Latest / ADHD with Confidence | Overcome Anxiety & Self-Doubt, Christian ADHD Coach, ADHD in Women / 165 // Success and Imposter Syndrome in ADHD, with Dr. Tamara Rosier

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165 // Success and Imposter Syndrome in ADHD, with Dr. Tamara Rosier · ADHD with Confidence | Overcome Anxiety & Self-Doubt, Christian ADHD Coach, ADHD in Women

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Hey friends, welcome to the ADHD with Confidence podcast. I'm your host,
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Kelsey Spronk, and I'm so excited to be joined once again by Dr. Tamara Rozier.
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She is an author, a public speaker, a certified ADHD coach, and the founder
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of the ADHD Center of West Michigan. Tamara, welcome back.
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I am so glad to be here. Thanks for having me again. for sure i was excited
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to have you back so i'll post the other episode that we did
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below last time we talked about your book you me and our adhd family i have
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that one in front of me and i also have your brains not broken can you tell us about
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this next project this next book that you are working on or i guess not working on that you were,
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about to launch here in the fall yeah so in the in the publishing industry like
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you have a year about a year to write a book They have about a year to do all
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their magic with it And then it lands So I turned in the manuscript last fall,
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My publisher asked me to write the teen version of Your Brain's Not Broken.
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And they're like, it's just a quick little rewrite. Like, just. But, Kelsey.
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Come on. Teenagers, adults. Right. So I rewrote the entire book.
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And, you know, I kind of got into my head. Like, Tamara, you're super old.
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Why are you trying to write to the alpha generation?
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But I had these alpha readers who helped me along and helped me not sound...
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Stupid to them but still in my voice so,
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yeah I'm excited about this project I wasn't at the time last summer I was like
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oh I can never do this but I'm excited I'm hoping it will help teens and I've
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just realized their brain's not broken,
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what are some so I know a lot of people who have really enjoyed this first book
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you had your brain's not broken directed towards adults so this one for teens,
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what are you excited about for it how do you think it will help teens with ADHD yeah so,
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I did rewrite a lot of it,
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something that I help my clients do at all ages is to figure out their values
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and to tether themselves to values so if I want to be a kind person but my ADHD is making me cranky,
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I'm going to go back and go, oh, I didn't act like a kind person.
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That's, I'm really, I value that. So how do I make that right out of, because I value it?
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So I asked teens to do a lot of identity development work in that book,
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because I think that could help an ADHD teen along.
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Absolutely. Understanding who they are, especially in those teen years where,
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there's peer pressure and a lot of, I mean, we still struggle with comparison.
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But a lot of comparison and wondering who you are and not feeling confident
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or certain in that identity. Absolutely.
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I look forward to when, you know, once that is out, you're welcome to come back
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and talk more about it, you know, so that I can actually read it first and see what it's all about.
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But for those who are hoping for something for that for a teen in their life,
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just keep an eye out for that. Are you able to tell us the title or no?
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Yep. It's your bracelet broken for teens and young adults. Perfect. There we go.
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Easy. I love it. Real easy. Yeah. And I wrote it just very quickly for the very
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smart sixth grader, because I tend to work with those people who are like,
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they're reading like adults, but they're not at adult level,
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but also for the college freshman.
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So I tried to write in a large, to a large audience to try to get, yeah, the message.
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Okay, so if parents have children in any of those ranges or if somebody is listening
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and they're, you know, old enough to be able to purchase that for themselves.
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Okay, I look forward to reading that, to learning more about that.
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In today's episode, I wanted to dive specifically more into your story.
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So the reason for that is I think often as women with ADHD...
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It's helpful to see other women with ADHD who have been successful,
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but who are authentic about the fact that there's also been struggles,
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hardships along the way.
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And you have, you are so successful.
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I don't remember, when did you say you got diagnosed with ADHD?
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Okay, so let me interrupt you the question there. Go for it.
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Every time um i don't know if your viewers are going to be able to see the video
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but every time if they're watching my face every time you say successful i can feel myself cringe,
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oh and i just want to talk about that in me because i'm positive this happens
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in other women because i'm like oh kelsey you fine young person who thinks i'm successful like i.
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What? No. I'm barely making it.
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And I'm saying that because that's like, it's like I have this old curmudgeon
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in my brain going, she doesn't know you. You're faking this.
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Does that make sense? So every time you said successful, like,
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I could feel myself do a micro expression of going, ugh.
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I saw that little eyebrow raise there. Yeah, I felt like, right.
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And I'm just being really honest about that because a lot of women have imposter syndrome.
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Yeah. And I think that is important to hear. And I'm going to say it again. So get ready to cringe.
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From people who have, I look at it and I do believe you are successful.
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And I mean, obviously there's, you can look into how do people define success?
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What is success here? you know but we're not we're not getting into that today
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that's not the conversation but I mean,
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as an author I think part of it too and I mean you've been requested to to speak
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at various different events and you still are I see your name pop up you know all over the place,
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and so I think the other part of it too though that I would say and I'm I'm
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expecting a cringe for this too but yeah I feel like I'm trying to finish my
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face you've experienced you've experienced this success, but you were also very
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down to earth and very kind.
