Latest / Outdoor Journal Radio: The Podcast / Episode 244: What’s Really Happening to BC’s Wild Salmon?

Transcript

Episode 244: What’s Really Happening to BC’s Wild Salmon? · Outdoor Journal Radio: The Podcast

0:22
SPEAKER_02: This episode of Outdoor Journal Radio is brought to you in part by the Invasive Species Center, protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Freedom Cruise Canada, rent the boat, own the memories, and JMB Cycle a Marine, your home for all things power sports, boats, and equipment.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: And now, another exciting episode in the adventures of Outdoor Journal Radio.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the program.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh Angela Viola, Peter Bowman, uh, Nikki V and uh Dean Taylor over there.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Nikki V and Dean T.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: Dean.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how long Nikki V is gonna be with us today with that coffee.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: How are you feeling over there?
1:12
SPEAKER_01: I am surviving.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh boy.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: We're alive.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: We made it.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: First cough we hear from you, and you're gonna be escorted off the set.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: Off the property.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: Um so nice cough, Nick.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: You say, please don't throw me at a briar patch, sir.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Please.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh that's awesome.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: We get a lot of uh folks wanting to know how come we don't spend a whole lot of time talking about salmon and talking about in particular BC salmon.
1:41
SPEAKER_04: I had some for uh supper last night.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: Did you?
1:44
SPEAKER_02: I damn well did.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: What did you have?
1:46
SPEAKER_04: I had Pacific salmon for supper.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: Pacific salmon.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: So Chinook.
1:50
SPEAKER_04: Well, they don't say they say just Pacific Salmon.
1:51
SPEAKER_04: What do they say?
1:52
SPEAKER_04: What is a Pacific salmon?
1:53
SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna find that out today.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: Why, you may ask?
1:57
SPEAKER_02: Because he knows that our special guest today uh is Katrina Connors, uh, who will be joining us shortly.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: She is the senior director for Pacific Salmon Foundation.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh she's been there since 2008.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: So I would imagine she knows a thing or two, and she can certainly tell us what is a Pacific Salmon.
2:16
SPEAKER_04: She better know that one, okay?
2:17
SPEAKER_02: That's an easy one.
2:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think so.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh she also serves as a Canadian commissioner uh to the Pacific Salmon Commission.
2:26
SPEAKER_04: A lot of commissions there, right?
2:27
SPEAKER_02: Whatever that is.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Commission commission.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: She must be a salesperson.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Commission.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: A lot of commission.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Dean.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you picked up on it.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Mr.
2:35
SPEAKER_04: Bowman did not, but that's what I was talking, but you were talking over me again.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: What else is new?
2:39
SPEAKER_04: I know.
2:40
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh yes.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: So we're going to talk about uh all good things, uh, West Coast, Pacific salmon in particular.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: We have heard stories, uh, I've heard stories since the 70s and 80s about it seems like every four or five years the sky's falling out west because uh you know, four million, eight billion salmon did not return this year to spawn in their uh homeland rivers.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: True.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden, three, four years later, oops, just kidding, they're back.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: So who knows?
3:14
SPEAKER_02: But there seems to be more about I would say the West Coast fishery of missing fish and just about anywhere else that I can think of.
3:24
SPEAKER_04: I wonder if it's a generic thing too, and they say like they they're calling it salmon, but let's just say the pinks are on the down ball, and that's all they're talking about.
3:31
SPEAKER_04: Is the you know, well, maybe we'll find out some about that too.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: I just think the vastness of their terrain.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's one thing in a lake, you know, you're in a lake.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, even a big lake like Lake Ontario.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: I remember years ago there was a big problem with walleye in the Bay of Quinty, and they were worried that they were on the decline, and that's in Lake Ontario, trying to find them worse than a needle in a haystack.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: But when you're talking the Pacific Ocean, like that's almost impossible.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, we're gonna find out how they do it, uh, how they collect data and what they do with those tabulations here very shortly.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: But first, first, uh, the store.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: Shop.fishingcanada.com.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: We have good news, ladies and gentlemen.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh, good.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: No way.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're gonna unveil the good news and see if we can do this here.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
4:22
SPEAKER_04: Uh oh.
4:22
SPEAKER_04: What's he doing?
4:23
SPEAKER_01: Drum roll, please.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: That there is the new and improved muskie hoodie.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: It finally came in.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: We're all done.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: It's brown, as you can tell.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Where is it?
4:36
SPEAKER_01: It's on my body.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, on your body.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: That's all you're doing.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: Oh, oh, I was looking at the screen.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: You're looking at you.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: You're looking at you.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Stop looking at yourself.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: You're so ving.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: You probably think the song is about you.
4:46
SPEAKER_04: You probably think the sweatshirt's for you.
4:47
SPEAKER_04: Who wrote that?
4:48
SPEAKER_04: Uh, Carly Simon?
4:50
SPEAKER_02: Carly Simon?
4:50
SPEAKER_02: Look at you.
4:51
SPEAKER_04: I'm a metalhead, bud.
4:53
SPEAKER_04: I I know it all.
4:53
SPEAKER_04: Well, she's not Carly Simon.
4:55
SPEAKER_04: I'm showing you my eclectic uh Jesus.
5:01
SPEAKER_04: All right, back to the store.
5:02
SPEAKER_03: Take Dean's drum away from me.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, we got that.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: The two new t-shirts are up.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: All the other species hoodies are up.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: And we are in the midst of rebirthing the store.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: So it'll be quicker, faster, more secure.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I like.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: We're looking at just giving her a bit of an upgrade.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: So that'll be awesome.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: You guys are on there.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Did I hear we had a crash today or something along the way?
5:27
SPEAKER_02: What?
5:28
SPEAKER_02: No?
5:28
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm just I I hear things in the hallway.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: I think you ought to get them hearing aids checked.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: When I go, when I go to the coffee machine, I hear things rumblings.
5:37
SPEAKER_04: Where do you hear that from?
5:38
SPEAKER_04: Like a male voice or a female voice, usually.
5:40
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
5:42
SPEAKER_04: How the hell do you think?
5:44
SPEAKER_04: Well, you can't tell the pits.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: Voices in your head are confusing you.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: I have sounds in my head always.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: So the new hoodies are there.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: Um you guys have already bought out all the pikes, so we have more pike hoodies.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Come on, really?
5:59
SPEAKER_01: All of our course.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: I think I got two pike hoodies left in the back.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: What?
6:03
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: That is awesome.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, it's a nice looking hoodie.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: We're replenishing, but by the time this goes out, we will more than likely have uh all the pike hoodies back in stock.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: So keep your eyes out for that.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: I do love uh that muskie hoodie though.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, this muskie hoodie, the color, it's a darker brown.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: If you guys have seen the caramel walleye hoodie, it's a it's a bit of a darker brown, like almost like a brown leather brown.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's really nice.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: It goes great with a mocha caramel.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: A mocha caramel kind of a uh uh dark oak sort of and how is it walnut, just out of curiosity.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm getting hits of beans.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: How is it that you have one of those on your body?
6:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, when you guys go off for two weeks in the middle of nowhere on adventures and just go for a vacation, and the rest of us are at the office working, you know, shit gets done.
6:59
SPEAKER_04: Ah, that's I always wondered about that with our vacation time up.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, your vacation time with the schedule you guys have, I think just you know Oh man, because yeah, we were definitely you guys were just out there kicking your feet up and relaxing beautiful weather.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: 15 hours.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: If I were a gambling man, if I were a gambling man, which you are, I would say the chances of you working extra hard while we were gone is it's a minus number.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, unfortunately, you you can bet with minus odds, and that usually means that they're the favorite.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna take that as a compliment.
7:34
SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna bet on Angie's bet.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: So you're double downing on the favorite.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm done on that.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm good with that.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: I got a good feeling about this one.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: If you guys want your own hoodie, make sure to go to shop.fishingcanada.com.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: Because that's that's where they all live.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: That's they all live.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: That's their home.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: Go take one from their home.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: Clearly, that's the only way I'm gonna get one.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: Damn, clearly.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: If we get one at all.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:58
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: All right.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh so moving on with the program to listener feedback.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Listener feedback.
8:06
SPEAKER_04: In response to our discussion of live shows.
8:10
SPEAKER_04: Oh, live shows.
8:11
SPEAKER_02: Juchen Kim.
8:14
SPEAKER_02: Juchen Kim.
8:14
SPEAKER_02: Juchen Kim.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: Juchen.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not Juskin.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: No, it's Juch.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: Juchen, yeah.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: Juchenkim uh dash D6X via YouTube.
8:24
SPEAKER_04: I love these crazy names.
8:25
SPEAKER_04: D6X.
8:26
SPEAKER_04: Juchen Kim.
8:27
SPEAKER_04: It just tops it off perfect.
8:29
SPEAKER_04: I love it.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh Dushin says uh or Juchen.
8:35
SPEAKER_03: Oh, Dushin, oh my god.
8:37
SPEAKER_03: I would love to That's a dyslexic mistake that you might regret one day.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: I would uh love a live show, says uh Juchen.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: Juchen, yes.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh would uh love y'all to talk about salmon.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: Wow, what a coincidence.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: We are gonna talk about that today.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh since they're running now, he's talking to fall run the salmon, obviously.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh maybe uh share some recipes.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, he's talking eat and salmon.
9:06
SPEAKER_04: I ate it last night.
9:07
SPEAKER_04: Remember, I just said that.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: How did you prepare it?
9:09
SPEAKER_04: Maybe you can uh give juice I'll give you a really condensed version of how complex this is.
9:15
SPEAKER_04: I made the wife do it.
9:16
SPEAKER_04: She does a good job.
9:18
SPEAKER_04: She cooks it up for me.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: The wife, but it's okay.
9:23
SPEAKER_03: I eat it.
