Latest / No Dribble / BONUS: Liz Ellis on Jess Rowe's Big Talk Show

Transcript

BONUS: Liz Ellis on Jess Rowe's Big Talk Show · No Dribble

0:01
Speaker 1: You're listening to a DM podcast.
0:04
Speaker 2: So Kath, we've got something a bit different this week,
0:07
Speaker 2: haven't we. We do really appreciate our voices just at
0:11
Speaker 2: this moment though, because we went invited. No, we're not
0:14
Speaker 2: in this conversation, but Liz went and had an amazing
0:17
Speaker 2: chat with Jess Row on Jess Row's Big Talk Show,
0:21
Speaker 2: and just for something a little bit different, we're going
0:22
Speaker 2: to share that episode with you because it's a really,
0:25
Speaker 2: really great chat even though we weren't there. And you
0:28
Speaker 2: know what, I can't get enough of Liz Ella, so yeah,
0:31
Speaker 2: bring it on. And I've got to say Jess Row's show.
0:34
Speaker 2: Once you've listened to No Dribble, if you've still got
0:36
Speaker 2: some time, have a listened to Jess Ro's Big Talk
0:38
Speaker 2: Show every week because they do do some extremely interesting
0:41
Speaker 2: and fun chats and this one is no exception where
0:45
Speaker 2: Liz Ellis and Jess Row talk about pretty much everything.
0:51
Speaker 2: So enjoy this one, Dribblers, and we'll be back next
0:54
Speaker 2: week with the usual summer series episode Bye Bye.
0:59
Speaker 1: Liz is a sporting great. She's captained Australia's netball team
1:04
Speaker 1: and is now heading up Netball Australia and if you
1:08
Speaker 1: don't know Liz from her champion playing days, you would
1:11
Speaker 1: have seen her on the Telly as a sports commentator,
1:14
Speaker 1: a panelist on the project, or named as Queen of
1:18
Speaker 1: the Jungle in I'm a Celebrity, Get me out of here.
1:22
Speaker 3: Liz is no nonsense.
1:24
Speaker 1: Warm and a fabulous leader, and whenever we've crossed paths
1:28
Speaker 1: over the years, we have a really good laugh together.
1:31
Speaker 1: We are at a similar stage in our lives, and
1:34
Speaker 1: I wanted to see how Liz is managing the unpredictability
1:38
Speaker 1: of midlife and menopause. Liz Ellis, I've been a huge
1:46
Speaker 1: fan of yours for many years, and I've managed to
1:49
Speaker 1: wrangle you into the podcasting studio at last.
1:53
Speaker 3: Yay.
1:53
Speaker 4: Thanks jess Well. I've been a huge fan of yours
1:55
Speaker 4: for many years. We've crossed over, of course on different occasions,
1:58
Speaker 4: and sometimes we've been ships passing the night. But like
2:01
Speaker 4: I try to approach life with a really optimistic mindset,
2:04
Speaker 4: and I feel like you're a sister from another mystery
2:06
Speaker 4: in that regard, So I love that to sit in
2:08
Speaker 4: front of you.
2:08
Speaker 1: Oh and you're so right. I'm such a believer in
2:12
Speaker 1: what's the silver lining? What is the joy that we
2:15
Speaker 1: can get from this situation as opposed to the negative.
2:18
Speaker 1: Can be difficult sometimes and I really want to talk with.
2:21
Speaker 3: You about that.
2:22
Speaker 1: But first of all, obviously netball is a massive part
2:26
Speaker 1: of your life continues to be. But what is it
2:29
Speaker 1: that you love about the game, or as a little
2:32
Speaker 1: girl or a teenager when you first started playing, what
2:35
Speaker 1: did you love about it? Oh?
2:36
Speaker 4: Look, as a little girl, I loved just doing something
2:39
Speaker 4: with my friends on a Saturday. But I also have
2:42
Speaker 4: been also very competitive, so I loved getting out and
2:45
Speaker 4: seeing how I went against other players and trying to
2:47
Speaker 4: be the best that I could be. So netball was
2:49
Speaker 4: a place that I could be competitive without having to
2:52
Speaker 4: be apologetic about it. It was probably the one place
2:55
Speaker 4: you could be you know, school is a bit hard.
2:57
Speaker 4: You get a bit picked on if you try and
2:59
Speaker 4: be too good at school. But sport was a place
3:01
Speaker 4: that I could get out, be competitive, excel, be my
3:04
Speaker 4: best and I got to do it with my mates.
3:06
Speaker 4: And what I love about the sport continually now is
3:10
Speaker 4: that it's not a sport where one person can dominate.
3:13
Speaker 4: Everybody has to work as a team, and I think
3:15
Speaker 4: it's really unique in that regard. So all of the
3:18
Speaker 4: skills that I have as an adult, things like the
3:21
Speaker 4: ability to communicate, the ability to work as a team,
3:23
Speaker 4: the ability to understand my role to deliver for whether
3:27
Speaker 4: it's in the workplace or on the court. There are
3:30
Speaker 4: all skills that I learned as a little girl playing netball,
3:32
Speaker 4: and I think it's such a great place. The other
3:34
Speaker 4: thing that I love about my sport is that it's
3:37
Speaker 4: a place for female leadership and it's one of the
3:40
Speaker 4: few sports in Australia. It's the only sport really where
3:43
Speaker 4: if you're a little girl and you look up the tree,
3:46
Speaker 4: the top of the tree is largely populated by women.
3:48
Speaker 4: You know, the head coach, the CEO, the chairwoman, the
3:51
Speaker 4: presidents by a large female. So and you're the head
3:55
Speaker 4: of Netball Australia, the Chair of Netball Australia. Yes, so
3:58
Speaker 4: we sort of do the strategy work and provide guidance
4:01
Speaker 4: to the CEO Stacy West. So it really is a
4:03
Speaker 4: unique place for women to learn how to lead. And
4:06
Speaker 4: I'm so grateful that that's my sport because of that.
4:09
Speaker 1: You talk about being competitive, and I know you are
4:13
Speaker 1: a competitive beast, and playing netball you could do that.
4:18
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by being competitive, I'm not. I get nervous
4:22
Speaker 1: thinking about competition. I don't know if it's because as
4:26
Speaker 1: a little girl I wasn't encouraged to win, or I
4:30
Speaker 1: had to make room for everyone. I don't know what
4:32
Speaker 1: it is, and so I wonder is that something that
4:36
Speaker 1: is more a female trait that we don't want to compete,
4:39
Speaker 1: or is it something that's thrust upon us.
4:42
Speaker 3: I don't know.
