Latest / The Splitting Atoms Podcast / Ep 15 | The Power of Perspective with Josef Freundorfer

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Ep 15 | The Power of Perspective with Josef Freundorfer · The Splitting Atoms Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're all pursuing stories, and what really makes it work is the beauty of this story, right?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like it captures you, like the details, everything fit together in a way that is almost incredible.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: What if some of our greatest strengths come not from choosing one path, but from embracing many different perspectives?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Engineering, theater, entrepreneurship, leadership.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: At first glance, they may seem unrelated, but perhaps it's our willingness to learn from different experiences that gives us the ability to see opportunities others may miss.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: The nuclear story is so vast and broad.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Just about anyone in society right now, regardless of education level, can come and be a part of it.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: It just means you want to be a part of making the world a better place.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Today, Joseph Freindorfer shares how a lifetime of curiosity and embracing different perspectives has shaped the way he leads and the way he sees the world.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Join me as I split atoms with Joseph Freindorfer.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Joseph, to the Splitting Adams Podcast Studio.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for making the drive-in this morning through the rain.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh every time that we have spoken, I've learned a little bit more that you are not someone who thinks in straight lines, I don't think.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think you are someone who thinks from a multi-perspective lens.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited to kind of see how that was shaped through your story.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Before we do, would you introduce us just a high-level 60-second rundown of Nuclea, the company that you are CEO of today?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, thanks.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so great to be here, too.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love the building, love the surroundings.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: You have a phenomenal team, and I'm looking forward to engaging in this.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: This is great.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: So Nuclea Energy.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: We are an advanced nuclear technology developer based here in Mississauga.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're Canadian, and we're looking to really push forward the new technologies of nuclear for future.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: We've got our flagship Morpheus reactor, which is a four-megawatt electric, lead-cooled graphite-moderated reactor.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Very advanced technology, but very small and compact in design, that's really conceived of for deployment in the high Arctic, but could be deployed just about anywhere else on the world.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's going to solve some of the great constraints in energy we have here in Canada, as well as bring energy to prosperity to many places where there's current energy poverty.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that, amongst other things that we're working on, is really going to push the bounds of nuclear for Canada, but also for the world.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we're very excited to be doing this.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great time to be in the industry.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's an exciting thing because you think of the technology, the impact that it's going to have in the lives that's going to change in the communities, that it's really going to start rearranging kind of what is an option for them and what is possible for them.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's exciting for anyone to get behind, whether you love the technology side or not.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus Who doesn't love that?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's just a good news story.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Absolutely.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And nuclear has always been about more than just the technology.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like you sell a product.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: You almost sell a culture.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: You sell advancement, you sell society, you sell academia.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: And any place that moves towards nuclear gets all of these benefits beyond just the reactor that comes in or the fuel technology that comes in.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's all built in together.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's part of the great story that nuclear is and how it's shaped the world we are today, but much more impressively where the world's going.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell I agree.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when I speak to you, I know I'm speaking to you today as a CEO.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: You of course are an engineer.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see just those parts of you.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really do see someone who is very good at looking through multiple lenses.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: You seem like a multi-perspective type of guy.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to start peeling back the layers of how did that come to be and what experiences really shaped that within you?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's not only why you've been very successful in your career, but why you're also now being a very successful leader in your role today.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So take me back, you grew up, uh, Austrian family.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And both perspectives right from the beginning, because you had a very academic father and that influence.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: But then you had grandparents who were you were very close with, and your family overall that were very hands-on.
• 4:13
  unknown: Yes.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you had both those influences, the academia, the theory and the learning, as well as learning by doing.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Walk me through that kind of childhood and how it influences you.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Absolutely.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I grew up in Kingston, Ontario, not too far from Toronto, in an Austrian-Slovenian family, which is quite unique, like especially in going to through elementary school and meeting people from all over the world, especially the Canadians who are a wide variety of different nationalities mixed together.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there I was with four grandparents from within 500 kilometers of each other within Europe.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And a pretty, I would call now a European upbringing, like very traditional in that sense.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: But it also lent to that broader vision, I think, of how we were raised.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of that both comes from my parents, especially my dad, who is a professor of engineering at Queen's University, but also my mom, who would very much push us to explore sports, explore academics, explore arts, a wide variety of arts that my siblings and I were pushed to.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it really formed the foundation of a very broad understanding of reality that we got to play within.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that was foundational in my younger years to move forward.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then, as you mentioned, very practically so.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like we were raised, you know, helping out with home renovations, peeling wallpaper.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: One of my distinct memories was my dad's parents needed their house roofed in Berry.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: So myself, my brothers, and my dad, and one of our uncles went over for a week and we worked through the removal of cedar shingles, the challenges we faced with what we uncovered, and then the solutions we did all on the fly while you're removing this roof from a house and rebuilding a new one in a very tight timeline because that's all the time you had left.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And all of that mixed together to produce, I think, a really good childhood to really explore and flourish within.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think something comes naturally to you, or it's maybe uh a natural attribute that some have that maybe others struggle with to move so easily between those perspectives of like the learning and the arts as well as kind of hands-on and the practical side of things?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think it's something someone uh a skill set that can be developed, or a little bit of both?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell I I I personally see it as a bit of both.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh between myself and my brothers, like we're all very hands-on, very practical, as well as a bit abstract and intellectual.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And yet for some things each of us struggled with and others found to be quite easy.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, I guess through growing up together and being permitted to pursue these different passions or interests, we gained an appreciation to both appreciate what we weren't good at, but as well as what someone else was good at.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: So a good example is I was quite good in elementary school and high school in visual arts, painting, um, working with my hands.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I had learned a lot of that from my brother, who was really good in that field.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I had a separate brother who is exceptional with the piano.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas for me, I struggled with anything instrumental to my great detriment.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I really learned to appreciate it and understand how he would see things because we were all quite close and you communicated a lot.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: And there's that transfer of knowledge, as well as being a part of this wider group where maybe you struggled with something, but it didn't mean you couldn't appreciate or even partake in it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd say on that side, I think it broadened me to be open towards the experience of developing things, but also an appreciation for the work that others do who might not be able to do it so naturally or who might be more natural.