9:24
SPEAKER_03: It's delicious.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: By the way, uh uh uh we're having uh uh sauce making school this uh Sunday at the Viola residence.
9:32
SPEAKER_04: Get too.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: You're invited if you would like coming.
9:34
SPEAKER_04: Well, what time would that be?
9:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think I think 10 o'clock.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: 10 o'clock Sunday morning.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: 10 o'clock Sunday morning when we're gonna be able to do it.
9:41
SPEAKER_04: I might I'm gonna be uh I'm gonna be napping e-bound Saturday.
9:44
SPEAKER_04: I don't know about Sunday, so uh thank you for the invite.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: And and it's funny because I just prepared salmon for you last week or the week before.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: I forgot all about that.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: So have I.
9:57
SPEAKER_04: Prepared salmon for me.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's trout.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: Trout! Same thing.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: We could have used salmon.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we used steelhead.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: You forgot?
10:04
SPEAKER_04: No, I forgot, yeah.
10:05
SPEAKER_04: No, no, no.
10:06
SPEAKER_04: It was good.
10:07
SPEAKER_04: No, it was good, but you didn't have I have to I have to say I give you kudos because it was very good for what you had limited resources.
10:14
SPEAKER_04: I had nothing, but it was still beautiful.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: Mayo and uh some um mustard, yellow mustard, mustard and mayo, and limited salt and pepper.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: There was something else you put in there mayo, mustard, milk.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: To make it flush.
10:27
SPEAKER_04: And am I tell you what?
10:28
SPEAKER_04: Woo! I don't know if you ever had mustard on fish before.
10:31
SPEAKER_04: It sounds gross.
10:32
SPEAKER_04: It's not, it's good.
10:33
SPEAKER_04: Like it's really good.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: So there you go.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh juice, juice, whatever.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: Juice.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:39
SPEAKER_04: Um yeah.
10:41
SPEAKER_04: And we got more about salmon in the show today, too, coming up.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't think we're gonna talk much about cooking and preparing salmon with the folks from the uh that's a future show federation that looks after salmon.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: I don't think cooking them is part of their part of it.
10:56
SPEAKER_04: You know they're sustaining the fishery for anglers as well.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: Conservation corner.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: Speaking of salmon, right?
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Speaking about preparing.
11:07
SPEAKER_03: Wouldn't you prepare a grass card?
11:08
SPEAKER_02: Wouldn't it be nice if you could?
11:10
SPEAKER_02: Maybe uh would it would make people a little more uh aware of them, it would make people want to go.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: I think they're a delicacy in China.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: They are.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's they are.
11:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I wonder how they prepare them.
11:21
SPEAKER_04: That's a great that's a good idea.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: I would love to try some form of carp.
11:26
SPEAKER_04: You like common carp?
11:26
SPEAKER_04: You like you always talked about eating common carp.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: I just to say we tried it, right?
11:32
SPEAKER_02: It can't be that bad.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, I remember at the carp cup, who was it?
11:36
SPEAKER_01: Goldie, I think it was, was telling us that they eat carp and it's good.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that you wouldn't be able to really tell it apart from many other fish.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be good.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're vegetarians, so it's not like they're eating any crap, right?
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, they might be eating crap.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, vegetables everything off the bottom.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: Boy, you guys won't let me get away with anything, will you?
11:57
SPEAKER_04: Nope.
11:58
SPEAKER_04: Nope.
11:59
SPEAKER_04: Uh we don't know about the grass carp.
12:02
SPEAKER_04: We're talking common carp there, but it's the grass carp that even we know less about, right?
12:06
SPEAKER_02: All kidding aside, uh, go to invasivecarp.ca, that's invasivarp.ca, and get informed about this critter called the grass carp.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: Because that's uh not a good one.
12:18
SPEAKER_04: And if you scoop one up and you kill it after you report it and you try to clean it and eat it, let us know.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: You never know.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Why not?
12:26
SPEAKER_02: If it's still alive, although I think they want the um uh the the authorities if you call authorities I say I I brought you the fish, I want a slab, I want a little fillet, I want a little steak.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Don't they uh uh uh uh Dean, maybe you would know, don't they uh tell you to keep it on ice, especially the head?
12:44
SPEAKER_02: They do, yeah.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because they want to preserve whatever's in that odo.
12:48
SPEAKER_04: Keep it on ice, is the best way to keep them on ice is eating too, you know.
12:51
SPEAKER_04: So I don't say anyway.
12:53
SPEAKER_04: Odolith, I've always loved that word odolith.
12:55
SPEAKER_04: I don't even care what it means.
12:56
SPEAKER_04: It's a good band name.
12:57
SPEAKER_04: It's a oh heavy metal band.
12:59
SPEAKER_04: Odolith.
13:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
13:00
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: There is an odolith, isn't there?
13:03
SPEAKER_02: No band?
13:04
SPEAKER_02: No.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: Sure there is.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: No.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: There will be now.
13:06
SPEAKER_04: Opeth.
13:07
SPEAKER_04: There's Opeth in the metal world.
13:10
SPEAKER_04: But uh, I don't think there's an odolith.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: In the news and uh coincidentally tying in with our special guest today, everything is coincidence.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: Dean, how does this happen?
13:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, it just happens.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Like you know, organic.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: We got we got Juice there out of the blue, uh sending us uh uh a YouTube uh request wanting to do a live show so that we could talk about the preparation of salmon.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: And now here we go.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: Lo and behold, in the randomly chosen uh news uh feature today, it also wants to deal about it.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: It came across my desk.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: How does that work?
13:46
SPEAKER_02: I can't explain it.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: It's magic.
13:48
SPEAKER_04: It's magic.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh this news uh piece is brought to you by the good folks at JMV Cycle and Marine, Ontario's largest princecraft, Mercury boat motor package dealers.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: And you don't have to necessarily go to one of their stores to make that purchase, by the way, because they are launching, uh, if it hasn't already launched by the time we talk about this, a whole new platform where you can go and buy previously enjoyed boat motor trailer rigs online.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know whether I'm supposed to tell you this or not, but I will, anyways, because you know me.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: They'll deliver it to you.
14:26
SPEAKER_04: Sweet.
14:27
SPEAKER_04: Could you not do that before?
14:28
SPEAKER_04: Buy them online?
14:29
SPEAKER_02: No, and have it delivered to you.
14:31
SPEAKER_04: Delivered, oh, that's for sure is new.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: Have it delivered to you.
14:35
SPEAKER_04: I like that in this day and age with the price of gas and all that stuff.
14:39
SPEAKER_04: It saves you that trip up and back.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, who needs to waste the time?
14:41
SPEAKER_02: You know, you you go online, you f you pick out the one that you want, you cut a deal.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there's some negotiations, there's some room there.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: You cut a deal and say, Okay, there you go.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: Here's my visa card.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: And next thing you know, somebody's driving it to your home, wherever that home is, by the way.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: Damn.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: And we asked him, we asked Rob, how the hell are you gonna do that?
15:02
SPEAKER_02: And his answer, Dean, was We'll figure that out when we get there.
15:06
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
15:07
SPEAKER_03: That's Rob Joint T.
15:09
SPEAKER_03: Hello, boy.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, that's all happening at JMB Cycle.
15:14
SPEAKER_04: Rob would even deliver it if he had to, for sure.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: I've delivered a boat from from one end of the country too.
15:21
SPEAKER_04: Yes, dug it back.
15:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
15:22
SPEAKER_04: So from Timmins.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: Why not?
15:23
SPEAKER_02: It's a pleasure delivering boats.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Think about what the you you you you are going to deliver something to somebody that will alter their life.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: Why wouldn't you want to be a part of that?
15:34
SPEAKER_02: And it's only half your trip.
15:35
SPEAKER_04: The rest is all free.
15:36
SPEAKER_04: Nothing behind you after that.
15:37
SPEAKER_04: You get back home.
15:38
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
15:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I like it.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh JBcycle.com is where you need to go.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: jbcycle.com.
15:48
SPEAKER_04: Indubitably.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: All right.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: What's in there in this new video?
15:51
SPEAKER_04: This is a big one here.
15:52
SPEAKER_04: For uh Dean Taylor's gonna tell us all about it because you and I don't know shit about this, okay?
15:56
SPEAKER_04: BC researchers have documented tenaculosis in wild chinooks and did I say that pretty good, boys?
16:03
SPEAKER_04: Not bad.
16:04
SPEAKER_04: Damn good for the first time.
16:05
SPEAKER_04: It's a bacterial disease causes ulcers on the skin and fins and can lead to death of sinook.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: Like like next, I'm gonna start.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna see these things written in crayon, I'm sure.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: The way he phonetically spells it.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: He knows we're gonna do it with a crayon.
16:20
SPEAKER_03: He's looking, he's dealing with Larry and Curly and Mo over there.
16:22
SPEAKER_03: So he knows it.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: I better spell this out for the boys with sign language and everything to them.
16:28
SPEAKER_03: He knows what he's dealing with.
16:30
SPEAKER_03: Napoleon and Oshawa boys.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: Know your audience.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Know your audience.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: Anyways.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: So what is this about then?
16:37
SPEAKER_02: We have we have some problems with uh our BC fishery in terms of disease.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's kind of related.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: I think we've talked about the farm salmon issue on the podcast.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: I know you talked about it on the radio all the time.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: But one of the concerns with that is always parasites and disease because you have these huge concentrations of salmon in these open pens, um, and it's just a good harboring place for parasites and disease.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: But up until now, which I'm kind of surprised me, they had never found a bacterial disease on a wild fish that or that originated in a farmed fish, which seems strange to me.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: You'd think that would happen all the time.
