subset of those people are
17:32
SPEAKER_01: think martyring him would bring like usher in the civil war that they want is a very,
17:37
SPEAKER_01: very,
17:37
SPEAKER_01: very important question.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: And I am worried that Congress is going to want to look away from any question of
17:48
SPEAKER_01: motive that doesn't in some ways
17:52
SPEAKER_01: hold the MAGA movement harmless.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: And I think the time is now to say that that would be unacceptable.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: That would be a huge dereliction.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: But so the real news here,
18:06
SPEAKER_02: and we should maybe take a break and then discuss it,
18:09
SPEAKER_02: I feel like,
18:09
SPEAKER_02: is that Democratic Party leaders...
18:14
SPEAKER_02: who were under a lot of stress because the president of the United States wants to
18:19
SPEAKER_02: run for re-election and most of the influential people seem to not want him to run
18:27
SPEAKER_02: for re-election.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: And that was like creating big hassles for Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer,
18:34
SPEAKER_02: seemed to have used the Trump shooting as a pretext to throw in the towel.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's a little unclear.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: They at least decided to drop it for like while the dust settled and we the dust is
18:52
SPEAKER_01: only now kind of just settling and and polls are coming out now that might rekindle.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: The the Democratic desire to.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: But it's just it's like, you know, this has been like like like Liam Donovan's point about this for for.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: He's like a Republican lobbyist who is analytically.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: His point about this for the past two weeks has just been that, like, there's a hard clock on this.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, like all Biden has to do is like play four corners defense.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: And run it out.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: So anything that just like even just like puts a three day pause on talking about
19:30
SPEAKER_02: this is a kind of decision.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
19:34
SPEAKER_02: And like, yeah, it's like.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: You can tell that.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm just I'm just using Jeffries is like a stand in for kind of.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: The swing vote here that it's like what he wants most of all is to like make this conversation go away.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: You know, and they're like, are we sure about that?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: You're sure his his his ultimate goal isn't to become speaker of the House and that
20:05
SPEAKER_01: like he has a real incentive to try to find a stronger.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he does like this.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: But this is like I feel like if you could force everyone.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: just gun to your head, up or down, who's the stronger candidate?
20:18
SPEAKER_02: Most Democrats would want the stronger candidate.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: But there's all these coordination problems.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: There's various barriers in the way of doing that.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: And so then it's like,
20:28
SPEAKER_02: whenever it quiets down,
20:30
SPEAKER_02: they just seem to feel some sense of relief,
20:33
SPEAKER_02: even though they're walking into oblivion.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: Just the fact that there's no reason,
20:41
SPEAKER_02: there's no logical relationship between...
20:45
SPEAKER_02: The relationship between the shooting and Trump opponents should tune down the rhetoric,
20:52
SPEAKER_02: I sort of disagree with,
20:53
SPEAKER_02: but I understand what the theory is,
20:59
SPEAKER_02: right?
20:59
SPEAKER_02: But like...
21:01
SPEAKER_02: Trump got shot,
21:03
SPEAKER_02: so people who think it's bad to have your presidential nominee be incapable of
21:10
SPEAKER_02: delivering crisp talking points on television should stop complaining.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: Like, that doesn't make sense.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, these things have nothing to do with each other.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, so there was reporting on Monday by Jonathan Martin, who's like...
21:23
SPEAKER_01: say what you will about, about his work.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: I know that like,
21:27
SPEAKER_01: I think many people in our audience are not like fans of the Politico slash New
21:32
SPEAKER_01: York times politics desk style of political reporting,
21:35
SPEAKER_01: but he's been dead on about,
21:37
SPEAKER_01: uh,
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Biden's limitations, coming limitations as a candidate for months before the debate.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: His reporting says that Nancy Pelosi, God bless her, is still, she's still on this.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: She is still working her angles to try to edge Biden off the stage.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: And I think that you can read that either as she is being in her influence and connections and wisdom or
22:03
SPEAKER_01: a proxy for Hakeem Jeffries so that he doesn't have to be this like whippersnapper
22:10
SPEAKER_01: figure seen trying to push grandpa off a cliff or that there's been a rift between
22:17
SPEAKER_01: Pelosi and
22:19
SPEAKER_01: and Jeffries on this question.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: And she's the only one willing to take initiative or she is kind of going behind his back to do it.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: And I,
22:27
SPEAKER_01: knowing Pelosi well as a public figure and knowing Hakeem Jeffries fairly well,
22:34
SPEAKER_01: that second explanation doesn't make sense to me.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: I think that she's the tip of the spear.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: All right.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: I hope so.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: But should we...
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Because this conflicts with how I've often talked about Nancy Pelosi in the last few years.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: Should we put a paywall here?
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Let's see what we're rethinking.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: We can do a reassessment of Democrats and their political instincts in light of recent events.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: I'll take that as a yes.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: I do.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: I do want to do that.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: I want to reassess.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: All right.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: All right.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: If you want to hear that...
23:12
SPEAKER_01: and like a brief assessment of Donald Trump's vice presidential pick, J.D.
23:19
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