4:43
Speaker 4: I've always been uber competitive. I what are you like
4:45
Speaker 4: in card games with your kids? I've been the rules
4:48
Speaker 4: and let them win.
4:49
Speaker 3: Do you Yeah, so I'm one of those people. I'm
4:51
Speaker 3: the opposite.
4:52
Speaker 4: I hate monopoly, let's put it out there right now.
4:54
Speaker 4: But my husband likes it. Although now the kids just
4:56
Speaker 4: started to beat him. He's liking it less and less.
4:59
Speaker 4: But I always and I loved competing against my dad,
5:02
Speaker 4: and then when I beat him, I really felt really good.
5:05
Speaker 3: And it's the same with my kids. I never been
5:07
Speaker 3: the rules and I well, when they were really.
5:09
Speaker 4: Little, I did a bit, but I always say to them,
5:12
Speaker 4: when you beat me, you'll know that you have earned this.
5:15
Speaker 4: So recently, my little girl, who's nearly thirteen, she always
5:19
Speaker 4: wanted to race me over one hundred and a few
5:22
Speaker 4: years ago, we walked away from everything and bought a
5:26
Speaker 4: caravan and took the kids around Australia and we're up
5:29
Speaker 4: at Kartha and we found this beautiful park and I
5:31
Speaker 4: had a track and field track marked out and my
5:34
Speaker 4: little girl said, can I race you? I'm like, yeah, toads,
5:38
Speaker 4: so a bit of a warm up and we took off.
5:40
Speaker 4: My husband was down the end and she smoked me
5:43
Speaker 4: and I was like no, but she was so excited
5:46
Speaker 4: because she knew that I'd been trying. And I think
5:49
Speaker 4: from my point of view with my kids, I don't
5:51
Speaker 4: want them to ever feel like it's a bit of
5:53
Speaker 4: a hollow victory. They when they beat me, they beat
5:55
Speaker 4: me fair and square. But you're so right, that is
5:58
Speaker 4: something that you have to sort of have to encourage
6:01
Speaker 4: them without destroying their competitive spirit, don't you. And that's
6:04
Speaker 4: a fine line new Walker's parents. But I do her
6:06
Speaker 4: on the side of I don't really let them win.
6:09
Speaker 4: I might let them win a few things in the process,
6:12
Speaker 4: but at the end of the day, I just make
6:13
Speaker 4: sure I win so that when they beat me, they
6:14
Speaker 4: know they've earned it.
6:16
Speaker 1: And in terms of being a competitive beast, were you
6:20
Speaker 1: born that way, is that something that's always been a
6:22
Speaker 1: part of you.
6:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I was.
6:24
Speaker 4: And it's not necessary to be a great athlete, Like,
6:30
Speaker 4: there's lots of things that go into being a great athlete,
6:33
Speaker 4: and lots of people are driven by different things. I
6:35
Speaker 4: had a teammate once that was simply driven by she
6:39
Speaker 4: loved playing. She was super athletic, and she was unbelievably fair,
6:43
Speaker 4: and one day to team meeting, she made the admission,
6:46
Speaker 4: and this was playing at the elite level, she made
6:48
Speaker 4: the admission that if she got a few intercepts, she
6:51
Speaker 4: let her play get the ball a few times because
6:52
Speaker 4: she felt sorry for them, Like, oh, mate, you can't
6:56
Speaker 4: do that because you're making decisions on behalf of our team.
7:00
Speaker 4: So what happens if suddenly that player comes into the
7:02
Speaker 4: game and you've been very fair and let that happen.
7:05
Speaker 4: And we sort of had to workshop it because she
7:07
Speaker 4: wasn't driven by this innate competitiveness, something else drove her.
7:11
Speaker 4: So I was always super competitive, really competitive with my sister.
7:15
Speaker 4: Were only twenty two months between us, and we've sort of,
7:18
Speaker 4: you know, we've managed to mature beyond that now, But it.
7:21
Speaker 3: Was always in me.
7:22
Speaker 4: I always just wanted to win at whatever I was doing,
7:25
Speaker 4: and I've had to temper that over the years because
7:27
Speaker 4: sometimes that.
7:27
Speaker 1: Can be quite damaging. So I picked my moments. Now
7:31
Speaker 1: I don't have to win everything. And when you say
7:33
Speaker 1: it can be quite damaging in what ways? I think
7:36
Speaker 1: it can be damaging in that if you have to
7:38
Speaker 1: win everything, you drive people away from you. Now, whether
7:41
Speaker 1: that's wanting to win every single card game you play
7:44
Speaker 1: or every single argument. And for example, with my husband,
7:47
Speaker 1: rather than trying to win the argument all the time,
7:50
Speaker 1: I have learned over the years and we don't fight.
7:52
Speaker 1: We more have discussions to go, Okay, well what are
7:54
Speaker 1: you trying to tell me? What am I trying to
7:55
Speaker 1: tell you? So that doesn't always have to be a
7:57
Speaker 1: winner and a loser. And I think if you're competitive,
8:00
Speaker 1: you get into that mindset that there is always a
8:02
Speaker 1: winner and always a loser. And over the years I've
8:04
Speaker 1: had to learn that that's not the case. And now
8:06
Speaker 1: that I'm the chair of a sporting organization, you actually
8:10
Speaker 1: have to really take that competitive beast off your shoulder
8:12
Speaker 1: and put it aside and go, Okay, how do we
8:15
Speaker 1: all win in this situation? And that's sort of I'm
8:17
Speaker 1: fifty one and I'm still learning it. I heard an
8:20
Speaker 1: interview with you where you were talking about curiosity equals
8:24
Speaker 1: chaos for you, and that's been something that you've had
8:28
Speaker 1: to really open up to being curious.
8:30
Speaker 4: Yes, I have, like I'm curious, but I also like
8:33
Speaker 4: control and I like things to be ordered just so.
8:37
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm learning in this role that you
8:41
Speaker 4: can't control everything. So you have to be curious and
8:44
Speaker 4: let the chaos ensue and then just work your way
8:46
Speaker 4: out of it. And again, that's such a learning sort
8:49
Speaker 4: of thing, and I'm determined to not get so set
8:51
Speaker 4: in my ways that everything has to be just so.
8:54
Speaker 4: And also I had kids older. You know, I was
8:57
Speaker 4: forty three when my youngest child was born. So you
9:00
Speaker 4: just have to learn to live in chaos, don't you,
9:02
Speaker 4: because there's so much going on. We've got so much
9:05
Speaker 4: going on in our family and being curious and actually
9:09
Speaker 4: going I'm not going to get that job done. I'm
9:10
Speaker 4: going to sit here and talk to my kid and
9:12
Speaker 4: ask them questions and do curious things with them.
