Latest / Beyond Limits With Olivia Marie / The Skincare Habits That Are Actually Making Your Skin Worse | Heather Chan

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The Skincare Habits That Are Actually Making Your Skin Worse | Heather Chan · Beyond Limits With Olivia Marie

0:08
SPEAKER_02: Hey everyone, welcome back to the Beyond Limits podcast.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to have another guest with me here today, Heather Chan, who left private equity to start Moonboat Skin with her identical twin sister.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: Heather, welcome to the show.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: So you were in private equity and you left.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: I want to kick off there.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: How did you know it was time to leave?
0:28
SPEAKER_02: How did you know you wanted to start something on your own?
0:30
SPEAKER_02: And what was it like leaving something that was so like more traditional to then go off and start a skincare company?
0:37
SPEAKER_00: So, as background, I was in private equity for seven years.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I've always had an entrepreneurial mind.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Even in high school, I've always wanted to start a company.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: I just didn't know what yet.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: And graduating from college, I actually majored in visual arts and economics, economics to get the degree so I could get a foundation in the corporate world.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: And it made sense for me to be in private private equity so I could understand how a business is run from a holistic standpoint.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: My experience in private equity, I mean, maybe that's a topic for another discussion.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: I think it was around four to five years in.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: So actually that was during COVID, where I felt like I wasn't growing in my current role and I wasn't passionate or fulfilled.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: So I almost went through this quarter life crisis where I wasn't passionate in my current role and wanted to do something else.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: And concurrently, my, you know, my discovery and my my journey on finding myself was the same time where Felice, my identical twin, was in school for traditional Chinese medicine, where she was getting her doctorates.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: And at that time, she also helped me through a myriad of health issues that I was going through during private equity, especially debilitating gut issues.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: And so with this transition, it just made sense that everything just felt like it lined up, where she was helping me with my health journey.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: I was learning more about traditional Chinese medicine in her sense.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, while we did grow up with it, she was more technical.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, skincare became a bigger part of our lifestyle.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: And it made sense, you know, during COVID to discover something else.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: And so I was actually dabbling in different types of form of entrepreneurship.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, I worked for this mushroom startup.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: I just kind of wanted to understand how it was like while I was in private equity.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: And then in 2023, I sat down with a friend, an entrepreneur who actually also has a beauty company.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Heather, you've been talking about starting this skincare company with Felice for years.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Just do it.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: And so he actually gave me homework and he was like, in two weeks, create a pitch deck and present it to me.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: So honestly, I think it really took, you know, someone to really honestly give me homework to start something new.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was, you know, a precipice of health issues to fulfillment, to just finding myself and understanding who I am to get me to this point.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: Were you scared to leave like private equity to go like on your own and start this new thing?
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Or were you like fearless?
3:10
SPEAKER_02: Like, no, I got this.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: They say that in private equity and in finance, there's this term called the golden handcuffs, where the longer you stay, the harder it is to leave because you're handcuffed by the monetary gain that you get from private equity and the security that you get.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: And that was the fear that I had on not being secure.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, but also starting something completely from scratch and taking that really large risk to do something and figure everything out.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, there was this fear, but I also have this, you know, mindset that if I don't start now or if I don't try, then how would I know?
3:52
SPEAKER_00: And worst case scenario, I go back to the corporate world.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, but for me, what was more what was more valuable for me was my fulfillment and happiness over, you know, staying in a rut in a job that I didn't enjoy.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: So when you left, you Moonbo had you were just starting it.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: It's not like it was up and running a little bit, and then you left when it was like generating enough money you right from the beginning.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: So Moonbo actually, I it was six months into starting Moonbo.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: So I was in private equity for six months while starting a Moonbo, but realizing that I couldn't do both.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, private equity was so demanding, and my team, whenever I had my own meetings, I would go into a separate room and have my own meetings about Moonbo.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: And every single time they would be like, What meeting were you in?
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, what were you talking?
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, what were you doing?
4:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's when I realized that I had to leave because I didn't have any ownership or autonomy over my time.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: All right.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: So you start Moonbo with your sister.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: Tell me what is special, where you think is different about Moonbo.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: Because when you were talking about it with me at the party, I had never heard anything like this skincare company.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: And that's what really like stuck out to me.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: What do you guys do that makes it so different?