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because we're gonna we're gonna touch on a story later in our conversation that really highlights the importance of understanding and respecting what others are doing on a job and appreciating that.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so as as I'm I'm listening to you, I think what's being developed early in your story is this uh multi-layered or this ability to kind of um move through those things, but also to appreciate others that shows up so much in the career you have and the choice of your parents to introduce you to those different things from a very early age, even if it was a natural attribute in the beginning, you just started honing that skill and kind of making the most of it right from the beginning, really.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And now eventually, if your parents were very influential and and the family unit that you grew up in on starting to develop that, there comes a time where we have to make our own decisions.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those decisions for you was where you were going to go to school for post-secondary.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Talk me through because you not only chose a career or uh a university, sorry, that was about academia, but you also really looked at it in the environment that you wanted to step into when you were going through schooling.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So walk me through that decision to go over to um McGill, I think you landed it.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it was a very interesting one because I did quite well academically speaking through my high school years as part of a high school in Kingston that had the International Baccalaureate Program.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, very driven.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think I at that time wanted to pursue something more technical.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't really know where I wanted to go, like a lot of questions, as many people in high school have.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And my dad, effectively, as you know, university professor in electrical engineering, was like, you have what it takes to become an engineer.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I would recommend you go down that path.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then we worked together and we found out a nice list of five universities in Canada.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I did the routine, visited all the universities, gained an appreciation for them, put in applications, and then before having to decide and hearing back about decisions, um, I ended up traveling Europe.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I spent a few weeks in Europe, visited family, did a bit of backpacking, visited some friends, loved the experience, and I think it resonated with me in terms of the culture and the slightly different lifestyle that they have, that in a weird way I grew up in in a strange way.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And when the decision came to choose the university of choice, I actually ended up choosing more based on that context and culture of that European experience that resonated with me when I visited Montreal.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: So in a strange way, I McGill taught university in Canada, especially its mechanical engineering program, which I got into, thankfully.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I ended up choosing it more based off of that experience of Montreal.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: The setting.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: The setting, the context, the culture, the life, the energy.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I found through my time at McGill, it supported and supplemented a lot of the rigor of the engineering program there.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel to this day, I still don't regret that decision.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like the capacity to aim for both sides of things and really make it work.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think sometimes we spend so much time contemplating, okay, what school do I want?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like academically, what career, what organization should I work for?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: What job title should I be aiming for?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it would be advantageous if we also spent a little more time as individuals thinking, what environment do I want?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: What setting do I want?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And how is the context of that culture also going to allow me to grow?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: If I need certain schooling or I need certain job requirements or salary or whatever it is, I also need to be cognizant of the setting that is going to change me, make me grow, make me happy.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: How important do you think?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think we give enough attention to that sometimes as individuals?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: I would say professionally, it's a real challenge.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's very much comes from the views of your family and friends that influence you on those matters as to whether you think deeply about this, whether you prioritize them.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: I would say when you look at a career and a pathway and you know where you want to get to, how you get there is a little less predictable.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of the influence in succeeding comes from that which influences you on the way.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that is that context, that ability to see things from different perspectives, take the learnings from challenges, the lessons learned, as we like to call it in the industry, typically come from the context of the situation that the problem arises in, right?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And those lessons learned are of great value, as we know within the industry, but they come from that team, that area around you that helps you figure out whether you made the right decision, the wrong decision, and how to move forward.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: And to take that into consideration in terms of how you go from A to B, I think is underrated, but is very important too in development, because you'd want to leave room for passions that are a bit beyond your career, but might you know cross-fertilize your pathway.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think back to my dad as an engineering professor who had deep and broad perspective through his research with the university, we'd have these conversations, and in a weird way, now I look back and I almost see him trying to like convey wisdom to me.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things he was saying was very much that in a way, RD and innovation comes from the cross-fertilization of disparate ideas or concepts.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you're strategic about how you want that innovation to happen, you can put yourselves in situations where you can cross-fertilize your mind.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not going to be a logical conclusion, but it'll lead to almost like a to intuitive inspiration, the type that wakes you up at night.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you can do that by creating a life that's broad in terms of where you find the inspirations and the movement from.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: And in a weird way, I feel that goes back to how my parents raised me, where it's like there was emphasis on academia, academic rigor and pri was prioritized.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: But on the flip side, it wasn't to the detriment of the arts, athletics, business, um, figuring out friends, even religion, philosophy, psychology, the three interests of mine.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that allows you to both create perspectives, but come up with novel ideas.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you view problems as patterns, different cultures and contexts solve the patterns in different ways.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: But if you overlap those patterns together, you can come up with very novel solutions to a problem that might have stumped a pattern in a particular context.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: I know that's a bit abstract, but it's it's a very novel way of approaching things.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very grateful to my dad for having, you know, conveyed certain ideas and concepts that have challenged me ever since.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like I know the answer to that or I can see it clearly, but in a way it forces me to try and connect different things together in the pursuit of success, in the pursuit of problem solving and helping others.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that has been a huge support in my life.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell I like this concept of having a breadth or um a real depth of interests and areas where you allow your mind to go, because as you've said, and what I take from it is you never really know how that will influence beyond its area of focus.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I immediately think of like my love of Disney, which seems so silly, right, in in the work that I do now.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I would be as good at being a storyteller or building a setting.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you really think of Disney World, for example, which was what I really love about Disney, is Disney World and the parks.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: The way that they were able to build this setting that to every little detail really told the same story and built a brand, I don't know if I would be in in this industry.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I would have learned as much as I did just self-taught about marketing and brand development and what goes into building a story and writing.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I watch speeches of like famous, you know, orators and things like that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so it really sticks with me what you're saying about embracing that breadth of possibility and of curiosity, because you never really know how it's going to intersect in other areas of your life and other interests, including career.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell Absolutely.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I I like what you just said too, in that it's almost like if you look at it from the lens of storytelling, we're all pursuing stories.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And what really makes it work is the beauty of this story, right?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like it captures you, like the details, everything fit together in a way that is almost incredible.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you're awestruck by that, and you want to contribute.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: And in the same way, I'd say through my career, I've seen that on many levels.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: As an operator, you're very much in the story of this building, this reactor, which contributes to the broader story for us here in Ontario.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And each reactor is almost like its own person.