Latest / The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast / IS THE HARBAUGH ERA BROKEN?! | Chargers Drop to 0-2 vs Raiders

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IS THE HARBAUGH ERA BROKEN?! | Chargers Drop to 0-2 vs Raiders · The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast

0:03
Who's got it better than that? No way! Robert
0:06
is being chased, thrown on the lawn, and it is
0:10
caught! Touchdown! Keenan Allen! What a great
0:13
goal! My goal is not to break, my goal is to
0:15
make you harder to break. Number six! Number
0:19
six! Suitshack by Joey Bosa! Nineteen -yard touchdown!
0:24
Nineteen -yard touchdown! Back off at the eight
0:26
-yard line by Derwin G. Session speed, takes
0:29
a shot downfield, has Nighton, PUNCH! Grab your
0:35
lunchboxes and go attack this day with an enthusiasm
0:38
unknown to mankind! Who's got it better than
0:47
us? Well, the answer's 31 other fucking teams,
0:53
Jim. Sorry, I've sworn already. We're five seconds
0:57
in. We better get the parental advisory sticker
1:00
up. Welcome to the Thundered and Undercharged
1:03
podcast. We don't have Andy, he's overseas, but
1:05
we'll be back next week. You do have Alistair,
1:08
you do have the teach and we're going to have
1:12
a therapy session here today. I don't care if
1:15
we have 3 ,000 viewers like last week or if we
1:18
have three. Hit like, hit subscribe. Jack, they
1:22
say week one is a liar. But is it? Chargers lose
1:26
26 -14 in week one to a team who had a top three
1:29
pick in the draft and the Chargers lose 26 -14.
1:33
Same score in week two to the team with the top
1:36
overall pick in the draft. Mate, what happened?
1:41
Come with me and you'll see a world of pure and
1:47
utter shit. Oh my God. I feel like I'm in Willy
1:50
Wonka's factory and I'm drowning in a river of
1:53
freaking chocolate. I'm Augustus Gloop. Save
1:56
me. Save me. Like the whole freaking team. Yeah,
2:00
this is rough. This is really, really rough.
2:02
And I did not know how to feel for this podcast
2:06
because I have been wallowing in a negative stupor.
2:11
because the mistakes that we've seen through
2:15
two weeks, I cannot remember seeing a team, a
2:19
Chargers team in recent memory like this, maybe
2:22
at the end of Staley's tenure. So. Yep. Hopefully
2:26
this will be cathartic Alistair. Hopefully it'll
2:28
be cathartic for you listeners as well. Uh, where
2:30
do you want to, where do you want to start this
2:34
overview? Let's start by calling it out for what
2:38
this was an absolute catastrophe. It was shambolic,
2:44
some of the sloppiest football that you will
2:46
ever see. We'd hope that in week one, the unforced
2:50
errors and the sloppy penalties were just the
2:53
team knocking off some of us, the guys who didn't
2:55
play in the pre -season. Jack, this game was
2:58
arguably worse. Yeah. And the thing that probably
3:03
scares me the most from this game after doing
3:05
the TDU film today, check it out on X listeners.
3:09
It didn't really get better throughout the game
3:12
on offense. So let's talk about the offense first,
3:15
because I think we want to start with some anger.
3:17
Maybe for the defense, we'll have some slightly
3:19
better things to say. We'll find out. But with
3:22
the offense, Jack, the way this game starts,
3:25
were you like me? I like the defense kind of
3:28
came out to play and the offense. I watched the
3:30
first drive. I watched the second drive and I
3:32
just thought, Oh man, this is, this is the same
3:35
as last week. We're in real trouble early in
3:38
this game. Yeah. And of course, Dicker hits the
3:43
crossbar from 58 and that kind of sums up the
3:47
day for the offense. It was a promising first
3:51
possession, I thought, but that no scoreboard
3:53
reward and leaving the Raiders, well, I think
3:57
he, I think he missed from about 58. So in and
3:59
around midfield, um, you know, the defense did
4:02
turn up and that first quarter was just pretty
4:04
shambolic from both sides. Let's be honest. But
4:07
you know, I sort of had the game in six turning
4:10
points. The, the missed Dick across bar was one
4:13
of them. We'll talk about the defense later,
4:15
but that Tucker 40 RTD. And then gay makes it
4:21
from 59 to rub salt on the wounds a yard more
4:23
than Dicker. So that was my third turning point.
4:26
Um, Gadsden with the 10 yard TD, that was very
4:29
exciting. We got 14, 10. Um, but that did you
4:32
kind of believe at that point, Jack, were you
4:34
like me at that point? I got super excited, almost
4:37
knocked over my little table and be a punch in
4:39
the air swearing at the TV. I thought we can,
4:41
we're going to win this game. We can win it from
4:43
here. Yeah, but it was very short -lived, right?
4:47
Because the fifth turning point was that, um,
4:50
was the, was the white 13 yard touchdown. And
4:53
I think it was 43 seconds from the fumble to
4:56
the white touchdown. So like it was just a catastrophe.
5:02
And then obviously at the very end, the Hampton
5:04
fumble to pretty much ice the game. Uh, it was
5:06
terrible. But in those six moments, We were,
5:10
we just weren't good enough. We just weren't
5:12
good enough. Maybe the Gadsden Alistair, the
5:15
10 yard TD was exciting, but the rest of it,
5:19
pretty, pretty rough. There are these glimpses
5:22
of what it's supposed to look like. Three times
5:26
in a game, you might see Herbert hit, like drop,
5:30
drop back, throw it straight away in rhythm,
5:33
usually to the flat. to Najoku for nine yards
5:37
or to Keaton Mitchell. And you think this is
5:39
what the office is meant to look like. The ball
5:41
was out early before the receivers turned and
5:43
he catches it in stride. But we're seeing it
5:46
just way too few and far between at the moment.
5:49
We're seeing the occasional bit of schematic.