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And I've heard that from other people as well. This is not just my opinion.
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And so I wanted to ask you, what do you think has helped you to get to where
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you are today as far as, you know, having the courage to write books, having the courage to,
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be a certified ADHD coach and to start the, you know,
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the center of West, the ADHD center of West Michigan. What do you think has helped get you there?
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Okay, so first I'll just respond with a joke. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
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Again, you hear me? This isn't false self-deprecation.
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This is literally, unfortunately, I'm modeling how women with ADHD tend to think.
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And I can't say this enough. We tend to think, well, I got some great breaks.
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And by the way, our male counterparts, this is non-ADHD, this is just true with
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males. They tend to go, yeah, it was me.
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I did this. And women tend to have an external locus of control when it comes to success.
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And I'm sorry I'm being a bad model for that. I'm working on myself.
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I wake up every day absolutely grateful and deeply, deeply grateful for the
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journey I've been allowed to be on.
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I think the first 40 years of my life were a training ground for my second 40.
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And the first 40 were just, it was a tough training ground, let me tell you.
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And there were a lot of challenges and obstacles. But the second 40.
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I look back at the first 40 and go, yeah, I learned that. I learned the humility,
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not to like think it's all me.
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I learned the like just authenticity,
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because that's all i was left with some days and i didn't even like who i was
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and so i'm like whoa i don't want to be authentic because she sucks like i you
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know i had to do all this work to kind of put the pieces together,
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and i'm really deeply grateful,
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that I have a solid family.
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I have a great relationship with my kids.
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And we've weathered all the storms together. So I'm just grateful for all that.
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I'm hearing a few times you're saying the word grateful that I hate saying this
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because it always rhymes.
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But I have to say the attitude of gratitude, being grateful for things in life.
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And then that piece of authenticity as well. Like you said, the challenge of
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on the days where we don't like ourselves.
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But the fact that taking off that mask, being able to authentically be who we
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are, allows us that opportunity to genuinely build those relationships.
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You mentioned family, how grateful you are for your family.
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And I think within our families, if we're able to be authentic,
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there's that opportunity also to be loved in those broken places,
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in those places where we feel like we, it's not about our performance.
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I think a lot of time, as women with ADHD, people-pleasing, we want to perform.
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We feel like our worth is tied to our performance. And that's something I talk
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about here, that it is not about our performance,
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but it takes a long time and a lot of repetition and reminders to really,
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truly believe that to the core of who we are.
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It's true. I'm just going to add something.
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I didn't write, Your Brain's Not Broken, for any other reason.
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But as hey i think i just want to write a book someday okay and i really felt
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led to do it at that moment.
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And some things were really lining up where it's like this is this is your shot,
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and so i took the shot but as i was writing it it was during covid so you know
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great time to write a book,
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you know when everything's shut down and we don't know what the future holds,
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but i kept thinking i'm just writing it to the clients i'll never meet as a
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love letter saying you're not broken.
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You're okay. You're seen.
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And I just got notified a couple of weeks ago that the book has sold over 150,000
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copies. Wow. Congratulations.
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And I'm so grateful I didn't know that that was going to happen.
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I thought I'd sell a couple thousand and I'd be like, I did it. My book, I wrote a book.
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You know what I mean? Like, check that off my list. So I'm saying that just
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because that's part of that journey of my MO is go underneath the radar and just don't be seen.
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You have to be criticized if you if you're not seen now think of the journey
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i've been on being vulnerable to over 150 000 people.
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That just freaks me out but that was part of my growth journey does that make
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sense like other people they don't think twice about it,
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i i don't like that kind of vulnerability and yet i'm growing into it and i
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think that's what makes it so relatable is to see that it's not like you came
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into writing a book saying, well, I'm Tamara Rozier.
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I'm awesome. I can do anything I want and everyone's going to love it.
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You know, it's relatable because you're telling us the reality behind the fact
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that you still feel and felt imposter syndrome.
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And I think it's encouraging for those of us listening that we can do hard things.
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We can do things that we right now might not even think are possible.
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And like you said, sometimes it's good for us to not know how big these things
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are and to just take that one little step of faith. That was one of God's mercies on my life.
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It's like, hey, I'm not going to tell her. Yeah, yeah.
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Well, and I do think that is, it grows us in our faith when God's saying,
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hey, I want you to go do this thing.
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And we feel that. Like you see, you feel that nudge to write a book.
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You feel that nudge to do that thing, but he's just going to give you a little
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glimpse because if he gives you the whole picture, we're going to like put on
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a little turtle shell and hide.
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No way. No. And I think it's hilarious because even after the first book was
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published, I remember the book came out in September and late in August,
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I'm like, oh, mistakes have been made.
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I've written too much. I was too honest. Why was I telling people I get angry
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when I get into a hot car? That's ridiculous. Adults don't do that.
