Latest / Between The Rounds Official / Ryan O'Rourke: The Silent Assassin's Road from Dublin to Madison Square Garden
Transcript
- Sarah: Welcome to Between the Rounds. This is a very special episode I'm recording today. This person was brought to a gym at just six months old and was hitting the pads by the age of four. Now he made his pro debut during COVID and traveled five different countries before making his way to the U.S. He is now 13 and 0 and yet outside of the UK and Ireland, not many people know his name. He is Ryan O'Rourke, the Silent Assassin, and he is trained by his father, Steven here out of O'Rourke's boxing gym in Inchicore in Dublin. Yes, it is the same gym that I get to represent and train with during my time here in Ireland. Now, Ryan will go up against Alex Vargas on April 17th at Madison Square Gardens, also live on ESPN on the undercard for Most Valuable Promotions, which is a huge night of boxing for women's boxing also. it's an honor for me to be able to share this moment with Ryan because it's my first in-person episode for Between the Rounds and someone I get to share a chapter of my boxing journey with. So welcome Ryan to Between the Rounds. very much. wanted to be the first in person. There we go. You are special. I do want to take it back a little bit on some of your early memories of being in a boxing gym as a child. The first sort of the memories I have is just being with me on the pads. I have pictures of just me and me Dad in like a hall room. a community center. Yeah, type thing Just hitting pads, rolling, slipping, punching pads. Yeah. That's the first proper memories I have of actually boxing outside of my own house. How soon had he put head gear on you and you were in sparring? ⁓ The first memory I had, sparring was there a weightlifting gym, bodybuilder gym, and it was a dead old school gym. And just off the side of it, there was like a tin roof shed. And then there was a couple of bags and there was a ring in it as well. And I remember just sparring this dead, tall kid. Cause I, although I might look tall now when I was, when I was a child, I was really, I was always one of the smallest. I was always dead small. I remember a head guard stuck on me and then looking across the ring and there was this, just looking up and there was this big tall fella and I was thinking. Oh my God. then bang, the bell rang and it just kind of kicked in and I was slipping and punching and I was doing all sorts and I was actually one of the, like, it was a great memory for me. came back and I remember talking to Ma, I was buzzing. You did your pop your cherry. That's awesome. Yeah, that was, that's like the first memory I have of Sparring and yeah, it was a great memory that I've held with me to this day. Your relationship with your dad. At what point did you realize that that was transitioning from father son to fighter coach relationship and what did that feel like for you? The time it really switched from father son to coach and boxer was I'd say maybe 18 or 19. And then it was like, really had to choose, did I really want to continue boxing or did I just want to continue as a hobby? When I was 18, I felt a bit more of a switch to like this is business now. I wasn't just like. When I would go play football and I'd do it for the enjoyment of it but I'd go boxing as a child. I did it for the enjoyment of it more than This is what we have to do. is your path. But as regard to the father coaching, as a child, I always just enjoyed going to the gym. So I never really that. was like, ⁓ that's me coach. was like, that's just me dad. He's coming with me to the gym. That didn't really, change until I hit the edge of 18, 19, when it's like right. It's a serious now. You get hurt. If you're going to do it, you're going to do it right. What edge do feel it gives you over others here in Ireland, in particular having your dad in your I think that nobody knows you better than your own parents type thing. Obviously you can have a great relationship with your coach, but when they've literally raised you. It like, there's no one that knows you better. And you can obviously have maybe some discussions that you couldn't have with people outside of your family. Right. You couldn't have with people that just happened to in situations, certain situations, which are true life, boxing situations, but actual life situations. I said, my dad's coached me since I'm six years of age. He knows you? There's probably a handful of fights where my dad hasn't been in the corner. So we've literally been through everything. We've seen it all. We've been through every sort of good scenario, bad scenario, and we kind of just know each other down to a T now. Your dad took me by surprise too, in terms of him caring a lot about your mental headspace, really understanding how you think, how you approach problem solving, all of that. And that caught me by surprise because I thought it was going to be a lot just more technical work. And when you think about the success of your relationship with your dad, right, we've seen in boxing, the father son relationship can be quite