9:14
Speaker 3: You just have to let the chaos happen. I'm a
9:17
Speaker 3: huge believer in chaos because I.
9:20
Speaker 1: Live in mess and I mean that both sort of
9:24
Speaker 1: messy house, but also sometimes things do have a tendency
9:28
Speaker 1: to get on top of me, and I try and
9:30
Speaker 1: revel in that. The flip side of that for me
9:33
Speaker 1: is that there are sometimes when that chaos can be overwhelming.
9:37
Speaker 1: It's that balance, isn't it.
9:39
Speaker 4: Sometimes if I'm in a chaotic environment, whether it's at
9:42
Speaker 4: home or even in my mind, I really have to
9:46
Speaker 4: try and pick one thing at a time to get
9:48
Speaker 4: out of it. So my problem is that I want
9:50
Speaker 4: to control everything. So when everything's chaotic, I pick one thing,
9:54
Speaker 4: what's the one thing here that I can control? And
9:56
Speaker 4: sometimes that thing is simply my reaction and my attitude
9:59
Speaker 4: to it. And then once I control that, I can
10:01
Speaker 4: start to work my way through it. And it's not
10:04
Speaker 4: always a linear sort of thing. And you know, it's
10:06
Speaker 4: like when your house is a bonfight, and you know, right,
10:09
Speaker 4: I'm just going to tidy my bedroom because that's what
10:11
Speaker 4: I can control. And I have to let the kids
10:14
Speaker 4: have lego and sporting equipment and clothes everywhere and just
10:19
Speaker 4: ask them to start to control what they can control.
10:22
Speaker 1: That idea of control I find fascinating, and it's as women,
10:28
Speaker 1: we often feel that if we can make choices about things.
10:31
Speaker 1: That's how we can manage parts of our life. And
10:34
Speaker 1: you've been incredibly open about going through IVF and miscarriage,
10:40
Speaker 1: and I've been through IVF as well, and it's that.
10:44
Speaker 4: Terrible loss of control, isn't it? Oh, with that horrific
10:48
Speaker 4: And that was the worst thing for me. And you know,
10:50
Speaker 4: the advice that people were giving me was just relax,
10:52
Speaker 4: it'll happen.
10:53
Speaker 3: You've already had one kid, you know how to do it.
10:55
Speaker 3: Just relax.
10:56
Speaker 4: And I remember my mum said that to me, and
10:58
Speaker 4: she meant it in such a well meaning manner. Tell
11:00
Speaker 4: me about somebody she had a friend and their daughter
11:02
Speaker 4: tried for years with an IVF and similar story to mine,
11:05
Speaker 4: and they just relaxed and it happened. And I was like,
11:08
Speaker 4: I have never achieved anything in my life by just
11:11
Speaker 4: relaxing and learning it happen.
11:12
Speaker 3: Right.
11:13
Speaker 4: So the control that you learn as an athlete and
11:15
Speaker 4: the discipline that you learn as an athlete does not
11:19
Speaker 4: hold you in good stead for something like IVF, where
11:21
Speaker 4: you have no control at all.
11:23
Speaker 3: And you know, I wrote a book.
11:25
Speaker 4: About fertility, and in it I was talking about alternative
11:29
Speaker 4: therapies and every medical practitioner that I spoke to IVF
11:34
Speaker 4: sort of specialist, said no, don't believe in them because
11:36
Speaker 4: they're not proven. But I think the thing that sort
11:39
Speaker 4: of gets missed is that sometimes when you're in that whole, big,
11:43
Speaker 4: uncontrolled chaos of IVF, you just want to control one thing,
11:46
Speaker 4: and it might be whether you go and have acupuncture,
11:49
Speaker 4: or whether you get a weekly massage, or whether you
11:52
Speaker 4: do something that in the cold light of day probably
11:55
Speaker 4: doesn't make sense. But for me, I just needed to
11:56
Speaker 4: control a little part of that whole journey. So that
12:00
Speaker 4: really did test me, and rather annoyingly, we did stop trying,
12:04
Speaker 4: and I did relax, and I did have a child,
12:06
Speaker 4: So you know, I've got a bit of I told
12:08
Speaker 4: you so from my mum.
12:09
Speaker 1: But if we had the crystal ball and you knew
12:12
Speaker 1: that was the case, then you can let it go.
12:16
Speaker 1: And it is incredibly infuriating when people do say I'll
12:20
Speaker 1: just relax, it will happen, because it's something that you
12:22
Speaker 1: want so much, so much. And that point you make
12:26
Speaker 1: about as an athlete, you worked incredibly hard. You were
12:30
Speaker 1: probably the hardest worker on your team. You know, you've
12:33
Speaker 1: said you weren't the most talented, but you worked the hardest.
12:37
Speaker 1: And with IVF, it doesn't matter how hard you work.
12:40
Speaker 1: You can take you know, do the injections at the
12:42
Speaker 1: right time. You can do all tick all these boxes.
12:45
Speaker 1: But there's a sense of you've got to hand it
12:47
Speaker 1: over to the universe, do you right?
12:49
Speaker 4: And then when you're an athlete, you spend your whole
12:51
Speaker 4: time knowing that if you push your body that little
12:53
Speaker 4: bit harder, if you stop eating chocolate, and if you
12:56
Speaker 4: stop drinking alcohol, and if you go off coffee and
12:59
Speaker 4: you do all the the things to find you new,
13:01
Speaker 4: then your body will reward you. But with IVF it's
13:04
Speaker 4: exactly the opposite, right, you can't sort of punish your
13:07
Speaker 4: body whatever you ask your body to do. And in
13:09
Speaker 4: the past, your body is always said, yep, I can
13:12
Speaker 4: do that. Suddenly your body isn't doing what it should
13:15
Speaker 4: do right. The very core of us were made to
13:17
Speaker 4: reproduce and my body wasn't doing it. And it's such
13:19
Speaker 4: a hard thing to get your head around.
13:22
Speaker 1: So how did you then, during that time manage and
13:26
Speaker 1: get your head around it? Because I know there'd be
13:29
Speaker 1: listeners going through it, and there'd be also listeners supporting
13:33
Speaker 1: friends and loved ones going through it.
13:36
Speaker 4: So for you, though, how did you manage that time?
13:39
Speaker 4: I'll probably not very well if I look back at it.