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: It has a personality, whether you're a control room operator, a unit operator, fuel handler, or unit zero operator.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: You contribute to a very personal story within that reactor, which is tied to a multi-reactor plant.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's that day in and day out.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes it's humdrum and a bit mundane, but in the same time, that's like life.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you strike at the beauty of that at different times, especially in times of challenge and struggle in or areas of very complex situations.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like one memory I have of working is, and this is due to our very novel uh like fuel handling equipment we have here, because our can do reactors fuel online.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we're one of the few peoples in the world that have people that handle nuclear fuel on a daily basis.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Unlike reactors around the world that are refueled every year, every year and a half, every two years, where the teams show up and they handle that.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: We have on-site people that deal with fuel, deal with the radiation, the complexity that comes with those systems.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And every now and again we'd have these evolutions where we would be pulling reactor components off of the reactor with our fueling machines, and they would drop them into the bays, onto our gantries, and we would have to work to receive them.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the first time some of these components would have come off of the reactor into an environment as we were in.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the rigor and complexity associated with the logistics of getting you to that point is incredible.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: The amount of safety protocols, the amount of engineering input, the amount of operational input, the amount of signatures going high up the food chain to get you to that point.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then you find yourself in a plastic suit, air hose with a couple guys around you, incredible support from the control room, incredible RP protection, and the parts start coming out, you have all your radiation reading devices, and it's just incredible that you can make something like that happen.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's an I would almost say it's a natural part of operating a plant, but very unique to our Canadian story.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're there and the radiation doses are going, you're going through your tight-knit evolution and parts are coming out and you're receiving them, you're packing them, you're dealing with the contamination, and a couple hours go by and you've been in a suit the whole time, and then it's done.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: How do you leave?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now you go through this extremely rigorous RP process to make sure you're safe getting out, you're not causing any problems, RP's coming in to support.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's absolutely an incredible experience.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the next thing you know, you're in you're in the calf, you know, talking it off with some of the guys there, or talking with guys from different crews about the cool stuff they've done.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: And there's multiple evolutions going on at the plant at the same time.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's a beautiful thing to be a part of.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it goes back to what you're saying.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like when you can see the details of the story around you living out, it gives you an appreciation for where you are and an understanding of where your part is in that bigger picture and a respect for that, and then a desire to make that even better.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something that is just incredible.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so grateful for the experience I've had through my time in the career that have led to that.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's it's I don't know, in a weird way, I feel like I seek those experiences out.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like once you've felt that, and like multi-million or multi-billion dollar projects like our refurbishments have been here in Canada, you it opens you up to possibility.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it opens you up to broad and expansive visions and bold visions.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you saw some of the most advanced, complicated, and complex multi-billion dollar projects in the world take place in front of you with the ups and the downs, because there's a lot of downs in making those projects work, it's like, well, if we can do that, we we can do a whole lot more than that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Sky's the limit.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: The sky is the limit.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the sky is as much as you can imagine and envision, right?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, let's go.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like let's make stuff happen.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell I think you described it to me once almost like a SWAT team.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Your dependency, and you touched on it a little bit there, your dependency on everyone else doing their job and doing it well, but also allowing you to do yours.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So this appreciation and this respect for what everyone has to do, I'm pretty sure you described it like a SWAT team.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it is.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: In a weird way, like through my time as a fuel handling operator, especially, it's like some of the stuff that we went through and the level the level of competence on the team to deal with ever-changing situations live where you know you had to operate to the highest standards and you had to deal with things changing around you is just like it's like an experience you can't think of in the world.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's and to be a part of a team like that makes you feel like you are at the highest cusp of that technical profession.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I would say in the world.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think reactors like the Can Do, where you're able to be a part of that on a daily basis, allows the team to hone in and develop that, but also permeated into the culture of the plant.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: The RP protection of the plant, the fundamentals and operator training, how the control room handles things, I think is all beneficiary to that.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: And in a weird way, I don't want to sound selfish, but I felt we in fuel handling and our operations and maintenance or our RP and maintenance support were very much the SWAT team of radiation and fuel.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's about, you know, bragging or anything.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that you took the pride in your work in that way.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think everyone should feel that level of accomplishment in what they do because I I don't care what your role is, and I know some feel maybe more intense than others.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you're in a different situation than let's say someone who's making sure payroll is going out for an organization like Bruce Power.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: But both so vitally important, and we will bring it back, you're all different characters in this story that is being written that's allowing this change to ripple through the world and for moments like yours to happen.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny when when we've talked previously about your experience with fuel handling and the way you've you've kind of talked about how everyone has to do their job really, really well, and we have to allow others to do theirs, and it is with this high competency, and when things need to pivot or change, we have to act very quickly and trust one another.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I, of course, being a Formula One junkie, I think of the same thing as a pit stop.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: You've got eight people on that crew, a car coming in, and a pit stop officially starts, the car lands in the pit in the pit uh box, it's jacked up, all four tires are taken off simultaneously, new tires put on, it's rejacked on or um you know re-re-affixed to the car, the car is dropped and then the car leaves and goes to the box.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Every single person in that has to do their job really, really well, but allow someone else to do theirs.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: They have to know where everyone's.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if if something goes wrong with a jack, you've got to step in and help.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: But could you imagine we wouldn't have 1.2 and all that happens in 1.2 to 1.3 seconds ideally.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Insane.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then you look at a team like Red Bull, who they of course just go off and they think, what's the craziest thing we can do?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll do that.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: They've done a pit stop completely in the dark, uh with no lights, and they did one in a gravity chamber with zero gravity.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just to do it, right?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, Red Bull, you know.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think of how much of a mess that stop would be if I'm you know the front left jackman or um mechanic taking off that tire, and I think, oh, you know what, I'll just go around to the left side of the car and see what they're doing over there.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Or I'm just gonna try and do it a little different this time.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna step out of the dance.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think of that same thing.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's just what made me think of your story when you were telling me about that SWAT experience, that that SWAT-like experience.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is the amount of respect and appreciation and understanding you have to have for everyone on your team and what they're doing, and then you focus on executing really well on your end.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: That is a lesson that can transcend, I don't care what your job is, but it's very important in an organization.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's for morale for everything.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Absolutely.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love that.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell And I felt like another good example of this was uh while I was working the Unit 6 refurbishment at Bruce Power, we're in the Retube Control Center.