toxic. And we've seen some versions of that where, father is overpowering or just not giving the freedom to that relationship. What would you say makes your relationship with your dad so successful? when we go home, I'd kind of make a thing where it's just like, you leave the boxing at the door. I like talking about boxing, but when we go home, I don't like talking too much about my boxing. I'd maybe like to talk about some of the fights that happened that weekend. For example, Chisora Wilder or stuff like that. I like talking about the sport of boxing, but I like... It's really separate stuff and put them into sections. Like when I go to gym, that's when I train. I don't know if you know, not so much. don't like to like go around and spend most of my time talking. I only get business done, but when I go home, that's when I, that's when I and stuff. I don't like to talk about too much of what we're going to do here, what we're going to do in the fight. he respects that. Obviously sometimes like we'd have disagreements and stuff like that. It's only natural between. father on his own and a coach and a fighter as well. think the distinct differences of where you are and when to discuss and talk about stuff is a real key to success around that. That's brilliant. I haven't heard much about your amateur background and kind of the foundation that was built through that. And I had a pretty good year, think in the last year, me only last year as an amateur was me first year at elite level. Some good lads beat me. The Belgian number one and Aidan Wash was the last person that me as an amateur and he went on to win the Olympic bronze. So we both shared the ring with the Walsh's- That's amazing. Yeah, I'd say me last year as an amateur was maybe my most successful. I never really had aspirations of continuing. You obviously entered into the pro game early on, right? What was that conversation with your dad? I just want, I never dreamed of going to the Olympics a kid. So I love watching the amateurs. John Joe Nevin and Katie Taylor. I always loved watching them. I loved the box like them one day. a kid, like watching boxing, always seen, my dad used to always watch Ricky Hatton to get up. My dream know, have you ever seen Floyd Mayweather come to ring and you'd have 10 blokes behind him holding 50 belts. ⁓ So that was always my dream to have a lot of big fellas behind me holding every single belt. You'll see the IBF, the WBC, the WBA, WBO, every single belt standing behind me with the ring announcer calling out your name. The undefeated, undisputed. That was my dream. vision. I said, Still am chasing that today. But that was always my dream as a kid to have them big nights in under the bright lights as a professional. When you entered into the pro side of boxing, what do you think people underestimate most about the business side of the pro game? I a lot. as you said, it's not pro boxing. It's not a sport. It's a business. But like there's a hell of a lot of fighters out there who maybe aren't. Technically as good as some others because they can generate a lot of money because they can sell a lot of tickets and because they can put bums on seats, they get a hell of a lot more opportunities than maybe the lads that are more skillful. More skillful. Totally. It's like getting kicked out of the house and it's just like, right, you have to fend for yourself now. First of all, if you had to go and find your own manager, had to go and find your own promoter, you had go and find your own trainer, then you have to... sell your own tickets, then you promote yourself to the boxing fans. And maybe a lot of people don't realize this when they turn over that hell of a lot of work. It's a whole job in itself. Along with trying to support the money you need to actually support. Cause it's like you're self investing for the first number of years. Yeah. it's a very, it's a very difficult job is what I'd call it. Yeah. Especially at the start cause people look at the big bright lights and the big nights and Anthony Joshua walking out in front of 80,000 people when they're all singing his name. And see the top 1 % as opposed to... That's the 1 % of boxing. People don't see, the small hall shows all the graft you go through and all the money you spend to get there. Now that we know that you didn't turn pro during COVID, but you did your first, you had like five fights in your first year, is that right? I did. So like you did compete during COVID, which was unheard of for a lot of pro fighters. Some, you know, took a back seat for a bit. What was that like for you? My first three fights were actually all in the space of seven weeks. I had turned over, I think it was like the first pro of 2020. And I had the first fight on the 30th of January. I had my next fight maybe three weeks after that, on like the 21st of February. And then I had me third fight on like the 14th March, something like that. Exactly the day after my third fight, COVID had shook. We actually nearly weren't getting home from Manchester because all the flights were getting canceled. So you had seven fights across five different