17:15
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you'd think that'd be normal.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, but this was the first case.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's it's almost it's it's definitely um fatal to the fish.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: So they sampled 99 shrinooks um caught in Barclay Sound, and 16% showed signs of the the disease.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh so that that that's high.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: This was a very recent study, so I don't think I this is obviously a small sample, um, only sampling 99.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure they're gonna be doing more work.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: And actually, uh the Pacific Salmon Foundation's involved in the research, so I'm sure that's something they have on their radar in the future as well.
17:51
SPEAKER_04: With our new with our guest coming up, what we'll do and be safe with Katrina coming up to be safe.
17:56
SPEAKER_04: We won't mention this.
17:57
SPEAKER_04: See if she's we'll butcher the hell out of the name, embarrass the hell out of herself.
18:01
SPEAKER_04: So if she mentions this, oh yeah, there's Tinesobagulosis, yeah.
18:04
SPEAKER_04: No, no, yeah.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Who's gonna who's gonna use that?
18:07
SPEAKER_02: Good point.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: We'll just avoid it and have her come up and say, by the way, there's a story.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
18:12
SPEAKER_02: If not, then we can talk about that next time.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: All right.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, uh yeah, it's an interesting article.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh is there anything in there uh that uh might uh shed some worry on us as humans consuming fish that are tainted with this particular thing?
18:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh not that I can read.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's nothing, I mean nobody would if if you there's pictures of these fish, I'm sure we can put them up on the screen.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh no one would eat these.
18:41
SPEAKER_04: They're maidens.
18:42
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
18:43
SPEAKER_04: So you're yeah.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: And they're they look pretty much pretty much dead once you bring them up.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: They have like ulcers and sores all over.
18:50
SPEAKER_04: People take dirty old salmon from here home that are spawning and they look like zombie salmon.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: Do you ever eat do you know when you catch the walleye or pike with big sores?
19:00
SPEAKER_00: Do you guys eat those?
19:01
SPEAKER_04: Because I usually usually they're the biggest ones too, so we're always throwing those back.
19:05
SPEAKER_04: But I have caught small ones.
19:07
SPEAKER_04: I think I caught a small one in the Bay of Quinny one time, and it had a couple of those sores on it.
19:11
SPEAKER_04: And I said, you know what?
19:11
SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna fillet it.
19:12
SPEAKER_04: And and uh you know what?
19:14
SPEAKER_04: I kind of cut thick on the skin, I left more meat to the skin than that.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: And there was nothing you were that hard up that you had to eat a diseased fish.
19:21
SPEAKER_04: It's a walleye bud.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't put it in and catch another one.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: Peter Bowman.
19:26
SPEAKER_04: I threw about 20 back that day.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: So I gotta keep one.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: What motivated you to keep it?
19:32
SPEAKER_04: I actually wanted to see if it was on the inside as well.
19:35
SPEAKER_04: And I couldn't see any kind of it was a skin lesion only on the outside exterior.
19:39
SPEAKER_04: You couldn't see anything on the meat.
19:40
SPEAKER_04: No, I didn't see any red marks or anything.
19:42
SPEAKER_04: It was only one or two of these things.
19:43
SPEAKER_04: I got one on the side.
19:45
unknown: Yeah.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: I eat the black spot worms.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: I hate the name thing.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: That's my line, I think.
19:50
SPEAKER_04: This gives you a crunch, right?
19:52
SPEAKER_04: It's a little bit of a granular crunch to the Chilean sea bass.
20:01
SPEAKER_03: Excuse us.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, uh wonderful article.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, it's all at fishingcanada.com brought to you by JMB Cycle Marine uh in the news.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Go check it out if you want to the story without all of the ridiculous comments going on back and forth.
20:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
20:22
SPEAKER_04: We're just trying to make fun of a light out of something that's light.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: We don't want to make fun, we want to make light.
20:27
SPEAKER_04: Lightness.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh speaking of which, uh, fan question of the week submitted by Action Jackson via YouTube.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: That's another great name.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: Action Jackson via YouTube, but it's not J A, it's J C Kykson.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: The YouTube?
20:45
SPEAKER_02: On the YouTube on the YouTube, so it's a contender.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: This is good?
20:49
SPEAKER_02: This is good.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: It's the YouTube contender.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: So uh Action wants to know if you could only keep one hard bait and one soft plastic, plus their hooks in brackets.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: In other words, plus their hooks, of course.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: In your tackle box, what would they be?
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Great question.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you you can only keep one, not multiples of each.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: And we need to he he should have put it in there, but I'm sure he meant it, and he wants to know size and color of those two baits.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, the the fact that he mentioned our two favorite forms of fishing, and that is uh a hard bait and a soft bait, because uh if you've got that in your arsenal, I think you're pretty much covered.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: I know there's spoons and I know there's well, isn't the spoon a hard bait?
21:45
SPEAKER_02: Really?
21:46
SPEAKER_02: No, I think he's talking about like a a crankbait or a body bait, like a middle bait.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think.
21:54
SPEAKER_04: No, it's not really what is it then?
21:56
SPEAKER_04: It's not a soft bait.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: This is a Yozuri we're talking about here, baby.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: This is
22:00
SPEAKER_04: Okay, there's something right there I need to find.
22:02
SPEAKER_04: I need hard bait, a definition from somebody in this world.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: I think they're just called a bladed jig, right?
22:07
SPEAKER_00: I think they're a whole category.
22:10
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
22:10
SPEAKER_04: Bladed bait, blade bait.
22:11
SPEAKER_04: Go ahead.
22:12
SPEAKER_04: There you go.
22:13
SPEAKER_04: There you go.
22:13
SPEAKER_04: It's like a spinnerbait.
22:14
SPEAKER_04: Thank you everybody for the answering that.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: What's a spinnerbait?
22:17
SPEAKER_02: A blade bait.
22:18
SPEAKER_04: Blade bait.
22:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
22:19
SPEAKER_04: There you go.
22:19
SPEAKER_04: So this is a spoon.
22:20
SPEAKER_04: What's a spoon?
22:21
SPEAKER_02: It's a blade.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: It's a spoon.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: It's probably its own category.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: Spoon.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: A spoon is a spoon.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: Done.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: So we're talking hard bait and that makes mine easier.
22:31
SPEAKER_04: My answer easier now.
22:32
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
22:33
SPEAKER_04: It would have been harder if it was other stuff in there.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to say that I I can only use one and it's for all species under all conditions.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be, right?
22:44
SPEAKER_02: So in other words, this is for survival.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: This is how you're going to sustain yourself uh for the next God knows how long before they rescue you from your wilderness uh holdout eat fish for the rest of your life, right?
23:01
SPEAKER_02: So I can only have one and one.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: So the hard bait.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: I I gotta go, although you know I love I love twitch baits, I love topwater baits.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna feed the family though.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: I I gotta go jerkbait.
23:18
SPEAKER_02: I gotta go jerkbait because it's so you can do so much with it.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: It covers so much water.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh I gotta go jerkbait.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: I'll have to go jerk bait.
23:28
SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna go further on that.
23:29
SPEAKER_04: 100% agree.
23:30
SPEAKER_04: Uh 3DB Yosuri 3DB 110 in per natural perch.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Natural perch.
23:36
SPEAKER_04: That's the one I would pick.
23:37
SPEAKER_04: I think if I had to pick one, everything eats perch.
23:40
SPEAKER_04: We've caught everything on those jerk baits.
23:42
SPEAKER_04: You can catch trout, etc., if you really had to.
23:44
SPEAKER_04: Lakers will hit that, along with obviously walleye, smallmouth, largemouth bike, muskie, whatever.
23:50
SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
23:50
SPEAKER_04: If you had to eat a muskie, unfortunately, you're in a real dire strait there.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, you gotta eat.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you gotta eat, right?
23:56
SPEAKER_02: But that a jerk bait, the natural perch pattern, yeah, that would be my survival.
24:02
SPEAKER_04: And for a soft bait, I I can't go against a five-inch pumpkin black flake senko.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna last very long, though.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: You only get one.
24:12
SPEAKER_04: Well, you can now regenerate, like, because I'm not okay.
24:18
SPEAKER_04: You get it, then you're gonna have to take that jerk bait and you're gonna have to have a uh 80-pound leader on that for your whole life because you're gonna the rest of your life you're gonna have to keep that on with a leader.
24:25
SPEAKER_04: Let's let's say the one bait that replenishes.
24:28
SPEAKER_04: If it was one bait that replenishes, Sanko, five inch, pumpkin green, black flake.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: I this is where we're gonna disagree because keep in mind, we want to be able to catch anything with this.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: This is a matter of survival.
24:44
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: And he made the comment here, he says plus hooks.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: So that means that whatever style of hook you need, you could you have that.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: We don't have to even talk about that.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: It's all in my plan here.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, it's all in my plan.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: For me, it's going to be a shad-shaped worm.
25:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh drop shot, drop shot, shad shaped worm, because I know for a fact that anything will eat it.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: Sinkle, uh about 75%.
25:14
SPEAKER_04: But see, the reason I chose a Senko for Action Jackson is because not only do I fish it as a five-inch Senko, I cut her down in half or whatever.
25:24
SPEAKER_04: I got a Ned rig I can make out of it.
25:25
SPEAKER_04: I can drop shot two inches of that.
25:28
SPEAKER_04: I can do anything with that stock.
25:30
SPEAKER_02: Give me five on that one.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: I never even thought of that.
25:33
SPEAKER_02: Never even thought of that.
25:34
SPEAKER_04: Drop shot a jig, Ned rig.
25:36
SPEAKER_04: It doesn't matter.
25:37
SPEAKER_04: It's we're Texas, you know.
25:39
SPEAKER_04: That's what I would do.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: But you're also assuming that uh action is gonna allow you to have three or four different types of hooks.
25:45
SPEAKER_04: Action and I are on the same level.