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And so I'm just getting like, I've got to call the Publisher,
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maybe I'll buy all the books they've ever printed.
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And this whole thing will never, I panicked.
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And I just think it's funny. So here's my cure to imposter syndrome for me.
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Now, everyone needs to find their own cure.
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But every time I feel imposter syndrome, I'm putting too much emphasis on me.
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And I'm putting too much emphasis on how I'm perceived.
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But really what I want to do is I want to go through life as a learner.
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It's like I signed up for Life 101.
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And so I'm just like, you know, today could be magical.
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If you look for the magic today, you're going to find it, Tamara.
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And so I try to say that every morning, like, you know, today could be magical.
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And my little ADHD brain loves it. It's like, oh, magic. Let's look for the magic.
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And I do, I start to see like just the wondrous things of the different seasons and just cool things.
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So that's how I, anytime I feel imposter syndrome and my brain goes there all
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the time, I try to course correct for it.
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That's such a beautiful way of putting it, too, is saying the imposter syndrome
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might still appear. It might still show up no matter where we are in our journey.
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But taking that focus away from ourselves, away from just, you know,
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what are people going to think about us? And who am I to be doing this? And things like that.
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I think, too, that can hold us in such a place of fear, which means that,
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you know, if you would have stayed in that place, we wouldn't have this book
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that has helped over 150,000 people, myself included.
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This was after I was diagnosed. I think this was probably one of the first books that I read.
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And it was incredibly helpful to just just even the title, Your Brain's Not
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Broken, was such a good reminder.
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And then all of the content in it. So I think to encourage those who are listening,
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is that even when we feel like we can't do something or who are we to do that,
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who are we to help or to serve or to work here or to write this book or to do this thing,
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is that when we can focus on the fact that it can help other people.
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It's almost doing a disservice if we stay in that fear. Or, yeah,
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or we can, those of us who have ADHD, we can engage our divergent brains.
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And our little divergent brains want to ask, well, why not?
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And every ADHD woman has a little bit of that audacity in her.
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And I just think, be audacious. And so sometimes it's going to work out and sometimes it won't.
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And I think sometimes that's how I lean into my ADHD by going well why not what can it hurt yeah,
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and sometimes I'm foolish and eat too much barbecue and other times I write a book so,
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yeah that that comment right there not gonna lie I thought that was a lot of
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characteristics of ADHD before
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I knew I had ADHD I thought were just my quirky little characteristic,
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and now I'm realizing oh my why not was actually ADHD or my you know I know
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I can't eat a certain food because I feel sick but I'm like why not you know
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what's the worst oh I know,
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and a couple hours later I know I get the meat sweats yeah exactly so I wanted
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to you've already kind of addressed this but,
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looking at setbacks in your life or challenges when you come up against a challenge of some sort.
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What do you find helps you in going through the middle of that and overcoming
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that in working past those?
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Yeah. Well, the first 40 years apart, my years were really tough.
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I'm not going to lie. Like,
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Both my parents were ADHD. And, you know, I have talked about this.
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You know, I'm not for parent bashing.
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They were people who did not have their act together.
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I think every one of them, or both of them, see themselves as the good person.
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But somehow, in the mess, it got messy and ugly and damaging.
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So, you know, I was like kind of a kid in the 80s where ADHD kids didn't have,
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ADHD girls did not have ADHD. So I was just dumb.
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And I really thought I was really just dumb because everyone else knew how to work a watch.
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Like I would wear one. I'd just forget to look at it.
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Like i i just really thought i was dumb so it's really not as and there's something
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when edg people are unhealthy they're very egocentric and that egocentricity
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in a parent harms the child,
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it's really no wonder that i married a narcissist,
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and i i want to say this delicately because i don't want to disrespect anyone,
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but it was a hard it was a hard marriage and,
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a lot of adhd people find themselves kind of like but i see who this person
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can be and this the person i married is not evil the person i married has,
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has something that's really difficult that he doesn't understand is kind of limiting his views.
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And it was very difficult i'm not trying to glide over it Some people are married
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to narcissists. It's very damaging.
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Remember, I've been out of that for almost 20 years. So I have a lot of healing
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water that has flowed under that bridge.
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But it was a tough time.
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And I lost myself completely.
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And I remember, I'm getting to answering your question, I promise.
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I remember realizing the marriage wasn't going to work out.
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That if I stayed, in fact, I had a counselor say to me, so do you want your
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kids to marry someone just like their dad they said no and she said how will they know.
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Okay. So I realized that the marriage wasn't going to work out.
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And everything in my culture said, you better make it work out.
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And so I had to go against culture, church. And here's what helped me.
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It was this vision of, I was standing on a hill and I was watching deep storm clouds roll in.
