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How the Magna Carta Worked · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know a production of I
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the Perd Carst. I'm
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Josh Clark, and there's Charles w Chuck Bryant and Jerry's
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: over there somewhere, and this is stuff you should know
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the perd Carst. Did I say that? I think so.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: You sounded like Kristen Wiggs target lady character. I'm not familiar.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Paired Coast. Oh no, way, that's a
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: different character. What character was that? I think that was
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Mike Meyer's Scottish guy. No, not that jerk. I don't
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  Speaker 1: know who then, Oh, I'm blanking. People are screaming at
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  Speaker 1: their radio. Is that well known of a character? There
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: a m FM radio just to listen to. How is
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: this coming through? It's like when a fifty year old podcasts.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: M h, it's true, a fifty year of this podcasting
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  Speaker 1: before very ears. Right now. That's right, that's me. He
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: can't the age me. Martin Scorsese running circles around the
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: younger ones. Chuck, um, so, Chuck. Have you ever seen
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: the Simpsons? Oh boy, you got one for me. Did
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: you ever see the one about the murder House where
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Marge becomes a real tour You mean a certified real tour. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: of course, what are the kind of I don't know,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: remind me. Oh so anyway, Marge becomes a real tour
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: and she uh, I think with Lionel Huts is realty
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  Speaker 1: company and it's like a kind of like a Glen
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Garry Glenn Ross spoof is like that that little uh subplot.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: But um, she she uh tries to sell a house
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: that like a multiple murder was committed in uh to
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Flanders and his family back when Maud was still alive.
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  Speaker 1: And she does and tell them it's a murder house, um,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and feels like a tremendous amount of guilt and then
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  Speaker 1: finally like confesses and I don't think they end up
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  Speaker 1: buying the house anyway, I don't remember, but it's a
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  Speaker 1: pretty good one that has almost nothing to do with anything.
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  Speaker 1: I could have just stopped right there where Marge became
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  Speaker 1: a real tour because she's taking the realty test and
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: um Lisa comes along and teaches her how to how
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: to remember things using mnemonic devices and in um. In
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: one example she gives, she says, and you can put
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: like something you're trying to remember to a song like
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: in twelve fifteen running me Doude dudea, the nobles and
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  Speaker 1: the king agreed, Oh do do da day? That's great.
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  Speaker 1: That is one of my go to references for the
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Magna Carta. You know what mine is? Funny enough, man,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: that was a tortured intro. No. I thought it was
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: great Simpsons reference is what it was. I thought it
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: was fantastical. Thank you. And I've never heard that. I
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: don't remember that episode and I've never heard that little jingle,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: so vintage classic Simpsons. When I think of Magna Carta,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I think of Johnny Dangerously the movie with Michael Keaton,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: the very funny spoof movie, because at one point I
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: think the someone is on death row and they're being
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: read fake last rites by a fake priest as they
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: walk down the Green Mile and they're just sort of
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: making up Latin terms and he goes Magna carta master chargea.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And I saw that in the theater when I was whatever,
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  Speaker 1: like ten or eleven, and I've remembered that ever since.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: It gets in your name and your your head, those
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: two words they go really well together. They have a
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: tendency to stick around. And then also like you get
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the idea when you when you kind of like Percy
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: little ears up about this magnet carda thing that it
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: was kind of pretty important. People people tend to put
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of stock into it. Yeah, Uh, she's and know,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: and I'm looking and I can't even see what Magna
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: carta what does it mean? Great Charter? The Great Charter
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: of course. Yeah. And technically the name of the Magna
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  Speaker 1: Carta what we're talking about. We'll get into all like
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  Speaker 1: the little details and everything in a second, but um,
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  Speaker 1: it's called the Magna Carta Libertarium. So it's the Great
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  Speaker 1: Charter of Liberties, is what it really is. And a
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  Speaker 1: lot of people, like I was saying, they put a
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  Speaker 1: lot of stock into they basically say, you say that
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: this is the well spring, at least in the UK
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  Speaker 1: and America and I and by extension Australia and Canada
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  Speaker 1: of human rights, of like civil rights, of the basic
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: rights that every citizen has, that like that all kind
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  Speaker 1: of came from this document, and that before that there
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: really wasn't that kind of stuff. And you have to
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: really narrow your focus here because in this time period
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: we're talking about around them, like twelve and thirteenth centuries CE,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: like England was still kind of figuring out which way
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: it was going. At the same time, if you went
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: to the Arab world, you would find half a million
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: people living in some cities. Well, there was like ten
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  Speaker 1: thousand people living in London. If you went to the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: west to modern day St. Louis, the Cahokia Mound civilization
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  Speaker 1: had like fifteen thousand people living there. China had been
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: running a bureaucracy for a good thousand years by this time.