5:52
I don't want to say the word brilliance because
5:54
he has not been brilliant, but we're seeing schematic
5:57
savvy getting Trey Harris open on that 50 yard
6:00
completion was clever. You're playing Trey Harris
6:03
in the slot. And you kind of got him lost across
6:06
the middle of the defense. Even that touchdown
6:08
pass you mentioned to Gadsden Jack. I know Herbert
6:11
needed to do the Houdini act and get around an
6:14
unblocked Max Crosby, but the way that was sprung
6:18
open was to, he was completely by himself in
6:20
the end zone. Are they enough for you to start
6:24
to think that the team. could kind of what this
6:27
is what it should look like or are you just are
6:29
you thinking this is just too too many errors
6:33
there's way too much the team needs to work on
6:36
No, because when you're eating a chicken breast
6:38
and you find little bits that are cooked and
6:40
you eat it, but the rest is raw, you're going
6:41
to end up vomiting anyway, mate. So as far as
6:44
I'm concerned, there's always going to be the
6:46
defense that you're playing is going to add some
6:49
bad chicken on Friday night. Yeah. Well, I did
6:52
not, but it was, it was a long weekend with my
6:55
sick daughter. But, but the, but, but what scares
6:58
me is just these constant penalties is the false
7:01
starts. You know, Trey Harris, great. You're
7:04
open on a 50 yard and, but then slaughter snaps
7:07
the ball into your leg. So, and, and, and these
7:10
errors are just so egregious and they sit with
7:13
the opposition seem to just capitalize on them.
7:16
But Alistair, can we talk about, I think we need
7:19
to now have like a memorandum or a requiem dare
7:21
we say on Justin Herbert's footwork because he
7:24
doesn't look good at all. Like this is the worst
7:26
Justin Herbert I've seen in a long time. There
7:29
are times when he's completely flat footed and
7:31
he almost looks totally confused about how to
7:34
set up his platform to throw and lucky he's got
7:37
a fairly strong arm. And so he makes some foes
7:39
look really good. We'll talk about the drops
7:41
as well in a second, but this, this change to
7:44
the footwork is really not, it just, he does
7:47
not look comfortable. And then he has this thousand
7:50
yard Vietnam war vets stare on the sideline while
7:53
Mike McDaniel's trying to talk to him. Oh my
7:57
God. What did you, what did you say on the tape
8:00
out in terms of his footwork, even on some of
8:02
the completions? Cause you, you spotted, you
8:05
said that he's actually missing open guys. So
8:08
I wonder if he's focusing so much on something
8:11
new that he's just missing these reads. I think
8:14
on the first progression, the feet are fine,
8:17
right? It's, it's being able to get to his second
8:21
and especially third read on the backside of
8:23
the play. He doesn't seem comfortable with how
8:25
to negotiate his feet to get through each read.
8:29
Now it doesn't help that the receivers aren't
8:31
always there on time or just straight up aren't
8:33
getting open. But Herbert looks especially uncomfortable
8:38
when he's having to just do your standard drop
8:40
back passing game with multiple reads, which
8:42
is why I'm a little surprised there wasn't more
8:44
play action in this game. It was down at 22 %
8:47
and I thought Maybe McDaniel could have done
8:49
more than that to get him going on some bootlegs.
8:52
The story of this game for me, Jack, was first
8:55
half, I watched it all and I was fairly sympathetic
8:57
to Justin Herbert because let's get into it.
8:59
Brennan Thompson has an egregious drop on a very
9:02
good throw. Gadsden then spoils Brennan Thompson
9:05
on the same drive, right? Spoiling is an AFL
9:08
term. He gets his hand up essentially. does a
9:11
pass breakup of his own teammate. Then Najoku
9:14
drops a ball that was not a perfect throw, but
9:17
it went to him. He drops that and it becomes
9:19
an interception. QJ drops a whole shot along
9:23
the sideline because he's scared of getting hit.
9:25
and nobody's getting open against these Raiders
9:27
cornerbacks who are actually playing pretty well.
9:30
That was all in the first half. And I kind of
9:32
don't blame Herbert at that point for thinking,
9:35
what the heck am I supposed to do when Lad McConkey's
9:38
not on the field? Because Lad would then come
9:40
off the field on a pitch count, run a beautiful
9:44
button hook, somehow catch it on third and long.
9:47
He's such a good football player. But Herbert,
9:50
I think the thing that scares me most, Jack,
9:53
The second half looked like the Herbert from
9:56
the Patriots game, where he just stopped seeing
9:59
it. He started seeing ghosts at the pocket. He
10:01
stopped trusting his protection, which actually
10:04
held up. And I've posted some on X. He's missed
10:06
two throws to QJ. I think he just doesn't want
10:08
to throw it to him anymore. He's missed Gadsden.
10:11
He's missed Trey Harris. And I think, Jack, that's
10:13
when it's actually totally fair to criticize
10:17
and ask questions about why this $50 million
10:20
a year quarterback or thereabouts. is panicking
10:23
when it's still a one score game. I thought he
10:27
was, he was a guy who was calm, intelligent,
10:30
knows it doesn't matter what's come before. What
10:32
matters is the next snap, the next play, the
10:34
whole Jim Harbour mantra. And Jack, while I'm
10:37
on it, why is Jim Harbour too afraid to call
10:43
out this bullshit in press conferences? Am I
10:47
on an island with this listeners? He is trying
10:50
to tell us That yep, the guys played with there
10:54
was no quit out there. I'm seeing great signs
10:57
We've just got to get better Is there surely
10:59
there's a time where you make some kind of comment
11:02
to say what we put out is not good enough and
11:05
You know, I'm gonna work as hard as I can to
11:07
make sure we fix it for the next game We don't
11:08
even get that out of coach. Ah, boy You do wonder
11:12
whether the whole harbor Mannerisms have have
11:16
worn very thin not only with us We, we sort of,
11:21
I reckon halfway through last year when things
11:23
started to go a little awry and it was rough.
11:26
We started maybe on this podcast to get a little
11:28
bit antsy and a little bit questionable question.
11:30
We're questioning going, is this guy actually,
11:33
is he sane? Is he compass mentis? Does he know
11:36
what's going on? But maybe he just has this whole,
11:39
I stand up there and I just act confused and
11:42
whatever, whatever. Cause I take the heat and
11:45
the pressure doesn't move onto my team. But in
11:49
some ways, the way that he's acting is actually
11:51
putting more pressure on the team because people
11:52
are now going, do you have any idea what's going
11:54
on? You know, you look at other coaches and you
11:57
look at the way that they treat press conferences.