13:42
Speaker 4: You know, it took me a long time to just
13:44
Speaker 4: learn to trust the process. And when you're an athlete,
13:46
Speaker 4: it is all about the process. And it took me
13:49
Speaker 4: a long time just to learn to trust the process
13:51
Speaker 4: and to go Okay, the doctor is a specialist, I
13:53
Speaker 4: won't sort of second guessing by getting on doctor Google
13:56
Speaker 4: and finding things out. And I just became and really
14:00
Speaker 4: focused on the process and taking it one day at
14:02
Speaker 4: a time, because I think one of the things that's
14:05
Speaker 4: hard about something like IVF is you build up through
14:08
Speaker 4: the course of your injections, and then you have so
14:11
Speaker 4: much hope about like you know, when they harvest the eggs, Okay,
14:14
Speaker 4: how many eggs, how many embryos?
14:16
Speaker 3: What have we got left?
14:18
Speaker 4: We're going to do an implant And every point there's
14:21
Speaker 4: a point where you hope for the best and you
14:24
Speaker 4: might not always get the best. So I really just
14:26
Speaker 4: had to just learn to relax and let the process
14:28
Speaker 4: take care of itself. But I was a mess, Like
14:31
Speaker 4: I really felt my age during this process.
14:34
Speaker 3: Like I remember when I had my third miscarriage.
14:36
Speaker 4: I was forty two, we'd seen the heartbeat. It was
14:39
Speaker 4: just so hard, and I just remember just grieving so much.
14:44
Speaker 3: And the hard thing is you can't.
14:46
Speaker 4: Talk to people about it because we don't really have
14:48
Speaker 4: the words, like it's not a regular thing to talk about.
14:50
Speaker 4: And I had a conversation with someone the other day
14:52
Speaker 4: who said their daughter in law had told them that
14:55
Speaker 4: they were pregnant, and she said, oh, look, I told.
14:58
Speaker 3: Us, you know, as soon as you peed on the stick.
15:00
Speaker 4: Then they miscarried and they told us too soon, And
15:01
Speaker 4: I said, no, I reckon, I reckon, It's great that
15:03
Speaker 4: they told you, because then you know why she's sad
15:07
Speaker 4: or upset or angry or nonresponsive when you want to
15:10
Speaker 4: have a conversation with her. And I think we can
15:12
Speaker 4: afford to be a lot more open about these things.
15:14
Speaker 3: So when I look back at it now, I.
15:16
Speaker 4: Don't know that I did cope particularly well. And we
15:18
Speaker 4: actually stopped trying because I just realized that I was
15:22
Speaker 4: spending so much time and effort focusing on a child
15:25
Speaker 4: I didn't have, and I was losing focus on the
15:27
Speaker 4: child I did have, and I thought, I've got this
15:29
Speaker 4: beautiful little girl. I just need to be with her.
15:32
Speaker 4: And be her mum. But every day was a day
15:35
Speaker 4: of working through my feelings and working through how I
15:39
Speaker 4: was coping with this. And I look back now and
15:41
Speaker 4: it is a bit of a dark period in my life.
15:43
Speaker 4: And that's why when I got out of it, I
15:44
Speaker 4: actually had this huge pile of notes when I was
15:47
Speaker 4: pregnant with Austin, huge pile of notes, and I went
15:49
Speaker 4: to recycle them and I picked them up and I went, now,
15:52
Speaker 4: I'm going to write a book about this because I
15:54
Speaker 4: need to help other people go through this process because
15:56
Speaker 4: I learned so much about the process and about myself.
16:00
Speaker 1: And being open the way that you are having these
16:03
Speaker 1: discussions talking about miscarriage, and I'm so sorry for your miscarriages.
16:08
Speaker 1: Thank you that it gives other people permission, because, as
16:12
Speaker 1: you say, we don't have the language and it can
16:14
Speaker 1: be hard to know what to say and how to
16:18
Speaker 1: begin that discussion.
16:19
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I think the people who I just really
16:24
Speaker 4: appreciated through this time with people who didn't give me
16:27
Speaker 4: advice were people who sat with me and just said, Yep,
16:29
Speaker 4: that's rubbish, that's horrible. God, the universe is horrible. You
16:32
Speaker 4: just want someone to sit with you. I don't want
16:34
Speaker 4: someone to show me the way forward. And that's you know,
16:36
Speaker 4: when I was writing my book, what I realized was
16:38
Speaker 4: that we're all a bit the same. We just want
16:40
Speaker 4: someone just to sit with us, or just to say, oh,
16:42
Speaker 4: that's just crap, I'm so sorry. Right, you don't want
16:45
Speaker 4: someone to go. You'll be right, It'll happen, you know,
16:48
Speaker 4: just relax, Just do this. Have you tried. I don't
16:52
Speaker 4: want to hear it. I just want to be in
16:54
Speaker 4: my little hole. And that's a hard thing, right, you know,
16:58
Speaker 4: grieving over a miscarriage, you're sort of grieving over someone
17:01
Speaker 4: who hasn't even been born yet. And then the hardest
17:03
Speaker 4: thing is when you grieve over an embrya transplant, when
17:06
Speaker 4: you're doing IVF and it doesn't happen, and then you're
17:10
Speaker 4: grieving over something that actually didn't even really exists, Like
17:13
Speaker 4: you're grieving over the loss of hope or the plans
17:15
Speaker 4: you had for that baby. And that's the thing that
17:17
Speaker 4: I found the hardest after my last miscarriage, when we'd
17:20
Speaker 4: seen his heartbeat and we found out later it was
17:21
Speaker 4: a little boy.
17:22
Speaker 3: He was a little boy.
17:23
Speaker 4: Once you see his heartbeat, you start dreaming about what
17:26
Speaker 4: you're going to call him and what is going to
17:28
Speaker 4: be like? And oh how much will his sister love him?
17:30
Speaker 4: And all that sort of stuff, and that is what
17:32
Speaker 4: you grieve. You grieve the loss of that hope, and
17:34
Speaker 4: that's the hardest thing.
17:36
Speaker 1: And hope, I think, is such an important emotion for
17:41
Speaker 1: us all to have. And I remember when I went
17:45
Speaker 1: through IVF, I would think about it as being like
17:48
Speaker 1: a bubble of hope. And sometimes that bubble would be
17:52
Speaker 1: like a pinprick.
17:53
Speaker 4: Yes, And sometimes that bubble protects you from everything else
17:56
Speaker 4: going on is hoping, Yeah, I know this, I'm going
17:58
Speaker 4: to manifest yes, And other times it would be bigger,
18:01
Speaker 4: but I would try like mad just to hold on
18:04
Speaker 4: to it. But it's that awful loss of control.