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  Speaker 1: So this is new to England and the English, and
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: there their descendants and ancestors around this this time, this era.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: But if you narrow it like that, then yeah, you
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: can make a pretty good case that for you and
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: me and those of us born in America, you can
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  Speaker 1: trace your civil liberties pretty directly back to this document. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: And like even if the document itself as well learn
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: uh wasn't necessarily honored initially or even later. Um, it
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: was it was that seed that was planted that it
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  Speaker 1: had to be at least uh, and we'll and we'll
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: see later on. You know it once it was in place,
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  Speaker 1: you kind of couldn't go backwards from there, even though
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: some people did try later on, some royalty. It just
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  Speaker 1: didn't happen. So it's sort of drew a line in
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  Speaker 1: the sand and said, all right, from this point forward,
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  Speaker 1: at least things for people, any people other than not
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  Speaker 1: every person, but people other than royalty at least won't
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: won't go backwards from here. No, And like you said,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: they tried it. Definitely wanted to. But when you lay
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: down something like people have rights that are basic to
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  Speaker 1: them from the moment they're born, that's a tough one
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  Speaker 1: to repeal, you know what I'm saying. Once that's out there,
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  Speaker 1: that's that's tough to put it back in the box.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: And good, it's good for us, bad for despotic absolutist monarchs. Though.
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  Speaker 1: So should we get into a little background here, Yeah,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I think we should because we got we got some
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: ground to cover. Yeah, so, uh, the Grabster helped us
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: with this, and you could. I love it. You know,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: you can tell when, uh, when our writers are really
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: into something by sort of how much background they give
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: us on stuff before they get to this stuff. I
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: think that I think that was into it. I think
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: he was wearing chainmail while he was writing them. He
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: may have been, but it did a great job with
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: a setup. And you know, we we have to point
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: out that this was a time, like you said, where
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  Speaker 1: there was a king that ruled the land and everyone
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  Speaker 1: had to do what the king said basically. And then
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: you had uh, you know, you had people that ruled
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  Speaker 1: over smaller fiefdoms throughout the land, but they still answered
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  Speaker 1: to the king. But they had their subjects as well.
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  Speaker 1: But it was it was a bit of a mess.
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  Speaker 1: Like even though the king could kind of do what
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: they wanted, the king usually knew like, hey, I can't
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: push things too far otherwise it gets really bad for me.
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  Speaker 1: So let me see if I can walk right up
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  Speaker 1: to that line as often as I can in many
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  Speaker 1: cases as far as royalty is concerned, and sort of
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  Speaker 1: push things as far as like you know, ringing money
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  Speaker 1: out of people, uh for bribes or or quote unquote
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  Speaker 1: taxes or uh, you know, try and just ruling with
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  Speaker 1: a harsh hand, but not necessarily a hand that will
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  Speaker 1: be so bad that the people revolt. Yeah, that was
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  Speaker 1: a fine line. And so some kings in the history
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  Speaker 1: of England, we're really good at being kings. I get
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  Speaker 1: the impression that the more land you conquered in the
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  Speaker 1: name of England, the more people you brought under your rule, Um,
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  Speaker 1: the happier you could keep, the like the barons, the
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  Speaker 1: people who um own the land that that, you know,
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  Speaker 1: kind of all collectively made up your kingdom, the better
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  Speaker 1: off you were. But yeah, you still were going to
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  Speaker 1: need money to run things, so you're gonna have to
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  Speaker 1: extract that stuff. So you had to just push it
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  Speaker 1: just as far as you could. That was a good king.
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  Speaker 1: There were also plenty of bad kings who would go
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  Speaker 1: way past the line, and they were they they could
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  Speaker 1: be allowed to do that because in England, kings were
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  Speaker 1: divinely decreed by God. Their authority was derived directly from God.
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  Speaker 1: So whatever they did, no matter how unhappy that made you,
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  Speaker 1: God said it, So this king is allowed to do it.
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  Speaker 1: In practice, that didn't actually like work out all the time,
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  Speaker 1: Like it's not like the barons were like what are
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  Speaker 1: you gonna do? God? God said? But they there was
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  Speaker 1: still kind of that air that or around it. And
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  Speaker 1: at the very least, even if you didn't buy into
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  Speaker 1: that directly, that was the custom and had been for
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  Speaker 1: a really long time, and that's hard to buck. So
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  Speaker 1: you had good kings who still went up the line.
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  Speaker 1: You have bad kings who crossed the line, and when
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: you put it all together, more often than not, that
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  Speaker 1: line was being really kind of made to feel claustrophobic,
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  Speaker 1: and so the barons would be unhappy. And they were
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  Speaker 1: the ones the power. So if you push the barons
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  Speaker 1: too far, they would push back, and then you would
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  Speaker 1: end up with things like written laws and customs and
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  Speaker 1: decrees that said the king won't do this anymore, right. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: And there's also a third group in there of kings
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  Speaker 1: that just weren't very good at their job. Like I
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: think history often like they often overlook sheer incompetence in
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  Speaker 1: favor of you know, like this person did all these
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  Speaker 1: great things, or this person was an evil tyrant, and
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: like some of them just weren't too good at it. Yeah,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: the they like the day to day the Franklin pierces
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  Speaker 1: of the English king Lin. Uh. So we'll skip up
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  Speaker 1: to Henry the first uh alevend created the Charter of Liberties.