countries before you hit the US. you're in like a ton of people's backyards, right? Have you got some wild stories to share around some of those experiences? maybe my 4th fight was a bit of a... bit of a baptism of fire. was fighting a lot called Sunni Martinez. Again, that was my first fight in the COVID, but Spain had different sorts of restrictions. So I was fighting in big basketball stadium and they still have fans allowed, didn't they? So they had fans every second seat, but there still like maybe up to like 2000 fans there. ⁓ has lived in Spain for a very long time. So he had a good fan base there. So he had sold a couple of hundred tickets. I didn't notice until he there. ⁓ And he was decent, he had a decent enough record, but he had only fought prospects. So he had beaten a few prospects as well. So he was coming in. And there was a risk for you there. I'm pretty confident. Like it was my first, sixth rounder. And I was away from home in his turf ,say, backyard, though he's from a different country. He came out and I was going, had been in like September in Spain. So was still like 25, 26, 27 degrees. I mean, fighting in this glass box stadium that had like a glass. glass roof and glass kind of panels on the side. And I was, I was fighting them at like eight o'clock at night. So was still like, remember coming out in the force, we're at two rounds and I felt dead good and I was boxing great. then next minute I had rocked him and I went for it. And the first time I proper, went for a stoppage, but I didn't get it. And then the heat just absolutely zapped me. And I was, and then I got back to the corner after the second. Were your legs gone? what, what? Yeah. Okay. I was thinking, right, I'm in, I'm in this shit here. You're either going to have to stand toe to toe with this fella or... just kind of put the hands up and walk them down. And that was my first real experience of professional to bite down the gum shield and dig deep and being ⁓ against home crowd. And the first time in my career that I'd been booed walking out into a stadium. I was thinking, ⁓ shit, like, here we go. But yeah, that was a great experience. That sort of stuff like stands to you in the long run. know, instead of maybe I have a different path to others that have like the opposite effect than that in the four, three, four, five fights where they're walking up to their own crowd. You're kind of just like, everything's in your favor. everything was maybe against me in that situation. Yeah. After that then, the next couple of years was a little bit more reserved, I guess, in the amount of fights that you had. I've heard you mentioned that you've been called kind of the forgotten man. What did that feel like for you? was hard to get to America during COVID times. I picked up a couple of injuries as well. And then I was just finding it hard to get fights. I was having a lot of fights all through. And I just felt like I was training away and training away and I was putting all this effort in and nothing was happening. After coming off such the back up. of a successful first year in professional boxing, having such a fast track and had won Prospect of the Year, and coming off the back of this. And then all of a sudden it just felt like everything just stopped. And for me, I was doing everything the same in the gym. was still working the same. I was still working as hard. I was looking around and looking at all these other lads get opportunities. I was looking at these lads that had started after me. do a maybe pushing on, but maybe four or five fights ahead of me at this point. And I was just, I started to get really disheartened with it and stuff like that. But yeah, as I said, that's the way I felt at the time. That's tough. It's really, really tough, especially when you're putting in the work and you're like, what's happening around me? You but you stayed the course and you know, there's some exciting stuff ahead right now for you. What has building the fan base in the U.S. been like? you always get support from America especially New York with such a big Irish community. the Paramount as well, the Paramount is actually one of my favorite places to box. think it reminds me a little bit of places like York Hall where they're small, you get about two or three thousand people in them. Balconies are kind of hanging over the rings. you're in the midst of a fight and you can feel the crowd, can feel the roar and the fights get like start to heat up. can really feel the crowds start to heat up. So I enjoy that. So you feed off the energy there. I enjoy being in the chaos. Yeah. Well, that's just like, that's just how I like to be. And there's mad stuff going on around me. Even though I can feel Cam in the moment, like I kind of love I love that feeling. So your dad grew up in Manchester and then spent some time in the US and then obviously set up shop here. How do you feel like that's shaped the way you're coached? I feel like it's had a major impact because I feel like he just have one sort of style. He has a mix of style. I feel like that comes out in how I box as well. have that