25:46
SPEAKER_04: We're we're we have a little telepathy going on right now.
25:49
SPEAKER_04: He's just a PD, you got thousands and thousands of green sancts.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: He's gonna give you the little drop shot.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: He's gonna give you everything.
25:55
SPEAKER_04: All my hooks.
25:55
SPEAKER_04: That whole tackle box is all you guys.
25:58
SPEAKER_04: Just hooks and a sanko that just keeps regenerating.
26:01
SPEAKER_04: AI, an AI sanko.
26:02
SPEAKER_04: There you go.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: So, what do we think about action?
26:05
SPEAKER_02: Is he?
26:05
SPEAKER_04: Hell yeah.
26:06
SPEAKER_04: I give him, I think.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: I think that was a great question.
26:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh uh uh Nikki, what do you think?
26:12
SPEAKER_02: Winner winner.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes, sir.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: Winner winner.
26:14
SPEAKER_04: Got our winner plug-in there, too.
26:16
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
26:17
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's a good one.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: What was this fellow's name again?
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Action Jackson.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Action Jackson, uh write in, you'll get your coupon code.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Instagram, Facebook, email, you'll get the slowest reply.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Instagram and Facebook, I'll be with you within a couple days.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Write in, prove you're you, and I'll get you your coupon code.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: This episode is brought to you by Sale.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: Sale is proudly Canadian and stocked with over a hundred Canadian brands you know and love.
26:43
SPEAKER_04: From rods and reels to sonars to kayaks and every last lure you've seen on the Fish in Canada show, Sale has all the gear to get you on the water.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: Drop into one of 12 stores across Ontario and Quebec and talk to the real fishing specialist or gear up online anytime at Sale.ca.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: Sale, the ultimate destination for your outdoor adventures.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: All right, as we sit at the top of the uh program, uh we're hoping to shed a little bit of light.
27:09
SPEAKER_02: We get uh people calling in and sending in uh requests and emails and texts about the salmon fishery out on the west coast, because it's always there's always the the sky's always falling.
27:22
SPEAKER_04: And it's justifiable because we do, as Ontarians, we talk a lot about our pike, our bass, our walleye, and even our Chinook salmon here in you know in the Great Lakes.
27:32
SPEAKER_04: So we don't really spend a whole lot of time on that.
27:34
SPEAKER_04: So it's good that we do.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: And now uh we will get a chance to get it all out.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: Joining us is uh Katrina Connors, uh Senior Director for the Pacific Salmon Foundation.
27:45
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the program, Katrina.
27:47
SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
27:48
SPEAKER_06: Nice to be here.
27:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh how's it going out west?
27:51
SPEAKER_02: Is it nice sunny days?
27:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh we're dealing with uh some rain, overcast.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: What are we dealing with out there?
27:57
SPEAKER_06: Uh a little cloudy today, but I have to say the past few weeks have just been absolutely beautiful.
28:02
SPEAKER_06: Nice.
28:03
SPEAKER_04: BC weather's always a kind of uh like we always uh strive in Ontario, say, okay, what's it doing out in BC?
28:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, okay, it's that good.
28:11
SPEAKER_04: Don't rub it in.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: So um we brought you on the program because uh you may or may not be able to answer some of the questions.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: I know for the last decade or so there's just always been this when when buddies uh say, Hey, uh, what do you think?
28:24
SPEAKER_02: Should I go out west and do some salmon fishing?
28:26
SPEAKER_02: And we look into it, and then you hear numbers are down, numbers are up.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: We've lost a bunch of fish, especially on the Fraser River and the whole Delta area.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: Um give us the state of the union, if you will, on the BC salmon health right now.
28:44
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, great question.
28:45
SPEAKER_06: And I think you kind of hit the nail on the head, you know, some are up, some are down, and it's uh always a mixed bag, so it's kind of hard to say it in in one sentence.
28:53
SPEAKER_06: Um, but I think the overall kind of headline for us is that overall all of the populations on aggregate are in long-term decline.
29:03
SPEAKER_06: Um that's kind of the headline from an annual state of salmon report that the Pacific Salmon Foundation has been doing for the past three years.
29:10
SPEAKER_06: Um, but you know, that's not to say it's all doom and gloom.
29:14
SPEAKER_06: And that's one of the things that we do try and emphasize in our report that there is some hope and there are some populations doing well.
29:21
SPEAKER_06: And maybe just to give you a sense of what that looks like.
29:24
SPEAKER_06: Um, if you kind of go from north to south in BC in the Yukon, which is where we work, in the north, you know, populations aren't doing well.
29:31
SPEAKER_06: So if you take the Yukon as an example, we've got populations of Chinook and Chum that are certainly in long-term decline and well below their long-term average.
29:41
SPEAKER_06: But as you head a bit further south, there are some bright spots, including in southern BC for Chinook and Coho, we're starting to see a bit of a resurgence of populations, um, which is really kind of the good news that we try to try and emphasize.
29:55
SPEAKER_06: So it's not that negative picture.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: When you say the south, how far south are we talking?
30:00
SPEAKER_06: Uh, well, populations around the Strait of Georgia, so eastern Vancouver Island, Lower Fraser, uh, in particular for Coho.
30:08
SPEAKER_06: So for folks that might spend time out in the water, if you're out fishing for Coho or for Chinook in southern BC, you might actually see this resurgence, you know, firsthand.
30:17
SPEAKER_06: There's a lot of fish out in the water.
30:19
SPEAKER_06: And we're definitely seeing that in the numbers when we look at the state of salmon.
30:23
SPEAKER_04: Simple question.
30:24
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
30:24
SPEAKER_04: And from a simple uh guy here who likes fishing.
30:28
SPEAKER_04: Pacific salmon, you've already mentioned two or three species.
30:31
SPEAKER_04: How many do you have in BC right now?
30:33
SPEAKER_04: At least of the fishing species.
30:34
SPEAKER_04: How many Pacific salmon are there?
30:37
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so there's five species of Pacific salmon.
30:40
SPEAKER_06: Um, and then we also cover steelhead.
30:42
SPEAKER_06: So, you know, six species altogether when we focus on communicating how salmon are doing.
30:47
SPEAKER_06: And the salmon are Chinook, Shinook, Coho, Pink, Sakai, uh, Chum, and Steelhead.
30:55
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
30:55
SPEAKER_06: Perfect.
30:56
SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: Now it says here that you led the development of the first ever online data visual visualization tool.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm assuming this is how you count uh the fish and how you report back saying, hey, we're in good health, not good health, et cetera, et cetera.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: Can you go through that uh for us a bit, please?
31:17
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
31:18
SPEAKER_06: So we actually have a couple of tools.
31:19
SPEAKER_06: And so one of our motivations was to leverage a lot of the data that's collected.
31:24
SPEAKER_06: So lots of people on the ground counting fish when they come back to spawn in the rivers.
31:29
SPEAKER_06: And so what we tried to do is pull all of that information together across, you know, more than 9,000 populations of salmon to paint a bit of a picture of how they are doing and look at that kind of over the long term.
31:41
SPEAKER_06: Um, so we have a tool called the Pacific Salmon Explorer that does that.
31:45
SPEAKER_06: It's interactive.
31:46
SPEAKER_06: You can go online at salmonexplorer.ca and you can go to any region where we have salmon returning to spawn and see how they're doing, uh, which is a really great tool for conservation and for management.
31:57
SPEAKER_06: And then more recently, we've been producing the state of SAM report.
32:01
SPEAKER_06: So it's a much coarser scale.
32:03
SPEAKER_06: And what we do is we look at those six species we just talked about and try and get a sense of, you know, for example, power chinook doing across all of BC in the Yukon and kind of report back on those trends so people get a sense of which species are doing well, where those populations and species are doing well, and maybe where they're not.
32:21
SPEAKER_04: Are you working with anglers in this?
32:23
SPEAKER_04: Is it all scientific or is there anglers' input too as well?
32:27
SPEAKER_06: Uh, there isn't into the actual assessments, but in some of the background information that forms part of that picture, anglers definitely have a role.
32:35
SPEAKER_06: So I think you've spoken with colleagues in the past where anglers are out there on the water and collaborating on some neat projects in terms of understanding where fish are, when they're there, even collecting, you know, important information on their diets and what they eat.
32:48
SPEAKER_06: So it's part of the picture, um, but more kind of that supplemental information as we understand what's affecting salmon versus how are they doing right now.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: Cool.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: And and uh aside from uh, you know, uh fish-crazed anglers that want to go out and fish salmon, aside from that, which is very important.
33:07
SPEAKER_04: I don't want to downplay Hell yeah, they fight good and they taste good.
33:09
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
33:10
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
33:11
SPEAKER_02: Um the importance of the Pacific salmon uh goes far beyond uh the anglers' needs.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you could just uh talk to us about that a bit.
33:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, absolutely.
33:22
SPEAKER_06: I mean, we often talk about salmon as being a keystone species.
33:26
SPEAKER_06: So from an ecological perspective, you know, they provide food from you know bears and eagles, wolves, insects, everything in between.
33:34
SPEAKER_06: So from that perspective, you know, they're central to our ecosystems here on the coast.
33:39
SPEAKER_06: Um, they're also important to communities and cultures.
33:41
SPEAKER_06: You talk about angling, you know, most people you meet in coastal BC, anyways, have spent time in the water.
33:48
SPEAKER_06: So this is part of our you know culture and identity for British Columbians and people in the Yukon.
33:53
SPEAKER_06: Um, we've actually done polls recently and we found that more than 80% of British Columbians are concerned and worried about the long-term decline of salmon as one of the top threats.
34:04
SPEAKER_06: So this really resonates with Canadians, I would say, but certainly folks in British Columbia and the Yukon.
34:09
SPEAKER_06: And then they're important to economies, you know, recreational fishing in particular is really an important kind of economic backbone for British Columbia.