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, mind you, there are so many skincare companies out there, so many beauty companies.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: And for me to start a company, it had to make sense that there was a white space or opportunity within that space.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, doing a lot of research before starting this company, our whole mission around Moonbo is that we are creating skincare that is inspired by traditional Chinese medicine to help with reactive skin.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: And so the white space is within the traditional Chinese medicine realm.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: And so, what that means is that we are incorporating Eastern herbs in our products, combining that with modern science.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's almost like the duality of East and West.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: And combining both, it's almost like a one plus one equals three scenario where we are sharing our traditions and the medicines from where we grew up.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: So I grew up in Hong Kong and sharing that to the Western world to make products that are more effective, but also natural and also holistic.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: So when you think about skincare brands out there, they're more product-based.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: But for us, we are based on the philosophy and an ethos of traditional Chinese medicine.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, like the reason why we decided skincare is because skincare is a manifestation of how you treat yourself and as the largest organ.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: So creating a skincare line made the most sense.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: But when we share our products out there, you know, we have three main products in a three-step routine that really helps calm reactive skin or just calm your skin in general.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: We also share on Felice's platform as well as Moonbo's platform and my platform that the best way to heal your skin is to also adapt and change your lifestyle.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: And the lifestyle aspect of Moonbo is what really resonates with consumers as well.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: I love so much of what you said.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: I there's so many directions I want to take us.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: First, when you talk about the traditional Chinese medicine that's incorporated, are there certain like herbs you're using?
6:59
SPEAKER_02: Like what is in the Moonbo?
7:02
SPEAKER_02: And also, if you could touch on why three steps, because sometimes I think people think more is better.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: We need like a 10-step routine and an 11-step Korean skincare routine got so many steps.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: What's the advantage of having like a simple three-step process and also some of these herbs that maybe people aren't familiar with, or not like the retinols or the salmon sperm now people are using?
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: So I'll touch on the herb side first.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: And well, the herbs, which is AK ingredients, our hero ingredient in our products is well, chrysanthemum.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: And growing up, we would drink this tea.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like juhua, that that's what it is in Mandarin.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: But it's this beautiful yellow flower that we would drink after a heavy meal, after dim sum growing up.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: And chrysanthemum is so cooling.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: And in traditional Chinese medicine, cooling is like how it makes your body feel.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: And it really helps with the inflammation in your body after eating a heavy meal.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: It has the same effects on your skin.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And so chrysanthemum is so anti-inflammatory and it helps con your skin that that's one of our hair ingredients.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: And so in all our products, that's the highest percentage of all the traditional Chinese medicine herbs.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: But Felice, because she's the doctor, she's really ingrained in the formulation.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And it's the combination of herbs.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: So all of our products have a combination of around five to eight different Eastern herbs.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: And that combination is what makes it so powerful.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: It's almost when she sees patients in clinic, she will give them herbs to take after, and it's a combination that makes it so effective.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: So she's almost, you know, um, I mean, she she's she's like, you know, she's a chef in the kitchen creating these formulas.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: So that's the herb side.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: But we also pair it with, you know, the Western goodies like hyaluronic acid, niacinamide, because those also have amazing effects.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: And so that's why we kind of pair the East and West in duality.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: It's like the best of both worlds.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: So that's the that's the ingredient side.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: On their routine, we have a belief that simple is actually better.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people's skin cannot take the really harsh actives, and it really doesn't require a 10-step routine.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: The first thing that everyone has to do is just to create a strong barrier.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't have a strong barrier, then you won't be able to withstand the heavy actives or the high actives that a lot of these, you know, that people are sharing, you know, that the Western world is sharing.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Um and so for us, like a three-step routine is just a super gentle routine that is easy to follow, but can also create a strong barrier and to help calm your skin.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: And so we have consumers who come, you know, to us and find Moombo who have tried, you know, really heavy activity from dermatologists and, you know, they have they stopped their routine completely and just started, you know, a really basic three-step routine.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: And our products don't have heavy actives.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: It's super gentle.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: And I think because of creating that barrier and also calming the skin, it's a really good foundation before even adding to it if you want.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: I love that you brought up skin barrier because I wanted to talk about that with you because I know I used to be so obsessed with actives and like the AHA and BHA like peels and the dentist gross pads and this toning pad.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: And my skin was so inflamed, but I thought I needed more.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: It's inflamed.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: It's not like I need more actives.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: I need to peel more, I need more things, more.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: I think I destroyed my skin barrier.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: And then when I stripped it down and did so much less and repaired my skin barrier, it changed everything.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think there are people who like me, they really need skin barrier.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: Like I think people, pendulums swing too hard one side, and what you really need is actually less, but it can feel like am I doing something less?