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think we had about 150 tradesmen running through there, operating through there, operating in it with robotics.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: And very complex work we were doing, you know, let's say it's a series where we're removing N fittings, and it's like the evolutions are tight.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's robotics, humans working in simultaneous order, but then maybe something happens.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, how do you troubleshoot that?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: How do you problem solve that?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: How do you escalate it up the line?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all critical path work.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, you know, I think it was a$2.6 billion project, you know, like one of the largest infrastructure projects in the world, and you're right there and it's night shift and everything's going crazy.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you'd figure out how to do it.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: And in a weird way, there's a lot of give and take, there's a lot of work between people, between organizations to make that happen.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a testament to our industry that we have not just succeeded in that, but we have turned these refurbishments almost into pit stops, where it's like every time we're hitting new new boundaries, we're moving in new robotics, we're almost doing it in new ways, like you suggest, in order to do it better and to be a part of those teams.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I know there's thousands of people here in Ontario currently working, probably at this second, doing these.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's like an incredible testament to what we have built here, and but also an incredible testament to us as people to be able to work so closely together.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you do like four or five night shifts in a row and it's demanding and the pressure's on, and you know, sometimes you don't want to be there.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like a horrible experience, but you know it sticks with you.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And when it's all said and done, and I'm not on refurbishments anymore, I'm CEO of a nuclear company, but it's um you look back and you go, like, I can't believe we did that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that those lessons learned, that capability, that human capital is really what makes the ecosystem here in Canada so great.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: I would say likely we might have one of the strongest construction-focused nuclear sectors because of these refurbishments in the Western world, just because we've successfully done it repetitively with changes.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a perfect replacement.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: These refurbishments don't go unit to unit, it's perfectly the same, and you refine.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many challenges you take into consideration and make it work across many massive projects and the hundreds of small projects that support them.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: That is a really challenging thing to do, but it's a testament to where we are today here in Ontario and what we're capable of in the future by virtue of doing that hard work for the last decade and a half.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's incredible, like just incredible.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I I make the joke, and I don't know if it's a joke anymore, but I think what we need as an industry is a television show.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: We need like a Gray's Anatomy or an X-Files called the Core, you know, something you know, we'd we'd liven it up for TV, but but just because listening to you talk about this, number one, we see things like the Scully effect, where a television show comes out, and I'm sure there was the Gray's Anatomy effect, right, where we see these individuals in roles and exponential new people wanting to enter that industry.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Especially for Scully, we saw uh such an increase of women entering STEM-based careers.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, first and foremost, for workforce preparedness, we need a television show to get people to be like, hey, look at this cool stuff happening.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: We need a Scully effect of our own.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell I would agree with that.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the stuff that I've seen through my career, it's like if I hadn't gone down the nuclear path, I couldn't have fathomed what I was able to witness.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And some of what you actually are able to get, you put your hands on.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just absolutely incredible the experiences you can go through.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And as a fuel handling operator, and one of the reasons I became a fuel handling operator is because I wanted to be right where nuclear was.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: In the nuclear is at the fuel, it's at the radiation.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a challenging place to be able to operate.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like you learn so much, and that blue glow from the fuel is just astounding.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: But what I learned to appreciate a whole lot more is the blue grow of cobalt.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like cobalt 60 is just incredible.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: And have to have done multiple cobalt harvests at Bruce Power and the challenges and the struggles you go to.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: And once you really understand the safety associated with it, it's like just incredible we can do this on the planet.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: But that's all because I just happened to fall into the industry.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And let's talk about that a bit, yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because so we'll back up here a little bit, because I don't think nuclear was on your game plan.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't on your bingo card when you were deciding what to do.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Walk me through your introduction to nuclear and your eventual move up to Chalk River.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I ended up entering the industry while working or while working, while um studying at McGill University in mechanical engineering, a program effectively dedicated for aerospace.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's one of the reasons why it's one of the top programs in all of Canada.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, planes were nice, but that wasn't really what I wanted to do.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I dabbled in a lot of different ideas I put out for internships while I was still in my undergrad.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I eventually ended up getting accepted at Chalk River.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And a little bit came through family friends of my dad's who had worked there, and I got to hear a couple stories, which piqued my interest enough to apply.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Not enough to be like, that's where I want to go, that's where I want to work.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it was while working in maintenance engineering and assessment under Larry McGrath and Martin Bagshaw that I really got to cut my teeth and see the incredible research and work that was going on in the industries.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: We still had our plutonium labs at the time.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: I got to visit the plutonium labs, universal hot cells, MOLI production facility, got to go above, under, around the reactors that we were operating at the time, NRU, NRX, and then NRU and Z2.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then got to even check out NRX, NRX basement, all the crazy stuff that happened.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: I got to visit the maple reactors.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was just astounding.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it really was a complete overload.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Just yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was because of the thing.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: That I got I just was like, yeah, I want to be a part of this.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it it's, you know, at different times back then, you know, Fukushima was happening, so nuclear was seeing that its time was out.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't really known that there were many jobs in it, but I got in and I got to participate.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then since then I've been experiencing like live, as well as through Teams, some incredible work that we've done.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that with that first refurbishment we did at Bruce Power for Unit 6, it's really where I saw the sky was the limit.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if we're capable of doing this, and at the time, I I still think we I would say we still had large headwinds in the industry.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: No one could have foreseen the tailwinds we have today.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: But at that time I knew the sky was the limit.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we got to position ourselves as best as we can to maximize what that vision can be and then follow through and attain it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And like it's all thanks to that sort of falling into the industry that I had in my undergrad without really knowing where I wanted to go.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: And to share like similar experiences as you do when you're in your career.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people my age, there's a large group of us in our 30s, late 20s, even entering our 40s, who entered at about the same time.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a similarity in our stories.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: We all sort of fell into it.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't something that sought us out.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's not something we sought out.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And yet we're grateful for that opportunity to be a part of this incredible story, especially with how much tailwinds there are right now.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's it might be one of those generational changing story and it's a future-changing story.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: And to know that you're a part of that is like amazing.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: You you brought something up there about I'm like you.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: It bec if I stepped into nuclear because of proximity for me.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: But as I have spoken to more and more people in this setting in the podcast studio, the majority of us didn't grow up thinking, uh, nuclear is it for me.