Manchester intensity and fitness and aggressiveness. And then he has that. He has a little bit of mix of of of American style. then obviously over recent years, he's picked up the, the, the Irish style as well. And it's kind of like a blend of all them three all mixed into one. And I feel like it's the perfect blend because although you can be a master of one trade, I feel like as a professional, if you want to go far and you want to fight over the 10 or 12 round period, you're going to have to. All different aspects of your game. You're going to have to. boxing on the inside, box on the outside you're going to have to show your fitness, you're going to have to show your mental strength, you're going to have to show all sorts of the whole sport of boxing. So I couldn't get to spend the perfect blend. Yeah. Yeah. No, he's awesome. Like truly, I always say he's one of the greatest coaches I've ever met for sure. In terms of your camps, you almost split your time right between here and Manchester for sparring. How do you feel like that has really helped you develop and level you up from being able to spar against British and European champions? as a fighter and I feel like going over there with the likes of the British champions and European champions, being such a big pool of fighters, get such a variety of different styles. you adapt the different situations So it really benefits you. when you eventually do go and fight in these different countries against different styles, it's nothing that you've never seen before. It's something that you're like, right, I've experienced this before. It's nothing new, know. you're not panicking. In terms of strategy and tactics in preparation for some of your fights, how specific does it get between you and your dad in terms of game planning? I don't like to get too specific on game plans and stuff. Obviously we will go over stuff, but I like to concentrate on me because I feel like I'm good enough to the point where if I get everything that I've done right, then that should just do the rest for me. That should just take over. I feel like you can get caught up too much in it. what someone else does good or what they do bad because they get in the ring and they can do something completely different. I have me, myself, I probably have never boxed the same way twice. feel like I'm always developing as a fighter. So every time you see me, I feel like I'm a better fighter than it was the last time. Your style is so versatile. you can fight long range, mid range inside. your back hand, I wish I had the range or the delivery that you have on your back hand. And it sounds like it's very much built on your own strengths and like making sure that you are leveling up based on all the different sparring partners that you've had and, putting all the pieces of the puzzle together that way. Yeah, definitely. think that's just the way I kind of view life. And then that's what kind of comes out in how, how me style is like, and you like to be a jack of all trades. You like to be able to do a bit of everything. Cause when you get in the ring and you come up against someone, someone might be a good inside fighter, might be a good long range fighter. You can't actually adapt yourself or your style to that. You're going to get found out. While I'm training, I'll think of every different scenario could happen in a ring. I will equally divide each part of each session down to like all different aspects of the sport. So when I'm in there, I can do whatever's needed. My favourite fighter. And I always say this before everybody jumped on the bandwagon was Terence Crawford. I've watched them from back in the days against Ricky Burns and watched him back since like 2013, 2014. And I've always loved the way he can just do absolutely everything. Cause no matter what's needed, he can switch it on, switch it on. It makes it look effortless. So I've, I may not look like a box of sand, but I've loosely based my style off of Terence Crawford being able to do absolutely. everything. And that's interesting in that you brought that to your dad and you and your dad have kind of worked through different components of a Terence Crawford style and he's integrated that into your training, right? So that's like also him, your dad, he's actually hearing your perspective on things. Exactly. Yeah. I think two minds are better than one. Like obviously we can discuss works for the both of us and obviously what works ⁓ myself because what they say boxing's subjective. There's no right or wrong way to do it. ⁓ It's what you believe that matters. have to believe that. To the confidence. You to believe what way you're boxing is the best way to box, whether it is or it isn't. You have to believe it is. Because even if there is a better way to box, if you don't believe that that's the right way, it's not going to work for you because the second something gets hard or something goes wrong in the ring, you're going to completely just evaporate ⁓ any of plan you had. lead to the bottom. you start to lose trust in your corner with that. Exactly. Yeah. So you need to fully believe