10:50
SPEAKER_02: Am I doing something gentle?
10:51
SPEAKER_02: Is that actually gonna work?
10:52
SPEAKER_02: Is it going to do something for my skin?
10:54
SPEAKER_02: And this whole belief, because I know I had the belief of like, no, I need harsh actives, I need intense, give me 10% benzyl peroxide, put it on my whole face, like totally destroyed.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: You must see this all the time.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: You're like, exactly.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: It's like people believe that pain will help your skin, but in reality, less is more.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: So I I totally understand where you're coming from because I was also like that at some point in my life.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Do you see any other either like mistakes or things people do with skin barriers that if you see online, you're like, oh, that's a no-no, or like that would be damaging to their barrier, whether it's something trendy you see, a certain ingredient, or just doing too much.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Like a certain trend that I don't believe in, just because my core principles from in the traditional Chinese medicine sense is putting your face in ice water.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm so glad you brought this up.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Give us the give us the 411.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: When you think about traditional Chinese medicine, uh ice stagnates.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and warm circulates.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: So when you think about putting your face in an ice bath, it could have like short-term quick effects because it stagnates your face and stagnates your muscles.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: But long term, it actually is more detrimental because you actually want warm to circulate your blood.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: And for your skin to glow and for your skin to be healthy, you want more circulation in your face.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: And so instead of putting your face in ice water, warm up a gua shaw tool and gua shaw your face.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: So there's circulation.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: That's what I that's what I tried to tell everyone.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: I love this.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm definitely gonna put a clip of that because I think so many people do, and I get the, oh yeah, it's gonna tighten, but it's only gonna do that briefly.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if it was you or Moonboat or your sister, because I said I know you sometimes collab on posts, but you were sharing this like depuffing routine.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: And one of the ones that I didn't even know about were the ears, where like you hold your ears, and you do like I do the eyebrows and the nose, but the ears, can you run us through some of the points on the face for like that?
12:55
SPEAKER_02: I think you called it the one-minute depuffing.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: So after I brush my teeth every morning, you hold your earlobes because your ear also holds so much tension and it's basically a microsystem of your entire body.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: There's so many points in the ear, which can be another discussion, but your ear is also a reflection of your entire body.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: But if you want to drain your face too, hold your earlobes and just massage it for a minute, like front and back, and it just really helps drain your face.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And so I would say that's one thing that I really do to help depuff.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: And my other one recommendation is before you, you know, before you massage your face, you have so many points on your face that you need to massage to activate first.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: So activate these different points to get a better result.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: And so it's where you have tension on your face.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: So it's between your eyebrows, it's on your, you know, your temples, it's on your chin.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: These are some of the points that I like massaging, but also like right below your neck because it's all one system.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: And so I also like massaging below my neck before I do that her routine.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: So just like really massage these different places, either with your hands or tool.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: And that just opens it up before you even do the gouache, and then it's all gonna flow even better.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: And I like it because it's so easy to do.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: It's so easy to get to white minute.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: You can even do it in the shower if your conditioner is in the hair.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, open them up and then get out of the shower, put your oil on and do the gouacha.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: But it's also, it's not just like it's also like if you want to help deflame your face, like, you know, do like body movements as well.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: Like which I think I saw part of your, was it the reset routine, jet lag routine, doing qi gong?
14:35
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: I was like, exactly.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like, I mean, growing up, like I would see, you know, all the grandmas and grandpas like doing tai chi in the park.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, for me growing up as a little kid, I'm like, this is this is so silly.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: But I understand it because it's this flow and this qi gong that actually helps activate your system.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: And so, like when you're making a coffee in the morning or when you're, you know, waiting for something, you know, just jump for 30 seconds and make these little movements to help activate your body.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's why I'm, you know, so gung-ho about working out in the morning because it helps with your system.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: But if you don't have tur time working out in the morning, do these little movements for a couple of minutes and it'll make you feel alive.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: I love that a lot of the things you're talking about are like the simple things, kind of like Moonbow.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: So, like, oh, simple open up the face, these little movements or little movements when you're making your coffee.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be some big aggressive thing.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: And I think, and maybe you can touch on this, people think they need to do so much aggressive things necessarily, whether it's their skincare, their movement.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: Would you say gentle, slower, or more like simple practices, but simple yet effective things are part of like your philosophy, how you live, but also Moonbo?