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  Speaker 1: And this was sort of if the Magna Carta was
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  Speaker 1: the seed of liberty for people like you and me, later,
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  Speaker 1: the Charter of Liberties may have been the precede to
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  Speaker 1: that seed in a way, because it is the first
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: kind of official thing that limited the king's power just
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  Speaker 1: a bit. Uh, And in this case there were other things,
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  Speaker 1: but it did limit the king's power to appoint church offices.
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  Speaker 1: Um guaranteed that any like inheritances would be carried forth,
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  Speaker 1: and there were no bribes necessary. So just sort of
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  Speaker 1: like cleaned up the act of the royals in this
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: sort of smallest ways. Yeah, because before it was like
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  Speaker 1: you could, if you were the king, could be like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I don't care, give me some money if you want
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: to be legally married, or give me some money if
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: you um wanted to be promoted in your church ranking,
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  Speaker 1: Like you could just extract money for anything. And so
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: this is the first time where it was kind of like, okay,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: we'll go we we won't do that, we won't keep
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: pushing things like you were saying. Like it just kind
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: of cleaned up the monarchy and limited their ability and
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: it was kind of a big thing. And again that
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  Speaker 1: came out of a bad king. That was Henry, who
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: had to clean up the mess left by his successor
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  Speaker 1: or his predecessor, William the Second, his brother, who had
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: been a bad king, had overtaxed, had overstepped the boundaries
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  Speaker 1: and now there had to be some sort of document
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  Speaker 1: created to say we won't do that again. This is
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  Speaker 1: where laws came from in England, like people overstepping bounds
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  Speaker 1: and being pushed back on right or the king just
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  Speaker 1: arbitrarily deciding things. So Henry one dies, uh, succeeded by
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  Speaker 1: Stephen the First. And this one was a little dicey
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: because Stephen the first ascension to the throne was contested
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: and resulted in a civil war called the anarchy. Uh.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: And the anarchy was was a mess. It was a
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: pretty brutal, lawless time. And um, Stephen I think he
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: wasn't around too long, but he was quickly followed by
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  Speaker 1: Henry the Second, who ruled for about thirty five years
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  Speaker 1: I think right at thirty five years. And this was
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: at the end of the anarchy. But Henry the Second
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  Speaker 1: comes in and basically says, all right, the royals are back, baby,
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  Speaker 1: and there are gonna be a bunch of reforms here.
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  Speaker 1: We're gonna centralize our power. Things have gotten out of
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  Speaker 1: hand with his anarchy and uh, it's all under my
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  Speaker 1: control now. Um. And in a way this was it
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: was good and bad. It's it's never great when someone
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: assumes his absolute authority. But it's also better just to
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: have a more structured, codified system than all these weird
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: arbitrary laws that were kind of all over the place
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and scattered about before exactly. Yeah. So, and one of
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the reasons why Henry the second did that is because
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: he was very much into adventurism. He would he would
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: go out of England and try to conquer more lands
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: and that was his big thing. Parasailing, that was his thing. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: So he needed he needed some basically some some structure
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that he could set in place that didn't require him
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: to be there all the time to oversee it. And
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: some of that like actually kind of benefited people, um
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: in part because like you said, it was it wasn't
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: arbitrary anymore. And there were like some real reforms, like
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: he set up a panel of judges that would go
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: around and and basically carry out criminal trials. Rather than
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: just people getting away with crimes or maybe being subject
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: to mob justice, they were trying to apply some sort
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: of actual justice to it. Um. Uh. You could now
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: if you were a surf or a peasant, you could
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: complain to the king and go over the lord of
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: the manner that you worked on his head if he
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: was mistreating you like that was brand new. And so
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: there was like some good things that were set in
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: place by Henry the Second. He wasn't like some benevolent
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: guy or anything like that, but he he did leave
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: that legacy and it was a it was a big deal.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: A lot of people point to his code as the
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: beginning of English common law. Yeah, he was. He was
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: not a great guy. He was in fact a pretty
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: brutal uh person on the battlefield, and he would brutal leader,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: he would, and he and he did a good job
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: leading on the battlefield, and he loved going to war.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: But he would cut the feet off or the um
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: genitals from his enemies. Uh. He would you know, lock
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: people in the dungeons. He was known supposedly for gouging
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: out the eyes of a young messenger boy one time
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: who delivered bad news. Uh. So he wasn't some great guy.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: And he was also like he had to finance all
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: of these travails in wars all over the place, and
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: that cost a lot of money. So a lot of
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: what he did when he when he brought all this
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: under his order, was made a lot of money and
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: raised a lot of revenue. Uh, and was kind of
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: just squeezing every last bit he could out of these
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: landowners again with those kind of fees like you were
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: talking about, like, hey, if you're a widow and you
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: want to remarry, h pay me. If you want to
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: inherit some land or a title, pay me. Maybe you
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: can even and bribe me. I'm you know, I'm open