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And i could see them coming and i knew i would have to go into like a like a
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bunker kind of like what do they call them in iowa like a storm shed or shelter
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storm shelter in an underground,
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and then there came a time when i kept saying you're underground right now you're
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just you're just holding everything until you can get out,
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and i kept reminding myself where i was in that journey like you're in the storm
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shelter your only job right now is to hold on to everything just,
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hold on you're stay in the shelter and then there was a time where i'm like
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okay it's time for rebuilding,
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and i had to get out of the shelter and kind of take stock of what i lost like
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oh there was a beautiful oak tree over there it's not there anymore,
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i thought that oak tree would be there forever oh that house that i built that's
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not there anymore and then start the process of cleanup and rebuilding and it
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was that metaphor that kept me,
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knowing where i was and how to how to act.
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There was one point during the divorce, my family disowned me.
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They still don't talk to me because of the divorce.
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And I remember thinking, I am literally alone.
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I have never been this alone without any support at all.
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And I remember thinking, well, this is probably good leadership training.
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It was a weird, random thought. And, but I was like, but I can't do anything with this knowledge.
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I'm in the bunker right now. And I remember watching all these other happy families
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around me just going through life like normal.
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Going, I'm in the bunker. I'm just hoping I survive a storm.
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And so it was that image that kept me understanding where I was and that this
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wasn't going to be forever.
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But there would be this rebuilding that I had to do.
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So I think I just want to thank you for sharing and being open and vulnerable with us.
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I wanted to touch on some of the things that you said to to understand.
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So when you're talking about that image that you had, what I hear you saying
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is that sometimes we're going through a hard time, challenges,
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setbacks, trauma, difficulties.
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And that's not a time to feel like we need to be moving forward and making big
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strides towards our goals.
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That's a time, like you said, to shelter, to shelter in place and to,
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you know, along with that, you said, when you're able to come out of that shelter
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to grieve what you've lost. Yeah.
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Yeah. How do you, can you make a connection? So with kind of sheltering and
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then grieving what you lost, would that be similar to what somebody could do?
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Maybe they are struggling with ADHD with some of the characteristics,
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the symptoms, and they, you know, they've just gotten a diagnosis and there's
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a bit of grief, or maybe the grief comes before that.
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How would you advise somebody who's in that position?
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Uh, so...
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First of all, it's really difficult when you're going through your life,
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you're always feeling that there's something wrong with you and you seek the
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diagnosis and then you get the answer. You're like, well, this explains a lot.
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And then the sadness comes in and you've realized you've been living your life in that shelter.
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You've been living your life there just trying to hold everything together and
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you couldn't rebuild. And all of a sudden you're sad.
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So you're like, I didn't even know I was in the shelter. in the storm this whole
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time and i work with a lot of women who go through this incredible grief of,
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i'm so sad and i'm sad because,
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i i didn't realize how hard i was working and they're sad for their younger
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versions of themselves they're sad for their kids they're sad for their husband
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like there's so much sadness that just kind of starts to develop,
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i always remind them that's part of the rebuilding process.
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Whenever you're feeling grief, it means you've looked at what is and how do I rebuild.
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And that's what you need to do. And like you said at the end there,
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too, that clean up and rebuild.
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And I imagine everyone could interpret this to, you know, fit how they picture it.
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But I picture that cleanup, like you said, of getting rid of toxic shame and,
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you know, having different people around you, finding your people,
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being able to figure out who you are, being able to figure out.
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Like you said, you talk about values and identity development,
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knowing who we are, and then being able to set those boundaries in our life
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that is going to allow us to then rebuild.
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Yeah. Richard Rohr talks about order, reorder, or order, disorder, reorder.
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And he's like, this is all of life. Order, disorder, reorder. Know where you are.
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He's much more eloquent than this but know where you are know that this time
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is a learning time and when you're in disorder don't try to make sense of it you're in disorder,
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and i'm not talking dysregulation edd dysregulation i'm talking about those
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life events that come and they're just yucky and gross and we don't want this,
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stop trying to make meaning just be in the cellar and hold on,
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And then when it's time to reorder it, that's when we step out and we start to go, oh.
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And, you know, that thought I had about, huh, this is probably a good leadership lesson for me.
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But when I was out of the cellar, I could go, yeah, what does it mean to lead?
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And to kind of deal with your people pleasing and to lead as an ADHD female.
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I mean, hopefully this is resonating for those who are listening.
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For me, that piece of the picture that you had, sheltering, grieving,
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cleanup, and rebuild, and then also you said Richard Rohr, order,
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disorder, reorder, is such an important reminder.
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This is something that's been very relevant for me lately and I think,
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with this awareness of that when we are going through those hard times when
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we do need to shelter in place to not put so much pressure on ourselves to be
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a certain way to feel a certain way this is I'll just quickly,
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share in case it's relevant for anybody but just
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just recently my dad died a few months ago and at the same time I got blood
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clots in my shoulder that were unprovoked they didn't know why they were testing
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to see you know if it was tumors or cancer and all these different things and.
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I felt the chaos I felt the disorder I felt like my whole life was falling apart and,
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you know part some of it I felt like you know I should be going I should be
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doing things I should be working harder and all of these things and it wasn't until,
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I came out the other side of it and and my health issue has resolved and I've
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had time to grieve and to process
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and now I can look back and say what was I thinking why would I think that I
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need to be productive in that time I did I needed to shelter I needed to to grieve and to,
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process and so I think that's a really good reminder for everyone listening
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is that if you are going through a hard time if you are dealing with something challenging that,
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not only is it okay, but it's good to be able to have that time to process.