11:59
Sometimes they just, you know, they just get
12:02
not good enough. This player was not good enough,
12:04
not good enough, not good enough. We're going
12:05
to get better. We have to get better. We just
12:07
have this whole, ah, it's on ramp. You know,
12:11
we're elevating. We're at altitude and maybe
12:13
we've just hit a bit of turbulence. All these
12:16
silly metaphors. I also question what he's actually
12:20
doing. I think we've lost a wing. I think we've
12:23
had a hijacking of the plane. It's coming down.
12:27
But what does he actually do Alistair? I don't
12:29
know what he does on game day. So is this a whole
12:31
sense that he's just let two guys under him do
12:34
whatever they want and maybe it's been the fun
12:36
loving have, you know, everything's good. We're
12:39
going to be great when realistically he's actually
12:41
missed. a lot of accountability with game prep,
12:45
with how the guys are training with how the,
12:48
the small little things. So my teachable moment
12:50
is very much about some sports psychology concepts,
12:53
but so I won't spoil that. Yep. But when you're,
12:56
when you're missing those tiny, tiny little things
12:59
and you're making those small mistakes, it compounds
13:03
and it compounds and it compounds. So I can maybe
13:06
see why harbor is not coming out and being hard
13:09
ass, but where's the harbor from San Fran. Where's
13:12
the guy that would scream bloody murder if if
13:14
there was a call wrong where's the guy that's
13:16
angry and fiery maybe the games passed him by
13:20
maybe the CEO coaches no longer which we lauded
13:23
the charges for hiring you know three years ago
13:25
maybe the Ben Johnson era that Sean McVay the
13:28
total control that you know energize a bunny
13:31
sort of the guy that can remember every single
13:33
snap and every single blade of grass that they
13:35
play on and how long it was. How about maybe
13:41
smoking the grass? Who knows? But, um, yeah,
13:43
I just, I really, I really wonder what's going
13:46
on in, in that, in the whole sort of coaching
13:48
head office. And let's be clear. It doesn't have
13:52
to be anger. I want to see passion. No accountability.
13:56
Yeah. I want to see something that tells me he's
14:00
he's annoyed or and cares and is motivated and
14:03
it doesn't really come through in what he's saying
14:06
after the game. I couldn't believe it. This is
14:08
the first time a Jim Harbaugh led team has been
14:11
owned to in his life that that's college. and
14:15
the NFL. So he's in a completely foreign place.
14:18
So maybe he doesn't really know how to react.
14:20
And we did say at the start of the hire that
14:23
the cutesy sayings and aphorisms, they're well
14:28
and good within teams winning. Let's see how
14:30
he handles it when he's suddenly the Bunsen burn
14:33
is blowing underneath him. And we will still
14:37
find out it is still only two games, two very,
14:40
very rough losses to start the season. I don't
14:43
know. Let us know what you think in the comments
14:44
guys. Are you still like his hub or the guy,
14:47
or are we starting to see this going the wrong
14:50
way? And let's be honest. Mike McDaniel doesn't
14:53
look like he's going anywhere at the end of this
14:55
year. So we're going to get a little bit more
14:56
Mike McDaniel. He's going to be, uh, he might
14:59
have been offensive coordinator. Uh, Alistair
15:01
let's talk about one positive, I think from the
15:03
offense and, and I think I'm Marian Hampton.
15:06
is, is doing his bit, uh, the, the way that he
15:09
ran, he was 23 for 94 and a touchdown. Um, Los
15:13
Angeles, the run game in and of itself was 127
15:16
at four yards per carry, which is, you know,
15:18
I think we outrushed the Raiders by 70 yards.
15:21
So on the, on the, on the ground, we looked all
15:24
right, but I mean, the issue is, is that Hampton
15:27
generated 71 yards after contact. So Of the,
15:34
of the 94 yards he's had 71 of them, he's been
15:38
hit and he's had to fight his way through. So
15:40
five missed tackles. Um, there you go. I've got
15:43
the number in front of me, 76 of his total after
15:46
contact. So man, uh, he's, he's doing his job
15:50
because I don't, if we didn't have a Marion Hampton,
15:53
I don't know what the offense would look like.
15:58
Yeah. And the ball to him as a receiver a couple
16:01
of times as well, which was a nice little wrinkle,
16:04
but hey, but also the second game in a row for
16:06
a fumble. So we'll pump him up, but the first
16:09
last week was unlucky. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This
16:12
one was. I don't know you just wonder what it
16:14
does to his confidence and I hope that he doesn't
16:16
run harder because if he runs harder chances
16:19
are he's gonna get injured that's that that's
16:20
what you try harder that's what happens but I
16:24
don't know I'd like I think he's doing his job
16:27
at least the fumble two weeks in a row that can't
16:30
happen again he can't have another fumble this
16:32
year. Let's talk about not putting pressure on
16:34
people, but there we go. No, and I do like the
16:37
Mike McDaniel from week one to week two. I think
16:40
recognize that look, Hampton's real strengths
16:43
are he can lower your shoulder. He's patient
16:47
and follows his blockers and he's an absolute
16:49
load to take down. And I thought in this game,
16:53
McDaniel mixed up his run calls a bit more. They
16:55
ran some counter in the, in the third quarter.
16:58
They ran some more gap scheme runs or at least
17:00
inside zone in the middle. I think that suits
17:03
him a little more than the stretch outside zone
17:06
running. It doesn't mean he can't do it, but
17:08
I like that they at least mix that up. Cause
17:10
I think, I think McDaniel's just realized every
17:13
time we try run outside zone or stretch someone's
17:16
missing a key block and it's going for negative
17:19
yardage. So let's go up the middle and get four
17:22
or five because it's too much of a feast or famine
17:25
outside or worse still there's a holding penalty
17:27
and we're backed up another 10 yards. But that
17:30
was at least. The first piece of real evidence
17:33
I've seen of McDaniel doing some problem solving
17:35
on the spot from week one to week two, which
17:37
I guess is a promising sign. Do you think that
17:41
Mike McDaniel is just, uh, Mike McDaniel is a
17:43
little bit out of touch with being an OC. It's
17:46
quite different when you're calling players in
17:48
your head coach. You've got a lot on your mind.