18:08
Speaker 1: And I still have in a diary the tape that
18:11
Speaker 1: they put across my hand that said three eggs, and
18:16
Speaker 1: one of those eggs turned out to be Allegra, and
18:20
Speaker 1: for me it was like, oh, I've got three all
18:23
Speaker 1: these drugs that I've gone through this maybe maybe maybe,
18:27
Speaker 1: and just that hope, and I've still I look at
18:30
Speaker 1: that every now and then and just go, I cannot
18:32
Speaker 1: believe from that. I name Allegra, seventeen year old beautiful doorshy.
18:38
Speaker 3: It's amazing, isn't it.
18:39
Speaker 4: And you know, when you're out of it and you
18:41
Speaker 4: look back, you just I find it really incredible that
18:46
Speaker 4: like that you survived it, and that our relationship survived
18:49
Speaker 4: it and our little family unit survived it because I
18:52
Speaker 4: was so I had tunnel vision the whole time, and
18:57
Speaker 4: you neglect other things in your life and other relationships,
19:00
Speaker 4: but you have to right that's the only way that
19:02
Speaker 4: you can do it, and that.
19:04
Speaker 3: There's no wrong or right way to do it. No,
19:06
Speaker 3: as well, that's true.
19:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, well some people might want to just broadcast it
19:11
Speaker 4: to the world, whereas that wasn't I just wanted it
19:13
Speaker 4: to do it, and then I just wanted to go tadah.
19:15
Speaker 3: I'm pregnant, yay. And I suppose as well. I wonder
19:19
Speaker 3: with you. Were you gentle on yourself through the process? Nah? Nah?
19:24
Speaker 4: And my husband used to say to me, sweetheart, you
19:26
Speaker 4: got to learn to be gentle. No, and I'd go
19:29
Speaker 4: and train or do something and punish myself and that
19:32
Speaker 4: it was such an unhelpful approach.
19:34
Speaker 3: So it's hard.
19:35
Speaker 4: Once you've been an athlete, it's hard to learn to
19:37
Speaker 4: be gentle on yourself, particularly gentle on your body when
19:40
Speaker 4: it's not doing what it should be doing right, because
19:42
Speaker 4: it serves you well your whole life.
19:44
Speaker 1: And that is such a realization, isn't it That sense
19:48
Speaker 1: of everything that has served me so well and got
19:51
Speaker 1: me these accolades and all this sort of stuff, it's.
19:53
Speaker 3: Letting me down.
19:54
Speaker 4: Yes, And there's a sense of failure and I'm not
19:57
Speaker 4: great with failure, and you know that vulnerability to say
20:02
Speaker 4: out loud, my body isn't doing what it should. You know,
20:04
Speaker 4: I'm used to working hard and succeeding and getting what
20:08
Speaker 4: I want through hard work. And it was such a
20:12
Speaker 4: mind game to say to anyone we're doing IVF and
20:15
Speaker 4: we haven't been successful, because that's just a vulnerability that
20:19
Speaker 4: I'm so uncomfortable with.
20:20
Speaker 3: So that was difficult as well, are you better with
20:23
Speaker 3: failure now?
20:24
Speaker 4: No? I'm not still not great with failures?
20:28
Speaker 3: I was?
20:31
Speaker 4: Yes, Now I've learned. I'm fantastic. Oh look I still do.
20:35
Speaker 4: I'm better because I do know what. I'm better with failure,
20:37
Speaker 4: not because of IVF, but because I'm trying to model
20:40
Speaker 4: it for my kids, because i want them to understand
20:42
Speaker 4: that it's okay to fail, because through failure you actually
20:45
Speaker 4: learn more than through success.
20:47
Speaker 3: And so I'm not better with it. I don't like it,
20:51
Speaker 3: but I.
20:51
Speaker 4: Actually make myself sit with it and learn from it
20:54
Speaker 4: and show my kids. So you know, I'm really mindful
20:57
Speaker 4: of showing both my kids that mommy doesn't know what
21:00
Speaker 4: she's doing and mummy failed, and this is what we're
21:03
Speaker 4: going to do about it. And I got to say
21:05
Speaker 4: when we went on our trip around Australia with our caravan,
21:07
Speaker 4: like Matthew and I are not caravaners, and it was
21:10
Speaker 4: so good for us, Like the kids that go, what
21:12
Speaker 4: are we doing and we go, we don't know, and
21:15
Speaker 4: it was so like the looks on their faces like.
21:17
Speaker 3: We're in the middle of nowhere and you two don't
21:19
Speaker 3: know what we're doing.
21:20
Speaker 4: And we'd be like, no, no, we don't know what
21:21
Speaker 4: we're doing, but we're going to take this step and
21:23
Speaker 4: this step and this step and we'll work it out.
21:25
Speaker 4: See even that though, Liz, you let go, but then
21:28
Speaker 4: you're still talking about the steps.
21:30
Speaker 3: You gotta.
21:33
Speaker 4: We wanted to like, yeah, we wanted them to say that,
21:36
Speaker 4: like you can say you don't know, but you can
21:38
Speaker 4: then have a plan to get out of it. So anyway, Yeah,
21:42
Speaker 4: is that funny? I'm still not great with failure. I
21:45
Speaker 4: don't like it. It doesn't sit come to it. But I'm
21:46
Speaker 4: getting let's say I'm getting better. I'm trying.
21:49
Speaker 1: All that we can ever do is try to be better.
21:52
Speaker 1: So perhaps if you were to reframe it like a competition,
21:56
Speaker 1: I'm going to be better at failure.
21:59
Speaker 3: Yes, it is the way.
22:00
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm actually and it's not even failure, I'm actually
22:02
Speaker 4: learning to be better with vulnerability. We're saying I don't
22:06
Speaker 4: know what the answer is, I don't know how to
22:09
Speaker 4: do it, I don't know what I'm doing.
22:11
Speaker 3: That's a real like. They're the things that I really
22:13
Speaker 3: struggle with. And then if you fail.
22:15
Speaker 4: You sort of you've sort of presaged the fact that
22:18
Speaker 4: you were having a really good go and you didn't
22:20
Speaker 4: really know what you were doing, and oh, well, we'll
22:22
Speaker 4: go away and we'll learn from it.
22:24
Speaker 1: And almost I think that going away and learning from it,
22:27
Speaker 1: to me, that is the beauty and failure.
22:29
Speaker 3: I've had numerous failures.
22:31
Speaker 1: In my life, and often quite public ones, and at
22:35
Speaker 1: the time it's excruciating and humiliating, but I don't regret
22:39
Speaker 1: those failures because I often find otherwise I wouldn't have
22:43
Speaker 1: said yes to things.
22:44
Speaker 4: Yes, And that's the hard thing, isn't it That when
22:46
Speaker 4: you fail, you actually dust yourself up and go again.