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Yeah. Do you mind if we talk about the deep emotions of grief?
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When you have ADHD, remember our brains are wired to go to our emotional centers first.
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So grief is,
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is unwieldy for us. And, you know, I was watching your face when you were talking.
27:39
It's like you were drowning in emotions.
27:44
Pick emotion, any emotion. Like, you know, you were all over. So many emotions.
27:48
Right? And your ADHD brain was flooded with this.
27:54
And, you know, I just worked with someone yesterday who her husband has cancer.
28:00
And she's like, you know, other people have it harder. I should just be fine.
28:03
Like, wow, you're a jerk.
28:08
To yourself and she kind of giggled but i'm like that's a horrible thing to
28:12
think so do you think that toward me tell me to get on she's like oh definitely not.
28:19
But you hear the double standard like but i should i should be different and,
28:24
i have seen this with adhd women,
28:26
for some reason we internalize internalize and kind of put all that emotion
28:35
kind of i shouldn't be feeling any of this.
28:38
I should be stronger. I should have it together.
28:40
There was one time I was in the middle of the divorce and I was driving down
28:48
Lake Michigan Drive and I prayed and I'm just like, God, I'm breaking.
28:54
I don't know what breaking looks like, but I'm breaking. And I'm just telling
28:57
you I'm breaking because I've never broken before, but I'm breaking.
29:03
Well, all night I couldn't sleep because I had an incredible pain in my and
29:10
by the way I'm lactose intolerant so you know I could have done something stupid
29:14
there but I couldn't sleep because of the pain,
29:17
it was so bad that in the morning I crawled out of my bedroom,
29:22
and I made sure the kids were taken care of I'm like I don't know where I'm
29:27
gonna go maybe it's just maybe my back's out okay.
29:31
I was up all night okay maybe i just need to go to a chiropractor,
29:35
and i'm like i'm angry because i'm like god i said it was breaking a good night's
29:41
sleep would have helped me you know that right oh and it was my birthday um
29:45
this is kind of a low point of my life,
29:48
and i remember getting to the stop sign where i had to either turn right to
29:52
go to the chiropractor or straight to go to er and Thank you.
29:56
I'm like, drive straight. And I'm a person that if I'm in pain or anything,
30:01
like I tend to downplay it.
30:04
Well, I had acute appendicitis. I was in the operation room four hours later. Oh, wow.
30:11
For an emergency epidectomy.
30:13
And that, the surgeon saw what a, just a horrible kind of family system I had
30:22
working for me at the time.
30:24
He gave me an extra day in the hospital.
30:27
I mean, that guy was still, I still, he was so compassionate.
30:32
And I had three days and the gift of morphine. But it was three days out of
30:39
that system that allowed me to clear my head, ironically, morphine aside.
30:44
And I healed just fine from it.
30:48
But those three days gave me more clarity. Does that make sense?
30:51
Absolutely. And it was like this wonderful...
30:54
Gift that I would not have asked for, but that I need it.
30:59
Because I came out of there seeing things so much more clearly.
31:06
And yeah, I think that's too a reminder of, I think so often,
31:10
if we get to choose, we're not going to choose brokenness. We're not going to
31:14
choose, you know, that time of saying, hey, how about you?
31:17
Yeah, pain and sickness and things like that. But even in those times,
31:22
God can kind of rework them and give you that time in such a strange way if
31:27
you really look at it, right?
31:28
You're saying, I'm broken. And then you're like, why are you giving me this?
31:30
He's like, wait, just one second.
31:33
I was like, I promise. There's a hope at the end. Yeah.
31:37
Yeah. No, and even, yeah. Recently too, when you say that part about brokenness,
31:42
I think it kind of got to that point for me too of, it felt like I had exhausted all of my resources.
31:48
And I say, you know, I can't deal with this chaos and this disorder and things
31:52
like that. And I think for anyone who's listening is that.
31:57
The brokenness, the chaos, the disorder, they are hard, they feel hard, and that is very real.
32:06
And it's also real that, you know, with time, with the right supports and help
32:12
and working through things, that there can also be hope on the other side of things.
32:16
And that often I've seen, you know, I've seen in other people in my own journey
32:21
as well, is that sometimes it's our struggles it's our challenges our difficulties
32:26
that we can then use to bless others in the future to
32:29
to help others to walk alongside others i actually recently did,
32:34
an episode about the positive side of rejection sensitivity and that might sound
32:40
a little strange but essentially just saying that yes it is very challenging but when we are able to,
32:48
use how deeply we feel and the compassion and the empathy that we have to then,
32:54
help understand others and show that compassion to them it can actually be there
32:59
can be a positive you know at the end yeah,
33:03
all right you know you're talking like someone who's gone through some deep waters right.