17:50
Maybe is, could we argue that perhaps teams kind
17:54
of have a really good read on him as, as a play
17:57
caller? Because it seems both these teams, the
17:59
Cardinals and the Raiders. kind of knew most
18:02
of the time exactly what was going on. You know,
18:05
the, the, the run fits, especially from the Cardinals
18:08
last week, I thought were exceptional and, and
18:11
it's good that we've seen a bit of a change in
18:13
terms of, you know, running some more inside
18:14
zone and maybe some counter, but how, how high
18:20
are you on Mike McDaniel at the moment? You've,
18:22
you've seen the guy like Herbert's missing things.
18:25
The receivers aren't good. But what was my word
18:28
at the end? What was the one word that we're
18:29
hoping, whatever the thing was, and mine said
18:31
it was a McDaniel. Like a lot is resting on this
18:34
guy. Cause I look at these past catches, you
18:36
know, Trey Harris had 53 yards, McConkey looked
18:39
fine, but he clearly is not healthy. Cola is
18:42
now out. He's gone. He's who knows when he's
18:45
going to be back. Uh, David and Joku, man, that
18:48
could be pretty serious. We just don't sort of
18:50
know how long that's going to be. QJ can't catch.
18:53
uh, a cold and now we've got Gadsden. So the,
18:57
and we've got Darius Davis who still sees the
18:59
field and whenever we throw it his way, it's
19:01
interception and Brennan Thompson is mighty mouse
19:06
who can get open. But when the ball comes his
19:08
way, it just bounces off his chest. So is there
19:12
only so much like, I can't believe I'm sitting
19:15
here going, geez, Greg Roman looks good right
19:18
about now. Seriously. I don't want to go there,
19:22
but I think it's two opposite things now, right?
19:27
So first, the penalties and sloppiness. I agree
19:30
with what you were saying last week in your beautiful
19:33
argumentation. That is on the OC. Stop calling
19:36
motion on 80 % of the players if we're going
19:38
to have six, seven penalties a game on offense.
19:40
Plain and simple. Do less of it. I know you want
19:43
to do it, but it's not working and these are
19:44
real games in the regular season and the losses
19:46
count. So dumb it down a little bit. I hope we
19:49
see that starting from week three immediately.
19:53
Yep. Unfortunately, the injury carnage is now
19:56
a real thing. And most of it seems to be on the
19:59
offensive side of the ball. Let's, let's count
20:01
them. It's Beardish ACL, Nijoku fibula, minimum
20:05
of four weeks out. Cola forearm, minimum of four
20:08
weeks out. Pipkins in and out with a knee. Awaseeker,
20:11
also his fibula. He's going to miss weeks. We
20:14
don't know probably less than four. And McConkey's
20:17
playing with a cracked rib. So Does that that
20:21
will limit your offensive coordinator so I'm
20:24
I'm not I'm somewhat of the last check for for
20:27
what the team is going to do. How does McDaniel
20:33
run heavy personnel when the only tight end that
20:35
he's got on the roster is essentially kind of
20:38
like a stretch tight end to, and he's in his
20:41
second year and he's six, six, but an absolute,
20:44
like he's no, to Charlie Collar's credit, he
20:47
was pretty rough on the team. Like he showed
20:49
some passion in that press conference and we
20:51
pointed that out. He was eating guys for breakfast.
20:53
He was fired up. He played really well. And he's
20:58
gone. And in Joku, yeah, gosh. But what are we
21:02
going to do with QJ, man? Like you posted that
21:04
the fact we're paying him 18 million, his yards
21:07
per route run, guess how many yards per route
21:10
run he was against the Raiders? Uh, yeah, 0 .25.
21:17
Close 0 .3. So everyone else at least was over
21:22
one, but the guy that we're paying $18 million
21:25
to. Next year. And charged with, sorry, next
21:29
year and charged with one drop. So yeah. And
21:33
when he looks to catch the ball, he's, I don't
21:35
know whether he slipped over, but he just couldn't
21:37
do it. I don't know what we're going to do against
21:40
the Bills offensively, just handed to Hampton
21:42
fricking 45 times and just hope for the best.
21:45
Jack, all is not lost today. The charges signed
21:47
blocking tight end Hayden Arucci from the Jags
21:50
practice squad who spent time with McDaniel at
21:52
the Dolphins. So you need some tight ends to
21:54
play a football game. So at the moment, welcome
21:56
to the charges. Is he, is he cold strangers,
21:59
mate? Good. Cause we love picking up those dolphins
22:01
guys. They know exactly what to do. We did actually
22:03
have platoon too. I should now, now mention it.
22:06
Um, this time it was at the right guard spot,
22:08
not the left guard. We had strange and Penning
22:10
swapping in until our seeker got injured and
22:12
then Penning was the left guard. So it's musical
22:15
chairs of crap. Uh, can I throw a question to
22:18
you, my friend? Sure, mate. Sure. Clearly we
22:21
need a wide receiver, right? There's a wide receiver
22:24
out there playing very poorly for a team we faced
22:26
last week. Would you consider trading for Marvin
22:31
Harrison, Jr. The fourth overall pick in the
22:34
2024 draft. Oh, okay. So he's not even reclamation
22:38
project worthy. No, no, like we needed, if you're
22:42
going to trade for someone to come in and have
22:44
an impact, the amount of pressure that would
22:46
be on Harrison would be immense. Uh, but what
22:49
are you trying to do? He needs to learn the offense,
22:52
but, but what are you trying to do? Right? So
22:53
are you trying to win this year? Because if you're
22:55
trying to win this year, you've got however much
22:58
cap space, Hortys will never do it, but you go
23:01
out and get a wide receiver. You have to maybe
23:03
spend maybe even your first and second round
23:05
pick to try and find something. But it doesn't
23:08
make sense. That's why I reckon Hortys might
23:09
do it, man. He's got 30 million in cap space.
23:11
Marv Harrison Jr has only cost $4 million for
23:14
the rest of this year and 5 .5 million next year.
23:17
Yeah, but he could just be another QJ. Like he's
23:20
playing like another QJ. He's just another, so,
23:23
uh, that to me seems, that seems far too risky
23:27
personally. That's why you've got Jim Harbour.