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of stumbled our way into the industry.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am excited for the day, and I think it's already coming, where nuclear is an industry that so many Canadians know about, they are plotting it out.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what do you want to be a doctor, an accountant?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's seven things that we went to school that, like, you could be one of these things.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I am excited for the day where nuclear is in such abundance with knowledge of like everyday common knowledge that people are like, well, I'm gonna go into nuclear.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I am.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be an operator, I'm gonna go, you know, um work for NWMO and help protect the Earth through through efforts in in nuclear.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: That excites me because as you've said, yes, so many people, and not just our generation, but the ones before that, they didn't know nuclear until all of a sudden nuclear came knocking.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a hopefully it will happen here in the next like uh few years, because it's we're already seeing such a quick shift.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Huge.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it would be so inspiring for the next generation in a world where we're seeing it become a little less certain, a little less secure, the feeling that relationships are becoming a little less caring, a little more transactional, whether individually, whether in regions, whether globally.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: But those young people who want to be a part of making that better world, here is a story that has the potential to unlock all of that, rebind relationships at every single layer I just mentioned, from globally down to the personal level.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you can do it, and it's gonna be a wild time.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna experience really cool stuff.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you like getting your hands dirty, you could be under a reactor in full plastic suit with a massive team of support behind you doing some of the hardest work you could imagine in your life.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: If you like being behind a computer, you could be someone pushing forward some of the craziest robotics the world has ever seen to happen at a location near you.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you like accounting, if you like finance, you could be trying to create some of the most unique business and finance models around to push some of the largest projects forward known to man.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you're someone simple and you like to support things in a way, you can go out there and you can do some of the administrative work that is the bedrock by which this industry functions.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I love how you mentioned like it'd almost be good for Gray's Anatomy or a Sully because it's like in this industry, I think a TV show like that would capture it very well.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all just stuff you don't think of.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've heard it tossed around a bit over the last couple of years, especially since we talk workforce.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, nuclear, we have concerns with workforce, the whole industry has concerns with workforce.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: And like I've heard it tossed around that 95% of the people who work in nuclear, you know, by training and experience and education, don't need to be nuclear.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I wish more people would realize about that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: To be a part of that story doesn't mean you need a university degree, a college degree, or a high school degree saying nuclear.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: It just means you want to be a part of making the world a better place.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: And once you have that behind you and you feel and you sense that this is the story for you, you can jump in.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Our industry is so good at bringing people up to speed.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: It is so kind and welcoming.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited because over the last two years, you see more and more people at conferences, more and more people events say apologizing in the Canadian fashion, saying, sorry, I've only been in nuclear for six months.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: I've only been in nuclear two years.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like the perfect place to be because we know we want you joining us, because we can't go from B to A or A to B alone.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: We know we need more people on board.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we're part of this incredible story, which is calling.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: And we haven't really figured out, I think, which is one of the themes of this podcast, how to make the call.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: But it it's present, it's there.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just so incredible to witness this happening, all the conversations happening at the government level, industry level, and at like the personal individual level.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is leading to some of the tailwinds we feel in the industry, which gives us confidence for the future, the future of our foundational technology here in Canada, the can-do uranium fuel supply chain, but confidence that we can go beyond that into advanced nuclear technologies, whether lead-cooled technology like our own here at Nuclear, or even other technologies like heap tube technology, liquid sodium technology, molten salt technology, you know, really push the limits because we are one of maybe eight countries in the world that has a foundation capable of built being built off of.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's worth us realizing that our place in the global story carries responsibility and duty behind it.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it is on us to allow our story to fulfill its mission.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: And in that, it's broad.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it does mean we have to take some chances, some risks from a societal standpoint, from a c individual career standpoint, but it's also what makes the story like fun.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: That's right, worth reading.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: You know, it's it's like worth living through.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's worth going through those ups and downs sideways.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Page after page.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And it's like the nuclear story is so vast and broad.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: Just about anyone in society right now, regardless of education level, can come and be a part of it.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Because don't you also find our industry is really, really great.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you don't know what you want to do, you could probably reinvent your career ten times over here.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like I talked to so many people who they started in this, then they jumped to this, then they thought, I'll give that a try.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Then they created a space for themselves.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think of Kathy O'Hagan's story where she really kind of said, you know, I really would love to be doing more with Indigenous relations.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: I see a need here.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Worked, of course, in a fabulous organization that allowed her to do that with E.S.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Fox.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and she created this career that, by her own definition, is her dream job.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Our industry is so great because there's such a diversity of opportunity.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can reinvent yourself here and you can see something new and think, I want to try that.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we're so connected, we're so supportive that we allow it.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: It it sounds so people tune into this probably and they must be like, they're just selling it, but it really isn't.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: It really I mean, of course, of course.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like it's easy to sell what you're just experiencing on a daily basis.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like the industry is experiencing it on a daily basis, and so is everyone within the industry.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not to say for each of us there's not ups and downs that we live through.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like my day, my days aren't always the most glamorous out there, and I'm not living this high life and dream.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of hard work that goes into it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: But so too is there a lot of hard work that goes into every adventure store you would want to be on.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, hey, come on, let's go.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I still I still think, I mean, on a real level, it's still what you make of it.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It is.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, I'm sure there's a lot of people that turn up in our industry, just like every other's who you know get the Sunday scaries, they don't want to go into work and whatever.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's still up to the individual to invest in that story, to understand that story, and to see their part of how how they're kind of helping write that narrative.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know, I don't think there's many industries, unless you want to go work at Disney World.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that might be some magic down there.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I I do, in all seriousness, I don't think there are very many industries that offer the setting, you know, going back to the environment you want to be in for opportunity and um growth that ours does with the impact that we have.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Absolutely.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: I I would say that impact is key.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: I would say of all the heavy technology in the world today, nuclear is about to do a multidimensional expansion in every dimension, dimensions we're not even aware of.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you can be at the cutting edge of RD, like very fundamental science that's going to lead to massive achievements.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: You could be at the cutting edge of technology development like we are here at Nuclear, making changes that will impact the whole world if successful.