15:46
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: And it's always about listening to your body, especially women.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, before practicing traditional Chinese medicine, living this lifestyle, which was my private equity area era, I would do hits every morning.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: I would go on really long runs.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: But in reality, you need the simple small movements and really just be in tune with your body and listen to your body.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: So the day I get my period, I don't work out.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, I go for a walk instead.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: And so it's the slower movements that just help reset your body and to not, you know, over-exert yourself mentally and physically.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: I want to jump back to yes, the barrier, we talked on that.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: Then around the draining the face.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: What are other things that you see people do skincare wise that you feel is wrong for their skin type?
16:42
SPEAKER_02: Like maybe like if they're really inflamed, are they putting something like they shouldn't use hot because maybe the hot would make more heat in the body?
16:50
SPEAKER_00: For okay, so never wash your face with extremely hot water.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: So don't do the same thing.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: The same thing is still great because it's like warming and it opens your pores, but like think of it like avoid the intensities, right?
17:04
SPEAKER_00: So avoid like the super hot, avoid the super cold if your face is inflamed and reactive, like avoid the heavy, you know, active ingredients because active ingredients can further aggravate your skin.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes when consumers come out, like come and ask us questions, we always say, like, maybe simplify your routine or stop using whatever you're doing and start from there, right?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Because what you're putting in your skin is aggravating and layering your skin with so many different products is and that combination is actually going to make it worse.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And so I always recommend, like in the morning, like wash your face without any product and leave the natural oils on your face because that actually protects your skin barrier.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: So that's what I do every morning.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: What about when it comes to like aging?
17:55
SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like sometimes, yes, people go to extremes when we have like breakouts or very, you know, aggressive skin like that, but also people go to extremes when it comes to aging and fine lines.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: What is your kind of philosophy on that?
18:07
SPEAKER_02: And how does either your life or Moonbow support aging in a way that also isn't like super aggressive or anything like that?
18:13
SPEAKER_02: I know you're probably a fan of facial acupuncture, but uh Yes.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: I'll touch on facial acupuncture first and thinking about it from a holistic standpoint.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of people who would pick Botox, but Botox freezes your muscles.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Facial acupuncture, on the other hand, which is not as common, number one, because there's needles that are on your face.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people are not prone to having needles on your face, but it's more natural.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: But it hits a certain dermis level in your skin where it brings blood cells to your skin to produce natural collagen and help with the circulation on your face.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: And it requires multiple sessions for you to see actual results.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: But then again, like if you think about quick results, right?
18:57
SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like in the Western side and Western beliefs, it's also like it's all quick fixes, but it's all band-aid solutions.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: In the Eastern philosophy, it's, you know, it has to be a lot of reputa repetition, but it's finding the fundamental problem to the solution for long-term effects, right?
19:17
SPEAKER_00: So it takes more patience, it takes more time to solve that.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: And when you think about aging, it's not just about putting pro there are products on your skin that can help with aging, right?
19:30
SPEAKER_00: But my philosophy is focusing on a complete lifestyle change from the foods you eat.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: The foods that you eat is so incredibly important that can that can help with aging.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Your movements, your lifestyle, um, going outside, like I really think it's a mental and physical game.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: The mental game is as much as physical, as much as physical is mental.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: And that lifestyle change is what's gonna help with aging in the long run.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Do you find that people either neglect the mental emotional and don't really understand, I guess, how large of a role that plays.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: They think it's just, you know, physical, what they can put on or inject in rather than how they feel internally.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like when you look at someone, someone whose mental emotional state, they automatically look younger.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: Like they look more youthful, more vibrant.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Versus if you're heavily stressed, you're not taking care of yourself, you look drab, you look more tired.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: That's why people say, Oh, you look tired.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's normally because well, skin is a manifestation of how you treat your body.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, my boyfriend, for example, he gets atomic dermatitis, and that results from the stress that he has from his day-to-day, right?