23:29
I'm not saying we should, but you've got Jim
23:31
Harbour as your coach. His, his essence is supposed
23:34
to be the man manager and player motivator. This
23:37
is a guy he faced all the time, Michigan versus
23:39
Ohio State. He's seen firsthand how good this
23:42
guy can be. and he's had a terrible start to
23:45
his NFL career. I mean, if they did that, that
23:47
would be a great opportunity for Jim Harbaugh.
23:49
But I'm just throwing some names out there, looking
23:51
for trade options in week two is not where you
23:55
want to be. Um, Hey, shout out Ray Sean Slater.
23:58
He looks like he's, um, relatively healthy. I
24:01
think he had, I think his grade was almost in
24:04
the nineties for PFF. Um, yeah. Touch wood, touch
24:07
everything. Everybody, everybody touch everything
24:09
that he's going to be okay. And we feel he's
24:12
done his pretend. Um, but like no pressures.
24:15
Talk to me about alt. Was he just seeing ghosts
24:18
again? What was, what was going on there? Uh,
24:21
what does he add for penalties? Yeah. His play
24:25
snap -to -snap was pretty good, but his grade
24:28
is so bad because they ding him for those penalties.
24:31
I mean, the false starts hurt, those hurt more,
24:36
three false starts, and then the holding penalty
24:38
for the safety when the game is probably over
24:41
and lost. But clearly that is being hyper conscious
24:44
of Max Crosby. And when you see what qualifies
24:46
as a false start in the NFL, man, you just have
24:49
to move half a knee. And they're like, it's unbelievable.
24:53
He also had penalties last week and he was giving
24:56
a speech to the team, apparently about how everyone's
24:58
got to be better at the end of last week's game.
25:00
So fingers pointing back at yourself, Joe. Yeah.
25:04
I mean, I think he's going to be fine. I didn't
25:07
think the Raiders actually won through Crosby.
25:09
I mean, not on his play, but the charges obviously,
25:13
you know, sent a lot of, uh, sent a lot of, um,
25:18
what's the word I'm, what's the word I'm looking
25:19
for? I've lost it. Resources at him. But I thought
25:22
Coontz and, and the Kobe Dean had a heck of a
25:25
game as well, man. What an angry guy and, um,
25:28
their, their defensive backs. I, I still think
25:33
the Raiders are possibly a bottom 10 team, but
25:38
we made them look very good. Did you want to
25:40
keep going on anything offense or where do you
25:42
want to go next? Well, what I want to say is
25:44
there are some numbers floating out there about
25:46
Herbert being under pressure 40 % of the time
25:48
and all we've still got issues. No, no, no, no,
25:51
no. Half of these are on Justin Herbert or, or
25:54
the receivers not getting open. I don't want
25:56
to blame the offensive line as much as the last
25:59
two years under Greg Roman. Jake Slaughter is
26:01
playing well. for a second. That's another shining
26:04
light. Yeah. For a rookie. Both tackles are playing
26:06
well. Our seeker had a down game and strange
26:09
hasn't been good, but we are not seeing Herbert
26:11
unable to operate and being overwhelmed by pressure
26:15
so far. He needs to take some ownership for that
26:18
stat. Not all stats are created equal. Okay.
26:21
Let's switch over onto the defense, Jack. I'll
26:23
let you choose where you want to start this time.
26:26
Well, let's, let's just start with the defensive
26:28
front. I thought, um, They essentially nullified
26:33
one of the Raiders, uh, if not the Raiders best
26:36
offensive weapon and Ashton Jeanty, I thought
26:39
they, um, that they did a great job. And, you
26:42
know, we were the ones in our preview show to
26:44
say that, you know, I, I thought, I think this,
26:46
this defensive line group, especially the interior
26:49
were one of the deepest and they're probably,
26:51
um, you know, championship ready. They're playing
26:54
really well. Time and again, I feel like I see
26:57
tart or Tomlinson speak of another injury that's
27:00
going to hurt is out a boig be. You know, some
27:04
of these guys actually get penetration. They're
27:06
missing the tackle, whether it's a sack or whether
27:08
it's, you know, getting a T a tackle for loss,
27:11
but I, I'm seeing it over and over. Same with
27:13
Jamari Caldwell as well. They just, they're getting
27:16
there. They're playing with a bit of nastiness.
27:18
And I think that's what Tia Tartt brings to that
27:20
group. He's a really nasty, hard player. Um,
27:24
Tomlinson I think is going to be missed because
27:25
he is so stout and just eat space. And I think
27:29
he's. His edition was something that maybe we
27:33
were missing a little bit. So that's going to,
27:36
yeah, that's going to be rough when we go against
27:38
James Cook. But I thought, I thought the edges
27:40
had a better day. Mezador in particular, four
27:43
pressures and credited with two sacks. Um, he's
27:46
that crazy guy, you know, running around with
27:49
his head ripped off. Tully looked okay. Mack
27:52
looked better. Um, yeah, I thought the front.
27:55
sort of the edge and, and the defensive line
27:57
played really well. Then they gave up two yards
27:59
per rush, um, and hit cousins, uh, around 10
28:03
times. So. Carrots, carrots. What do you call
28:07
them? Cake goes to the defensive front. Carrots,
28:09
cake. I don't know. Either works. They're eighth
28:13
in EPA per rush so far. So some credit to Chris
28:17
O 'Leary. And I thought they did it this week
28:18
without necessarily over committing bodies to
28:21
the box either. I actually just thought the front
28:23
seven played really well. Absolutely. Del Sean
28:26
Phillips and Dayon Henley played well, Tony Jefferson
28:29
on the goal line, Nick Barrett on the fourth
28:32
down stop. So I'm going to give some credit to
28:34
Chris O 'Leary. We will speak about some of the
28:36
issues, but overall, what I liked from Chris
28:39
O 'Leary is he really dialed down the blitz rate
28:42
in this game. And when we did send a pressure,
28:46
it was more often five defenders rather than
28:48
six or seven. Now listeners, I'm just going to.
28:51
Like go into some technical mode here for a second
28:53
because a lot of people chart pressure differently
28:56
and I don't know the answer to what is a blitz
28:59
different different people have different terminology.