34:19
SPEAKER_06: Um, and then finally, I would also say, you know, there's obviously been a very long-standing relationship with First Nations peoples over 10,000 years in British Columbia and across Canada.
34:29
SPEAKER_06: And to this day, you know, salmon really drive kind of cultural and economic well-being for those indigenous communities.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be one of the hardest things.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: I I've been following this for better part of 50 years.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: And like I said, each each year we seem to hear a different story, some good, some bad, about the health of uh of this fishery.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: I've always thought if there's ever going to be a difficult fishery to try and report on, it's gotta be the Pacific salmon for the simple reason that they don't stay put.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, you can you can do all you know, if if you're dealing with the lower Fraser, you can do all the data collection you want, but unfortunately, that critter takes off at a certain point in its life and it it goes someplace.
35:20
SPEAKER_04: Like how do you and and they do it at different timing, too?
35:23
SPEAKER_04: Like the pinks come in at the couple of years and then they're not here, and then it's like yeah, there's it's crazy.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: That's got to be insanely difficult to it to not only to collect the data, but to make sense of it when you've got so much migration of the of these fish.
35:39
SPEAKER_02: You don't know if they're lost, for example.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: If you have a population of sake that doesn't show up this year, you can't say they're gone.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: You just don't know where they are right now.
35:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, that's kind of one of the vexing things about salmon.
35:54
SPEAKER_06: You know, the North Pacific, like you said, you don't know where they are.
35:57
SPEAKER_06: It's extremely difficult to track them.
35:59
SPEAKER_06: You have no idea what's encountering them, whether it's warm water.
36:03
SPEAKER_06: You know, we've heard about the blob, perhaps that's something you've spoken about in the past that they encounter, but you really just don't know what those conditions are or what survival is going to be, which makes it really challenging to forecast and say, okay, we can predictly open up fisheries, you know, in the freezer.
36:19
SPEAKER_06: We're getting um, you know, not so good at doing that because we don't have information.
36:24
SPEAKER_06: We're relying on less information too.
36:26
SPEAKER_06: So we are still downscaling the amount of you know time and energy we're investing in that.
36:32
SPEAKER_06: So it is a really difficult thing to do for sure.
36:35
SPEAKER_04: How much how much tracking do you do, if any?
36:38
SPEAKER_04: Or yeah, on the ocean itself.
36:41
SPEAKER_04: I mean, the rivers is obviously the obvious place.
36:44
SPEAKER_04: Do you know, do you do any on the ocean?
36:46
SPEAKER_04: Do you do electronic tagging or anything like that?
36:49
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we do try and do some tagging.
36:51
SPEAKER_06: So when they start off, you know, in freshwater environments, where we have an opportunity to tag those fish or when they're caught in ocean environments, we will tag them.
36:59
SPEAKER_06: Um, and then that gives us an opportunity to see kind of when those fish come back, where they spend time.
37:05
SPEAKER_06: Um, so this is really an important part of what our organization has been doing.
37:10
SPEAKER_06: So we have this project called the Bottlenecks Project, and it's essentially that tagging fish, trying to understand how many of those tagged come back.
37:17
SPEAKER_06: So it gives you a sense of survival, how many fish that go out actually come back and make it back to spawn, and also the timing.
37:25
SPEAKER_06: So there is that information that we are collecting, but you know, you kind of hit the nail on the head when you talked about where they go and how many there are.
37:33
SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's really kind of a small fraction of populations that we can do that.
37:37
SPEAKER_06: So we're just kind of putting the pieces of the puzzle together, but getting that big picture kind of constant feed of information is still kind of one of the biggest challenges.
37:45
SPEAKER_04: Do you do you have a record of, and just as just off the cuff here, of the furthest do you've ever seen salmon travel?
37:54
SPEAKER_06: That's a good question.
37:56
SPEAKER_06: Um, I mean, I personally haven't, but if you look at the entire range of Pacific salmon, I mean the North Pacific, we know they go far, like almost as far as Japan.
38:05
SPEAKER_06: And so different species kind of vary in terms of their migration pathway.
38:10
SPEAKER_06: And that just opens up a whole level of complexity when you start thinking about international fisheries.
38:16
SPEAKER_06: You know, we think we don't have great information for fisheries here in Canada.
38:20
SPEAKER_06: Well, if you expand that to fisheries in Russia and Japan and Alaska and other places, there are so many unknowns, which again challenges our ability to predict how many fish are coming back.
38:30
SPEAKER_06: If you don't know how many are being caught, it's really hard to do that math very accurately.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: And we're also making uh we do, as anglers, we make assumptions that most of the problem is human-based.
38:43
SPEAKER_02: In other words, somebody is overfishing or somebody is it there's always a that human element involved.
38:50
SPEAKER_02: But I wonder how many studies are going on out there to track things like predation.
38:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, do we do we even go down that slippery slope?
39:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, is there is there a point where you know orca whales are at the peak of their cycle and it coincides with the peak of the salmon cycle?
39:09
SPEAKER_02: And are they taking more fish?
39:12
SPEAKER_02: Like eagles.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: Does that go on?
39:14
SPEAKER_02: Is that is that part of the great question?
39:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
39:18
SPEAKER_06: So this actually goes back to a project I was talking about, our bottlenecks project.
39:21
SPEAKER_06: And that was one of the key pieces.
39:23
SPEAKER_06: You know, how many are surviving or dying?
39:25
SPEAKER_06: You know, where and when.
39:27
SPEAKER_06: And so one of the things that we did find out through that project uh is that there's a lot of predation actually happening related to log booms.
39:34
SPEAKER_06: So here in coastal BC, we have, you know, a large forestry industry.
39:39
SPEAKER_06: Often they're storing those logs in estuaries and near shore environments, which become a hall out for seals and sea lions that otherwise wouldn't be there.
39:47
SPEAKER_06: So these are kind of man-made infrastructure that make it really easy for seals and sea lions to predate on out migrating or returning salmon.
39:56
SPEAKER_06: So it's you know, informed what we do as an organization in terms of advocating for policies to remove some of these log boom storages from estuaries that contribute to heightened predation of fish.
40:09
SPEAKER_06: Um, so we do try and study that for sure.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh we here in the East, one of the things that used to crop up all the time, um, and I'm sure with some validity, uh maybe not as much as we thought, but the open pen uh, you know, rearing of uh salmon for the market was causing a problem with the wild salmon and all that stuff.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: Is is is that kind of a factor still?
40:38
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I would say it is.
40:39
SPEAKER_06: I mean, we know that open net pens for agriculture and farming salmon do contribute to disease and pathogens and wild salmon.
40:47
SPEAKER_06: You know, the science is very clear, including science that the Pacific Salmon Foundation has collaborated on.
40:53
SPEAKER_06: Uh, there is a policy shift with our federal government that has committed to getting open net pens out of British Columbia and along key migratory corridors for salmon.
41:03
SPEAKER_06: Uh, the deadline for that is coming up in a few years in 2029.
41:07
SPEAKER_06: So as long as we act and uphold that commitment federally, we do have a pretty significant opportunity to minimize the risks that have been there for you know decades as it relates to aquaculture.
41:19
SPEAKER_04: Wow, it'd be nice to see that happening.
41:21
SPEAKER_04: Speaking of which of race, I was just talking to a buddy this morning.
41:25
SPEAKER_04: They just got back two days ago from BC to Ontario.
41:28
SPEAKER_04: He said one of the guys caught two salmon, two co two coho, one of which he could bring home.
41:35
SPEAKER_04: He said it was a hatchery-raised coho.
41:37
SPEAKER_04: Are you guys uh is BC still raising uh salmon and releasing them like that for you know for sport fishing?
41:44
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, we definitely have hatcheries.
41:47
SPEAKER_06: You know, we are tending to kind of go away from producing fish and hatcheries just for fishing and more trying to focus on hatcheries for conservation.
41:56
SPEAKER_06: Um, but that being said, you know, a number of Chinook and Coho populations are hatchery enhanced.
42:02
SPEAKER_06: And right now, I mentioned Fraser Coho kind of recovering.
42:05
SPEAKER_06: So just a bit of a picture, you know, 30 years ago, Fraser Coho essentially crashed.
42:10
SPEAKER_06: There's actually a fishing moratorium that was put in place.
42:13
SPEAKER_06: The federal government closed all directed fisheries.
42:16
SPEAKER_06: And for the past 30 years, we've been trying to rebuild populations.
42:19
SPEAKER_06: And what we've been seeing the past few years is that they're actually resurgent, which is why you're kind of encountering coho kind of everywhere when you get out on the water.
42:28
SPEAKER_06: Um, but right now we still have policies that say we're only going to allow anglers to keep kind of the hatchery fish, the march fish.
42:37
SPEAKER_06: So when you encounter wild coho, when you're out fishing, you do have to release them.
42:41
SPEAKER_06: Um so it's kind of a mixed egg, but I do yeah, it is good.
42:45
SPEAKER_06: And I will say I fish, you know, personally, and I'm also observing that you're catching a lot of wild coho, which is a really great sign um as you look towards kind of survival and recovery of these wild coho.
42:58
SPEAKER_06: So it is it's an exciting time.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Just out of curiosity, how are they marking the um wild, or not marking the wild coho, obviously, but the hatchery fish?
43:08
SPEAKER_02: How are they how do you think that's the adipose fin, right?
43:10
SPEAKER_04: Adipose fin?
43:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
43:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
43:13
SPEAKER_04: Look at you.
43:14
SPEAKER_06: Not all of them, but most of them.
43:16
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
43:16
SPEAKER_06: So when they release them from the hatcheries, they do kind of clip or remove the adipose um fin.
43:21
SPEAKER_06: And so that's supposed to be kind of a visual mark that helps you identify if it's a hatchery fish.