20:54
SPEAKER_00: And the way that he shows stress is on the skin.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: And so when you see skin issues as well, that not just appears on your face, but also your entire body, you know, my first question is like, how are you feeling?
21:07
SPEAKER_00: And that's also part of the traditional Chinese medicine philosophy is when you see an ailment that persists in your body that is that you can see physically, it's not just okay, you know what it is, but it's also understanding what your lifestyle is, how you feel, what are you feeling emotionally, because your emotions are so in tune with your body.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like the Western side like kind of bifurcates all the different things.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Like there's doctors, you know, for the mental, there's doctors for the physical, right?
21:40
SPEAKER_00: But then in traditional Chinese medicine, it's one doctor that sees everything holistically.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: And even with skin, right?
21:46
SPEAKER_02: And I know different parts of the face.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: And I think this was trending on Instagram back in like COVID, but there's certain parts of the face connected to different organs, and different organs are checked in to different emotions, right?
21:57
SPEAKER_02: So the jawline is different from the forehead.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Different.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Can you run us through kind of like how that plays a role and how people can be like, oh, if I've got skin issues on my jawline, that's pointing more to this versus in between my eyebrows, it's pointing more to this.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: So I can give two examples.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Hormones.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Hormonal acne traditionally shows up on the chin.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: So when you break out on the chin, that's usually before period, or like whenever you have hormonal shifts, that's where it shows.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: The forehead ties to gut.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, five, six years ago when I was dealing with my health issues, I had so many dots on my forehead that I didn't know I didn't know how to get rid of.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: And the first step was to change my diet and figure out what was ruining my gut.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, so those are two examples.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy to share more after this as well and create like a little diagram.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: But there's certain examples of like what organs connect to to what part of your face.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: And I think that even loops back to I I find Chinese medicine so fascinating from the tongues to the parts of the body to the face, because it to me reads like a map.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: Like you can look at someone's all right, foreheads connected to that organ.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's your liver.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay, where are you angry?
23:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, where are you the and like to me, it's absolutely incredible.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Like it's this dictionary that your body is giving you feedback signals, or you can look at someone's tongue, and I'm like, oh, your spleen needs a bit of support.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's wild how your body's always showing you exactly what it needs.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: And there's sometimes we don't listen to it.
23:29
SPEAKER_02: And we go to those external surface, you know, more aggressive things when you're not addressing, oh, like this is what your body's actually asking for.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: It's giving you feedback constantly.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: And when you listen to that, you'll actually be able to solve it.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Like humans are so magnificent, but we are structured in a way where we focus so much on our day-to-day and we focus so much on the external, you know, we focus so much on the stress of work and our day-to-day and like focusing on what is next versus slowing down and sitting down in the morning and like people should ask themselves, how am I feeling right now?
24:06
SPEAKER_00: But not mentally.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: How is my body feeling?
24:09
SPEAKER_00: And so this morning, for example, I did an exercise on okay, what is my body feeling right now at this moment?
24:16
SPEAKER_00: It felt warm, it felt heavy, um, it felt nourished, right?
24:22
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's so important to take a step back to take time and understand how your body feels because that's a representation that'll then go to your mental.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: I want to dive into more of the TCM because I know you grew up in Hong Kong and I find it like so fascinating.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes when you post things, I giggle in my lap because I say the same things.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes people think I'm crazy, like with the wind points.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: I tell my pals, I'm like, cover up your wind points in the winter.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: He thinks I'm crazy, but it's so funny.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: So I'd love to know kind of some of the TCM isms, if you will, that you kind of learned that maybe, especially when it comes to health and wellness that people do.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, when I see people drinking cold smoothies, I'm like, what are we doing?
25:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I won't eat, I definitely won't drink a smoothie in the winter, but even in the summer, it's very rare.