29:01
I'd always thought a blitz is anytime you send
29:04
more than four rushes. So five, but then if you
29:08
have five all on the line, like a three, four
29:11
defense, you've got three tackles and two edges
29:13
and those five come. Some places decide that's
29:17
not a blitz because that's what you expected
29:19
as a quarterback and for it to be a blitz there
29:22
needs to be a Russia from the second level like
29:24
a linebacker or a nickel or a corner so just
29:26
be mindful when you look at blitz stats it's
29:28
hard. To always know what they're talking about
29:31
but anyway from my vantage point watching the
29:33
film Chris O 'Leary needs to get out of this
29:36
habit of. Sending fire zone pressures where you've
29:39
got three deep three over and five up front on
29:43
third and long because Kubiak was ready for it
29:46
and as soon as they did it he had these routes
29:49
motions pushing the flat defenders and you that's
29:52
why you're seeing so much space open in the middle
29:54
of the field jack because You've got one guy
29:56
like Genesis Smith who's a bit flat -footed trying
29:59
to cover all of this grass So that's one thing
30:01
that I think O 'Leary needs to fix up but overall
30:04
coverage was a bit tighter Run defense was really
30:07
good. And all of those things you said, Jack,
30:10
the front played well in this game. Yeah. And
30:15
let's put an asterix if there are any, you know,
30:18
fans of not the Chargers, this or critical fans.
30:21
This is against Kirk Cousins. So we should be
30:27
looking okay when it's a Kirk Cousins and a Brock
30:29
Bowerless offense as well. But when we did give
30:34
up the plays they're just they just happened
30:36
to be a critical times when the offense was really
30:39
struggling the 40 yard Tucker TD that was on
30:43
Genesis Smith from what I could say from the
30:45
table see you can correct me if I'm wrong that
30:48
the 42 yard Tucker catch after that. That was
30:51
a cam heart issue from, from memory. Um, that
30:55
sets up the 59 yard field goal. That's a big
30:59
mistake at that time in the game. It's one of
31:01
those momentum shifting things. Um, and then
31:05
there was a 27 yard, um, direct, direct, direct
31:08
direct young catch when he was mismatched on
31:11
Bud Dupree. Um, and, and that drive ended in
31:14
that white touchdown. So Those three completions,
31:18
you know, with 109 yards were 43 % of cousins
31:23
gross passing total. Wow. And directly created
31:27
17 Raiders points out of three plays. So that
31:32
cannot be happening. That's Kirk cousins. We're
31:34
moving to Josh Allen next week. Yep. So as much
31:40
as we can put plaudits and give it there, you
31:43
just, that's, that's, that's not. tenable that
31:47
like that, those, we just can't be having that
31:50
Elsa. We just cannot pay. You can't do and James
31:52
called it out. The got to have it. You got to
31:56
have it. Yeah. Unfortunately. So anyway, and
31:59
for the writers fans listening out there. Yes.
32:01
I mean, the defense was bailed out by multiple
32:04
Ashton genti drops. Kirk cousins missed that
32:07
wide open throw down the right sideline. So,
32:10
so some of it was more luck than skill. They've
32:13
still scored the 26 points. So maybe I'm being
32:15
too kind. I do agree with you, Jack, just quickly
32:19
that Cam Hart is the major culprit whenever O
32:23
'Leary tries to play man coverage. Just not working.
32:26
There was one to Jack Bech. There's the one you
32:28
said to Trey Tucker also had a dumb hands to
32:30
the face penalty when we were going to get off
32:32
the field on the, I think they threw a quick
32:34
screen. Which Genesis Smith actually rallied
32:37
up and tackled really well. So, so I don't know.
32:40
I think, I think O 'Leary is going to be learning
32:43
that we've got to play a lot of quarters coverage
32:45
and a lot of cover six. Cause if he's going to
32:46
run cover two man, you're inviting a lot of trouble
32:49
with the corners that we have on our roster.
32:51
Sorry. You're going to say something. No, it
32:53
just feels like that the cam hearts now got enough
32:55
on tape and clearly the skill set is not great
32:59
in man. He's a bigger guy. So Maybe mentor was
33:03
able to hide him a little better, but I, but
33:05
I really feel like the last two weeks that he's
33:07
been picked on quite, quite badly. Justin Herbert
33:10
tried to pick on a rookie has a car masses to
33:14
interceptions. Cool. Cool. Jack, it's almost
33:18
time to get cat cam. I'm not going to say off
33:20
the field, but The starting outside corners for
33:22
me should be Donto Jackson and Tahib still, and
33:25
we should be running just a heck of a lot of
33:27
zone coverage and maybe getting Cam Hard on the
33:30
field for 15 snaps, 10 snaps a game. I think
33:33
it's time to settle in with those two. Yeah.
33:35
Yeah. He just, yeah. Yeah. Poor guy. Poor guy.
33:40
I mean, what is your fifth round pick? Yeah,
33:42
and he's had injury issues and he tries like
33:44
he had an interception I know that the receiver
33:47
slipped on him So I don't want to be too hard
33:49
on the guy but but he tends to be the one Giving
33:52
up the downfield flag or just giving up the wide
33:54
open catch or just not triggering quick enough
33:57
on a quick slant Just not not processing it quickly
34:01
enough. So But it's one thing we did pick up,
34:05
right? Is this cornerback room is not, is, is,
34:07
is a bit thin. It looked really good under Minter
34:10
because of Minters play calling in his field
34:13
for the game. The guy's doing extremely well
34:15
in Baltimore. I mean, it's only been a two game
34:17
sample size. So let's not lose our knickers over
34:20
that. But yeah, O 'Leary has got a bit of, has,
34:25
has, has got to again, make some, make some changes
34:27
when we, when we moved to Buffalo this week.
34:30
Anyone else on the defense you want to talk about?
34:32
Dermot James broke his pinky. So it looks like
34:34
he's going to be playing with a cast from memory.
34:37
That's it. And Tomlinson's officially got a hamstring.
34:40
So again, not on IR, but hamstrings are usually
34:43
more than one week. Unless you're Caleb Williams,
34:46
and then you act like it's 10 weeks, but actually
34:48
it's one. So I don't know that the more opportunities
34:53
for your Nick Barrett's and Caldwell's of the
34:54
world, but Tomlinson has been an immovable force.