43:26
SPEAKER_06: One of the challenges, however, is that they don't do that for all hatchery fish.
43:30
SPEAKER_06: So if you're the average angler and you go out and you catch a fish, and if it's not clipped or marked, you don't really know if this is a wild coho, for example, or a hatchery coho.
43:41
SPEAKER_06: So it's very difficult to have regulations that are based on you can keep hatchery fish, but you know, have to release wild fish if not all of them are marked.
43:50
SPEAKER_06: So this is one of the complexities we're dealing with.
43:53
SPEAKER_06: Right.
43:53
SPEAKER_06: I will say for our federal government, um, we have I don't work for the federal government, the federal government has.
44:00
SPEAKER_06: Committed to marking up to 90% of all hatchery chinook that come out to try and mitigate some of these issues moving forward.
44:09
SPEAKER_04: But what would what would be the problem with that?
44:10
SPEAKER_04: Wouldn't it be better for the fishery overall at least to be more released?
44:13
SPEAKER_04: You'd be releasing all your wild fish plus some hatchery fish that weren't marked.
44:18
SPEAKER_04: Isn't that wouldn't that be the ultimate uh output of this?
44:22
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, down the road when they're all marked, I think there's there's some that are pushing for having what we call marked selective fishery.
44:28
SPEAKER_06: So you only keep the hatchery fish.
44:30
SPEAKER_06: Um but in the interim, until we get to 100% mass marking, where you have all hatchery fish that are marked, you really don't know what you're releasing and what you're keeping.
44:40
SPEAKER_06: And so now, kind of anecdotally, if you talk to people who are on the water, one of the challenges they're encountering is they might encounter 10 wild fish that they have to release just to keep one marked fish.
44:51
SPEAKER_06: And there are challenges with the survival of release fish.
44:54
SPEAKER_06: You know, some can die, some, you know, if you practice good techniques, uh survival can be quite high.
45:01
SPEAKER_06: Um, so we're kind of in this in-between space where it's a bit awkward in terms of matching the regulations to some of the recovery for COHO in this example that we're seeing.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: How's the uh Chinook doing?
45:13
SPEAKER_06: Uh Chinook and the Fraser are doing well.
45:16
SPEAKER_06: I mean, some of the populations in the upper Fraser are still kind of below their long-term average.
45:21
SPEAKER_06: Um, but in the lower Fraser, we've got a few populations like on the Harrison, uh, South Thompson that are doing quite well.
45:29
SPEAKER_06: Um, so you know, it's starting to look upwards in terms of a long-term trend, and that's encouraging uh for many kind of populations.
45:37
SPEAKER_06: And then on the east coast of Ankh Riland's another place where we've seen strong returns of Chinook populations, which is great.
45:44
SPEAKER_04: Which which species is doing the best?
45:46
SPEAKER_04: Is there one that's doing better than all the rest?
45:49
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, that's the tricky thing about salmon.
45:52
SPEAKER_06: I mean, the probably not.
45:53
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I guess I would say if you had to kind of pin it down, pink salmon, when it comes to absolute numbers, you know, their numbers have been building over time.
46:02
SPEAKER_06: So these fish have a very short two-year life cycle.
46:05
SPEAKER_06: And so you tend to see kind of rebounds happening, you know, much more quickly than you do for longer-lived species like Chinook that can live as long as seven years.
46:14
SPEAKER_06: So pink salmon seem to be doing well kind of across the coast.
46:18
SPEAKER_06: And last year in the Fraser, we had over 13 million, I believe, pink salmon return.
46:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
46:23
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, nice.
46:24
SPEAKER_02: We had uh the privilege a few years back to uh float the uh the Campbell River and and photograph uh the pink run that was in the river at the time.
46:37
SPEAKER_02: And I gotta tell you, it was breathtaking.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: It was insane, absolutely breathtaking, amazing, just an incredible uh moment, certainly in our careers, to be completely surrounded by walls and walls of the salmon.
46:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh it was great.
46:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the black bear that we encountered was kind of interesting.
46:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, walls of he put us against the wall.
46:59
SPEAKER_04: That guy came up there.
47:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: So what can we what's the future look like?
47:08
SPEAKER_02: So we've we've got you in place.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: So the foundation is there to make sure that the research uh is ongoing and we keep the data and compare notes from year to year.
47:20
SPEAKER_02: Based on what you have in hand right now, give us uh, you know, look into the crystal ball for us, if you will.
47:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh, where where is the salmon fishery from the West Coast headed?
47:34
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, it's a tough question.
47:35
SPEAKER_06: I think it's gonna be more predictable and more variable.
47:40
SPEAKER_06: You know, I think it's really unknown how climate change is gonna continue to impact salmon.
47:45
SPEAKER_06: And I think some populations are going to do well under climate change and some are not.
47:51
SPEAKER_06: So if you had to look ahead, I there's some predictions that kind of more southern populations, like around, you know, Vancouver and the lower mainland, perhaps aren't going to fare as well as climate change, you know, gets worse.
48:04
SPEAKER_06: Um, and potentially distribution of salmon moves north.
48:08
SPEAKER_06: So I think more variability, more difficult like ability for us to be able to predict fisheries.
48:15
SPEAKER_06: So we did see that a little bit this year with Fraser Sockeye.
48:18
SPEAKER_06: So our pre-season forecast was about 7 million fish, and then about halfway through the season, it was reduced the forecast by about 60% down to about 3 million.
48:28
SPEAKER_06: And this is just an example of that variability and our efforts and ability to predict, you know, and this is supposed to be our dominant year.
48:36
SPEAKER_06: So every four years, we get one dominant run, the Adams River Sakai run, that really, you know, can be huge.
48:43
SPEAKER_06: And some years, you know, not too long ago, was up to 28 million fish returning for this one run.
48:49
SPEAKER_06: Um, but you know, this year they're down to 3 million, so a pretty significant drop.
48:54
SPEAKER_06: So I think we'll see a lot more of that variability.
48:58
SPEAKER_06: Um, but on the flip side, you know, we are seeing that recovery efforts can pay off.
49:02
SPEAKER_06: So I've talked a lot about Fraser Coho or Coho in Southern BC.
49:06
SPEAKER_06: You know, some of the things that we did to recover them are starting to pay off.
49:10
SPEAKER_06: And so I think we can see opportunities, but we need to focus and dedicate our efforts to recovery.
49:16
SPEAKER_02: Are you working in in conjunction with uh US authorities on this as well?
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Or are you kind of doing your own thing here and they're doing their own thing south of the border?
49:27
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, PSF, um, where I work, we do tend to collaborate less with the kind of you know state governments and authorities in the US, but more with other NGOs that work on similar issues.
49:39
SPEAKER_06: So some of our projects that we've had in the past have been working with Long Live the King, so an organization uh based in the US, and we've collaborated over kind of a transboundary project.
49:49
SPEAKER_06: So looking at our shared Zalish C and trying to kind of jointly understand what are the factors affecting the survival of Chinook and Coho.
49:57
SPEAKER_06: That was actually a 10-year program that ran significant investment by both NGOs and others.
50:03
SPEAKER_06: And so we definitely have those collaborations and recognize it's a key part of things.
50:08
SPEAKER_06: And you know, we set the boundaries for salmon.
50:10
SPEAKER_06: This is Canada, this is US, but Pacific Salmon don't care.
50:13
SPEAKER_06: They don't recognize it.
50:14
SPEAKER_02: So how far just for my own personal uh curiosity, how far south do they range?
50:21
SPEAKER_02: Say, say a let's take you know Chinook.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: How far south can can they actually, what's their range look like south of the border?
50:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so they go all the way as far south as California.
50:34
SPEAKER_06: Um, you know, interestingly enough, back in the day, Los Angeles area, you think about a huge metropolis had populations of salmon.
50:41
SPEAKER_06: And, you know, some of the biggest populations historically were in like uh the Columbia River and California and Oregon.
50:50
SPEAKER_06: Uh, but that's not the case anymore.
50:52
SPEAKER_06: But their range is huge.
50:54
SPEAKER_06: And maybe I'll just put in a plug.
50:56
SPEAKER_06: Uh, just last week, there was an IMAX film done exclusively on Pacific salmon.
51:01
SPEAKER_06: So the first time ever 3D film that's been produced that covers the entire range of Pacific salmon, going from California all the way up through kind of Oregon, Washington, BC, Yukon, Alaska, Russia, down through Japan, and then tracks kind of the story of salmon across their life cycle.
51:20
SPEAKER_06: Uh, there's a very brief feature about our organization in there.
51:24
SPEAKER_06: So if you're interested about the range and you really kind of want to get a sense of the scope and scale, it's just a phenomenal film called Running Wild that's in the theaters now.
51:33
SPEAKER_02: Running wild.
51:34
SPEAKER_02: Running wild.
51:34
SPEAKER_02: I'll have to check that out because I'm fascinated by that.
51:36
SPEAKER_02: I've always thought, I mean, for the most part, growing up in this industry, I've always envisioned and and probably through facts, that the Fraser River salmon populations when they're coming out of the freshwater into salt water, they make a hard right and they head straight north and off to Alaska and Russia and all that.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: But I always wondered, are there any that turn left and go south?
52:07
SPEAKER_02: You know, is that is that even a viable thought?
52:10
SPEAKER_02: Can these can they all sort of spawn in that one central because I believe the Fraser is probably the largest uh spawning area for Pacific salmon on the West Coast?
52:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, for in Canada it is certainly.
52:24
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
52:25
SPEAKER_02: So is it possible that some of those fish that spawn or have you know were born in the Fraser actually go south?
52:33
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I I think it's certainly possible.
52:35
SPEAKER_06: The general trajectory is they tend to head north, but kind of to the point you made earlier, you know, we're not tracking every single fish.