22:48
Speaker 4: And I've got to say that's what my sporting career
22:50
Speaker 4: has taught me. I'm super competitive and I don't like failure,
22:54
Speaker 4: but I also know that if you fail, that's the
22:57
Speaker 4: best time to learn something. But there's no point learning
22:59
Speaker 4: and if you I'm going to get up and have
23:00
Speaker 4: another crack. And I always say to my kids, it
23:02
Speaker 4: doesn't matter that you fell down. What matters is that
23:04
Speaker 4: you get up and you go again. And I don't
23:06
Speaker 4: have to like it, and I don't have to be
23:08
Speaker 4: comfortable with it, but I absolutely accept the fact.
23:11
Speaker 3: That that's the best way to be.
23:13
Speaker 1: Although you don't like talking about failure, what would you
23:16
Speaker 1: say is your biggest failure?
23:20
Speaker 4: Oh, that's a really good question. Often get asked about,
23:23
Speaker 4: you know, my best moment, my biggest failure. I'm not
23:29
Speaker 4: stopping because I don't haven't had failures. I'm trying to
23:31
Speaker 4: sort through through them.
23:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
23:37
Speaker 3: Look, I guess I wasn't a great lawyer.
23:39
Speaker 1: You know.
23:40
Speaker 4: When I got out of law school and I thought
23:42
Speaker 4: I could be the Captain of the Australian netball team
23:44
Speaker 4: and partner at a law firm. It took me about
23:47
Speaker 4: eighteen months or two years to think, Wow, this isn't
23:51
Speaker 4: going to happen. I suspect the people I worked in
23:53
Speaker 4: the law firm with knew pretty much before that that
23:56
Speaker 4: wasn't going to happen. But I felt such a failure
23:58
Speaker 4: because I couldn't do both. I couldn't make them both happen.
24:01
Speaker 4: And I decided to stop working as a solicitor. And
24:06
Speaker 4: my dad, who didn't go past year nine but busted
24:09
Speaker 4: his chops to make sure that my sister and I
24:11
Speaker 4: went to university and got an education, he just looked
24:14
Speaker 4: at me and he said, but you've wasted all these years,
24:16
Speaker 4: Like why are you stopping now? And I did feel
24:19
Speaker 4: like a failure because I wasn't continuing with the career
24:24
Speaker 4: that my study, Like six years at university took me
24:27
Speaker 4: a couple of years longer because of netball to do it,
24:30
Speaker 4: and then you know, an extra six months at the
24:32
Speaker 4: College of Law to get admitted as a solicitor and
24:35
Speaker 4: a barrister to the Supreme Court. In one respect, it
24:39
Speaker 4: was a failure because I actually said, I'm not going
24:41
Speaker 4: to do that anymore. So that's probably the biggest failure
24:45
Speaker 4: that I've had, but it was part of a risk
24:48
Speaker 4: which involved I actually want to do something that makes
24:50
Speaker 4: me happy.
24:51
Speaker 3: And I just got married.
24:53
Speaker 4: Matthew and I just got married, and I just had
24:56
Speaker 4: this moment where I was exhausted from playing netball and
24:58
Speaker 4: trying to work.
25:00
Speaker 3: Used to find it like, if I if I could.
25:01
Speaker 4: Keep the netball side of everyone happy, then I work
25:04
Speaker 4: would be unhapy because I wouldn't be there long enough.
25:06
Speaker 4: And if I stayed there long enough in my day
25:08
Speaker 4: to get the work done, then my coach would be
25:09
Speaker 4: unhappy at netball. I just came home one day and
25:12
Speaker 4: I said, I just can't do this anymore. And Matthew said,
25:15
Speaker 4: that's fine, but I wish you tom me before we
25:16
Speaker 4: had a mortgage. I'm sorry, sorry about that, but you
25:22
Speaker 4: know that, like that was a failure in that I
25:24
Speaker 4: actually failed to be something that I had I thought
25:28
Speaker 4: I wanted to be. But then that door opened up,
25:31
Speaker 4: and I've got a much more enjoyable career now.
25:34
Speaker 3: I think.
25:34
Speaker 4: I'm sure there's plenty of lawyers who'd hate this career.
25:36
Speaker 4: But you know, there's been times on television where I've
25:39
Speaker 4: said dumb things or whatever, and it's made the headlines,
25:43
Speaker 4: or I've gone too hard at someone and you know
25:46
Speaker 4: it's a failure. But I think to myself, well, I've
25:48
Speaker 4: just learned to not do that. And you've got to
25:50
Speaker 4: remember that when you say something, there's a person at
25:52
Speaker 4: the end of that. So it's just about continually learning
25:55
Speaker 4: and also about being brave. I think to make that
26:00
Speaker 4: decision to leave law or something that from the outside
26:03
Speaker 4: is shiny and perfect, what a career, what a profession,
26:08
Speaker 4: and something that your parents had really wanted you to do,
26:11
Speaker 4: it takes your bravery, I think, to tap into.
26:14
Speaker 3: But I love netball. Yeah, but it wasn't paying me.
26:17
Speaker 3: I was earning that time.
26:18
Speaker 4: I was earning about two thousand dollars a year, three
26:21
Speaker 4: pairs of shoes and six rolls of strapping day for
26:24
Speaker 4: my ankles. So there was no money in it, right,
26:27
Speaker 4: and I had to go away and find a way
26:29
Speaker 4: to earn money. And I started off some netball coaching
26:31
Speaker 4: clinics and they eventually became massive. I was coaching three
26:34
Speaker 4: thousand kids a year through the school holidays, and I
26:37
Speaker 4: did that all the way through my playing career and
26:39
Speaker 4: for some years afterwards. So there's always a way through,
26:41
Speaker 4: and I think failure sometimes makes you It's part of
26:44
Speaker 4: making that choice and going, Okay, what do I really
26:47
Speaker 4: want to focus on?
26:47
Speaker 3: What do I care about? What spins my wheels?
26:50
Speaker 4: And it's not like, you know, that's saying do something
26:53
Speaker 4: you're loving you never work a day in your life.
26:54
Speaker 4: I don't subscribe to that, because even if you're doing
26:56
Speaker 4: something you love, sometimes it's just hard to work.
26:59
Speaker 3: Boring. Yeah, every job has its moments exactly. People, you've
27:03
Speaker 3: got to deal with you.
27:04
Speaker 1: You're like, no, I love the work, but I don't
27:07
Speaker 1: like you know, I love.
27:08
Speaker 4: The work, but I hate doing that, you know, Like
27:10
Speaker 4: I used to.
27:11
Speaker 3: I used to have to pack show bags for kids.
27:15
Speaker 3: Show bag.
27:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, so when I did these netball coaching clinics, so
27:18
Speaker 4: I packed show bags and I packed three thousand show
27:21
Speaker 4: bags a year, and it was boring and annoying, and
27:24
Speaker 4: I'd have to pack them all than my garage and
27:26
Speaker 4: there'd be a sunny day outside that I wasn't out,
27:29
Speaker 4: you know, enjoying, and I hated it. But then I
27:31
Speaker 4: love turning up and coaching kids. Right, So I think
27:34
Speaker 4: you know, in everything that you do, there's always a
27:36
Speaker 4: level of hard work. And if you don't subscribe to
27:38
Speaker 4: doing that hard work, no matter what you choose, you're
27:40
Speaker 4: actually not you're not going to succeed. So you know,
27:43
Speaker 4: and then I've had a few other failures. You know,
27:45
Speaker 4: I had a business that failed and it was ice cream.
27:47
Speaker 4: It was an ice cream business. I brought into a
27:49
Speaker 4: franchise and it just didn't fail. But you know, we
27:53
Speaker 4: lost a bit of money. But again, you just learn right.
27:55
Speaker 4: And I'm the sort of person that, even though I
27:57
Speaker 4: don't like failure, I'm actually able to just go to
27:59
Speaker 4: draw a line and go right, that was it.
28:01
Speaker 3: I'm moving on.
28:02
Speaker 4: I don't dwell on that sort of stuff, except for
28:05
Speaker 4: during menopause, when you wake up at three am and
28:07
Speaker 4: have a good twelve on things while you're sweating your
28:09
Speaker 4: heart out. But as a rule, I don't sort of
28:11
Speaker 4: let myself get dragged down by that sort of stuff
28:13
Speaker 4: because it destroys you.
28:15
Speaker 1: You mentioned menopause. I love my menopause gel and my
28:20
Speaker 1: tablets that I'm taking. That that's great for me. How
28:23
Speaker 1: do you manage menopause? Well, same as you actually just started.
28:26
Speaker 1: Last night, bloody fantastic ya. I slept the best.
28:32
Speaker 4: I actually feel a bit hungover today, Oh my goodness,
28:36
Speaker 4: because you have one of those heavy, big sleeps where
28:38
Speaker 4: you don't move, like the face plant.
28:41
Speaker 3: The creases now my face. So it's like that's a
28:44
Speaker 3: good sleep.
28:45
Speaker 4: At least I've got something to blame the creases on.
28:47
Speaker 4: It just my menopause shell. But that's understanding that your
28:50
Speaker 4: body is changing, right that. Like I thought for a
28:53
Speaker 4: few years that I called, you know, cut out alcohol
28:55
Speaker 4: and cut out coffee and do more exercise, but none
28:58
Speaker 4: of that, Like I mean, you should do it anyway.
29:00
Speaker 4: But it's like, well, I actually need some help here
29:03
Speaker 4: and turning up to the doctor and saying, ah, I
29:06
Speaker 4: just don't feel like myself. And I said to my husband,
29:08
Speaker 4: I got home from the doctors and I said to
29:10
Speaker 4: him and he knew I was going, and he's super supportive,
29:13
Speaker 4: and he said, how I was it? I said, do
29:14
Speaker 4: you know what, even if she didn't give me anything,
29:17
Speaker 4: just having the conversation with someone who I'm not related to,
29:20
Speaker 4: who doesn't depend on me, who didn't know me before
29:24
Speaker 4: I walked in such a relief just to have that conversation.
29:27
Speaker 4: So you know, I really want to embrace getting older
29:30
Speaker 4: because it's such a bloody privilege. So you know, during COVID,
29:34
Speaker 4: when none of us could get to the hair dresses,
29:36
Speaker 4: I noticed that my hair was sort of a bit
29:38
Speaker 4: more silver than I thought. And then I one day
29:40
Speaker 4: I was I was like forty eight, and I went,
29:42
Speaker 4: I don't care. I'm just going to go with it.
29:44
Speaker 4: And I was working on Chaannel nine and I rang
29:46
Speaker 4: my agent and I said, oh, I'm going to just let
29:48
Speaker 4: my hair go silver. How do I need to manage this?
29:51
Speaker 4: And she's like, Darling, it's a pandemic. They're not going
29:53
Speaker 4: to worry about your hair. I'm okay, great, And no
29:55
Speaker 4: one's ever breathed a word to me about it. And
29:58
Speaker 4: I think sometimes we're so fearful of going gray, or
30:02
Speaker 4: taking metopause hormone stuff, or admitting to someone that you're
30:05
Speaker 4: getting older and you're aging. And then you admit it
30:08
Speaker 4: and everyone's got their own stuff going on, and you're like, oh,
30:11
Speaker 4: I actually should have done this years ago. I should
30:13
Speaker 4: have talked about this year ago. I should have gone
30:15
Speaker 4: to the doctor years ago. I shouldn't have put up
30:17
Speaker 4: with it. Just embrace it.
30:19
Speaker 3: Well, it's freeing, isn't it so freeing? Right? And you
30:22
Speaker 3: get great sleeps and your hair is beautiful. I love it.
30:27
Speaker 3: By thank you.
30:27
Speaker 1: That's silver gray color. Yeah, and it's so liberating.
30:31
Speaker 4: I don't have to spend three hundred bucks and half
30:33
Speaker 4: a day the hairdresser every month. It's like, oh, I
30:36
Speaker 4: mean my hairdresser hates it because you think so I'm
30:38
Speaker 4: bad for business when I say, just let your hair
30:40
Speaker 4: go gray. It's fantastic. And I know it's not for everybody,
30:42
Speaker 4: but for me. And you know, my grandmother, my late grandmother,
30:46
Speaker 4: who I adored, I remember one day whinging about getting
30:49
Speaker 4: older and she said, Darling, it's better than the alternative.
30:51
Speaker 3: And I thought, what a way to look at things.
30:54
Speaker 1: Right.
30:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm getting older, I'm getting wiser, I'm still learning,
30:57
Speaker 4: and I'm just embracing about what it is. But you know,
31:00
Speaker 4: menopause is a bit it just smashes you. But there
31:04
Speaker 4: is a way to get through it, right, And whether
31:05
Speaker 4: that's going to a doctor or going to a therapist
31:08
Speaker 4: and just talking to someone and have someone go it's normal.
31:12
Speaker 3: Do you ever do that, go and talk to a therapist?
31:14
Speaker 1: No?
31:14
Speaker 3: I don't.