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: to that right, which is arbitrarian and of itself, because
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: the person doesn't necessarily deserve whatever it is they're bribing
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: the king for an exchange for and that's you know,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: that's not good. It's also in direct violation of the
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Charter of Liberties that Henry the First had laid out.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: And now that there was that, now that that had
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: been established by Henry the First, the nobility could point
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: to that and be like, you're not honoring this stuff,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: like this is something we can hold your feet to
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the flames over. It didn't necessarily work with Henry the
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Second because he was such a strong king, but it
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: was it was something that they could point to and
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: they could say like this is wrong and here's why. Yeah,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: and you know there's something I meant to point out
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: at the beginning that that I'll bring up here that's
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: really kind of integral to how all of this worked
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: back then, is it was sort of a a three
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: way dance between um, nobility, these really wealthy influential bearing
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and then the church. And like those are the three
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: big pieces of the puzzle that like everyone kind of
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: had to be happy among that group to a certain
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: degree or there were big problems. Uh. And it was
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: always sort of that dance with the royalty two sort
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: of make sure that like they were extracting money from
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: the barons, but they didn't want to make them too
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: unhappy because I said, they would revolt. But you also
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: had to satisfy the church, which technically was a separate entity,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a minute. But the push
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: and pull among these three groups was really a pretty
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: key thing to how everything operated back then. Yeah, um,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and yeah, that was an excellent point because the church
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: was like a state unto itself, right, it could make
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: its own money. And um, this is at a time
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: when the prevailing economic theory was that there was like
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: a finite amount of money in the in the world.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: So when you were extracting money from like the barons,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: whether you were the church or whether you were the king,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: like that really hurt, hurt more than you know it
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: does paying taxes today, because there's this idea that that
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: like that was it there. There was like a zero
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: sum game. Everybody was taking in exchanging from the same
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: pot um. So yeah, if you could kind of balance
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: all those three together, you had a pretty stable monarchy.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: But more often than not, it was like we were saying,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: people kind of push things over the edge. Henry the
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: second definitely did that with the bribery, but again he
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: was a strong monarch um and then he was he
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: was succeeded by a couple of people that are kind
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: of studies in contrast as far as kings of England go.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Don't you think, Yeah, maybe let's take a break. That's
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: a great cliffhanger. Who could these two people be? Laurel
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: and Hardy C. C. De Ville could be the Hardy Boys,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: which like with Parker Stevenson and what's his other name?
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I bet you that's who it is, the other guy,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: poor other guy learning stuff with Joshua John. All Right,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: we're back Parker Stevenson and Fred Noonan with the two
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: party boys. No, uh, you're talking about Richard, and then John.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: We'll start with Richard. Henry the Second died and his son,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Richard the Lion Hearted inherited the throne, and he was
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: beloved and he did a lot of crusades as well
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: and had a lot of great military successes and uh,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: you know, I had to spend a lot of money
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: to do so, of course, but he died unexpected lee.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: And then Henry the second, his his dad was Henry
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the Second. His son John took over the throne. And
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: remember when I mentioned earlier that some some people just
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: were not good at their job. This was John. He
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: was just not good at being a politician, not good
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: at being a king, not good at getting along with
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the barons and the church. He was just not cut
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: out for it. Yeah, and he's the main bad guy.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I think we I wondered if Richard the third was
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: the main bad guy or the king and the Robin
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Hood legend is King John? Oh is it really? Yeah?
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Because I remember Richard the Lion Heart is like all
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: fighting the crusades, and King John's running the show in
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: a mean and incompetent way. That's who Robin Hood's fighting.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And the Sheriff of Nottingham. But in real life John
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: was just he was not meant to be a king.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: You know. He was Richard's brother, he was the younger brother,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and Henry the second. Their father didn't even for one
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: he didn't even name John after a king um. And
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: he didn't give him any land um. So there was
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: no no, no area for him to rule. He was
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: sent off to like study with scholars. That's what he
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: was supposed to be. So he was never bred to
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: be a king, and he wasn't a very good one,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: regardless because of that or or just naturally. But his
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: first nickname among the nobility was John Lackland because he
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: didn't have any land, because they must have really burned him,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: you know, that's pretty funny. But he was terrible. But
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: more to the point, like not only was he like
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: bad with money and like he was a despot in
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways too. He lost land. Remember I
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: said the kings that were most beloved were the ones
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: that like added to the kingdom. The ones that were
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: the most despised were the ones who lost land from
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: the kingdom. And that was what John did almost out