52:41
SPEAKER_06: We know a lot less than we do know.
52:44
SPEAKER_06: So it is possible, and really what they're doing is their whole motivation is to feed, get bigger, and survive.
52:50
SPEAKER_06: So that's all the food.
52:51
SPEAKER_06: And that food kind of tends to be in more northern areas, an area of the North Pacific where they tend to feed as you know, juveniles and then adults before they come back to spawn.
53:01
SPEAKER_06: So for the most part, they head north, but I would not be surprised if some populations, you know, head south, but less in the minority.
53:10
SPEAKER_02: Uh you may or may not be able to answer this, and and if you don't, I that's fine.
53:14
SPEAKER_02: How sympathetic is the commercial fishing industry to organizations like yourself that's trying to count the inventory, even you know, the we're counting the inventory, not just to count it.
53:28
SPEAKER_02: We were counting it so that we can sustain this fishery and in turn keep that industry, the commercial fishing industry afloat, so to speak.
53:38
SPEAKER_02: How sympathetic are they uh or friendly to your cause, are they?
53:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I would say very.
53:45
SPEAKER_06: I mean, maybe just a comment that the commercial fisheries that we used to have in BC are really kind of only a shell of what they were, you know, 20, 30 years ago.
53:54
SPEAKER_06: We've really scaled back commercial fisheries just because we have so many fewer fish returning.
54:00
SPEAKER_06: Um, but those fisheries that do operate, commercial, recreational, any fisheries, really, I would say are sympathetic to the cause.
54:07
SPEAKER_06: I mean, they want the same things.
54:09
SPEAKER_06: They want sustainable fisheries.
54:10
SPEAKER_06: As you said, with no fish coming back and no efforts, you know, put towards conserving those populations that are at risk, nobody gets to fish and nobody wants that.
54:20
SPEAKER_06: And, you know, we find with even anglers or commercial fishermen, I mean, these are the people that spend their lives on the water.
54:26
SPEAKER_06: They know these fish better than anyone else, probably more than someone like myself.
54:32
SPEAKER_06: And so at the end of the day, they want these fish to come back.
54:34
SPEAKER_06: So there's alignment there and a shared objective for sure.
54:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh when we first started fishing uh the Pacific salmon, I remember just about every bay we'd turn into, there was a commercial trawler out there doing its thing, right?
54:49
SPEAKER_02: You couldn't get away from them, they were everywhere.
54:51
SPEAKER_04: Everywhere.
54:52
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
54:53
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, that's changed drastically over the years.
54:56
SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure it's going to adjust uh even more as we go on.
54:59
SPEAKER_02: What's your long-term um So right now you're collecting data?
55:08
SPEAKER_02: Is there is there a phase two to what you're doing?
55:11
SPEAKER_02: Is there something that we can sort of look at and say, hey, in five years, here's what we can uh expect to get out of this uh out of this group?
55:20
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, one, there's kind of a couple things.
55:23
SPEAKER_06: So we're collecting data, but we need to do a whole lot more.
55:27
SPEAKER_06: So we've recently, you know, done some work to say how much information are we collecting?
55:32
SPEAKER_06: What are the gaps in information?
55:34
SPEAKER_06: And you know, almost 80% of all populations uh of salmon in the NBC and the Yukon don't have any data to say how they're doing.
55:43
SPEAKER_06: So our first intent is to work collaboratively to understand what are those gaps, how are we going to fill them, and then use that information to better give us a sense of how salmon are doing so we can ideally intervene where we need to to recover populations.
55:57
SPEAKER_06: So we hope to fill out that picture.
55:59
SPEAKER_06: We're leaning into some neat things like using artificial intelligence to help support salmon monitoring.
56:04
SPEAKER_06: That's kind of a neat initiative that we're part of.
56:07
SPEAKER_06: And then the other part is we're trying to focus and convene people around salmon recovery.
56:12
SPEAKER_06: So many people are passionate about it.
56:14
SPEAKER_06: Sometimes groups don't work together.
56:16
SPEAKER_06: And so, can we bring people together over a shared plan?
56:19
SPEAKER_06: Say, this is what we need to do.
56:21
SPEAKER_06: This is where directing our resources towards, are going to give us the most bang for our buck, and then work towards implementing that plan.
56:28
SPEAKER_06: So that's kind of a second major focus that ideally together we get a sense of, you know, what are the risks to salmon by filling in that picture?
56:35
SPEAKER_06: And then how are we going to mitigate some of the threats through strategic recovery plans?
56:40
SPEAKER_02: What can we do as anglers?
56:42
SPEAKER_02: Is there is there something that uh that this user group can do to help maintain what we love to do, and that is fish for salmon?
56:52
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I would say there's there's a few things.
56:55
SPEAKER_06: Um so there's been quite a bit of research that's come out in recent years that really try and promote kind of better handling practices to increase survival of fish that are released.
57:04
SPEAKER_06: So some of those things, for example, are not netting a fish.
57:08
SPEAKER_06: You know, if you we talked about releasing some of the wild fish, if people can use a gaff, for example, to release fish at the side of the boat instead of bringing them on shore where or on the boat, sorry, where they release scales.
57:21
SPEAKER_02: Explain that for just a moment because as soon as you mention the word gaff, I'm sure everybody out there saying, gaff, what are you talking about?
57:27
SPEAKER_02: You can't release them and then throw them back.
57:30
SPEAKER_02: What do you mean?
57:31
SPEAKER_02: Explain yourself.
57:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
57:33
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
57:33
SPEAKER_06: So if you just have like a regular kind of single barbless hook, if you have a gaff, instead of putting the fish in the boat using a net, you kind of take the gaff and you run it down the shank of the hook and you quickly kind of engage it and it can pop the hook out of the mouth of the fish.
57:50
SPEAKER_06: So they don't have to come out of the water.
57:52
SPEAKER_06: There's no scale loss by, you know, flapping around on the boat.
57:57
SPEAKER_06: And then all of a sudden they're less susceptible to disease after being released or predation.
58:02
SPEAKER_06: Um, and so that's one of the simple things we can do.
58:05
SPEAKER_06: You know, there's other things, you know, for example, you know, not using treble hooks and just using a single hook.
58:11
SPEAKER_06: Um, there's lots of things that anglers are within control of doing to try and increase the survival of fish that are caught, but ultimate release.
58:19
SPEAKER_06: So that's one simple thing.
58:20
SPEAKER_06: I think once you get the hang of releasing with a ghast.
58:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you shocked me with it.
58:25
SPEAKER_04: I've seen it on online, and they're so the the guides are so good at it, they just and they're gone.
58:29
SPEAKER_04: Wow, one shot.
58:30
SPEAKER_04: They take out the line and they pop it.
58:32
SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's great.
58:33
SPEAKER_02: It's so efficient.
58:34
SPEAKER_02: Are you um you mentioned treble hooks and signal hooks, etc.?
58:37
SPEAKER_02: Are uh is it still a barbed uh fishing uh hook industry or is it all barbless?
58:43
SPEAKER_06: No, all barbless, and it has been for quite some time.
58:46
SPEAKER_02: Okay, perfect.
58:46
SPEAKER_02: That's a good start, obviously.
58:48
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you're right.
58:48
SPEAKER_02: If we can get rid of uh treble hooks, that's that much better for sure.
58:53
SPEAKER_02: Um the problem is though, the problem with my people is that we like to get those hero shots so we can send them back home and say, hey, look at me.
59:05
SPEAKER_02: How do we how do we how do we change that mindset?
59:09
SPEAKER_02: How do we get over that?
59:10
SPEAKER_02: Because that's a big deal, especially salmon fishing.
59:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's a huge deal.
59:15
SPEAKER_02: There's gotta be something that we can come up with that gets us out of that mode, you know?
59:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great point.
59:23
SPEAKER_06: And, you know, we also recognize that's where we need to go.
59:26
SPEAKER_06: And I think you you mentioned mindset, and I think it's shifting that mindset.
59:29
SPEAKER_06: So, what is that hero shot?
59:31
SPEAKER_06: Maybe the hero shot is releasing the fish and like, you know, the pride that comes with having a fish live to see another day, you know, and then save the hero shot for that, you know, two chinook that you can keep in your boat at the end of the day and really kind of celebrate that.
59:46
SPEAKER_06: And I think, you know, part of the messaging is the education around it.
59:50
SPEAKER_06: Like if we're taking every fish out of the water for the hero shot, but it means that, you know, 10, 20% of them are dying, and it means that we'll have less to fish 10 years from now, you know, it doesn't help anyone.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_06: So I think just, you know, helping people understand to make this sustainable, we have to increase survival, you know, focus on the fish that we can keep to get that shot, um, but not about every fish that comes out of the water needs to be held up and you know, posted on social media.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_02: Social media has a lot to do with it, obviously.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, it was bad enough pre-social media days to get that picture, but now it seems like everybody has to have pictures of every fish that they hook.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's gotta be something down the road that we can we can make that change, that transition.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_02: Just go out and enjoy it.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_02: Just go out and and do it for the purposes that you intended on, and that was for yourself.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_02: Enjoy it yourself.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_06: Absolutely, and yeah, I agree.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_06: And I think there is so much that we can do to kind of change the culture around that.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_06: I would say that a lot of the lodges that we have here in BC and Fataguay, kind of northern parts of BC, are really leading the charge.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_06: You know, I used to work as a fishing guy in Fatagua, and our guests would want to get a Tai, so fish over 30 pounds, and that's all we would focus on.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_06: And at that point, it wasn't even a question, do you keep it or not?