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: You can be at the cutting edge of finance, corporate development, business structures, because there's a whole bunch of new models that have to happen.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: You could be at the cutting edge of regulations.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: Our regulator here in Canada is one of the most flexible in the world, and they're working hard and intensely to make sure that future for us is possible.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: They too have visions, deep visions of where they want Canada to go.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of work that has to go in to make sure we can get there.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can be at the cutting edge of like dealing with contamination, you know, on the planet.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, effectively a and they will hate me for saying this, but like a radiation janitor, except that you get a whole bunch of robots you get to play with now.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Including some of the most sensitive tools in the world and a massive team that supports you.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like there's so many places at which this industry is growing rapidly that I wish more people would know about.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because it it I think conveys some of the confidence in both the technology and the people.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's hard to get behind stuff that doesn't seem like it's moving at like a positive pace or in a positive direction.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: But if you really feel that momentum going in a direction, it's much easier to give it the benefit of the doubt, follow a curious rabbit hole down and try and understand it better, or even just take a risk on your career.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Make that move, make that change, or plot out that change.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you want to go to school to feel more comfortable that it's the path for you.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's all an option.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: But right now, that growth is so great.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you're competent and willing to work hard and really put something into it, there's jobs out there in a big way.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so looking at your career, going back to your story a little bit here, you obviously are no longer an operator or uh handling fuel in the daily.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: As you've mentioned, nuclear, you are now leading nuclear, a very exciting entity within our industry.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: So walk me through that transition, really high level.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like how how did you go from operator into this uh role?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, so I think I've always had a bit of restless feature, a bit of like a challenge internally between balancing a lot of these different things.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're talking about perspectives, and I think that's a reflection of paradox that I have within me, you know, arts, philosophy, religion, psychology, engineering.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that mindset that always struggles and pulls me.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it produces inherently in my nature a bit of a restlessness.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: So while a fuel handling operator, refurbishments are coming on, I really saw that opportunity to go experience something new, something different.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: I joined the Can Doo Energy team, supported the Unit 6 refurbishment, which was an incredible experience.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: And in that, I really saw how incredible the work we were doing was.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: But also there were a number of guys about my age, guys and girls about my age involved in the project.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: And on night shifts, which were a bit slower, we had talk a lot about sort of the industry, technology, and it started broadening my vision.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: I started researching, getting involved, seeing the broader perspective.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Where's Russia going?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Where's China going?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Where's Korea going?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Where's the US going?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: Where's fundamental research taking us?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it broadened this vision that, with the confidence that came from being on such an incredible project, I started striving after that vision.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that opened me up into a world of taking the risk and becoming an independent consultant in our industry.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: And really going down this wild path through contracts, all the learning associated with running your own business.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: I also started up an IP business because I had some ideas that are patentable.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we're out trying to get patents.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I sort of really became an entrepreneur founder and pushed that forward while trying to figure out what's that vision and how do we get there.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: So you go out talking to people, you network, you try and figure things out.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then for me, you take it all back and you spend probably like a week in silence trying to parse through things and like make connections.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it ended up leading to me just, you know, loving the risk of the consulting life.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I fell in with the founders at Nuclear, and in a weird way, some of the fundamentals of my vision were matched in them.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: I met up with uh two of our founders who have capital markets backgrounds, which was the most surprising thing to me of all that here these two guys are with capital markets backgrounds.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: They have no experience in nuclear whatsoever, but they know business, they know finance, they know how to financially engineer systems to be successful and to navigate financial organizational risk.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: And they can do that to varying like uh services and products.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they had opened up this vision through their research on energy in Canada, because that was something they both felt strongly about solving, and they came to the conclusion of nuclear.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: And in a weird way, you know, we're chatting and we're discussing, and it's like how do you guys see what I'm seeing without having experienced anything that I've experienced from such different backgrounds.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: From such different backgrounds, and yet you have this incredible tool set that's fundamental to making things happen.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, we need to talk.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started consulting with them as an advisor.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: We made a lot happen.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it started gaining some incredible momentum.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then eventually, like I was doing so much for them.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: I loved working with them, they loved working with me.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: And uh one of them, our founder Sagar, who was at that time CEO, knew that it was his time to step down.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, nuclear is a very complex, um complex industry, especially on the advanced nuclear technology, so they needed a replacement.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, through conversations, I became the natural fit, and uh I've been leading them quite well ever since.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very exciting.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it was a bit of a marriage uh birthed from action.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: You you started the work before you were leading the work, really.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I wouldn't say we're accomplished.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we have this bold and ambitious vision.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: We see both where the nuclear industry has to go, where Canada has to go, and many, many gaps that need to be filled through entrepreneurship, through new businesses, through new technologies.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we've prioritized those that we deem to be significant and substantial that have to happen.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And others a second priority that others can go and solve in if we can make that movement as a country and an industry happen.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we've isolated strategically where we want to be, what technologies we want to plan, and we're moving in that direction.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Our flagship Morpheus Reactor is right now at the core of that.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: More recently, we've signed the definitive purchase agreement for the company Multex with their advanced reactor portfolio as well as their nuclear fuel recycling technology.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that will bolster our goal of developing technologies that lead to the nuclear future that's most beneficial for the world and for Canada.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really where we see our ambitions and our vision taking us.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not in having these, it's in developing them, producing them, solving the problems, and then providing those solutions to others that we really see the deeper steps towards attaining that goal.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Interesting.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's like at essence where you find us at Nuclear.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a bunch of guys who are looking to attract to us some of the most talented, ambitious, and bold people around, whether researchers, engineers, admin staff, financial bros, even, or even just like, you know, people who just want to be a part of an incredible new story.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we have that vision.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: We're confident it's attainable.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: But how we attain it is really up to the team that we create and the industry we're in, the country we're in, and the globe as a whole.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: And the timing is right.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: The timing is now for this.