34:59
So far. So that's not, not a great start, but
35:02
that was my overall defensive takeaway, Jack,
35:04
from the tape watch incremental improvement,
35:07
more pressure on cousins. End of the day, cousins
35:10
walk away. It's just those blown coverages or
35:12
big touchdowns. And some of these guys I've never
35:15
heard of Jack. That's odd for me, but white Cody
35:19
white, white one of the touchdowns. What a catch.
35:22
That first one was looking like Randy Moss. Oh,
35:25
I'm Paul Rodney Shelley for his first snap of
35:28
the regular season, I'm pretty sure. I was thinking,
35:30
why is Shelley on the fit? Oh, it's a touchdown.
35:31
Who's that? Who is that? And then, and then unacceptable.
35:36
And again, Logan Ryan being very polite in the
35:38
box. Third and five, our entire team just plays
35:42
run, assuming that they're going to run it and
35:44
take the field goal. Yeah, they dive down, don't
35:47
they? Yeah. And Kubiak goes, no thanks, we're
35:49
going to win the game. Logan Ryan was quite polite.
35:52
He's just going, what are you doing? Like you
35:54
should never do that at the end zone as, as DBs.
35:58
Yeah. Anyway. All right. Time for a question
36:01
before we hand out some awards. It's going to
36:04
be a short sharp show tonight. Angry, get in,
36:06
get out and move to week three. Yep. Uh, start
36:09
of the season, we were talking about how unlikely
36:12
it is that this season could possibly end with
36:15
Harbour and or Hortiz off the hot seat, uh, on
36:20
the hot seat. Sorry. Can I get a temperature
36:22
check on that after week two? Is this now within
36:24
the realm of possibility? I still think that
36:28
with the owners that we have and you can still
36:30
play the injury card as well. Uh, and now we
36:35
go on the, the hardest run in the NFL. So I think
36:38
there's, there's going to be, there's going to
36:40
be that if things don't change mentally and the
36:45
way that Justin Herbert looks and the way that
36:48
guys present to the media and it's very, down
36:51
and dour, then we, like if the team decides to
36:56
mutiny, like they did against Staley, who knows
36:59
what can happen? Cause that was, that was pretty
37:01
bad for memory. What's the rate has put up? What
37:04
70 points on a 60 points on us. So listen, I
37:08
think he's still fairly safe. Both of them are
37:10
Hortese is making out semi -competitive team.
37:13
He's made the playoffs the last two years without
37:15
spending a lot of money. Uh, they're in surplus.
37:18
So I think our ownership would be fairly happy
37:21
with things, uh, where the things are at financially.
37:24
We're kind of okay. We're not terrible, but even
37:27
if we were terrible, you know, would they make
37:30
giant changes? I'm not sure. What do you think
37:32
Al? I think they're prideful people and we're
37:37
this to continue. I know we've got this gauntlet
37:39
run coming up. Let's say teams one and eight.
37:43
And then things don't get better because there
37:45
does come an easier part to the schedule, right?
37:48
And everyone can be, you know, they get the pitchforks
37:51
out, they're really upset. A lot of bad teams
37:53
find their way into a few wins towards the end
37:55
of the season. So then at the end of the day,
37:57
you look down and oh, that was seven and 10.
37:59
I don't think that necessarily gets hardball
38:01
fired. I think it would take just, yeah, something
38:05
cataclysmic. It would be just more, more of what
38:07
we've seen in week one and week two every single
38:10
week from this offense. And do you think that
38:13
Justin Herbert plays into this at all the way
38:15
that he acts and the absolute. Shit that he's
38:19
getting given in the media like it's so polarizing
38:23
like oh he's actually pretty good no he's actually
38:25
terrible like that can't help the psyche of our
38:29
quarterback. Before we actually move on to your
38:32
snakes and ladders Alistair I have a couple of
38:35
narratives that I want you to say that you agree
38:38
with or disagree. And perhaps why, so really
38:41
quick fire stuff. The narrative from the game,
38:44
the Raiders dominated. What's your verdict? They
38:47
did not dominate the game. The stats are very
38:50
similar across the board. Really it was penalties
38:52
and a couple of extra turnovers. We had a chance
38:56
to win the game with four minutes left. We've
38:58
got the ball, we're down by less than a score.
39:00
Hampton fumbles it. Three minutes, 50 seconds
39:02
left. This was a tight game, despite how badly
39:05
we played. Okay, on that, Hampton's fumble erases
39:09
his good game. No, because I'm a bit sympathetic
39:14
to fumbles being more luck than anything else.
39:17
I didn't think he was carrying it the wrong way.
39:19
Sometimes an aggressive linebacker just gets
39:22
in there and wedges the ball out. Don't do it
39:25
again though. Herbert was simply inaccurate.
39:31
Herbert was simply inaccurate. I mean, Herbert
39:34
wasn't throwing it. I'm more worried about why,
39:39
why is Herbert turning? I don't want to see more
39:42
turn -downs. He's an accurate thrower. He's fine.
39:44
I'm worried why he's not hitting the read as
39:47
it's drawn up. Well, when it's an accurate throw,
39:51
someone fumbles and it becomes a deception. That's
39:55
why it's not throwing it. Uh, last one, the charges
39:58
cannot finish drives. Yes or no. Too early to
40:06
say some of the red zone possessions have actually
40:09
worked. A lot of the failed drives. I mean, sorry,
40:16
I'm speaking shit. They're not finishing drives.
40:19
They've scored 28 points in two weeks. The problem
40:21
is it's mainly penalties at the moment and third
40:24
down failures due to penalties. Clean that up
40:26
and I think we'll convert a lot better. Yeah,
40:29
that's a little bit misleading that statement
40:31
I did deliberately because funnily enough the
40:33
Chargers were 100 % in their red zone visits.
40:36
They scored on both. So when they get there,
40:40
we score. They just can't get there. Awful. This
40:43
is not what we signed up to, Jack. Mike McDaniel,
40:46
Chargers offense is 30th in EPA per play, 31st
40:50
in EPA per rush. All right. Let's put a line
40:55
under it. This is our line in the sand moment.