1:01:10
SPEAKER_06: We would kill every 30 pounder plus.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_06: And now it's a whole cultural mentality around actually, let's let the 30 pounders plus really be released so they can survive and create the next generation of large fish.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_06: Because if you take all the large fish out of the population, you're not gonna get large fish back, and that's ultimately what people care about.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_06: So it is happening, and there's so much more we can do to kind of transmit that thinking and that culture just to the everyday angler.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_04: We're seeing that here.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_04: We just came from a couple of lodges, our Ontario, Northern Ontario lodges, that used to be the our Taies up there were our 10-pound walleye and our 20-pound pike and all that stuff.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_04: But especially the walleye, and and you know, they were keeping them, they're keeping them now.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_04: All of a sudden these lodges are saying, hey, we have almost ruined this fishery.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_04: We gotta stop this.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_04: And they're you know, they're they're saying you can't take any home.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_04: You can shore launch here, but you can't take any home.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_04: It's it's starting to happen more and more, but unfortunately, it's because of a bad lesson, right?
1:02:08
SPEAKER_04: It's but it is going on.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_02: Where we were is a great example of that, right?
1:02:12
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: It uh it was almost annihilated, and and now here we are uh five or six years after it's not that bad.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_02: It's just it's turning into a great fishery all over again.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_04: Another five years will be crazy good, you know.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_02: So out of curiosity, is there any data that you collect?
1:02:31
SPEAKER_02: Um you mentioned something earlier on about the mortality rate of catch and release fishing on on salmon.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_02: Is there any data that you're collecting that can help us determine what that success rate is on uh releasing salmon?
1:02:47
SPEAKER_02: Like the telemetry coming back to you from um you know areas with a lot of lodge pressure.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_02: Is it telling you that live release is okay?
1:02:59
SPEAKER_02: Is working well, it's 5%, 10%?
1:03:01
SPEAKER_02: Do you have anything at all in that area?
1:03:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, there's been others at the University of British Columbia and other institutions that have led a lot of that research.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_06: And, you know, they've done studies where they've kind of held fish that would otherwise be released in tanks to understand, you know, how long after mortality might occur, what rate, and all of that.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_06: So they are finding, you know, it's around 10 to 20 percent.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_06: And so we kind of use that as our baseline estimate.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_06: I think that there can be more to be done to better understand how many fish that are released actually survived, but it's an inherently challenging thing to measure.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_06: And so at some point, you know, rather than getting hung up on how many, what are the practices, as we were talking about before, that we can put in place that we know are gonna meaningfully reduce that mortality.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_06: And that might be a better kind of use of effort through education and awareness than trying to put a fine number on it.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_06: Because often what we see in our world is people argue in the community, is it 8%?
1:03:58
SPEAKER_06: Is it 10%?
1:03:59
SPEAKER_06: Is it 20?
1:04:00
SPEAKER_06: We're actually never gonna know.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_06: You're not gonna know if a seal is following a fish that's been released is gonna scoop it up.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_06: Um, so how much do you have to gain from putting a fine number on that?
1:04:10
SPEAKER_06: It's good to have a sense, which I think we do, but trying to put a finer point on it has diminishing returns, in my opinion.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_04: Is there a salmon that would be, let's say a Chinook salmon, would its sense uh would its ability to survive better through physics or whatever be better in the ocean, catch and release in the ocean or in a river?
1:04:30
SPEAKER_04: Is there any difference to that?
1:04:31
SPEAKER_04: Or is this are they stronger when they get in that river, even though they're gonna spawn and maybe die or whatever?
1:04:35
SPEAKER_04: But you know what I'm saying?
1:04:36
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's a great question.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_06: I mean, based on what I know about salmon physiology, I would say their likelihood for survival would increase in marine environments.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_06: And partly is because once they enter the freshwater, they're not feeding anymore.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_06: So all of their energy reserves go towards you know spawning.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_06: And so their ability to withstand stress in freshwater environments is much lower than in the marine environment where they're still actively feeding, growing, and evolving.
1:05:04
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_06: That makes sense.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_02: This has got to be a very expensive undertaking, what you folks are doing in terms of you know collecting data.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure I'm sure there's a lot of tagging involved, a lot of manpower involved.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, is there opportunities for concerned anglers and sports people uh to get involved?
1:05:26
SPEAKER_02: Maybe even financially, is there a you know a way of donating?
1:05:30
SPEAKER_02: Can you talk to us about that?
1:05:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, absolutely.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I will say that anglers have been kind of part of the origin story of the Pacific Salmon Foundation and have always been like a significant donor base for PSF.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_06: And so we are a not for profit organization and certainly welcome and encourage folks to donate.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_06: You know, we give most of that money back out to communities that work on behalf of salmon.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_06: It helps fund the science.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_06: So absolutely, like we encourage people to donate.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_06: And partly the gap we're trying to fill is that, as I said before, there's too many populations for us to be monitoring and countering as one entity, like the federal government.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_06: So there is a significant role for NGOs like the Pacific Salmon Foundation to play.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_06: And without those donations, it's really hard to kind of meet that test of filling the gaps that allow us all to keep fishing for salmon or to get out in the water to enjoy them.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_02: And I'm assuming uh if somebody just looks up the uh PSF, they'll be able to be directed to those areas where they can contribute.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you bet.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_06: It's PSF.ca on our website.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_06: We've got a donate now button.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_06: We we definitely would be happy to hear from folks.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_06: And you know, if you can't contribute funding, you can also volunteer.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_06: So that's another way that we kind of engage with our base is volunteering for a stewardship organization or getting on the water.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_06: So we have a program that we run with the federal government called Avid Anglers.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_06: And those anglers are dedicated to collecting information when they're out fishing, whether it's taking scale samples so we can identify which population they're from, they're all helping to collect information and being the eyes and ears on the water.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_06: So if you're interested in being part of that, encourage you to get in touch with us and we'd be happy to connect you.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_02: That's great.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_02: You said earlier you used to fish.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_02: Do you not angle anymore?
1:07:17
SPEAKER_06: I do.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_06: Uh we do.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_06: So I fish in the southern part of British Columbia every summer.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_06: I think my mentality has shifted a bit, you know, coming from a lodge environment where it was more about kind of a meat fishery, getting those ties, you know, over time and working for a conservation organization.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_06: It's more about filling up my freezer with a couple of good fish to feed my family and being out there and appreciating kind of what we see.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_06: Um, so I do get on the water and fish.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_06: And, you know, I think it's an important part too, right?
1:07:46
SPEAKER_06: Like that's the pulse on how things are doing in the here and now.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_06: Before you get the data, just being able to observe, wow, there's a lot of topore, there's a lot of chinook, more than years past, is a nice kind of you know, touch point to keep.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_06: So we do we do fish less than before, um, which is nice.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_04: Which is your favorite salmon to eat?
1:08:05
SPEAKER_04: Which species?
1:08:07
SPEAKER_04: Oh, come on now.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I don't, I I love sockee.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_06: Don't catch many socks, and except in you know, banner years when there's an opportunity.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_06: Um, I would say coho.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_06: Like the smaller the fish, um, the better, the tastier.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_06: The meat is amazing.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, go with coho.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_06: Nice, perfect.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_06: Excellent.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: Listen, we've taken enough of your time.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we appreciate so much you coming in and at least shedding a bit of light on this because we truly get a lot of folks wanting to know what's happening out west because there are stories almost seems weekly um about strains of of salmon, you know, not coming back or coming back or whatever.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_02: So this has been uh refreshing for us, and we'd like to get you back on the program maybe uh in uh a bit of time as you get more details and more data collection going on, and uh just keep us in in the loop.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you bet we have our state of salmon report, our third edition coming out mid-October.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_06: So be happy to come back and chat anytime.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_02: We appreciate it.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_06: Okay, thanks, Katrina.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_06: Thank you very much.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_06: Take care.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, hopefully that gives us a little bit more uh give us you and I for sure.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm sure it must uh I'm hopefully opened the ice.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_02: That's gotta be so difficult.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean Oh my god.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's one thing when you think of uh collecting data on game fish in a lake environment, even that you say, Oh, like these fish could be.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_02: How do they do it?
1:09:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but yeah, in the ocean ocean with all these rivers and creeks and streams and stuff, and yeah.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, uh thank you, Katrina, for uh joining us.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_02: Katrina Connors.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh she is senior director uh at the Pacific Salmon Foundation.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_04: Indeed.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_04: Dar.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_02: R she be.
1:09:56
SPEAKER_02: Did we get all of our questions?
1:09:57
SPEAKER_02: I had a whole bunch written up.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_02: I had to kind of scratch after a while because we're running out of time.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_04: I think we did, all right.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_04: I think we we we and even some that we didn't have scripted, so I think it was good.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_04: You know, excellent.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_02: Well, that are it.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna call it quits.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh, reminder for everybody if uh you haven't uh been there recently, go to fishingcanada.com, uh, check out the contest section, and if you don't have a ballot in the whatever contest is going on there today, put one in.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_02: You can do it every day, free of charge.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_02: More ballots you put in the box, the better your chances.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_04: What's going on with this big Christmas thing?
1:10:33
SPEAKER_04: I want more information.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_04: There's some kind of a big Christmas draw or something coming up, or some crazy thing.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_04: Nobody tells me anything.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_04: You're you're the boss.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_04: You suppose they should tell you.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_02: I think I'm the biggest mushroom of all.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_04: When you learn, will you let me in on it?
1:10:48
SPEAKER_04: Because I'll be the last.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_04: They'll have to tell you before me.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_02: Alrighty.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_02: On behalf of uh the crew here, uh, he is Peter Bowman, uh, Nikki B under the weather today.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh Dean Taylor over there running the board.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm Angela Bio.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_02: We'll talk to you soon.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_02: This episode of Outdoor Journal Radio has been brought to you in part by the Invasive Species Center, protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_02: Freedom Cruise Canada, rent the boat, own the memories, and JMB Cycle a Marine, your home for all things power sports, boats, and equipment.