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: And speaking of the team that you mentioned, when we look back at some of the things we've talked about and the perspective you've gained through your career, how do you now transition that you're leading a team of people?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: You are the one that is setting the destination on that GPS.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do you make sure everyone stays aligned but still feels, as we've talked about with the SWAT with the SWAT kind of analogy, that they can pick the course as long as they're moving towards the same destination.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do that and how do you bring that to your leadership style?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's an excellent question.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say a lot of it comes through open communication, understanding people, personal goals, organizational goals, vision, and understanding where people want to be.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you understand sort of like a complex project as a system that encompasses a whole bunch of parts leading to the final end, you prioritize where the end is, where the parts play together, and that gives you or where the parts play to contribute to that, but also the interconnections that are within them.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: That both gives you an understanding of what your organizational structure and project team needs to look like, as well as what the personal individuals within teams work with.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then it comes down to having and building that team beneath you and defining your goals, defining your milestones, defining where to go, finding people who match that vision, the energy, the skill set required for the different individual roles, and realizing that we as humans were all a bit organic.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Over a year, two years, we'll have career shifts, we'll have movements, and keeping channels open for dialogue, creating a culture permissive of that, of innovation, to very high standards, very rigorous understanding of the technical know-how that needs to happen, the manufacturing know-how.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess setting that in motion, I guess, is the simple way to put it.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we've already done, and that's what we're pursuing.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: How do you make sure so I guess I have two questions.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: First, when you're building that team, is it important to you that you are bringing people on who share the similarity of you on being able to see things from multi-kind of perspective lenses?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it something that you think you can you can kind of train within culture, or do you want it to be a skill set they bring?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: And my second question is: how do you make sure that once that GPS kind of is set, everyone understands how they're contributing and but but allowing them to kind of get there the way they best see f they see fit.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying this wrong.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what I'm trying to say.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think I get what you're trying to say.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's four podcasts back to back today, so I think it will probably not be the last for the first time I minced my words.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well it it it's an interesting problem, and I'd say it's one that and I say problem, but it's like an it's an interesting challenge.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's one every leader struggles with, whether you know, articulably in one way or using words in another way.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um and every organization struggles.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing that um like all of us here at Nuclear, especially at the highest levels, share is this understanding that, and I'll use the story analogy, though that's not how we speak internally about it, um, that we're on a story.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's a journey.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: To be successful in the journey, there's growth, there's change, there's challenge.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be nimble and you have to have people who are willing to join in on that.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: But in the team that you create, there's different roles within that, and you're trying to find people who fit into those roles.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: Some people you want to have visionary, you want independent thought, you want the capacity to go out, be an entrepreneur, work with the team, push limits.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: And on other hands, you want people who are very rigid and closed, seeking to solve problems, not let things get in their way, not let things disturb them, not let things bother them like vision and all of these things, right?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like you want problem solvers who solve the problems that get set before them.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you also want people who neither of those two things sort of qualify as something they're interested in.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: They're supportive, they're caring, they're extremely hardworking, they're administrative geniuses in a way, they're capable of just punching through stuff that's really challenging.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: And you try and mesh together teams organically.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, in an ideal world, there's a huge selection of people, and you're selecting the proper candidates, and you're sort of combining them into this incredible organizational chart.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: But in reality, it's much more complex than that.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: And in a way, you organically grow your company to meet those needs, and you plot out your pattern of growth and the organizational growth required with that.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you look for good people who can fit in, and you realize it's going to be a learning curve for everyone, for the organization, for the people coming in, and be open to that.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: And you might get surprised at the results you find.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because in going from A to B, if there's turns, if there's challenges associated with that, the key is the team has to learn how to trust each other, they have to build strong relationships, and they have to be able to communicate, whether it's in the language of an engineer in our nuclear space with like a million acronyms and numbers, or the language of a visionary and trying to sort of disseminate a plan towards people, or in the language of a regulator and being able to like discuss transactionally really challenging concepts and ideas that have tangible impacts.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: And playing within that sphere is challenging.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying we have the perfect answer, but it's a learning experience.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: And if you find people who are willing to learn with you and work with you and build that trust with time, you can overcome so many challenges.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because going from A to B is not going to be a straight line.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, especially on the advanced technology development side, definitely not.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: But it's exciting.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's an incredible adventure, whether you're an engineer, an executive, an admin staff.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is an incredible opportunity and a good path forward.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love that concept of essentially putting this team together that is built in a way that you're giving the organization a depth of perspective because everyone is bringing whether they are multifaceted or the head-down just focus on what I have to do type work, you're building perspective in because you're bringing in all of these different personalities and different skill sets.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: I really like that.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I kind of know for you, we have a few minutes left here.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know you have a call I want to get you to.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh life of a CEO.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's always a call waiting.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: So my final question to you will be: and I have a glimpse of what the answer might be what is exciting you the most about our sector as we look forward today.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: I would say it's unbridled potential.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: And this is analogy I'm trying to parse through because I think it's really challenging to put words to accurately describe where our industry is going.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say the industrial revolution, the nuclear industrial revolution we are embarking on is something that has rarely been seen before by humanity, by any technology around.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: The closest comparisons, I would say, is the Internet boom, the transistor chip silcon boom, and then the more easy to understand is the transportation boom.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: People presume the Industrial Revolution was built on the basis of technology just sort of all of a sudden coming about and changed the world.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: But the basis of that was transportation.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you could move resources, you could move people faster, more efficiently, more effectively, you change how society functions and you change how work is done.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in history, how that played out was the train was effectively invented well before most other technologies.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was almost like a foreshadowing of what was to come.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it was because nations chose to pursue the train that nations came about.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like even our country, Canada, came about because of that railway.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: But interestingly, it spent a purgatory period of about 60 years in which it was the only major technological advancement changing society, changing how society functioned.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden the car, the plane, the tractor all came about at the same time, including more.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that is truly the basis by which we live in our modern society.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: You can't think of the world today without thinking of planes, jets, trains, cars, dirt bikes, tractors, drones, like everything that came out of that shift in to the train is what made the fundamental world we have today.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now, nuclear is very similar.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: With the breakthrough of nuclear technology, we developed large reactors, right?