and trust in what you're doing. And if you and your trainer can morph the two minds into one. Yeah. That's the best way to be. I've seen some of your sessions here in terms of where you push yourself mentally. Is there any sort of like more visualization work that you do or is it all through kind of the act ⁓ the physical aspect of how you're pushing yourself? I'd say more through the physical aspect, but the mental aspect would come down to maybe the last week or two. ⁓ when like all sorts of scenarios start to play through your head. What if this happens? What if that happens? What if... What am I going to do if he does this? What am I going to do? So them sort of scenarios will be playing through my head, but they don't really start to come into play until I get a specific sort of fight or opponent. And then it's like up until the last week. But as regards to training, I just think every different scenario that I could possibly be in a ring and I'll push myself to the absolute brink now and that I've covered. All aspects of And your dad's sessions too, like from the conditioning to the tech work to the track work, like fucking hell, that man knows how to design really, really tough sessions. They're tough, yeah, they are tough. And well, as like that boxing's tough. So like there's no better way to train, I believe. When you're in deep waters in the middle of a fight, Say your dad is calling out something that you're not quite seeing in the heat of a moment or in the midst of chaos. How do you navigate through that? Your dad is trying to call something out and you're not quite grasping it. Has that ever happened in live in a fight? Maybe not in an actual fight, maybe in sparring, It's happened. All you can do is try it, as I said, and if it it works. it doesn't, I might maybe not ignore the tactic, but I might have a bit of selective hearing when it comes to it. Obviously, not always going to get things right. You're not always going to get things wrong. You try it and if it works for you, do it again if it doesn't. I've seen you live this lifestyle through and through, regardless of whether you have a fight confirmed or not. What drives that level of discipline in you and how do you maintain that type of momentum? think me dad's had a big part to play in that. He's installed the way of living, boxing. You can't be a part timer if you're going to do it right. And I'm that sort of bloke as well. I'm a hundred or I'm nothing like, I enjoy training anyway. I enjoy the kind of mental, yeah, the stimulation. think I enjoyed that. after there's no better feeling than after a good training session that I am, I then able to sit down and, and I'm relaxed, but not feel like bad about sitting down and relaxing. Yeah. Cause you've the work. Okay. So April 17th is going to be a huge night for you, right? You're taking on Alex Vargas. How did the MVP opportunity come about and when did you first find out about it? Me and Alex were actually originally supposed to box on the 28th of February, but that kind of fell through. Then kind of all of us out of nowhere, we got the call that MVP wanted to have on their show. And that was news to me. That was just like, they had just recently signed the ESPN deal. It's my first chance to kind of fight on live terrestrial I was buzzing to have that. an opportunity. Then MVPW are making their US debut. They've got the fight card this weekend in London. And you've heard me talk a lot about MVP investing hugely in women's boxing. For and it's a huge thing for me to see you on this undercard. What does it mean for you to be part of such a big thing for women's boxing and women's sport in general? Brilliant. It's obviously great to see the sport is growing, not just women, but ⁓ if women's sport is growing, that means boxing in general is growing. It's grown to a wider audience. ⁓ young boys now it's young girls that are coming up wanting to be boxers. It's great to have eyes on it. I'm getting an opportunity now that women's boxing is so big. it's only benefiting me in the long run that MVP are coming, coming in and supporting women's boxing. Another moment that we do share. I've managed to fight at my MSG twice for the Golden Gloves, obviously in the amateur side of it. It's a real pinch me moment. Have you visualized what that's going to feel like for you and what that walkout is going to be like? I've previously envisioned that because one of the lads from the gym, Cian McMahon, he had fought there against a star boxing lad. I think that was on the Joe Smith Jr. and Beterbiev undercard I had been there and I actually been in the corner. So I have nearly done the walkout. Well, I envisioned myself when I was in the back room and I was thinking, I'm going to do this one day. I'm going to fight at Madison Square Garden. So I've been envisioning that literally ever since. So it's just a great to finally get the opportunity here and I hope one day I may be even headlining my own show at Madison Square Garden. awesome would that be? Well, when we look at the 140 pound division, right, globally, and then obviously locally, let's start