31:15
Speaker 4: And you know the thing that I don't is that
31:18
Speaker 4: or the reason why I don't. I actually don't know
31:19
Speaker 4: where to start, and I probably at one point I
31:22
Speaker 4: might go, you know what, I might just do this,
31:23
Speaker 4: So no, I don't. We used to have psychologists work
31:28
Speaker 4: with us when I was playing, but back then, like
31:32
Speaker 4: well being wasn't at the forefront like it is now.
31:34
Speaker 4: Like I think it's fantastic. You know, you look at
31:36
Speaker 4: the Sports Commission, the trained Sports Commission and their whole mantra.
31:39
Speaker 4: At the moment, their strategy is winning well and that
31:43
Speaker 4: means that it's about winning, but it's also about doing
31:46
Speaker 4: it well well being. And you know, when I look
31:48
Speaker 4: at now the focus on well being for our players,
31:51
Speaker 4: our netball players, I love it. I love that they're
31:54
Speaker 4: encouraged to figure out how do you look after your
31:57
Speaker 4: well being mentally as much as you look after your
31:59
Speaker 4: well being physically. And I'm probably from that older generation
32:03
Speaker 4: that I didn't really spend much time with the sports psychologists.
32:06
Speaker 4: I go in and I just think, what can I
32:08
Speaker 4: tell him so that I can leave as soon as
32:10
Speaker 4: I can and get to dinner.
32:12
Speaker 3: See, isn't that interesting? Yeah?
32:14
Speaker 1: And almost now I think it's important, and I know
32:19
Speaker 1: I need to do more of this as well, because
32:21
Speaker 1: I spend so much of my time looking after everyone
32:23
Speaker 1: around me. That I often lose myself in that, yes,
32:27
Speaker 1: and that I think listening to you talk, it's like
32:29
Speaker 1: you keep everything else going, But what about actually you
32:34
Speaker 1: in the midst of it.
32:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I don't often think about it, but I
32:37
Speaker 4: will say though, I absolutely make time almost every day
32:41
Speaker 4: to get an hour's exercise.
32:42
Speaker 3: And that is not flogging myself anymore. It's going for
32:45
Speaker 3: a walk.
32:46
Speaker 4: And I live on a farm, and I walk down
32:47
Speaker 4: our country road and I don't put headphones in. I
32:50
Speaker 4: listen to the sounds and it's my thinking processing time.
32:53
Speaker 4: And you know, one day I might go and speak
32:56
Speaker 4: to someone and get some therapy about about all the things.
32:59
Speaker 4: But for me at the moment, that is my time
33:03
Speaker 4: to just work through things. And I always get back
33:05
Speaker 4: and I feel so good. And the days that I
33:07
Speaker 4: don't do it, why don't I feel good because I
33:10
Speaker 4: haven't done anything, And I reckon it's a combination of
33:13
Speaker 4: the hormones that you get when you exercise. All those
33:15
Speaker 4: endorphins make you feel good. But just having that time
33:17
Speaker 4: where I don't have any stimulation mentally, I can just
33:22
Speaker 4: look at the grass, look at the cows, hear the birds,
33:25
Speaker 4: and just walk along and just be with myself. It's
33:27
Speaker 4: so important and often that's the first thing that women
33:30
Speaker 4: when you want to care about everybody else drop off, right.
33:32
Speaker 3: I don't have time. I don't have time.
33:34
Speaker 4: And the other thing I do is pilates, because it
33:36
Speaker 4: actually makes you do for an hour. You can't wander
33:40
Speaker 4: off in your thoughts. I've got to do this for
33:43
Speaker 4: so and Sao. I've got to cook dinner. I've got
33:45
Speaker 4: to pick up that for my kids. I've got to
33:47
Speaker 4: do that registration. You actually have to sit there and
33:50
Speaker 4: be in your body. And but that's my therapy, is
33:53
Speaker 4: just stopping my brain going a million miles an hour.
33:57
Speaker 3: I'm with you with the pilates.
33:58
Speaker 1: I love pilates and try once a week at least
34:02
Speaker 1: to get there. And it's so good. You're right to
34:05
Speaker 1: just be in the moment, just to finish off. There'd
34:09
Speaker 1: be people listening who are resonating with everything you're saying.
34:13
Speaker 1: What's a final piece of wisdom or advice that you
34:16
Speaker 1: could leave with them?
34:17
Speaker 4: Oh, man, you asked hard questions. I don't know that
34:24
Speaker 4: I'm particularly full of wisdom. You know, I'm full of shit,
34:26
Speaker 4: but not wisdom.
34:29
Speaker 3: But you're honest, and that's what resonates with people.
34:32
Speaker 4: And I think that's it right, just be yourself. And
34:35
Speaker 4: sometimes I've been afraid over the years of being myself.
34:37
Speaker 4: You know, when I was at school, I wasn't the
34:39
Speaker 4: most popular kid. I was a tall, gangly kid with
34:42
Speaker 4: braces and a perm you know, in netball teams. You know,
34:45
Speaker 4: I was playing goalkeeper, which is not the popular kids position,
34:49
Speaker 4: you know, so you know I played an unfashionable position.
34:52
Speaker 3: I was tall, and I was gangling.
34:54
Speaker 4: I was never one of the popular kids, and I
34:55
Speaker 4: was always a bit of a nerd, and all those
34:58
Speaker 4: things when I was a teenager in particular, I hate
35:00
Speaker 4: it about myself, but now I'm really happy about them.
35:03
Speaker 4: So I think it's just about just accept yourself, right,
35:06
Speaker 4: because if you don't accept yourself, no one else is
35:08
Speaker 4: going to accept you. And I've always tried to be
35:10
Speaker 4: honest and behave with integrity, and sometimes that's landed me
35:14
Speaker 4: in trouble. You know, when you talk about my failures,
35:16
Speaker 4: I've said things that I probably should have catched in
35:18
Speaker 4: a bit of a better way and been critical when
35:21
Speaker 4: really I should have been curious and those sort of things.
35:24
Speaker 4: But if because I behave in a way that I
35:27
Speaker 4: think that is has integrity and honesty. I can also
35:30
Speaker 4: go back and honestly look at my behavior and go, well,
35:34
Speaker 4: that wasn't right. You should have done things differently. And
35:37
Speaker 4: I do try to not beat myself up. I'd rather
35:39
Speaker 4: learn from it than beat myself up about it. Liz,
35:43
Speaker 4: I've loved talking with you.
35:44
Speaker 3: Oh thanks, Jesse. Are we over already? I feel like
35:46
Speaker 3: we've abady, Just start it. I love talking with you.
35:50
Speaker 3: I love talking with you. Let's do it again, So yes,
35:53
Speaker 3: please
36:00
Speaker 1: Two