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: Technology was developing in parallel, but really this the real discovery was the large reactor capable of supporting society at large, similar to the train transporting for society at large.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're about to enter the boom by which the plane, the helicopter, the car, the dirt bike all show up on the stage.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: Formula One cars.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: The Formula One cars all show up at the same time.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: That is the multidimensional growth we are going to see in this industry, and it is unbridled potential.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the reasons why it's really challenging today to think about how nuclear technologies fit together.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that analogy is quite good at describing those differences.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because if it's not a matter of just two, three different types of trains that are competing with each other regardless of size, it's actually a matter of the discussion about, well, we still want trains and we want that to improve, large reactors.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: We still want cars and transport trucks, small modular reactors, but we also want the advantages that planes produce, molten salt reactors, that jets produce, let's say, um sodium reactors, that helicopters produce lead reactors, that like hovercraft produce, you know, heat tube reactors.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you see the new nuclear world in a different light.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you also see where the parts fit together.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that gives you clarity in terms of where you want to take your career, where you want to see the parts involved, and where the competitive challenges aren't competitive.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like would you imagine a world in which Canada had decided we don't want the car because we felt the plane was going to be superior and the car was redundant to the train?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like no.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: And if you think of the, you know, the US deciding trains were no longer necessary because we just want dirt bikes and cars, it's like, well, that's a big problem too.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the future world is gonna have all of them.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: The decision becomes: do you want to contribute in being involved in having that as an exporter or to be able to do it domestically, or do you want to become an importer?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because your selection of which ones you are welcome to will determine which ones you're involved in.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: Everything else will come as an import.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: And in the same way, we see that that's how the world played out.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: Those who you know welcomed in the train fundamentally had a head start, but they had to welcome in everything else at the same time.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say it's one of the reasons why we here in North America, especially in Canada and the US, have such a strong position, like such a foundation in the world we are today, because we were first movers on all of that technology.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that'll we're still reaping the benefits of all of that.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: And now we're about to go through a similar shift in the nuclear side.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: Where do we want to be in 25 years?
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like we are one of maybe eight countries in the world that fundamentally have the capabilities of attaining all of it.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be hard.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be challenging.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, where's the money, where the people are gonna come from?
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like if we're involved in that, that club might become much smaller to be able to deliver, but we could be in that club still.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: If we stick to the train, we don't want anything else, you know, we'll be in the club, but it's a very different picture.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: Just as you know, the transport analogy conveys.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you didn't accept the car, if you didn't accept the tractor, the plane, the helicopter, it's like eventually they get imported.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: And do you want that?
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we're at an interesting point where we can discuss this openly.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_02: We can push, you can be ambitious, develop companies, push companies on the verge of all of those technologies, and you can be companies pushing the train.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: The train has evolved incredibly since that time.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they that's sometimes one of the most wondrous technologies around.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: Those high-speed trains are just incredible.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: Now, where do we want to be?
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's like just the incredible point of nuclear.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: Our industry, we are at the cusp of that.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_02: Here in Canada, fundamentally, we're at the lead of that.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: Where do we want to be in 25 years?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_02: Where do we want our grandkids to be in 50, 75 years?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because the world's going to be an incredible place, and we're at this cool point where we're we're part of the beginning of that adventure.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's kind of like who wants to be a part of that?
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: For all those people, they get to buy in now, right?
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: At this new cusp of something.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it has been a fascinating conversation.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: I just love the way your brain works because you can anyone who would think spends any time talking to you can tell you're such a multifaceted person who seeing the scenario, which I'm sure sometimes it's a blessing and a curse.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, big time.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: But you can just see your your the wheels in motion within you of looking at the situation from all of these different angles at once, and then very quickly analyzing it and making sense of it, which is a rare, I think, attribute.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's always so fascinating.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime I get the chance to talk to you, I just walk away thinking it's it's got to be exhausting to be in your brain, but what a cool place because you're so able to see things from so many different angles.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Well, I appreciate it.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I I especially having me on and being able to draw it all out of me too, right?
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's I think when it comes down to it, a lot of things are just relational, right?
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's all about knowing where you stand, but not seeing yourself independent of everyone.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like that harmony and motion that makes the story, right?
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell I've loved it.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for trusting me with uh carrying your story forward.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for being here today to split atoms with me.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us for this conversation.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: The Splitting Atoms podcast is produced by Splitting Atoms Media, a division of the Carolyn Corporation.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: All of our conversations are made possible through the support of our founding partner, the Nuclear Innovation Institute.