40:57
Bury it, throw out the tape, blah, blah, blah.
41:00
Every other trite saying you hear from football
41:03
coaches. I'm going to give out two awards. Jack
41:06
foreshadowed this. This is our snakes and ladders
41:08
segment. I always get this wrong, but tonight
41:11
I'll get it right. When you're up the ladder,
41:13
you've played really well. When you're down the
41:15
snake, you're in the lair and you're in some
41:18
trouble. I'm going to go, we are going to go
41:20
with the snake first, Jack. I started pretty
41:24
high up the board on the signing of Alec Ingold
41:27
because he was a scheme familiar. He speaks very
41:32
eloquently. You said you love that press conference
41:34
of his initials. Thoughtful guy. Looks like he
41:38
cares a lot. I like that McDaniel's really lent
41:41
into this dash motion idea that's hot around
41:44
the league. And that's where your fullback will
41:46
start, say, on the wing. even facing in pre -snap
41:50
your motion into the backfield a bit but try
41:53
to curve so he slightly cheats and just as the
41:57
ball snaps he's already turning upfield because
42:00
if you're moving upfield it's actually in illegal
42:02
motion but it's just trying to cheat and slightly
42:06
turning your hips and getting upfield as the
42:07
ball snapped problem is That's that looks cool,
42:11
but he's just missing the block more often than
42:13
not. You mentioned Hezekiah Massas. He's just
42:16
allowed him to run clean straight past him and
42:18
blow up the running back tackle for loss. So
42:21
for the guy who's meant to know the scheme really,
42:24
really well, the run game isn't working and it's
42:26
because McDaniel's running ludicrous amounts
42:28
of 21 personnel. He always wants the fullback
42:30
on the field and the fullback is not playing
42:32
well. Alec Ingold, be better. The latter. I'm
42:38
going to do it, Jack. And look, it could be Chargers
42:40
fans climbing up the stairway to heaven because
42:42
our season's dead, but I'm going to give it to
42:45
a person you've already mentioned. Rashawn Slater.
42:49
Oh, I almost don't know if I want to do this.
42:52
I don't know. Oh no, putting the mockers on him.
42:55
Yeah. All I've banged on about for years now
42:58
is the dreaded patellar tendon injury and that
43:00
there's no example of someone returning and playing
43:02
well. Well through two weeks. He is PFF's fourth
43:07
ranked defensive tackle in the NFL out of 62.
43:10
He's conceded only three pressures off 73 pass
43:13
blocking reps. He's been equally good in the
43:16
run and the pass. I've counted like two snaps
43:18
on tape where I think he's had a loss. He's been
43:21
solid as a rock. Herbert does not have an excuse
43:24
for the blind side because Rashawn Slater's back
43:26
and he's playing at a much higher level than
43:28
I was expecting early in the season. Well done
43:31
Rashawn Slater. And now to end our show tonight.
43:34
for the second time and do we have the theme
43:35
song this week jack i can't remember if you've
43:38
got the little audio bite i'll buy you a bit
43:40
of time let's look at let's the listeners jack
43:43
don't speak while you're looking for it jack
43:45
for the list first time listeners jack is a teacher
43:47
and this is his quintessential segment the teachable
43:52
moment teach teach all right look here's the
43:57
deal i've got a hangover I've got a big hangover
44:03
this week. Big hangover from the terrible loss.
44:05
Alistair, I have, as I aforementioned in the
44:08
show, a little bit of sports psychology for you
44:10
because I think there is something extremely
44:13
fascinating happening on the field or dreadful.
44:17
Potato, potato. There's an old poem about a centipede
44:20
that could walk perfectly well until a toad asked
44:24
it which leg moved first. The centipede started
44:29
thinking about how to walk and suddenly couldn't
44:31
do it. In sports psychology, there's a related
44:34
concept called the reinvestment theory. Essentially,
44:38
when you consciously think about a skill you've
44:40
performed thousands of thousands of times, you
44:43
can actually interfere with your ability to execute
44:46
it. This is where the charges may find themselves.
44:50
We've got McDaniel introducing this new ritzy
44:53
offensive system. players are learning new formations,
44:58
motions. What'd you call that thing? Ingol did
45:00
Zig block or Zig motion, whatever, bashing assignments,
45:03
timing dash. There we go. But what are we actually
45:06
saying? We're seeing false starts. We're seeing
45:08
fumbles, missed assignments and little execution
45:10
errors all over the field. Here's my question.
45:15
Are the charges maybe thinking too much? Are
45:18
the players so occupied with processing the new
45:20
system that they're losing the ability to execute
45:23
the basic skills they've spent their entire careers
45:26
mastering? And here's a really interesting part.
45:30
After two losses, the natural response, and this
45:32
is what Harbaugh said, is to tell everyone to
45:35
concentrate harder, focus on the details and
45:37
stop making mistakes. But sports psychology would
45:40
probably suggest that consciously controlling
45:43
an automatic skill can sometimes make the performance.
45:47
worse. So perhaps the answer isn't simply to
45:51
tell the charges and the players to think harder
45:53
and do harder and try harder and play harder
45:55
and catch better. Perhaps McDaniel needs to perhaps
45:59
simplify things that his players, you know, so
46:01
his players can stop thinking about football
46:03
and start playing about playing football, should
46:06
I say, because right now the charges look a little
46:10
bit like that centipede. If it's the human centipede
46:13
or not, it's pretty horrible. So perhaps that's
46:16
a good analogy. They've all got legs. They just
46:19
can't seem to work out which one moves first.
46:24
And that is this week's teachable moment. There
46:29
we go. I like where your head's at, Jack. It
46:32
is time to simplify, get around each other. Don't
46:36
put the pressure on yourselves. Marijuana is
46:39
legal in California. Go out and relax. Big game
46:44
coming up and we're going to cover it on Thunder
46:46
Down Under very soon in our new format a little
46:48
later in the week. Jack, it has been lovely talking
46:52
to you about this awful loss. Listeners, we'll
46:55
have Andy back for next week's show and the Bills
46:59
recap. But until next time, we've been the Thunder
47:02
Down Under and we'll see you soon. Bye. See you
47:05
later, guys.