globally. So you've got Shakur Stevenson, you've got Dalton Smith, you've got Gary Russell. And then you have Alberto Puello about to take on Dalton Smith's upcoming. think Keeshawn Davis has moved up to welterweight now. Where do you see yourself amongst that and who catches your eye with it on the global scale? Obviously Shakur Stevenson, he's the ultimate operator. He's so po, he's slick, he does everything right. In my eyes, he'd be the number one at 40, 140 now. But yeah, like they're the sort of lads that I'd love to be sharing a ring with. I have to get through the likes of Alex Vargas and I've... maybe a few more steps before I am in and around them sort of names. But they're the sort of guys that you want to be in the ring with. Not too far off. I hope after I get the win in this one, I get some good opportunities. I'll get some good wins and you'll be putting Ryan O'Rourke in the mix with them names. And then home soil, obviously this weight division is starting to heat up because you've got Piercer Leary, who's just won a world title as well. And then Sean McComb and Gary Cully, I believe is now playing in that space. What would it mean to get a match up with one of those? That'd be brilliant. Like I said, like you want to be at the top of Irish boxing, you to take on the top lads So if them opportunities arise, I would willing to take them. looking at the likes of the shows that was in the 3 arena there, they were brilliant. Just to be a part of them and to be in them. all Irish dust up against one of them lads. headline in a show like that would be something that are made of. Yes. So a win on ESPN at Madison Square Garden sounds fantastic. What does Ryan want to achieve by the end of the year? Activity, activity, activity. Pretty sure if you go through single podcast we've done for the past four years, said at some point. Activity, activity. Well, this is first for Americans, Between the rounds, he's saying activity. Activity is all I want. Yeah. That's what I'm looking for. Cause then they can build momentum and momentum. can start and get a contender for those world titles that you're deserving of. now, what does Ryan O'Rourke at 30 look like? World champion. Yes. A couple of closing questions for you, Ryan. For a sport that rewards people for being loud and audacious, your nickname carries a little bit of a different perspective, the silent assassin. What do you want people to know about your fighting style? My fighting style? is describe myself as a jack of all trades. But what I do like to do is give the fans value for money. I won't just sit back and maybe jab me way to a points victory. If I feel like I can get the crowd involved, I can push a fight. I'll give you a value for money. I'll give you an exciting fight. That's what I like. Because me as a boxing fan, although I do respect the purists, if you are a boxing purist, fair play, but you have to give them a bit. can't just... You want them to come back for more, right? can't just cruise for the sake of cruising sake. If you can push it, push it. Give the fans what you Now I've noticed and this might be just something that I picked up on the array of colored Nike socks that you have. What's the story behind it? Or is there a story behind them? That's not right, just like Nike socks. Nike, he needs a sponsorship. Nike, if you're watching, me up. You should see this array. It's pretty cool. Okay, final question for you. What is the biggest lesson boxing has taught you? Maybe discipline, maybe mental strength. think that the mental strength that boxing has given me will carry me and has carried me through many tough moments in life and it will carry me through the rest of my life that I feel like maybe other sports might not give it a might but something about combat sports where you have to just be like mentally you have to be an animal. there's no, there's no hiding from. your weaknesses. Exactly. and you've got no choice but to confront it. You have to ⁓ stand up and face them. I think that's definitely, yeah, that's definitely helped me through some moments in my life. Yeah. ⁓ would say you're probably one the most mentally resilient people. think you just suck it up and get on with it. ⁓ Well, what else can you do? can cry about it, but the situation is not going to go anywhere. So you just get on with it. The best way to pass it is straight through it. That's only way. of my favorite sayings, the magic you're looking for is in the work that you're avoiding. Exactly. And that's usually where it's at. Ryan, thank you so much for joining me on Between the Rounds, our first in-person episode. in-person guest. do want to share a huge shout out to Frankie and the team at Mendez who have welcomed Ryan into the Mendez family as well. So hopefully he might be able to take a trip up to see them when he's back in New York as well. Yeah. Thanks very much for having me and the shout out to all my sponsors and all the people in America that have been there, support me so far. Hopefully come on. You'll see me soon. Thank you. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks very much, Sarah.