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: of the gate. Yeah, he was losing land to king
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Phillip the second of France and and uh, you know
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: ed points out and it's important to know here that
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: you know, England and France back then were it's not
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: like it is today, Like they were very intertwined. Um.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: England held a lot of land in the north of France,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and they were constantly kind of going back and forth
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: about like winning and taking land from one another. So
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: it's it's you gotta have to kind of deprogram yourself
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: from how you think of those two countries today to
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: think about how it was back then. Um. So he
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: was losing land to King Philip the second, and uh,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Philip like to John's cousin, Arthur of Brittany, and he
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: had a competing claim to the throne. So Philip was
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: in Arthur's court. And you know, John just wasn't doing
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: a good job. He was blowing through money he which
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: meant he had to get more money out of the
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: barons than even his predecessors did. And he was not
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: winning land with this money, so he was he was
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: just going down the tubes fast. Yeah. And one one
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: thing I saw a check. Just want to mention these
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the English um were so intertwined with the French at
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: the time that these kings that we're talking about, Henry
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the Second, Richard the Lion Hearted, h John Lackland, they
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: all spoke French. And that interesting. The English king spoke
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: French at the time. Oh sure, like when you go
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: to if you look at any of the old movies
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: that are historically accurate, it's really hard to make sense
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: of any of it. When like people from France or
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: sending their daughter to England to marry into It's like
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: it's it's really confusing, and I don't know if it's
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: about the family lines, but it's it is super confusing,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: like the um oh, like Catherine the Great. And some
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: of this comes from watching TV, I'll admit, but that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: TV show The Great is really good because I think
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: wasn't Catherine the Great Russian? Yes? Or she was married
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: off to the Russians. I'm not sure she was a
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: born Russian. I don't know. It's all just very confusing.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but I mean that was a really good
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: way to consolidate power into games. Even more land um
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: would be to to marry like another royal family and
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: just put your stuff together, make you make yourselves even
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: harder to I might have gotten that all wrong, by
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: the way, but it was off the dome as the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: kids say, hey, that's all right, man, off the domes
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: pretty great, alright. So John is uh, you know, I
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: talked about this sort of three prun thing. John is
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: not doing well. He is ticking off the barons because
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: he's having to squeeze more money out of them. So
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: it's like, well, surely he at least did okay with
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the church right to keep that uh stool stable. Not
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: true at all. Pope Innocent the Third was in charge
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: at the time, and he appointed a new Bishop of
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Canterbury named Stephen Langton, who would turn out to be
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: a big thorn and John's side. John did not want Langton,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: and so he got mad and basically took his ball
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and went home. Uh. He took control of Canterbury all
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: the church's possessions and said, Lankton, you can't even come
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: in the country. And so Innocent the Third said, oh, yeah,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna issue a people degree that
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: basically all church services in England aren't valid anymore and
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: you can't hold them. And you know, if it was
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: you and me, we'd be like, sweet, we don't have
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: to go to church anymore. But it wasn't like that
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: back then. It was a really big deal. Uh. Ed said,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: this was like dropping in ecclesiastical nuclear bomb into Britain
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and that's kind of true. Yeah, because also the church
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: was a huge employer in England at the time too.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: So now all the people who work in the church's
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: jobs are like, well are are are we valid? What's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: going on here? You know? Do we have the same
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: protections that we used to It's it was a big,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: big deal. And yeah, for all intents and purposes, England
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: under King John was at war with um, the Church
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: under Innocent the Third and it stayed that way for
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: a little while. Um, and they just put John that
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: was it. That was the last box to be checked.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Like he was at odds with absolutely everybody, uh, and
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: was a very unpopular king by anybody's anybody's measure. Um,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: whether you were a commoner or whether you were nobility,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: or whether you were a bishop, you did not like
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: King John very much. And then add to that that
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: the guy that Um Innocent the Third appointed to the
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Archbishop of Canterbury. And this is also by the way,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: after the last Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Beckett had been
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: murdered at the behest of John's father, Henry the second
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: um murdered brutally too. I read a first person account
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: of It's one or more ghastly murders I've ever heard um.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: But the guy who came in, Stephen Langton, he was
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: like a progressive. He was basically writing about things that
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: questioned the divine authority of the monarchy, how some people
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: or not some people, but people had some natural rights,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: like all people had some natural rights that even a
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: king couldn't violate. Like really progressive stuff. And this guy's
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: coming into England at a time when it has one
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: of its weakest kings in its history and basically set
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the stage for the Magna Carta to to uh kind
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: of be written full stop? What else did you? I mean?