25:17
SPEAKER_02: And I drink it so slowly that it's probably room temperature by the time I'm drinking most of it.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I'd love for you to explain like the smoothie thing about how you introduce a cold into the body and what that does to digestion, but maybe some other like isms that you see that from a TCM perspective, it might look trendy online.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: But actually, for some people, if you've got weak digestion, having a cold smoothie, it's actually gonna be bad for you.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, the isms in TCM, I love that.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: That's a term I haven't heard before.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, the isms.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: Avoid iced water, avoid iced drinks, because it will stagnate your body and not support digestion.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: It'll just stagnate your digestion in general and more of a long term.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: So even in the summers, my sister brings warm water to hot yoga.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy, but it, you know, that's what works for her.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: So that's from like a drinks perspective.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: From a food perspective, always eating warm foods and not cold foods, but as well as not eating raw vegetables, for example, because raw vegetables are also harder for you to digest.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: And so when I want to eat kale, for example, I stir fry it.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, I stir-fry it or like blot like blanch some spinach in in in hot water for a few minutes, you know?
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, because it just it's it's a lot more, it's easier for your body to digest.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: So that's like on the food side.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: I think now that fall is coming too, you know, the isms that I try to um follow every day is covering like the wind points, right?
26:50
SPEAKER_00: The wind channels and your neck, so you have to cover your neck and also cover your back, right?
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Because that's where you can catch a cold easier.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: And so always try to protect that.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: So I no longer wear crop tops.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say no, no iced coffees, no crop tops.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Um so that's like that that's to protect yourself, right?
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Because also like women in general also are just, you know, we like our composition is more is cool, like cooler than men in general.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: So like you just have to protect that, right?
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, slippers in the home.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, your feet is so sensitive to that it can affect how your overall body feels.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: And so I always wear slippers and I always wear socks, even in the summer.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: Do you wear socks to bed?
27:34
SPEAKER_00: I wear socks to bed, but only because my composition is also cooler, right?
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, I know a lot of people who don't because they are like their composition is hotter, but for me, I have to wear socks to bed.
27:45
SPEAKER_02: Because I saw something, oh, you like for TCM, you have to wear socks to bed.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: I was like, my feet are so hot.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm all for slippers.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: I wear socks in the house, but for sleeping, my feet are roasting without socks.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't imagine wearing socks.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: I was like, that's crazy.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: So would you also say then you should wear pajamas to bed?
28:03
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: I oh, because I don't wear pajamas.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: I I'm just picking your brain here because I'm like, that's it.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: So now that you say, I'm like, I get so hot in the house.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: You keep wearing hotels to bed.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: I think for me, I also try to cover my shoulders when I go to bed.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't like when my shoulders are bare.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: I rather be warm and hot than cold when I go to bed.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: But it like it really depends on your composition.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: And and every human is so different, you know.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm not perfect and my body isn't perfect, but I am deficient as well.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Like so you run more deficient than excess.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I run more deficient, so I run more cold, right?
28:35
SPEAKER_00: So listen to your body and understand, okay, if you run more cold, then practice these, you know, is-ms that help nourish your coldness, right?
28:45
SPEAKER_00: So eat warm, warming foods.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: But then in traditional Chinese medicine, too, we define foods as hot and cold, but it's not the temperature of the food, it's how it makes your body feel.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, hot foods, for example, are mangoes, um, ginger, cinnamon.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: I love ginger.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: It just like makes your body feel warm, you know, chilies.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Cold foods is chrysanthemum tea, it's super cooling because it helps with inflammation, right?
29:12
SPEAKER_02: Um so even if you were drinking the tea warm, it's technically a cooling.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: It's cooling, exactly, because it's not temperature.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, pears are super cooling.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Crabs are really cooling, for example.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, I could see crabs being cool.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: So whenever we would eat crabs growing up, um, we would always pair it with ginger tea after, because our parents would be like, if you don't drink this ginger tea, you're gonna get sick the next day because it's super cooling.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: So ginger is warming, and so it, you know, it counteracts the coolness.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: So you even want to think about all right, if I'm eating a cool food, we should have a little bit of warmth afterwards to help it versus the opposite when you were sharing before about having the chrysampinum, which is cold after the heavy meal, that's to balance it out.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: So it's really like a balancing.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: It's all about balance, exactly.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: Like not warming is not better than cooling, right?
29:59
SPEAKER_00: But it's always finding that balance.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's the ethos of traditional Chinese medicine.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: And it's not necessarily the temperature, it's the actual food itself.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: But it also is, can be like if it's ice cold smoothie or ice cold ice water and iced coffee, that is the cold is actually cold.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: And we always get this question.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, like I love iced coffees, I love smoothies.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: If I still want to drink it, what can I do?