33:10
I mean that's yeah yeah and that's,
33:14
I think that's, I mean, when I show up to my Life 101 as a learner,
33:21
and this is after the storm passes, right?
33:24
Because this isn't during the storm. During the storm, I'm in the bunker going,
33:27
ah, this is horrible. This is horrible.
33:31
But afterwards, I'm like, I gain knowledge I would never have had.
33:36
I have compassion that I never would have had.
33:40
I i can do my work better because of what i've experienced and that is is the gift,
33:51
and it's a sucky gift sometimes i mean yeah it's just you pay you pay high prices.
34:00
Absolutely yeah yeah so i want to i want to kind of shift gears a little bit
34:04
here so we talked about some of the challenges the setbacks order disorder reorder
34:10
or like you said the shelter,
34:12
when you come out grieving what you lost and then the cleanup and rebuild what
34:15
about as far as i think this is another thing that as women with adhd we can struggle with is,
34:21
celebrating our wins celebrating our accomplishments you know and i don't just
34:26
mean you know the the bigger things of speaking on a stage and writing a book
34:30
and stuff like that but celebrating how far we've come in relationships.
34:36
Even in our own inner dialogue.
34:38
So I wanted to hear your perspective. How do you celebrate how far you've come?
34:45
Okay, this is quirky as heck. And if there's a psychotherapist listening,
34:49
please don't send me an email about this, okay?
34:53
But when I was 12, it was a really hard time in my life.
34:57
My parents were divorced, and I had to run away from one parent to force the
35:04
hand to have the other parent take custody.
35:07
And it was the first time I really had to stand up for myself and leave everything else behind.
35:14
And so that 12-year-old is still in there.
35:18
And she had to be strong when she didn't want to be. She's 12, right?
35:23
I mean, she was still like, do I play with dolls?
35:27
You know, I was a tomboy.
35:29
And some of your peers are starting to like boys, but I'm ADC running behind,
35:34
you know, all that stuff.
35:35
Meanwhile, I'm negotiating my freedom.
35:38
So i have a talk with that 12 year old and sometimes i journal to her i'm like hey girl look what we did.
35:49
I get teary-eyed no it's good yeah because it's like we did it,
35:56
and we shouldn't have been able to be successful but we did it so,
36:03
so yeah that's so here's the quirky part i have her answer back to me,
36:09
and then we we have a dialogue like on the page and i know it sounds quirky but it's a way that,
36:16
i don't want to compare myself to anyone else because this is my journey but,
36:23
the 12 year old he's proud so yeah i think that's i know you call it quirky
36:28
but i think that's i think that's really beautiful and i think there's something that's healing about.
36:33
Going back especially to a time that was pivotal that was traumatic in our childhood
36:41
in our past and like you said that's allowing you to then,
36:44
i imagine that would bring healing within that as well as to look back,
36:49
to that time right i mean right away when you said that i thought oh yeah i
36:53
could think back to you know what version of me i would go back to and say hey you are enough and I'm
37:00
like, wow, look at what, at this time you didn't know, look at what we would
37:02
be able to do. I think that's, I think that's really beautiful.
37:06
Yeah. It's why I can't talk about it without getting teary-eyed because,
37:10
one, I'm ADHD. Emotions are on the surface all the time.
37:14
But two, it's so, been so deeply healing.
37:18
It is a way to kind of bless yourself, which is okay to do.
37:23
It's like, girl, you didn't know this. Like you said, you didn't know this.
37:27
We figured it out. mm-hmm so i talked about that in my second book a little
37:33
bit you me and our adhc family and how i wanted a happy family and so more than
37:40
success she wanted a happy family.
37:44
And I have one so there you go so grateful yeah yeah yeah to look at that with that.
37:51
Like you said that awareness of the reality of those struggles and then also,
37:57
that dream come true of having that beautiful family that you were hoping for
38:01
even if the journey didn't you know our journeys are not linear we don't think
38:06
linear our journeys are typically not we live in a broken world that is,
38:11
you know there's lots of different paths that we can take and I think that's
38:15
it got real messy it's really beautiful I think another part that I really appreciate about,
38:19
the way that you're saying you you celebrate how far you've come is that brings
38:23
so much more depth to it I think a lot of times we picture somebody saying oh
38:28
yeah like I treated myself to an ice cream and I had this or whatever and and,
38:33
that's fine if if that's what works and I'm not I'm not trying to diss any of that.
38:38
But I think this brings a whole new depth to that kind of celebration,
38:43
celebrating genuinely the fact that,
38:46
in those hard times, you know, you learned to stand up for yourself,
38:51
for your family, to build towards that family that you were really hoping for.
38:56
And that, that, you know, metric of success, there's all sorts of different metrics of success.
39:02
It's not just about finances and you know being published and things like that
39:06
there's there's relationships as well and i think that's that's really beautiful,
39:11
yeah um it's it's why i started i mean i literally started off my second book my second book actually.
39:18
I was more autobiographical in and that was my kind of sharing my hopes and
39:25
dreams on do you want a successful family here's how you do it Here's the things I learned along the way.