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: And could I have dressed it up more? Put a
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: little fruit on its head? Just your voice went up,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: So I thought that was more. I was using up speak.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I was using so you might be asking yourself like
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: kind of what's the big deal? Because things were a
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: mess at various points in history, and there were revolts before,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: and there was unrest before between the Church and the royals,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: and was like why was this the big one that
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: kind of made everything change? And there are there are
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: a few reasons for this, um, one of which you
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: know I talked about France and England being so intertwined. Uh.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: John lost land, but he lost Normandy, which was a
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: really big deal. Um. The Norman's in then had a
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: lot of land in northern France, like I said earlier,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: since William the Conqueror uh got control of Normandy at
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the Battle of Hastings. And the Normans were a tight
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: group and they were very influential in England. And then
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: when John lost Normandy, it was it was more than
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: just losing land. It was it was a big deal. Yeah,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: they started calling him John soft Sword after that, did
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: they really? Yeah, that was his second nickname, John John
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: soft Sword. Uh. The church at the time, like we said,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: was was separate, and so they had their own set
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: of laws, even they didn't have to. They had their
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: ecclesiastical laws. So if a church official ran a foul,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: they were you know, they could say, no, no, no,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: the King isn't gonna declare judgment on you. You You come
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: over here with us, we have our church law. It's
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: probably not as stiff to be honest uh. And and
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: basically John said, you know, forget that tradition. You guys
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: are under I rule and my decrees. And again this
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: just sent him further down the toilet um and then
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: like I was into the privy yes um. And then
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: add to that also that the the just the way
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: that people thought about the monarch, like thanks to people
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: like Stephen Langton, the new Archbishop of Canterbury um. And
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the fact that the the Henry the first Document of Liberties,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: a Charter of Liberties had had already been established. Like
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: just people were just thinking about things differently, and all
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: of this stuff kind of came together at this vortex
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: um and there was there was a point where finally
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: John was like okay, at the very least sending to
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: be in with the Pope and basically knelt before the
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Pope and said England is a vassal state to um
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the church again, which is a big deal um. But
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: it put put John in England back in Pope Innocent
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the third good graces and they were fine again. But
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: that did nothing to help the barons uh. And as
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: a matter of fact, um, the barons were just as
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: put upon as before. But now John was even more
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: emboldened by having the full support of the Pope again,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: and so the baron said, you know what, forget this,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: enough of this, it's twelve fourteen and it's time for
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: some change. So they actually cobbled together uh a fighting
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: force and took London bye bye by force. They stormed
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: it and occupied London, uh, in open rebellion against King
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: John people. Yes, that's true, it really was. This is funny. Well,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: it's funny to think of now. I mean, like ten
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: tho people living in London, but that's just the way
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: it was at the time. So yeah, you and I
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: could probably take London with ten thousand people, but it's
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: still significant to mention. Yeah, and are in our smartphones.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: That's all we need. Yeah, look at the boomstick. Have
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: you ever seen a dog say I love you. Well,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I've got a video of it. Oh my god, they're bowing. Um.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it wasn't a civil war, but it was.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: It was a big deal. It was an open rebellion.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: John knew this was not a good thing. So in
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: twelve fifteen he said, all right, I gotta make peace
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: with these people too, So let's get together. Uh, we'll
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: get that Langton, guy that I didn't like at all.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: This shows you how much I'm coming. With my hat
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: in hand, he can act as the mediator. The baron said,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: here's what we want. Uh, we'll call it the Article
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: of Barons and handed that to Langton, and Langton said,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: all right, I gotta whip this into something that that
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: John is going to actually live with. And so he
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: drafted this initial document which included a lot of the
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: stuff from the Charter of Liberties that dealt with a
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: lot of this the you know, the laws that were
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: sort of on the books, but also had some had
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: some big ideas, like you were talking about about just
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: general rights at birth of humans. And they met, uh
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: ask Lisa Simpson where they met Running me Running Mead
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: June ninet, twelve fifteen, and they signed over fealty to John,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: and they made copies of this thing, applied that Royal
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: seal on it, and that was it. It was the
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Magna Carta, even though they didn't call it the Magna
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Carta yet. No, And um, I was like, why Running Meat.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: It turns out there's actually a few reasons why Running
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Mead had a history of being an ancient kind of
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: council meeting spot. Um it was also nice place. Well
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: it was a boggy meadow, um, which is another reason
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: why I was chosen, because it would be a terrible
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: place to fight a war battle. And then also like
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: you could see basically in every direction from it, so
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: you couldn't do a surprise at tack either. Wanting to
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: fight in a boggy meadow. I thought it might have
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: been like a really nice picturesque thing, but it was
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: done out in the middle of nowhere where you could
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: see everything. Yeah. Well I get the impression that it
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: was picturesque still as well, but um that if you
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: had a lot of strategic strategic um assets to it too. Okay,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: well that makes sense. Um. Alright, well I guess well,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: before we take our break, let's just talk about the
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: fact that this first Magna Carta that was not even
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: called the magnet CARTI yet was ignored. John ignored it.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Uh innocent. The three said it's not even legal. Um.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: John was under durest to agree to this thing, and
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: then a real full civil war called the First Barons
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: War broke out and John died of dysenteri in twelve sixteen.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: It's kind of what ended the First Barons War. But
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: this is all sort of preamble to the real Magna Carta,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in just a sec stuff with
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Joshua John. All right, Chuck, So well, well, let's talk