30:23
SPEAKER_00: Take a ginger shot after or after.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: So if they wanted to do that, you should have the warm before or after, or ideally both?
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Either before or after, just some way to balance your body or drink a warm cup of water after to help balance your body.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: So really thinking about the balance between the two.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: And then if you're someone who runs more cold, you know, we want slippers, we want to be covering up those points, we want all of those things.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: It's a philosophy of yin and yang, you know, how everything is in balance.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: But I think that's also important to learn with coming of the seasons.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: And when this comes out, we're going into fall.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: All right now, it's like we got to cover up those wind points.
31:01
SPEAKER_02: We got to introduce more warming foods as the temperatures get cooler and that helps the body kind of adjust.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: But then as you go into summer, you can have maybe a bit more pears and all of that.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Totally, totally.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: And also like eat the foods that are in that season.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's fall season foods, right?
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Eat that because the world and nature is telling you what you should be like what foods should nourish your body exactly.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love it.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so true.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any more like isms that you feel like you do or you grew up with that people feel when I moved to the US for college, cold water at restaurants was like ice water was something so I drank ice water.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was was something so odd to me.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Because in restaurants in Hong Kong, whether it was a Western restaurant or Chinese, they always gave you either warm water or room temperature water.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, that's a Nism I talked about.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: No, but I like that because I think someone can think about that in the morning.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I wake up, I have a hot water with lemon.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: That's very like people have been doing that for 10 years.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: But when you go out for dinner, when I ask for like a warm water with lemon, people at a restaurant look at me like I'm insane.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I don't have it.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: It's like the beginning of a meal and you're drinking hot water.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, yes.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, another ism.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, another ism.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Going to bed with wet hair.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: I really a couple of times.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: So, but going to bed with wet hair, so I always blow dry my hair and ensure that my hair is dry before I go to bed because your hair is all like your head is also like it's close to your neck, but it's also an introduction to your entire body.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: And it just creates that, like it just doesn't help with the circulation.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: It could also make you sick.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: So growing up, my parents would be like, you know, don't go to bed with wet hair.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Like you could catch a cold, you know, it's it's it's the cooling and it's the wet of your hair that can help, like, that can physically actually affect your body.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: So it is true when they say, like, don't go outside with wet hair and like and it would don't go outside in the winter with wet hair exactly.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: But growing up, you know, my parents would say, like, don't do this, don't do this, do this, do that, you know.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: And I never really understood it until, you know, I was older that all these isms was essentially lifestyle changes or just lifestyles or the way that my family would live life that makes them healthier, that helps with their longevity, you know, and it's these isms that can really truly transform your life.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: And moving to the US, I forgot about this for 10 plus years.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: And that is also why, you know, we created this brand to also remind not just ourselves, but other people that your entire life can change.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: And they're simple things.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: It's just like, oh, add some warmth and add this.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: Like it's not, it's something everyone can do every single day.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: And it's very easy to do when you just consciously think about it and put some thought, like, oh, let's just balance this out.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: I love and I like that you brought in longevity.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I want to circle back to the business and what it's like doing it with your sister.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like people either really with family, you can it really works or it really doesn't.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: So, how has that been for you guys?
34:19
SPEAKER_02: Do you find all right, like one of you're in charge of this, one of you in charge of that, and that's how you do it, or how do you navigate and how has that been?