39:33
And yeah, it's just in that some ways, the second book is even more personal.
39:40
So I up the ante on the vulnerable. I can't wait for the next one.
39:46
Yeah, well, oh dear. Oh, Bernie Brown, where are you when I need you?
39:50
I'll make sure I bring my tissues with me next time.
39:54
Yeah, thank you. Yeah.
39:56
I lost my other chain of thought. So I was just going to say,
39:59
how do you feel like ADHD has benefited you in your life?
40:05
So whether it's contributed to your success or is how do you feel like it's
40:09
been a positive part of your journey?
40:11
I think so often as women with ADHD, we're told about the negatives and we said,
40:17
hey, yeah, you interrupt too much and you do this too much. And you're just
40:20
you're just too much of everything. And I don't think you're little. Yes.
40:24
And too much, too little, too late to all the things.
40:28
And I don't believe that for a second. And so I want to hear how you believe
40:33
ADHD has actually been a positive force in your life. Yeah.
40:37
So, OK, before I can answer this, I have to say the research is.
40:44
Doesn't say that there's positives to having ADHD in the modern era.
40:50
Modern era is the key here. So in a society that values time,
40:55
structure, linear thought sequencing, we're not well suited.
41:02
Okay. So every day, if I use that as my yardstick,
41:09
I'm sad because my short-term memory, that's stupid like it's just my short-term
41:15
memory is ridiculous like what short-term memory right.
41:19
I'm amazed how i can forget things i don't like like i just got teary-eyed i
41:25
i hate that right that's part of an adhd experience too so there's so many things i hate about adhd,
41:33
and it's not a superpower,
41:36
but when i finally embrace it she's that crazy kid and i'm shocked you know
41:44
i'm in my late 50s and i'm shocked how i don't feel like that,
41:51
in fact there's sometimes i'm just like doing things and i'm so amazed at how
41:56
old some of my neurotypical friends are I'm like, girlfriend,
42:00
you're old. Like, what are you doing?
42:03
It's because their brain registers risks and all these things differently than I do.
42:09
I'm like, ah, we can do it. We'll figure it out. Why not? Yeah, why not?
42:14
And so I think one of my ADHD, I call them quirks, not strengths, that I kind of like is the.
42:25
I don't think I'm going to age the same way. Does that make sense?
42:30
Because life is still super fun for me.
42:33
And every day is kind of a bit of magic. And every day is kind of like,
42:37
well, what surprises are we going to have?
42:40
And like, yes, a couple of days ago. Oh, it was just yesterday.
42:43
In fact, it was such a busy day.
42:46
We're getting a lot of things done in our house. So many people were at my house.
42:50
My dogs were getting out. I'm chasing dogs. I'm answering dumb questions.
42:55
I'm trying to get ready for a client.
42:57
And I just stopped and I laughed and went, oh, we're playing on a hard level
43:01
today. Okay. I didn't know.
43:05
And I'm like, okay, so I'm playing at the expert level. Got it.
43:09
And that's the other quirk that I love. It's like, I find a lot of things funny.
43:16
I find almost everything funny. Now, my ADHD quirks are not your ADHD quirks,
43:21
but those are two that I just kind of like.
43:25
And i yeah i i can feel it though now that i'm in my late 50s how neurotypicals
43:33
are aging and they're like well we don't do that anymore i'm like why not.
43:39
I know why because you can break something when you do it but why not test your
43:44
bone density but just joking but anyway i so those are two that i like so,
43:52
to your listeners i would say you know think about the adhd kind of quirks that
43:57
you're kind of like you know what this isn't a strength this is one of the things
44:02
that just delights me about adhd,
44:04
and oh the other thing i like about my adhd and i write about it in the first
44:08
book is the divergent thinking,
44:11
and i write that it can make me look like a genius sometimes and a total fool
44:15
other times because i see connections where there might be or might not be Thank you.
44:21
I love that. I think that's a good perspective to have, too,
44:25
of looking at our own unique traits, characteristics, whether you call them
44:30
strengths or quirks, whatever you want to call them.
44:33
But I think, too, what you made me think about when you were saying that was
44:37
the fact that using the word strengths, I feel like is very circumstantial, right?
44:43
Because some of those things that you said, those are strengths in different circumstances, right?
44:50
And so I think that's, that's what's, that's what's tricky, but it's figuring
44:54
out, you know, what are the parts of who we are and we're not all just ADHD.
45:00
That's not everything of who we are. That's a part of who we are and how we function, how we think.
45:04
But I think looking at which parts do we appreciate?
45:09
When do we appreciate those? How can we be doing work or have friendships or
45:15
relationships or a life that kind of fits around that? Like when you said,
45:18
I love that expert level. We're on an expert level today. You gamify it a little bit.
45:23
And so I think just to end us off here, I wanted to know what advice would you
45:30
give to those who are struggling with their ADHD journey? Yeah.
45:37
So...
45:38
If you're a female, I'm guessing a lot of your listeners are females,
45:43
I want you to understand you're the problem.