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: a second about how the magnet Carta was applied shortly
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: after John died of dysenterry um. But first you have
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: to we should talk a little bit about like what
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: it actually looked like originally, because like you said, it
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: wasn't even what we think of the magnet Carta today.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: It had a lot of stuff in it that has
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with nobody alive today. There is like
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: the basically the King's strong arm guy who went around
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: and like extracted money into orchard nobles. If they didn't
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: pay up, he and his cohorts are named specifically by
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: name as like they gotta go. There was stuff about,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: you know, if you were a widow, you didn't have
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: to marry immediately, but if you did end up wanting
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: to get married later, you still had to go to
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: the king. There was about like land inheritance, all sorts
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: of stuff like that that really would have mattered to
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: a baron, uh, you know, a noble a noble person,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: a nobleman or a woman in England at the time,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: there were concessions. But then, like you said, there were
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: big ideas too. But if you were like the average
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: peasant working the land of surf, working in the land,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: in the feudal system in England at the time, you
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: could not have made heads or tails of this because
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: number one it was written in abbreviated Latin, which would
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: have made it very hard to understand. But the number
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: two it was also written as one long I think
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: about three thousand word paragraph. Yeah that I don't even
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: think have punctuation in it either. It was it was
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: written like it was you know, by mad mad man. Yeah,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: it's like written on a big long pieced roll of
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: toilet paper and that was rolled up. Uh it is
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: now like if you read the Magna Carta now it
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: is separated it into uh different clauses. But this was
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: not the case at first. This happened years later. Who
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: was the historian It was William Blackstone in the late
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: eighteenth century. Yeah, basically said like I gotta organize this thing,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: like you know, this is gonna we we can't put
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the thing in museums. It's embarrassing. Yeah, like people have
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: got to be able to make heads or tails of this,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: so that that happened later on. At first it was
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: like you said, just this big long scrawl, and there
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: wasn't just one of them. It's not like you can
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: go to uh, you know, if you go to see
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence and at the archives in d C,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: like that's that's the one that's the master charge of
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: the master copy. There were thirteen known copies in twelve
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: fifteen of the Magna Carta, and there wasn't It's not
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: like they had one and then they ran it through
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the xerox machine. They just they wrote it down thirteen times.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: They're all originals. I guess it's maybe it's wrong to
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: say there isn't an original when there are thirteen originals.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: There's not a soul original. Um. Four of these have
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: survived and they're little variations because they were written by
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: hand and transcribe, but nothing that like cancels anything out
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: is just sort of you know how somebody might transcribe something,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: and they're all considered for like legit correct originals. I
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: think two of them are at the British Library of London,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: one at Salisbury Cathedral and then one at Lincoln Castle. Yes.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: And then if you go research how many Magna Carta
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: copies are there today, you'll find that there's a lot
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: more than four. And here you start to get into
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: just how muddy the history of the Magna Carta is, because,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: like you said, when they first wrote this magnet Carta,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: it wasn't exactly like what we think of magnet Carta today. Um.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: It had a lot more provisions in it that had
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: to do with the forest, and there were so many
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: things rules and regulations about how to treat the forest,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: how you can act in the forest, if you live
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: in the forest, who do you go, you know, claim
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: a grievance to that kind of stuff. That a separate
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: charter of the forest was created, Like those were basically
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: moved out, and then the document became the magnet Carta
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: that we understand it today. Um. And that was I
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: think in twelve seventeen when that finally happened. Yeah, twelve seventeen.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: The charges of the forest was moved out, and then um,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: little by little this document kept getting like adjusted, added
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: to as a new king came along. They would they
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: would basically be like I love the magnet carta, I'm
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: going to adhere to it. And slowly but surely, of
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: the next couple of decades it became accepted and respected
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: as the law of the land in England. Like it
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: was a lot more than just concessions to end the
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Civil War, of the War of the Barons. It became
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: established law in England. Yeah, and and just those words
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: are very like it's easy now to sort of not
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: think too much about what law of the land means.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: But back then that was a very big deal. And
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: that this was the first time that laws came about
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: that weren't directly from the king. Um. It wasn't royalty
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: just saying here's how everything is, everybody fall in line.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: It was the people. And albeit it was you know,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: if you were baron, you had a lot of money
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and you know, a lot of political sway, it's not
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: like it was It's not like these were the surfs,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: you know, like slinging hay in the hay fields that
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: had any kind of input. Um. So we do need
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: to point that out. But they were not royalty. So
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: it was a big deal for the very first time. Um,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: actual um subjects of the king were weighing in and
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: and successfully weighing in on on what the law should be. Yeah.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: And there were they were like the seeds to things
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: that would become really important later, like the idea that
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: um a council of barons I think twenty five barons
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: um could could basically hold the king to account. And
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: it was like the seed that eventually grew into the parliament. Um.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: There was another one. There were there were some other
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: really big ones in there that that over time. One
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: of the things that happened over time, I guess, Chuck,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: is it got extended to everybody in England, not just
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: what they called freemen which were landed nobility. Uh. It
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: got extended to everybody in England at least by twelve