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Because I came from private equity.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: The entire time I was in private equity, Felice was in school.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: So she's a scholar.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: And I would say that I'm like more intense that way because of how I was trained.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: That the first three months of starting a business with Felice, we fought every single day.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, she's my identical twin, she's my best friend, but we fought every single day because I assumed that she had the same skills that I learned.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: And I assumed that what I could do, I could expect from her as well.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, for example, it's like I can sit in front of an Excel and look at numbers for eight hours.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: And so I expected her to do the same thing and to analyze it the same way.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: And it was honestly eye-opening to me to understand that and to realize that she didn't work that way and she doesn't work that way.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: She has so many other strengths that are so powerful and a value add to Moonbo.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: And once I had that personal realization, we haven't fought since.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: And it's really staying in our lanes and finding a co-founder, not as a sibling, but just co-founders in general, to ensure that your skills don't mesh and don't clash, and that you have like different skill sets that can help, you know, bring the brand to the next level.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: So, like, for example, for me, I really deal with like the day-to-day operations and strategy.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, Felice is a creative, she's a scholar, she's a doctor, you know, she sees patients twice a week.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: And that's something that she has, you know, that she wants to do and continue learning about the medicine and continue, you know, healing people that way.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: But she's also a creative and, you know, you know, is an educator on socials.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: And so her whole focus is, you know, focusing on partnerships and focusing on the social side.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: So she's all creative and marketing.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: For me, it's operations and strategy.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: So that's our lane.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, she dabbles in the formulation.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: So, like, there's of course a lot of overlap.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: But like for her, it's like when we are in formulation calls, she makes the executive decisions.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: I love how you talked about complementary.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: Because I think if two of you were like really good the spreadsheets and nobody either wanted to do or didn't have skill sets in the marketing, then it wouldn't work.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: And somehow, like through the both of you, you are perfectly complimentary for each other and strengths, and you get probably amplify and support each other in developing those.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the yin and yang.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: That's why yin and yang.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: So we kind of full circle.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: And think actually, I want to pause there and ask if you know what a moon bow is.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: You told me it was uh something at the end of the rainbow.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's forget.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: It's a rainbow around a moon.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: It's a rainbow halo and around a moon.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: And the reason why we called our brand moonbow is because in traditional Chinese medicine, the moon is very yin, it's dormant and quiet.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: And the rainbow is very young, the fiery, the loud.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm the young, the rainbow.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: She's the moon, you know.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: So that's who we are as humans, you know, and as our personalities.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's why, you know, together the moon and the rainbow is such a beautiful phenomenon.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: And that's how, like, that's the whole ethos and philosophy for brand, the yin and yang, the balance of everything.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: And I love how both of you are like the yin and yang.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: Like the perfect balance of everything.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: I feel I love that Moonbo has such like a strong philosophy behind it and like a depth and a purpose.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: It's not just like this trendy TikTok thing.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: Like it, there's a way of life.
37:53
SPEAKER_02: It represents something like so ancient and deep, but so like Yeah, I think you know what I mean by that.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: Like that's what really I love about the brand that you guys created.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: Like for us, like our whole mission, our long time, our long-term mission alliance in which we want to share traditional Chinese medicine to the world and to the Western world.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: And to do that, it's really important to base your brand on a philosophy and not brace base your brand in a product, because product doesn't have longevity, but a philosophy has longevity.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, in 10, 15 years, you know, we don't know where Moonbo will go.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: But because it's based on a philosophy, it can extend beyond product.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: It can be extend beyond skincare.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking about it.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Like we can create a world of traditional Chinese medicine.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what's so beautiful about this brand because there's just so much potential for growth.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: I want to close this off with what you are most excited for coming with Moonbo.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: Are you working on something new or is it new something?
38:59
SPEAKER_02: What are you most excited for?
39:01
SPEAKER_00: It could just be expansion as well, but yeah, we are definitely expanding next year.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know how much I can share, but lots of exciting things happening in Moonbo.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: Um expanding in terms of retailers or the line itself?
39:17
SPEAKER_00: We're expanding in retailers, we're expanding on the dot-com side, we're also expanding on products.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: So really expanding on all fronts.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's what I'm really excited about.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: And I think on this expansion, it, you know, Moonbo will get out to consumers that, you know, Moonbo hasn't touched yet.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm most excited about, and consumers learning about traditional Chinese medicine.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: But not just traditional Chinese medicine, though.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, the two types of consumers that Moonbo finds is the holistic consumers who really understand this philosophy already, but also the consumers who have reactive skin.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: And the consumers who have reactive skin that don't have any idea on what traditional Chinese medicine is, they learn about it by using the product and by following Moombo and by seeing what our community shares.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm most excited about, honestly, just to touch this, these consumers and to make a difference in their lives.
40:17
SPEAKER_02: That's so beautiful.
40:18
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
40:18
SPEAKER_02: And thank you for coming on.
40:20
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: It was absolutely amazing.
40:22
SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to check out Moombo.
40:24
SPEAKER_02: We'll link that down below, as well as their Instagram and Heather, so that you can follow along for all their new exciting launches and expansion.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: And I'll see you guys in the next episode.