45:47
You're not being nice to yourself.
45:50
And you have to start there. And I say that to my clients, like, you're the problem.
45:55
Oh, great. That's not what I wanted to hear. But you are because you're framing.
45:59
You're so unkind to yourself.
46:02
You strap yourself with this burden of all these shoulds.
46:06
And you're kind to so many other people but you are not giving yourself a break,
46:12
so the really it starts with self-compassion self-compassion is not taking a
46:18
hot bath that's taking a hot bath and it feels good great,
46:22
but self-compassion is this you know what tara you're playing on expert level
46:28
today we you crashed out a couple times but that's okay you ran out of lives I used to play,
46:38
a dumb game on my phone with my kids called Diner Dash.
46:42
And so I imagine my game like Diner Dash. I don't know if you guys ever play
46:46
it. It's like you have five hearts or.
46:51
The people in the restaurant have hearts and they're burning through their hearts
46:54
because they're getting mad at you and you can't move enough to serve them food.
46:59
It's an ADHD metaphor for my life.
47:02
I kind of imagine that. I'm like, yep, people burned through hearts today.
47:06
You didn't serve enough food. And you know what?
47:09
Today's done. You did it.
47:12
So you got through today. That was the only day you had to get through.
47:15
So tomorrow could still be magical. I also, if I have a bad day,
47:20
by the way, ADHD people have a lot of bad days.
47:23
We just don't feel up. And like, you know, tomorrow could still be magical.
47:29
If you remember to look for it, look for it.
47:33
And I'm just talking about like life is magical, right? I have a new grandson.
47:39
I didn't tell you that, but I have a grandson.
47:42
Oh, gosh. And I love seeing my daughter become a mother, like all this.
47:47
Love it. Love, love, love.
47:49
Her husband is such a wonderful father. Love all that.
47:53
But, you know, I forget how addicting babies are.
47:59
They trap you. It's a scam. It's a total scam that babies do this.
48:03
They hook you in with that smile and then you will walk on broken glass to get
48:08
to them and that's where he's at right now he he'll look and i'm like yep this
48:13
is grand and he smiles i'm like oh i will walk through broken glass for him,
48:18
so it's just delightful but it's it's magic watching him like he's only four
48:24
months old this is magic and just not getting distracted by all the emails that I have to do. Yeah.
48:33
Yeah. I think that what I hear out of what you said is...
48:37
I mean, having that self-compassion, being kinder to ourselves,
48:40
and also kind of that reset button of when something happens,
48:45
when there's a conversation that we
48:47
leave and then we're ruminating and catastrophizing and all these things about
48:51
it to just stop and say, you know what?
48:53
I have some really great conversations. And some conversations,
48:57
maybe I say or do things that I'm not proud of, but I get to start over.
49:01
And hopefully I get to have maybe another conversation with that person,
49:05
or maybe I get to try again with somebody else or that reset at the end of the day.
49:09
I think that's such an important reminder instead of bringing in the shame and
49:14
the guilt and that inner critic day to day to day. And I think,
49:18
too, the other part of what you said was seeing the beauty in small moments.
49:24
It was something my psychologist said the other day, actually.
49:27
She said, look for moments of connection.
49:29
I was really struggling with all that disorder in my life. And I wanted connection
49:34
with people, but I didn't have the capacity to foster any of that.
49:38
And she said, look for those little moments, like you said, with your grandson,
49:42
those moments with your daughter, with a friend.
49:45
And even here today, these moments of connection instead of expecting,
49:49
like you said, we do have a lot of,
49:51
bad days where we feel low and feel down and discouraged, but to find those
49:56
moments of connection, those moments of beauty or magic, as you called them. Yeah.
50:02
All right. Is there anything else you would like to leave us with today for
50:07
our conversation? Oh, you know what? I just, I really want your listeners to
50:12
know, like, their brains aren't broken. They're different.
50:18
And it is true. You are ill-adapted to modern life.
50:23
That's okay. But it's not a deserted island. Man, we're making coconut radios.
50:28
We're doing crazy things.
50:30
And a lot of us with ADHD are really a lot of fun and so I just I want them
50:38
to be kinder to themselves and I forget to be kind to myself all the time so
50:43
I'm not saying I've arrived anywhere,
50:46
that's that's why we need the reminder right right I haven't arrived anywhere I'm still learning,
50:53
you know I'm in the second half of life and trying to figure out like oh what
50:57
do I need to kind of what did I build that wasn't great how do I need to rebuild
51:02
that what are some beliefs that I have that aren't helping me right now,
51:06
and so that's what I'm doing and I'm a dedicated lifelong learner and I'm hoping
51:13
that your listeners will do the same,
51:15
absolutely I hope so too I will continue to pass it along and I will take that
51:21
to heart as well to be kinder to myself thank you so much for taking the time to be with us here today.
51:26
Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for sharing about your rough patch.
51:30
I think that helps your listeners a lot.
51:33
I hope so. Well, I look forward to talking to you again when that new book is
51:37
coming out. Until then. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Thanks for being here.