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: ninety seven when it was encoded into law in England.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: At the latest by like the Freds of fifteenth century. Um,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: it became just commonly understood that like those those rights,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: those laws in the Magna Carta applied to everybody in England. Yeah,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was like this sacred document. And again
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: when you you kind of had no choice when you
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: came in there as a new king. Um, you may
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: try and alter and change some things, but you couldn't
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: refute the Magna Carta. At that point it was it
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: became too important, even if other laws superseded it later
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: on to the point where its actual laws in the
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Magna Carta were rendered useless in a lot of circumstances.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: It was a symbol, uh, And it had this, like
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Ed said, it had this really powerful aura about it
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: because it was the first laws not decreed directly from
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: the King's voice. So you couldn't go back any anymore.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: You could only move forward, even if it was even
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: if it was by tiny increments were talking about, um,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: I mean the four hundreds. You know, this is a
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: long time ago, and it's gonna take a long time.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: And Ed points out that, like we, humanity has always
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: been creeping towards more rights for more people, uh, even
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: if it's very slow and very clumsy at times. And
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: the Magna Carta was sort of the foundation on what
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of the modern rights that we have sort
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: of lay. Yeah. Like, there's there's a couple that are
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: actually still in English law. UM. Part of one the
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: first clause which gives freedom to the church, UM number thirteen,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: which basically says that UM towns and municipalities have the
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: ability to decide their own matters like electing a mayor
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And then the big ones. The
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: two big ones that were really huge when they were
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: codified in the Magna Carta back in twelve fifteen was
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Um Claus thirty nine, which basically says that you uh
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: cannot be just thrown in prison, you can't be exiled,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: you can't have your land taken away. None of those
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: things can happen to you unless it's through the lawful
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: judgment of your peers or the law of the land.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: So it took away the king's arbitrary ability to throw
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: somebody in the dungeon until they starved to death because
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: they didn't pay him some bribe that he wanted. That
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: was enormous, and that today constitutes due process under the law.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: And then also habeas corpus, where you can't just like
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: put someone in prison for no reason or never giving
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: a reason, and those are that's really huge, and that
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: is where directly where we we get that from an
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: America in the West. And the other one is um
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Clause forty. There's you you cannot sell and you also
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: cannot deny or delay the rights that people have as citizens.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: You you, you can't do that. So that was a
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: big deal. And then the idea that the magnet carta
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: um directly lead to the Bill of Rights um is
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: not an understatement at all. At the Constitutional Convention, when
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: they were thinking of whether they needed any kind of
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: magnet carta shout out because they had a mythical quality
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: in America by this time too um to kind of
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: keep the King of England at bay. Uh. They thought, well,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: we're not gonna have a king here. We don't need
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: a magnet carta. And somebody very wisely pointed out, no,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: we don't have a king, but the government still acts
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: at the behest of the majority of the people. What
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: if the majority of the people try to infringe on
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: the rights of others? We need something, And so they
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: came up with the Bill of Rights directly descended from
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: the magnet carta. So it is very much an important
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: document for surely still relevant, still relevant as ever. So
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: everybody go out and get a magnet carta copy, maybe
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: a poster or a T shirt and rocket ouably, do
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: you got anything else? I got nothing else? All right? Well,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Chuck said he's got nothing else. Than that means it's
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: time for a listener mail, I needna call this kind
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: correction on Jaclopes. I can't believe we walked right past this. Hey, guys,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: a long time listener and super fan of the show.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like we're friends since I listen to you
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: every day as I get ready for work and very
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: much look forward to your conversations. So as your friend,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I can say that absolutely love all your content, but
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: found myself cringing throughout the Jackalope episode. You see, I
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: am a the historic preservation officer for the City of
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Las Vegas, Nevada, and while the jacaloplore is not prevalent
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: throughout Nevada, I still feel the need to weigh on
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: a bit of misunderstanding about our Southwestern fauna. The jack
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: and jackalopes is for the jack rabbit, of course, very
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: large species of hair, not a rabbits in the cute
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: little cottontail rabbit. The lope is for the pronghorn antelope,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: not a deer. You guys, these are two different families, gentlemen.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: The clue was right there in the name of antelope.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: How do we miss that it's not a jack of deer?
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: I think we were so jazzed about even talking about
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: jack loops that we stopped seeing the forest for the trees.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Maybe so. However, a prong horn is not a true
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: antelope even, but that's another story. And further, prong horn
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: have horns, hence the name, which are affixed to the skull,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: which of course means that put horns on the jack rabbit.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: The prong horn must be deceased as well. However, dear
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: antlers shed annually with no harm done to the deer.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: You can walk in any area where dear live and
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: find antlers on the ground. Therefore, deer does not necessarily
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: have to die to give up as antlers. While there
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: are certain yeah, that's good, while there are certainly our
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: taxidermy rabbits and hairs with deer antlers affixed to their heads.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: A jacklobe by definition as a jack rabbit with prong
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: horn horns. I just wanted to give a little gentle
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: correction on all that, but in no way diminishes my
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: love for the show. Thank you for all you do,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: all my best. Dr Diane ce C Brand, Historic Preservation Officer,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Las Vegas, Nevada. Excellent. Dr C. Brant. Dr Diane ce
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: c Brand, Okay C. C. Brand, m thank you Dr
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: C Brand, We appreciate that big time. Hats off to
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: you for that gentle correction. That was really something. If
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: you want to get in touch of this, like Dr
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: C Brand did, you can via email, wrap it up
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: spanking on the prong horn and send it off to
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: stuff Podcast iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know
• 47:46
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• 47:49
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• 47:52
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